Latest / UK Column Radio / Charles Malet | A Thousand Words (Part 1 of 3)

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Charles Malet | A Thousand Words (Part 1 of 3) · UK Column Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the face of it, railing against the system of control,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: but at the same time wanting to be told what
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: to do. This is a huge danger and people are
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: very susceptible to it, which is absolutely which is horrific.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: But but put like that makes sense. Yeah, there's a
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a logic there. So people who do
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: live a life where love and honesty and care and
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: strength and all these things are nurtured, that also gets
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: perpetuated the idea that to hold a position can be
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: considered dangerous. I mean that is, it is absolutely psychological torture.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Charles I Drink, Welcome to the what's become known as
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: the dentist chair. Well, primarily because of Mike. I think,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: really I think he was seeing in that light more
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: than more than Brian.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I think that's casting some aspersions on dentists.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: But yes, now I feel you.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I feel you're a slightly slightly different Kettler fish. I
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: think you good, slightly more relaxed in the in this situation,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I think possibly maniac talking about that.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Will that will emerge if it's the case, I guess,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: but now let's hope not. And it's great. But I
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: think I think the way that this has been set
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: up means that people will have a good idea of
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: what you're doing because I've got a good view of
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: what you're Yeah, because he came to the when I
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: did a little drawing workshop, you came, you have a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: But I was going to say, you have a slight interest,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: But it feels to me that you have an interest
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: in pretty much anything. That's where That's where I've always
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: felt the joy is to be taken from life is
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: in finding out what you can about absolutely everything, because
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: until you do, you can't possibly know whether or not
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: you're going to enjoy it, or be interested in it,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: or understand the pleasure. And I think I also think
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: if if other people do do stuff that you haven't
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: really any experience of, there's got to be the first
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: question is, well, why would they do that? They're unlikely
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: to do it if it makes them miserable. And I
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: think you know something that let's say train spotting. What
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: a great example to describe somebody as a train spot
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: there a connotation is I think completely yeah, exactly, completely
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: unfair connotations. And this might be a stretch, but the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: age of steam I totally can see that I don't
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: think I don't think modern trains are much to look at,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: but the esthetic quality of a steam engine that's apart
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: from something else, stood the test of time and been
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: going for one hundred plus years. I mean that that
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: is absolutely incredible. And in fact, quite near where I
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: live of an old line has been restored, the Gloucestershire
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Warwickshire Steam Railway, and it's all run by volunteers who've
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: invested huge amounts of time and I think quite considerable
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: amounts their own money in it. And it is it's
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a proper you know, they really do do the splendor
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: of yesteryear justice. And okay, that's what I'm putting on
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the roads dentted spects is that I'm not not trying
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: to say, you know, in the days of steam rail
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: everything was fine.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: It wasn't.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: But I can perfectly well see why people would be
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: interested in in steam engines, for example, and therefore to
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: write somebody offers as a train spot or a whatever,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: and also again to sort of deviate slightly what's just
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: started now in Iran. If it weren't for plane spotters,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: we would know so much less about what's going on.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: On British British basis.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: So all the intelligence, if one what's called it that
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: which I think it is, actually that you can get
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: from particularly East Anglia, Mildenhall Lake and Heath Fairford in
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: gloucesteria Wiltshire, that these guys are on it. They go there,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: they set up, they have absolutely incredible sophisticated camera equipment
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: and most of all they know what they're looking at.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: And so why would you not take an interest in
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: what they're doing. I'm not necessarily going to be going
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: to join them that to have a peripheral interest in
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: that and an awareness of what it is that it's
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: all about. Yeah, And how I suppose the other way
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I think about it, how terribly dull life would be
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: if we were all interested in just the same stuff. Yeah,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and there wasn't you know, we all did the same stuff.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: That would be very boring. And yet that's in a
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: way where we're supposedly being pushed into a narrower and
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: narrower space where we are only meant to live one
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: version of life, and that would be I think that
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: would be very sad. So I think to always try
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and have an awareness of of other things which may
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: not necessarily become one's passion in life. But they are
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: all interesting. Everything, everything is always something, there's always something
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: there to find.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a good point that we don't
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: we never really understand how important the other can be.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: So there's we have, we have our way of navigating
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: the world, and we we think we have our priorities.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: But like the example of the plain spotter, someone might
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: be doing something completely random over here that you think
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: is unimportant, and yet it plays into this big picture aspect.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: You know, how different do you think people are? It's
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: one of the things that I was thinking about the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: other day. It keeps coming up in a similar way
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: that we've just talked about. We have, we have our
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: perspective on the world, and there's a tendency I think,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: isn't there for humans to think that everyone else is
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: like them in a way because we only have our
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: own experience, so we by nature I think we we
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: kind of transfer that onto what we see out there
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: and maybe shift it a little bit. But sometimes do
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: you because you've traveled a lot, and I think that
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: changes you perspect I think, so, how different, how fundamentally
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: different do you think people are? And then how fundamentally different.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Do you think the elite class, or let's call it
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: the lak class or the ruling Yeah, all.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Right, what's a good job. We got four hours.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I think that there are quite a large number of
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: broadly different types of people. But I think that wherever
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: you go in the world, you will find that society
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: is by large comprised of the same percentages of a
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: type of person. And I think that, like many comparable
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: ways of describing differences, we probably want to consider a
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: triangle pyramid shape with fewer people at when I say
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the top, and it's perhaps a bit misleading, but what
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I really mean is that I think the vast majority
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: of people probably do consider that the majority of people
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: are like them, and they are right, because that is
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I think the way that society works. And I think
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: that we can provide pretty considerable evidence that that's the
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: case because in terms of drives and well, I think
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: in terms yeah, yes, all of that, but I think
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: also the resignation that they're not really in control of
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: their own life or destiny. And I was listening this
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: morning to the first episode of Your Thousand Words with Brian,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and in it you discuss the apparent paradox of people
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: on the face of it, railing against the system of
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: control by saying, you know, well, this is this is
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: not good. I feel oppressed, but at the same time
