Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 58 - What's the Deal with Ouija Boards?

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Ep. 58 - What's the Deal with Ouija Boards? · Martyr's Row

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This week on Martyrs Row. Did the Mario Brothers
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invent the Luigi board? Watch out, Catholics.
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We're coming for you. Is Zazu from The Lion King
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the Ouija board demon? Does Jerry Seinfeld love
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talking to dead people? Dead comedians in cars
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getting coffee. I don't know. Let's find out.
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This week on Martyrs Row. Watch out. You might
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get necromanced. Three, two, one. Saint Lawrence,
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deacon of the church at Rome, faithfully served
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under Pope Sixtus II in the persecution of Valerian,
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when his bishop was led away to martyrdom. Lawrence
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desired to follow him, but Sixtus bade him remain
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a little while, saying that a greater trial awaited
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him. Being afterward commended to surrender the
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treasures of the church, Lawrence gathered together
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the poor, the widows, and the afflicted, presenting
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them before the prefect, and declaring, Behold
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the treasures of the church! For this bold confession,
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he was condemned to a slow death upon an iron
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grate over burning coals. Yet in the midst of
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his torment, he failed not in courage, but, as
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the ancient tradition saith, declared with holy
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cheer, Turn me over, for I am done on this side.
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Thus this faithful deacon, rich in mercy and
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steadfast in suffering, showed that the true
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wealth of Christ's church is found not in gold,
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but in the saints and the poor. Anno Domini,
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258 On August 5th, 1918. In a letter to Father
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Benedito, Padre Pio described an extraordinary
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experience that occurred while he was hearing
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confessions. It happened while I was hearing
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the boys' confessions on the evening of August
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5. Suddenly I was seized by an intense recollection
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and was overcome by a great terror at the sight
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of a heavenly person who appeared before my mind's
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eye. In his hand he held a kind of long spear
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with a very sharp point, and the point seemed
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to be made of fire. At once he hurled it with
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great force into my soul. I cried out with difficulty
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because I felt I was dying. I told the boys to
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leave because I no longer had the strength to
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continue. This agony continued without interruption
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until the morning of August 7th. Several weeks
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later, While praying after celebrating Mass in
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the choir at San Giovanni Rotondo, Padre Pio
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experienced the event that he would later describe
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in a letter dated October 22, 1918. On the morning
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of September 20, after I had celebrated Holy
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Mass, I remained in the choir making my thanksgiving.
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Gradually I entered a state resembling a gentle
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sleep. My interior and exterior senses became
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still. Everything around me and within me was
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silent and an indescribable peace filled my soul.
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Suddenly there appeared before me the same mysterious
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person who had appeared on August 5th. This time
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there was one striking difference. His hands,
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his feet, and his side were dripping with blood.
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The sight filled me with terror. What I experienced
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at that moment cannot be described. I believed
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I was dying, and I would have died had the Lord
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not strengthened my heart, which seemed ready
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to burst from my chest. The vision disappeared.
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When I regained awareness, I realized that my
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own hands, feet, and side had been pierced and
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were bleeding. Imagine the agony I experienced
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then and continue to experience almost every
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day. The wound in my side bleeds continually,
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especially from Thursday evening until Saturday.
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My father, I am dying from the pain because of
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the deep torment I feel in my soul. I fear I
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shall bleed to death if the Lord does not hear
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my prayer to lessen these outward signs. So Paul.
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Yes. Our old buddy, Padre Pio. Padre Pio's back.
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He's back with a vengeance. Someone has a vengeance.
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So I came upon this, and this is one of those
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things that's kind of interesting because we
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hear the stories. In fact, the last time we talked
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about Padre Pio, we talked about how he had,
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I forget what it's called, but he had what in
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the Catholic Church would be described as Essentially
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visible signs of a spiritual encounter. Yes.
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Right? So it was said that he, particularly from
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Thursday to Saturday and in these holy times,
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would actually start bleeding from his hands,
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the palms of his hands, and from his side as
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if he had taken on the wounds of Jesus on the
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cross. Right. Yes. And we had talked about that.
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Yes. But if you go back and look at what we just
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read, which is his actual written account in
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1918. It sounds much different than that story.
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It sounds wildly different than that story. Yes.
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And it goes to this whole element of he is hearing
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the confessions of the boys that are in this
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convent. As he's hearing those confessions, in
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other words, taking on the sin of someone else.
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Yes. He then has a perceived vision or a visitation,
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which is interesting how closely related those
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two words are. Yes. A vision and a visitation.
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Because they're also very similar. They are.
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So it's like that's one of those things where
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when you look at it, it's like, well, hang on
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a minute. And some people have argued. that this
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sounds a lot like a modern day abduction, a modern
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day encounter that people would describe with
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alien beings. Yeah. That's one way to look at
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it. But this is a Catholic priest. Yes. And so
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when we look at it in light of that and the language
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that he uses, We wouldn't necessarily assume
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that there was something that appeared there.
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However, a. Wasn't like a physical manifestation.
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Right. A shift into this spiritual realm, a realm
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shift. Yes. That was invading the physical space
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that he was in and affecting his physical body.
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Yeah. The thing that strikes me about it is that.
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It begins with overwhelming peace and quickly
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turns to terror. Yes. Now, I don't know about
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you, but any accounts of being in the presence
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of an angel, a good messenger, or being in the
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presence of Jesus, or like the presence of God,
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usually stops at overwhelming peace. And begins
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with fright. Yes. So it usually starts with,
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oh, what is this? And you have to be given like,
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no, you should be. You're good. Don't fear. And
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then peace comes and then there's usually knowledge
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given. Yes. That's usually what happens. So in
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this instance, we have overwhelming peace, almost
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like a sedation. Yeah. Into a total terror. Yes.
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Which does not seem to be of God. Yeah, it's
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not. Or it doesn't seem that way. Because I feel
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like typically that is... Again, it's funny.
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It's just like the inverse perversion of it where
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it's like a lot of those... You could even call
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it like an astral projection experience. Yeah.
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Even though that doesn't sound like what he experienced.
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But it was somewhat out of the body. But it was
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somewhat in like the astral plane. Yeah. And
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it's like... Yeah, I feel like a lot of times
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when... the stories I've seen is like, it starts
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off very nice. Right. As sin often does. Yes.
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And then it turns frighteningly horrible. Yeah.
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Very quickly. Exactly. And so, okay. So, so as,
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as we look at that and as, as I read through
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that, I was like that. pops up in my mind the
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other thing is there was a fiery spear that was
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thrown directly into his soul it caused him physical
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pain for multiple days yeah he said two days
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yeah yeah and then it just became something that
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was regularly there so then so then in the moment
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when he actually receives what everybody would
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know him for which are the the signs of it turns
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out that That was an extension of this first
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vision. Yes. And the same thing appeared. He
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doesn't say what it was. Right. But he does say
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it was like a person. Yeah. But he doesn't say
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it was Jesus. Right. And he essentially, every
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time when he's encountering this being, he's
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in total terror. Right. And it's tormenting his
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soul. He even says, I don't even feel like I
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can ask the Lord to remove this from me. I simply
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ask that he removes the visible signs of what's
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happening in my soul. Yeah. Which is a little
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bit like, okay, but you might need to have your
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soul healed. Right. But he's also a good Catholic.
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What does that mean? They love suffering. Fair.
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Fair. But it makes me think of Ephesians chapter
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six. Ephesians chapter six talks about putting
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on the whole armor of God. Yeah. But Ephesians
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6, 16 says, in all circumstances, take up the
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shield of faith with which you can extinguish.
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All the flaming darts of the evil one. The flaming
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darts of the evil one. It's a little on the nose,
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isn't it? Yeah. It's like, wait, so there was
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a flaming spear that went into your soul. Yeah.
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And Paul says in Ephesians 6, take up the shield
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of faith that you might be able to extinguish
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any fiery dart of the enemy. Wow. So how are
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we supposed to read Padre Pio's account and not
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say that's a fiery dart of the enemy? That's
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exactly what it sounds like. I mean, I don't
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know how it would be anything else. Yeah. And
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I'm certainly not going to try and ask Padre
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Pio. No. But you can't. Fair. But you can still
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see him. Oh, yeah. He's on display. Yeah, that's
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weird. Yeah, I do want to go see it one day.
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Yeah, fair. Morbid curiosity. Understandable.
