Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Outrage! Only Fans "Model" to Walk Free On Murder Charges!

Transcript

Outrage! Only Fans "Model" to Walk Free On Murder Charges! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Outrage.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Tonight and Only Fans Model, and I say that holding
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: my nose and Only Fans Model is set to walk
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: free on murder charges. Good evening, I mean'sy grace, this
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: is crime stories. I want to thank you for being
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: with us.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, I'm caring.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: WI do it?
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: How many does?
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: I didn't sat him?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I and I threw it.
• 0:50
  Speaker 6: I mean, I think, don't come anywhere clot me.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: I have no intention of ning it.
• 0:55
  Speaker 6: And I'm good.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Bye, baby, baby, wake up?
• 1:11
  Speaker 7: Wait listen?
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: What is she too pretty for jail? Because I can
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: tell you this.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: The victim, the dead victim wasn't pretty when the cops
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: found him bleeding out on the floor. And tonight we
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: learn that an Only Fans model not judging. I'm not
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the church lady. I don't care what she does in
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: her spare time. But this is the stabbing of.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: An unarmed man.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: And she admits that she stabbed him, but claims she
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: threw the knife at him. Hey, let's pull up the
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: pig carcass video. I never thought in law school, when
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I was working away on laur review that the words
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: pig carcass video. There you go, let's just drink that
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: in for a moment. Yes, that is a pig carcass.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: This woman's defense is in self defense. She throws a knife,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: throws a knife at the boyfriend that she has been
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: beating and abusing for years and is caught on video
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: on an elevator for one example, and that she threw
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: it exactly at him with such force that it what
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Larry Seaward, Uh, Larry joining US investigative reporter CBS Miami.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: How tell me about the wound on the victim.
• 2:47
  Speaker 8: So the wound to Christian Umboseli, who's the victim? You're
• 2:50
  Speaker 8: twenty seven year old eight centimeters deep in his chest.
• 2:53
  Speaker 8: It's severed an artery. That is how he died. He
• 2:55
  Speaker 8: died at a hospital.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Please speak imperial A eight centimators equals how many inches?
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: What are we talking about?
• 3:06
  Speaker 8: Well, clearly, this is a wound deep enough to not
• 3:09
  Speaker 8: just cut vessels. This severed and artery. This is a
• 3:12
  Speaker 8: very deep wound that he suffered. And what Courtney Clintey
• 3:15
  Speaker 8: is saying is that she threw it and that that
• 3:17
  Speaker 8: throw got the knife lodges and this just deep enough
• 3:20
  Speaker 8: to do that. Now, Umboseli's family says This is clearly
• 3:23
  Speaker 8: a stabbing that happened from a close distance away from
• 3:26
  Speaker 8: the victim. Of course we won't see any more evidence
• 3:29
  Speaker 8: because the case never went to trial.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what, Larry investigative reporter CBS Larry Seaward
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: straight out to Robert Crispin, joining US private investigator with
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Crispin Special Investigations, former federal Task Force for the US
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Department of Justice, the DEA Miami Field Office Homicide Detective
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Crimes against Children. It goes on and on, Crispin, you
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: heard Seaward, that's three and she's d.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Seven.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Did you hear what he said? It's severed and artery?
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: What throwing a knife?
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Really, she's lying through her teeth and she is going
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: to walk free, Crispin. She's walking free. So you know what,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: your law enforcement, what do all the cops have to say?
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: They work their tails off, blood, sweat and tears for
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: her to walk free when she has been beating and
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: abusing him. You know how rare that is that the
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: woman is the aggressor. I usually don't even believe it,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: but all the friends, all the acquaintances, have told us
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: time and time again how she would slap him, beat him,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: verbally abuse him in public and he would just sit
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: there and take it.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: We've even got.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Her on video on an elevator beating his ass and
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: she's walking free.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Crispin, help me.
• 4:55
  Speaker 9: You know, I don't think anybody gets that plea, especially
• 4:59
  Speaker 9: with the history of the two year relationship and all
• 5:01
  Speaker 9: the domestic violence calls, the video in the elevator, the
• 5:05
  Speaker 9: arrest out in Las Vegas, getting the digital evidence out
• 5:08
  Speaker 9: of her phone where she kept her own diary and
• 5:12
  Speaker 9: log of how she needs to stop being so violent
• 5:15
  Speaker 9: against Christian. I'm coming to you out front of the Perissio,
• 5:19
  Speaker 9: the one Parisio in Miami where twenty two floors up.
• 5:23
  Speaker 9: This thing happened, and these neighbors are glad it's over
• 5:26
  Speaker 9: because they're tired of the cameras.
• 5:28
  Speaker 7: But nobody is happy with this plea.
• 5:30
  Speaker 9: I think if any of this evidence would have got out,
• 5:33
  Speaker 9: a jury would have found her guilty of second degree murder.
• 5:37
  Speaker 9: Do I think this was premeditated, Absolutely not, But with
• 5:41
  Speaker 9: the history of domestic violence stopped right there.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Excuse me, Crispin. Crispin, I'm sorry. When did you get
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: your juris doctrine?
• 5:50
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I don't need it for this case, Nat, there's
• 5:52
  Speaker 9: enough evidence here.