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: wanting to be told what to do, so still still
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: wanting to be under a yoke of some sort, and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: not thinking. Okay, in actual fact, I think the best
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: thing might be for me to make my own decisions
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: about my life and be realistic about which bits I
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: can and can't control. But the ones that I can't
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: necessarily control, I can either work around or I can
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: certainly ignore to a to a greater degree. And then
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: I think the as that as the triangle, the pyramid
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: tapers towards the top. And again I'm simply using it
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: as a as an idea of a shape, not necessarily
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: suggesting that the top of it is is Actually, yeah,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: it's to do with sort of elite or control or whatever.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: But there are fewer people who are confident in their
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: own ability to manage their own lives, and also who
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: are confident to hold views and to conduct themselves in
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: such a way that they don't really mind what other
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: people's response to that is.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: I think that is absolutely fundamental. Yeah, I really do.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: And I think it's like sole les, let's if we
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: say we talk about the movement, because it's a vague,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: vague way of putting it. But and this movement towards
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: truth or this movement of people, however you want to
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: put it, they just just just go over exactly what
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: you said, though, Just this idea that the cuts confidence,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: isn't it. There's confidence in your in yourself almost.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, well, I mean I think I think that
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the two ways I would put it, but they're obviously
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: taken into twine. One is to actually manage your own life,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: to control your own destiny. But the other thing is
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: to is to have the confidence psychologically mentally to not
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: care if that does not accord with other people's well
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: view or the way in which they want to necessarily live.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: But you see, but those things don't have to be
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: in conflict. Doesn't doesn't mean that you have to be
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: in conflict with somebody who doesn't necessarily think like you.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: And I think again, this is something that people don't
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: really consider that that and this is where it's so
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: dangerous increasingly now through particularly mainstream media, by which I
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: mean the whole loss and not talking about sort of
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: news just about the whole pantheon of cultural inputs. We
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: are being told that if somebody disagrees with you, then
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: there is something wrong with that person and they are
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: in some way they're against you. Rather than being different,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: they're just they're actually against you. And this is a
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: huge danger and people are very susceptible to it.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Last year I won the Sussex Portrait Artists of the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Year competition. It's a timed event where you have four
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: hours to complete a portrait, and this year I'll be
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: taking part in a larger national competition and I've been
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: practicing timed portraits from photographics sent by friends, mainly from
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the Hope, Sussex community. These portraits will be on display
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Hope Sussex Music Festival in August, so get your tickets,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: come along and support a brilliant homeschooling project. As a
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: result of this, I've decided to offer what I'm calling
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: day portraits alongside my standard portrait commission. Normally, I spend
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: a week or two in a portrait, making sure the
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: likeness is one hundred percent accurate, and offering revisions and
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: complex backgrounds. My day portraits are simpler and cost only
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty pounds, a fraction of the cost
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: of a full commission, and so far the response has
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: been one hundred percent positive. So if you're looking for
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: something unique to either gift or having your home, go
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: to my website Jakefern dot co dot uk and add
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: it to your basket. I'm sure that you'll love what
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you receive. You see, the problem is going back to
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: the idea that the vast majority of society is contained
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: within a space where they aren't routinely challenging what is
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: being presented to them. Of course, if that's presented and
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: you think what everybody else is like you, then that
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: creates horrific tension, division, friction, conflict, all of that stuff
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: internally which manifest sex only. So so there is this
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: great sense of unease which again can can be used
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: as a lever to divide wherever you want, especially if
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: there's the suggestion you know that that there is a
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: there is a sort of an upper tier. You know
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: that there are people in society who are sort of
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: more important, more worthy, absolute rubbish, you know, were born
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: the same total rubbish, and yet people will allow themselves
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: to believe it. And I think you know, I don't
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: want to jump ahead, but having having spent some time
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: within what we might describe as the establishment, you know,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: within some of the structures that people look at, I
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: think in terms of great skepticism or actually to a
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: large extent, people don't really understand. But but having rubbed
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: shoulders with a lot of these people, they just just people,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: of course.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't it doesn't say, I think it absolutely does.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And and I remember an early, a very early example
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: of realizing this to be the case and just thinking
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: why that is quite special. I was once on a visit. Gosh,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: these were the days when the Army had enough money
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: to be able to send people who were considering joining
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: the army away on regimental visits to places that weren't
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: very well if the wettest parts of Wales, I'd say,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And I just spent I just spent a couple of
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: weeks in Jamaica. And I was waiting at the airport,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: having had a of a exciting journey to the airport.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I was in the back of a four ton Lorry
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: and it was really in congress. We'd cleared up from
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: a party the night before with some regimental bash, and
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I was in the back of a Fortunner, which you
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: know in this country of course, would absolutely not be
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: permitted at all. It's a freight for you know, it's
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: a cargo ve. There's a holid of really heavy kitchen
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: equipment signing on my own place. And I was in my
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I was in a jacket and tie, sitting in the
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: back of this saying anyway, driving on coast road, and
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: suddenly the next thing I knew, there was a there
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: was a kind of you know, we just dropped like
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: that on one side and all this kitch shot across
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: the floor of the thing. Wow, that was that was
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: something on what's happening? And we the sea seemed to
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: be getting a little bit closer and a little bit close,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: so I could just see out the back through the canvas. Anyway,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: it turned out the front wheel had come off and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: we'd hit we'd landed on the field tank and we'd
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: skidded for about I don't know, two hundred yards across
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the thing.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Anyway, all was well, but.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: The you know that this was at a time when
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: when you could go out and sort of do things differently,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: health and safety didn't really mean so much. But I
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: can remember being kingson airport and watching the people could
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: get off. It's quite small, so you see the people
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: get off the airplane that you're about to get on,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: and they walk into the terminal building and there's a
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: kind of dog leg thing and they walk they walked
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: to towards you, and there's a great big glass screen
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: with a whole load of arrows on it pointing people.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: So they walked towards it, and.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Then they would to turn left, to their left to
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: carry on into the arrival's bid. And I was watching
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: these people, and you know, just in the way that
