Latest / Chasing Baseball Dreams / 35: All The Smoke's Matt Barnes | Why Parents Push Kids Too Hard in Youth Sports
Transcript
- Matt Barnes: And I feel like in the States, it's parents are probably the worst part about of kids' sports. And then the next worst part is just the way they try to capitalize financially off a ton of tournaments and charging X amount of dollars to play on on this travel baseball team. And it's again, it's less about development and more about. social media and kinda just really making money off these kids. Bobby Minor: And welcome back to Chasing Baseball Dreams. Today My guest spent 14 seasons in the NBA, won an NBA championship with the Golden State Warriors, and has since built Matt Barnes: Yeah. Bobby Minor: probably the biggest sports podcast in the world. Alongside Steven Jackson, Matt Barnes: Yeah. Bobby Minor: he's interviewed everyone from President Barack Obama, Kobe Bryant, Matt Barnes: Did I? Bobby Minor: baseball legends like King Griffey Jr., CC Sabathia, and he's taken that success now into baseball, launching all the smoke baseball. And he's also a Matt Barnes: With that humor thought. Ma'am. Bobby Minor: I know all about dad, so it's all good. But he's launched all the smoke baseball and his flagship show, ATS dugout, alongside former MOB All-Stars Nick Swisher and Chris Young. He grew up playing baseball himself. And today we're going to get into his perspective as a dad raising young athletes. So Matt Barnes, welcome to the Chasing Baseball Dreams Podcast. Matt Barnes: Man, thank you for having me. Congratulations on the show. Like I was telling you before, I saw your Pedroya interview. And he's from my way. He I'm from SAC. I think he's Victorville or somewhere. Or not Victorville. I forgot where it's called. Anyway, it's not too far from where I'm from because I Bobby Minor: yeah. Matt Barnes: had friends that were playing baseball against him at the time and kind of really followed his journey and been a fan of his. And I saw you interviewed him and I thought that was dope. And then obviously you show a lot of love on all the smoke. dugouts page, man. So it it's an honor to sit down and talk with you today. Bobby Minor: The honor is all mine. And you mention it's funny you mentioned Victorville. I was telling you before the show that my son played at a JUCO out in California last year, and they actually played Victorville. So in conference. Matt Barnes: Yeah. Victorville's in So in SoCow, but the he's Backaville or something like that, but he's out my way. But yeah, yep. Bobby Minor: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So all right, Matt, so so growing up, you played baseball, basketball, football, ran track. If somebody would have told you, like at ten or eleven, Matt, you gotta pick just one, do you think you would have ever made it to the NBA? Matt Barnes: I would have picked football. Football is my first sport. I think I was just naturally gifted at that. You know, I wasn't just a tall, fast guy. Like I could run routes and catch and take hits and and deliver hits and I actually led the nation in touchdowns my senior year. so if I would have had to choose at eleven, I would have chose football. you know, I I chose basketball for the longevity, but I think playing all those sports and getting the key messages and and skill sets from each of those sports helped me play, a long NBA career. Bobby Minor: Yeah. So up to what age, like at what age did you stop playing some of these other sports like baseball? Matt Barnes: all the w so baseball stopped after my or going into my junior year. but from Bobby Minor: Okay. Matt Barnes: little league from like shoot, six or seven till about sixteen. And then football went the whole time, basketball went the whole time, and then track I did for a couple of years just in between, just to kind of s stay out of trouble and stay fast in my off season. Bye beer. Bobby Minor: Okay. So you could have been another Dave Winfield getting drafted by MLB, MBA and NFL. Matt Barnes: Man. obviously Winfield's one of the greatest. Had a chance to sit down with him and and he was a multi sport star in and drafted. You know, and I don't say this disrespectfully because I know what it takes to get to the top. I and and some guys just thought, I can do that. Like I felt like I could have been if I would have picked football as my main sport, I definitely could have made it. to the NFL and and made an impact, being 6'8, I ran a four three nine at a at a at a Vegas football camp. big strong can catch. but I just don't think I would have lasted long. You know, that's back in, you know, the early two thousands where they could still take your head off and and and do all that kind of stuff I grew up on. So glad I picked basketball, but there's not a day I don't think about kind of what if I would have played football. Bobby Minor: Man, that that that would have definitely been interesting to see. I'm trying think of some some of the taller receivers that have been out there. Maybe like a he'll hear he'll call Michael. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Barnes: Harold Carmichael Har Harold Carbackle back in the day. And then obviously, he was 6'7. And then Megatron was 6'4. Randy Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: Moss was 6'4. you know, but being 6'8, you know, I'm four inches bigger than those guys and and kind of a bigger Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: body as well. So football was fun. I had an absolute blast. And I think the toughness, I always looked at myself as kind of a football player that ended up playing basketball for a career. Like I used to run the lanes like a receiver. and have Chris Paul or one of my point guards dish and I would go finish. I was always physical. I I liked the physicality of the game. I love to play defense. So I just kind of looked at myself as kind of like a football player that played played basketball for a living. Bobby Minor: Yeah. Now I've always been a fan of yours except when you're playing the Mavericks. So other other than that, which a handful of times Matt Barnes: Ha ha ha. Bobby Minor: a year. So okay, you can provide I I think like, you know, like I ask a lot of former well, you ask a lot of former MLB guys, like what is the hardest thing to do in professional sports anywhere? And they're gonna say hit a baseball. In your opinion, what is the hardest thing to do at the professional level? Matt Barnes: Ooh, shill set wise the hardest. Don't I think the hardest thing is staying, to be honest. and basketball is a little different than baseball because we have to kind of learn all the different skill sets, and obviously, you get better at some than others. if I could say one theme because I know how important it is now, is just to become a a good shooter, like shooting is instrumental in the game now, as back in the day it it wasn't as much, but it's it's it's very important to be able to shoot. But I I would agree. I think the hardest thing to do in sports is hit is to hit a baseball. Bobby Minor: You ever get you ever get out there and get in the cages with your sons and take some cuts? Matt Barnes: yeah yeah, yeah. I so f oddly enough, and and some people are gonna probably see this and laugh and be like, No, I played against them. Every single summer I was in the NBA, I was playing travel softball with with with my high school friends. All my high school friends played baseball and some, you know, went on and played in college. And so when I came home in the summer times early in my career, and then when I played for the Kings, probably probably say I probably started playing Softball around 2004 or five, and then got our team got really good. We are C level. We traveled around the country, played in big tournaments. And I would always go to those tournaments because you got to think I'm in season right now. So social media wasn't as big as it got, but I'm six Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: eight, tattoos everywhere, you know, face-neck test. So I'm in there, hundred-degree weather with my hat pulled all the way down, long sleeve shirt so people don't recognize me and Eventually everyone started recognizing me and it was just a thing where they they would see me at all the big tournaments. So I absolutely just love obviously baseball, but softball is kind of what I did what what once baseball was done. But my kids, my younger kids played bait the twins played baseball when they were younger and and stopped it. But my I have a seven-year-old right now who's a tanker truck and he he likes baseball and we have him in l i in little league. Bobby Minor: All right, that's awesome. There there's some good lit leagues out in SoCal too for sure. I wanna go back just briefly to playing multiple sports, especially growing up. What would what would you tell a baseball dad whose whose son's coach is telling him that he needs to quit everything else just to