• 5:53
  Speaker 7: A good no.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: In po In ten can be formed in the twinkling
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: of a moment, the blink of an eye, and the
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: time it takes to pull a trigger, much less pick
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: up a knife and throw it, which is a lie.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: You cannot stab somebody three inches deep, sever and artery
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: by throwing a kitchen knife at them.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Try it, Try it.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Intent can be formed just like that, and the time
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: it takes her to pick that knife up, Crispin, That
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: is the law. And I don't care what those people
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: living in that luxury high rise want in this case,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: don't care.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I want what the victim's family wants.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: You think they want her to walk free.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: No, they don't want her to walk free.
• 6:42
  Speaker 7: Not at all, Absolutely not. And this is a travesty
• 6:45
  Speaker 7: of justice.
• 6:46
  Speaker 9: This is a slap to law enforcement's face of all
• 6:49
  Speaker 9: the hard work that they put in in the State
• 6:52
  Speaker 9: Attorney's office and the prosecutors put into this. Obviously, Nancy,
• 6:57
  Speaker 9: something happened behind the scenes, some peace evidence, something somewhere
• 7:02
  Speaker 9: along the line, led the State Attorney's office to believe
• 7:05
  Speaker 9: they could have an issue with some part of this
• 7:07
  Speaker 9: evidence or testimony that would have found her not guilty
• 7:12
  Speaker 9: or found that one.
• 7:13
  Speaker 7: Sure what you know what?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Again, I don't know what who killed Robert Crispin and
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: is wearing his skin? Because that is crazy talk. Have
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: you ever heard of a lazy prosecutor? We had them
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: in our office when we had about eighty lawyers. Everybody,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: the defense attorneys would dance down the halls with glee
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: when their case was assigned to these prosecutors. They wouldn't
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: go to trial, no way, no how, come, hell or
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: high water. They were gonna take a plea. And everybody
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: knew it. That was where you go to get a
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: cheap plea, and that's what happened here. There's nothing wrong
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: with this evidence. As a matter of fact, Control room,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: see a little that body cam where she's perfectly fine.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: No bruises, no scrapes, no nothing, She's only covered. Oh
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: can you please pull up your top?
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Woman?
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Do I have to see that right here? At supper time?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Do I have to?
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: He's lying in the floor, bleeding out, and she is
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: perfectly fit as a fiddle, doing what she does best,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: showing her breast to whoever wants to look at it,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: not me, woman covered in her fiance's blood. Now to
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Mark Astor joining us high profile a lawyer at a
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Boca Raton criminal defense attorney at Astor Simovich and Star
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: podcast The Journey by Mark Astor. Mark, how did this happen?
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I'm angry and I want justice. I mean, I've been
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: hearing about this case.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Did you know this is four years almost to the
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: day that he was stabbed in. I have seen his
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: mother crying, begging for justice. What's she going to do now?
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Just go lay down on the train track and wait
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: for a train.
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: Nancy, There's some things you said I agree with. In
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: some things that you said I disagree with. First of all,
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: the idea that she threw the knife at him, I
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: agree is completely ridiculous, But that does not negate the
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: idea that this was a self defense case. There's also
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: evidence that this was a very volatile relationship and she
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: may well have been the instant.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Excuse me, Mark, excuse me. I actually want you to
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: hold that thought. But let me have a word with
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: the New York control room very quickly. The victim is dead.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I don't need to see her TNA tonight. Okay, the
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: whole world has seen it. All you have to do
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: is how much is an onlyfan subscription ten dollars whatever.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: You can see it all.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: You want to show me something, you show me the
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: prior incidence of her beating on him and that body camp.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: She's fit as a fiddle and he's dead on the floor.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: How is that self astor? I apologize, Please start over,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: and I will try not to interrupt you this time
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: unless I.
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: See more t and a perfectly okay. So I think
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: there's a couple things. One, just because there's a plea
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: doesn't mean to say that the prosecutors were lazy. Okay,
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: I think there's evidence to suggest that this is a
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: good self defense case. Now, I know there's evidence that
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: she was the aggressor, but I believe there's also evidence
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: that at some point he was the aggressor. This was
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: a volatile relationship. So just because you have a decedent
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: doesn't mean to say that there's not going to be
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: an acquittal. That's number one. Number two, you have the
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: deceedon's family who apparently wanted to get this case resolved.
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: And if I'm defending this woman, I'm going to probably
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: drag his name and his reputation through the mud so
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: that I can argue to a jury that the self
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: defense was reasonable, and I have to believe that the
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: family didn't want to go through that didn't want to
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: have this their loved one's name and reputation sullied and
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: drag through the mud. So I think that this.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: May excuse me, excuse me? Are you clearvoyant? Or you did?
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: You bring your crystal ball today? You can look in
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: it and you can tell me what the victim's family wanted.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Where are you getting this? Why are you saying this?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: And you know what, I've never tried a single murder case,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: and I've tried plenty. I didn't just fall off the
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: turnip truck.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, asther, So don't pull that on me.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Every murder case, the victim is dragged through the mud.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: They used cocaine, No they didn't. They were drunk, No
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: they weren't. She was cheating, No she wasn't. They'll say
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: anything anything in front of a jury to make the
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: jury dislike the victim.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Don't care.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Now, what is the evidence you're talking about that he
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: was the aggressor?