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But isn't that crazy, though? We've talked about
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this before, and it's amazing how many things
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are so on the nose. Yeah. It's even when Paul
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says, do not trust any other gospel, whether
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it's from me or somebody else or even an angel
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of light. Yes. And yet we have multiple religions
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that have been founded, and it starts off with
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they were visited by an angel of light. Yeah.
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And it gave them a new gospel. Right. How is
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Paul so on the nose on that? It's almost too
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clean. Yeah, like somehow everything is actually
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in the Bible. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it's
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just that obvious. Yeah. And it's also like,
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of course, like when you, if you're taking confession
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as a priest. And there's just this confession
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and there's just this rolling sin and all the
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things that people have exposed themselves to
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in the spiritual space is just being dumped upon
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you. Yeah. It's like if you haven't taken up
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the shield of faith, then the enemy is going
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to thrust a fiery dart or spear through your
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soul. Yeah. Like that's, I don't know how else
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to say that that's what happened. And this is
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exactly what it sounds like. It's gotta be. Yeah.
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So dear friends, take up the shield of faith
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and maybe stop listening to so many confessions
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or definitely take up the shield of faith. Yeah.
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Do that first. Yeah. So I would say just bring
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it up with the big man. Double check on Padre
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Pio. We still love you, man. Yeah. He's still
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one of my favorites. Yeah. Well, uh, I hope.
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I don't know what to say from there. I mean,
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what do we do? Padre Pio? This one's for you,
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Padre Pio. There you go. Three, two, one. Found
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an old board in my grandpa's shed Covered in
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dust where the spotters had spread Buddy Lasset,
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man, let's give it a spin It's just a game, ain't
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no harm in it Candle burned low, windows cracked.
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Room got cold and we all leaned back. Little
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piece slid like nobody touched it. That's when
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the jokes stopped being much, yeah. Some doors
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open easy, some never should. It stands in the
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light all day. Don't knock if you don't want
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an answer. Some things should just stay away.
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Started hearing footsteps down the hall. Nothing
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there but the pictures on the wall. Mama said,
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son, you don't play with fire. The devil don't
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show up dressed like a liar. You whisper curiosity.
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Promise secrets that don't come free. One bad
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choice can echo for years. Fear has a voice if
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you're willing to hear. I found peace in a borrowed
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cross. Not in the things that promised more.
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The grave is empty, the stone rolled back. I
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don't need to ask the dark anymore. the dark
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anymore so don't knock if you don't want an answer
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don't call if you don't know the name there's
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only one voice worth following yesterday forever
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he's always the same if you're searching for
17:59
forever Some lessons they only take once to know.
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So, Paul. Yes, that's my name. I have a question
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for you. Okay, sweet. What's the deal with Ouija
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boards? What's the deal? Yeah, I love it. Why
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does Jerry Seinfeld love talking to dead people?
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Does he? I guess. I mean, what's the deal with
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that? I mean, why would I say it if it wasn't
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true? That's true. And this is the internet.
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Prove me wrong. Prove me wrong. Someone out there,
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why does Jerry Seinfeld like speaking to dead
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people? Prove me wrong. I think Jerry Seinfeld
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himself needs to comment. Let's do it. Dead comedians
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in cars getting coffee. That's a show. Don't
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give him ideas. Hey, Jerry, call me. I'm here.
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I got ideas. I almost went boo -doo -boo -boo
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-boo. You will be loving it. Right sound. I know.
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Yeah. Kind of more like slap. I don't know. You're
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the bass player. Which actually, do you know
19:34
they did that on a keyboard? Oh, that makes way
19:36
more sense. Yeah. Fair. Which is kind of crazy.
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So, Paul, what's the deal with Luigi? What's
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the deal with Luigi boards? Luigi boards. That's
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all I heard. What's the deal with Luigi boards?
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What's Luigi got to do with all this? yeah so
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i mean i feel like it's first of all why why
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is it spelled that way that's a actually interesting
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question do you have the answer to that well
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there's a few theories okay because there are
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like a few stories about how the most common
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one or at least the one that i'm most familiar
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with okay is that the board actually told him
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told them what to call it that's a cop -out That
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one's actually like the most credible story.
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Well, then if that's the case. Because one of
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the, I might have the relationships mixed up
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here. But so the guy created it because he wanted
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it to be like a game. Okay. And he did it with,
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I think it was either his sister or just a friend
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who was a medium. Okay. And they worked together
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on it. Yeah. And he was a large. Yes. Extra small.
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I had to. Yeah. And then so they worked together
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on it and they were trying to figure out what
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to call it. And they were like, hey, what should
20:46
we name you? And apparently that's the story
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that they told. Well, that's terrifying. And
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then actually, interestingly, is the woman who
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was part of creating it. Okay. Ended up like
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selling all of her shares at one point and like
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getting completely away from it. Okay. And they're
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like, what happened there? She's like, yeah,
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don't use those. They lie. Oh, no. Which is like.
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Kind of crazy. I guess, okay. Because she got
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into a lot of trouble because if something got
21:11
lost, she would use the board to help her find
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it. Oh. And it'd be like, oh yeah, it's over
21:15
here. That's insane. And she was missing something
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and it was like, oh yeah, that person stole it
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from you. Oh no. And so she started accusing
21:23
one of her friends or her family of stealing
21:25
something. Yeah. And it turned into this huge,
21:28
massive thing. So she trusted the Ouija board
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more than people. Yes. That's wild. Pretty crazy.
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So, okay. Yeah. But I guess, okay, so the Ouija
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board doesn't talk. No. It spells. Correct. Yeah.
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So if I was looking at a board and it spelled
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out, it's like O -U -I -J -A. Yeah. I would never
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look at that sequence of letters, first of all,
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and say, this is a word. Yes. Second of all.
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Start the sound with a W. Yeah. Which I think
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that's not even like the proper pronunciation.
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No, it's not. It's just like, yeah, but that's
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what it is. That's what we call it. Wouldn't
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it have to have like two dots over the U? I think
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so. For it to make that sound? Yeah. Like the
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wah sound. I think that W with two dots above
22:25
it, it's called something. But then they're like,
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now it looks too Nordic. That's fair. But that's
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what makes it make that sound. Yeah, it's true.
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Otherwise, it's not. It makes no sense. That's
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insane. Let's just look at the French and be
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like, oui. Okay, well then that's a problem.
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O -U -I. The French are a problem. Hey, I don't
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mind if you're French, but just not around the
22:47
kids. So who invented this thing and what is
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it? So I actually don't remember the guy's name
23:01
who invented it. Luigi. Luigi. Yeah, Mr. Luigi.
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He invented the Ouija board. I can't even say
23:10
that. Luigi Ouija. Luigi Ouija. Right? Sounds
23:16
like a window washing company. Hello there, we
23:21
are Luigi Ouija and we will Ouija your Ouijis.
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Is that, I mean, what would you do? I mean, that's
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it. Okay, yeah, fair. Okay, so what are we doing
23:30
with these things? Yeah, so people use, it's
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kind of, well, so the guy created it as like
23:35
a game. Okay. And that's what it was, I mean,
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I think it's still sold as a game. Yeah, I think
23:40
it is too. Which is crazy. I think you can just
23:43
get it in Walmart. Yeah, I think so. That's.
23:46
And even there's a lot of people that will print
23:48
them out. Like just from their computer, they're
23:50
like, oh, here's a paper version. Okay. So it's
23:53
like, it's kind of crazy because it's like, it's
23:56
just like used as a tool. Yeah. And you can get
24:00
like the fancy game version of it. Yeah, yeah.
24:02
To use that tool to communicate with spirits.
24:06
So is it intended to be a conversation with actual
24:12
beings? Yeah. Like is, so a Ouija board is a
24:17
game. Like, Twister. At least we call it that.
24:20
Okay. We call it a game. Right. But, like, the
24:23
sole purpose and the intention of using it is
24:25
to talk to something beyond. But what would the,
24:29
like, is there, like, a tagline to the game?
24:33
That's actually a great question. I don't know.
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Okay. Yeah, to be fair, I didn't actually look
24:38
down that side of it. Yeah. Because I was like,
24:41
oh, yeah, they were weird. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
24:44
well, okay. So then what is Ouija? I wonder if
24:47
there is a tagline with it. I feel like there's
24:49
got to be. How would you sell it? Like, do you
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want to have fun with your friends tonight and
24:54
talk to dead people? Why don't you play some
24:55
Ouija tonight? Luigi? Hey, Grandma, what's the
24:59
recipe for it? Oh, yeah. Hey, do you want to
25:02
have fun and not only play with the people that
25:04
are literally in front of you, but also the people
25:06
that are there in spirit? Oh. Right? Yeah. When
25:09
you say in spirit. The spirit of the holidays.