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: you do. It was just scanning the faces, just thinking,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and I thought, hang on, I recognized that face. And
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: it was Michael Howard, who was the then leader of
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the opposition, the leader of the Conservative Party. And this
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: was there was an international flight, so what two hundred
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: odd people on board, and one person tried to push
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that piece of glass that everybody else had worked that
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: It was Michael Howard. He walked right into it. And
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: it wasn't that he was because he was leader of
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: the Opposition. He was first off the aircraft por chap No,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: he didn't see anyone else. No, he was in the
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: middle of a throng of people and he pushed. So
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: that was a that was an early insight into you,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I suppose, I don't know, you know, the human condition.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: I mean we just kind of cliche. Yeah yeah, yeah, yes,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: absolutely been done for them. Kind yes, yeah, I know
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: that's that is that is a very good point. And
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: but anyway, I mean I don't sing like poor old
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Michael Howard, but but but yes, the the idea that
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: that we should attribute some sort of what do you say,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: some quality perhaps to a particular person according to the
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: status that they have because they because they do hold
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: such and such a position. You know that that that
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: means that somehow they have different I don't know what,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: you know, different cognitive abilities or you know, it's just
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: not it's it's really not the case. And again talking
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: about you know, you just referred to to sort of
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: elite or this, that and the other the other thing
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: that one has to consider. And again we go back
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to the human condition and nature and nurture. But for
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: a huge number of people, this is this is generational.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Look at Donald Trump's family is a very good example.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Look at how his family have been dragged into positions
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: that I think it would be reasonable to assume they
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: never ever would have attained in life had they not
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: been connected.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: To him, and the same would be said, oh him.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: So the idea that people achieve these positions that we
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that we talk about in life entirely on their own
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: merits in the span of their own life is you know,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that's pretty rare. That is that is pretty rare. And therefore,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: you know, you just have to think, like, well, they're
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: all people in extraordinary circumstances. And I don't mean extraordinary
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: in a positive sense of just meaning extraordinary as outside
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: of the outside of the ordinary.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so therefore, you know, I think it's incumbent
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: upon people especially who are listening to this, because I
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: think if if anyone's listening to this, then they're less
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: likely to be in the larger group of society who
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I think, very simplistically do consider that the majority of
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: people are are like them.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: To be tuning into a podcast of this, ilk you've
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: realized that something is different, But then you're faced with
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the binary of in terms of what you do about it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Is it is it you that's going to do something
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: about it? Or is it somebody else that's getting to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: do something about it. So I wouldn't say that you
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: just because you're listening to this necessarily puts you outside
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: of that group. But it certainly means you're you're probably
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: thinking of something different.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it means you at least asking some of the
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: right questions.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, which is well, I mean the first and
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: biggest step really.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, so much, so much to impact there. We could
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: talk about you could talk about the.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: The nature of.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Those kind of people, the people who find themselves in
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: that position. I mean, we talked a little bit with
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Mike about it. But the trauma, intergenerational trauma. Now you
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: get on dodgy ground when you can sund potentially like
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: you're trying to make you're making excuses for people who
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: are doing terrible things. But it's a simple fact of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: life that abused people abuse people. You know, it's the truth.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: So these people are in positions that's not too there's
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: a difference. People. People get nervous when it sounds like
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: you're making next for something. It's about understanding, isn't it.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: It's just simply objectively understanding why things are happening. So
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: you had I haven't had a lot of contact with
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: people in those circles. But I have had one or two,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: and you know, I've heard stories of people who are
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: you know, all that all their friends were raped basically
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: as children who progressed to the next level of some
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Etonian college or I think he was a choir choir
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: boy and he didn't get picked. All of the children
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that got picked through to the next level from eleven
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: twelve onwards were buggered, you know. And then from another friend,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: we hear that the mothers of children who aren't raped
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: are concerned and call it rape rather than you know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: molested or abused, you know, because it often is just rape.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: That they they're worried because it means the children aren't
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: going to progress. You know, This is what I've heard from. So,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: you know, someone like Charles what, what what kind of
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: child did he have one? What kind of suffering did
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: he go through? What lack of love and affection? And
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: and then we talked about this with Brian. A little
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: bit occurred to me while we were talking that there's
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: this loop we were talking about Epstein and this this
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: hold that they have over certain people because they've been
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: involved with child abuse. Well, what attracts someone to be
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: involved in child abuse. Well, it's usually those who have
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: been abused as children. So there's this perfect set up, almost,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: isn't It will abuse them as children, so they therefore
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: abuse children. Therefore we can blackmail them. It's sort of wow,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: that's neat.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, which is absolutely which is horrific. But
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: but put like that makes sense, there's a there's a
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: there's a logic there.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Well, then it begs the question has that situation involved naturally? Well,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: by some kind of design? Is there an external? This
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: is where we start, Well, we're getting into what you know. Yeah,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: this is where ule Noa Hurrari comes into his own
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: as it were. It depends, it depends what your way
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: you're going to draw the line with regard to the
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: definition of natural because his yeah, he posits that, well,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: if someone thought of it and was able to do it,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: it's then it's natural. And yes, okay, I can follow
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I can follow the rational I can follow the logic there.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: But but this is yes, I mean, this is a
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: This is absolutely enormous because how do we know how
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: do we how do we know what has gone before?
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: If we you know, what, what what sort of view
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: are we taking of the path that mankind has taken.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: How far back do we go to be able to
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: look at man and see that he wasn't doing that,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: that people weren't insecure, that there were that the the herd,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: whatever the grouping would have been described as functioned.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Naturally.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's a hard word to define it.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: It is in a way I would agree that literally
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: everything is natural. I mean, you could take the most
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: artificial construction, plastic processed food. It's natural because it's part
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: because part of Yeah, and it was created exactly. It's
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: a question of how much manipulation that has been.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Of that many Yes, So do we need to yeah,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: do we need to read fine terms?