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: Well, apparently they had a very volatile relationship. There's evidence
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: out there that this was a combative relationship that he
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: and I get you yeah, I'm looking.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: At it right now. She's beating the hell out of him.
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: Well, here's the deal man, So we don't know what
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: happened before they got in the elevator. Had he been
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: the aggressive aggressive? Was she defending herself in that elevator.
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: I think you could make a logical argument from that.
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: So you can't just judge what you see in the
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: video in a vacuum. You simply can't do that. So
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: I disagree with that analysis.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you just gave me a pain in my back.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: I thought I was having a heart attack. Listen as her.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Your good looks and your brit accent might work on
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of people, it's not working on me because
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I asked you what was your evidence that he was
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: the aggressor? And you said, you can't believe everything you see.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on, please, I've got it on video.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: She's beating him. That's what all the friends, that's what
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: all the families say. For years, she beat him and
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: he took it. She finally stabbed him dead, and you
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: have not given me one shred of evidence that he
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: was the aggressor.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Nancy.
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: There is buddy cam footage where she's interviewed there by
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: the way, she was clearly incostandy. When she was interviewed
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: at the scene, she wasn't Mirandi's that's number one. Number two,
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: she tells. She tells the officer that he had grabbed her,
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: that he had choked her. There's your self defense case
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: right there on the body cam footage. So again I
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: disagree with your analysis. And again we can't judge evidence
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: in a vacuate, but there's certainly evidence to support this
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: is a good self defense case.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Good good, you believe her or my lion eyes.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: You know what. Let's straight out to you, David, I'll
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: see who we believe.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we didn't in this case because the prosecutor
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: did not have the Let's see, I don't know how
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: well versed you are in Latin, but the prosecutor didn't
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: have the balls to take it to trial, just like
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: adding coburger. You know, you may be laughing at my vernacular,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: but this is a miscarriage of justice.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: This is wrong.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: And there is no way in h double l that
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: the victim's family is fine with her walking free when
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: their son is stabbed dead.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Nancy, I agree with you.
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: It's a life sentence it's a life sentence. But to
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: say the prosecues didn't try this case because they were lazy,
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: I have to respectfully disagree with that.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Having said they didn't have any balls, I think that's
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: more act.
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: Okay, you can use that. I prefer you'll tell him walks.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: But I get what you're saying. But just to judge
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: the prosecuse in a vacuum, I don't think we can
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: do that.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: It's not a vacuum. I mean, I've.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Help me, Dave Matt, please help me explain to Mark
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Astor the years of abuse this victim took. And it's
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: very rare. Doctor Jamie Lacy is going to back me
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: up on that. I think that the male is the
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: victim of verbal and physical abuse by a domestic partner.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: It's very rare. But nobody says he ever attacked her.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Help me out, Dave mac.
• 15:06
  Speaker 10: You're dead on accurate. Nancy that friends that knew the
• 15:11
  Speaker 10: relationship always said that it was Courtney Clinny that was
• 15:16
  Speaker 10: the aggressor. And you know, the when she would drink,
• 15:20
  Speaker 10: that's when the ugly violent verbal abuse would come out,
• 15:25
  Speaker 10: and everything that we have seen. When you watch the
• 15:28
  Speaker 10: bodycam footage from police. You see Courtney Clinny trying to
• 15:31
  Speaker 10: play the cops, trying to play like she's.
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: The victim, always the victim.
• 15:36
  Speaker 10: Meanwhile, Christian Oldnselli is dead on the floor. You know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 10: when you look at the actual elevator footage, you can
• 15:44
  Speaker 10: see that Christian is trying to not hurt her. He's
• 15:49
  Speaker 10: trying to protect himself and to get her to stop.
• 15:53
  Speaker 10: This is something that we've talked about so many times
• 15:55
  Speaker 10: with this case that no matter what, Christian was obviously
• 16:00
  Speaker 10: or appears to obviously be the victim on a regular basis,
• 16:05
  Speaker 10: there were so many interactions, Nancy. The one that comes
• 16:08
  Speaker 10: to me that I look at is after Okay, after
• 16:12
  Speaker 10: the murder, when Fortney Clinty fled Miami and went back
• 16:16
  Speaker 10: home to Texas to stay with her folks. Eight weeks
• 16:19
  Speaker 10: after the murder, she's walking her dogs in the neighborhood
• 16:23
  Speaker 10: and comes across an eighteen year old boy and she's
• 16:27
  Speaker 10: aggressive towards this boy so much, so sexually aggressive that
• 16:33
  Speaker 10: he felt uncomfortable about walking with her and talk to
• 16:37
  Speaker 10: God his dad to get involved. They had to call police, Nancy,
• 16:41
  Speaker 10: because she was so aggressive. It's just her mentality and
• 16:46
  Speaker 10: so Christian Obemselly is dead because he was a victim
• 16:52
  Speaker 10: of abuse.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Pithy, close up you were showing me of her in
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: her kimono and her pushup braw please because it focused
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: on her neck.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Nothing no bruises, no scratches, no anything.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Oh look at that. The fight was so horrible that
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: she managed to keep on her false eyelashes. Wow, that
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: was some prize fight right there. Yeah, you know to
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Doctor Janey Lacey joining US licensed psychotherapist CEO of Life
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Counseling Solutions. She is the star and host of Let's
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Talk About It with Janie Lacy. She is author of
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: How to Heal from a Toxic Relationship, Doctor Janey. In
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: all the years I worked the hotline as a volunteer
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: at the Better Women's Center, so often the women would
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: say it was always women, never a man. They would say, Oh,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: but he was drunk. It's not really his fault.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: That's BS.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: That is a crutch, That is a lie, that is
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: a screen to mask the truth that the victim is
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: getting baiting viciously. Why did he stay in it? Now
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: he's dead?
