Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Marine Biology With Dr Yanasivan Kisten | The Christian Reeve Podcast #151

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Marine Biology With Dr Yanasivan Kisten | The Christian Reeve Podcast #151 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
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podcast. Today's guest is a marine
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biologist and postdoctoral researcher all the way from
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South Africa. Is name is dr.
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Jonas of, and Kristen. Welcome to the show.
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How you doing? I'm doing well, thanks.
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Can call me young ass youngsters, fun, yanis, you got
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it. Let's just jump straight into it
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because I know sometimes I like to have a little bit of an
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introduction or whatever, but I just want to get straight into
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the nitty-gritty. What inspired you to pursue?
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A career in marine biology. Couple of things.
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I think one of the main ones is my dad used to work in the Navy
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here, Durban South Africa. So I spent a lot of my suppose
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young formative years on the Naval Base fishing, sometimes on
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boats around the marine environment in general, I'm
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spending more time, going out to the beach and fishing and stuff
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and the other was probably from Watching like Sunday
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documentaries like National Geographics and stuff like that.
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Which kind of inspired me to pursue that career G.
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Say the growing up in the naval. G lived on the Naval Base was
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that right? Or is it just a father in the no
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no, no, no, my dad just used to work there but we lived off the
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base here it have like a profound impact on you as far as
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when you sort compare your experiences to other people you
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know? Maybe.
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Different backgrounds and upbringing slut.
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Would you say it had a profound impact on you sort of as you
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were growing up and then later in life or was it just you know,
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just a different experience. Yeah, I think did have somewhat
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of a impact of my growing up and yeah, things difficult to kind
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of avoid because I think a person's like identity gets like
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wrapped up in it and they kind of passed a dawn.
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Two other members of the family. So, like I had a very, I
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wouldn't say, like, super militaristic upbringing but it
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was kind of they were influences here and there that I don't
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think I would have experienced. Otherwise there anything in
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particular that comes to mind. Was it like strict?
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So, a stricter rules that mostly used to or something like that.
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Yeah, I think there was a little bit of strictness early on and I
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think, I think it was that sustainable because it didn't
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like the last very long, but there were things like, we need
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to keep things tidy and neat and like, makeup beds in the morning
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and stuff like that, and be able to recite our times tables.
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And all of that kind of stuff. And education was really
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important and put it at the Forefront to our childhood for
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me and my siblings. And then let's bring it back to
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biology. So you said that you know
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growing up you to kind of watch like little documentary stuff
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like that. Like what would you say is there
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a particular moment? Do you think when you were kind
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of like okay I definitely want to pursue this.
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This is definitely what I'm interested in doing, or maybe
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like a particular person. You met someone, you looked up
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to like, what were the kind of key things that kind of LED you
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up to the decision, okay. This is What I want to pursue
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with my life. Yeah, it kind of is stalled out
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but actually I think even earlier want to be a
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paleontologist. Oh as I was watching a lot of
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like dinosaur documentaries Walking with Dinosaurs and stuff
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like that. And then I remember going to the
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Natural History Museum here in Dublin and being totally
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frightened of the of the T-Rex that they had on display and
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they kind of fell by the wayside for a couple of years.
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And later on as the selecting, like other types of
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documentaries, this is one economy with the documentary who
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wasn't but it gets one seen that a couple of marine biologists
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were like on a boat like tagging Wales and stuff.
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And I think that's probably the earliest memory of me deciding
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that or did something I would like to do, like, be out and
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about taking Wheels, never got to do that and I don't really do
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that kind of research, but it's probably my earliest memory of
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Of deciding that this is the type of work going to get into.
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And what what can you tell us about your research so far?
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Look how long you been studying it.
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Now I've only been in the field. Depends where you gonna go,
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where you gonna start? We have like, what is the
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starting point? Because I've been, like, on the
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spot since I was like, eight years old, like I've been
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wanting to be a marine biologist since then, but started a
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suppose undergrad in about 2007 and started like, postdoc around
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2010. So it's been Yeah, it's been a
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good decade now since I've been a proper like academic, kind of
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like not in training and doing like research so they too Were
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Ten solid years since of. Yeah, been around doing stuff
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and my work mostly revolves around looking at how
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environmental changes affect the kind of health of animals.
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So I look at weather changes and how salty the Is affects how an
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animal would survive, or Thrive, or things like temperature
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changes, everything stuff, like global warming, that sort of
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thing. I also looked at things like
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pollution to some degree like heavy metals in the water and
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hot toxic they can be. So I'd really look at how our
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environmental environment changes and how that then
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affects an animal health and physiology. but given the, you
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know, global warming and pollution is I mean, they're
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they're hot fucking hot button topics and you know, There is a
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considerable amount of work that's being done.
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Supposedly to reduce the environmental supposedly in a
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you know, in some cases that there are some major changes
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that have sort of happened and over the course of the.
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So the last 10 or 15 years, even little things like just, you
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know, better recycling, stuff like that but given that, you
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are studying the environment specifically marine biology Is
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there any particular things that stand out for you?
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As far as? How the environment is changing
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and how it's affecting the habitats of fish.
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And you know like is there any major shifts that you could sort
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of share with us that you've noticed?
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Well, the there's a lot since it's impossible to kind of
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separate out, exactly how much impact human beings have on the
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environment and the animals that live there.