25:15
Do you want to be like Scrooge and talk to the
25:17
spirit of the past, present, and future? Not
25:21
really. Play Ouija board. Play Ouija board. And
25:24
bring your chains. That's terrifying. Yeah, it's
25:28
kind of terrifying. So is there, are there like,
25:31
is it like a guess who? Like are there spirits
25:34
that show up with Ouija boards? Yes, I mean that's.
25:38
So there have been some studies of people that
25:40
use it because people are looking at like, is
25:42
this actually legitimate or is it not legitimate?
25:44
So there's been like Harvard studies. Yeah. Okay.
25:48
And some of them have like, obviously there's
25:51
some bias behind everything. Yeah. And so there
25:53
are things that show like, have you ever done
25:56
like the string trick where you hold it and you
25:58
think about it spinning? Or like rotating? No.
26:01
Or like swinging side? Oh, you've never done
26:02
that? No. Yeah, so it's actually interesting
26:06
because it shows like involuntary muscle movements.
26:09
Okay. And so if you had like a chain or a string
26:13
or something and you held it in your hand. Yeah.
26:15
And you didn't move your hand, but you thought
26:17
about it like moving in a direction or spinning.
26:20
Okay. It'll start to do that. Wait, like in your
26:23
mind it will or literally do that? No, like physically
26:25
doing it. So you've done that? Mm -hmm. And so
26:28
- How long does it take? Not very long, usually.
26:32
That's terrifying. But what it really is, is
26:34
like, you're not consciously moving, but because
26:37
your brain, you're sending that signal through
26:40
your brain. Oh, your hand is making it happen.
26:42
And your hand is doing it. But it's like an involuntary
26:45
movement. So you're treating your hand like it's
26:52
somebody else's. No. Let me explain that again.
26:58
No, okay. Okay. That's weird. Yeah. And so those
27:04
are some of the studies are behind is like, are
27:06
people involuntarily moving the planchette as
27:10
it's called? Well, I think that's to me where
27:13
the game element would come in. Yeah. So like,
27:16
yeah. How do you spell it again? O -U. O -U -I
27:20
-J -A. So Ouija board game tagline is what? Because
27:30
I feel like this is where it's like, well, what
27:31
do you do with this? Okay, so... Oh, that's terrifying.
27:39
So the classic advertising tagline most associated
27:43
with the Ouija board is keep telling yourself
27:46
it's just a game. That is spooky. That's horrifying.
27:51
It's spooky. Other official marketing lines used
27:54
by Hasbro over the years include... We need to
27:57
look into Hasbro. They just have like... Just
27:59
kidding, Hasbro. We love you. Don't they also...
28:02
Haribo. Gummy bears? That's a gummy bear, yeah.
28:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Way too close. They're related.
28:08
Yeah, they have to be. Enter the world of the
28:12
mysterious and mystifying. Okay, that one's a
28:15
little... You've got questions. The spirit world
28:18
has answers. Geesh. Also kind of heavy. How it
28:21
works has been a mystery for over 30 years. Okay,
28:25
that's just kind of a fun anecdote. Yeah. The
28:27
first one, though, is... Keep telling yourself
28:29
it's just a game. That's terrifying. Yeah. Oh,
28:33
that's a tagline from the movie. There's a movie
28:36
with a Ouija board. Oh, that's The Exorcist,
28:39
isn't it? I don't know. I think it is. No, it's
28:43
called Ouija. Oh, is it really? 2014, a movie
28:46
called Ouija. Keep telling yourself it's just
28:50
a game. Yeah, no thank you. I need to stop saying
28:52
that tagline. Yeah. I don't know if I'm going
28:55
to sleep tonight. Well, just wait. Old boy. Buckle
29:00
up, Martyrs Row crew. Here we go. We're going
29:03
down the whacking wild. Hey, you know what? If
29:05
you weren't expecting to listen to Martyrs Row
29:07
and hear about dead people. I'm not sure what
29:10
you were tuning in for. It's in the title. Here
29:14
we are. We don't talk to them. We talk about
29:16
them. Yeah. Okay. So we pray as we don't worship.
29:23
Or we gossip. Well, we're just like, hey, yeah,
29:27
this is dead person. He was kind of cool. Check
29:28
this out. It's not like, hey, dead person. Yeah,
29:31
that's fair. That's where you cross the line.
29:33
And become Catholic. Well, it turns out to be
29:38
a saint. That's fair. Yeah. To our Catholic brothers
29:43
and sisters. Peace to you. Peace be with you.
29:47
I can't remember which direction it is. And also
29:49
with you. Yeah. Peace be with you and also with
29:52
you. That would be a fun way to talk to somebody.
29:54
That would be, yeah. Oh, hey, bud. Hey, peace
29:57
be with you and also with you. It's like, wait,
29:59
what? Hey, bud, and also with you, bud. Nice
30:03
to see you. And nice to see you. Are you okay?
30:07
Get away from me. All right. Ouija boards. Yeah.
30:11
Yeah. Ouija boards. Yeah. So like there have
30:15
been those studies that will be like, oh yeah,
30:18
there is, there can be a level of like involuntary
30:20
movements. Okay. But then there are other like
30:23
crazy stories where people talk about, which
30:26
as far as I know, hasn't ever been observed any
30:28
of those studies that I've seen. but a lot of
30:31
witnesses that talk about it moving on its own.
30:35
Okay. Or other times where they're like, oh,
30:37
I'm trying to end the session. Yeah. And they're
30:40
unable to move the planchette to the goodbye
30:43
to close out. Okay, and what did you call it?
30:45
The planchette. That's the piece that you move
30:47
around. Planchette? Planchette. Planchette. Is
30:51
that also French? No, I think that comes from
30:55
like a Chinese word. Okay. Because it's like
30:58
the... This style of communication is pretty
31:02
old. Okay. But then it didn't actually become
31:05
like a Ouija board until whenever that game was
31:08
invented. Okay. But I think even the word, I
31:12
think, came about in like the 1800s, like the
31:14
first usage of it. Okay. So it's an ancient practice
31:18
that showed itself in a video, not a video game,
31:21
but a video game version would be terrifying.
31:24
No, thank you. There's got to be an app for it,
31:26
though. There probably is. Which that's, yeah,
31:29
interesting. I'm not going to look that up. No,
31:31
no thank you. I don't want to find out. You can
31:33
if you want. We don't recommend it though. Highly
31:35
do not recommend. Viewer discretion advised.
31:38
Yes. Okay, so. But yeah, so like there's the
31:42
pieces of it. So for those that don't know, yeah,
31:45
so it's a board with the alphabet on it. Okay.
31:49
And then you have the words yes and no. Okay.
31:52
And then I think there's a word that says goodbye.
31:53
I think that's all there is. And it's just to
31:56
like end it? Yeah. Okay. And so the way that
32:01
people are supposed to do it is like you sit
32:05
down and you have to call out to be like, okay,
32:08
like here we are. We're allowing the spirits
32:11
to come and talk to us. Oh, no. And you're like
32:13
starting the session. Okay. And then you start
32:16
asking questions. Yeah. And then if it starts
32:19
to move, that means you're in communication with
32:21
the spirit. Okay. Terrifying. And then the other
32:25
side of that is like, because there are rules
32:29
and warnings to be like, oh, if this happens,
32:31
you should get out. Oh, really? Or if this happens,
32:34
you should just like, yeah, don't touch it ever
32:36
again. Really? Yeah. That's interesting. And
32:38
like warnings. And then it's like, okay, when
32:40
you're done, and this is from what I've heard,
32:43
a lot of people don't do this because they get
32:46
spooked. Okay. Is like, oh, you have to close
32:49
this session or you're giving them authority
32:51
to keep. attaching to you yes and so that's where
32:55
the whole like you have got to like say like
32:57
oh all right we're out of here you're not allowed
32:59
to follow us anymore close the door yeah yeah
33:02
that's okay which i think is kind of like not
33:06
doing that much that shouldn't really be in like
33:08
like at walmart no yeah that's a little and then
33:12
there are rules where it's like okay and if it's
33:14
becoming a real problem for you then you should
33:17
like cut it into seven pieces and burn it oh
33:20
Which there have been stories about that even.
