Latest / UNMASKED with Wesley Farnsworth / EP 72 - Christian Codependency Recovery: A Pastor's Story of Freedom | Steve Rotermond

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EP 72 - Christian Codependency Recovery: A Pastor's Story of Freedom | Steve Rotermond · UNMASKED with Wesley Farnsworth

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What happens when you're standing in the pulpit but
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silently falling apart at home? What happens when you're serving
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God publicly but privately questioning whether He's
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forgotten you? Today's conversation is for
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anyone who has ever carried secret shame, wrestled with
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codependency, or felt like faith worked for everyone else but
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them. Welcome to Unmasked, where we
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take off the filters and get real about faith, failure, and
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finding freedom. I'm your host, Wesley
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Farnsworth, a dad, veteran, author, and a man who's learned
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that God does his best work in the middle of our mess.
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Each episode we have honest conversations with people who
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have walked through addiction, pain or doubt, and with pastors,
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leaders, and everyday believers who are learning to live and
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lead authentically. So take a breath, pull up a
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chair, and let's get real. This is Unmasked.
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Today on Unmasked, I'm joined by Steve Rodermond, a father of
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seven, speaker, ministry leader, and founder of Walk Right
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Ministries. Steve's journey into faith began
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at 21 and quickly led him in the ministry.
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But while he was serving in churches and leaving others, he
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was probably carrying the crushing weight of his wife.
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Addiction to pain medication, shame, confusion, codependency,
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and a growing sense of spiritual abandonment eventually led him
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to step away from ministry and from God.
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It wasn't until a Christian counselor helped him uncover the
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depths of his codependency and a distorted view of identity that
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truly began the healing. Now, 12 years later, Steve is
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back, not with polished answers, but with a story of surrender,
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identity in Christ, and the kind of healing that only comes from
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hidden wounds when they're finally brought into the light.
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Steve, thanks so much for being with us today on Unmasked and
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trusting us with your story. Yeah, Wesley, thank you for
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having me. It's an honor to be here.
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Thank you for your service in the military and just what
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you're doing here on your podcast.
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Absolutely, man. It's when you first messaged me,
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we had some good conversation back and forth about your story
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and I'm really excited for you to share it with the unmasked
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communities. Without further ado, I'm just
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going to go ahead and turn the the mic or floor over to you and
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I can't wait to hear the your story in a lot more depth than
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our back and forth. Yeah, no, Great.
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I'd be honored too. And we, the story is not better
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than anybody else's. It's not worse than anybody
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else's. It's just my story and it's just
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how I lived life. But it started at a young age.
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Trauma came in because of the fall of Adam, right?
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We're all less than, we feel less than, we're not good
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enough. But then at the age of 4, when
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you have a mother that abandoned you and takes off and that you
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don't see until you're 18 years old, set some trauma in you.
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I had a alcoholic father who loved me the way he could.
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He was an alcoholic off and on. But a father that would tell you
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that you're not good enough, you're not going to amount to
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anything. You know, when a going gets
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tough, Steve gets going and just all these things and the
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crushing words a child should never hear.
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And it was like, why can't you be like your brother?
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And that just set the tone for even more doubt.
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At the age of 6, I was sexually molested in a construction
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trailer by a neighbor that went on for a season.
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And he said, if you tell anybody, we're going to be in
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trouble. Well, knowing how I got in
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trouble with my dad, I didn't like it.
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So I held that secret for 40 something years until I was in
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counseling and moving on from that.
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I ended up growing up with that less than feeling, found the
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love of my life at that time, got married three years into our
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marriage, found out that she was addicted to pain medication from
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her trauma and battled that for the next 13 years.
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And while that was going on, at the age of 21, I came to know
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the Lord and like most people wanted to a church.
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I went forward, I got the ticket to go to heaven, put it in my
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back pocket and, you know, really wanted to live for the
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Lord and really wanted to work this out.
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I got involved in Promise Keepers back in the late, mid to
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late 90s Promise Keepers was really big.
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If people remember that it was a men's ministry, make men better
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leaders, fathers, husbands, just all out better men.
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And I'd come home and I'm, I'm like, man, I feel I'm going to
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talk to men like this someday. I'm just going to be powerful
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like this and just just work for the Lord.
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And I was just so excited and felt called and stumbled through
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life a little bit more and battling the addiction.
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And then we ended up coming to a head.
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My wife and I came to a head with this addiction and she
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finally went into an outpatient treatment center.
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She got out and we had a chance to move to another state.
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We were lived in St. Louis, MO, had a chance to move
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to Columbus, OH, so we moved there.
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There's nothing like running from your problems, right?
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But in the back of my head, I'm thinking, hey, she won't be
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around these doctors because you could doctor shop back then.
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You can go to 5-6 doctors and they weren't all connected like
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they are now and just get all these prescriptions.
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And I thought, man, this is a great way.
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We'll just run and, you know, not thinking that consciously,
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but it was in the back of my mind.
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It will just run from our problems.
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So we moved to Columbus, OH, and our two boys at the time would
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play with some neighbor kids and their parents came down one day
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and said, hey, it's nice to meet you.
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Would you like to go to our church?
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And we're like, you know what? We haven't been to church in a
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while because we're going through this addiction and just
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walked away. And we're like, yeah, we'd like
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to get back in there. So we end up going to this
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church again. It's like nobody was in the
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room, the pastor was speaking just directly to me.
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So I end up getting involved and this is a great story.
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This is a pastor who can go to a new beginners meeting, meet all
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new people that are new members of the church, 30 people and
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pick out each one of their names and call them by name by the end
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of the meeting. But I was in sound and would
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give him his mic every Sunday. The 2nd Sunday he's like, I'm
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sorry, what's your name again? I said it's Steve.
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You know, he gave him his mic. Well, the weekend after that
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came up again. He's like, Oh my gosh, he's
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like, I never do this, but what's your name?
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And I said Steve, so give him the mic.
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And on the third weekend, the third weekend he comes up and
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he's like, I am so sorry. I just cannot remember your
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name. I can remember everybody's name.
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I'm like, I know I've watched you in this, you know, these
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classes. And he says I need to take you
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to lunch. I owe you lunch.
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I'm so sorry. And I'm like, OK, so I end up
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going to lunch with him and I told him that I felt called into
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the ministry and I kind of been avoiding it.
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And he took me under his wing and I just skyrocketed from
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there. I did a stint from Liberty, did
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a Grace seminary and ended up being a children's pastor.
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This was a large church. I had 150 kids.
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So I ended up being a pastor there, got involved in men's
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ministry, became a director of Celebrate Recovery, and I went
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through the training to become a commander of Awana.
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And I was just doing all kinds of stuff and eventually got
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called out to plan a church, planted a church and had a radio
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ministry. Life's going great, right?