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It's kind of Something's we're still.
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Like even learning about that. We didn't quite know we were
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doing and for sure things like, you know, just fishing and
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overfishing have a direct impact and then you have things like
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Changes in temperature, which can for some cases.
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Like, when it comes to corals, which can move like, if they end
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up in conditions that aren't that great for them to live in,
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they might just die and just go away with other type of animals
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that can move around, or at least they can disperse, then
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they are changes in how that, where they are distributed.
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So, like when it comes like South Africa, we are All seen
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instances where fish are kind of move, moving closer to the poles
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because the it's getting too hot for them near the tropics.
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And so, it's one of those things we had to change our
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distribution. We it's, we are losing species,
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either Jutsu or fishing or climate change, and there's
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unexpected things, like just us taking water, like, from a
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river. For agriculture or industry and
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not leaving enough water to go down the river, in which case
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something's kind of need that water for their environment,
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that is the environment, you know, and sometimes things like
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Rivers get closed off from the ocean.
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And in that case, some animals cannot have access because some
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animals, particularly fish and some like invertebrates need.
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Like to get into an S3 or over for part of their life.
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So if you think about like salmon or like eels and stuff,
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so if they aren't able to get in, then they can't complete
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their life cycle and their populations began declining.
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There's just so much things like, I could such analyst flag
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for quite a while, like, individual types of things.
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So it's a continual learning process.
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And you also like, can't say that it's Will Doom and Gloom
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because they are significant things that people are doing.
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And I wouldn't necessarily say that like, it's game over
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already, but although we do get like timelines every year.
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That's a, you know, like it's going to be a couple years and
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then it's always going to be a couple years.
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And it's go which I think is important because you kind of
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have to like light a fire on the either people or governments to
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to start doing stuff. On the other end, like like
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Evolution has created like checks and balances, within
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itself to try and keep in equilibrium.
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So there are things in nature that help would being more
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adaptable to certain situations. And we are learning about that
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type of stuff as it goes. But it's like, it differs
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throughout different areas around the world.
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Like, if you look at the Great Barrier Reef, like, Global
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warming is terrible day. Just kills a lot of corals, but
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then different Coral species have different sensitivities to
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it. So you get like a change in what
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type of animals you will. You will see or they just move
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around. But obviously we like to I think
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as people who are going to ecology and biodiversity in
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general we like to we want to hold onto as much biodiversity
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as we can but I don't think we're in a place yet where we
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can start like reversing things. There's a lot of work that needs
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to be done, but that's not to say that that nothing is being
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done. I think a lot of people are
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trying their best and there's always room for improvement, but
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that doesn't mean we need to Discount.
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Everything that's being done because we haven't saved the
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world yet, so it's a process. Well, what do you make of the
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efforts that are being made? I mean, let's let's focus it.
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Quickly on your field. So with in Marine Biology and
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the Sea and the ocean do. What do you make of the efforts
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that are being Put into place to sort of counteract, the damage
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that we are causing and, you know, specifically what, how is
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it in South Africa? I was like, what were your
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thoughts on that by our efforts? Yeah, South Africa has the good
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side to South Africa is kind of like legislation.
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Like we have a lot of kind of governmental push for doing
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better, things that includes having like brain.
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Protected areas which is like, you know, so winning awful or of
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like the ocean or reverse just to conserve the kind of problem
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is that even though on paper like we have a lot of good stuff
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written down the kind of enforcement of that legislation
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and laws and rules and regulations is not as ideal as
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as it could be. So there's it's very complicated
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when it comes to things. Like Katie, how much rights do
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we give to people how much rights to give to, like
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companies, how much rides to get to like Agriculture and
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Industry, and to their environment itself?
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So now we do have a push for having like ecosystem rights.
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So, an ecosystem could also have the right to sudden things like
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the right to like a clean habitat with the right to a
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freshwater in the case of estuaries where I work.
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Which I think is a really good things because that's wording
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that we use as people like you say a person has rights, that's
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understandable. So, in ecosystem, having rights,
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I think is a good idea. That's a good, good push for
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things and you are we I think we just passed legislation or at
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least a promise to protect a lot more about Coastline now and
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it's up to a good percentage. So, There's definitely stuff
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going on happening, at least on paper, but it's always like in
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the fields, things don't always necessarily translate.
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So, yeah, that's kind of the situation of these, from, from
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what I'm seeing, I think the Outlook is, is good.
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They just need to be willing and enforcement.
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Okay, so Sharon and I want to bring it back to just your
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suppose involvement with marine biology in your thoughts and
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feelings on the field in general, what are some of the
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biggest discoveries that you've come across within your research
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into marine? Biology Both my my research
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isn't like super like groundbreaking anything movie.
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Certainly, I don't do undo anything in like, genetic so
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everything like that, where people are making big
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discoveries. My research has more to do with
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the life cycles of fish and those can be like economically
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important fish like fish that we catch to eat or recreationally
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and some of the major things that I do has to do with
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Important. The river flow is and kind of
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what is in like the water that helps fresh and part of it is
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kind of these chemical cues that drain from the river into the
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history out of the seed. That attract these baby Fisher's
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into the history to so that they can foot live out their life
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cycle and then go back out to the ocean to Spawn.