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I mean actually, interestingly, this was part of a conversation
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I was having over the weekend, and I don't account
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: that is going to go out, but this was We've
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: just come off the back of Easter weekend, which was
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I think for most of the country a huge, great
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: surprise because Bankolos are supposed to be wet and yesterday
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: was bone dry and absolutely delightful, but also obviously always
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: a great time to talk and and there's there's always
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of conjecture about the relationship between humans and animals,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and whether we should score ourselves against the way in
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: which animals behave, and whether we consider that we were
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: once or we are animals, or you know, you can
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: go around in circles with all this stuff.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: But the simple fact is that if.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: A squirrel wants to start corrupting other squirrels by selling
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: them drugs and whatnot, it can't, at.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Least as far as far as we're aware.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: And and so therefore we have this idea that we
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: have come unstuck, that we are corrupted, that we are
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: sort of fallen. And I'm not really sure how you
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: ever bottom that argument out exactly, mostly because, as I say,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: we can't go back to a period in time where,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: you know, despite the best efforts of many museums around
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: the country to create what we looked like twenty thousand
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: years ago or whatever, we.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Don't we just we don't know.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: And but I think I think therefore, if we're talking
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: sort of perhaps broader principles, one of the things we
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: have referred to corruption, I think the thing that underpins
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: all of this, or at least is a thread that
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: we can deal with, is dishonesty. And that I think
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: is is.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Sort of where we are.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: When we consider whether or not something's natural. So talking
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: about ultra processed food, that's a really good example. It
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: is it is dishonest to call that food. It might
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: be natural that we can grow something, then process it,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: then put in a packet and then say eat it,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: but it's dishonest to call it food because it doesn't
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: actually do in the way that we define food. It
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't do what it is supposed to do. It doesn't
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it doesn't provide you with the nutrition and critically the
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: sort of health giving properties that it's supposed to.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: So that's a lie. And I think we've.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Well, how on earth to be objective about this, because
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: of course the more you look, more you find. But
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: it looks like, you know, we've started talking about steam
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: trains and whatnot. It looks like the society we live
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: in now is just a more deceitful one than the
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: age of steam.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: How on earth? I know, I wasn't.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I wasn't there either, so I don't know. And actually,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: when you when you evaluate let's say, the sort of
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: crime literature during the age of steam, actually it was
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: going great guns, So I mean, presumably people were still
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: very deceitful and whatnot.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Maybe we've just found different ways to do it.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: So I'm not sure we have really get to the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: to the bottom of that, but I do think that
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: that honesty and sincerity are are the ways in which
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: you can draw a pretty you know, but a sort
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: of definitive vied as it were.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: So therefore maybe it's just more useful, you know, maybe
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: maybe we can put the natural.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well because because yes, because we just chase it
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: all day. We don't, we don't, we don't really know
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: in terms of honesty, yeah, because because I mean the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: natural the argument. The natural argument is one of the
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: one of the things that you know, humans will say, oh, well,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: you know, home sexuality is not natural because because animals
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: don't do it, But actually they do do, and so.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: There could be any number of natural reasons for it.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: You know, the idea that the animal kingdom regulates its
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: own populations in times of scarcity or abundance. I mean
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: that that is is very very obvious to see that happen.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: You can see that even on a on an on
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: an annual or seasonal basis. So and indeed plants as well,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: they do exactly the same thing.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: So again it.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Is this key about what they choose.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, very like the practical level. Yeah, as a whole.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not bothered about.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: But then going back to the natural thing, we don't
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: know because we've we have absolutely lost touch with all
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: of our senses. What we don't know is whether the
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: proportion of society that that well basically that you know,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: in terms of reproduction, whether we are in fact self
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: limiting or not. And this goes back to all sorts
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: of things concerning the agricultural revolution and.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: What it is.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: You know, what is our purpose? Are we Are we
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: just here to appropriate? Are we here to increase the
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: size of our population? Are we here to dominate other
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: populations of other species? You know, there there are many
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: many questions which which presumably we're not going to manage
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: to answer in today's session sort.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Of them or that.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well we'll have a go. But but the
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: point is, sorry, I know this seems like a deviation,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: but it is. Yeah, well let's say, but the but
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: this is because it does I think it does relate
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: very much to what you're talking about with for example,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: child abuses as a mechanism for perpetuating a control system,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: and and by large it is it's effectively. I don't
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: mean to belittle it by saying, but it is a
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: it's a dishonesty.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: It is not being upfront about why you want to
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: control people. So therefore you have to use tactics by
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: which that doesn't really come up. You're not you're not
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: having to sit somebody down and explain to them why
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: it is that you want them to do such such thing.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: You're just putting them in a position where they have
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to do it, or you're making it extremely like that
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: they will by permitting them to undergo that sort of abuse, which,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: as you quite rightly point out, it is known that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that has a very high likelihood of recurring in the
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: in the victim. So but do you see a lot
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: of what we're probably going to talk about might seem
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: to be very negative. That is very negative, But all
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: of this has it is there's there's the other side
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: to the coin, which is that this works the other way.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: So people who do live a life where love and
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: honesty and care and strength and all these things are nurtured,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: that also gets perpetuated through generations. Yes, I think you know,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: otherwise we wouldn't be he know, we wouldn't We wouldn't
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: be having these sorts of discussions. And I think it's
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: very easy to forget or very easy to lose sight
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: And also.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: The other thing I think is that if we're talking
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: about individuals who are going back to the sort of
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: earlier stages of conversation, talking about individuals who are who
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: are happy to crack on find their own path and
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: not to care what others think in a totally non
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: conflict sense. So you know, I will just do my
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: own thing. I'm not going to tread on your toes.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: If you disapprove or whatever, doesn't matter. It would be
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: great if everybody was happy.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: I think that.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I think that those sorts of people are not going
