Latest / Authentic Living / Marion Grobb Finkelstein

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Marion Grobb Finkelstein · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
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about things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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It's Roxanne Jurhartach from the authentic living with Roxanne.
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This week, I have a friend, Marion Grove Finkelstein.
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And, Marron, thanks for being on the show again.
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Oh, it's great to be here, Roxanne.
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Always a delight to chat with you.
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So, Marion's, he's been in the field of speaking for a couple of decades.
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She's a workplace communication specialist and, you know, does a lot of keynote speaking and
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training.
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And recently, back in March, she relaunched her new book, which is a It's something I remember
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being around her actually visiting, and we were talking about the concept of the book, and it's
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something that I think has been in fruition for quite a long time.
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So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about the book, and then we're just gonna jump into it
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because I I think this is a book that all of us can use on an ongoing basis.
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So one of those things that we can all relate, to the concept of the book.
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So the the name of the book is called the finkel seed factor.
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AKA what to do when things go wrong because you know they will.
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So I think most of us can relate to that.
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Probably more often that we wanna, you know, say that we do.
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And there's a copy of the book there for anybody.
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Yeah.
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I can see the the video.
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So, Marianne, let's talk a little bit about kind of your, you know, your path into
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communication and, again, the book because I think that's the book has been a compilation of
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all the things, though, obviously, that you've done in your career.
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And kind of what the concept of the book is, and we'll talk more about the actual book.
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Well, my whole background has all been always been about communication and about people
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connecting and using communication as a tool to connect.
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And one of the things I found in working with clients nationwide is whenever there's a
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conflict of any sort or challenge of any sort, whether it's between people or between
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corporate goals, and people not needing them, or whether it's between your dreams, your
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aspirations, whatever it is, and not needing them.
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There's a communication piece in there.
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There always is.
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It begins with self talk.
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How you communicate with yourself, and it ends with how you communicate with other people.
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And so that seed has been there for decades.
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Honestly decades.
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And my whole background is as a a former director communication of international museums
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and or, excuse me, International Airports And National Museums And Federal Departments.
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I have a real good understanding across this country that even though this wonderful Canada
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is so diverse in so many ways, and that's what makes us so cool and neat as Canadians.
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We also have a lot of commonalities, and one of them is that we all have communication
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challenges, and we all have disappointments in our life, and we all can can benefit from
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building a little more resilience and having a few tools that can help us do that so that
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we're not struggling as much, and that's what that book is all about.
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So let's let's jump right into it because I would say that, you know, I talk on on
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resilience all the time and it's something that most of us would like to learn more about.
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So tell us about the Finkelstein Factor and tell them about the title because I remember
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you playing around with it and and it's actually kind of neat the way you came up about
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with the with the name.
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Just kind of tell them the concept on how it works with resilience.
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With in reference to the title.
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Sure.
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Of course.
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Well, the title is the finkelstein factor, and the title really kind of sis at all, as you
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mentioned in the intro, what to do when things go wrong dot dot dot because you know they
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will.
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Side.
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Things go wrong in life.
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They can be little tiny irritating things that, not a big deal, and they can be way up there
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big life altering things.
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We all deal with those.
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And so myself personally, as I mentioned, I lots of my clients have dealt with different
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things, different situations, workplace situations, and challenges.
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And I personally have encountered some as well as ensure you and every one of your listeners
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has.
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In fact, there's probably some people online right now who are dealing with a very difficult
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situation, and they don't quite know what to do about it.
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This book is all about don't give up.
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There are some systems in place here.
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That can help you just reshift the way that you think reprogram your mindset and give you a
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different perspective.
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You know, I I joke about how when I've come through a really rough time, I joke about how I
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can finally see a light at the end of that tunnel.
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And for once, it's not a train.
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That's what that book is about.
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It's getting rid of the train and it's providing a guiding light.
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And so what it does is it's very systematic It goes through different chapters of different
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steps, and they build on one another.
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You don't have to follow one chapter after another, but it it doesn't hurt.
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If that appeals to you, if that sings to you, then by all means, do it that way.
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It's it's actually written that way But I know some people are gonna jump to certain chapters
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that speak to them, and and that's perfectly fine too.
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It's very hands on with lots of exercises.
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And it really is comprised of 3 steps.
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The first step is about acknowledge the loss The second step is flipping a negative to a
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positive, and the 3rd step and possibly the toughest one is about letting go.
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And it shows us how to do that.
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And that that's tough, right?
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Because when you're going through a tough time, the in the instinct and all of for most of us
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is that we wanna kind of shut down and and and ready because we're we're oftentimes in pain,
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you know, when when we're going a tough time.
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And what we know basically was what you're saying is like like learning to look at it, and
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go of whatever pain it is, but when we're in pain, it's harder for us to look up.
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Yes.
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Very much so.
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When you're going through really, really difficult times, that social veneer gets ripped
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off.
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And what's in inside of each of us comes bubbling out.
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And it can be really not too nice.
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It can it can really look ugly.
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We all have sides of ourselves that when you're struggling, it's going to merve.
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It's going to morph your personality.
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Unfortunately, stress does that.
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And So what this book does is it it it encourages you.
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It it gives you a way to take that energy about bubbling anguish and agony and pain, and it
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helps you to funnel it in a more constructive productive way that's going to help and support
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you.
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So tell me tell me some of the the ways that you suggest that people funnel it.
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You know, because I think oftentimes it comes out like it's a tsunami or big ball.
