Latest / 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast / 22 Panels Episode #211 - Reimagining Classics

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22 Panels Episode #211 - Reimagining Classics · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody! Welcome back to 22 Panels, the podcast where we…
• 0:08
  Phil: Explorer. What do we do.
• 0:09
  Tad Eggleston: and elevate the medium of comics across the interwebs!
• 0:16
  Tad Eggleston: is Phil.
• 0:18
  Phil: Good morning! Hey! How's it going, Ted?
• 0:21
  Tad Eggleston: Here is episode 211.
• 0:24
  Tad Eggleston: A little bit later, we'll… Talk about reinventing the classics. Is 67 a classic?
• 0:30
  Tad Eggleston: Will it be? I think it will be. I think 60… I think one day, we will drop 67 into comics, and people will laugh because they remember when.
• 0:41
  Phil: Hmm.
• 0:41
  Tad Eggleston: Anyway, news of the week!
• 0:44
  Phil: Is it… it's not happening anymore? Is it too late? Is it too late to make those jokes?
• 0:48
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, I think it's still happening. It's totally still happening.
• 0:51
  Phil: Okay, good.
• 0:52
  Tad Eggleston: I'm just saying, I think this one's got the staying power that it will become an actual classic. It won't be like the…
• 1:00
  Tad Eggleston: The fidget spinner.
• 1:02
  Phil: Well, people still spin fidgets, as far as I've heard, but .
• 1:06
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, people totally still…
• 1:08
  Tad Eggleston: spin fidgets, but I doubt that they'll, like, make an appearance in a comic and have people fondly remember them.
• 1:15
  Phil: A year's.
• 1:16
  Tad Eggleston: room now.
• 1:16
  Phil: I see. They, they will be more like pogs, precious fuel. Right, right. I mean, there are people who still love pogs, but… Exactly. I, I, I, I love of pogs.
• 1:28
  Tad Eggleston: Right. So, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:32
  Tad Eggleston: So anyway, some, some comics news,
• 1:37
  Tad Eggleston: We're gonna go with a good bad and a good bad, so…
• 1:45
  Tad Eggleston: the… the… the… the bad of this good-bad is there might, in fact, there likely, it seems, will not be an Anglem International Comics Festival in China.
• 2:01
  Tad Eggleston: 2026. It has not been officially canceled, but the
• 2:09
  Tad Eggleston: publishers, a significant number of the artists, and the public partners, including the mayor of Angleme.
• 2:19
  Phil: Wow.
• 2:19
  Tad Eggleston: Have all pulled out.
• 2:26
  Phil: You know, I… I… That's a damn shame, but, you know.
• 2:32
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's… it seems like it's a two-fold thing,
• 2:36
  Tad Eggleston: It seems like, you know, creators, and particularly female cartoonists, have never gotten
• 2:47
  Tad Eggleston: Like, the treatment that they, they really…
• 2:51
  Tad Eggleston: you know, I mean, when I was looking through the list of demands, you know, one of them is…
• 3:01
  Tad Eggleston: And this is… this is, this just, like, blew… prizes awarded without any obligation to produce anything afterwards.
• 3:10
  Phil: Wow.
• 3:11
  Tad Eggleston: So, I mean, that essentially says to me that, like, previous prize winners were, like, EXPECTED.
• 3:18
  Tad Eggleston: to…
• 3:20
  Tad Eggleston: do something. So, like, looking, you know, the beat has, has their listed demands, and the big ones are, are, like, at this point, they want
• 3:35
  Tad Eggleston: the two heads, you know, but both of the… Yeah. The… the…
• 3:41
  Tad Eggleston: 9E Art and… and of the Anglem…
• 3:47
  Tad Eggleston: I forget what the name of it is, but the organization that oversees, I think it's FIBD,
• 3:57
  Tad Eggleston: to resign.
• 3:58
  Tad Eggleston: They want resignation of more problematic
• 4:02
  Tad Eggleston: Employees at 90 art, and a transparency for 90 art plus accounts.