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: to be inclined to jump up and down and saying right,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: everybody's got to do this thing. Everybody's got to do that.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Whereas the unfortunate thing is that people who are more
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: inclined to be involved in childbist and whatever want to
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: bend the world or humanity to their to their will.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: And that's that that that is the inherent problem that
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I think we can never get away.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the more the more internal pain you're feeling,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: the more you need to control the external world.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So the more the more broken and chaotic you are,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: you there, the more underaligned with truth you are. Yes,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: you have to perpetually and control. You have to control
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: because it's not true, because it's a lie. When you
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: live in an authenticity, you don't have to control it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it well And I
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: think that's it. And you do see that with people.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: You see people having to construct a narrative that makes
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: sense that in order that they can sort of understand
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and believe in the reality that they're that they're living through,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: which which of course we all have to do. We
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: absolutely do, we do.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: But the extent to which we attached to it is
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: probably the key aspect of that. Because we all have
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: a model that we use to navigate as a map
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: we could move through the world. But if you're not
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: prepared to just change maps as the observations changed, then
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: you you're screwed. And it just occurrens to me when
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: you were talking about this is the idea of natural
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: and unnatural and these questions which are you know, we
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: just showed how difficult that is to answer. And rather
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: than accept that difficulty in that that sit in that
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: space of I don't know, we see people jumping into
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: myth and belief. So we have creation stories that kind
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: of fill that void. And for example, now you have
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: dogmatic Christians who would argue that you know everything, that
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: that their definition of natural and unnatural would be.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Well, it says here, yes, quite yeah, I mean.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I'm picking on dogmatic Christians, but there's no multitude different
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: kind of faith that the same thing.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: But but that is that is such a good example.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: The it says here because that I was not enough
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: for I was thinking about that on my drive down
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: this morning.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: And again it goes back.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: To this position of of dishonesty. So the rules and
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: regulations by which a society, particularly you know, a civilized
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: society which we're constantly told we live in, these rules
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: and regulations very seldom say what they actually mean. And
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: so if you take that down to really really sort
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of stupid low level, no you go onto a bus
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: or something, no cheering gum, you can't you can't have.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: America would never to come beside the point.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: What they actually mean is we don't want cheering gum
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: left on the bus or stuck to the seat, but
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: they don't say that. So the rule is no chewing gum.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: In the same way that you have zones now run
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: by local authorities where there's no alcohol, but they don't
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: actually mean no alcohol. They mean no drunken, debauched, violent behavior,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: but they're not going to say that. And so that
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: there are two effects. That one is the very obvious one,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: which is that it's dishonest. You're being you're being presented
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: with a case that actually has no real basis or
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: an argument or a prohibition or whatever it is. So
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: that that is part of it. And I think the
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: other thing in doing that is to create these blanket conditions.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: And to imagine if you if you look at it
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: the other way around, it's as though if you're sort
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: of getting onto a bus and you're told nature it's
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: this assumption of bad faith, is that everybody in some
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: ways is sort of is up to something like the
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: airport security thing. You know, we're told that such and
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: such a thing happened on an aeroplane. So now everybody,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: everybody is a suspect. Everybody has to reveal this, that
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: and the other. I mean, you know, it's and that's
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: a terrible way. I know these sound like sort of
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: rather frivolous examples, but they're not because they they do
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: actually speak volumes about the way in which society is
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: sort of held in check, and unfortunately it tells us
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: a lot about how people just accept it.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Well, not only do they accept it, I think they
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: actually want it. Yes, because yes, because if you if
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: you talk to people, they they need authority because they haven't.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Now we're going back to the question of sovereignty. Essentially,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: they haven't learn and to trust themselves. Yes, how can
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: earth can they trust anyone else?
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: Exactly?
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: So, I think there's this parent child relationship that people
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: have with government that they accept the role of a child,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: and they think everyone else is it needs to be
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: governed like a child because we haven't nurtured wisdom, common sense,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: you know, all these things. So essentially you have got
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: this chaos which needs they think needs. I mean, for me,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's a horse before the cart thing.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: It's a perpetual cycle of that. You know, they treat
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: us like children. Therefore we don't have the skills to
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: act like mature adults. Therefore we need we need governing
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: like children, and it just goes round and around. And
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: that's what I think that That's why I think the
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: truth movement, whatever it is, it's absolutely the most essential
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: thing is not necessarily to know every detail of you know,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: what money has been sent here or that. It's the
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: first most important important thing is to learn to accept
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: your sovereignty and to learn to be sovereign and whatever
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: comes from that.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, And I think the first part of that
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: is is being sovereign of mind.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I think I think there.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Is that from what I see, I think an awful
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: lot of people put themselves off before they've actually given
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: any of that a chance.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: In that.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: The obvious example is is what happened in twenty twenty,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: when I think there would have been only a very
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: very small number of people in the United Kingdom at
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: least who didn't in some way have some aspects of
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: their life affected when the government says, right, everything's got
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: to stop. And it wasn't because the government said it,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: it was because everybody did it. And in fact, of course,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: if we think back, an awful lot of organizations in
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: particular had already done it before the government even told
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: them to jump. You know, a lot of businesses had
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: already sent people home to work from home whatever that
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: was really supposed to mean, and this, that and the other,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: and so I think that was such an awful shop
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: for so many people. And it was such a it
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: was physical is not quite the right word, but you
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: were prevented from doing certain things that you wanted to
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: simply because those things weren't even happening. You know, you
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: couldn't you couldn't do it. So but the thing is
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: that I think because of that, a lot of people
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: considered and do consider and we'll have done in years
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: prior that. Therefore, you can't even be in a sovereign
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: state of mind because you're constrained perhaps in what you