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You know?
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And and then you think, oh, I shouldn't I shouldn't have I shouldn't have reacted like
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that.
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You know, I, you know, I needed more time, those types of things.
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Right?
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And in retrospect, I, you know, I think you know, most of us want to learn how to not have
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that that funnel cloud kind of falling us.
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So what kind of things in the book do you kind of suggest or exercises that people could
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potentially try to to have a different reaction, when they're that upset.
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Well, the first thing that I encourage people to do is to step back and look at patterns,
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look at what are your stressors, and to define what is it that's really, really bugging you
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right now.
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And just define the situation.
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Once you've defined the situation, though, what you do is you attach to that, a description of
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what's the pain of what it is that you feel that you're losing.
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What is it that threatens you about that situation?
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That's not acknowledge the the lost piece.
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And you know, a lot of us, we're so anxious to skip to the solution and to get out of that
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hurt place that we don't take that moment to just step back and really put words around what
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that pain, what that loss is.
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And and sometimes we don't want to do that because we think we we can't admit that there's
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pain.
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That, oh, I don't wanna say that I'm a law, that there's a loss.
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Oh, I'm gonna sound like, wear, wear, wear, buy a baby, not at all.
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Because it's by acknowledging and putting words around that pain.
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That is the very key to how you can help release it.
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That's the first step.
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So the first thing I would suggest to people is acknowledge the pain, define the situation,
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whatever it might be.
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It could be a bully boss.
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It could be a colleague that's just absolutely miserable to deal with.
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It could be a really difficult client.
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It could be a goal that you miss.
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It could be a job loss.
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It it could be anything.
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And when you dig deeper, ask yourself, why is that loss significant?
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What is it that you're really losing.
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It's not just the surface stuff.
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You know, when I do workshops on the Finkelstein Factor and the Flippet formula,
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that's what I call it, the second step about flipping the negative to the positive.
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When I do workshops about that and I ask people, what are some of the losses that you've
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experienced?
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There's certain categories that always come up.
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Some are workplace related for sure.
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And, some of those are things like job losses or job cuts or budget cuts.
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And what do you do with that?
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What's the loss of the job When you lose a job, lose more than a job.
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It's not just the job.
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You are losing confidence.
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You're losing contacts with colleagues.
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You're losing potentially future career moves.
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You're losing your your existing vision of what you thought your career path was going to be.
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You're losing the certainty that the day before you got laid off, you had.
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You're missing so many things.
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You're losing financial.
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You're losing your routine, and for some people, routine and process is so important and
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very comfortable for them.
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So I invite and encourage your listeners to think about what is it that they've lost
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recently?
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What is it that keeps them up at night?
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What is it that they find in those quiet morning moments when they're all alone?
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And they can't sleep.
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What is it that's running through their brain that they're thinking, oh, man, really bothers
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me and why.
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Ask yourself why.
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What is it that you've really lost?
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That's the first piece.
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Now you're not gonna stay there long.
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I'm gonna pull you out of that in that book.
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I'm gonna give you the the process to pull you out of that quick sand.
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However, it's really important that you just live in that spot for a moment.
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Face, embrace, and replace that pain with action as we move through the other exercises.
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Would you say that I mean, I I think as a society, we talk about sharing pain, but we're
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not we're not conducive to, you know, when you see someone.
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How are you doing?
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Oh, I'm great.
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Things are, you know, we don't we don't we don't create a space to say, hey, Roxanne, what
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really is going on?
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Because I think
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Oh, it's so right.
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We say, hey.
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You know, let's talk about it.
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Let's deal with it.
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Even in our personalized, but at work, it's even more of a taboo.
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Would you agree?
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I'll tell you something.
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And this is something that I share with all my clients across the country is people don't
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connect with perfection.
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People connect with people.
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And people are imperfect.
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It's those imperfect pieces that people relate to.
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Oh my goodness.
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You know why I talk about communications?
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Because I've messed it up lots of times, and I want to keep on learning.
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And I want to spare people those painful lessons that I've learned.
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That's honestly why I wrote that book.
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It captures so many of the systems and the thinking that I use in day to day life, I I
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wanted to pass that on to other people.
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But I think that we're at a place now Thankfully, where people are beginning to talk
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about the hurt.
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And a lot a large part of this is about mental health and mental wellness and mental illness.
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You know, we're not afraid to tell somebody, oh, I broke my ankle, but boy, we're afraid to
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tell somebody.
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Yeah.
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You know what?
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I needed a little coaching in life.
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So I went to a psychologist, psychotherapist.
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I went to a psychiatrist.
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I mean, holy cow, those people are part of your health team.
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Fantastic.
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I've been to all those people, and we'll continue to do so.
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Encourage people to do so.
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My goodness.
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There's lots of people on Murian's health team, and I encourage lots of people to be on your
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and your listeners, everybody's health teams talk about it because not excessively, but that
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is exactly how people will relate to you.
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And that's how you will help to enunciate what you're going through in doing so it might help
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somebody else put words to that feeling that ambiguous feeling that they're having, and they
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don't even know how to describe it.
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You describing it might help them do exactly that.
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You know, on the point of not sharing, it's so interesting because as professionals, your
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professional speaker as well, your professional, psychotherapist.
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There are so many people who will look to us and to all your listeners in their respective
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work roles and personal life roles as mother's fathers siblings, caretakers, and think holy
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cow, they are so good at what they do.