• 18:11
  Speaker 11: I think, Nancy, first, what we're hearing it is rare
• 18:15
  Speaker 11: that men report abuse but I see it all the
• 18:18
  Speaker 11: time where also men are the victims of abuse. But
• 18:23
  Speaker 11: I think what tends to happen is that they have
• 18:25
  Speaker 11: this perception that they are strong, they're a man, I
• 18:28
  Speaker 11: should take it, or if I just do what she wants,
• 18:31
  Speaker 11: then perhaps it'll go away. I hear all of the
• 18:34
  Speaker 11: negotiations inside themselves why they stay in these relationships. And
• 18:38
  Speaker 11: then there's also they truly love and they truly enjoy
• 18:42
  Speaker 11: parts of the relationship, so they kind of wait for
• 18:45
  Speaker 11: her reaction to pass so we can just get back
• 18:48
  Speaker 11: to normal. So like in any toxic relationships, and in particular,
• 18:51
  Speaker 11: when I look at this toxic relationship, I look at
• 18:54
  Speaker 11: this plea deal, it's just legal resolution. It doesn't tell
• 18:57
  Speaker 11: me that this truly was a toxic relationship because it was.
• 19:01
  Speaker 11: What we see is this shift from her moving from
• 19:03
  Speaker 11: this defensive position to some form of accountability for her
• 19:07
  Speaker 11: legal resolution. But when we look at toxic relationship cycles,
• 19:11
  Speaker 11: they always, especially and I do say always, the one
• 19:14
  Speaker 11: who sometimes is the abuser, has this position that they
• 19:18
  Speaker 11: position themselves entirely as a victim. And when in this case,
• 19:22
  Speaker 11: when the reality of a trial right, it would undeniably
• 19:25
  Speaker 11: we have the evidence coming about. There has to be
• 19:27
  Speaker 11: some level for her own survival to admit to some
• 19:30
  Speaker 11: level of accountability in.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: This case manslaughter.
• 19:34
  Speaker 11: But this is her having to admit to some level
• 19:37
  Speaker 11: of reacting to this abuse, which we know. Men stay
• 19:40
  Speaker 11: in these relationships because of many reasons, and one of
• 19:43
  Speaker 11: those reasons is because they love and they enjoy parts
• 19:46
  Speaker 11: of it, but they also believe I am the man.
• 19:48
  Speaker 11: Nobody will believe me, which to me indicates why he
• 19:51
  Speaker 11: was filming and getting some of these evidence.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Is Nancy, I want you guys to hear before I
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: go to our renown own medical examiner formerly of Clark County,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that's Vegas and never lack of business, doctor Jane Gorniak,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: I want you.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: To hear.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: An audio that was privately recorded by the dead victim
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Christian before his death. He didn't think anyone would believe
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: that he the man, was being abused and beaten and threatened,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: and he secretly recorded one of the of the defendant's
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: tirades at Robert Crispin.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Please listen to this, y'all, to what is going on?
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: What do you are you gonna get? This shout of
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: almost apologizing to you, but you're thinking I'm doing it.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not your high pot.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: I'm not doing it on purpose.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: The right thing to do is to tell.
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: Me yes, and I am so sorry.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Shut up, you don't give me my phone your phone?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Find it and.
• 21:15
  Speaker 10: Shot.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't care find just don't. Yeah, man,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: oh man, because I'll tell you.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I'm like fin, I don't know where your phone is?
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: Fine it?
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: Can you help me find it?
• 21:38
  Speaker 8: I man?
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Man your man man yeah man yeah, a man, yeah man.
• 21:58
  Speaker 6: I need to find it because I have to on
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: be a down so to go out.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: No, I don't have to.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Just just please shut up.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Please shut up? You want to go? I thought I
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: didn't go to go. Yes, I told me about enough.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: What do you do all day, every day, every night?
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Twenty four seven, three sixty five, Robert Crispin joining us.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: You know what, Crispin, Sometimes I think we've seen it all.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I think I'll never be shocked again. But just imagine
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: living in that home. This was all because she couldn't
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: find her cell phone and he couldn't find it quickly
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: enough for her. The screaming, the parsing, the threatening over
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: finding the cell phone, every day, getting abused like that,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and now he's dead.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: He's dead in his twenties.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: My little babies are about to turn nineteen. He's just
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: a few years older than that, and he's gone Crispin forever.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Imagine what his mother is going through. And now the
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: killer is walking free.