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Well, behind the scenes, what you didn't know that my wife was
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back on pain medication and it just what happens right after we
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went to that church for the first time, About three months
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after that, I had appendicitis and ended up having an emergency
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surgery, got out, was healing, go to the doctor's office for a
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checkup. And he's like, hey, do you need
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any more pain medication? And I'm like, no, I never took
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the ones you give me because I don't like that stuff.
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He's like, he's like, your wife called and said you threw, you
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accidentally threw the bottle away with some trash and she had
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to pick you up a new script. Talk about shame hitting me.
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Talk about embarrassment. And I was like, wow.
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And I said, oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
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You know. And I got quickly got out of
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that doctor's office. He came home and the fight was
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on. It was a, you know, fighting.
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This time it was. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
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Let's pray through it. Let's get through it, OK.
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And it just wouldn't go away. She just continued.
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And I was battling her. She was battling me.
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We were fighting through this. All while I'm being a pastor and
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wondering why God wasn't going to fix her.
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Why don't you want to fix her? Why don't you want to set this
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straight? I'm working for you now.
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I'm directly working for you. I know the boss.
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You can do this. You know, I've got shortcuts.
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Let's fix this. And she just wouldn't get fixed.
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And it was just becoming so shameful.
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And I was loving on all these other people and selling Jesus
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and helping them and doing all this great things.
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And I was just becoming more angry with God.
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And why aren't you fixing this? Why aren't you changing things?
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You know, this is it ended up getting into my mind that this
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is just all of this is just all fake.
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This is just nothing. And I got to a point where it
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was so embarrassing watching my wife pass out on the front row
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of the church while I'm preaching on a Sunday.
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She's not off that I just walked away.
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I just quit. I gave the church in the
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building over to a River of Life church.
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They came in. I only had like 36 people in the
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church, but I just told everybody that I just had to
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take a break and handed it over and I walked away.
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We moved out of the community. I was so shameful, moved to a
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smaller town and the battle was on.
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I walked away from the church. I walked away from the ministry.
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I walked away from God and I said, fine, you don't want to
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help me, I'll fix this on my own.
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And that was for two years. And it was hell.
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I truly believe that was hell. And it was just me fighting an
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addict. You're not going to take
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medicine. Yes, I am.
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No, you're not. I cut off all the credit cards.
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She'd find money, I'd take her off the insurances, she'd get
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state funding. I mean, it was just one
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whirlwind of a fight after another.
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And a good Christian friend of mine that stayed with me through
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all the this said, you really need to go see this counselor.
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I don't need a counselor. My wife does, but I don't need a
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counselor. He's like, no, I think it'd be
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good for you to go. And so he took me and I went to
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this counselor and I was in that office for 15 minutes.
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And he goes, you're part of the problem.
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What? He's like, yeah, you're
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codependent. He's like, you just don't use
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drugs. You use your emotions.
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You're destroying your family just as much as she is.
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I was livid. I would never wanted to deck
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somebody as much as I wanted to deck him.
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And I was just, I was just floored at that point.
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I was so mad and I left the office and just ended up going
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home, getting on the computer, typed in what is codependency?
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And it just hit me like a ton of bricks.
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I'm like, wow, this relationship, that relationship,
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this relationship, everything codependency.
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And I ended up going back. I did go back and I went back
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for several years and figured out what this codependency was
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and figured out who I was really, who I really am on the
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inside, who I didn't think I was on the outside at this church.
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And he said something very profound to me and he said you
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need to find your identity in Jesus Christ.
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I said, what are you talking about?
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I'm a pastor. I know this stuff.
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I sell it, you know, I can preach.
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And he's like, no, you need to find your identity.
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He's like, you need to step out of being an adoptive son and
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step into the true sonship of what you have inherited to the
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Kingdom. And I was like, what are you
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talking about? So we went down that road in
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counseling. And then it hit me.
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And that day, you know that I'm in you or I'm in the Father,
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Fathers and me, we're in you. I'm paraphrasing, of course.
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And we're living all this life together, this whole thing
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together. And I was like, Oh my gosh.
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And then you start reading about this union and you start reading
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about all this stuff that they never taught in seminary and a
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Baptist background. They never taught union.
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They never taught. You know that God knew you
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before the foundations of the earth.
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You had this wonderful relationship and and this just
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going down this road of this spirituality started to wake up
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started to wake me up and I ended up getting a strength to
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save myself separated from my my wife ended up trying to save my
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kids and just moving on with life from there.
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I I was a Christian because I went forward and got the ticket,
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but I was never transformed. I did Christianity for me and
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what could God do for me instead of stepping in the Kingdom and
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what can I do for you? And this whole time I wanted him
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to change her and never asked him to change me.
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And all he wanted to do is change me.
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And that's pretty much comes up to the point where we are,
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unfortunately, I ended up getting a divorce and she passed
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away about 3 years ago with an overdose.
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I was since remarried and we end up having seven kids now.
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So three were mine, three were hers.
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We had one together, got to make the perfect seven, right?
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I couldn't have all my friends make fun of the Brady Bunch, so
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I had to have another child to cut that off.
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But and then, but here we are today with this new ministry and
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we can talk about how we got there and everything that
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happened in between, but pretty much that's the story of in in a
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nutshell. Man, Steve, that is a deep, deep
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story with a lot of different twists and turns, if you will.
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And I love there's a couple things that you brought up that
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I just want to go back in and not necessarily ask a question
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on, but just touch base on because it's stuff that I can
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relate to personally that I haven't heard mentioned on here
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before. One of them is the ministry
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Promise Keepers. And I, I remember growing up in
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church and hearing of this ministry and seeing all these
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men go out on these, these retreats and coming back and
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just like on fire. And I remember thinking as a
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teen, I can't wait to be a part of that ministry.
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And then I reach adulthood and it's like it's gone.
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Yeah. And there's just not anything
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out there anymore for them at the same level, except for
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little one offs that local ministries are doing, local
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churches are doing. At least that's what it seems.
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So I love that you brought that up because it's something that I
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could definitely relate to and I remember very fondly thinking of
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as a ministry. Yeah, back in the mid 90s, I
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followed them all around the Midwest.
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I'd go volunteer and just, you know, Indianapolis and Memphis
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and Nashville and I've just travel on the weekends and and
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go do volunteer work there. And it was just amazing.
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Great, that's all. Great for its time, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah. And the other thing that I, I
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just, I love is that, you know, typically when we have, when I
16:19
have pastors on, right, I've had a couple pastors on now before
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you and they've always been, we've always, we've talked from
16:28
the angle of helping other people, you know, and sharing
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their testimony about how they got in the ministry and things
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like that. And I love that you're doing
16:40
that, but you're also doing it from an angle of, Hey, I'm not
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perfect because there's a lot of pastors, I feel like and a lot
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of people out there that I believe put pastors on a
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pedestal, right? They're pastors are are not
16:54
human. They're they're subhuman.