keep up so he doesn't fall behind? Matt Barnes: What age is it? First that would be my first question. How old is the kid? Bobby Minor: so let's just say he's a ten year old. Matt Barnes: Ten year old. Okay. I think 10 is too soon to quit everything and and and and focus on one. obviously I think today is way different than it was when you and I were growing up. I was born in 1980. I'm 46. So, but when we came up, it was we played everything. We played outside first and foremost, but we played absolutely every sport. And and I think like I told you before, a little piece of every sport I was able to use in the NBA for 14 years. So I think at some point now because sports is so specialized, which I don't like, and it's year-round, and I feel like kids are beating the same muscle up the entire year. And I think it's we'll see what the studies end up coming, you know, coming to be in the next 20 years. But I don't agree with just one sport year round. But I think if you were gonna choose, I think probably come high school is when you have to decide, okay, I can't do all three. I'd be okay as a dad with my son playing a football and basketball or a football and baseball. and then just seeing over the next four years what what sport jumps ahead and then maybe just singularly focus on that or just play both all the way through high school. But I think ten years old is too young, but at the same time, there are kids that have been specializing in all these sports since three or four, which is unbelievable. Bobby Minor: Hey, so have you seen the video of the the three year old kid in Florida, the soccer player? Dude, w the whole thing is crazy. Matt Barnes: Unbelievable. Crazy. Sad. Bobby Minor: That's crazy in itself, but I but just the kids moves. Like he would Matt Barnes: His skill set. it unbelievable. Bobby Minor: school me. He would school me if we're you know Matt Barnes: I have a two-year-old right here that's playing right now. I couldn't imagine him a year from now doing what that little kid was doing. I was, I was very impressed. And Bobby Minor: Yeah. Yeah. Matt Barnes: I wish he could have just stayed there. Obviously, we don't have to get into everything that happened, but at three years Bobby Minor: Yeah. Yeah. Matt Barnes: old to have that kind of, I mean, it it's you know what the the internet has done is obviously it's it's connected the world and you just kind of see what it's like to be a pro and what you like and and and people are motivated to go get that. You know what I mean? And obviously, unfortunately, the likeliness of becoming a pro, you probably have a better chance of being struck by lightning. At the same time, I mean the the the the the the risk could be obviously worth the reward if they're able to make it. So everyone Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: wants to be a part of of some sort of profession and and and I understand. Bobby Minor: Yeah. No, I I appreciate that perspective and aside from just the sheer just in insanity of what happened, I'm watching him it made me think of like a young Tiger Woods. You know, if you saw Tiger Woods when he's on the Bob Hope show, you know, like just that kind of you know it's just like a an incredible an incredible talent. So your two year Matt Barnes: Yeah. Bobby Minor: old, what's what what what do you think he's gonna what sport do you think he's gonna end up playing? Matt Barnes: well, so I have 17-year-old identical twins who are seniors right now, and we're actually Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: each weekend taking trips to colleges to see where they want to play college basketball at. And then I have a seven-year-old who went viral the other day when Kevin Garnett and I were talking about just so I have a seven-year-old, and all the parents listen to these dimensions, I'm telling you. He's about five foot two and a half now, 125 pounds. He's seven, he's in second grade. He wears a size 10 Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: in men's, size 10 in men's. So he's huge and He he's the one that still plays football, baseball, and basketball, but his older brothers, my my his stepbrothers play football, but my twins play basketball. So he wants to play, he's locked in already. And I think I may because I I didn't start training the twins until like they showed me they really wanted it. And I didn't feel Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: like that was maybe until maybe 13 or 14. And they're 17 now, and I've Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: seen the progression each year. But I think my seven-year-old having the opportunity to be there and see the twins and be on the court, he's ready to go at seven now. So I'm gonna actually start training him. And then I'm sure my two-year-old seeing my seven-year-old and having his big, big brothers, he's gonna wanna jump into it too. But I think the main thing as you know, ask a parent's perspective, especially as a professional athlete, I see too many parents vicariously living through their children and and pushing them Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: and doing too much. I think maybe. mid later teenage years or or or early teenage years, if you really want to push them and make explain to them, hey, what's at, you know, what's at stake if we really put the work in. But I think too young, you make it a job almost. You make it, you take the fun out of it for kids. And I think if you think about it, we all started playing sports to have fun. And I think now just the way people try to monetize children's sports as a whole is nasty work. It's all about the money. It's not about development anymore. And that's why you see Other parts of the world starting to really put their footprint in professional sports because they're actually developing and doing it the right way. And I feel like in the States, it's parents are probably the worst part about of kids' sports. And then the next worst part is just the way they try to capitalize financially off a ton of tournaments and charging X amount of dollars to play on on this travel baseball team. And it's again, it's less about development and more about. social media and kinda just really making money off these kids. Bobby Minor: It yeah, I I really appreciate you saying that, and that's w one of the biggest reasons why I do what I do. My wife had been telling me for almost five years that I needed to do this. Last November, it hadn't been a year for me yet. I posted my first video, and my my whole motivation is to help parents understand what matters and what doesn't matter. I want them to know what questions to ask so they can make the best the make the best decisions for their son from an informed position because you know this whole machine, I just call it the machine. The machine is designed to live literally chew them up and spit them out and make as much money as they c as it can along the way. And you have so many people out there. There are there are a lot of great people out there in baseball, but a lot of people unfortunately that, it's it's all about the money. And they don't care. They don't care. They don't, Matt Barnes: Deba. Bobby Minor: And so I appreciate you sharing that. So you mentioned your twins and they didn't start training until they were about thirteen or fourteen. how did you how did you have the patience to let that happen when when you n when you know what it takes to become a professional athlete? Matt Barnes: because again, it it it wasn't my journey. You know what I mean? It was their journey, and I wanted to make sure they loved it enough to understand the sacrifice and discipline that they now know that it's gonna take to even have a chance. You know, there's no guarantee just because I've because I played in the league that my sons or any of my sons are gonna make the league, but I can definitely give them the blueprint on the type of work, the consistency, the dedication, and effort you need to give yourself a chance. but again, they came in, it was funny. I took them for their 10th birthday, I think, 10th or 11th birthday, I took them to Orange County and Kobe surprised them and trained and trained them. This is my two-year-old right here. You say hi. and Kobe trained them for their birthday. And it was funny because Kobe and I talked the night before. He's like, Hey, what you what do the boys want to go to school? Woo-woop, that-you I was like, they tell they want to go to UCLA. And Cob's All right, and we talked a little more. So when we get in there, it's funny. As soon as we get in there, hey boys, how's everything? He hugs them. So, where you guys want to go to college? And simultaneously, Twin's like, UCLA. And Cob's like, shh, not if you don't stop playing all the video games your dad says you're playing. All you do is like to be on your iPads. Maybe you can become smart and go to school with UCLA for academics, but you're not going to play