• 23:34
  Speaker 9: I can't imagine the pain of losing my child, let
• 23:39
  Speaker 9: alone any parent losing dear child. But that video is
• 23:43
  Speaker 9: a great snapshot of who Courtney Kenny is.
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: That's exactly who she is.
• 23:49
  Speaker 9: And ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'd like to
• 23:51
  Speaker 9: publish this video is exhibit number one.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: You mentioned that everybody in that luxury high eyes behind
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: you wanted this case over and done with. What's it
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: to them? What this is not about them? Why did
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: you even say that.
• 24:13
  Speaker 9: It is not about them? But it's bringing a lot
• 24:15
  Speaker 9: of unwanted attention to their homes, to their building stuff
• 24:19
  Speaker 9: that they just wanted to go away. They wanted her
• 24:22
  Speaker 9: to go to jail. No one has said anything nice
• 24:25
  Speaker 9: about her, Not one person has said anything nice about her.
• 24:29
  Speaker 9: But I think they're a little tired of all the
• 24:31
  Speaker 9: news cameras out front, all the reporters, and all these
• 24:34
  Speaker 9: people that have spent millions and millions of dollars on
• 24:38
  Speaker 9: property here. As you know, these things have stigmas. I'm
• 24:42
  Speaker 9: not going to buy in that building. There was a
• 24:44
  Speaker 9: murder in there. I'm gonna go next door and spend
• 24:46
  Speaker 9: fifteen million dollars. This building has sprawling views of Biscayne
• 24:51
  Speaker 9: Bay in Miami Beach. This really put a stain on
• 24:54
  Speaker 9: them when we lost a great guy.
• 24:56
  Speaker 7: This guy was murdered.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Straight out to guests joining us, doctor Jan Gorniac out
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: of the Florida jurisdiction, former medical Examiner Clark County's Medical
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Examiner's Office, that's Vegas, Board certified forensic pathologists and founder
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: of World Peace Forensic Consulting. Doctor Gorniac, thank you for
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: being with us tonight. Please explain the nature of the victims'
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: mortal wounds.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: I'm going to try. First of all, I don't believe
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: the knife throwing incident, and I think when you were
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: just showing pictures, I saw a picture of a knife
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: on the ground amongst the blood. When someone is stabbed,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: the hardest part to stab through is the skin, so
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: there had to be a lot of forces to break
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: through to the skin. I don't believe that you're saying
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: if it was thrown three inches. She was close up,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: got into his his chest, so there's a lot of
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: arteries there, but it could have been up in his neck.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: I wasn't able to find exactly where, but I heard
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: one of your the reporters to his chest. So obviously
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: your heart is in that area, your lung, a lot
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: of major vessels the order, So that's why he bled out.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: It looks more like he bled out really quickly because
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: he's unresponsive in that spot where he was stabbed. More
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: likely than not, it looks like he was stabbed in
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: the neck where he got a lot of blood and
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: he would bleed out, he would sanguinate and go on
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: responsive really quickly. Because it was a chest boom, he
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: would have been able to walk around. I'm not sure
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: where if all the blood is concentrated in one place,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: or is there evidence that he was able to walk around,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: But yes, getting through the skin, if it's in the chest,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: through the ribs, that knife had to be really sharp.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: But three inches in the chest can definitely was a
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: fatal wound. Do not think it was thrown, absolutely not.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Was it it was wrown?
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Guys, you're hearing for now.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Medical examiner doctor Gan Gorniac speaking Larry Seaward joining US
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: investigative reporter CBS News Miami. You can find him on
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Insta at l Seaward CBS. Larry again, thank you for
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: being with us tonight. Explain to me the play deal
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: and how quickly she's going to be able to walk free.
• 27:34
  Speaker 8: So let's back up to the original charge, which was
• 27:36
  Speaker 8: second degree murder. Obviously there's the potential of her spending
• 27:40
  Speaker 8: the bulk of her life that's left inside of a prison. Sale. Now,
• 27:45
  Speaker 8: four years of this case on going led to negotiations
• 27:48
  Speaker 8: which she's pled guilty to one count of manslaughter with
• 27:53
  Speaker 8: a deadly weapon. The minimum state minimums for that is
• 27:56
  Speaker 8: fifteen years. The deal that she has says that she
• 28:00
  Speaker 8: can serve six years and then five years probation, but
• 28:03
  Speaker 8: she's also getting credit for time served which Courtney Clinty
• 28:07
  Speaker 8: was arrested in Hawaii in August of twenty twenty two.
• 28:10
  Speaker 8: That will also count toward her time serve. She's been
• 28:12
  Speaker 8: in jail in Miami Dade County since she was extradited
• 28:16
  Speaker 8: from Hawaii, so that's four years. So minimum she's looking
• 28:20
  Speaker 8: at getting out of jail or prison, I should say
• 28:22
  Speaker 8: getting out of state prison in two years. But with
• 28:25
  Speaker 8: the way good behavior guidelines are in the state of Florida,
• 28:28
  Speaker 8: ten days for every month of good behavior, she could
• 28:31
  Speaker 8: potentially walk out of state prison in eighteen months. Now,
• 28:36
  Speaker 8: after she serves that time, she's looking at five years
• 28:40
  Speaker 8: of probation and any violation of that probation, and there
• 28:43
  Speaker 8: are many stipulations she could be looking at up to
• 28:46
  Speaker 8: thirty years in prison.