• 4:09
  Tad Eggleston: They want more recognition, they want better working conditions, they want, like, serious rules about sexual violence and harassment.
• 4:18
  Tad Eggleston: They want better accessibility for the public.
• 4:25
  Tad Eggleston: And then, like, more transparency of…
• 4:32
  Tad Eggleston: The festival's accounts and budgets, the exhibitions…
• 4:36
  Tad Eggleston: accounts and buzzes. I love this one. Sponsors who have a minimum of logic and decency.
• 4:44
  Phil: Yeah. And this is… this is one of those… I know we've mentioned this on… on the show a couple times, but,
• 4:51
  Phil: you know, it's one where I… I mean, I…
• 4:54
  Phil: fully admit I need to read up more thoroughly on the issue, but it is heartening seeing the community, you know, publishers and creators.
• 5:01
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and, like, I also, you know, it's such a different thing, because I love that, like, there are…
• 5:08
  Tad Eggleston: Cartoonist unions involved.
• 5:11
  Phil: Hell yeah Need more of those, really.
• 5:14
  Tad Eggleston: In France, many of the players have union support.
• 5:19
  Phil: Well, and that quick caveat, I know that unionizing in comics in America is a different… that different kind of wormhole that is easier said than done, but .
• 5:28
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, because our laws aren't nearly as, pro-union as… as, much of Europe's is. Yeah.
• 5:41
  Tad Eggleston: Among other things, we tend towards… Unions being mostly…
• 5:52
  Tad Eggleston: Mostly interacting with, like, individual companies rather than across industries?
• 6:00
  Tad Eggleston: You know, so your union might involve many unions that work at different comp… you know.
• 6:06
  Phil: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:06
  Tad Eggleston: the National Educators Association, but, like, each school has a wholly different contract.
• 6:15
  Tad Eggleston: There is no…
• 6:18
  Phil: So it's… yeah, so it's.
• 6:19
  Tad Eggleston: wide contract.
• 6:21
  Phil: Interesting that that, you know, school union situation kind of mirrors the,
• 6:28
  Phil: Collection of small businesses and comic stores spread across the country, and that, you know…
• 6:32
  Tad Eggleston: Totally is. I mean, like, any union situation, like, an auto workers union has separate union contracts, some… I mean, definitely with each manufacturer, but often with each plant.
• 6:46
  Tad Eggleston: You know, the, the, the, like, auto mechanics unions that, that, that a lot of…
• 6:52
  Tad Eggleston: a lot of, dealerships use, you know, when you see your rat up on the side of the road. Yep.
• 7:01
  Tad Eggleston: They generally have separate contracts with each… dealership.
• 7:07
  Tad Eggleston: You know, so, I mean, they share information, they can say, hey, over here they're doing this, blah blah blah, but there aren't…
• 7:16
  Tad Eggleston: Industry standards, and that's… that's not how it has to be.
• 7:21
  Phil: Right.
• 7:23
  Tad Eggleston: But we wanted to be tight, so we're gonna move out of union politics and into.
• 7:27
  Phil: Jesus.
• 7:28
  Tad Eggleston: distribution.
• 7:30
  Tad Eggleston: The bad news with distribution is, a friend of the podcast, Spike Trotman, shared via Blue Sky that, sounds like one of the major…
• 7:47
  Tad Eggleston: sub-distributors under Ingram to the library market has been in financial… Straits?
• 7:54
  Tad Eggleston: And Ingram sent out a letter saying that they'd done various things to minimize…
• 8:02
  Tad Eggleston: their overall liability, etc, and that Ingram will be taking on the first $100,000 worth of,
• 8:10
  Tad Eggleston: The losses, but that the rest will be passed on to publishers at a pro rata
• 8:17
  Tad Eggleston: basis. Now, it doesn't say what the biggest…
• 8:22
  Tad Eggleston: Or it doesn't say how much more than $100,000 it is.