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And, wow, I really admire them.
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You'd be like that.
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And really when we connect with those people is when That perfect facade kinda chips off a
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little bit, and we see the real skin underneath.
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Like, these wrinkles here, they're real, baby.
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They're real.
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I've earned them, and I'm okay with them showing.
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It's okay to show your human side.
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I had a colleague say to me, couple weeks ago, I posted I was going through a really rough
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time.
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In fact, I've been redo my website.
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Eeks, anybody who's done that.
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Well, Roxanne, you and I have spoken on this topic.
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It ain't fun.
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It is so stressful.
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Yes.
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It will bring out every ugly side up here that you never thought existed.
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And Man, oh, man, I have called my computer things that I am embarrassed to admit.
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And so on Facebook, on my Facebook account, my Marion Speaks account, I went in there and I
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posted something about I was having a really rough time Does did anybody have any
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suggestions for a quick pick me up?
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Got lots of suggestions, and then I had a colleague write me personally a private
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message.
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And she said, not really sure you should be posting that type of stuff.
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You know?
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I don't know.
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And I wrote her back and said, I am all about being authentic, being genuine, being real, for
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me not to post when I need a little help, a little boost, a little lift, would not be
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sincere for me.
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It would be off brand for me.
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Mhmm.
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Mhmm.
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And I encourage everybody share.
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That's how people connect, and that's why you help yourself and others.
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Well, I I think that whole element of transparency or authenticity is key because
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what happens in workplaces, for instance, you know, I've been through multiple rightsizing
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downsizing resizing whatever you wanna call them.
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Yep.
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And it really depends on the temple of the people that manage you around you that allows
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you to cope in a different way.
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You know, I often say that the managers or the senior, we see suite above you if they say,
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This is kinda hellish.
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We're all in it together.
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My goodness.
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Let's just find first paddle and we'll figure it out as we go.
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That was always more conducive to me because I would say, well, they're showing me that
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they're equally as vulnerable or feeling stressed as I am.
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Versus the others that were more shorts or, you know, matter of fact or get over it or you
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know, do three, you know, three times the amount of work with a third, of capacity and
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and things like that.
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Then I I know myself you keep angry and resentful of the ladder.
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Right.
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The ladder was equally as in much pain as the first set, but the second set is just saying
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get over it.
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Look at me.
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I'm fine.
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I've got that social veneer, like you called it, which I like that word.
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And then they're oftentimes tougher because you know they're stressed also, but they're
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behaving badly.
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Exactly.
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That speaks to that first step I was talking about acknowledge the loss.
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And a real key about that is that step is important, not just for yourself, when you're
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dealing with loss, it's important when you're trying desperately to connect with other people
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who are dealing with loss.
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Like in the case of a lot of change management.
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If or in a reorg, if you are in a leadership position, Of any sort, personally, I believe
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that leaders are found at all levels in an organization.
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So if you're a leader in an organization and you are, then I really think it's all the more
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important to acknowledge not just your loss, also the loss of what the other person is going
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grow.
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When you do that, that is really where you bond on a deeper level where you acknowledge the
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emotional level because there's no logical level on the emotional level and lots of things
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are going on.
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They have to mesh together they they have to be on the same wavelength.
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And so when you acknowledge somebody else's loss, that helps them move to the next step.
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But I I I think that's so important though because, you know, I I, you know, I've been in
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my career had had multiples of positions and the ones said to me, this sucks.
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Yes.
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Oh, this is rough.
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We've got another human coming.
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And and then I go, oh, yeah.
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It does.
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Doesn't it?
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And then they'd say, so, you know, you know, how have you been doing?
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Is something as simple that really, you know, would either a CEO once said that to me, and we
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were going through massive flux.
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And I and he goes, how are you doing with the change?
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I go joking I said, how about you?
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He goes, I'm there.
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He goes, I said, so am I.
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Right?
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Because, of course, you know, you know, at different levels of the organization.
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What information you're gonna get.
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Right?
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Obviously, you're gonna get the information that you need to be able to function, and it's
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equally as stressful at one levels as it is another, but it's really I I like that whole
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element about, the shiny and bright no longer shiny and bright.
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So let's just admit that it's not shiny and bright.
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Especially when you look at change management, it's it's never a flawless seamless, approach,
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but people can make the difference between your approach.
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Indeed.
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Absolutely right.
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And shiny and bright, appearing shiny and bright, you know, it just appears fake.
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Mhmm.
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It does not appear.
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I have a, a person who sent me once that she really can't stand inauthentic people.
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Okay.
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And everything in her life, she will only let the sunshine and lollipops version.
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He presented to other people.
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And I'm thinking to myself, wow.
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What?
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Paradox here.
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Like, it's a a contradiction.
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On one side, she says she can't stand in genuine people.
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And on the other hand, she will not say anything that's not less than perfect.
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So warning to the perfect polyannas out there, You are going to disengage people.
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If you appear perfect or think that you have to appear perfect, you're not.
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You're human.
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Holy cow.
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I mean, people connect most strongly when you show your human side.
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In your vulnerable side.
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Absolutely.
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I think that's the implicit connection that we're often looking for when we're going
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through a a a loss We want someone to say, you know Roxanne?
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That's so familiar.
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It's maybe not the same, but I've had similar a similar situation.
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And boy, you know, I did this and this and this, and it didn't work.
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And maybe consider that.
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And then you kinda go, oh, okay.