• 28:47
  Speaker 12: As Okay, here's the reality check on a second degree
• 28:54
  Speaker 12: murder charge in this jurisdiction punishable up to.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Life behind bars on second degree murder as it stands now,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: and I doubt there's any way this plea can be retracted.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: She's walking in eighteen months or less. Does the name
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Diddy Sean Comb's aka Puff aka Puffy aka Puff Daddy
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: aka Love ring a bell? Because he's gonna walk in
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: a couple of months. And it seems like every time
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I look at his release date, it's been moved closer
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: and closer. It's ever changing. How is that happening? Tell
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: that to his crime victims, to Robert Crispin, What is
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: she too pretty for jail? I remember when deb lafav
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: said that, and sadly it was true.
• 29:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, no, it happens.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: The judge could have rejected this.
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: Listen.
• 30:04
  Speaker 9: I'm surprised that the judge didn't reject this, especially with
• 30:08
  Speaker 9: you know, Kathy Fernandez Roundel running this operation. I'm surprised
• 30:13
  Speaker 9: she didn't take this to trial. She's always a victim advocate.
• 30:17
  Speaker 9: I don't know what happened here, Nancy, I honestly don't,
• 30:20
  Speaker 9: But she's actually gonna have a problem in prison. Prison
• 30:25
  Speaker 9: is no fun being in a prison, in a jail cell,
• 30:28
  Speaker 9: in a population where there's really bad people.
• 30:31
  Speaker 7: It is not good for someone like her. I'm gonna
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: tell you.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: What to put him up.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: There's really bad people in jail.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: She is a really bad people. Have you lost who killed.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Him and is wearing his skin? What happened to him?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: She is a really bad people. She's stabbed.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I've got her boyfriend dad after years of abuse? What
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: am I? She's gonna be with bad people? What is
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: wrong with you?
• 31:00
  Speaker 8: Man?
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: Not at all?
• 31:03
  Speaker 9: Just because she's a high profile murder suspect, She's gonna
• 31:06
  Speaker 9: get her butt kicked in prison.
• 31:08
  Speaker 7: It's just gonna happen, just like Denny's.
• 31:10
  Speaker 9: Having problems because he was a high profile person.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: These people up.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I guarantee you this woman, Courtney Clinty, she'll go toe
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: to toe with anybody behind bars. You don't see what
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: she did to a grown man. He's dead, dead, dead Crispin.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And you're worried she might get slapped behind bars. I
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: don't think so that's not happening. I'm she'll beat it up.
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: I'm not worried about that.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: You say't worried?
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: What?
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: You think she's cute? You think she's.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Look at his dead body, then tell me how pretty
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: she is.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Stop showing that. Put up, Crispin.
• 31:55
  Speaker 7: She's got problems coming when she gets in jail.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with that?
• 32:00
  Speaker 7: Oh? I don't find any problem with that. You know
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: in jail they called that.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Seem like you're little sad about it. She's gonna be
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: behind parts with some bad people.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Nancy, she is a bad people. I'm gonna let you
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: think about that for a few moments.
• 32:14
  Speaker 7: Oh, I get it.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Wow, you know what. I'm a JD, not a DDS.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to pull teeth, but you know what,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: give me a set of pliers, because I think I
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: can pull Crispin's tooth, the front tooth out and maybe
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: get the truth out of him.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: She is a bad people.
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I agree, Nancy, that took some doing.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Joining us.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Now the two defense attorneys, the so called miracle workers
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: that somehow got a killer a sweetheart deal and managed
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: to convince a judge to go along with it. I
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: don't know what prosecutor thought this was a good idea.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Frank Pietro joining us defense attorney for Courtney Clinty at
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: the Preeto Law Firm, and Sabrina Piglisi, also defense attorney
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: for Pliny. Straight to you, Sabrina, she will walk most
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: likely in less than eighteen months, while he is in
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: a casket forever. How did you do it?
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting you say that, Nancy, because it seems
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: like the public wants to say maybe she got this
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: because of the color of her skin or because of money.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: But as a former prosecutor, you know they don't give
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: these kinds of deals to just anybody. It's because of
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: the evidence in this case, and it seems like that's
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: overlooked all the time. As to the evidence.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: What evidence.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: There's plenty of evidence to show, Sabrina.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: What evidence supports a cheap play?
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, text messages, he was abusive, she was a battered
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: spouse for many years. There were text messages to show
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: he battered her. There are medical records. We have the
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: premier expert in battered spouse. So what evidence is there
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: on the other side. That's what I'm asking, Because you
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: know the Miami Dade State Attorney's Office, they are not
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: afraid to try cases. They try cases all the time,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: and so this is not a deal sweetheart deal as
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: you say, it's because the evidence supported this deal.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Man, ask your question. You said they were married. Is
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: that true?