33:22
Okay. Where there's like a group of people that
33:25
one of the guys was not a believer in it. Yeah.
33:29
But the other friends are like, oh, yeah, let's
33:31
try this out. Yeah. And so they do it. And then
33:34
the other guy's like, yeah, you guys are making
33:35
this up. And the board spelled out like, I hate
33:39
that guy. Oh, no. And they're like, what? And
33:44
then so they're trying to convince this guy that
33:46
they're actually talking to a spirit. Okay. And
33:49
it starts like it dropped like a stop sign on
33:52
his head because they had like a sign like in
33:54
their house in their apartment. Yeah. And it
33:56
just fell off the wall and knocked the guy in
33:57
the head. No. And they're like, what? And then
34:00
they're like, okay, he doesn't believe. And then
34:02
still. And he's like, okay, I'm going to make
34:04
him vomit now. What? And the guy just started
34:06
involuntarily throwing up. Yeah. And then he's
34:11
like, I still don't believe it. And they're like,
34:12
okay. The board's like, I'm going to make him
34:13
go to sleep. What? And the guy just passed out
34:16
immediately. That's crazy. And then so they're
34:19
like, this is weird. Well, a lot of things happened
34:22
after that because then the board was like, I'm
34:24
going to kill you. Oh, wow. Which is not uncommon.
34:27
Not uncommon. No. At least in someone like the
34:30
people that are regularly using it. Yeah. So
34:33
it got wild. And then these people kind of just
34:35
tried to ignore it for a long time. Okay. And
34:38
stuff started happening in their just regular
34:41
life. Yeah. And they were having horrible dreams
34:43
and like seeing shadows in their house. Yikes.
34:46
And so the guy finally went to, one of the guys
34:49
was Catholic. He finally went to the nun. Okay.
34:52
And she's like. The nun. Okay. First off, you
34:54
got to go do confession. Yeah. And then second
34:57
of all, you've got to destroy that thing. So
35:00
she was like, this is what you do. Well, they
35:02
went to burn it, and they were like, it wouldn't
35:06
burn. What? They're like, we're dumping gasoline
35:09
on this thing. We've got all these logs. Everything
35:11
around it is burning, and it wouldn't burn. That's
35:14
wild. And it wasn't until they finally repented
35:17
to the Lord that it burned up. that's crazy it
35:21
was weird yeah and that's like not like a one
35:24
-off story yeah yeah stuff like that happened
35:27
there's thousands of stories like that that's
35:29
crazy yeah well that's terrifying it's horrifying
35:32
it's also like uh there's i mean there's so many
35:37
pieces to it that when it comes to what's actually
35:41
happening when you're doing the game none of
35:44
it or the or you're communicating, I guess it
35:47
just is a game at this point. Yeah. You're not
35:51
really like, you're either buying the game or
35:53
you're playing a game. Yeah. But at the same
35:56
time, it's like no part of it is not an ancient
36:00
ritual of speaking to spirits. Right. So like,
36:04
why are we doing that? It's crazy. Yeah. And
36:10
I think... I don't know if this has changed.
36:12
I'm hoping it's changed. I don't know if this
36:14
was similar to you and your experience growing
36:16
up, but it was like when you're in those young
36:19
teen years, it is something that people just
36:21
talked about. So personally, I've never done
36:24
it, and I don't ever want to. But there were
36:27
friends of mine like, oh, yeah, we're going to
36:28
play Ouija tonight. I'm like, heck no. And it
36:33
was just kind of like a spooky, fun, like let's
36:35
freak each other out. You know like the Bloody
36:38
Mary thing? Yes, I do. It's like that people
36:40
treated it, at least the group of people that
36:43
I was around growing up, some of them. Midwest
36:46
kids? Yeah, from Ohio. There's a lot of weird
36:49
stuff in Ohio. Fair, yeah. It was one of those
36:52
like, oh, let's spook ourselves and do this thing.
36:55
None of us ever thinking like this is real. It's
36:58
just like, let's scare each other. Yeah. But
37:01
you're not really scaring each other. No. So
37:05
that's always the intent, I guess, right? When
37:08
you're playing a Ouija board, it's like we can
37:11
make it say some weird stuff and then we freak
37:14
each other out. But then the story is like, well,
37:17
but it's not really us making the messages. Yes.
37:22
So that's not cool. I don't like this. No. And
37:26
even with that, there have been people that...
37:29
Like there's a guy who's like, oh, I'm going
37:31
to prove to my friends that this is real. Yeah.
37:33
And so he would go into another room and write
37:37
down something on a piece of paper. Okay. And
37:39
then they would ask the Ouija board what it said,
37:41
what he wrote down. Oh, geez. And it would say
37:44
it every time perfectly. That's crazy. It's weird.
37:46
Yeah. It is weird because nothing about it is
37:49
not like necromancy. Right. It's all divination.
37:53
It's literally what it is. Yes. The thing is,
37:59
I actually never had anybody be like, hey, you
38:03
want to play around with a Ouija board? That's
38:06
good. That never happened to me. I really needed
38:11
new friends growing up. Well, you have them now.
38:14
Yeah, that's true. You got rid of those. In the
38:17
past. Yeah. Okay, so you want to like, breaking
38:24
this down, what does this actually look like?
38:27
So like the spiritual process of this. Yeah.
38:31
And I think, well, so I'll, I'll try to answer
38:36
it this way, which may be like a little bit of
38:38
a sidestep, but tell me if I'm way off answering
38:40
your question. So with all the stories that there
38:46
are reports of people doing this and their experience
38:48
from it, one of the most common scene things.
38:52
And unfortunately, there's no like, these are
38:54
all verified stories. These are unverified stories.
38:56
Sure, yeah. But of the stories, one of the most
39:00
common things to see in there is one particular
39:03
figure who ends up communicating to the users.
39:07
Oh, okay. And this might be a familiar name to
39:11
some people. So it says what its name is? Yeah,
39:14
because they'll ask them. They'll ask it like,
39:16
what's your name? Okay. And then it'll spell
39:18
its name out. oh and that's like it's a common
39:21
name yeah uh well this is not a common name okay
39:24
but so like for example if they were like oh
39:28
we're talking to a spirit because we're like
39:30
is there a spirit present and then it'll move
39:32
to yes okay and it's like oh cool there is one
39:34
here yeah um like oh what's your name and then
39:38
it'll spell its name on like okay so and so like
39:41
how old are you that's like where are you from
39:44
you know it'll be like that kind of a conversation
39:47
okay yeah Um, but then oftentimes that's usually
39:50
how it starts. Yeah. But then all of a sudden
39:53
it's like people have reported like, Oh, it's
39:55
almost like the planchette became more aggressive
39:59
and moved differently. So it felt like we were
40:02
talking to a different spirit. Oh, then what,
40:06
how it originally started. Yeah. Okay. Like originally,
40:09
like it might've been slower and kind of like
40:11
just moving and all of a sudden it was like,
40:12
Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. And almost like, ripping
40:16
their hands as it moved. Okay, so what's the
40:18
common? So one of them is, it's the, identifies
40:24
itself as Zaza, Z -A -Z -A. Okay, and this is
40:29
one of the common spirits that names itself with
40:32
Ouija boards. Yeah, so they call it the Ouija
40:35
board demon. Tell me about this demon. It's crazy.
40:42
Well, and so what's funny about it. Tell me about
40:44
its Nephilim father. I mean, whoops. Well, so
40:52
what's crazy about it as well is that it's demons
40:57
lie. Fair. And so it's like, is that actually
41:01
its name? Yeah. I mean, but to be fair, it's
41:06
like. But that's how it's choosing to identify
41:08
itself. Yeah. Even if it's not its name, if that
41:13
is a common name throughout, then it's a little
41:17
bit like, well, at least they're consistent.