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That person's joining with me in some way as, obviously, as, you know, as as a
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psychotherapist, I get it because that's what my job is in that context or as a coach.
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But when you do that in your everyday life, whether you're a neighbor, a husband or a wife,
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a friend, a colleague, like, you know, I I think it's amazing that you put out on
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Facebook.
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Oh my god.
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This sucks.
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Blah.
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Because you know what?
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All of us have have been there, or or we'll be going there soon.
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So then we kinda go, wow.
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Yeah.
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It's no big deal.
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You get through it.
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It's it's normal.
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But I think that vulnerability is what a lot of people are afraid of because if I don't look
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put together, what does that tell people about me?
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Right.
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Exactly.
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Tell them that you're human.
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You know, if you're put together 90% of the time, while that 10% are days like normal days
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where it's Whatever.
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Just not a great day.
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I'll tell you what, like, for the last week, I've been battling a cold, and today was the
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first day I woke up and went, yay.
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No.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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I, you know, I have hardly eaten in the last week, but I've been drinking tons of fluids.
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I've had no appetite, but today I woke up and went, yay.
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I've caught appetite today.
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Hallelujah.
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So all that to say everybody has down days.
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Everybody has that 10% where you're not feeling great.
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Life goes on.
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I find that both consoling and deeply disturbing sometimes, but life goes on when
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we're having problems and challenges in you know, I I find some solace in that, and you can
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do that by sharing some of that loss.
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Because when you do that, as you were alluding to, when bosses and colleagues share, it tells
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people that you're not alone.
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And humans, the nature of being human is we are social bees.
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We are communal beasts.
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We don't live on islands.
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We don't live in solitude.
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If you do, Well, some people do, I suppose, but no.
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Not all people who live alone.
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I mean, like, remote alone alone.
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Anyways, whole other topic.
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But, if we are communal people and so communing and finding that community and that mutual
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pieces, those mutual pieces are so important on being human.
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And that's part of the acknowledging the loss.
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So let's talk about the flipping of the of the because that that, I mean, obviously, that, you
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know, I think that's the That's oftentimes the the the the biggest pebble that should people
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be able to do that.
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What they do is they they really are they're able to bounce back a lot quicker.
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So let's talk about some of the things that you've talked about in the book that
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Right.
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Used to kinda you know, I've leveraged themselves out because the longer we stay in,
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the harder it is to get out, indeed.
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Well, what I present is 4 questions.
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I call them the 4 flipping questions.
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Excuse me.
26:18
I'm gonna call Pardon me.
26:22
And I'm going to really focus on one rate now that I I I've been told is exceptionally
26:28
useful.
26:28
And I know I use it in my vernacular and my common speech just put every day.
26:36
And that is how could it be worse?
26:39
It could always be worse.
26:40
We hear people say, well, it could always be Well, how could it be worse?
26:45
And so I invite people in that question to go into your situation and ask yourself Wow.
26:53
How can I amplify this situation so it could even be more horrible?
26:58
Now you might be asked yourself.
27:00
Why why are you doing that?
27:01
Well, you're gonna come out.
27:02
I'll tell you why in a sec.
27:04
We're gonna flip that in a sec.
27:07
And find relief and gratitude that it's not that bad.
27:11
That's why.
27:12
So let's look at the situation of we were talking about a job loss for sample.
27:18
How could it be worse?
27:19
Well, it could have happened years before.
27:21
It could have happened to more people in the organization.
27:25
It could have happened when you were at a more vulnerable place in your personal life, it
27:32
could have happened before your child was born.
27:35
But you've had several years to stash the cash.
27:38
It could have happened when you were also going through a horrible divorce And you had just
27:46
purchased a house, and there were all these other pressures coming at you.
27:50
So the timing could have been worse.
27:52
So you can look at frequency, intensity, duration.
27:58
It could have been these could have been coming over a period of 2 years and you're constantly
28:03
waiting for the shoe to drop.
28:05
How could your situation be worse?
28:08
Then once you find all those ways and really think about it.
28:13
Like, I mean, not just, oh, well, yeah.
28:15
Okay.
28:16
There's 2 or 3 apples.
28:17
I mean, really think about how could it be worse.
28:22
Wrap your head and your heart around that.
28:26
And then, breathe a sigh of relief because it's not as bad as it could be.
28:35
What that does is it helps to really plant the seeds of gratitude.
28:40
And sometimes we don't do that enough.
28:43
Sometimes we have a sense of gratitude, and it's very vague.
28:49
We don't actually specify why it is that we feel grateful for our lives.
28:54
Oh, yeah.
28:54
I'm grateful.
28:55
Yeah.
28:55
I'm grateful for everything.
28:57
Putting words around what you're grateful for really helps to empower you.
29:03
Let me give you a personal example.
29:06
It was about maybe 4 or 5 years ago.
29:09
I was down in Florida.
29:12
Very grateful.
29:14
And Over the course of about a month or so, I started getting really stiff.
29:22
I started such that my joints became increasingly sore.
29:28
And I thought, oh, I can stress.
29:29
It out.
29:30
No worries.
29:31
I can do this.
29:31
So I stretched it out.
29:33
Did the yoga, did the, balancing, stretching all the rest it till it got to the point, I
29:41
couldn't even stand.
29:42
I couldn't even do a yoga pose because my balance, my ankles were so unsteady.
29:47
I could do the downward dog because I could bear no pressure on my wrist.