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: No, they weren't married. I use the word battered spouse
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: just as that's the terminology that first started. It's really
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: now I think that partner syndrome. Yes, is the proper terminology.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Right right, it's battered spouse was back in law school,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: is battered partner. So you have a text that's interesting,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: do you have Well, you say a text. I don't
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: know who sent that text, and it has not been
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: evidentiarily proven in court who sent that text or what
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: it really shows. That would have happened at trial if
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: you had tried to introduce it to Frank Pietro joining
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: US defense attorney also for Courtney Clinty. Obviously they had
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: to tag team to pull this one out of their.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Pocket.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Frank, does it concern you at all that with her
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: history of violence, she'll do this again as soon as
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: she walks free.
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: Absolutely not, Nancy. This young lady, as my co counselors
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: POOPLICI said, has suffered abuse at the hands of her abuser.
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: She's started the path to recovery from her PTSD, so
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: she's learning how to deal with it and her.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: PA dr PTSD. Did you say she's got PTSD, Yes,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: she does.
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: I mean, clearly this was a traumatic incident. Use pricing
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: the videos for crayling Chrish in her arms while he's bleeding.
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: Uh yeah, that that's something that that would scar and
• 36:16
  Speaker 6: traumatize anyone.
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: I don't know what the opera chance of your emergency one?
• 36:26
  Speaker 8: The one thing, ma'am, listen to me.
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: You need to stop streaming on the line and excuse me.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: The address?
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: One God taking my arms?
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: One one.
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: On my arm?
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: What, ma'am, My boy, ma'am?
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: What is the address?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: What's okay? Please?
• 36:52
  Speaker 12: God?
• 36:52
  Speaker 9: Bleed comes to.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Anything?
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: Shoulder down?
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: What do you mean? He has a step one on
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: his shoulder, man, and he's bleeding from his shoulders. Anyhow
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: right now?
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: Exactly what.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: If is he away?
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: Hello?
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Hello, string, I need you to get out of okay,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: let's hold, let's move.
• 37:50
  Speaker 12: Where do I go?
• 37:50
  Speaker 8: Where?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: And just no, no, no, they won't mind.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: They will just bring him out here.
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: I'm asking as a person, please bring me.
• 38:00
  Speaker 10: Have the dog outs for.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: Forget.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: But I'm covered in.
• 38:12
  Speaker 8: What's going on?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I'm covered in blood. It makes me look bad.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Frank Pietro, he's dead, and she's worried about how she looks,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: and she also keeps apologizing, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: sorry to her dead boyfriend. Why is she worried about
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: how she looks?
• 38:35
  Speaker 6: Well, clearly the police have her detained, she's handcuffed. She's
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: not understanding why they're handcuffing her because she acted in
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: self defense. So being covered in blood obviously has a
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: bad optic to the police. But she's just trying to
• 38:50
  Speaker 6: explain why she is covered in blood.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said that. Robert Crispin joining us
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: outside the murder scene bad optics. At that moment, she
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: is worried about bad optics, says her defense attorney, and
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Pietro and Piglisi are not amateurs. They've tried a lot
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: of cases, and they just said, yes, she knew it
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: was bad optics for her to be covered in his
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: blood with him lying dead.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does look bad because it is bad, Crispin.
• 39:30
  Speaker 9: Yeah, well what you're seeing there, Nancy on those body cams,
• 39:33
  Speaker 9: these statements I don't think helped her at all.
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: I understand where this is.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it will never see them because the
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: state entered a cheap plea. She also says to doctor
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: jan Gorniac quote, he was like squirting blood her words,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: not mine, doctor Gorniac, And that would be because of the.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Insult to his artery.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: She sliced his artery and as the heart continues to pomp,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: it squirts the blood out of the body.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: They're absolutely correct. And as I was listening to the
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: nine one one call, he said he was stabbed in
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: the shoulder. That solidifies that. I think he was stabbed
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: in the neck. And you're right, he's squirting. That means
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: that arteial bloods. Every time his heart beats, blood is
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: going to be squirting, squirting out. And I'm not sure
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: what was going on before, if they were at a
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: high energy state, running around whatever, But when you're in
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: that state, your heart rate is higher, so therefore you're
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: going to be losing blood a lot quicker.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: So that makes more sense.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: But that's still the most personal injury.
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: If they're saying to you or really good.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: That's important up close and personal, doctor Gorniat, because her
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: story is she threw the knife at him from standing
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: beside the fridge several feet away.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: That was a lie. But here listen to what she
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: says happened.
• 41:12
  Speaker 6: Okay, down to sit down?
• 41:16
  Speaker 8: So what happened?
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I don't even I'm like overhead to talk.
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: I love you like more than like, so what happened
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: to me?
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: That we're here?
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: So I broke it up with him about a week
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: ago and then today again like.
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: We were smart getting along kind of it.
• 41:34
  Speaker 8: Like I just like I said, we're breaking up again.
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: So you guys trying to get back to good?
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, because I'm like I want to marry him.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: I love it right that I think that you can change,
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: I can change whatever.
• 41:47
  Speaker 6: And he just said sorry, doing something wouldn't do me.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: And I said, you know what, we're over and I
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: walked away and you pinned me.
• 41:55
  Speaker 6: To the wall.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: He be against the wall, met the ground. It was choking,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: and so I got at and called her mom and I.
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: And then.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: And I.