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You know, they're God's their boss.
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You know, they can't do wrong, you know, whatever.
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And pastors are human just like everybody else.
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And they have their own struggles.
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You just probably don't see them.
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And so I love that you're kind of, I'm taking that mask off and
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you're saying, hey, yeah, I was a pastor, but I'm human and I
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absolutely love that. And so when I when you think
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about that, you know, when you think about serving in ministry
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while privately carrying the weight of everything going on at
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home, what was it like to preach or lead while internally feeling
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the shame and defeat? I felt like a hypocrite, so I
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was carrying that weight. I felt like a liar.
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I was carrying that weight. But on the flip side of that,
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why was IA pastor and why did I stay so long?
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Well, I didn't know I had codependency at that time.
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I never knew really knew the word checking back on, you know,
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when we found out about codependency and going
17:57
backwards, I was doing it because I felt loved.
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I felt needed. I was important.
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I woke up and people needed me that day.
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I needed to pray for people and I needed to go help them or go
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be with their family, the hospital, and I was getting
18:13
everything that I felt I needed. So while I fed into that
18:19
emotional drug on that side, the flip side was I was just
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completely miserable and shameful and just this was this
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just was all fake. You can't even describe the
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shame that you have because you feel less than already.
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And now I'm in an important role, an important position of
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leading people to know the Lord. And I still feel like a piece of
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crap. So what, what good was it to go
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forward and get the ticket, you know, And just didn't believe
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any of it. It just, I just couldn't, I
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couldn't, I couldn't believe anything that was happening to
19:00
everybody else wasn't happening to me.
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So. I can relate, you know I can.
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When I was deep in my addiction, I was still serving in the
19:12
church. You know, I was running various
19:15
ministries and volunteering the ministries.
19:17
And on the outside, I looked like I had it all together.
19:20
And I was walking, I was, I was talking the talk.
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I was walking the walk at church.
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But at home, I was struggling on the inside.
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I was struggling the entire time.
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And so I can relate to that essentially impostor syndrome
19:33
feeling, you know, while you're at church, you're like, why am I
19:36
doing this? You know, yeah, how am I?
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How am I qualified to do this? And that's important point for
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your listeners. It's the devil doesn't care that
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we go to church. The devil doesn't care that
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you're pastor. The devil doesn't care that you
19:52
serve in children's ministry every day or work in sound or
19:54
play drums or sing songs. He doesn't care about any of
19:57
that. He just wants to make sure that
19:59
outside of that church, you're not a light and you're not love
20:02
and you're not transformed. And there's so many people stuck
20:07
in that because they just can't get over the fact that they are
20:10
truly loved. Yeah, the redeeming blood of
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Christ really does make them righteous and clean.
20:17
Absolutely, yeah. And I, I think, you know,
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especially if you're serving in the church right now, you're
20:23
living in this, this season of excuse me, or this season with
20:28
shame. And you feel like because you're
20:30
in this role, you can't go and get help because what are they
20:35
going to think of you? I can say that because I've done
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it with experience. And I'm sure Steve can agree or
20:42
would agree with this. And if you're listening today
20:45
and and you're, we're speaking to you, it's not by accident.
20:49
And I want you to know that that is exactly what the enemy, the
20:54
devil wants you to believe. He wants you to live in that
20:58
shame. He wants you to live in that
21:01
fear. Because as long as you're living
21:03
in those two things, he has a foothold in your life and you're
21:08
not, you were not going to find freedom, man.
21:15
You know, I love it when stuff like this comes out and it was
21:17
not planned. Yeah.
21:19
You know, it just, but there's just so much truth to it and
21:23
it's stuff that I don't believe people say often enough, right?
21:26
You have. I was at a church, well the
21:30
first church before I planted. I had about 1500 members I was
21:34
commander of or the director of Celebrate Recovery.
21:38
And you have 30 people and Celebrate Recovery and half of
21:42
them don't even go to your church.
21:44
They're just going for the step work.
21:47
And it's like, how bad are we not letting people get
21:51
transformed and letting them know this?
21:54
And it's just a point where you leave a church on a Sunday and
22:01
everybody goes out to lunch and you just got done singing Holy
22:05
is God and how great thou art. And you're just so awesome.
22:08
Thank you. And then you watch somebody in
22:10
your service yell at a waitress because you had to wait five
22:13
extra minutes for his pancakes. Or they're cutting people off in
22:18
traffic and flipping the bird when you're coming out of the
22:21
parking lot of a church that big.
22:22
And it's like, are you kidding me?
22:25
And I was that person. I just, I wasn't transformed.
22:30
You know, we buy the ticket. We think we're safe, but we
22:31
don't understand that heavens here now, the kingdom's here.
22:35
We're supposed to partake in this now and be transformed.
22:39
And we don't. We just come into Christianity
22:41
for what can God, what can you do for me?
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How can you get me through this life?
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And we're in such a hurry to get out of here.
22:48
That's like, that's not it at all.
22:51
Yeah, Yeah, man. You know, another thing that you
22:56
said in your testimony as you were talking there and towards
22:59
the beginning of the episode was, you know, you said you felt
23:02
like that God was helping everybody else but you.
23:05
What did you feel like or what did you do, I guess you could
23:08
say, when you had that feeling? And what did that do to your
23:13
faith in those seasons? You know, we already come into
23:18
this with a separated view. You know, we're separated from
23:21
God. We come into that view.
23:23
We don't understand what He reconciled on the cross was that
23:28
relationship and that image that He created us in.
23:31
So we come into that separate view.
23:33
On top of it, we view God as our mother or father that we had
23:36
grown up. So I've viewed God as a guy kind
23:42
of loves me, tolerates me, but Jesus sneaks me in the back door
23:46
late at night because I smell like poo.
23:48
And that's the view we have. We we have that view.
23:52
So when you're in ministry and you're watching people get
23:57
transformed, the true people that get transformed, you feel
24:01
even more shame and you feel even more or less than it's
24:03
like, OK, I guess he just wants to help other people, but not
24:07
me. And it just slowly eats at you
24:09
and the shame builds up until it's like, you just don't want
24:12
it anymore. I don't care.
24:14
I don't want you. I can do this on my own.
24:16
And that's, that's the boiling point.
24:20
It's just you just walk away. And that's where people, I think
24:22
walk away because I used to think people like me now were
24:26
weird back then. I was like, these people are
24:28
just weird. God's not that good.
24:30
He's good, but there's just no way they have this much freedom.
24:34
They're just weird. And now I'm one of those weird
24:36
people that are just like, God is so good.
24:39
And he was in every moment of my life just screaming for me, Hey,
24:45
I'm right here. But I wouldn't look at him.
24:47
I was too clouded. It was everybody else.