41:19
That's true. Yeah, and there are several variations
41:24
of that, which we'll get into, but I wanted to
41:26
start with that specific one to kind of open
41:30
up this side of it a little bit and the spiritual
41:32
side of it. Because when I first saw that name,
41:37
I was like, oh, this actually... interesting
41:40
because one specific thing came to mind when
41:43
I saw it. Especially when you hear about what
41:46
it does. The main thing it'll do is a lot of
41:51
people want to even after they encounter him
41:53
or it and it's terrifying and a lot of times
41:58
it'll end up being like I'm going to kill one
41:59
of your friends or I'm going to knock you out
42:01
or whatever. There is this idea like oh I have
42:04
access to something that I didn't before yes
42:07
because i can ask it questions about my friends
42:09
and it'll tell me and it's right yeah yeah it's
42:12
like so i have this you know hidden knowledge
42:14
that no one else does okay yeah and so there's
42:17
that allure to it so a lot of times people want
42:19
to keep interacting yeah until it goes so far
42:22
they're like i need to get out of this that's
42:23
wild which is crazy yeah okay um but so typically
42:27
when it when it takes a bad turn it it's away
42:32
from how it started and it becomes more aggressive
42:35
And it's one of these Ouija board demons. Yeah.
42:39
Okay. Yeah, pretty much. So it's pretty much
42:42
usually attributed to one of these demons. Yes.
42:45
That's crazy. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Which is
42:48
pretty wild. And so what's interesting to me
42:50
is that, so with that name, what we're looking
42:55
at is the last letter of the English alphabet
42:57
and the first. Okay. And so the part that struck
43:01
me with that is it seems like it's a direct opposite
43:04
of one of the names that God has given in the
43:07
New Testament, which is the Alpha and the Omega.
43:09
Oh, interesting. So it's like, so here it's like,
43:12
or there it's like we have what's like the people
43:15
there, they spoke Greek. Yeah, yeah. That was
43:18
the common tongue. Right. So it makes sense to
43:20
utilize the Greek alphabet. Okay. So saying that
43:24
he's the Alpha, he's the first and the last.
43:26
Right. But then here, it's like, we don't speak
43:28
Greek over here. Right, that's true. And a lot
43:30
of these stories are from English speakers, and
43:33
yet they're like, oh, it identified itself as
43:36
the last and the first. Yeah, that's weird. I
43:40
was like, oh, that's actually really interesting.
43:42
That is interesting. I don't know that I would
43:44
have put that together. Yeah, it kind of just
43:46
hit me in my head, and I was like, wait, hold
43:47
on, that's crazy. Yeah, that's interesting. But
43:50
so here's the thing that I left out when I first
43:52
started this. Okay. Which... It was one of those
43:55
at first I was like, oh, this might throw a wrench
43:57
in it. Okay. In my little hypothesis here. No,
44:00
no. But actually I think it opened up something
44:02
else that was really interesting. Yeah. And this,
44:04
of course, is my, you know, red yarn theory.
44:08
Okay. Yeah. Of like, let's connect some weird
44:10
dots. Let's connect the dots. Yeah. And so the
44:14
most common name. Yeah. Which is, they're all
44:17
believed to just be variations. Okay. So, because.
44:21
There's like some very interesting, so they kind
44:24
of look at the behaviors of the spirit that identifies
44:26
itself in these ways. Okay. And it's typically
44:28
Z names. Yes. So like one of them would be like
44:33
Zomo. Okay. The weirdest one is Mama. That is.
44:37
It would call itself, which that's a whole other
44:39
path to go down. Yeah. But the most common one
44:42
that people see is Zozo, Z -O -Z -O. Okay. I
44:46
should say it's funny because a lot of the. People
44:48
that I've listened to talking about this or stories,
44:51
they're afraid of saying the name. Okay. Because
44:55
they're like, oh, it's going to summon it. Oh,
44:56
interesting. And I was like, you know, I was
44:58
thinking about that, especially today as I knew
45:00
we were going to record this. Yeah. And I was
45:03
like, you know what? I don't know if it's even
45:06
worth giving it that much credit. Yeah. Depending
45:09
on what standing you're in. That's fair. So I'm
45:13
kind of jumping ahead of my notes here a little
45:15
bit. We'll come back to this. Yeah. But I think
45:17
it's interesting because of a lot of the exorcists
45:22
that I've listened to or read. One of the biggest
45:26
things they say is like demons are very legalistic.
45:29
Sure. In that they care a lot about like, oh,
45:33
if you give it a piece of authority, it's like,
45:35
that's mine. Yeah. And they're like, even though
45:37
it might not manifest or reveal itself or take
45:40
hold of that authority immediately or ever, it
45:43
doesn't mean it doesn't have it. Okay. Yeah.
45:46
And so that's one of the big things they say
45:48
with people. Actually, there is one recently
45:53
I heard where. this exorcist was telling a story
45:56
about a guy who had some unrepentant sin. Yeah.
46:00
And he was one of the helpers for an exorcism.
46:02
Okay. And the demon ended up jumping and attaching
46:05
into him. Oh no. Because it's like, well, he
46:08
wasn't prepared and he had already given that
46:11
authority to that demon. Yeah. And was unrepentant
46:15
of it. And so it's not like this demon suddenly
46:18
just got authority. It's like, no, it already
46:20
had it. Yeah. And it wanted to show off. Oh no.
46:24
And so it's like, I think that's the scary thing.
46:27
And that's where it's like, well, how do you
46:28
give it authority? How do you give demons authority?
46:30
It's like, well, it's through unrepentant sin.
46:33
Yeah. And I think that's where it's like, there's
46:36
the Catholic practice of confession. Right. And
46:39
then there's the, what am I looking for? Protestant.
46:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's the Protestant approach.
46:46
The other side. Which is just like, no, just
46:48
say you're sorry to God and have your. your brothers
46:52
keep you accountable, the other people of the
46:55
church. Yes. I say brothers because I'm a male.
46:58
That's fair. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, confess
47:01
your sins to one another and to God. Yes. And
47:05
I think that's one of the main things. If you
47:07
don't give it that authority and if you take
47:09
that authority away through repentance, then
47:11
it doesn't have a hold on you. Yes. And so those
47:16
things, they don't have that stake to take over.
47:20
Yeah. I mean, and that makes sense in the element
47:24
of humans are vessels. And really what we're
47:29
talking about is there's like this opportunity
47:33
for there to be this empty vessel of a game that
47:38
potentially like a squirrel carrying rabies.
47:43
Right. It's like there's this. portal or this
47:47
gateway and this opportunity in this. And if
47:50
you, even if you are a, um, if you are a repentant
47:54
Christian and, but you open a door in that sense,
48:00
you are, you have sinned. Yes. Because you are
48:04
opening up what, what is only the Lord's an opportunity
48:10
for other spirits to have dominion. Right. And
48:14
it's funny because I know you mentioned a lot
48:18
of exorcists and a lot of these people talk about
48:23
the legalism or the legalese of demons and spirits
48:28
like that. It's like, that's true. I've heard
48:31
that a lot. But the thing is, I actually think
48:36
it's not that they are legalistic. It's that
48:41
they are... under a sovereign rule god yes so
48:46
they only have they only have the ability what
48:50
they have yes yeah so what they're given right
48:53
so so a demon isn't legalistic it has to follow
48:58
the laws yes right so it's bound to the laws
49:02
so if which means that if a demon is legalistic
49:06
and is bound to laws then it's bound to the laws
49:11
of the creator God, the sovereign God of all.
49:14
Which is why the themes of the Bible of saying
49:18
there is nothing to fear because all are under
49:23
the authority of Yahweh, of God himself. So if
49:30
you repent, turn away, and you live under the
49:34
authority of God, then... The other things that
49:39
you could possibly have to fear have no authority.
49:44
Right. And so and they are bound to law not to
49:48
break those laws. So therefore, you don't have
49:52
anything to fear because they can't do anything
49:55
legally. Right. I mean, that's and we see that
49:58
consistently. And they can't break the law. Right.
50:01
Which is that's the thing that is hard for us
50:04
to understand. Yeah, and it's like I think there's,
50:07
and that's part of the fear side of it where
50:10
it's like they've done a very good job. Right.
50:13
And I think part of that, maybe this is going
50:16
to make me sound like an old man. Okay. It's
50:18
like even when it's like when it comes to like
50:20
scary movies. Yeah, yeah. Or things that scare
50:22
us. Sure. It's like, yeah, we're basically showing
50:25
them what scares us. Yes. And they want us to
50:28
be afraid. Absolutely. Because that's how they,
50:30
that's one of the ways they maintain control
50:31
of us. Yes. But with that, it's like. they only
50:36
have, like you were saying, it's like they only
50:38
have the authority that we give them. Yes. But
50:40
also, more so than that, is they only have the
50:43
permission that God gives them. Correct. And
50:46
we even see that with the Legion in New Testament.