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: can and can't do. But I don't see it like
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: that at all. I think I think you can absolutely
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: be sovereign of mind even if you haven't been able
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: to affect the changes that you that you want to.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: And again, even if you start to make those changes
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: but you haven't achieved everything that you're setting out to, well,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: it's a it's it's a process. You can't possibly hope
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: to to just transform everything like that and too it
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: and just because it doesn't happen. That is not a
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: is absolutely not a failure. So I think people need
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: to be much more well, I suppose, positive in the
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: face of adversity, but also more realistic and more more
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: willing to consider what they have, what they have achieved,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: and even just holding that holding that position in your
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: mind because because for a lot of people, that is
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: a very very difficult thing to do, especially in the
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: weight of considerable apparent public opinion that your point of
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: view is wrong. And this is where I do think
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: that the situation is deteriorating, because the idea that to
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: hold a position can be considered dangerous. I mean that
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: is that that is really really appointing. That is, that
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: is absolutely psychological torture, and yet people are blindly going
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: along with it and and entering into it.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Particularly young young people who've grown up with that, yeah,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: being accepted as normal over the last ten to fifteen years.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: So so no, I mean the way I the way
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: I think I do consider all of this is that
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: is that the and today it is too it's to
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: always remain remain positive, remain optimistic, and just carry on
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: doing what what you want to do. Carry on thinking
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: what what you want to think? And and and no one,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: you know, really, no one can take that away from you.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you ever do you ever struggle yourself
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: with because it's public figure and you're out there and
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: you know some people you can you can, you can,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: you can have a positive attitude and then maybe you
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: can go and hide away for six months. But if
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: you're in the public eye, you've got a position, You've
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: got a sort of commitment and a responsibility to the
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: UK column. And I just I will ask you in
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: a minute just about the UK column. Do you ever feel,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: oh god, I just trying to go away for six
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: months and live in the jungle and get away from it,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: And what do you feel?
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, well, any temptation to go and live
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: in a jungle for six months is not necessarily the
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: product of the first bit of the question, as in, yeah,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I mean I'd love to get live in a jungle
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: six months. We would be completely fascinating. But if I
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: did do that, I would definitely come back and talk
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: about it and make a you know, make a positive
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: outcome from it. But no, I mean I'm pleased to
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: say that I that I don't feel like that, I.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Think I.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Have. I think, even in a sort of short period
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: of time that I've been involved in it this, I've
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: probably had periods of time where I've been surprised, perhaps
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: by the response of certain people to certain events, or
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: the perhaps the UK column coverage of events and whatnot.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: But I think that comes a position of an incorrect assumption,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: which is that.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: And to be fair, I do remember this, But are
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: you referring to What.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: I'm referring to is is the idea that what we're
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: just talking about, you know, having having this this positive
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: frame of mind of being being sovereign in your own
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: being and your own mind, and that therefore that is
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: universally and unmitigatedly a positive and so therefore, really what
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: have you got to worry about? In really simple terms,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: and thinking that anybody who has you know, you're talking
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: about a movement. But but but anybody who's seeing broadly speaking,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: seeing the world like we're like we're seeing to think that, Okay,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: therefore people are thinking positively and that they are not
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: susceptible to this, that and the other. But that, of
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: course that that is unrealistic. It turns out next the
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: case again, I mean you know, I should be very
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: clear if that, if that does happen and there's a
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: reaction against something, I absolutely don't take that as being
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: a disaster at all. And and in fact, you know,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: I'm delighted to say that. Well, first of all, the
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: great joy of uk colin being a membership organization and
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: having a having a really close sort of connection with
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: our members and viewers and whatnot means that you do
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: actually have this level of personal contact that I don't
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: think any other organization will have come close to, which
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: is pretty phenomenal. But also it does mean that when
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it does happen, you know, because let's face it,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: although I'm putting a positive spin on things, I absolutely
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: acknowledge people are in people have terrible life situations, and
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: then it is a it is a real real mental
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: battle to retain your sanity and to think that you
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: are you know, sort of let's say, sovereign, and all
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: these kinds of things. So I'm not I do not
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: belittle any of what might come in or any reaction
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: against things. But what I what I do think is
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: positive is that I think in every instance where I've
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: had sort of direct communication with anybody, that's presented.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Let's say, a view.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: That they're not entirely happy with the way in which
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: we have dealt with something we know, maybe something I've
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: said personally or whatever. I think we've parted friends every
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: single time, so it's just been the beginning of a
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: dialogue in which you know, there's sort of well that
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: if that was not clear, what I really mean is
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: this and blah blah blah. And it's absolutely always worth
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: the investment of time because because there's always a good outcome.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: I honestly I can't think of a single person who
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: has who has sort of gone away thinking yeah, okay,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: that this is that's that I'm yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: and you know, and I sort of say that as
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: though you know that that's gosh, how great. But that's
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: as it should be. We really should not be falling
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: out with each other all the time, regardless of what
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: which sort of side of any fence you might consider
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: that you're on. I mean, this is the thing, I think,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I don't really consider that there are all these these
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: barriers that we're that we're told are there, because I
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: think they are to a certain extent, but really aimly
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: to a certain extent, and and in actual fact, we
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: can often find that we have much more in common
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: with people than either party would perhaps allow themselves to believe.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: And so we're talking more here about division within a
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: sort of a group of people.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Who yeah, well yes, sorry, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Sympathetic yes.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: But then again, I am coming back to your jungle
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: thing with with the well, I think I don't know,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: were you about to ask about how you how you
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: regard added by other people who don't necessarily share your
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: point of view?
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: I know it's more just just just asking you, do
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: you ever feel like just the psychological pressure, not necessarily
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: of people dumping their stuff on you, but just the
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: weight of what we're dealing with do you say you know?