24:50
It was everything else going on outside of me that was the issue
24:54
when he just wanted to work on me and the inside of me.
24:58
I love that. Yeah.
25:00
You know, one of the things that you've mentioned earlier is your
25:03
journey in codependency. You know, you, you've talked
25:06
about that a few times for the listeners that are out there
25:09
that are not familiar with the term codependency, which if
25:13
you've listened to this podcast much, you probably have heard it
25:17
and heard an explanation a few times.
25:18
But if you're a first time listener and you've, you've
25:20
stumbled on this episode, essentially codependency is
25:24
caring more about what other people think about you and not
25:27
worrying or caring about what you think about yourself and
25:31
what God thinks about you. More importantly, you're
25:33
essentially a people pleaser is, is how the world puts it.
25:37
You're a people pleaser. You seek the approval of others.
25:40
And so, Steve, as you talk about codependency becoming a major
25:44
turning point for you, when you first heard that word applied to
25:49
you, you know, you mentioned the outward reaction, wanting to
25:54
deck the counselor that said, hey, you're a codependent, which
25:57
I can relate to. When you first hear about it and
25:59
you're like, you realize that they're talking about you, but
26:02
internally, what was that reaction?
26:04
What did that do to you when you first heard that and this idea
26:08
started to essentially become a reality to you?
26:13
Well, obviously when I first heard it, I was shocked.
26:15
I was in denial. Like anybody else.
26:17
I was an addict. I wasn't.
26:19
I was an addict. I just did not use a needle or a
26:22
pill or alcohol or pornography or overeat.
26:26
I used my emotions. That's the drug I needed.
26:29
I needed to feel good. I needed to feel needed.
26:32
I needed to feel loved. So when you start researching
26:35
that and you start developing on that and start peeling back
26:37
those layers, you're like, wow, I am an addict.
26:42
And then the shame comes in even more for a little season.
26:47
And you're like, how can I let myself get this way?
26:49
And how can I take this out on my kids and take this out on my
26:52
wife? I'd preach God because I was
26:56
needed and felt loved and felt wanted.
26:58
And then I'd go home and belittle my wife and take my
27:00
anger out on my kids 'cause I didn't know how to handle it and
27:03
yelling at her for passing out on the front row.
27:05
And she's this, she's that. And it's just, it's just a mess,
27:10
but you start to peel back all those relationships, all those
27:13
layers, and you start to really recognize and identify with the
27:16
problem that you have. And for anybody listening,
27:20
codependency and Steve's definition is if you're putting
27:23
your value into somebody else and not your own, then you're
27:30
only as good as that person is that day.
27:33
So when my wife took pain medicine, I was only as good as
27:38
she was that day. And what does that mean for
27:40
Steve? That means that she's taking
27:42
medicine to escape me. She doesn't like me.
27:45
There's something wrong with me. She's got escape from me.
27:49
So I was the savior part of codependency.
27:52
Oh, I'll fix her. Because if I fix her, then I'll
27:54
feel better because she's happy. And then I'm happy.
27:57
So you're putting all your value into somebody else and you're
28:01
only as good as they are. And what that means is if you
28:04
wake up in the morning and you're spouse, partner, whoever,
28:08
friend, anybody is upset, you immediately dive to what did I
28:14
do? I did something wrong.
28:17
And then you're a wreck. And then you fight with them
28:20
because you want to fix it right away.
28:22
And then you're wrecked for four more days because now you do
28:24
fight and you don't know how to handle it and you just blow up.
28:27
And that's codependency. And that's, that's the drug.
28:31
It is a drug. And you know, going through the
28:36
counseling and, and unwrapping it and unwrapping it, it's just
28:39
you slowly have all this vision of what I did that my dad, my
28:44
mother, different friends, different people at church, It
28:49
was all emotional driven. Absolutely.
28:55
That's what very well said. You know, to the listeners out
28:59
there, if you're listening to this and something has already
29:03
struck A chord with you, I mean, we're only about halfway through
29:06
right now, but we've talked about some pretty big stuff.
29:08
I invite you to share the episode with the person.
29:10
I believe that God brings people to mind for a reason.
29:14
And so even if you don't know why this person came to mind,
29:17
just take a moment and share the episode with them and just leave
29:20
it in God's hands because you don't know the reason.
29:23
Because we're, we're going to keep going here.
29:24
But I just want to put that out there and invite you to share
29:27
because I, I, I truly believe it'll help somebody.
29:31
You know, Steve, codependency became a major turning point for
29:35
you. And so when you first heard, I
29:41
mean, you mentioned the, the desire to deck the person and
29:45
the internal feelings. And I, I, I, I come back to that
29:49
because it's just, it's, it's funny to think about, you know,
29:53
and the fact that you were, I, I love the fact that you said,
29:57
Hey, I'm an addict, but you use emotions because when everybody
30:01
else thinks addict, they think of things like drugs or alcohol
30:05
or sometimes pornography or overeating or, or, you know,
30:09
that type of stuff. They don't think about emotions.
30:11
That's the furthest thing from anybody's mind when they think
30:14
about addiction. And so I love that you, you, you
30:16
brought that up. And so when it comes to the
30:21
codependency, how did that distort your understanding of
30:24
God's love and your identity in Christ?
30:30
It was he again, He tolerated me when I had the codependency.
30:37
You live in that shame and you want to believe that God loves
30:42
you, but the overpowering of I'm not good enough, won't let that
30:48
happen and won't let it in. And you transition through
30:53
talking it out and through scripture and, and stuff like
30:56
that, it started to unravel of his goodness and the
31:00
codependency part started to kind of just go away.
31:04
It wasn't, it's not an overnight fix.
31:07
I was in counseling for seven years and it, it's, it was a
31:11
slow process of slowly going through the same, how can I say
31:15
this, going through the same thing as an addict does.
31:19
You've got to, you know, get through that denial part, Then
31:22
you got to surrender and then you got to release all that.
31:26
You got to forgive. You got to have to go through
31:28
that same process. And that was hard with
31:32
codependency because it was an emotional based thing and you
31:35
touched on it that you know, that's the passion, that's the
31:38
ministry today. And when you say, when you bring
31:40
up the word 12 steps, you immediately go to alcohol and
31:43
drugs, those people. But what about you with your
31:48
anger? What about you with your
31:51
anxiety? What about your depression?
31:54
What about your codependency? Because there's so many parts of
31:59
codependency, love addicts and affection and attention getters
32:03
and all that stuff. Every addiction is tied to I'm
32:09
not good enough some way. And why aren't we in healing for
32:16
that? Do we just not think that
32:17
there's recovery for that? And that's the passion.
32:21
That's the ministry today is I want to help people that are
32:27
tied to somebody that's with an addict and also want to help
32:30
people that have emotional addictions get free.
