Latest / The Electrical Show / Thomas Nagy and Paul Meenan discuss specialising in solar PV

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Thomas Nagy and Paul Meenan discuss specialising in solar PV · The Electrical Show

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  The Electrical Show with Thomas naji Welcome to the Electrical Show with Bosch a professional
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  and Thomas Nagie. And here, as always is Paul Meenan. And on
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  today's show we are going to be taking another look and another specialism, solar
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  PV. Paul, give us a bit of context around this ism. It's
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  quite an exciting one, it's quite a dangerous one. It's one that involves
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  a lot of working at heights. But just to not stop you and interject,
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  the term solar is an overarching term used by industry, much like pyro
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  is. Solar can bean water heating on the roof, and it can also
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  mean electricity generation on a roof. Obviously. The PV aspect is the short
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  abbreviation for photovoltaic, which is in I think it's section seven one two of
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  b SM six seven one. If my brain isn't completely rotted, thanks straight,
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  But yeah, it's it's photovoltaics. It's yeah, it's energy from light
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  effectively. So yeah, hence fabulous fixed radio. Time to crack on.
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  This is the Electrical Show, and we are talking about making solar PV your
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  specialism. So if you've just tuned in, do not worry. We've just
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  we're literally just about to get started now, Paul, the pros of working
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  in PV. What are we thinking pros and working in PV? Because it
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  was really hot, Like it's a weird irony in what you've just said that
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  it can get really hot. Well figured it was speaking. It was really
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  hot, like I don't know seven eight years maybe ten years ago there was
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  and then it dipped again and now it seems to be kicking off again.
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  Yeah, it's because the first generation, the solo has kind of coming to
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  the end of its life. And that first generation was about you know,
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  panels at one hundred and fifty wat's two hundred watts where the government were paying
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  your ridiculous amounts of money. Now you can get panels six eight hundred wats,
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  so you've got far more tripling your generation efficient see with a modern system.
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  So I'm just getting off on a tangent. I'm wondering those systems that
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  were fitted back in like two thy ten. I wonder how many of those
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  inverters panels are still functioning. Probably quite a few, because I know we
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  were working in the Southwest fitting them for where Somerset Housing and all these people.
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  I mean some of the inverters they were fitting were so I mean,
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  there were well rough I think it was I'm not going to say the company
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  name, but it was rough, and I'm like, I think there was
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  there was a mad rush to get them installed. There massive rush. If
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  you remember, there was a limitation on what you could connect to the DNO,
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  so I think it was like anything over free killer wats you needed permissions.
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  So they deliberately made them like two point nine Killer Watch yeah systems,
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  so they didn't have to get permission. Yeah. The ones that we had
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  were six sixteen panels was the most that we could fit, and there were
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  some routes that we could fit many more to, but sixteen was the limit.
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  So there was some sort of it was an energy limit. Yeah,
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  yeah, I think it's ninety eight or ninety nine relays that you have to
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  have switching and you have to have permission from the DNOS depending on the size
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  of it. I think sixteen amphiphas or something. But in the early days
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  of solo PV, I think it was even more dialed down because it was
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  a new technology, much like you know the open technology and EV chargers.
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  Again, more demands more technology connected to the grid makes them more cautious.
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  But I'm pretty sure the first generation some of them were tiny. I mean,
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  it be interesting to know how many of those are still, whether they've
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  actually had to have new panels fitted, or whether the panels themselves are still
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  cleaned. One of the key parts of solar PV is if you don't clean
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  the panels, the efficiency goes in the toilet because they just get layers of
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  film and dust. So if you do have a solo PV system, are
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  you maintaining early are you washing it every year to clean all the dicies down?
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  People assume the rain or wash it because I remember some of them were
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  like, oh self cleaning, you haven't got to clean them. Don't start
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  me with all that self cleaning rubbish. It's marketing junk. Yeah, all
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  right, well, look what about challenges we're likely to encounter when working with
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  this. Heights obviously is one. I'm gonna be good, good with heights,
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  good with scaffolding. Well, you've gotta be willing to meet your maker
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  because it is a It is a job where you need brown trouser ppe,
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  that's for sure, especially in all sorts of weathers. Yeah, the challenges
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  I think are the technical aspects of it to be perfect honest, if you
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  there's a whole level of you know my phrase, trust but verify. The
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  technology is moving quite fastly, and one of the one of the biggest challenges
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  I've found realistic is just people's expectations against reality. A lot of people will
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  install solar PV systems and not service and maintain it. And I mean I
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  was reading a report forget, yeah, and forget, and they're not You've
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  got to maintain it. Because I saw a report from Australia the other day
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  in the news and it was just a rock that was dropped by a bird
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  on a solar panel and it cracked the solar panel and that was enough for
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  it to get hot, and it lay there undetected until it got so hot
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  it and ended up catching fire. And you've just got a Google solo PV
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  fires. Now there are more and more of these solar PV fires, and
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  that's that's kind of how the solar PV trade mags have actually said it's now
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  the end of the first generation of solar panels because but if you if you
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  clean it, if you inspect it, if you maintain it. I mean,
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  when I do my ones where I work, we solo image thermal imaging
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  camera to look for hidden dangers on the connections on the panels. Because the
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  last thing you want is this is a generator you can't switch off. Unless
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  somebody's figured out how to switch the sun off, it will always consistently generate.