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: And having to dive into it, because there's a difference
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: between being aware of stuff yeah and having to explore
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: and exploring in your role the UK column role is
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: to go deeper. And I spoke for myself. I don't
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: want to like yeah okay, it's not because I'm afraid to.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: It's just like, okay, get my energy somewhere else, yeah yeah, yes, exactly.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Whereas when you've got a role in it's harder to
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: do that. I mean, it's silly. Example, I think I
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: listened to the DJs in the morning sometimes because my
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: son is since the heart every morning. They have to
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: be so joggish and spout this. I know they're getting
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: paid well, but I would struggle, or even musicians who
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: have to go out and perform with emotion every night.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: I like performing, but I do it.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, fair enough.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I guess you know half FM's
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Dodges billet there if I'm not having to luck. But no,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: I think I take your point. But then again, I
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: also think that's why I am here and not on
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: hot FM. I mean, I would I spend that much
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: time thinking about Hot FM. But anyway, yes, no, for me,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: it's it overlaps.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think I have any moments of thinking that
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: that it's all too big or too scary. I don't
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: about anything, and because because you know, if you do,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: then more then more, what's the point. And there's a
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: ridiculous position to put yourself in.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: So that's very that's a military man speaking.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, maybe, but but we'll yeah, we'll come to that.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: We'll come to that. I can I can explain that.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: But but yes, well, first of all, what we do
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: and actually this is I think this is a good one.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: I like your this Heart FM thing good because because
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: heart FM, if if he, if he or she is
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: looking out of their studio wind in the morning and
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you know there's someone's bins blown over, the rubbish frol
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: over the street, it's pouring brains just you know, someone's
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: had a.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: Crash or whatever.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: It's it's all you know, how do you how do
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: you turn that into a you know, well, morning morning everybody.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: It's quite difficult. Well what we're doing now and and
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: have been, I mean, craiky, I've only just turned up.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: But but what Brandon might have been doing for twenty
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: years is building a story upon the building blocks that
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: they started with. You know what Brian very first started
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: looking into. And therefore it is a it is a
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: different thing because the Heart FM bloke is not saying,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: oh gosh, you know that bin yesterday. When I was
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: talking about that bin yesterday, it was standing up and
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: it looked so happy and it was you know, it
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: was wonderful. Chances are they probably didn't mention it, and
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: so that they don't they don't start from that same,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: that same place, whereas I think what we're doing now
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: is building and drawing a lot of things together that
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: other people can't necessarily see the connections between. Does that
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: mean that the viewer or the listener, or the member
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: or the intermittent sort of part of the UK column
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: audience has to pay absolutely rigid attention to every single detail.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: No, absolutely not.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: And does it mean that if you are researching such
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: and such a thing for a news program that you
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: need to be able to dig into every single bit
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: of background detail.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: No, probably not.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: But and again we all, I think as personalities, we
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: will all deal with it slightly differently. But I find
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: that in fact, when you when you ask your brain
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: to do something, by and large, it's quite it's quite
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: just going to use the word complian, but that's probably
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: they're all. You know, it responds, And I think it
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: immediately when looking at a particularly new story, you know
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: you do. And and this is where I really take
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: issue with people who think artificial intelligence is the future,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: because you bring to mind so many things that might
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: be directly related, could be a tangent, could be just
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: a sense of you know, whatever it is. And I
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: think that we as humans, we will always have the
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: absolutely always have the edge on that. But but no,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I mean I think the I think where we thrive.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe I should just say I in terms of what
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: we're what we're doing, and what we what we deliver
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: is in fact, the sense of excitement at at seeing
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: it for what it is and being able to say,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: by the way, you know, the government or this organization
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: or whatever is dressing up something as this when an
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: actual fact, it's it's that and that's not depressing. That's
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, exciting is the wrong word, but that is
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: it's useful to be able to do because to be
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: caught out later on, to be blindsided to not realize,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: is a massive handicap in life. And so that that's
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: the way I look at it. I think, I mean,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: I I the last sort of job I had, as
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: it were, was was working for the police for what
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: was actually only a short period of time, but you know,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: I was working as a detective and and a lot
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: of what I am doing now it's actually quite similar
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: but really much more fun. So no, in no way
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: do I find it sorry the reason for mentioning that
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: obviously a lot of what one's dealing with as a
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: detective can be extremely depressing, But then again it's just
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: how you frame that in your own mind. Are you
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: going to be weighed down by what is essentially very
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: depressing or are you going to think right, well, the
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: whole point of me looking at this is to be
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: able to do something about it, and it's exactly the
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: same with the UK column. The only reason we're looking
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: at this is in order that people can do something
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: about it. Forewarned is forearmed, and in fact, I think
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: it might be this week. I've recently interviewed a lady
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: who has been a UK column member for some time,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: and this is absolute perfect demonstration what I mean.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, I.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Absolutely concede. I do bang on, I bang on a
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: lot about agriculture, use of land, food, you know, came
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: back to your health through process things basically about the
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: absolute corruption of the whole sort of land and environmental
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: movement and how the result is just fast profits for
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: everybody that shouldn't shouldn't be involved even in the first place,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: terrible diet, death and destruction and all those kind of things.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: But obviously, if you get a grip and you're able
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: to do your own thing, you can have a great
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: life and eat well, be healthy and whatnot. Anyway, a
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: lady member got in touch after listening to me banging
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: on about this and said, oh, well, back in twenty
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: twenty one we grouped us up in Derbyshire, joined together
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: and bought land and entered into exactly that thing.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: You know what a great story.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you see, if we sit there like puddings
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: and we don't put this stuff out, then we don't
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: create that sense of their being an iterative sort of
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: snowballing process. And that is absolutely the way I see it.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: We do the research, we do the analysis, we put
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: the stories out. It's entirely up to the audience as
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: to how they receive that information. But we are very cautious,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: as Brian always says, we want to give a measured,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: rational view. We're not ever going to try to panic
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: or scare amongk of people.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: What is the point.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Everybody else is trying to do that, so we are