32:36
Get out of this because God is good and God is really good.
32:40
And when you can get that less than feeling out of you, there's
32:45
so much freedom. There's just so much freedom.
32:47
There's so much weight gone for me and I still look heavy, but
32:51
there's a lot of weight off of me emotionally.
32:54
You know, one of the things that I talk about quite frequently on
32:57
this show and when I'm a guest, you know, we're, we're we're
33:00
flipping roles, is I talk about Celebrate Recovery.
33:03
I just, I love the ministry. I've been a part of it now for
33:06
many years. I'm a leader myself.
33:08
And I love that you brought up the ministry of Celebrate
33:10
Recovery because it's not something that I knew you were
33:12
going to bring up. You know, so if you're listening
33:14
to this and you're like another Celebrate Recovery person, it
33:17
was not on purpose. I did not even know that he was
33:19
in the in the ministry or part of the ministry.
33:22
But you've you've talked a lot about recovery things.
33:24
And so I'm curious, tell me about the first time you heard
33:28
about Celebrate Recovery and what was the initial thoughts
33:31
about it? And then what was it like for
33:34
you walking through the doors of a Celebrate Recovery for the
33:38
first time? Yeah, more than happy to share
33:41
that and don't know if you're also read on the ministry that I
33:46
created a 12 step program and we'll talk about that hopefully
33:49
a little bit later. But Celebrate Recovery was
33:52
introduced when I became a pastor and they had it at their,
33:56
the church that I was at. And I ended up going to be the
34:04
facilitated to be the, the new director of it.
34:08
And going through all the training and going through all
34:10
the classes and then participating for, you know, a
34:14
couple years in it along with this codependency that I had.
34:21
It was touching me, but I couldn't let anybody know
34:25
because I was a pastor. I was the leader of it.
34:29
I couldn't be open and honest with these people.
34:31
How embarrassing would that be? So for me, Celebrate Recovery
34:35
was slowly working on me, but I couldn't allow people to know
34:39
that it was working on me, which even drove more shame into me.
34:43
And it wonderful program if you're a part of it and it will
34:49
help you with not just drugs and alcohol, but that's I was in the
34:56
midst of all this mess while I was trying to be a leader in
35:00
that program, knowing good and well that I needed this just as
35:03
much as everybody else. I just didn't know I had to go
35:05
to the NC, but I knew I wanted to believe what we were reading
35:10
every week then. I wanted to believe those steps
35:13
and I wanted to believe and live out those principles.
35:15
I just didn't think they were for me.
35:18
So while I was in Celebrate Recovery in my mess, I so needed
35:23
it. So wanted it.
35:24
And looking back on it, it really did help me.
35:26
I just didn't think of it at the time because I had to keep
35:29
everything a secret. Yeah, I think that's, I think
35:34
that's the case for a lot of pastors when they walk into a
35:38
recovery thing. You know, they feel like they
35:40
have to keep their mask on and they can't be seen as human.
35:43
And that is the furthest thing from the truth when it comes to
35:48
recovery. When you're at a meeting,
35:50
whether it be CR or another one, you know, those are those are
35:53
safe places and they're designed for you to be able to take off
35:56
your mask and be honest and to not be looked at with disgust or
36:00
shame or anything like that. You're welcomed, you're
36:02
accepted, you're loved. And so I love, I just, and I
36:06
love it. But you have to be honest like I
36:08
wasn't. You do so.
36:09
Yeah, that's, that's the key part is you have to be willing
36:12
to admit that you're you're broken and you cannot start your
36:15
journey to recovery and your journey to healing until you're
36:19
willing to admit that you're broken.
36:21
Yeah, and how can I admit I'm broken to people that are broken
36:24
that look to me to help them get through the brokenness?
36:27
It was a mess. Just a mess.
36:30
Yeah. Well, well, when you thinking
36:34
about surrendering, you know, I, we, we've, you know, the first
36:38
step to being able to do healing or recovery is surrender.
36:41
And so when you think about that, what does surrender look
36:44
like for you, Not in theory, but practically?
36:48
And what changed when you stopped trying to fix
36:51
everything? That turning point when I
36:56
decided to separate from my family and I was at a point
37:02
where I knew that I had to get off the ship or I was going to
37:04
go down with it. And I was strong enough to move
37:08
out. I mean, that's a big step when
37:10
you're codependent because you need other people's emotions and
37:13
then go to being alone. That was scary.
37:17
And I, I moved out. My kids would come see me every
37:19
weekend. And I started to try to repair
37:21
this relationship. And you just slowly unmask all
37:31
those hidden things with codependency and it starts to
37:36
become a reality. I don't need her to make me feel
37:40
good. I don't need my kids to make me
37:43
feel good. And it ties back into finding
37:49
your identity in Jesus Christ. When I realized what that really
37:53
meant through healing, that really started to peel back all
37:57
that codependency and all that need for everybody else and so
38:02
much to the point to where now I don't need anybody in a sense
38:09
that I don't wake up to be loved.
38:11
I wake up to love because I got all the loving that I'll ever,
38:16
ever need. And that is healing.
38:19
That is healed. That is where you can get to.
38:24
That's where we want to get to. But in the midst of that, it's
38:27
just there's not any particular step I took.
38:29
It was just believing truth about who I was.
38:35
And once you believe the truth about who you are, it's easy to
38:39
break all those other strongholds.
38:43
Right. You know, one of the other
38:46
things you mentioned earlier, and I kind of laughed when you
38:48
mentioned it was that you're a father of seven and you kind of
38:51
explained the breakdown and had to break the Brady Bunch mold.
38:55
That was that was a nice little, nice little thing there.
38:59
I can't think of the term that I want to use, but as a father of
39:05
seven, how did your healing journey impact your parenting
39:09
and the atmosphere in your home? It was a little chaos.
39:18
So I've got I've during the the height of all this trouble in
39:23
hell that I was going through, my oldest son was 18, my second
39:27
son was 16 and then I had a A4 year old when the final divorce
39:34
came through. That's what age they were so
39:38
battling with that 18 year old trying to repair that
39:41
relationship. He's now he'll be 30 next month.
39:46
They have their own issues. They're not addicts, but they do
39:48
have codependency and I was going through that with them.
39:54
And then I meet a beautiful, wonderful woman named Sarah
40:00
who's my wife. We've been married eight years
40:03
now and her kids were young. And starting to transition from
40:12
a mess to love. It made my kids jealous.
40:18
And then we had a child together.
40:20
My new wife and my kids would always make comments.
40:24
Man, if I would have done that, you know, you would have been
40:27
super mad at me and you would have scolded me and this and
40:30
that. And it's like, man, I'm so
40:32
sorry. I was a different person.
40:34
I was such a different person back then because when my child
40:39
now knocks a plate off because he's not paying attention and
40:43
falls to the floor and food goes everywhere.