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So one of the big discoveries that I made that story that
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hasn't been published, yet I'm still working on, is how
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important these odors from their habitat is that gets washed out
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into the ocean and attract them. Other than that, I do have done
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a lot of work in how the effects of black drought has an impact
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on And fish. So when there's a drought, it's
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high temperatures and high evaporation and that tends to
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evaporate out of the water. And so the water get salty and
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salt shakers. The salt gets left behind and
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the water gets like sent out into to the atmosphere.
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So I've done some work about Eddie's for my test species
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about how resilient they are and it's basically the species that
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I have the cape stop knows a kind of like the Cockroaches,
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some of the of the history, the oceans, they pretty bulletproof.
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So it means that they fairly resilient.
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So when it comes to to what communities of fish, they're
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going to be around. They kind of adds to a
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prediction. We can If things do heat up in
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the future, what would our fish communities in entries are going
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to look like other than that? It's, I think a lot of work that
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I do is confirming stuff that is mentioned already literature
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that hasn't been like properly tested.
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So it's because in in science, like a part of science is being
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completely novel, like sure you try and do something completely
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news for you. You go out and have an
17:33
observation about nature and be like, I think this is happening
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in nature because of this, but I'm not sure.
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So I'm going to take some data and I'm going to test it out and
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I'm going to find the answer, right?
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And so that's one whole set of signs.
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The other set of signed is that like we have to then go and
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retest that thing and see whether you can actually get the
17:59
same results again. Because because Incest to be re
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testable. That's why we write out all of
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these papers with all of our results.
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So that another scientist can then go and retest to confirm
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their results. And don't think it's one of
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those things that I don't think is put at the Forefront.
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When people at least bought black, the scientific method,
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and how like Academia and science actually works, and it's
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also one of the things that's difficult to get funding for
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because you like, I'm just going to go copy.
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What that guy does give me money for that?
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Yeah, it's more difficult but it is an important part of science
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because human inside you can't just take anybody's word for
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anything because make sure that you are confirming as much as
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possible, as much as you need to, whether something is
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actually happening in nature, we can agree about it.
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I've had a few academics on the show over the past, well, close
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to two years now and I always like to ask them about what the
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academic Community is like, what?
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It's like to be an academic because you always get
19:07
interesting opinions on that and even within what you're talking
19:10
about there, you know, pursuing funding and stuff is such a
19:13
massive part of being an academic.
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But what is the academic Community like, in South Africa?
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What have been your experiences, good and bad.
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And yeah, what can you teach us about that?
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The top one because it looks very different depending on
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where, in University, the area, how much funding they get.
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And so there it is a very diverse country, use a lot of
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different kind of people that live here.
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So it's tough to say unless you want to be more specific in our
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sport specific things, my general Outlook about Academia
19:52
is probably there, we wasn't what I was expecting.
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Ted, when I decided that what should be a scientist and I
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think it has changed. Well, what did you eat?
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Is what did you expect when you first came in?
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I think I expected there to be a lot more like fieldwork and not
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having to worry too much about like being in an office and
20:15
doing anxiety, things, and statistics and sure, I was like
20:20
eight years old at the time. So obviously, I have
20:22
misconceptions about science. And also, just some some things
20:28
in Academia, even though, like like you creating new knowledge
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right, there means that the tools and stuff that you're also
20:36
using a kind of like new and up to date.
20:38
But the entire sometimes the system of Academia, the
20:41
institution of Academia is actually like outdated sometimes
20:45
and they are these kind of traditions that are kind of set.
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Everything about like things like graduation.
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So everybody's like dressed up like Harry Potter and like
20:55
getting bombed Go ahead and like, okay this is this is
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interesting is so they all some thinking there are kind of stuck
21:05
in the past and but some of that is changing now.
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But I don't think I could deem your progresses as much as human
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culture does. If you think about like just
21:18
modern society and how it has changed.
21:20
So quickly, even the past like few years, if you think like
21:24
something about something like social media, Media like only
21:27
like recently how we getting like science podcasts like they
21:32
might have been a couple or a few, there were out for a long
21:36
time but like it's only in the past few years that you
21:39
scientists are starting Port calls to, you know, broaden the
21:44
reach and you know it's like like Twitter is a big thing in
21:50
Academia but Twitter is like an old social media now but it's
21:55
only like nausea. Going to like pick up and it
21:57
comes to academics. I don't know.
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When like Academia is going to figure out like Facebook has
22:02
been there for a while and like Snapchat has come and gone.
22:05
I don't even know what the Academia even noticed.
22:09
And yeah, so like now we have things like Tick-Tock blowing up
22:12
and it's like Academia will probably only pick up on it like
22:17
after tick, tock is gone. It's like one of those things
22:21
where it's things only happen like in a research cycle, like a
22:25
private takes Like two years for scientists to think of an idea.
22:31
Like try to convince somebody to pay for it and then publish
22:34
their findings and then only the scientists would be like, okay,
22:37
maybe we should try that now but it's I think it's far too slow
22:43
for food. The way that's aside the rest of
22:45
society progresses. I mean, we still have a model of
22:50
print media which is you don't even think about that now.