50:50
Yeah. And it's like, well, Jesus is like, you
50:53
got to get out of here. Yes. They're like, okay,
50:55
but can we go into pigs instead? Right. Yeah,
50:57
yeah. And it's like they had to ask permission
51:00
to be like, can we please do that? Absolutely.
51:03
And let me take it to the hottest topic. Yeah.
51:07
So there's a discussion around like, okay, so
51:11
demons or spirit beings, they, unlike human beings,
51:20
human beings have, the free will to sin against
51:25
God and break the laws of God. Yeah. Unfortunately.
51:29
Very unfortunate. But also fortunate in the sense
51:33
that we're able to choose him. Yes. But because
51:36
we can break the laws, if we do not choose him,
51:41
then we reap the judgment of that. Yeah. Spiritual
51:44
beings cannot break the laws. Right. Now they
51:49
can. That gets confusing because you go like,
51:51
well, what do you mean they can't break the laws?
51:53
Because if there are spirit beings that have
51:58
fallen away from God and lost favor with God,
52:01
doesn't that mean that they broke the law? Yes,
52:05
but not without authority. Right. So that's the
52:08
thing that gets tricky because then you go, all
52:10
right, so what do you mean that the angels fell,
52:13
but they weren't allowed to break the law? So
52:16
how did they fall and they couldn't break the
52:18
law? They were given permission. So when we talk
52:22
about like, that's why it makes sense when you
52:25
get to the conversation. Like if you follow the
52:28
conversation of Genesis 6 and the conversation
52:31
of... the sons of God or the spirit beings, the
52:39
angelic beings, these non -human beings. Yeah.
52:45
Well, yeah, yeah, sorry. Mating with the daughters
52:48
of man. Yes. So that is a law that has a boundary
52:53
that they actually are not able to just do. Right.
52:58
So then there's a discussion around, well, that
53:01
probably what they did was is they asked permission
53:05
of the fathers of the daughters. Yeah, they were
53:09
given permission. And they were, they would have
53:11
been, and you go, all right, but that's not in
53:13
Genesis chapter six. Right. Okay. But follow
53:17
me logically. So, because if you go to the book
53:22
of the watchers, Enoch one, this is all there,
53:25
but follow me logically with just what is in.
53:29
The scripture. The canonical scripture. So if
53:33
we talk about just that, then you go, okay, if
53:36
spirit beings or if non -human beings that are
53:43
angelic beings, I keep stumbling on that because
53:48
it's not that they're not physical. And it's
53:52
also tough because I think that's part of it
53:54
because our vocabulary around... the spirit world
53:57
is very poor. Well, and people right now are,
54:00
it's hard to not go like, all right, well, if
54:03
they're not spirit, ethereal, non -tangible.
54:08
but they are tangible the way that we are tangible,
54:11
then they're aliens. And it's like, technically
54:13
they are aliens, but they're not what you're
54:15
talking about. Not that. So it's like, so that's
54:20
what I mean. So logically, if we go, all right,
54:23
the sons of God made it, looked down on the daughters
54:27
of man and saw that they were beautiful and lay
54:31
with the daughters of man. They cannot break
54:33
the law that God sets into place, which means
54:36
that they have to have been given permission,
54:39
and they don't have to get permission from God.
54:44
That's the thing that we miss. So you have to
54:47
go, all right, well, who do they get permission
54:48
from? Well, back then, they didn't have to get
54:52
permission from the daughters of men. They would
54:55
have to get permission from the men who have
54:58
the daughters. Just like... the men who go to
55:03
Sodom and Gomorrah and Lot says, here, have my
55:05
daughters. Right. He literally does Genesis 6
55:09
to people. And so it's that whole thing where
55:13
you go, okay, so then there was permission given
55:18
in order for the sons of God to lay with the
55:21
daughters of men. Still against God's law. And
55:24
not under God's permission, they were able to
55:27
sin even though they are not allowed to break
55:30
the laws. Yeah. I mean, it's a logical conclusion.
55:35
Yeah, I think so. It seems to follow. So it's
55:38
like without even looking at Enoch 1, the Book
55:42
of the Watchers, it's like, well, if the sons
55:46
of God are the Elohim that are lesser gods, that
55:54
mate with the daughters of men, they weren't
55:57
allowed to do that and they cannot break the
56:00
laws of God. Therefore, they had to get legal
56:03
permission under the guardrails and the boundaries
56:09
that God had set in place. Yeah. So their loophole
56:12
was to ask the men. Yeah. Yeah, and it's funny
56:17
because with that, I guess following... I don't
56:19
know how we got there. No, but it makes sense.
56:22
Well, it's kind of like a funny way to show even
56:26
permission with that. Yes. It's like on several
56:30
levels. One of the things I like to think about
56:34
is demons are just the cockroaches of the underworld
56:36
or the spirit world, which is pretty true. They're
56:41
just picking up scraps where they can. Yeah,
56:43
fair. But it's like when we think about it, it's
56:45
like, okay, so no one wants cockroaches in their
56:47
house. Right. But if I left the door open, yes
56:51
and i left food on the counter yes i'm gonna
56:54
get cockroaches yeah and then i'd be like well
56:56
i didn't ask for this i don't want this and it's
56:59
like yeah you might not want it but you opened
57:02
a door yes and then on the other side of it and
57:05
this is where you're coming from is the idea
57:08
of let's say i am i mean i could be in the house
57:13
let's say i'm gone for the weekend i'm asking
57:14
a friend to look out for my house yeah And they're
57:17
in charge of my house while I'm not there. And
57:20
they leave the door open and they leave food
57:22
on the counter. Yeah. And now I have cockroaches.
57:25
Yeah. I didn't ask for that. It's like, yeah,
57:27
but someone who had authority over your property
57:30
made a decision that affected you. Yeah. And
57:33
that's the unfortunate part of it. Right. Yeah.
57:37
Yeah, that's tricky. And it's like, yeah, you
57:38
didn't do anything wrong, but... So now the thing
57:42
on your side is now you have to forgive and break
57:45
all of those ties that are attached to you, which
57:48
you can do through the Lord. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
57:53
So in this way, it's the idea of like, well,
57:56
if you're a Christian, aren't these things harmless?
57:58
No. Right. And that's the trap that we can often
58:02
fall into on the other side of it is like, well,
58:04
I can do whatever because it doesn't matter.
58:06
Correct. Well, no, that's not how that works.
58:08
Well, it's like if you don't walk into a fire,
58:11
you can't get burned. Right. But if you do walk
58:14
into a fire, you will burn. Yes. So it's like,
58:18
okay, but when I'm not in the fire, I'm not burning.
58:24
Okay. And? As soon as you get into it, you're
58:27
going to start burning. Yeah, stay out of the
58:29
fire. It's like just because you have... received
58:34
salvation and you call jesus lord but then you
58:38
do something that is the opposite of that yes
58:41
you're you're allowing under the sovereign law
58:47
of god for another like this is where this is
58:52
where i would get into the idea of blaspheming
58:55
god like blaspheming the name of god would be
58:59
i I think that there's an element to that where
59:04
it is, um, opening the door to other spirits
59:08
to take ownership of what is rightly the Lord's.
59:12
Yes. So like that, that's how I see that. Like
59:15
when you blaspheme the name of God, it's not,
59:18
it's not, or you take the Lord's name in vain.
59:22
It's, it's not a curse word. No. Cause actually,
59:26
interestingly, that's something that's never
59:30
been recorded a demon actually doing, which is
59:33
using the Lord's name in vain. They probably
59:35
can't. They'll swear and they'll curse, but they'll
59:39
never blaspheme God's name. That's interesting.
59:42
Yeah. So we're the only ones that can do that.
59:47
Yeah. And we get a little casual with it sometimes.
59:50
That's true. Well, I would say anytime it's done.
59:54
Yeah. Yes. But my point in that is like, yes,
59:58
that, that it's not necessarily what you're saying.
1:00:01
And like, if you're saying that it's not harmless,
1:00:03
but it's an outward expression of the condition
1:00:06
of the heart. And so it's that element of like,
1:00:09
you know, cursing is not necessarily, it's, it's
1:00:14
like, it depends on where your heart's at on
1:00:16
that. But when you're specifically. Well, using
1:00:19
a crude or like a swear word. Yes. Quote unquote.