40:45
I would just come unglued with my older kids because I didn't
40:49
know how to handle my emotions with the codependency, with the
40:53
addiction. And and I'd take it out on them
40:57
and they see this one do the same thing.
40:58
And I'm like, it's OK, it's just a plate.
41:02
We'll get you new food. You know you just you don't come
41:05
unglued under circumstances anymore and trying to blend that
41:13
with a family. Although my kids saw me the ugly
41:19
way, why can't they see the transformed way?
41:23
Why does the pain always outweigh the good?
41:27
I think that's just where the devil wants to keep us if we're
41:29
not love, light and shine. Because they just see me
41:32
bouncing off just like a happy go lucky guy.
41:35
My life isn't based off a circumstance anymore.
41:38
You can't mess me up. You can't wreck me.
41:40
You can't, you can't have me down for seven days because I'm
41:46
upset and I need prayer. Oh, it's like, no, I come from
41:49
this place of I've inherited the Kingdom.
41:51
I have this authority. I can walk this, I can live in
41:54
this and I can be the love and I can be the light.
41:56
I know what it means to take up my cross.
41:59
It's not about me anymore. It's about everybody else.
42:02
And once you can come out of that in confidence, it's a good
42:06
thing because my kids now see love and her kids see love.
42:12
But unfortunately, my older kids see a man who somewhat seems
42:17
fake because they can't let go of what I did in the past.
42:21
And I just, I pray that God will work on them as well because I
42:26
can't step into codependency and fix them anymore.
42:29
I have to love them in their mess, just as Jesus loved me in
42:32
my mess. I love that.
42:35
You know, one of the things you know, when you think about, you
42:38
think about recovery and you talked about the fact that
42:42
you're a different person, but others are having a hard time
42:46
seeing you as that new person. You know, your kids and I'm sure
42:50
their kids are not the only one that comes back to a very
42:53
important theme. And this is just recovery in
42:55
general. And I want to just talk about a
42:58
real quick and that is the saying that we say in recovery
43:02
that you can clean your side of the street, but you can't clean
43:06
the others. You know, you are doing your
43:10
work, you are improving yourself.
43:12
You are cleaning your side of this.
43:14
And you just have to be OK with the fact that that is enough.
43:18
You can't make other people see you a certain way, think about
43:22
you a certain way. You can't clean their side of
43:25
the street. Only they can clean their side
43:27
of the street. And that is a tough pill to
43:29
swallow, you know, especially as a codependent, you know, we want
43:33
to jump in there and be like, hey, you know, she kind of shake
43:36
them. Look at me, look at me.
43:37
I'm not that person anymore. Because we want them to see how
43:40
we really are and to accept it and to to love us because of it.
43:44
But we can't control that. And so from your point of view,
43:49
how does that alter your mindset when you have kids and other
43:56
people that are just not able to seem to grasp it, at least at at
44:02
this point in time? How do you you come to terms
44:05
with that? Hardly very hard when you're
44:14
loved and when you can walk in that confidence, it hurts you
44:20
and it just I can cry for my kids.
44:23
They're, you know, my two older boys, you know, the 1 is just so
44:29
angry at me, at the world and lives his life.
44:35
And I mean, we have a relationship, he comes over, but
44:37
I don't put any expectation on the relationship.
44:41
My younger, the the 18 year old, the middle son, he's living with
44:45
me now. He just went through two love
44:49
addict relationships, ended up in jail and he's 27 years old,
44:54
starting life over, no car, just got a job, rides a bike to work.
44:58
I mean complete mess. You just have to as much as it
45:04
hurts, you have to let them figure it out because you just
45:07
like you said, I can't fix people.
45:11
My job isn't to fix people. And you know you're healed out
45:16
of codependency when you can honestly say that and I don't
45:20
want to fix them. Gosh, I, you know, if I can put
45:23
it this way, the wrath of God, I know what the wrath of God is.
45:30
It is as a father, I just want to go into my kids and remove
45:38
just a fiery angry, remove every bit of them that they think
45:43
they're less than that they that doesn't go against the identity
45:47
in Jesus Christ. I want to remove everything out
45:49
of there that does that. That is the wrath of God.
45:52
That's what he wants. He just wants just you do not
45:56
have those feelings and when you understand that you can come to
46:04
a place of I just have to love them.
46:06
God never forced anything on me. I could have got out of it a lot
46:10
quicker by surrendering. I didn't surrender.
46:13
I locked all those doors, wouldn't let them in.
46:16
My kids are going to have to do the same thing at some point in
46:18
their life. You know, they know I have a
46:21
ministry that I want to help other people like me before they
46:24
destroy family like I did. And they just don't get it yet.
46:31
But I can't let it wreck me because why?
46:34
Because I have other kids I got to take care of.
46:35
I got a wife I got to love. I got I I've got other things
46:38
I've got to do for the Kingdom. And if the devil wants to try to
46:42
use they're less than to get me a wreck, then he's just going to
46:47
drag me right back into that codependency and I can't let
46:49
that happen. Yep.
46:52
So as we have a blended family, half of them see me as a
46:55
monster. The other half sees me is this
46:58
wow, this guy is just like Jesus, you know, And it's, it's
47:03
hard. It's hard.
47:04
I can cry talking about it, you know, it's the prodigal son
47:06
story. You just have to sit on the
47:08
porch waiting for them to come home.
47:11
Yeah, yeah, man. It gives you a new having been
47:15
the son and the father. It gives you a new understanding
47:20
of this prodigal son story. It does.
47:25
You mentioned your ministry, tell us just a little bit about
47:29
your 12 step ministry that you've you're a part of now.
47:33
And then I I would touch on the fact I want to answer this
47:36
question is why is identity such a foundational piece of
47:42
recovery? Yeah, let's start with that one.
47:46
When you know that you were made in the image of Jesus Christ.
47:51
If you believe this and you know that, and you can set that truth
47:55
inside of you, I think that's what the Bible says.
48:00
The truth will set you free. You know, this is my belief.
48:05
This is my, the process of going through my relationship.
48:11
So I don't, I'm not here to offend anybody.
48:14
I'm just here to share my story. But you know, when Adam and Eve
48:17
fell in the garden, you know, a lot of Christianity in the
48:24
Western Christianity comes at it is we're sinners, we're
48:28
wretched, we're ugly. We automatically go into that
48:32
separation mode. And that's what we teach.
48:34
You're separated when you realize you never really were.
48:38
You just fell under the curse of Adam and Eve.
48:40
Because what happened? Will they send?
48:45
Really. What did they do?
48:49
They smoke. Did they drink?
48:51
See, because we go to mid behavior modification.
48:53
You're a Sinner. You're doing something bad.
48:56
You've got to stop. And it's no, you're thinking the
49:00
wrong thing about yourself. You need to stop.