22:53
And it comes to like news at least you Not like under the age
22:57
of maybe 40. So it's one of those things
23:01
where just the whole system of how it works tends to make it a
23:06
bit slow but also you don't want to be too fast because then you
23:11
like it's not as thorough as you would like science to be.
23:15
So it's kind of a thing. It's a thing now that modern
23:20
released young scientists are trying to figure out when it
23:23
comes to at least communicating the science to the public.
23:26
Because that's really important because the way we communicate
23:30
with each other is just like a written like paper, but the way
23:34
we communicate with the public that has to be the, yes, you
23:39
have to go to where the public is and you have to be able to
23:44
speak to them in a language that they understand and be able to
23:47
identify with them and you're so that kind of stuff is is
23:51
happening in is changing but sometimes I worry with it
23:54
happens. Fast enough.
23:56
It to like the academic way of doing things.
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I think you raise a really good point, and I think it comes down
24:05
to a willingness and a commitment to communicating that
24:09
message. For example, actually follow
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someone on Tick, Tock, who is training to be a marine
24:17
biologist and she's like, really, you know, just into it
24:21
and, and she's done it in a clever way.
24:23
Where, you know, she'll follow Trends should be like, sitting
24:26
Any little things, but everything that she does every
24:29
video without fail is about marine biology in some shape or
24:33
form, they'll be like a fact in there, a tidbit, whatever.
24:36
And if you look at all of the comments in there, they're all
24:40
either asking questions or their other people studying marine
24:43
biology or whatever. The case may be, and it's all
24:47
within the context of this this app, which is just essentially
24:50
for fun. But it seems to be that a lot of
24:52
the people that are making use of this.
24:56
Social media to not just people studying but also I've seen a
24:59
few academics who, you know, they'll they'll answer questions
25:03
or they'll or they'll share, you know, bits and pieces of what
25:06
they're looking into and stuff like that.
25:09
So think it's like comes down to a willingness to share and also
25:13
taking the time to understand how this format works.
25:15
Because as you said like Academia, yes, move slowly.
25:18
And it's the same in every field.
25:20
Like for example, when I studied management marketing at
25:23
University, I was kind of a little bit.
25:26
Dumbfounded about how there were all these different methods and
25:30
theories and working theories on how you could apply these
25:34
Concepts to everyday life. But then they were even things
25:39
that you just wouldn't use anymore because they've had
25:42
their time. And we've already proven that
25:43
they're just not effective anymore or they would be things
25:46
that I'll great on paper but when you, you know, play them to
25:51
a real world situation, they just don't apply and that's
25:54
okay. That's just one that's why I'm
25:55
filled that's marked in a bit different but it always kind of
25:58
confused me. How there would be all this time
26:01
and effort money spent on these things that, you know, as you
26:06
say it takes, time to find that research.
26:11
Actually get it to the testing phase and then release it and
26:14
publish it in whatever and by the time it's published it's
26:16
like how relevant really is this like it's outdated already.
26:21
Well yeah I mean I think, I think one good thing is that
26:24
now, at least journals are based on line you've got like digit
26:28
digitized versions. And from what I understand most
26:33
journals are like a continuous never-ending thing that you'll
26:36
have like sections of the journal and stuff but it's
26:39
basically a continuous never Anything, you always add to.
26:44
So I think maybe one aspect of this, that would work, or maybe
26:48
we might be useful, would be if there was somehow like an open
26:55
door for the public to see research as it's going, not just
27:00
not just for the public, but also academics academics.
27:03
If there's an open door where you can kind of, View I suppose
27:08
in real time what someone is doing and stuff, like maybe that
27:11
might even help research because it's like, you know, throughout
27:14
the course of carrying out you can assist and, you know, Point
27:19
people in different directions. And so, I mean, I don't know.
27:21
I'm I don't really know what I'm talking about, but in theory,
27:24
it's yeah, no, I mean, it's going to fall from University,
27:31
to University Department to department, they always for you,
27:34
too. To actually see what certain
27:39
Departments of scientists are doing.
27:41
There are some scientists that do like you said, like doodoo to
27:46
talk, or live-streaming, depending on like what they what
27:52
they are doing. Like they probably figure out
27:54
some format that works for them that they can share.
28:00
So thing it's got to do more with like ever scientists
28:03
decides that they do want to share They work.
28:08
They just need to pick a format that works for the work and
28:11
works for them and kind of create content or the other side
28:18
of that is that scientists are very busy, bunch of have a lot
28:22
to do. There's a lot of science do,
28:24
there's a lot of papers to write.
28:26
So, I mean, I've got at least ten papers Elite to get rid of
28:29
the next couple of years, is funding you to apply for.
28:33
Like, if you're a lecturer and stuff for profit, Professor used
28:37
to teaching and it's a lot. So asking a scientists then go
28:42
and communicate the science. And top of that is a big ask
28:48
kind of makes sense, because you do want to close the loop
28:51
especially like on taxpayer money because the people are
28:53
funding the work and you want to try and give back.
28:58
So I think the other side of that is for departments and
29:01
universities or research issues to hire Social media managers
29:06
and marketers, especially young people have a handle on the
29:13
newer platforms, how you them to to help the scientist all to
29:18
create content. So that you do have somebody
29:22
full-time working on, getting the message out there because
29:27
scientists probably can't do it. Unless that's something that
29:30
they really, really like want to do.