basketball. And they looked at themselves like, shit. You know what I mean? So it was a funny situation. But I I say that to say it's just like they were caught up in video games and iPads until they were literally 13, 14, 13. Because they were always they always had a high IQ. they were always around the game and they can always shoot. So it always at at seven, eight, nine, they were fine. When kids started kind of taking things more seriously in training, they went from like the top kids to the middle kids and then almost to like the lower part of the kids. And I think that's when they kind of woke up like, okay, like we gotta get to work. And I would say consistent work started at 14. They're now seventeen. That they've made huge, huge, huge strides. So again. They had to do that. They had to show me they wanted to do that before I was really gonna start pushing them the way I know I needed to push them. No, I didn't. I just knew like when when it was time to put the put put the work in. you have to have your blinders on because obviously by the time they started the work, kids were before them were already doing the work. But I had no doubt again, if we put the work in, we would get to where we need to be. It was funny too, because one of my sons has a knee injury right now and he it's his senior year and he's eager to get back. Bobby Minor: So you start you launched your podcast in late twenty nineteen. What made you what made you decide to launch a podcast? Matt Barnes: I was doing ESPN and it was really cool while I was learning a lot, but obviously I felt like that was a really different Disney is kind of a different lane than I've ever marched in, you know what I mean? So I felt like a podcast could Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: be a little bit more of me, and kind of just my real raw, un uncut look at things. So I pitched the idea. Jack who was my partner about doing it he said he was doing it yes baby little game little game I pissed him the idea he said let's do it and we made it happen Bobby Minor: Did you if you if so going back if you go back to twenty nineteen, would you have had any idea how big it would be today? I mean Matt Barnes: no, no. We didn't really know what it was to be honest with you. You know what I mean? Like we didn't know what we had. had no idea what we had, what what it would do, how it would motivate people. you know, we jumped in the space and we were lucky enough to win sports part of the year our first year. You know, we beat all the, you know, the kind of the pillars in the space at the time and was the first of our kind. And, if you look at us, you know, seven years later, we're a complete company. We have about 12 shows. We we we we produce about 12 different shows and all major sports categories and and and launching a golf a golf vertical, political vertical and a music vertical. So I Bobby Minor: Wow. Matt Barnes: wouldn't had no idea, no clue that it would lead to like like really my real second career. So Bobby Minor: That's that's amazing. so all right, Matt, so you've coached your own boys. When one of your sons isn't playing well, like how do you decide whether he needs coaching from you or he just needs dad? Matt Barnes: that's a really thin line that I had to learn kind of on on trial and error because I have twins that are emotionally a lot different. One son can be going through anything and you can't tell, and then one son wears his emotions and hardships on his sleeve. So but I'm a realist with the kids and in in kind of obviously a a a loving way, but I was never someone who played daddy ball. I I my ex-wife is the one who I have the twins with, and she would get mad at me sometimes for not starting one or not playing both of them the whole time. And I'm just like, I feel like I would be doing them a disservice when they earn that, they'll get it. And but before that, I feel like when I'm not coaching them, they're gonna expect that this is how it's gonna be. I think we're setting them up for failure mentally. If every play is ran from and they play the whole game and they this and that. Like I said, when they first got in, I started coaching them in 17 after I won the championship. I retired. I still literally started coaching them that summer. And they were good. They can shoot the ball. Everyone, this is before like anyone really started working out. And then so they went from the kind of the best to kind of 10, 11, kind of seeping down to the middle. And then, you know, 11, 12, 13, they kind of were middle of the pack players, you know. And I'm I'm telling you, as a dad who loved them to death. And I think that's when they started realizing like, hey, we gotta start putting the work in and they worked their way back up. So my sons have been the stars, they've been role players, they've been spot up guys, and now they're back to full-fledged games where like we run plays for them. And one of my sons was the leading scorer in on our Nike team this summer, which is you know all the best in the country. Bobby Minor: wow. Matt Barnes: So it's just it's you know, but to me as a father who played it, they had to earn All that. And again, I've seen daddy ball on on on all levels. And I feel like if it's not done the right way, you can really backfire in your child. So I stuck to a plan with them and it it so far it's worked. Bobby Minor: All right. I just I just had an idea, man. Now this will be a couple of years away, so as long as you're staying in good shape, this let's fast forward a few years, you can come out of retirement, they can both Matt Barnes: heck no. Bobby Minor: get drafted, y'all can play together and you can one up LeBron and Bronny, 'cause it'll be you and twins. Yeah. Matt Barnes: With two, it's funny. I wish I wish that was actually a possibility. because I still play in the summertime with them. I bring them to like I started doing it when maybe they were fifteen. I started bringing them to real grown men pickup games in the summertime so they'd get beat up. And there was a few times where it was me, them, and then, two other guys, and it was beautiful. They were playing their game and super confidence, and I was out there setting them up and doing all kinds of things, and I thought to myself, like, man, I couldn't imagine what it would be like. And this was right when Braun was playing with Bronny at the very Bobby Minor: Yeah. Yeah. Matt Barnes: beginning. And I was just like, man, this would be absolutely amazing. So I mean, that's one of the coolest things ever. Obviously, you see, you know, the Griffeys were able to do that, the Bonzes were be able to but to be able to play professionally with your kid has got to be the ultimate, the ultimate feeling. Bobby Minor: Yeah, no doubt. now did you ever have you ever caught yourself saying something as a coach that you wished you'd handled differently as a dad? Matt Barnes: No, and and that's not to say that I have I've always said the right thing, but I've I've always said it with love. You know what I mean? I'm not one of those people that try to tear you down, and because I know how that feels, you know, as a as as a kid and as an adult. So mine's, you know, mine's tough love. I'm gonna tell you real. I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear, I'm gonna tell you what you need to hear. The parents knew that and and respected that, and that's kind of how I went about my business, you know what I mean? If If people wanted me a as a coach, I looked at all those kids as my sons and always had them around spending the night and stuff. And for the parents who really wanted me to really lock in and get on their kids, I would do it. And parents that just wanted me to coach and and coach at the games and practice, I would leave it at that. So I I felt like I have a lot of obviously life experience and then just, you know, understanding an IQ of the game to give the kids and and i if they're open to to to hearing it, I I I love being able to teach them. Bobby Minor: That's good stuff. Good stuff. And I think parents I get a lot of comments from parents from from with kids from other sports anyway, but I think it like just a lot of what you talk about too is like i you know it's not basketball specific or baseball specific. They're like just principles that are transferable. So I think this is I mean this is wisdom for everybody out there. Okay, I ask, you know, I have a lot of former MLB players on my podcast and I'll ask the pitchers who's the toughest hitter you ever faced. I'll ask the hitters who's the toughest pitcher you ever faced. So I'm gonna ask you from a basketball perspective, who is there any Is there anybody out there that you just hated lining up lining up opposite him in a game mate? Like I just hate I hate having to cover this dude. Matt Barnes: I didn't hate it. I loved it, but it was tough. the to me, the number one guy was Kobe. I missed MJ by a year. I feel like Kobe, and I say this