• 8:27
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, I'm certain that, you know, if it's pro-rata, I'm certain that Scholastic is getting hit harder than…
• 8:36
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, because one of the things, and this has always been kind of problematic, is almost all libraries use the same distributor.
• 8:43
  Phil: Yeah.
• 8:44
  Tad Eggleston: And only one distributor. They don't really…
• 8:47
  Phil: Yeah, I do remember when I worked at the library, they said, if we can't get a book through Ingram, we basically can't get it.
• 8:52
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 8:53
  Tad Eggleston: So… I don't know all the politics of that, but, so, yeah, it,
• 9:06
  Tad Eggleston: Spike put out the letter she got, and certainly said, I'm a little bit dreading what my January statement of earnings is gonna be. So if…
• 9:19
  Tad Eggleston: If you've ever wanted one of our books, now would be a great time to go to ironcircus.com and order it direct.
• 9:26
  Tad Eggleston: So I will emphasize that, because Iron Circus has a lot of
• 9:31
  Tad Eggleston: Really great books. Available at IronCircus.com.
• 9:35
  Tad Eggleston: To order direct. Phil, what kind of week has it been? Are we in Bizarro World?
• 9:40
  Phil: I mean, I think it was opposite day on Friday, and nobody told me ahead of time, so, I mean…
• 9:47
  Tad Eggleston: like that.
• 9:48
  Phil: I…
• 9:49
  Tad Eggleston: Seriously, did you… did you watch any of the stuff from the Trump Mamdani? Have you ever seen him
• 9:57
  Tad Eggleston: Bawn over dictators, though!
• 9:59
  Phil: It was good as we were gone.
• 10:00
  Tad Eggleston: Mandami.
• 10:02
  Phil: The funniest… I mean… I saw… I saw his face, and I'm like, wow, that is… that is like a…
• 10:09
  Tad Eggleston: Zoran… Zoran… Had managed to artfully Avoid…
• 10:17
  Tad Eggleston: Saying any… like, he got asked the question about, you've called him a fascist, blah blah blah, and managed to spin it into…
• 10:25
  Phil: Well…
• 10:26
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, no, no, the first time.
• 10:28
  Phil: It's the first time.
• 10:28
  Tad Eggleston: I'm thinking of the follow-up.
• 10:29
  Phil: I am thinking of the follow-up. I only saw the follow-up, you're right, you're right.
• 10:33
  Tad Eggleston: And as he so well, often does, he artfully spun it into, we need to make New York more affordable, and we agree about wanting to make New York more affordable, blah blah blah, without really answering the question, but…
• 10:47
  Tad Eggleston: Because there were good journalists in the room, there was a follow-up question, and it was a good follow-up question, and like…
• 10:54
  Tad Eggleston: I figured Mom Donnie would have done fine, but instead, you know…
• 10:59
  Tad Eggleston: Trump treated it like when they asked Khashoggi about, like, murdering the guy. How dare you ask him? It's okay that he thinks I'm a fascist. Maybe I am a fascist!
• 11:12
  Phil: It's just easier if he says yes.
• 11:14
  Tad Eggleston: Holy shit! Yeah, it's like, oh my god!
• 11:18
  Phil: Yeah, I mean, I'm…
• 11:19
  Tad Eggleston: Comforting him, you're saying, it's okay. You don't have to take it back. It's fine. Please! We are buds!
• 11:25
  Phil: Yeah, like, holy shit, I mean, my…
• 11:28
  Tad Eggleston: He said, he said he'd be, he'd be open to living in New York again, with a socialist mayor.
• 11:35
  Tad Eggleston: New York? It's like…
• 11:36
  Phil: Didn't arrest him on site?
• 11:38
  Tad Eggleston: All of the talking points of the far right he repudiated in half an hour regarding Soran Hunt.
• 11:47
  Phil: Wow, yeah.
• 11:47
  Tad Eggleston: That was just…
• 11:49
  Phil: I mean…
• 11:49
  Tad Eggleston: And then…
• 11:50
  Phil: Yeah. Marjorie Taylor Greene has been weird enough.