1:00:25
isn't necessarily like inherently a bad thing
1:00:28
right but if you're using it to condemn somebody
1:00:31
that's true that's when it's like okay that's
1:00:33
a huge issue yeah and it almost doesn't matter
1:00:35
what words you're saying right and i think that's
1:00:37
the part we miss sometimes too it's like if you
1:00:40
if your words are meant to put ill on somebody
1:00:43
yes that's cursing them it is yeah quite literally
1:00:47
actually yes yes yeah you're putting a curse
1:00:51
on them yeah absolutely yeah which You're practicing
1:00:54
divination at that point. Yes. Get away from
1:00:57
that. Which that is an element of like you have
1:01:01
to be careful who prays for you. Yes. You have
1:01:04
to put on the armor of God as Paul talks about
1:01:07
in Ephesians because there can be things that
1:01:10
come at you from other people. Yes. So like it
1:01:14
could be that like you haven't left your door
1:01:16
open, but someone's trying to open your door
1:01:18
without you knowing. Yeah. That could also be
1:01:21
happening. Yeah. A hundred percent. And that's
1:01:23
where it's like, you have to have the armor on.
1:01:26
And so this is a scenario. This is a game that
1:01:29
like nullifies all of that. Right. You're just
1:01:33
going, Hey, let's open all the doors and all
1:01:35
the windows to your soul. Come on in. Yeah. Yeah.
1:01:38
Which is horrifying. It also like makes me think
1:01:41
about confession in a different way, a little
1:01:43
bit too, because like what condition are, and,
1:01:46
and what, what protections by God would a priest
1:01:51
have? If he's constantly getting hit with all
1:01:54
this stuff. Yeah. He would need a lot. Yeah,
1:01:59
it's almost like. A lot of prayer. He would almost
1:02:00
need to repent the repented. Which they, priests
1:02:06
also take confession. Right. Yeah. They're supposed
1:02:10
to. Yes, they are supposed to. That's fair. That's
1:02:13
fair. But yeah, so. I want to quickly hit this
1:02:18
just because I think it's fun. Yeah, yeah. And
1:02:19
because I opened it up and I was like, I feel
1:02:21
like I got to tie it down. Yeah, yeah. Let's
1:02:23
tie it up. Especially after you went through
1:02:24
all of like the meat of it. Right. Like this
1:02:26
is bad, here's why. Yeah, fair. And so I opened
1:02:32
up the more common variant of the name. Okay.
1:02:35
Of the Ouija board demon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's
1:02:39
spelled Z -O -Z -O. Yeah. And so for me, I was
1:02:41
kind of like, oh, well, what do I do with that?
1:02:44
Yeah. And so it got a little bit weird. I went
1:02:47
down, like I said, it was my red yarn theory.
1:02:51
But I don't think it was like, I don't think
1:02:53
it's that far down, but here we go anyway. So
1:02:55
it's kind of fun. Where do I start? So Z -O -Z
1:03:02
-O. Yes. So the letter O. Okay. I love when it
1:03:10
starts this way. The letter O. Is the 15th letter
1:03:14
in the English alphabet. Okay. And so I was like,
1:03:16
all right, so is there anything significant about
1:03:20
that number within ancient Hebrew? Okay. And
1:03:25
I was like, let's just see what happens. Yeah,
1:03:26
yeah, yeah. So interestingly, it's not a widely
1:03:32
recognized symbolic meaning in the way that numbers
1:03:36
like 3, 7, 10, 12, or 40 are. Okay, right. However.
1:03:42
There are some notable occurrences. Okay, of
1:03:45
the number 15. Of the number 15. Yes. So the
1:03:48
15th day of the month is significant because
1:03:50
several Jewish feasts begin then, namely Passover
1:03:53
and the Feast of Tabernacles. So these feasts
1:03:57
are associated with redemption and rejoicing.
1:03:59
Yeah, I mean that's, or is that Feast of Weeks,
1:04:04
the covenant? Feast of Weeks is covenant. Yeah.
1:04:08
Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then there are five songs
1:04:18
of ascents in the Psalms. So the Psalm is 120
1:04:21
through 134. But there's no real insight into
1:04:26
why exactly there are 15. Okay. But also the
1:04:30
idea of ascents is like, that's kind of interesting.
1:04:33
But then also Hezekiah was granted 15 additional
1:04:38
years of life, which we see in 2 Kings 26 and
1:04:42
Isaiah 38 .5. But the most interesting one to
1:04:45
me, which is where we lead down to, is that in
1:04:51
ancient Hebrew, 15 is written as tet vav. Remember
1:04:57
I'm a non -ancient non -Jew? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:05:00
Instead of the expected form Yad -Heh. Okay.
1:05:04
So the reason for this is that Yad -Heh forms
1:05:08
the first two letters of the divine name, which
1:05:11
is the Tetragrammaton. Okay. And out of reverence,
1:05:16
the scribes avoid writing the number 15 that
1:05:18
way. So the number 15 in Hebrew was an indirect
1:05:22
association to the first two letters of God's
1:05:25
name. Interesting. Yeah. And so then I was like,
1:05:29
oh, well, that's interesting. Yeah. So if the
1:05:32
second letter, if we follow that association,
1:05:35
if that's the first two letters of the name,
1:05:38
that's kind of like. the A would have been. So
1:05:42
I was like, okay, well, that's interesting. So
1:05:43
let's look at Z, number 26. And so this one isn't
1:05:47
as clean as the first walkthrough. But the other
1:05:51
thing that's interesting is that number is also
1:05:53
associated with the Tetragrammaton. Okay. As
1:05:57
that is the numeric value of Yahweh, the name
1:06:00
Yahweh. Is 26? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting.
1:06:04
And so this also sometimes appears symbolically
1:06:07
in later Jewish writings, manuscripts, and architecture
1:06:10
as a way of referring to God without writing
1:06:13
the name itself. Okay. They'll write, you know,
1:06:16
26. Interesting. Since that's his numeric value.
1:06:20
Yeah. So in a weird way, the name Z -O -Z -O
1:06:26
is like this weird inversion twist of... Of Yahweh.
1:06:32
Of Yahweh. Fair, because it's the beginning two
1:06:36
letters on the end and then the whole as the
1:06:41
beginning. Yeah. That's weird. Which is really
1:06:43
weird. So it's 26, 15, 26, 15. Yes. That's creepy.
1:06:47
Which is creepy. Yeah. And so, like I said, it's
1:06:50
not as clean as Z -A -Z -A, but it's still like
1:06:54
this weird twist. In some ways, it's even closer.
1:06:57
You might be right. You know what I mean? Which
1:07:00
in Zio is the most common. that we see of the
1:07:03
name. Yeah, I mean, that would be taking Yahweh's
1:07:06
name and inverting it. Yes. So it's even closer
1:07:10
than Alpha Omega. Yeah, that's actually very
1:07:12
true. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so I found
1:07:15
that very weird, which is why it struck me even
1:07:18
when I heard the Z -A -Z -A name. Yeah. Because
1:07:21
I was like, this is just a clean... it seems
1:07:25
like kind of a slap in the face of like, this
1:07:27
is the antichrist or the spirit of that where
1:07:31
it's like, and what it wants is the inverse of
1:07:34
what, what Christ did. Yeah. Which is really
1:07:38
what any demonic entity would want. Right. And
1:07:43
that makes sense. That's okay. So, um, that's
1:07:49
interesting. So that was my little, my little,
1:07:53
uh, let's have fun with this theory. Yeah. So
1:07:57
Deuteronomy chapter 18, 10 through 11 says, there
1:08:01
shall not be found among you anyone who practices
1:08:04
divination or a medium or a spiritist or one
1:08:08
who calls up the dead. So quite literally it
1:08:12
says to the children of Israel, there should
1:08:17
be no one among you who plays with a Ouija board.
1:08:21
Yes. That's, And, yeah. So, yeah, that's very
1:08:27
interesting. And I think it's one, which, like,
1:08:30
even the reason why I was like, oh, let's talk
1:08:32
about this, and even me going down that, is like,
1:08:36
yeah, at the forefront or at the baseline, don't
1:08:39
do it because Scripture is very blatantly condemning
1:08:43
its practice. Do you know what the most famous
1:08:45
biblical necromancer was? Solomon? No, he sought
1:08:56
them. Are you talking about Saul? It would be
1:09:01
who Saul sought. Oh, yes. Who did Saul seek?
1:09:05
Saul sought Samuel. No. Yeah. Well, he sought
1:09:09
the witch in Endor. That's who I'm talking about.