respectfully as possible because I still have kind of MJ ahead, but not too far. Kobe was the most skilled player I think the NBA has ever seen. Obviously, you could put Kyrie Irving in that category, but as far as footwork, skill, the ability to shoot with both hands and just ultimate like master. That part of the game. I think he he took what Jordan did and took it to another level as far as the skill set went. So to me, he was probably the toughest, but probably my top five toughest guys to carry. And you got to think like my run through the NBA was the heyday of the twos and threes. Like the the the the they were the main scores because it kind of had just shifted from the bigs. It shifted from the centers kind of dominating to the wings dominating. So I guarded, you know. Kobe, LeBron, KD, Carmelo Anthony, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, Dwayne Wade, Manu Ginobli, Michael Red. I know I'm Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: forgetting people. but I guarded literally the best of the best because that was that time. So I'd probably Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: say my tough top five toughest guards, I would put Kobe at one. and then I'll just give you four other ones. I think Carmelo Anthony is in there. Paul Pierce is in there. Loss was tough. Kevin Durant is in there. That's gonna leave a lot of good people out. And I'd probably say LeBron. LeBron's, obviously physique and speed and skill set Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: are incredible. But I mean that leaves guys like Tracy McGrady off the list and and Manu Ginobli off the list. Those guys were monsters. But you know, I was again, I had a football player mentality. I love the defensive side of the ball on on on basketball and really just locked into my role and I think that's why I was able to play as long as I I played. So, obviously I would've liked to have more twenty or thirty point games and I, I had my fair share of those, but my whole thing was every single night, my job is to guard the best players in the world. And I felt, beyond lucky to be able to do that for a career. Bobby Minor: That's awesome. So you you mentioned McGrady. You know, he had he had his little venture with baseball, playing for the Sugarlock Skeeters down here in Texas. But I was at a Mavs Matt Barnes: Mm-hmm. Bobby Minor: and Rockets game several, you know, several years ago where Dirk and Tr and McGrady both scored over fifty. It was it was a pretty a pretty wild game. So okay, I want to ask I do want to ask you, I want to ask Matt Barnes: yeah. Thank you. Bobby Minor: you a Kobe question because like my son, my son had a hitting instructor, Mike Brumley, great guy, was working with guys like Austin Riley, Dansby Swanson, and and my son. Son It went into hit with him and a week later they were him and his son had driven to Baltimore to work with Austin Riley. They're driving back down Interstate 20 and a drunk driver on the wrong side of the freeway, they a head-on collision and and Brumley Matt Barnes: Tchau. Bobby Minor: tragically passed. And I know how hard that hit us because he was a just really really loved my son and we were literally just there with him like a Matt Barnes: Didn't we work with? Bobby Minor: week before. And I know obviously like when Kobe passed, I still remember where we were and my wife literally like like like burst into tears. just something that caught everybody off guard and you knew him. But you also had him on your podcast just a few weeks, you know, before his tragic passing. So did that did that take it to an like another Matt Barnes: Well, Bobby Minor: level and just how hard it hit you that literally, you know, you're driving to go interview, you Matt Barnes: What's Bobby Minor: know, interview him for your podcast and then now all of a sudden, you know, this happens. Matt Barnes: Yeah. No, it was obviously really tough. you know, we have an interesting journey it in it and it started in, you know, when I when I got to college at UCLA in ninety-eight, he got to Lakers in ninety-six and he was just always on the UCLA campus. So I would see him kind of, that's that's Kobe, that's so and so. And I never really befriended him at the time, but we got a chance to play against him. I'd watch him train. I just thought, like, man, if this guy is the bar, I'm in trouble. You know what I mean? Because he was just so and he's only about two years older than me. I was like, this guy is just so far advanced. So kind of see how like the grind at the beginning of his professional career to where he be got and then where he became, it was just such a cool thing. And then obviously, you know, we almost fought in Orlando with the ball fake thing. And then literally Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: right after that after that incident, you know, he kinda blind called me and we talked and and, you know, wanted me to come join him and four days later I was on the team. So we went from, had a lot of respect for each other because we knew each other, competitors to teammates. And then as soon as I got there, it just opened up with open arms and op you know accepted the twins. Like the twins got it so I think four years old when I started with the Lakers from four years old to this day, they get every single Kobe. you know, Vanessa's not now Vanessa makes sure the twins get the Kobe's. But you know, his loss as a whole It was tough because I got a chance to see the other side. Obviously I got a chance to compete against, one of the greatest players of all time. But I got to actually know Kobe as as as a brother, as a husband, as a dad, as a businessman. you know, he lived out in Orange County. Okay. And that's where most of the bigger tournaments are. So, you know, every weekend we would connect and, you know, hey, what time does Gigi play? What time do the twins play? And I remember one time in particular, like the twins were only eight or nine years old. And that means we normally have earlier games. So we had maybe an 8 a.m. game this day. And Kobe came to an 8 a.m. game to watch, seven and eight-year-olds play. And anyone who watches, you know, it's a shit show. A seven, eight-year-old game is Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: a shit show. But the fact that he took time to come watch the twins Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: at eight a.m. and then obviously we went and watched him and Gigi later. so I I really cherish that fact that I got a chance to know the person, not just the player. So, you know, when he passed, we were at my house in the Bay at the time and and we had an AU tournament. So the whole team was over there and one of the dads told me and I didn't believe it. Then I saw it on the news and I went up to the game room and told the twins and their teammates and they kind of started crying. And it was just like one of those things where obviously like you said, everyone knows where they're at and and what you did and how you reacted when it happened. And it it was just a sad thing. I feel like, you know, he was so much more obviously he was a superstar player and and LA loved him. But I kind of felt like in LA He was a superhero and you feel like, nah, superheroes don't die. what are we talking about? So, unfortunately, the loss of him has I I think hit hit the world. And and it it is still, still tough for me to this day. Bobby Minor: Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that, man. so obviously you played fourteen years in the NBA and you know, you weren't I would say you some in some teams, some seasons you had more of a role that you were playing, like you weren't always the guy or anything. So so what do you tell a young athlete who's good enough to make a great team, but Matt Barnes: But more. Bobby Minor: maybe he's not getting the playing time that he wants where he's at? Matt Barnes: I I would tell them to stick with it first and foremost. I feel like this generation runs too much. And any sign of adversity they want to transfer, switch teams, start their own team. I would say ca because I feel like you learn so much when you don't like obviously you need to play to get better, but I feel like you learn how to go through a little bit of adversity at a younger age, understand like, dang, I I'm better, you know, I'm good enough to play. I'm not playing. Let me work harder and and and work my way into playing. So I tell all kids is, you can find find your role. I think obviously you can tell, I think by the age of, 16, 17, 18, what kind of score someone's gonna be. Some guys just have it. some guys are gonna be knocked down shooters, you can tell. Some guys are gonna have the ball in their hands at the college level and a smaller level have their ball the ball in the hands at the pros. But there's still ways to be Execute and master your role. Find out what that is. Obviously, always continue to develop your skill set. And that's that's in any sport. Continue to develop your skill set, but hone in on like be a pro in your role, you know, be be be an all-star in your role. And I think that's what allowed me to last so long. You I was a three and D physical defender, rebounder, hustle guy, dive on the floor for loose balls, and you know, that got me a a 14-year career in a championship, and and you know, I made good money. While I was doing it and I but I just think in in on the basketball side, people you you see a lot of guys that are talented that make the mistake of thinking they have the the scoring ability of a Kevin Durant or a Steph Curry or or Kobe Bryant and kind of miss that hey, I he you can't score like that, you know, but you can be a hell of a player if you played your role. So that would be one thing that I've always preached to not only my kids, but the kids that I coach is kind of all right. always continue to develop your skill set. And we're gonna see each year, each level, you're gonna get better at everything. But I think you can kind of tell what you're gonna be really good at. Master that and you have a chance to go pro. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's really good, man. So all right, so obviously your sons carry the barns name. So how do you keep other people's expectations of them from becoming your expectations for them? Matt Barnes: I've been I I think to be honest with you, it's it's been easier because it's two. So I've always had to kind of explain like you gotta run your race. Don't worry about your brother's doing. Don't worry about what your brother's doing. Like you gotta run your race. So I I've been able to apply that to like don't feel no pressure with the last name. Like I I was a role player. You know, I was I'm not like I'm I couldn't have imagined what Brawny would feel like or some of these superstar kids, your dad did his thing. I was well respected out there. I went in there and and and made a name for myself and was able to, parlay that into a a a another gig after sports. But our whole thing was, you know, chop wood, carry water. Let's continue just to get better each year, get better each year, get better each year till it gets to a point where okay, like, hey, you know, look at this body of work I've I I've built up. And like I feel my kids are I've coached some kids and seen kids at peak at an early age, especially with, it sports being so specific now to that sport. And that was never something I wanted my kids to do. It was a slow burn, like a candle, you know, and it's it was a marathon, it wasn't a sprint. So my boys have continued to get better each year and and you can see the improvement. And the more work they they put in, they're gonna continue to get better. And, you know, that was kind of the plan with them. was just to kind hey, this is, we w if we plan to make this career, we have an and there's again, I'm not saying my boys are going pro, but you know, we kind of put a long-term plan together on how to get better and take care of your body and take care of the mental state and understand how crazy like you and I are kind of we didn't have to deal with social media. Like I caught the end Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: of kind of the social media boom. Before we just had to if you were a pro, you would they would trash you on the news or trash you in the papers. But these kids today look at their phone and it's it's so much negative and negative energy out there and jealousy and and racism and hate that it's just like you really have to prepare your kids not only in sports but just in life to be mentally strong to kind of survive and not fall down these pitfalls and understand that the internet's real but it's really not real. Like we want to be happy Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: in real life. We want to be good in real life. So we got to go out there and if you want to do that you got to work on yourself and and work on your game. And you know that's what I've preached to my kids and I'm gonna preach to all my kids. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's really good stuff. so Matt, so like you've always been known as like a tough physical c physical competitor, no doubt. So where's the line between teaching a kid to be tough and putting so much pressure on him that he just stops enjoying the game? Matt Barnes: well, I I I think sometimes people get the the the word tough misconstrued because tough to me isn't going out there and fighting or isn't going out there and playing dirty, although I've done a little bit of both. Tough is is is mental. Tough is a mentality. And I'm lucky that, you know, I got my mentality from the way I grew up. You know what I mean? Playing outside, fighting. my childhood with my parents being functional users and seeing violence and and and drugs and abuse and that gave me my chip. But you know, I worked my butt off so that didn't have to be my kids' motivation. So, you know, instilling toughness in them and and humbleness in them and kind of giving them an understanding of like, hey, I came from you know, I was on food stamps and family living together and all this kind of stuff, and now you guys live behind gates and go to private schools, you know. So I had to teach them that balance in life, but the tough side I was always thinking, when they were like, damn, how am I gonna make them tough? kids don't really play outside anymore. So it needs to drive my ex-wife crazy. I would let Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: them box box each other and fight each other. So that's kind of how I got their like their physical toughness going. Because again, those are all lessons I got growing up playing Bobby Minor: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Barnes: outside. And this generation of kids didn't just play outside. So I have to say my kids are really mentally tough because I'm always talking and teaching the mental side, but also physically, like my I've I've I've raised two dogs. they may be polite dogs, a little different than than than the big dog, but you know, they're well-mannered, respectable. but they're dogs out there on the court. And I love that because I feel like that's easier to reel in. Than have to teach someone at a later age. I to I feel like you have to start instilling that toughness at a really young age, the mental and the physical side. I feel like if you don't have it by 14, 15, 16, that's just not gonna be your thing. And that's okay. There's plenty of guys who aren't tough that are very skilled and talented and and make it. but I knew early on that I had to instill that in them and I and I made sure I did. Bobby Minor: Yeah. That's that's so powerful. And it to me it's almost the opposite these days. Like parents, man, especially parents that didn't play any sports or didn't play, you know, didn't didn't play sports at a high level, they have these kids that are skilled in a sport and it's like, man, like they baby them. They're almost afraid, you know, I don't w I don't want to upset little Skyler because if he gets pissed off, he's not gonna play. I I had somebody Matt Barnes: yeah. Right. Right. yeah. Yeah. Bobby Minor: DM me on Instagram yesterday telling me about this eleven year old kid who plays for a very well known travel organization and he's been highly highly recognized. By perfect game. I was gonna say that. But he was telling me about how this kid was like like man, like, you know, hurling racial slurs at the other team. He hit into a double play. He's like throwing his stuff down. He got b hit by a pitch and he's telling the pitcher to throw an F and strike. This is an eleven year old on the field. And like nobody did anything about it. They brought it up to the tournament directors and it's just like, man, like, I don't know, that's crazy, man. Like I tell people my Matt Barnes: We're doing a misservice. We're doing them a just because that attitude is not gonna work Bobby Minor: Matt. Yeah. Matt Barnes: anymore. There's too many other options. There's too many kids that are gonna be just as good as him that do stuff Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Matt Barnes: the right way. You know what I mean? But I think at the end of the day, it all starts at home. Like nobody is bigger than the program. We always have to be the parents, and no matter how good your child is, they're still a child. They still need to do chores, they still need to have a bedtime, there still need to be consequences to bad behavior. And that's something that I mean, obviously I came from an era where I got my butt whooped. So I don't have to necessarily Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: put my hands on my kids. I could just change my voice and they realize daddy's not playing. But there still has to be a a a respect of parent and kid. And and even I don't care how good your kid is, if you let them, you know, create bad