29:33
So it's a 24 thing. And it always comes down to will
29:37
funding money or whether you want to do it.
29:41
Well, speaking of creating content and podcasts which you
29:45
saw highlighted earlier, you have your own podcast, it's
29:47
called geek, Oscar be 101, which I was here, as you can see, with
29:52
your hat, there for those listening, he's wearing a hat,
29:55
he's wearing the merge, he's got the mutt really works, cause
30:01
it's just a customer had to made for myself and everyone.
30:03
They were get, we one day we get too much.
30:07
Yeah, you cosplay. 101 is like to say to science.
30:12
Story and geez. I'm forgot my own tag line and
30:16
Clay podcast. So I basically look at different
30:20
ways that people scientists science journal science
30:24
communicators, can communicate science in interesting and fun
30:28
ways like podcasting or creating Tech talks or just YouTube
30:32
channels or anything like that. So that I can for one kind of
30:40
give other scientists And other signs, communicated ideas about
30:43
how they can communicate their science.
30:47
But also on other hand for people who are already engaging
30:51
with that kind of material to kind of find new people to like
30:55
follow. So it's kind of like a signal
30:57
boost and kind of like almost like a teaching type of thing
31:01
depending on the audience. So it's about how we can kind of
31:05
blend science story and play together or at least have a,
31:10
kind of a almost Academically looking to wear those kind of
31:13
Worlds, Collide because that's where I like to play around it.
31:17
Because as long as I want to be a marine biologist, I've also
31:20
been a geek in me playing video games and like watching fantasy
31:24
movies and reading and all of that stuff.
31:26
So it's kind of the line that's blurred in my life that I kind
31:33
of want to explore as well. So what's the format?
31:36
The setup like you have guests just on to talk about different
31:39
things? Is it just you lead in the show?
31:41
Show and going through things like talk to us a little bit.
31:43
It is it is it is an interview podcast.
31:46
So I find people I find interesting doing interesting
31:50
things in that space and yeah, interview them to see how they
31:55
were about it. How they got into science or how
31:57
they got into podcasting or playing D&D.
32:01
You live streaming web and how they incorporate that into kind
32:05
of either teaching or science communication.
32:09
So it's kind of a proposed by Graphical interview podcast that
32:15
different people on every week. Plastic, let's bring it back to
32:19
marine biology because I got many questions for you, but I
32:24
want to start with maybe something bit closer to your
32:26
heart. Why are you so passionate about
32:29
marine biology? Like what keeps you motivated,
32:31
and keeps you passionate enough to keep pursuing this and
32:34
studying this and making this your life.
32:39
Could you that's a tough one? Because we were kind of deep
32:44
passion has been waning over the past couple years when I when I
32:49
discovered science communication and the need for it.
32:54
I think my passion for science communication is kind of now
32:59
starting to Otway my passion for doing marine biology.
33:03
But I've always been interested in just learning about new stuff
33:06
and just reading about And some like knowing science facts and
33:11
so weird since I was a kid, so it's one of those things.
33:15
It's just part of me is difficult to to save like why
33:19
I'm passionate about it. I've just been in it since I was
33:24
eight years old, so good, 20 years now.
33:28
So like now it's more like it's just part of my life and part of
33:32
who I am. So yeah it's difficult to say
33:36
black what keeps me going? Right now, but I just always
33:41
loved marine. Biology always loved science,
33:43
always love learning new things. It's always about learning, new
33:48
stuff. Speaking about learning new
33:50
stuff and learning facts. What are some of your favorite
33:53
marine biology facts? Just have fun.
33:59
It's so fun to choose. There are just so many, so many
34:04
facts. I think, I don't know if this is
34:07
my favorite, but there was a thing recently, a tick tock
34:12
Trend, that is about like what's, what's one fact that you
34:17
kind of like just doesn't make sense when like, when you hear
34:20
it. So, I like Angel and the one
34:24
that keeps coming to like to my mind is that like Shocks have
34:28
existed on this planet longer than trees have.
34:32
So we've had shocks for more than freeze of ever existed on
34:37
this planet. And it's one of those things
34:39
that just it breaks your brain and you think about it, but it
34:43
is true. Then how to react to that, what
34:50
I mean? I suppose it brings a bigger
34:52
question, doesn't it? I mean I think in many ways I
34:56
got member years ago someone asked me like what would you
34:58
rather that what would be more fascinating to you you know
35:02
space or all the ocean, you know like there's like living on in
35:07
the ocean or living in space and I you know I gravitate towards
35:11
space but at the same time it was a hard decision because I
35:15
feel like There's so much we don't know about the ocean, the
35:21
sea, you know, life underwater like and there's only so far we
35:25
can actually study as well obviously because you know
35:28
there's only so far we can go before it's not safe for us to
35:31
be there anymore and you know for instance we know there's
35:36
there's various species that exist that we probably not even
35:39
familiar with. There's terrifying species that
35:43
we've managed to capture that exists, like, really far down.
35:48
Right, right? And I suppose, In a way, I mean,
35:53
surely that must be the first the first life Jeremy.
35:57
I like about this that I have a, you know, an interesting science
36:02
but I know nothing, you know, very peripheral kind of thing.