29:51
I could barely lift my leg up to get into bed.
29:56
I I could not bend down to get the casserole dish in the bottom shell.
30:00
I couldn't raise my arms to dry my hair properly.
30:05
I would have to time it.
30:06
I knew I had about 10 seconds to wash my hair in the shower.
30:10
So I would time it in 10 seconds, and then I had to put my hands down.
30:14
I couldn't move.
30:16
Those are just some examples.
30:18
It was indescribable, the pain.
30:23
Till I finally said to my husband, upon his insistence, Okay.
30:27
I'll go to the doctor.
30:29
Well, it was not my regular doctor, but when they ran a whole battery of tests, this doctor
30:34
said to me.
30:35
When you get home, you need to see your regular doctor.
30:39
And I said, well, what is the issue exactly?
30:42
He said, well, I'm really not in a position to diagnose you because I'm not your regular
30:48
doctor, but it definitely Sounds like your inflammation is way through the roof, and it's
30:58
likely some sort of arthritis.
31:01
Rheumatoid arthritis.
31:02
And that is exactly what it was.
31:05
He put me on some heavy duty drugs, prednisone, And so I went on the prednisone for about a
31:11
week, 10 days.
31:13
Soon as I got off that, hit again.
31:16
Had to go back to you.
31:18
I was so upset because we were celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary.
31:23
And I remember being in the doctor's office sitting on his examination table.
31:29
I had never been to Hawaii, and we've been planning this for months and months with
31:34
another couple of friends.
31:36
And I remember breaking down into tears and saying, I'm going to ruin our 25th wedding
31:45
anniversary.
31:47
And he said to me, no.
31:49
No.
31:49
We're gonna get you through this.
31:50
He gave me another script.
31:52
I went on the trip.
31:54
I did everything I could.
31:56
I remember we rented a jeep and I don't know if you've been in jeeps, but they're really high.
32:01
And I'm five foot 2, not too high.
32:05
And normally, you would just hop on and get into the back seat.
32:10
I couldn't pull myself up because my wrist were in my vulnerable spot.
32:14
So I remember putting my my arms on the seat just like this and pulling myself up as I could
32:21
get into the vehicle.
32:24
All that to say, when I looked at that loss, it was tremendous at the time because I didn't
32:32
know Was I losing my whole life as I knew it?
32:36
I had and that's when I really realized I need a very active life.
32:40
I mean, Roxanne, you and I is as speakers, we travel.
32:44
I travel with carry on only.
32:47
I could not lift my bag and put it in the overhead, I would not be able to do that.
32:53
I didn't know if I was rewriting the whole future of my life.
32:58
I couldn't do yoga.
33:00
I couldn't I couldn't cook.
33:02
I couldn't take care of my personal hygiene.
33:05
I I couldn't do anything.
33:08
And it was horribly frightening.
33:12
Now what it gave me a chance to do is to exercise that step of how could it be Well, it
33:18
could have been forever.
33:21
And it only hit me when I was in my fifties My niece was in her twenties when she was
33:30
diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis.
33:32
She's the first person I thought It could have been worse for me.
33:37
It could have been more severe.
33:40
It could have been that I didn't react.
33:43
To the first bout of chemicals, of, drugs, the pharmaceuticals.
33:48
It could have been that I might not have had a supportive husband.
33:53
Oh my god.
33:53
He was amazing.
33:55
It could have been that I didn't have a family who understood It could have been that we
34:00
weren't in a bungalow.
34:01
I might have had to go up and downstairs.
34:03
I didn't know.
34:04
We were on a first level bungalow.
34:07
It could have been so much worse.
34:09
I could have been traveling in a place where I didn't have access to medical.
34:13
I could have not had insurance.
34:15
It might not have been covered by shirts.
34:17
It was.
34:19
It could have been so much worse.
34:20
And so when I thought of all those things, you know, now that I think of it Roxanne in, That
34:25
might have been the beginning one of the beginning seeds of the Finkelstein Factor is
34:30
thinking about all this.
34:32
And I asked myself, how could it be worse?
34:34
And it really made me so deeply grateful that it wasn't as bad as could be.
34:41
And the reason I share that with you and and your listeners is to let them know whatever
34:45
situation they're going through right now, whatever challenges they're grappling with.
34:50
Think about how could it be worse and then flip it.
34:53
It could have been worse if I didn't have a supportive system.
34:57
So What was the support system that I did have?
35:00
I had my husband, my family, my friends, my colleagues.
35:04
Mhmm.
35:04
I reached out on Facebook I reached out on social media and and got so much support.
35:12
It was amazing.
35:12
It could have been worse that I didn't have insurance.
35:15
So what was the gift that what was the, grateful thing that I did have while I had
35:22
insurance?
35:22
And I had the ability to pay for insurance.
35:26
Mhmm.
35:26
Grateful.
35:27
Grateful.
35:28
So when you identify how it could be worth You can also identify what you can be grateful for.
35:36
And that's one of the key flipping questions because it really resets your mind It really
35:43
flips you into thinking of that negative as recognizing the positives that you do have.
35:50
Yeah.
35:50
I like I like that and you know, even I can think further if you think of and I can think
35:55
of multiple situations in my life where something that I was going through.
35:59
And I thought, oh my goodness.
36:01
And then when I looked back now is those were some of the most amazing things that came up of
36:07
those scenarios taking it one step further.
36:10
Right?
36:10
And I think, wow, under that major loss, this and this and this was possible.