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: Don't because I was scared. I'm asking your hand a knife.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Larry Sea Were joining me, investigator reporter, CBS News Miami.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Did I just hear her say in the midst of
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: all of her terror, she did not leave the apartment.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: She got on the phone with her mother and had
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: a conversation.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: You did hear that?
• 42:39
  Speaker 8: And exactly what Christian and Boselli's family says also happened
• 42:42
  Speaker 8: is she called her mom, then she called downstairs to
• 42:44
  Speaker 8: building security and then called nine one one. That has
• 42:48
  Speaker 8: given them a great degree of anguish because they feel
• 42:51
  Speaker 8: like that obviously shows someone who was not trying to
• 42:54
  Speaker 8: get the best care as quickly as possible for this
• 42:58
  Speaker 8: boyfriend that she lived with, that she loved. And they
• 43:00
  Speaker 8: told us also yesterday that Christian had sent texts through
• 43:04
  Speaker 8: his phone stating and he believed his love for Courtney
• 43:08
  Speaker 8: Clinney would end his life.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Two Frank Pietro and Sabrina Pittalussi joining us. I've had
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of murder cases where of course was representing
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: the victim and the victim's family, where victims have foreshadowed
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: unwittingly their own death. For instance, in one domestic I
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: don't know why we still call it domestic homicide, the
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: wife Patricia was so afraid that she told her best
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: friend where the key was, her emergency key, where she
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: hid it in her pocketbook, about where all her jewelry was,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: where all her important papers were in case her husband
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: murdered her, and he did. I've had it over and
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: over again. So is that correct Sabrina? That before his
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: death he texted his mother and said, loving her he
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: would end up dead.
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: Was a text to the mother. I do know what
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: you're referring to, but I don't think it was a
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: text to the mother. But it's easy, Nancy, to show
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: these snapshots that you have. What was it? It was
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: a text or a letter that he wrote that Yes,
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: he does say his love going to kill me, but
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: it also is taken out of context because to me,
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: when I read it, taking all the evidence around that
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: time frame, it is an emotional plea because he feels
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: emotionally like the relationship is going to kill him, and
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: not literally, but emotionally. And so I think it's easy
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: for you to take these snapshots you've shown. These are moments.
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: But this is not all the evidence. The mister hanm
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: Field has not portrayed the evidence correctly. The timing of
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: phone calls that is not correct. The evidence meaning security
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: reports and the phone records support differently. So it's easy
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: to make these assumptions except the evidence when taken completely,
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: you can see this was justified and that's why we
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: got the deal we did.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Do you are you familiar with our expert doctor Jane Gorniac,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: She was a medical examiner in Vegas, and she says
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: that there is no way, no way that your client
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: could have thrown an eye and it went that deeply,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: severing an artery in the victim's body.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: That is a lie.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: Well, our defense means, why would she had did she
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: have the opportunity to inspect the body? Our expert Emmy
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: says differently. Experts can easily say different things. I mean, one.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: You could just answer one thing, how deep was the wound,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Miss pig Lacy, How deep was the wound in the
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: victim's body.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: I believe it was eight centimeters.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: And eight centimeters is.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: And what I can tell you is we have expert
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: knife throwers. I myself have thrown a knife into the
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: carcass of a pig three inches.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: So you just say you were going to bring on
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: expert knife throwers.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: We were, Yes, absolutely they were if you look.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: At our.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Expert knife thrower, because otherwise that would be completely irrelevant.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: I might the knife person to throw a knife and
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: have it go three inches into someone's body.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: Have you ever thrown a knife, Nancy, Because I have,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: and I'm not an expert, and it did go into
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: the knife car into the pig carcass three inches. So
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: it can be done. There are experts that say it
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: can be done. It is not likely, it is not probable,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: but it is possible. And you and I both know
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: that all you need is possible all possibility.
• 47:19
  Speaker 7: That is reason.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: That's not true.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: The standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt, not
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: a possibility, not a.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Whom my reasonable possible doubt, but beyond.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: A reasonable doubt to say it's possible. It's possible. Miss Peglici,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: the little green man from Mars came down and stabbed
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: him dead. It's entirely possible. Is it probable?
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: No, it's not, And you yourself just said it's possible.
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: Not my burden of proof, it's the state's burden of you.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: You are so right about that. You're right, and I
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: should be telling, reminding everyone that Sabrina Piglisi and Frank
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Pietro have done what I consider to be practically the impossible.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: They got a cheap plea for this woman. That's not
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: easy to do. It takes a lot of work, a
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: lot of convincing, but they did it. Am I happy?
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: No?
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Am I congratulating them. No, it's kind of like patting
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: the devil on the back saying good job. But in
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: their world this is a major win. They got a
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: woman facing life behind bars. I get out a jail
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: free card. It ain't over yet, and we wait as
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: justice unfolds. And tonight we remember an American hero, Trooper
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Nicholas Clark, New York State Police, just twenty nine, shot
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: in the line of duty, too young to have a
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: wife and a family, leaving behind grieving parents Teresa and Anthony.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: American Trooper Nickola Clark.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Guests, especially our special guests, Frank Pietro and Sabrina Piglisi.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Another feather in their cap, and thank you to you
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: for being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: but God willing, I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: good night.