• 11:54
  Phil: Yeah, well, so that's… in that…
• 11:56
  Tad Eggleston: She's actually grown both a conscience and a spine.
• 11:59
  Phil: Well…
• 12:01
  Tad Eggleston: I'm not saying I agree with her on much, but.
• 12:04
  Phil: No.
• 12:04
  Tad Eggleston: has a conscience and a spine lately. I don't think…
• 12:08
  Tad Eggleston: take that away from her. She still stands for a crap ton of things that I don't agree with.
• 12:15
  Phil: Yeah.
• 12:17
  Tad Eggleston: But, like… She has suddenly crashed into a world where facts matter to her.
• 12:25
  Phil: It's about damn time.
• 12:27
  Tad Eggleston: No, I… again, I am not, not trying to…
• 12:30
  Phil: No, I know you.
• 12:33
  Phil: Maybe you're not suddenly a fan of Marjorie Taylor Greene, but you are startled by her behavior.
• 12:40
  Tad Eggleston: But nothing startled me more than, like, her complete bluntness about why she's leaving Congress and not running again. She's like…
• 12:51
  Tad Eggleston: It's not that I don't think I could win, it's that even now, Congress isn't doing anything. I've written all of these bills, and they don't even get
• 13:03
  Tad Eggleston: Disgust, much less put to a vote.
• 13:08
  Tad Eggleston: you know, he's gonna drop $10 million on me in my district, and I'm gonna win anyway, but it's gonna be hard.
• 13:17
  Tad Eggleston: But the Republicans aren't gonna win, so we're gonna come back as the minority party.
• 13:26
  Tad Eggleston: And you know that they're gonna impeach him again, because they should impeach him again. So, if I win, my job is essentially gonna be to protect this horrible man from impeachment for the next 2 years. Sorry, no, I'm out.
• 13:44
  Tad Eggleston: And it's like…
• 13:45
  Phil: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Tad Eggleston: Oh my god!
• 13:48
  Tad Eggleston: Talk about saying all of the quiet parts out loud.
• 13:53
  Phil: I mean, I'm hoping… I'm hoping that as, you know, as we… my biggest takeaway from the Mamdani-Trump interaction is that I'm hoping it breaks the brains of Republicans everywhere between them
• 14:07
  Phil: You know, seeing, wow, you know, their leader is praising a socialist, and…
• 14:13
  Phil: again, like you said, the funniest… the funniest… when you mentioned Trump doesn't even fawn over dictators like that, the funniest post I think I saw was, you know, once Mohamdani left, JD angrily, you know, storms in and says, why don't you look at me like that? And then storms off, which would be pretty damn funny. But.
• 14:29
  Tad Eggleston: Funnier post with.
• 14:30
  Phil: Hmm.
• 14:31
  Tad Eggleston: Involving J.D. Vance is, I think it was The Onion that said J.D. Vance upset that Trump calls somebody else piggy.
• 14:39
  Phil: Oh, wow, wow.
• 14:42
  Phil: Oh, all kinds… a lot to unpack there, but no, I guess with… with green, I'm… I'm remaining cynical. I'm remaining cynical, because that's how often.
• 14:51
  Tad Eggleston: Well, there's every reason to remain cynical, but I mean, like, here's the thing.
• 14:58
  Tad Eggleston: I don't think she's dumb, but I don't think she's smart enough to play a game. I think if there's one truly positive thing that you can say about Marjorie Taylor Greene, it's that she has always been exactly what you see.
• 15:14
  Phil: Yeah, I think… I think, if anything, the… the quote-unquote game she's trying to play is…
• 15:20
  Phil: take her money and go home, you know? She's…
• 15:23
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 15:23
  Phil: She's leaving a few days after her pension kicks in, and has made millions.
• 15:28
  Tad Eggleston: And I don't.
• 15:29
  Phil: On insider trading.