36:15
So, you know, kind of like the the what could be it could be worse and looking at it, looking
36:21
at it from a gratitude lens, puts you into a a different state automatically.
36:26
Indeed.
36:26
And it it accelerates that ability to recognize that gratitude piece.
36:34
You were saying when you look back at that scenario, well, the the whole key with
36:40
finkelstein factor is to not wait until it's all over necessarily, although you can't.
36:47
It's really useful to use this book to revisit old hurts that you can't quite let go of yet
36:54
that are still not quite healed.
36:57
It's also really useful as you're living something.
37:02
It's it's so great to have these tools and these questions You know what?
37:07
I was reading this book.
37:08
I'm I'm doing, a keynote on this.
37:11
And so I was reading this book to decide what excerpts and pieces and stories.
37:16
It's really sprinkled with dozens of real life stories too.
37:20
And As I was reading it yesterday, I thought to myself, you know what?
37:24
I'm glad I'm rereading this because it reminds me of some of the things I can do right now
37:29
with some of the things I'm dealing with.
37:32
Mhmm.
37:32
And it's so practical.
37:34
It's so hands on.
37:35
And it's going to be very individualized according to you and your sister.
37:41
So and the last step is is letting go.
37:44
Is it?
37:44
Okay.
37:45
So Yep.
37:46
It is.
37:47
Tell us about that step and what's obviously letting go.
37:50
We know it's a, you know, it's a concept.
37:52
We all should let go of things once we've dealt with it.
37:55
We've you know, but a lot of us you know, they we carried around with like a like a it gets
37:59
heavier and heavier, you know, if we don't let go.
38:03
And, so what are the some of the things that you talk about in a state factor about letting
38:07
go.
38:08
Right.
38:08
In the single state factor, what I talk about is the let go is I talk about the let go guide,
38:14
which is this series of questions rate here, rate in the book.
38:17
It's 6 questions.
38:19
And it really, I I talk a little bit about each one of them, kind of delve into each one a bit.
38:26
And what it does is it asks you different aspects about your situation.
38:33
To see if you've earned the right to let it go yet.
38:37
Let me give you an example.
38:39
So suppose you're dealing with a situation that's, let's say it's a work related situation
38:47
of a bully box.
38:50
And let's say that the first question is, do you control the situation Do you have complete
39:01
control of that situation?
39:05
Well, If you don't have complete control, I.
39:11
E.
39:12
Of how your bully boss is behaving, how they respond and such, but the answer is know, then
39:19
maybe that's something you can let go of.
39:22
If you don't control how somebody else's funding or how they're taking a fit or how
39:29
negative they're being, maybe you can let go of that piece.
39:34
Or maybe if somebody's bonding in a very retacking way, you can control pieces of it,
39:40
how how you respond to them, but you don't control all of it.
39:44
So maybe you can let go of that piece.
39:47
Another example would be, did you do your best?
39:52
If you can look yourself in the mirror and say, you know what?
39:56
I gave it the old college effort.
39:59
I did what I could.
40:01
I assumed responsibility.
40:04
I educated myself.
40:06
I gained the skills.
40:07
I felt I needed to deal with that situation.
40:12
Excuse me.
40:13
I sought professional help.
40:16
I'm thinking right now financial crises.
40:20
I used to work in an organization.
40:21
I was the director communications for the morale and welfare agency in, in the government
40:27
that provides morale and welfare for the Canadian forces, members, and their families.
40:32
And a branch of that organization, SISUP is what it's called, provided financial planning
40:38
and financial accounts And financial counseling is beyond planning.
40:44
It's when people are in crisis mode.
40:46
And it's when they really need help to decide how can they control their finances and get
40:54
them in order before something really drastic happens like they lose their house or they get
41:00
garnished sheet or whatever the case is.
41:02
And so when they look at that piece of, did you do your best?
41:07
An example would be if if you're dealing with financial crises, are you reaching out to the
41:13
people, the very people who can help you?
41:15
And I don't mean arily, family members who can give you a big fat loan.
41:19
That's not what I'm saying.
41:21
I don't want someone not suggesting somebody bail you out I'm suggesting you empower
41:26
yourself with the tools and knowledge so you take responsibility for creating your own
41:32
reality.
41:33
You create.
41:35
You are living the life right now that you have created.
41:40
Ouch, right?
41:42
Cause if it sucks, you helped create it.
41:46
So one of the pieces there is not only do you control it, but do did you do your best?
41:54
So part of doing your best, just finding that support, like we were talking about early in
41:59
the session, be human.
42:02
Let people know that you need a hand, a helping hand.
42:05
Perfect.
42:06
Reach out when you need help.
42:09
In fact, I begin the Finkelstein Factor chapter 2 which incidentally, and probably by no
42:16
coincidence, the longest chapter is all about self care.
42:20
It's about taking care of yourself so you can take care of others.
42:25
Self care is not selfish.
42:28
So doing your best means taking care of yourself, empower yourself with the tools that
42:35
you need to take care of whatever your situation It might be seeing a psychotherapist.
42:42
It might be seeing a financial counselor.
42:44
It might be seeing a communication coach.
42:47
It might be getting a copy of the Finkelstein Factor.
42:51
It might be whatever you need to do to move you from your place of pain and loss to where you
42:57
want to So that's some pieces.
43:00
Those are the the type of questions that we ask in, the letting go.