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  It's incredibly dangerous and it needs servicing and maintainer. So please don't think
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  it's fit and forget all about the money side of it. What do we
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  think the money's like because the money back then used to be good. There
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  was good, solid money in it. But I don't know. I actually
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  genuinely don't know now being honest with you, that it is good money.
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  It really is still good money. But that's in the commercial industrial world where
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  they fit mega megasystems like big, huge two hundred fifty kilot plus. In
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  the domestic world, I know some guys and they struggle because they have I'm
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  going to say standards, but all they do is meet the standard requirements.
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  But there are people who literally I mean I heard a story of a guy
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  who was basically going around was civil's groundworker, and it was just measuring up
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  the walls, measuring up the roofs, getting a tiler out. Just yeah,
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  basically he was a middleman who's a postbox and then he would just basically
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  go out and get electrician and whoever was cheapest, someone straight out of college,
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  panels of their mate, just link the cables in a way you go,
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  and he was making a fortune out of it. I know a lot
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  of good PV contractors who struggle every single day because they price their job with
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  the best intent, the right principles, and the right tech, and they
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  get out priced by people who don't know that they don't know stuff. The
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  Electrical Show on fixed radio. You're listening to the Electrical Show Iron Thomas Naji
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  with Paul meaning here, and we've been looking at photo voltech PV as a
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  specialism in our trade. Now, Paul, how about some of the concerns
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  for working in PV, Because we said, obviously it's sunlight, so it
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  never switches off. It's a topic that generates his own chat. And there's
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  a weird pun in that somewhere as well. Anyway, enough of my really
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  drass poor puns. Yes, so some of the key concerns I'm finding at
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  the moment is the fire safety risk. You've only got a Google PV fires
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  to see lots of visual displays of houses burning to a crisp. One of
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  the other things that I've found is about it's a bit of a real story
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  about four plus years ago now, I per fitted a load of solar PV
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  on a station and I was debating the protection against transient over voltage E surge,
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  and I was reading a BCN standard which I can't remember the top my
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  head, so I apologize, and it referred to basically installing surge protection on
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  the DC strings, then having a DC isolator before you go to inverter,
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  and then on the output the invert you then have an ACID which then links
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  to an AC surge protection device and then that way any types of surges on
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  either the dcor AC side are managed. More importantly, the safe isolation.
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  Via a mechanical switch. You can lock off the AC side, lock off
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  the DC side, remove the invert for maintenance, repair, replacement, and
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  you don't have to worry about these little black plugs. These little black plugs
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  are known to fail and catch fire. Personally, I would never disconnect the
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  plugs in my hands underload. So this is why I prefer DC search.
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  So I had an argument, this is what I required in the install and
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  the contracts. Go, I know you don't have to do that. Low
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  and behold fast forward four years, those BScN standards work their way into the
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  iron rigs and it's now in section seven one two, which was rewritten in
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  Amendment two. So you now have to consider surges of a DC nature,
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  surgies of an AC nature, atmospheric events, all that good stuff, all
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  that transient surge protection. And if you are going to do it, remember,
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  if it's outside the building, it's technically a type one type two combined.
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  A lot of people put type two in because it's within the building.
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  But what are you protecting against stuff that comes from external? So you need
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  to consider that as well. So make sure if you're not up to date
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  with your search protection knowledge is well worth doing some surge protection CPD. But
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  so for me, the three biggest concerns fire safety, surge protection, and
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  correct mechanical and electrical isolation. A wealth of knowledge. You know, you
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  talk to me or I go down my little history, my little history chats.
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  You know the same thing, but you do it any history chats A
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  joyous of them. What about the personality types for this ism as it were,
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  That's an interesting one. I don't know what personality. I would say
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  the mindset of a scaffolder, because they have zero fear and are not afraidly
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  God, it's a very dangerous part of the profession. And more importantly,
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  you've got to you've got to be able to take a heall of a lot
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  of risk because I see a lot on social media of people go and look
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  at my solo install and they put a picture of the house and the roof
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  is Mullard and you sit there and go, why would you put a brand
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  new thirty thou pound twenty grand whatever it is, solo PV system on our
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  roof that is shot to pieces. I don't understand that mindset. So just
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  be wary if you do do those alterations to a roof, any leaks that
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  come from it, it could be very, very expensive, So make sure
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  you're insured. So someone who's got a healthy risk appetite, Yeah, I
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  think it would fit. I don't know how much. I don't know.