bad habits, whether that's playing or just bad character flaws, you're again, you're doing them a disservice and and and and I said earlier, sometimes parents are the worst part about youth sports, but at the same time, I don't want to s make that sound as harsh as it may have come across. But to your point, a lot of these parents that haven't played don't know better. And they're trying to learn on the fly too. And I'm sure on your side, the baseball side, just like it is on the basketball side, you can't go to these tournaments and tell anybody that their kid's not going to D one college and they're not going to go pro. You know what I mean? So it's just like almost a false sense of confidence. And but sometimes you have to have that delusional confidence to make it. But Again, I'm about raising first and foremost good, solid young men. And then obviously my we're we're high on academics here, but then then comes good players. but I want them to be good people first. And and I've seen kids that are super talented, but quit, pout, cry. If it's not going their way, they they and I just think to myself, like, man, like I don't I'm I'm a coach or I'm an I'm another coach. I don't have time to pour into you, but I feel bad because your parents aren't pouring into you like they need to pour into you. They're letting your your your talent outweigh your character and you don't win in life with that way. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's that's so powerful. I wanna go back to Bronny, James, for just a minute, 'cause like you've defended Bronny when people were judging him like really early in his NBA career, and you talked about how like how we don't give young players enough time to develop. Why do you think we're so quick to decide like what a kid can or can't become? Matt Barnes: I think it's this hot take, being loud and wrong and no consequences happening, you know, r no repercussions for it. Bronny is in a tough situation. I mean, being LeBron James' son, that's in life that's gotta be tough. But then following in the basketball footsteps are unimaginable. You know, you look at other guys like MJ and his sons kind of found other businesses and and ways to do, you know, I commend, you know, Bronny and and and Bryce for making a run and trying to really make their own legacy. you know, obviously being in Braun Shadow is tough. And there was a R you know, did was it nepotism that Bronny got drafted by the Lakers? Did Bron have some whether he did or didn't, it's happened, but you know, it's that nepotism happens often in a lot of different spaces. And if anyone deserves to be able to have that happen to their child, why not LeBron? But I think Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: being able to, you know, we played against Bronny, you know, 'cause my kids were the same, the twins are in the same division as Sierra Ken, the same league. So I've seen his growth and and and how hard he works. And my take on it was I think after his freshman year, considering what happened, him going to the Lakers late in the second round probably had more to do with Braun. But I think regardless, if he would have went back to SC for another year and had a full season to play, he was gonna get drafted to the NBA at some point. And I just think there's un you know, unfair expectations. I mean, he's not LeBron. Bronny can be a very solid, as I spoke to earlier, role player who specialized in defense and and being able to get his teammates the ball and knock down shots, extremely athletic. So I'm always gonna root for a situation like that. one, because of LeBron's greatness, but two, kind of being able to see a little kid. I I've seen Bronny out here in LA for a long time. You know what I mean? So just to kind of see his journey, I think the hate is always the loudest and what gets recognized, but there's also a lot of love and support. from a lot of people out here and I'm just I'm I'm one of them. Bobby Minor: That's awesome. So what what should a parent be looking at when their twelve year old might not be developing as fast as one of his teammates? Matt Barnes: Don't worry about it. Run your race. Keep working. the work is undefeated. if you're not seeing the results you want, maybe it's tra different trainer doing different things. But I think we're always so worried about what the next person is doing or the next man is doing. You know, I I'm that's one thing is you know, I talk to my kids about having their blinders on and running your race. And if you put the work in when that you know, when it went when it comes a nut cutting time, whether it be game time or an opportunity to go to college, if you put the work in, you're gonna have the opportunity. but again, most of the time kids aren't putting in enough work or the right type of work. And then to your point what you just asked, they're always worried about the next kid. And, you know, if you're worried about what what it what what someone else is doing, how can you fully focus on what you need to do? Bobby Minor: That's you're spot on. And it's funny, like when people talk about their kid being behind, I'm I always ask like behind who? Behind what? Because when you th when you think Matt Barnes: Right. Right. Bobby Minor: it's behind, then you're to me, you're operating off of the mindset that everybody's journey is the same. You know, and it's like a straight line and like everybody's journey is so different. Like I I had Nick Torres on my podcast the other day, he was twenty twenty five Mexican league VP. And like his junior year of high school, he was a PO that didn't even hardly play. His senior year, he's conference. Player of the year, and then ends up going to Cal Poly, you know, before getting drafted in the fourth round by the Padres, and then you know, now he's a Mexican League MVP. So like everybody's journey is different. All right. I Matt Barnes: Yeah. Yeah. Bobby Minor: want to I want to I do want to I do want to talk a little baseball with you. And the thing that's so to me so amazing about just chatting with you today is again that we've talked a lot about basketball and your journey as a basketball player and your journey with your sons, but the principles still apply to you know, if you're a baseball parent watching this, you still there's so much there that you can learn. So, all Matt Barnes: Mm-hmm. Bobby Minor: right, so So Matt, you could have taken all the smoke in a hundred different directions. What made you want to build an entire brand around baseball and what do you think baseball's been missing when it comes to telling its players stories? Matt Barnes: so that's two parts. First, why baseball? I grew up playing baseball and I grew up playing every other sport. And to me, baseball was the coolest sport because it was the only league that would give you like your real like the real team stuff. You'd get a real Cardinals hat and a Cardinals jersey, and you couldn't tell me anything. When else I was able to put like a professional team on as a young kid. I feel like little league was so instrumental in my life. And again, I played all the way from probably five or six to sixteen. And then I, chose that, baseball wasn't my strongest sport and I was ready to. But as a child, you know, I grew up unfortunately in the steroid era and when I was in high school. And now to me, that was some of the best baseball I had ever seen. It was the only time I remember we got to hurry up and get home to watch, you know, but c you know, Mark is in St. Louis, so they're two hours ahead of us. We gotta get home at three o'clock to be able to watch the home run run race between him and Sammy. And, you know, Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: being growing up in Northern California, I was a huge A's fan, but also cheered for the Giants and and I was a Yankees fan and I just think growing up in the eighties and the nineties, we played so many different sports that I have a lot of love for different sports and a lot of knowledge in those sports because we didn't have the internet. We didn't get the chance. My dad was someone who told me I couldn't put the video game on his TV because it would mess up the color. So I'm always outside playing something. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't one of those that stay in the house. kids and and again I had so much fun playing baseball. All my high school my my close high school friends I still have to this day all played baseball. So I just knew that, you know, what I'd seen in the baseball space prior was nothing like what I was doing in the basketball space. And CC Sabatia grew up about an hour and a half from me in Vallejo. I was in Sacramento. So we'd always heard of each other. We finally met when we became pros and developed a cool friendship. And I remember I I sat down with him maybe that our second year in and he's like, yo, this shit is dope, man. You need it, we need we need this in baseball. He was still playing and I'm just like, man, whatever. I'm, whenever you're ready, I'm down. Fast forward maybe three years after that, he he hit me about it again. Like, man, I want to do something. I want to do something. So when he retired, he was working for MLB, you know, under the commissioner doing all kinds of stuff. And he's just like, listen, man, I know what I told you a while ago. I feel like we need your your spin and your flavor in baseball. What do you think? And I'm man, I love baseball. And I knew that the all the smoke brand are strong point in that. Although we we do interview some current players, it's more nostalgia. It's 80s, 90s, Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: early 2000s, kind of when I was coming up and first started being a pro. So that was kind of the same approach that we took to baseball. I'm like, who can I interview in this? I want to interview guys in this space that I grew up idolizing. You know, so I've got to interview Barry Bonds, Darryl Strawberry, Kevin Mitchell. Dave Stewart, you know, I I'm blanking right now, but just Ken Griffey Jr. Eric, I mean, it's it's it's Albert Bell. We just had Albert Bell, Derek Bobby Minor: Eric Davis, Eric Davis, Kenny Lofton. Matt Barnes: Lee, who's someone who was a few years older than me that went to our rival high school in Sacramento. I knew his dad was a Japan baseball legend. I grew up with his brother Brian, so I got to sit down with Derek for the first time and kind of chop it up. So I it's weird. I get chills just talking about it right now. Like I'm such a huge nostalgia baseball. And I'm gonna be honest with everybody. Like I kind of lost contact with baseball kind of when I got into the pros. you know, so the early two thousands and I would still kind of keep close eye, but it wasn't I was watching full baseball games when I was in high school and in college and stuff. So when I finally turned pro, I kind of stopped following it at like as hard as I did. so I'm starting to get back in the game. getting back into the game now that we're partnering with MLB and and and doing all kinds of cool stuff. So kind of just seeing the changes in the game from when I grew up loving it to what it is now and and kind of bridging that gap. But I feel like again, all the smoke dug out our strength, this kind of talking to those guys that didn't grow up in the social media era. Like these guys never, unless you heard them on an interview or in a newspaper, you didn't get to hear Eric Davis. You didn't get to hear Kevin Mitchell. You know, you didn't get to hear Barry Bonds that they weren't bashing them. You what I mean? So to be able to sit down and kind Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: of humanize our guests, what would we always been good at on the basketball side and just find out the other side. Like I'm such a huge fan of these people. So I'm just like, yo, this shit is super cool to me. I know fans have to love it too because I'm at the end of the day, I'm a fan just like everyone else, man. And and again, just to be able to talk to these guys, you know, we partner with Harold Reynolds. Now he's a part of all the smoke baseball Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: and kind of the face of what we're doing. And We got a bunch of cool projects we're gonna be doing with him. And I really just kinda wanna bring a different eyeball back to the game. We're gonna get into the Latin side of baseball as well. We're gonna start a Latin pod, hopefully next season if there's no lockout. but also, you know, obviously Bobby Minor: Yeah. Yeah. Matt Barnes: the the lack of the the the black superstar in baseball, you know, growing up, I mean, everyone I just named, most of them were, you know, all black, you know, heroes that I looked up to and Obviously, the percentage of black players in MLB is down. And we can have a whole separate podcast on why people feel it is that way, but it just is what it is. So, you know, introducing my football and basketball crowd to a baseball demographic and then find out how many people actually love baseball too. So I just think we we we found a really sweet spot in this space, and we're really excited to be welcomed and obviously have a chance to work with MLB and be respected because. I'm a basketball guy jumping into a baseball space. So people are like, Does he really? I remember I said the a couple interviews ago, I was talking to someone and I said the wrong baseball movie. And so many people in the comments, like, Well, you said this. I'm like, Well, goddamn, I'm sorry. I guess I don't know shit Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Matt Barnes: about baseball because I said the wrong baseball movie. So people are always kind of looking to like see if I really know what I'm Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: talking about. But I get a lot of love for like if I'm not a huge nerd, like there's one in my life, but I was a huge baseball fan, and I know like that era. Good. And I stick to what I know. And I'm a student when I don't know stuff. you know, I had such a great sit-down with Al Leiter and just hearing his stories and his journey and Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: all that kind of stuff. So I feel like, you know, I'm a fan, but also a student. And I feel like if I'm having fun knowing these guys better, that our fan base and our following will do the same thing. So we're super appreciative to be able to again be welcomed in this space and accepted. And we hope that you know people enjoy what we're doing in the baseball space. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, Al one of Al sons, Jack, pitches for the Rangers, so got to see see him pitch with his former college Matt Barnes: Yep. Mm-hmm. Bobby Minor: teammate, Kumar Rocker. So okay, so I mean you've interviewed and see to me like you're like you're speaking my language right now. Like I love all those players that you talked about. You know, I'm a little bit you know, it's a little bit older than you and it's I'm really thankful for L B the Show because you know, like we used to w like again, I used to watch full baseball games all the time and now kids these days don't, but because of L B the Show, my youngest son now who's about to be twenty two, but you know, when he was younger, like he knew, you know, Joe Morgan and his elbow flap and all of that just from playing MLB the show. So I'm thankful for that. So you Matt Barnes: Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Bobby Minor: you you've had, I mean, all of these incredible baseball guys on your podcast. What's something that you've heard from these guys that every parent of a young baseball player needs to hear? Matt Barnes: to be honest with you, I don't think it's anything new because to your point, very or like all these principles you need to be in sports and to be a good person have are are mute. Like there's no you you know, as far as character-wise or or work ethic, you need all the same views, discipline, responsibility, understanding that you know, if you're a kid in this crazy world, you can't do everything your friends do because you guys don't have the same goals, you know, that's I just think, the journey, the discipline, the hard work, the dedication, the, being able to how do you weather the storm? Because the the journey is going to be different. There's going to be a lot of downs and there's going to be some big ups. Like how do you stay consistent in your approach, your attitude, and your energy? So I don't think to to answer your question, I don't think there's any one thing that stood out because when I speak to these great baseball players, it's the same principles that everyone should be applying in other sports. But also life. Bobby Minor: That's good, that's good. So I okay, I want to go back to something that you just mentioned about the African Americans in baseball. Okay. The number like I it's funny like I actually played college baseball at an HBCU back in the eighties. I played a preview Matt Barnes: Really? Bobby Minor: A and Yeah, Coach Tank Coach Tank was my coach. yeah, people don't I Matt Barnes: That's dope. I love it. Bobby Minor: still have I still have my preview ID, man. I'll have to show it to you. But Matt Barnes: Were you were you in a f were were you in a f a fraternity? Bobby Minor: No, I never pledge. I never pledge. But Matt Barnes: Ha ha Bobby Minor: a couple of my couple of my really good friends were kappas and Matt Barnes: Okay. Bobby Minor: you know, yeah, I mean they they let me now behind closed doors I you know, I would sit there and twirl their cane and everything. I was practicing one day, but Matt Barnes: They let they they let you come to the barbecues though, it sounds like, which I love. Bobby Minor: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And and I got hurt I got hurt so early, so my college career was cut really short. But and then my