43:06
And, you know, I the letting go piece always reminds me of a friend of mine who moved from
43:13
Ottawa.
43:13
I lived in Ottawa for 31 years.
43:15
I now live Maga Falls, where I grew up in the Maga region.
43:20
And this friend had lived in her house for about 30 years, raised her 2 adult children
43:25
there.
43:26
Her husband and she were living there as empty nesters, and they decided it was time to scale
43:32
down and move to a condo in Toronto way scaled down to about maybe a, I don't know, 900 square
43:40
foot from about a 2500 or 3000 square foot home.
43:45
Huge difference.
43:46
And I remember going to her basement And whenever I think about letting go, I think of
43:52
her.
43:52
And I went into her basement, and I saw her getting ready for the garage sale that was
43:57
taking place in the day, and I was there to help her the night before.
44:00
And I saw little price tags on all her personal items.
44:04
Oh, My heart just went out to where I said, oh, wow.
44:09
That must really hurt to see all your personal items with price tags on and all the memories
44:15
and all the attachment that you have to come.
44:17
And she turned to me and she said, Varian, It is absolutely liberating.
44:24
Wow.
44:28
And I thought, what are the things that we are hanging on to that are keeping us tethered to
44:36
the ground in our current positions that we can cut those ties up, let our air balloon fly.
44:45
So for her, it was those physical items.
44:49
It's not interesting.
44:50
Like, I was looking at it from a place of loss, and she was looking at it from a place of
44:55
letting go.
44:56
What a what a nice way because, you know, you're already looking at putting it in
45:00
perspective.
45:02
She had obviously lived a full life in there and and gone through various stages and ages
45:08
and and memories, and then decided that now is time for a different chapter.
45:13
So it's really shift the flip the flipping of it.
45:16
Right?
45:18
Yeah, for one thing to say, I've been privileged to be able to do, all these things
45:23
in the space, but now it's time to give it up to some maybe someone else who can also do the
45:28
same that's coming from a different spot.
45:30
And really perspective, right, because we I often say that we we get those stuck in our own
45:36
subjective reality based on so many things that when you start and slow, and start to really
45:42
reflect.
45:43
That's the only time we can really slow down and make meaning of what's in front of us.
45:50
Indeed.
45:51
Absolutely right.
45:53
And sometimes we need some like oftentimes, like you said, to your point, we're mammals.
45:58
We need to connect.
45:59
And when we get stuck in our reality, it's hard because we're stressed and we're, you know, we
46:05
we become very, very pinpointed on what the problem is versus kind of backing up and
46:09
looking at the aerial view of it, which is kind of what, you know, sometimes we needed.
46:14
And it sounds like these amazing questions will allow us to to go into that space.
46:20
I have been told when I've done presentations that That piece about letting go is really
46:28
powerful.
46:29
I know it's what something that I struggle with.
46:31
And those six questions appear simple.
46:35
They're not easy.
46:36
They're simple.
46:38
They're not easy.
46:41
And so they really are thought provoking, and they're challenging.
46:45
I mean, they really challenge you to dig deep and to be honest.
46:53
And I what I like about it is it kept it keeps you unstuck.
46:56
Like to your point, you don't have to wait to reflect Right.
47:00
After the event has happened, which I think most of us do, but you can kind of sit there
47:04
and go, how could it be worse?
47:06
Like, right now, like, how and then really you could you could kinda look at it.
47:10
It you could look at it as maybe a catastrophizing, but really what you're doing
47:15
is, like you said, you take the contastrophizing and moving it into a grateful
47:19
pinpoint because once we start to regardless of what we're going through, I often say that, you
47:24
know, when you open your eyes and and you recognize, you know, I back onto the woods.
47:28
So I open my eyes and I I see the beautiful green or, you know, I've had my right, you
47:33
know, that cappatita I like or, like, favorite breakfast where I'd be able to sit out and
47:38
little things like that.
47:39
It really it boosts whatever you're thinking, which we all have negative thoughts.
47:43
Yes.
47:44
I have
47:44
to say to everybody, if you know somebody that only has positive thoughts, please have them
47:48
give me a ring.
47:49
Because I would love to bottle whatever they figured out because what we know is that our
47:54
brain is our brain.
47:55
Right?
47:55
That's the reality.
47:56
We have negative thoughts.
47:57
We have positive thoughts.
47:59
We have good things that happened.
48:00
We have bad things that but it's really we're the only variable, like the Finkel seed factor
48:04
says that can make the difference with how we cope.
48:07
Exactly.
48:08
In terms of the how could it be worse, there's two words that really sum up how could it be
48:14
worse.
48:14
When you acknowledge how it could be worse and how it's not worse, You can preface that with
48:21
at least.
48:22
Remember those words, at least.
48:24
Anybody who's ever golfed with me, knows I use that phrase a lot.
48:29
I will say things like I'll hit a a ball.
48:32
It'll be a lousy shot.
48:33
I know you're shocked.
48:35
I'm only in it for the 19th hole.
48:37
I'll be honest.
48:38
So I'll hit a lousy shot, and I'll say it didn't go too far.
48:42
At least straight or, oh, jeez, it went into the rough stuff.
48:47
At least it didn't roll into the water.
48:51
Or it rolled into the water in Florida, rolled into the water.
48:55
Well, at least it's not by an alligator.
48:59
It's not it's not like RJ.
49:00
When I golf with RJ, he'll say, well, that was pretty straight, mom.
49:05
Maybe it wasn't the whole
49:08
at least.