1:09:11
Oh, okay. So the witch in Endor. But I guess
1:09:14
he was trying to communicate with Samuel. Samuel
1:09:16
was not a necromancer. Right. He was necromanced?
1:09:21
Oh, I've been necromanced. Darn it. I mean, if
1:09:25
you played on a Ouija board, that's what happened
1:09:28
to you. I've been necromanced. You call in on
1:09:33
Monday. Sorry, boss. I can't make it to work
1:09:36
today. I've been necromanced. What? And he hangs
1:09:41
up the phone. Do you know what the kids are doing
1:09:43
these days? This new generation is just wild.
1:09:48
But the medium of Endor is in 1 Samuel 28 is
1:09:51
the Bible's most famous account of necromancy.
1:09:54
Having been abandoned by God because of his disobedience,
1:09:57
Saul sought out a medium to summon Samuel instead
1:10:01
of seeking the Lord. Yes. That sounds like what
1:10:04
every Catholic does. I mean, to be fair, but
1:10:11
in Saul's actions are later condemned. First
1:10:14
Chronicles 10, 13 through 14. So Saul died for
1:10:18
his unfaithfulness because he asked counsel of
1:10:22
a medium making inquiry of it and did not inquire
1:10:26
of the Lord, which goes back to the original
1:10:29
sin. That's what I keep saying is like the original
1:10:35
sin. is not pride it's seeking knowledge outside
1:10:39
of relationship with god correct yeah and yes
1:10:42
there is pride in that but it's not pride it's
1:10:46
seeking knowledge apart from god yeah so sin
1:10:49
it's seeking to do it our own way exactly it's
1:10:52
like i want the knowledge but i want it the way
1:10:53
i want it and that can be characterized as prideful
1:10:56
yeah but what you're actually Doing is seeking
1:11:00
knowledge outside of God. The condition of your
1:11:02
heart is prideful. So it's one of those things
1:11:05
where you go, all right, so Saul did this a lot.
1:11:09
Yeah. Where he was like, forget it. I'm going
1:11:13
to go just like figure out who can give me an
1:11:15
answer. Like I need help here. And the Lord's
1:11:18
like, no, I told you, come talk to me. And he
1:11:24
just didn't do it. But it doesn't work the way
1:11:25
I want it to work. But we'll have a faster. But
1:11:29
yeah, so he went and did that. And then 1 Chronicles
1:11:32
says that that's why he died, because his unfaithfulness
1:11:35
in that. Yeah. So the spirit of God was lifted
1:11:39
off of him. The anointing for kingship was lifted
1:11:43
off of him because he sought mediums. Yeah. So
1:11:47
he went around the Lord for knowledge. He went
1:11:50
straight to the enemy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I
1:11:54
think that's like the one interesting piece.
1:11:56
to this is like a big distinction is where one
1:12:01
side offers the opportunity for hidden knowledge
1:12:09
and this wealth of, oh yes, this is something
1:12:13
that can be yours. But someone doesn't want you
1:12:17
to have it. But you can have it. And it's like,
1:12:20
they don't know what they're talking about. Because
1:12:21
what Yahweh has done is for everybody's sake
1:12:25
yeah is he offers wisdom and knowledge um within
1:12:30
limits right and those adjust because they're
1:12:34
even with prophecies it's like there was uh you
1:12:37
know words that he gave to daniel that he told
1:12:39
not to not to reveal to everybody right that
1:12:42
were then revealed in revelation yeah and it's
1:12:45
like well yeah he gave him knowledge but it was
1:12:47
with a limitation sure But that later was lifted
1:12:51
when the time was right. And so Yahweh says,
1:12:54
yeah, this can be for you, but not right now.
1:12:57
Yes. Whereas the other side says, oh, you can
1:13:01
have it right now. Right. Yeah. And then you'll
1:13:05
die. Yeah. All I want is your soul. Well, and
1:13:08
that's what happens every single time. I mean,
1:13:10
that's Genesis 3. It's like, you can have this
1:13:13
knowledge when you need it, or you'll be fine
1:13:16
if you just get it now. Right. Why wait? That's
1:13:19
essentially what the serpent was saying. Yeah,
1:13:21
he's a used car salesman. Yeah. Yeah, why wait?
1:13:26
Hungry? Grab a Snickers. Yeah. It's like, no,
1:13:29
I need to wait and not eat a candy bar and actually
1:13:33
go home and eat a meal. What if the fruit was
1:13:34
a Snickers? Probably was. You don't have the
1:13:38
same when you're hungry. Oh, cocoa? Chocolate
1:13:41
and caramel? Oh. Oh. Chocolate and caramel. So
1:13:51
that, but that's the thing is like, that's what
1:13:53
was being offered. Wasn't like this. It was basically
1:13:56
just like, hey, yeah, the Lord gives you knowledge.
1:13:59
You have to wait until he gives it to you. Yeah.
1:14:02
Or like, why don't you just get it all right
1:14:04
now? Why wait on him? And that's essentially
1:14:08
what happened. Yeah. So like that keeps happening
1:14:11
over and over and over again. Yes. And that's,
1:14:14
that's where we're falling for the same lie.
1:14:15
Well, and that's where we have to, exactly. And
1:14:18
that's where we have to be safe and be like,
1:14:19
all right, like if you start to get, if you start
1:14:23
to be afraid in a moment, you can just simply
1:14:26
go, wait, there's, there's a legal issue with
1:14:32
anything causing me harm. Yes. There's a legal
1:14:37
issue right now. And so if I know that and I
1:14:40
have assurance of that, then what is there to
1:14:42
fear? Yes. There is nothing to fear. But if I
1:14:46
give into fear, then there is something to fear.
1:14:50
Yes. Because now I've opened the door for things
1:14:53
to harm me. Yeah. And it's like you should be
1:14:57
afraid at that point. Yes, because you're vulnerable.
1:15:00
Exactly. So if you play a Ouija board, you should
1:15:04
be afraid. Yes. Because you are quite literally
1:15:08
opening the door and breaking the legal boundary
1:15:11
by which you would be protected in your relationship
1:15:14
with God by opening the door and giving legal
1:15:18
precedent for fear to enter in. Yeah. I mean,
1:15:23
there's been stories that I've heard from ex
1:15:27
-Satanists that have converted to Christianity.
1:15:30
And some of them, well, one of them in particular
1:15:32
was like very, very, very high up in it. And
1:15:36
one of the things that he talks about, I don't
1:15:37
know if you've heard this. I think I know who
1:15:39
you're talking about. Great, I can't remember
1:15:40
his name, but he's really amazing. And one of
1:15:43
the things he talks about is the armor of God.
1:15:45
He kind of harps on that a lot. And why he does
1:15:48
that is he talks about, he's like, yeah, inside
1:15:51
of the spirit world when you're looking through
1:15:54
your third eye, I can't remember exactly how
1:15:56
he talks about it, but it's like you can actually
1:15:58
see it because people look different. He's like,
1:16:01
when someone's a Christian who is fully equipped
1:16:03
with the armor of God, there's actually like
1:16:05
a glow around them. Yeah. And you have very little
1:16:09
access to do anything to them. Yeah. The only
1:16:12
access that you're given has to go up with the
1:16:14
big guy first. Right. Which for them, they'll
1:16:17
contact whatever local demon that they're talking
1:16:20
to. Yeah. And that demon will have to be given
1:16:22
permission. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, and there's
1:16:26
been so many stories of like, Oh yeah. I wanted
1:16:29
to do harm to this guy and I physically could
1:16:31
not touch him. Yeah. That's crazy. Also that
1:16:34
like somebody's like, yeah, I like interacted
1:16:38
with demons and I had to go to them and see if
1:16:43
they could get permission from the big guy. Yeah.
1:16:46
Wait, what? Yeah. Shouldn't you just convert
1:16:50
now? Also, right. It's like, wait, so you're
1:16:53
telling me you're not a Christian? Yeah. So you're
1:16:58
asking demons to go talk to God. So what kind
1:17:03
of Catholic are you? They're just getting bombarded
1:17:11
today. So should you play with a Ouija board?
1:17:18
No. Do not do it because you're opening the door
1:17:22
and roaches are going to get in and gross. Don't
1:17:24
do that. Don't do it. So Ouija board, kids. Not
1:17:27
a game. Even if your name's Luigi. What's the
1:17:30
tagline again? Oh, is it something? Keep telling
1:17:35
yourself it's real. Guess what? It is real. Yes.
1:17:39
And stop doing it. Immediately. Three, two, one.