36:06
But to me has always made sense that of all the life that is
36:11
existed. It must have originated in the
36:13
sea and that's like, you know. Yeah and then that's one one
36:19
hypothesis. I think there's two big
36:23
hypothesis of where life could have came from right.
36:26
What kind kind of like three because like even on like our
36:31
planet there's two there's two main ways that we can generate
36:36
like energy or these biological matter out of nothing.
36:40
One of them is like photosynthesis and then you need
36:43
to be out in the sun for that to happen.
36:46
The other way is like chemosynthesis, which usually
36:48
happens on the ocean floor, like, what you were talking
36:51
about with, like hydrothermal vents and that sort of
36:57
hydrothermal vent environment. That's like, very like extreme.
37:01
Like you find a lot of bacteria that are just resistant to a lot
37:05
of feet and like pressure and like just stuff that stuff on
37:11
land would just be too weak to be able to handle.
37:15
They just drive out there and create entire communities folded
37:21
animals so I don't know if we know for sure but it is
37:26
potential that the chemo synthesis part could have
37:31
started. And then later on, we got the
37:34
the the photosynthesis but there's also like the pens.
37:40
By mere Theory, which is like, life could have originated
37:44
autumn in space and then let me be on an asteroid or another
37:49
world that got destroyed. And then the meteorite hit us.
37:54
And then we were kind of like impregnated with what new life.
38:00
So I think those are the three major ways of how life could
38:03
potentially come about. And I don't think I was
38:06
subscribed to any single one. That's I mean, that's not my my
38:11
field of expertise. And yeah, it is kind of one of
38:16
those things with like how like how do we know I can't like
38:20
Audrey. No, it's an extreme was a time
38:22
machine and go back in time which is probably not possible.
38:26
At least, not with today's technology.
38:31
It's for me, it's kind of all equal parts but then I haven't
38:34
read like the latest scientist on my field.
38:37
So I don't know. But I don't even for me, I think
38:43
the color of extreme chemosynthesis like hydrothermal
38:48
vents like the whole primordial soup kind of thing.
38:52
I lean more towards but yeah, kind of get away from me.
38:57
So I've never actually heard this term before I'll go.
39:00
Visit obviously heard of photosynthesis and the how that
39:02
works. It is hammered into my brain.
39:04
As I'm sure it was many of us from young young, young young
39:08
life, but yeah. What can he like, dumb it down
39:11
for us a little bit. What exactly is chemosynthesis
39:14
and how does it work? Yeah, yeah.
39:17
So like, you know, with photosynthesis like plants and
39:21
like, algae and stuff are using like sunlight to turn, like to
39:29
low carbon dioxide and oxygen into like, molecules that they
39:32
need like sugars to in order to like create energy and like
39:37
survive when it comes to the Deep in the ocean floor, there
39:41
are these things called hydrothermal vents which are
39:44
essentially like the top of like mini volcanoes.
39:49
It's spewing a lot. A lot of, like, chemicals into
39:52
the environment around it, and it's like really hot.
39:56
So, there are bacteria that have evolved to use, what coming out
40:02
of those events to then create energy and then create whatever
40:06
they need. And there's a lot of animals
40:10
that kind of have the symbiotic relationship with those bacteria
40:14
so that they can then also get the energy that they need.
40:20
So if you think about like these large, like worms that you found
40:25
near these like volcanic places, those have a lot of those
40:29
bacteria in them that are helping them like soft out the
40:33
water for the energy that they need and then you have the other
40:37
animals then go and feed on those things.
40:40
Seven creates a whole ecosystem around it.
40:43
So that's mainly the difference from from because there's no sun
40:47
anywhere near there, it's just all black and all dogs.
40:51
So they have to get the energy in a different way and
40:54
chemosynthesis the way they do it.
40:56
I love science man. It's so fascinating, isn't it?
40:59
It's just and the best thing about it it's like everything
41:02
else in life, the more you dig, the more questions you have, you
41:06
never get answers, you just get more and more questions.
41:08
Sometimes you get some answers. Has.
41:10
But then even then like amazing thing about science is you know
41:14
what you think, you know, in the moment 5-10 years, like 20 years
41:17
from now, I'll probably be all different way it goes.
41:20
And speaking of which, actually I wondered since you've been in
41:24
the field now, for just over ten years, what do you make of the
41:29
technology and the tools we have for studying marine biology
41:34
biology, like how have they changed over the course of that
41:37
time. And Well, I mean obviously the
41:42
technology is going to be better as far as like.
41:43
It's going to help us make more accurate discoveries and make
41:49
more informed decisions but overall like what how has it
41:53
progressed? Well, when it comes to my field,
41:58
there isn't really a lot that's that's different.
42:01
I think the basics of remain the same because when it comes to
42:05
basic level, what I do there's like a Biko physiologist or an
42:08
ecologist is that you just go out and you catch a bunch of
42:12
fish when you count them or you pick them back to the lab and
42:16
you look at aspects of off their health and when it comes to like
42:21
catching fish, like a net still works.
42:24
It's been working for a full century.
42:27
He kind of stole works. But when we are looking now, at
42:31
how officials health is, like probably like a century ago, you
42:35
were just looked at like that college shaped and like, with it
42:40
has like any like lesions or sores on it.
42:43
So anything that again. But now we can get down to an
42:47
intra cellular level and look under a microscope and like look
42:51
deep down on damage on a level that you could call.