49:03
That's what it all is. So when we come into this fallen
49:06
world of Adam, what they do, they felt shame immediately,
49:10
right off the bat. And we fall into that shame.
49:13
We didn't fall into behavior modification of doing things.
49:16
Of course we do things because of that shame, because of that
49:19
less than feeling. And then there was the denial.
49:22
It was shame and denial right off the beginning.
49:24
I'm Naked, I'm embarrassed, I'm shamed.
49:26
And then who told you were naked?
49:29
Well, you gave me that girl over there.
49:31
She did it. It's her fault.
49:33
Oh no, it's not. It was that snake.
49:34
It was that snake denial and shame right off the bat.
49:38
That's all we that's what we have.
49:39
That's what we were born into is that denial and shame.
49:41
Top that on with parents that don't know how to love you
49:44
because they loved you the best way they could.
49:47
So when you're drinking from a cup that's empty, you're not
49:51
going to get anything and you're going to thirst your whole life
49:53
like I did. I'm going to thirst.
49:55
I'm going to be less than I'm in this until this cup I drank of
49:59
truth and understand that Jesus, it's not a Christmas and Easter
50:04
story. Jesus died upon the cross.
50:06
He shed his blood so that I can be reconciled back to my
50:10
original self before the fall of Adam and Eve.
50:14
I don't know why we think Adam has more power than the second
50:17
Adam. The second Adam has way more
50:20
power and that blood was shed for us and we come under that
50:24
place of authority of while he really did die for me, he really
50:28
wanted to make me better. He really wanted me back to my
50:32
original image before the fountain fall of the world.
50:37
It's amazing. It's an amazing story.
50:39
It's such a freeing story. We make it about getting out of
50:42
here. We want to get out of here so
50:45
quick. We got to go to heaven.
50:46
We got to get out of here when all he said was the kingdoms
50:49
here. Will you help me bring it here
50:51
and blend it here and live out this life here?
50:55
So when you're talking about identity, that's where we come
50:58
under. That's where we we live from and
51:01
you have to understand that because like I said, there's so
51:03
many people in church that are never transformed.
51:06
They just hide behind going to church or they use God to get
51:09
them through what they need to get through.
51:11
And it's not that taking off the old self, which is your Adam
51:16
thought process and putting on this new one, which is taking up
51:18
the love and light of Jesus Christ and being that to the
51:21
world, other self-serving sacrificial love, right?
51:25
That's what it is. That's all it is.
51:28
So jumping into the ministry, Celebrate Recovery is great.
51:32
I was part of it. I'm part of it at my church now,
51:34
leading other people and just sharing a story and sharing this
51:38
truth now with people. But I still think that some of
51:45
these things keep you into the behavior modification.
51:48
If you could stop the behavior, you know, and surrender that to
51:51
God, surrender the behavior and, and, and do all this stop and we
51:54
can make it better to where my 12th step is based off the
52:00
identity of Jesus Christ. I want to dive into what's
52:03
inside because once we can fix that, that thought process, that
52:08
repentance, that changing of the mind, you know, we're missing
52:12
the market who we were created to be and we have to change our
52:15
mind about that and who we are. You'll want to stop the
52:20
addiction. We have to go through
52:22
transformation. So it's a program of community
52:27
to where people can come on and just, you know, how can I say
52:30
this, Paul, also we go through these sufferings.
52:32
Why do we go through these sufferings?
52:34
So we can walk alongside other people and help them through
52:38
their sufferings. And then we're going to go
52:40
through some other, I'll go through some suffering here
52:42
whenever, you know, and then then somebody's going to be
52:45
there to help me through that. And it's just a community of
52:48
people and love and light and just helping others.
52:51
So it's a program design not to replace any 12 step program at
52:57
all. It's just a community that's
52:59
online. So you know, when I was going
53:03
through Celebrate Recovery, some people couldn't wait Thursday to
53:08
6:00 to get to a meeting. They needed somebody now.
53:13
And there were single females in there that had three kids and
53:16
two jobs and they couldn't get to a step meeting.
53:19
They had the only time they can work on themselves was at 11:00
53:22
at night when they got everybody to bed.
53:24
So I created this community for people to come on and love each
53:28
other and help each other. And there's 12 steps and there's
53:31
principles and there's worksheets and there's
53:33
everything like Celebrate Recovery, but it's just online
53:36
and I designed it like this. I've invited you all to this
53:39
wonderful party and you're all having such a great time that I
53:44
can go upstairs and go to bed. I'm not needed.
53:46
I just facilitated. It's not a program that's all
53:49
about me. It's not a program.
53:50
It's all about, oh, look at me this and I'm done with that
53:52
codependency stuff. The passion is you help each
53:55
other. That's what community is.
53:56
That's what Kingdom Living is. I love it.
54:03
Community is so important and I love that I don't, I'm, I'm a
54:07
firm believer that there is, you can never have too many places
54:10
for community to be able to gather, especially if it's going
54:14
to be a healthy community that can be there to support you when
54:16
you need it. So kudos to you for doing that.
54:20
And it's not for those people. That's for everybody.
54:24
You know, many people in church circles feel pressure to appear
54:30
strong, especially leaders. We've talked about that in in
54:33
this episode. What would you say right now to
54:35
the pastor, to the volunteer, to the ministry leader who's out
54:39
there and they're serving, but they're secretly drowning?
54:45
There's help and there's victory on the other side of that.
54:52
You don't have to live in that shame.
54:53
You don't have to live in that secret.
54:55
That's a such a big weight and man, that's the passion.
55:01
It's just to help people remove that weight.
55:03
There's just, you know, we look at the I'm going to be
55:07
embarrassed. I'm going to be falling, I'm
55:09
going to be this and that. You know, I can tell you this.
55:13
I think your church will honor you a lot more from being open
55:16
and honest, and I think the Holy Spirit will come in and just
55:19
move incredibly to watch people have you and walk through that
55:24
with you. Yeah, I would agree.
55:27
You know, I, I can say from my personal experience that I look
55:31
at pastors differently when they are in a good way, when they are
55:37
honest from the pulpit and they say I've had this crap in my
55:42
life. I've dealt with addictions to
55:44
pornography, I've dealt with alcoholism, I've dealt with
55:47
drugs. I've done all those things in my
55:49
all these things in my past because it gives you as a member
55:53
of the congregation or first time visitor, a new way to be
55:57
able to relate with them and the ability to be like, they know
56:01
where I've been or what I'm going through right now.
56:04
And so it just opens the door, the door for people to be honest
56:07
with you in ways that they probably wouldn't be otherwise
56:10
because they'd know that you've been there.
56:12
Yeah, that's why it's just so important that you do that.
56:17
Well, if I can add, that's kind of another reason why I made the
56:20
community is because you can slowly go online, do step work
56:28
without anybody knowing in your area.