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  I know what he's saying going about personality ties, but how much money can
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  you actually earn in the domestic sector doing this because like you just said,
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  well, you're going to have a healthy risk appetite. That's like if you
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  there's no point if you can't. But yeah, that's that's topic for another
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  time. But I think stick with the wealthy clients in the domestic sector one
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  four hundred text and if you are thoughts on this could be interesting to hear
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  your thoughts on it. Oh yeah and started, I've just been shouted at
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  by our producer. He comes in over the Mike Cageley started message with the
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  word fix. Otherwise it would go to a radio station in Bombay. So
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  excellent. Yes, Now what do you think the future of solar looks like?
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  I think it's it's going to grow and grow and grow. Yes,
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  I think there's still it would be nice to see some feedback from the network
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  operators as far as how they monitor and measure their networks if there's any interference
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  or any DC leakage issues. But the future for me, if you're thinking
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  about that combined with other technologies, I think the power generated is DC.
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  I can see us having rectifiers rather than inverters, and a rectifier is basically
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  just something that effectively creates DC from AC. I can see us taking something
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  that stabilizes that DC and goes to a duel or split board where the top
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  part of your board like a double stack board, basically where the top part
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  will be DC, the bottom part will be AC, and rather than having
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  all these losses, you will have a fire. Yeah, some sort of
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  rectifire with a small battery which will allow you to power USB sockets and any
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  USB applants. Is direct because there's a hell of a lot of losses in
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  transmission and distribution, and you're going to get losses across your inverter. So
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  I know there are plans, and I know there are trials going on where
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  they're looking at just rather than sending two thirty volt, I mean, look
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  at you get twelve volt of the offer of the solar panel, which is
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  which is great or one hundred and ten or whatever your system is rigged for.
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  So you get the DC power coming off, it goes into AC,
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  It then goes into fuse board, It then goes through the twin and earth
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  in your walls, goes to your socket and gets converted back to DCC nonsense,
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  which is a nonsense and it's not efficient and it's just stupid. However,
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  that nobody. I don't know if anyone who's got the risk appetite to
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  want to be able to rewire their house for DC yet, because in theory
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  you could have a double stack board DC and AC and you could end up
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  wiring a house where you've got four AC socket outlets and four DC socket outlets.
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  There is that potential, and if it's not that, it potentially could
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  be data points because data can take DC. So in theory, you can
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  do power over reef in it, so you'll have your AC ports and you're
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  safe. Two twin sockets four cat six ports do power over reef in it,
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  and you can take it directly off the roof via ERECTI fire a bit
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  of protection DC protection and the way you go, you've got DC directs,
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  you can plug a TV and you'll get the data around the power. So
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  I see that as the potential. I don't think it's potential. I think
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  it's on the verge of happening now. I think somebody's just got to take
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  a few brave steps and then tell everybody about it, and it'd be interesting
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  to see how the next few years pan out. Well, okay, well
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  that's let's come back to wrap up the show after some more music here on
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  Fixed Radio, the Builders station Fix Radio. We're out of time on today's
• 13:07
  electrical show. Our train has chugged into its station, and we've been talking
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  about solar solar PV as a specialism now, Paul, any final thoughts.
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  Yeah, I think one of the things I can see more changes coming down
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  the line is more consideration of the earthing systems involved with solar PV. I
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  know a lot of them are Some manufacturers will claim always trust but verify that
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  they don't need any specialist earthing configuration with their inverters. But I think with
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  the changes to the reggs now and when you look at coupling it DC coupling
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  with battery storage, you may find their requirements now to start switching your earthing
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  and that is referenced actually in the Battery Energy Storage Code of Practice. So
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  I think it's only a matter of time for it turns up in the solo
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  PV one as well when that gets updated. So I think we're heading towards
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  a future where we're going to have contactors in houses and they're going to be
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  switching the earth like on and off depending on voltage, current configuration type supply
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  network voltage. That's going to be a whole different mindset. And by the
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  way, I think i'm talking rubbish. It's in the battery energy Storage Code
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  of Practice. Now good luck finding these neutral earth linking relays and all the
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  other stuff that's required made. Yeah, because effectively you're heading towards the world
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  of prosumer. We've mentioned it. When you're producing your own energy and you're
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  consuming it, you are a prosumer. From where we were ten years ago
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  to where we are now to where we're going to be in five to ten
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  years is a whole different world. So if you started doing solar ten fifteen
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  years ago, what it is now and where it's going to be in five
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  ten years should be completely different from when you started. Principles are the same,
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  but different as far as these safety, application of technology, teck of
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  what's going in. Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating stuff. It'll be interesting
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  to see how it pans out over the next five ten years. I agree.
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  You can hear this show again as a podcast As a podcast, yeah,
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