49:09
At least.
49:10
Exactly.
49:11
I really encourage people incorporate the, at least, into your vocabulary.
49:17
But don't do it until you acknowledge the loss because if you start using at least with
49:22
somebody else who's expressing their pain or their situation and you haven't acknowledged
49:28
their loss.
49:28
It sounds like
49:30
you're minimizing
49:30
their pain.
49:31
You
49:31
don't undo that.
49:32
Well, at least you still got a job.
49:34
I have a busy bus.
49:35
Oh my god.
49:36
He's sleeping or she is really nasty to me.
49:39
Well, at least you've got a job.
49:42
It doesn't help.
49:43
Of course.
49:44
That's like a back.
49:45
That's a back hands for support.
49:46
Right?
49:47
It's not good support.
49:48
Well, Mary, this has been amazing.
49:50
I have read parts of the book, and I haven't read all of it, but what I'm hearing,
49:55
definitely, I think it would be something that I could even recommend to the people that I
49:58
coach.
49:59
I should be mentioning too.
50:02
Yes.
50:02
Miss Roxanne is quoted in the book.
50:05
She's referenced in the book.
50:07
Because in our chitchats, when I was developing the book, she had mentioned a really useful
50:12
exercise or a question that is in the book.
50:15
So she has formal recognition right in there.
50:19
I didn't I didn't realize it because we it was informal dinner that we had gotten together,
50:24
and then she told me after.
50:25
So I was I felt very special since she she, took the time to put me in the book.
50:29
Now, Mary, you have a couple of things coming up and I and, I'm in Niagara, so I will be
50:35
there.
50:37
And I would like, others that are fire even if you'd like to come into town to come and, spend
50:42
time with Mary because, I think it'll be a good experience.
50:44
So tell everyone about the book launch and also way they can get the book, and I know there's
50:49
an e version also.
50:50
And in the links for the podcast, you'll be able to, you know, be able to connect and and
50:55
get all these resources all
50:58
I'm really excited to share with your listeners that the book launch will actually be on
51:04
Thursday, September 12th, in St.
51:08
Catherine's at 12 lost 123.
51:11
It's called because of that 123 Queenston Street.
51:15
It's in a little strip mall.
51:16
You know what?
51:16
It's not a fancy place.
51:18
Don't be put off like, oh, what is this place?
51:21
It's beautiful once you get into it.
51:23
And the reason I chose that venue honestly is because it's I'm going to use her story in the
51:29
presentation that night, about how the owner, the manager of that place, flipped a negative
51:35
to a positive.
51:36
And it's going to have a presentation about to think steam factor followed by Q And As.
51:42
It's all the information is on Eventbrite.da.
51:47
Just go into event, right, and search for events in Saint Catherine's or, on September
51:53
12.
51:54
And this one will come up.
51:56
And I look forward to seeing you there because I'm going to be offering a book at a special
52:00
price, at certain venues This book sells for $26.
52:06
However, that evening, and on my website, it sells for $20 On my website, Marian speaks.com,
52:15
you can order it.
52:16
However, you're gonna pay for the postage that way.
52:20
Which is $8.
52:21
But if you come to the event, if you're able to, there's no delivery involved.
52:27
So you get to pick it up and save a few bucks, which is always great, or you can order the e
52:31
version anytime and it's delivered immediately at merionspeaks.com.
52:35
Go to the tab order book.
52:38
And you can order it right there.
52:39
So that's how they can get in touch with me.
52:42
And I really look forward to meeting people because technology is great.
52:47
There is nothing that beats face to face.
52:50
Absolutely.
52:51
Absolutely.
52:52
So I've got other thing I wanted to mention, this venue is going to have coffee, tea, and a
52:57
wine bar.
52:59
Nice.
52:59
Nice.
53:00
Even more reason, a wine bar.
53:04
So, Mary, thanks so much for spending the time with us today.
53:08
So what I when I think about this, you know, things happen to all of us all the time.
53:13
Life is rich.
53:14
It it gives us the potholes as as much as the epiphanies and the great things.
53:20
So these, steps that, Marines has shared today is gonna just help us to as we go month into 1
53:27
month's good.
53:28
1 month's not good.
53:29
1 week's fantastic.
53:30
2 weeks are horrible.
53:31
That's life.
53:32
And recognizing that at the end of the day, you can be in that state space and still get
53:36
through it and still be grateful for all that you have because we are so very lucky to be
53:42
able to spend this time like we have today.
53:44
Marion lives right here in the falls.
53:46
I'll be able to see her at her book launch and be able to see Steve again and and spent some
53:51
time with me both.
53:52
Steve, my husband, incidentally, was the inspiration for the book.
53:57
That's his last name, miss Finkelstein.
53:59
So he he is definitely a the main re one of the main reasons for the book.
54:05
So for everyone, what I would say to you is, life happens.
54:08
You can create this, the space to deal with what life provides to you in a in in a way that
54:14
you can get through it.
54:15
So if you're needing any additional information on me, it's Roxanne Derhodge, I I can be
54:21
reached at roxanderhodge.com.
54:23
I'm a mental health and wellness expert.
54:25
I speak on authenticity and leadership.
54:27
And I do trainings and workshops.
54:29
So thanks so much for your time again, Marianne, and we'll see you soon.
54:32
Bye, everyone.
54:35
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
54:40
healthy change.
54:41
Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
54:48
roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
54:52
We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.