56:32
And then hopefully that will get you to enough point of
56:36
encouragement to go out and get into a step program in your
56:39
local community because you need, we can't do everything
56:42
online. I know that we have to have
56:44
community in full person. So it might be something for you
56:49
to check out as well. Yeah.
56:51
Well, Steve, I have one more question for you, but before I
56:53
ask it, I want to give you the opportunity here.
56:57
Somebody's out there, they're listening, and they want to find
56:59
out more about you or check out this community that you built.
57:02
Where can they find you in the community online?
57:05
Yeah, walkrightministries.com will get you everywhere.
57:09
Walkrightministries.com sounds like it roots, you know, spell
57:13
it out like sounds it's you'll find about the speaking
57:15
engagements. I do do coaching one-on-one.
57:18
I've got a podcast called Recovery and identity that I
57:20
just started that walks through steps and just talks about
57:24
recovery. But you can find the community
57:26
from there. I've got 2 guides.
57:28
I got a guide called Do I really need step work in community,
57:32
which is a little 30 page guide and evaluation on if you need
57:36
step worker, maybe a loved one might need step work because
57:39
again, it's not for drug addicts and Alcoholics, It's for
57:42
anybody. And then I've got another one,
57:45
another one called Rise above, a guide to untangling
57:48
relationships affected by addiction.
57:49
So if you're entangled with somebody that's an addict and
57:51
just don't know where to go, this is a nice little self
57:54
evaluation too that can help you also get into step work because
57:59
if you're entangled with somebody that's an addict, it's
58:04
it's a dead end road. I'm just going to tell you right
58:05
now it's a dead end road and you have to save yourself and your
58:09
family or whoever, or you're just going to go down with the
58:12
ship. So walk rideministries.com.
58:16
That's where you can find everything.
58:18
Perfect. And I will leave a, a link to
58:21
that down in the show notes. So if you're listening today and
58:23
you're driving down the road or somewhere that you can't write
58:26
it down, have No Fear. I'll have a link for it in the
58:29
comment or in the show notes. We'll see.
58:32
One of the things that I love to do on this show to end the show
58:35
is to leave my listeners with an action step, something that they
58:39
can do right now, something that they can think about in order to
58:42
continue or start their walk, maybe with the Lord or walk in
58:47
their recovery and to begin living unmasked.
58:50
And so if there's somebody out there right now that's listening
58:54
and they feel trapped in shame, whether it be from addiction,
58:58
codependency, trauma, failure, you name it, what is the first
59:03
step towards freedom that they can start taking right now?
59:10
I would ask them to get into a very quiet area and just come to
59:16
God and just say God, I know that I have an issue.
59:22
I'm at a breaking point right now and I feel all this weight
59:27
and pressure. Are you truly inside of me and
59:31
want to fix this? And keep doing that until you
59:35
get an answer because He will answer you.
59:38
And it's not going to be an audible answer outside your
59:40
head. I mean, it could be you'd be a
59:41
lucky 1, but it's going to be your own voice.
59:44
But you're going to hear the spirit move and it's going to
59:47
move you into a direction. And if it has anything to do
59:51
with fear, that's not that voice.
59:55
But get alone, get quiet and just ask him, Are you inside of
59:58
me? Are you there?
1:00:01
And he'll answer you. I did that through therapy.
1:00:03
And once I started doing that. I really started to hear him
1:00:08
because all I heard was myself. Those times of pastoring, all I
1:00:12
just heard myself. It was just, I've got to fix
1:00:14
this. I got to fix that.
1:00:15
I got to do this. I got to keep people at Bay
1:00:17
here. I got to keep this lie going.
1:00:18
I got to, you know, I mean, it's just that codependency world.
1:00:21
But he will talk to you once you get a clear head and he will
1:00:24
have a conversation with you daily.
1:00:25
If you want it, you just got to want it.
1:00:27
But start there. There's victory.
1:00:29
There's so much victory and so much freedom.
1:00:31
I can't I I can't express that enough.
1:00:35
Yeah. Absolutely.
1:00:36
He's so good. He is so good beyond our belief.
1:00:39
He absolutely is. And there's there's one thing
1:00:42
there that you said that I I want to touch on real quick and
1:00:46
just clarified from my perspective is, you know, he's
1:00:49
going to talk to you if you ask and you listen, but he may ask
1:00:53
you to do something that is going to be very uncomfortable.
1:00:57
And because of that, you're going to fear it.
1:00:59
You know, he may say, hey, yeah, you know, you, you're not
1:01:03
walking with me. I need you to stop doing XY or
1:01:05
Z. And you're going to be scared
1:01:08
out of your mind to do it because because you're used to
1:01:12
it, you're comfortable with it. It's a part of you now.
1:01:15
Yes. And so I, I just want you to
1:01:19
know that he will answer and it may be a little scary, but he's
1:01:25
not going to ask you to walk in that fear.
1:01:28
And he will help you if you're willing to take that step.
1:01:33
Yeah, thanks for clarifying that.
1:01:34
Because what I meant by fear, I meant or lies.
1:01:38
Is anything that going to point you, you DB even more, less than
1:01:42
or more shameful or I don't like you, You're not good enough.
1:01:45
You're going to have to clean yourself up before you come to
1:01:48
me. Don't listen to that stuff.
1:01:50
But what you're talking about, Yeah.
1:01:52
You mean say, hey, you need to tell 10 people today that you
1:01:56
got a problem that's going to be fearful, That's the good way you
1:01:59
got to go. Well, Steve, thank you so much
1:02:04
again for coming on Unmasked and sharing your story with us and
1:02:08
trusting us with your story it it truly means the world.
1:02:12
And I've really enjoyed the conversation.
1:02:14
It was an honor to be here and I give all the glory to him and
1:02:17
and just thank you so much for facilitating this to to be able
1:02:20
to reach people in in the Kingdom.
1:02:22
So that's awesome. Absolutely.
1:02:31
Well, thanks for joining me today on Unmasked.
1:02:32
And again, a huge thanks to Steve for being on the show and
1:02:36
sharing so openly, anonymously. If something in this episode
1:02:40
spoke to you, don't let it stop with you.
1:02:43
Share it with the one person that got put on your heart while
1:02:45
you were listening because you never know whose breakthrough
1:02:48
might start with just a simple message from you.
1:02:51
If you want more encouragement, you want to speak with me or
1:02:54
work with me one-on-one, or you're interested in having me
1:02:57
speak at your church or event, you can find
1:03:00
everything@wesleyfarmsworth.com and make sure you join the
1:03:04
Unmasked community by connecting with me on social media so that
1:03:07
we can keep walking this journey together.
1:03:09
Until next time, remember that grace is greater than your past
1:03:13
and freedom begins the moment that you choose to live
1:03:17
unmasked. God bless you.