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: acting as a sort of counter to that. But the
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: way I see it is that we deal with these topics,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: we present the information, people react and they do what
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: it is they do, and we will get feedback and
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: sometimes that will be I tried this, it worked. I
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: tried this, it didn't work. I told certain so that
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: you know, and then that comes back into us and
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: it continues to feed. So I see that despite the
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: fact that, as you say, some of the subject matter
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: can be you can consider it at face value, of course,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: to be negative, I see that the whole process as
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: being extremely positive, and so so the idea, because the
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: reason this comes up a lot is because, of course
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of people you've got, you've got the sort
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: of people are trapped in the BBC sphere whatever, and
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: then a huge void in the middle where people have
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: just stepped away from news altogether because they just they
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: just don't want to engage in it. Now, that's fine,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily going to criticize them, because I totally
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: understand where that comes from. But I feel that we
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: are if we're saying it's a spectrum, we are at
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum where we're doing something
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: so wellly positive, and I can entirely see why people
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: might not look at it like that. But this goes
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: back to our our wealth. Sorry, my suggestion that we
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: are as a society broadly a sort of a triangular
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: or pyramid shape where the majority of people are not
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: going to be doing the you know, not not going
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: to be making those those progressive or positive steps, and
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: so yeah, it's it's a trap. But again a lot
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: of those people will fall into the well just known
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: news and my you know, my message is always well, okay, fine,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: but then you're not really putting yourself in a position
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: where you can change your circumstances. You know, if you're
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: just going to be gloomy about it and not do
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: anything for yourself, then our ability to help you is
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: really limited. And if it's not too unkind to say,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: you know, then my my sympathy also is a little
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: bit diminished because you want, you know, people will go
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: back to the whole authority figure. Is it is it
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: that you want somebody else to sort it out, or
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: is it that you want to take ownership and have
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: the satisfaction of sorting out yourself. You know, what's your
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: what's your choice? And I know which mine is and
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: not leave, you know, and you take everything comes with that.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: If you cock it up, it's your it's your fault too,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: and you know, and that is a really important part
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: of it, because the other thing of the sort of
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: you know, the white hat savior piece is that if
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: it goes wrong, oh god, you know, and I went
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: I followed her and say, and then it's just all
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: gone wrong, all right. And again so somehow it's not
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: your fault, and that is you know, to my mind,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: that's that's just crazy. That's that's not the way to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: to live life. But yeah, we yeah, okay, anyway, we'll
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: come back to animals. But so, no, I don't feel
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I don't feel negative about stuff. I don't feel golomy
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: back stuff. And an actual fact with regard to as
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: you say, sort of you know, being in the public
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: art and actually fact, it actually takes life an awful
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: lot easier personally because I do this for a living now,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: so I don't have to I don't have to sort
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: of hide.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: As it were. Well, you know, you don't have to
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: be in that in that do you know what I mean?
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: I don't have to be in that position where well,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: going back to my background, both both personal and professionalized,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: those where my views might not necessarily chime with everybody
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: that I've rubbed alongside over the years, and there was
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: a period of I would say some never overse actually,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: but some slight awkwardness when it was quite clear that,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: you know, the suggestion that the government are all sort
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: of psychopathic conngenital liars, you know, was perhaps a little
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: bit too much. But then if you're doing that as
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: a if that's part of what you're doing for a living,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: and then it's fine and it doesn't But and then on
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: the on the other side of that, the other terrific thing,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: and this is where I really am delighted to be
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: doing what I'm doing is being able to measure the effect.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: And this is something that you know that businesses should
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: talk about all the time but probably don't. There's no
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: point in doing anything that you can measure the effect.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: You know, if you're going to make a business, you've
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: you've got to be able to understand what is that
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: actually doing, what is that delivering apart from making us
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: feel like we're doing this, and that you've got to
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: be able to measure it. And I am able to
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: do that in some small way because because what I
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: do is public and because I do put you put
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: stuff out there onto platforms that I know people see.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: I am constantly amazed by going to you know, events
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: or gatherings from sort of various past lives and meeting
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: people that I haven't seen for decades, and absolutely immediately
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: people will say, you know, really really love what you're
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: doing with UK Colera. I just think, wow, I did
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: not have you down as a And this is the problem.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: This is part of the trap, because we live in
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: an age where we're told that if so and so
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: says that, you know, well, perhaps we should just think
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: a little bit more about the you know, what we're
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: being told about climate change. You know, even to think
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: about that is professional suicide or indeed personal excommunication from
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: all the networks that you might have been part of.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: So you never hear about this stuff because people do
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: not you know, publicly declare that that's what they might think.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: And yet when they see that somebody else is doing so,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: of course they want to talk about it. And so this,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: you know, this stuff does work, and that is that
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: is really positive. And I'm not just slapping myself on
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: the back saying, you know, or a great personal decision.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: What I mean is that the UK column mission to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: be a sort of straight down the line news organization
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: does it really does work? And I do I do
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: credit Brian's vision in particular when he started out, he
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: can absolutely see what needed to be done in or yeah, yeah,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: and it works. Okay, You're still always going to have
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: a large number of people who will just not engage.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: But you know, I mean a crik would be seal
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: of us to take that personally. It will take it
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: as an insult, will take it as a failing. That
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: is that is well beyond our control. I'm afraid at
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: the moment. But no, there's there's a there's a gathering momentum,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: there's a gathering effect. I mean, I've seen that in
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: the time that I've that I've been around, so yeah,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: it's it's terrific. However, when you go out on the
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: streets and you actually watch police in action, it's it's
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: almost as though they've had the picture, you know, back
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: to front. Yeah, the division and vitriol. Yes, I mean,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: it doesn't belong in any any debate. Ever, when when
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: he was taking seriously the suggestion that Edward Heath and
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: others were involved in all sorts of things that it
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have been, that is very, very controversial. But I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: can again, I can substantiate exactly why it is.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: I do think that