42:55
Just can't See with you with your naked eyes or even on a
42:59
molecular level, we can see like whether they're being stressed
43:03
by releasing certain compounds having intracellular like damage
43:07
within their cells and things like reactive oxygen species.
43:14
Like if you know it like you know you know when it comes to
43:18
like cult you have certain foods that have like awkward like
43:21
antioxidants that that you eat full.
43:26
Those antioxidants are counteracting reactive oxygen
43:29
species, which is kind of what is released when an animal is
43:33
kind of stressed or they're in an environment that's damaging
43:37
like today cells and it's reactive, oxygen, species are
43:40
bad because they tend to like damage your DNA and that could
43:45
potentially then cause things like cancer something you don't
43:49
want. So we can measure things like,
43:53
reactive oxygen species. Now to give you a Correct, like
43:56
measure pulse dressed in animal is, and we can also measure
44:01
things like how your body is reacting.
44:04
Like we can measure how much of a protein is being released, or
44:07
you look like at how stressed you are, if you're hot your body
44:12
releases heat shock proteins, and we can go.
44:17
And we can sample like blood or tissue and see how much she
44:20
charged proteins are being released and can get a measure
44:23
of that in relation to to whatever.
44:26
Measuring for whatever animal, so things have gotten to like, a
44:29
very molecular level. Now, when it comes to looking at
44:34
what we call biomarkers, biomarkers are just things, are
44:37
we looking for about an individual's like health?
44:41
So biomarker could be like anything from like your blood
44:45
cell count, or even how fast you're, like, breathing or
44:50
ventilating all the way down to how much damage you were having
44:54
at your DNA level. Oh, so you're we've gotten all
44:58
the way down to, like, DNA protein level when it comes to
45:01
these type of things and now we can replicate DNA.
45:05
We can, we can code DNA. We can figure out, like, just we
45:12
can figure out a lot about what is going on in and more humans
45:16
body. At this point, it's actually a
45:19
while to think I've ever even go from here because we've got like
45:22
all the way down to the fundamental blocks, but there's
45:24
still always a lot. More work to do.
45:28
But when it comes to my work, I'm still in that space where
45:33
there's no real big Tech jumps just yet.
45:36
It's just depending on what you want to test for you kind of
45:39
have to do. It's more of like how much money
45:41
do I have to spend in? Then you decide like, okay, what
45:44
am I going to test? Because you have the budget for
45:46
it. So it's that kind of thing.
45:50
So sharing, what would you say are the biggest challenges
45:55
associated with being a marine biologist?
46:00
I think a big one, maybe you wouldn't kind of guess if you
46:05
want to round, is the weather because you need to go out into
46:09
the field and catch things, or at least, take measurements.
46:14
And if it's a terrible rainy day in might be more difficult.
46:19
So you need to kind of schedule your sampling around it, where
46:25
you could just be a hardcore and power through which is something
46:28
that when some people have to do So you could say it's General
46:34
whether General Logistics being able to pay for whatever you
46:42
need to do. So comes down to funding grants.
46:47
And then whatever it is, people involved with politics and
46:52
there's our economic. So we have the same kind of
46:54
problems at any large institution.
46:56
We have when it comes to a bureaucracy funding or anything
47:02
like that, it's mostly just people problems to the same kind
47:08
of problems you would have in any kind of kind of institution,
47:12
I think. Yeah if you're dealing with
47:16
people, you To deal with everything that other people
47:20
have to deal with when it comes to institutions and then you
47:23
also have to deal with with the world and the environment and
47:26
the animals and sometimes catching them, sometimes keeping
47:32
them alive is sometimes not easy for him to do.
47:34
So in a controlled environment, there's a lot of aspects you
47:38
have to talk on foreign control for.
47:43
It's gonna depend on what type of scientist you are.
47:47
And what exactly you're doing but really every day is a
47:50
problem. Sometimes it comes to being
47:53
being a scientist. If it is not there to then it's
47:56
finding Nikki like like your statistical analysis getting
48:02
that to work and learning new techniques because it is like I
48:06
said, earlier, you ordering sometimes things that have not
48:10
been done before and sometimes your to create like you to write
48:14
new pieces of code that no one has done before.
48:17
In order to analyze your data and stuff like that.
48:19
So there's constant challenges, I wouldn't be able to tell you
48:23
the next challenge because I probably don't know.
48:25
It yet, there's going to be one and it'll be a new one.
48:30
Thanks for sharing. What can you, what advice could
48:34
you give to aspiring meet marine?
48:38
Biologist? Spring marine, biologists.
48:45
I would say it's probably best to find the question that you
48:53
want to be answering for the rest of your life.
48:56
Wow like his. But is there a question that
48:59
it's just a cue that you don't know the answer for and you have
49:03
to know That's I think is the fundamental basis of scientists
49:10
research answering questions. You need for yourself to find
49:14
that question that you want to be the one to answer and you
49:17
could be answering for the rest of your life.
49:19
Because it's going to drive you to go through, like the dips and
49:23
the challenges and struggles this because it's going to be,
49:27
it's not a very glamorous life, it's not usually not a very
49:31
high-paying vocation, so you got to be super Passionate.