• 15:31
  Phil: manufacturers. So, you know…
• 15:34
  Tad Eggleston: Welcome to Congress. Yes. I mean, A.
• 15:40
  Phil: Where insider trading is a perk, not a bug.
• 15:44
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, yes, but more importantly, like, that particular story isn't big enough that it's crossed my radar, and I'm a news junkie.
• 15:52
  Phil: Yeah.
• 15:53
  Phil: That was, that was.
• 15:55
  Tad Eggleston: So, be…
• 15:56
  Phil: Z on TikTok criticized her for that, so…
• 15:59
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, I'm certain that she's far from… like, again, I'm not…
• 16:11
  Tad Eggleston: I'm not… I'm not… you know, I even think Jamie Raskin was joking when he said that the Democratic Party was even big enough for Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• 16:22
  Tad Eggleston: I think it was more of a point of,
• 16:27
  Tad Eggleston: They're fucking fractured, so let's not push people away right now that agree with us on more things than they disagree with us on.
• 16:36
  Phil: Yeah, and when… admittedly, when you say… when you say push people away, you know.
• 16:43
  Phil: Yeah, I could see that. I mean, not necessarily…
• 16:45
  Tad Eggleston: Because, I mean, because here is a thing that is really true.
• 16:49
  Phil: Huh.
• 16:50
  Tad Eggleston: You know, and this is also why I, like.
• 16:55
  Tad Eggleston: Love governing and thinking about policy and whatnot, and hate politics.
• 17:01
  Tad Eggleston: Well, part of the reason I hate politics is Democrats are really fucking bad at politics.
• 17:06
  Phil: Yep.
• 17:06
  Tad Eggleston: We are on both the moral right side and generally the electoral right side of pretty much every issue, and yet we get trounced on a regular fucking basis.
• 17:21
  Tad Eggleston: So… like… I have… minimal… Patience…
• 17:34
  Tad Eggleston: For moralizing that doesn't look in the mirror first.
• 17:39
  Phil: Yep.
• 17:40
  Tad Eggleston: And doesn't involve lots of… Actual knowledge, rather than suspected knowledge.
• 17:49
  Tad Eggleston: You know what I mean?
• 17:51
  Phil: Yeah.
• 17:52
  Tad Eggleston: Just because, like, if nothing else, it's not fucking working for us.
• 18:00
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, and I think, you know… I mean, I actually have some moral issues with it, too.
• 18:05
  Phil: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:06
  Tad Eggleston: I've given up on trying to convince people that there is a moral high ground in not being too quick to judge, right?
• 18:14
  Tad Eggleston: Ew.
• 18:16
  Tad Eggleston: But it's not working for us.
• 18:19
  Phil: Yeah, I think… and I think… on the… the too-quick-to-judge, the one… the one thing I have to say about that is that, like, I mean…
• 18:30
  Phil: I'm getting a lot of thoughts that would lead to a lot of not-tight episode places, but.
• 18:37
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's something that I'm certain we'll be talking about, like…
• 18:43
  Tad Eggleston: I'm not… I mean, and this is just… this is me. This is not me saying other people should be like that, though…
• 18:49
  Tad Eggleston: God, I… it would make my life easier.
• 18:53
  Phil: Yeah.
• 18:53
  Tad Eggleston: I really try to avoid judgment, period.
• 18:59
  Phil: Yeah?
• 19:00
  Phil: Same. I, I, I do too. I know where you're coming from.
• 19:04
  Tad Eggleston: it, you know, no matter how reprehensible something is, I'll sit there, like, like…
• 19:10
  Tad Eggleston: Within reason. Yeah, sure. Like, once there's evidence of, like, you hurting, hurting other people with more than words.
• 19:19
  Tad Eggleston: That becomes a different thing.
• 19:21
  Tad Eggleston: And even some words.
• 19:24
  Tad Eggleston: Are hard to walk back from.
• 19:26
  Tad Eggleston: But…
• 19:32
  Tad Eggleston: I'm a big believer in, like.