youngest son, you know, my wife is an Afro Latina, she's half half Dominican, half Puerto Rican. So my youngest son in twenty twenty did the MLB Dream Series. And you know, there's eighty of the best high school athletes there, and they're almost all either African American or or his I mean, you know, predominantly African like Zion Rose was there, Cam Collier, some of these great, great baseball players. And I I asked the question. question to somebody when I was there, because you look at it, they were all com they were all committed to, P4s for for the most part, and you know, Louisville, Vandy, and all these schools. And I asked somebody the question, I said, what if instead of half these players instead of committing to, you know, Georgia and Vanderbilt and all these schools, if they committed to Grambling and Southern and like how would that how would that rock the college baseball world? And so my first part of the question is I would love to hear your thoughts on that. And then my second part of it is kind of my theory. Like you mentioned, like you're forty six, you grew up as a baseball fan. And to me, I'm besides the fact that it like it baseball's become a country club sport for sure. You know, it's just it's just so expensive. But also I feel like a part of it is like like We grew up in an era where my grandmother loved baseball, my dad loved baseball, so I love baseball. And you're missing that now because you know like Matt Barnes: Yeah. Bobby Minor: the generation before us, they're not necessarily baseball fans. And so now that part's missing. And I I I mean what are your thoughts on I know there's a lot there, but what are your thoughts on both of the things that I said? Matt Barnes: think it would be great, but at the same time, obviously these unfortunately these HBCUs aren't ready for that caliber. And I say this respectfully as possible because I'm not trying to disrespect, but when you're going to these power four, power fives for the big three of sports, these are like professional organizations. they lack no amenities by any means and are always adding new stuff. HBCU stuff is always looking for funding and sports is not at the top of when money comes in, the top the top of the pecking order is not going to be going to sports. So as much as I would love to say we should flood the HBCUs with all this young black and brown talent or and even white talent, you know, such as yourself, unfortunately, they're not prepared for the higher level. And again, I say disrespectfully because I know some people are going to be offended, Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: but it's just the truth. Like, you know, if look at, you know, a Kentucky it's gonna have much mu much better facilities than a Grambling or or or a Jackson State. So unfortunately Bobby Minor: Yeah. Matt Barnes: I just don't think and and I hope at some point it it becomes a thing where they're well def you know well funded and they have and they can match amenities because I think then it would really be a level playing field as long as they had some NIL money with the donors that you would be able to start getting these kids to go to these HBCUs and completely change the outlook. You know, there's no there's no No telling what would happen if you see these HBCUs starting to compete in the NCAA football playoffs and in in in in the World Series and baseball and and and being able to, you know, compete against the Dukes and Carolinas and basketball. Like it'd be like, holy smokes, it would be I think it would be amazing. But unfortunately, I don't feel like, you know, the funding is there to kind of be able to, you know, give the athlete the the the surrounding things he needs to make that next jump. and then the second part was cost. Bobby Minor: Just why no, well, aside from cost, why do you what's your what what's your what are your thoughts on why there we don't see as many, you know, young African Americans playing baseball? Matt Barnes: Well, I think cost. I think cost cost is a big it's it's very expensive to play. in in and on the flip side in in basketball, if you're good starting as early as 11 or 12, everything's paid for. You get shoes, you get travel. You know, if you're good enough, they travel your parents. Like there's a different kind of financial responsibility when it comes to being good at baseball at a certain age and being good at basketball. and then also kids. I think it needs more energy around the game. You know, like you said, it's a country club game. You know what I mean? So how do we make it cool? Because again, there's not a ton of although there's a ton of Latin stars in there, you don't see a ton of black stars in there. And, you know, you you gotta see it to believe it. So how do we how are we able to do that? And you know, since I've been talking about this, I've been hearing, like you just said, there's a lot of up and comings that are African Americans. making their ways through the lower levels and and excuse me through the college ranks and and the farm systems of the pros. So, you know, hopefully one day we'll be able to get that number up a little bit and kids will be able to see that baseball is an option. But I think probably the biggest thing is probably the financial commitment. I think that not only stops blacks, but I think it stops a lot of people because I mean we're living in a tough time right now. Not only black people are struggling, everyone is struggling, you know. So I think the financial ask on these travel baseball teams is is a lot on families and you know the the the they're siding with you know a sport that it can either be free or just not as expensive. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that that's really, really good. So all right, man, I'm gonna I'm we're gonna wrap up. I have one last question and then we'll we'll land the plane. So obviously you made it to the NBA, had a had an incredible career, you won a championship, and now you're watching you know, watching your own sons, your twins, chase their dreams. What's something that you understand about being a sports dad today that you couldn't have understand you couldn't have understood when you were playing? Matt Barnes: just the journey. I think the patience, the love, how to be able to relate to the kids on their journey. You know what I mean? It's just it they came up completely different than us. You know, we used to get cussed and yelled at and screamed at, and that was a part of the game. Now it's not. You know what I mean? So I learned very early on how to be able to talk to these kids. when I was first, I'm six, eight, so when I'm first getting out and coaching the twins and they're, seven, eight, nine, I'm getting out on one knee and and talking to them and and and not talking down to them. So I just think how to deal with this next generation because their their journey in sport is completely different than what my generation's journey in sport is or was. Bobby Minor: So this will be the last question. So what do what do you hop what do you hope your sons remember most about how you've handled their sports journeys? Matt Barnes: that I was present and that I loved them. Whether they make it or not, that's up to them and God and and just know that daddy loved them and daddy poured into them and they had a good childhood and I'm gonna cheer no matter what what thing they go pro in, whether it's sports or or or the workforce or just pro in life, I'm I'm gonna be a supportive dad. So I just think hope that that's what, you know, dad did everything he could, you know, because my oldest kids come from a broken home. I I haven't been with their mom since they were five and they're seventeen now. So just know that dad I was always there. I was always present. I retired from the NBA two years before my last deal was up just to be more a more present father. So just know that daddy is always there. He he loved them and he poured everything he had into them and to make them good people, not just good athletes. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's so good, man. So for the for the three people out there that aren't following you on Instagram right now, like where where can people where can people find you and follow you? both both you both Matt Barnes and all the smoke. Sorry, go ahead. Matt Barnes: my individual IG. My original IG is Matt underscore Barnes. Is it underscore Barnes 22 at Instagram? And then all the smoke is is the main mothership, but at s dot baseball is where you can find the base, follow the baseball side. again, huge baseball fan. It Thank you for talking to me today. I know that, baseball is your background and I just think it's a dope community that I loved as child and and and I'm so fortunate to be able to hop back in in my forties and learn more and and and and and share all these cool interviews. Bobby Minor: Matt, I really appreciate you, man. Matt Barnes: No doubt. Have a good one.