49:35
And I think one of the ways is to find something you really
49:39
want to answer. That only you can answer that.
49:41
You'll have fun on stirring. Thank the amazing advice.
49:46
Thank you so much. So, to tie a bowline, the marine
49:49
biology part of this podcast. I just wanted to ask you Walt.
49:55
Can marine biology teach us about life in general?
50:02
It's got the word biology and it, which means life of the
50:05
stadium life. So when it comes to to marine
50:11
biology like it's a marine biology, is one of the actually,
50:16
one of the more glamorous like scientific Fields, especially
50:20
like, when you're a kid, it seems like really like yeah.
50:25
It's like one of those like Rockstar kind of profession and
50:30
that's when a lot of people can't.
50:31
Fall out of it. I was one of those people who
50:34
didn't fall out of image, go all the way through but what it
50:38
basically helps teach us is just the importance of how this large
50:45
mass of water, and little masses of water Crossland, just how big
50:51
in big ways that affects us and it's not just there for sure,
50:55
you know, it really affects our everyday lives and we have to,
51:00
we have to conserve A bit to some level will not let things
51:04
run out of hand. Otherwise.
51:07
Yeah, it's going to be us. Just trying to, you know, keep
51:10
water in our hands. What it's like falling through.
51:12
It's going to be that point where we're not going to be able
51:15
to control it anymore. So I think it's a you just have
51:20
to remember like the ocean and sea is a bit.
51:24
Always been the tumultuous place for mankind ever since we began
51:30
exploring And moving across. And I think it's always gonna
51:34
remain that way even though, like, we have like big shots and
51:38
stuff that we can never get, no, we have to navigate just what we
51:42
have done to it, and how the sea is going to react in that way
51:46
because yeah, whatever. However, lies it's taken, does
51:50
for, I can take a lot more. Believe you me.
51:55
Brilliant stuff. Thank you so much.
51:58
What's the best advice you've ever received?
52:02
It's advice I've ever received. I don't know.
52:13
Remember this difficult one. I think, you know, for the
52:18
science one, that is difficult because I've always been very
52:22
independently comes to my career, but I think more, I'm
52:26
like this to social media content, creation side, like, if
52:30
you want to get better at something, it's probably just
52:32
best to just start doing it. I think a lot of people
52:38
especially people like me try to do kind of as much research Have
52:43
as much Theory and like know as much facts as we can about
52:47
anything before we do it. But some things just need
52:51
practice and doing to get better at and no matter how much, you
52:54
know, like in your head, like you just not gonna be able to do
52:59
it. Effectively until--, you've done
53:01
it a thousand times and, you know, going to do it a thousand
53:05
times on the stock doing it. So just start doing and become
53:09
was going to conjugation, just all Crete and you get, you get
53:12
better all the time. Time.
53:14
I couldn't agree more with that one.
53:15
Thank you. Yeah, another funnel question.
53:18
What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
53:25
the biggest life lesson that I've learned so far, I think, I
53:34
think for a lot of my life of being very like one track
53:37
minded, when it comes to to pursuing my goals and not being
53:44
kind of blocking out like having tunnel vision and blocking out a
53:48
lot of other stuff. But I think that sometimes
53:54
always comes to to to bite you in the back so you should always
53:59
You should always sometimes be open to changing course and
54:05
thinking about certain other things that can impact you down
54:11
the line. You know, I've had to educate
54:14
myself a lot about finances. So the past years because I've
54:18
been I've been too deep into the science and my pocket has been
54:24
slowly being left behind. So it's one of those things that
54:27
I now have to go. Go and research and play around,
54:30
but so while having a one track mind is really good for
54:35
advancing. You certain in certain ways.
54:37
I think sometimes you do have to, you do have to address some
54:42
of your your weaknesses. So I think me addressing some of
54:47
my weaknesses kind of a life lesson that I'm recently
54:50
learning and that we need to do and stuff as we draw things to a
54:56
close for today. Do you have any upcoming?
54:58
For some final thoughts that you'd like to share with our
55:00
listeners. I look towards the think we've
55:04
covered a lot of final thought type stuff.
55:09
I just think here, like we said earlier just like create some
55:14
always keep your mind. Yeah.
55:18
Like I think the idea of diversity needs to extend like
55:23
within yourself as well, you know, like just like do
55:27
different things, taste different things.
55:30
I think it's one of those things that I left In the back seat for
55:34
a long time, that I'm not buying, all the more I learn
55:38
your stuff and one of those is my podcast in my, my media
55:42
brand. So here I've been check that
55:44
out. You can go to because p.com have
55:47
a look there to interview scientists video game developers
55:52
just therapists like everybody involved in science.
55:56
Communication education in some kind of way.
56:01
Yeah. Can you check me out and
56:04
explore? I suppose excellent.
56:07
Yeah and I thank you so much for being on the show, being a great
56:11
guests for sharing. Thanks for having me.
56:13
Oh no. The pleasure is always mine.
56:15
It's always a lot of fun learning about someone's life
56:19
and their passions and everything and just yet being
56:21
able to question you on this field.
56:23
It's been brilliant. So I thank you so much and to
56:28
all the listeners of the Christian way.
56:30
Last. I hope you've enjoyed this
56:31
episode and as always be safe, be well and I'll see you in the
56:35
next one.