• 19:35
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, if that works for you, but it's not for me.
• 19:40
  Tad Eggleston: I don't think I have to decide that you're a terrible person because we don't agree on something.
• 19:46
  Tad Eggleston: I think that there's great danger in doing so.
• 19:51
  Tad Eggleston: for me.
• 19:53
  Phil: Yeah, I can see that. A lot of the world disagrees with me. Well, and I think… I think that's because…
• 19:59
  Phil: For… for a lot of people.
• 20:01
  Phil: I think it's because they're, they're people who, the stakes are higher, You know?
• 20:08
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's… certainly, there's some level of truth to that.
• 20:13
  Tad Eggleston: But, like, the people who disagree with me the most have lower stakes than I do.
• 20:22
  Phil: Interesting.
• 20:27
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, historically, In terms of my personal experience.
• 20:38
  Tad Eggleston: Outrage comes way more from the privileged classes, often in the name of the.
• 20:45
  Phil: Unprivileged. I can see that, I can see that. That's interesting.
• 20:49
  Tad Eggleston: then it comes from the people who have higher stakes, because you know what? When they have higher stakes, what matters to them is getting the things they need.
• 20:57
  Phil: Right.
• 20:58
  Tad Eggleston: They don't care whether you said something horrible about them yesterday. If today, you have seen the light.
• 21:06
  Tad Eggleston: And they're putting food on the table.
• 21:08
  Tad Eggleston: This was one of… this was one of the things that, like, blew my mind at the level of outrage.
• 21:16
  Tad Eggleston: when the… the Democrats Caved to reopen the government right before people stopped getting their food assistance.
• 21:30
  Tad Eggleston: They're like, oh, well, we knew it would be hard, and it's like, yeah, but, motherfucker, it's not gonna be hard for you!
• 21:37
  Phil: Yeah.
• 21:38
  Tad Eggleston: I'm not on Snap!
• 21:40
  Phil: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Phil: It is… it is a lot easier to… to say, no, no, no, keep the shutdown going when you're at no risk.
• 21:49
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 21:50
  Tad Eggleston: And it's a lot easier to be completely outraged and…
• 21:56
  Tad Eggleston: say that I don't believe in a change of heart, or, oh, they're just trying to be manipulative, or…
• 22:03
  Tad Eggleston: or even, well, I'm certain there's somebody else qualified that… that…
• 22:08
  Tad Eggleston: Isn't getting space, because they're still getting space.
• 22:13
  Phil: Right.
• 22:14
  Tad Eggleston: When… You're not actually the one affected.
• 22:24
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, there's nothing I hate more than when I… when I see, like, the… the…
• 22:30
  Tad Eggleston: the person from the oppressed class that's, like, labeled as a sellout because…
• 22:36
  Tad Eggleston: they are friendly with… I mean…
• 22:43
  Tad Eggleston: I guess, before we move on, because we need to…
• 22:47
  Tad Eggleston: Like, Kanye West and Nicki Minaj used to be sane.
• 22:51
  Phil: Yeah.
• 22:53
  Tad Eggleston: And neither one of them actually came from… good places.
• 23:01
  Phil: Yeah, interesting, yeah.
• 23:02
  Tad Eggleston: Nikki in particular.
• 23:05
  Tad Eggleston: you know, Kanye's got a little bit more of a suburban…
• 23:09
  Phil: Okay.
• 23:10
  Phil: I, I do know. As soon as you said it.
• 23:12
  Tad Eggleston: But… But, when you create this world.
• 23:16
  Tad Eggleston: Where, oh, I'm not allowed to, be friends with this person because…
• 23:25
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. And again, I'm not saying that they floated…
• 23:28
  Tad Eggleston: I'm not saying specific things, but… but, like, I wonder how much… of…
• 23:36
  Tad Eggleston: When we see people that it doesn't make sense
• 23:39
  Tad Eggleston: That they have the positions that they have.
• 23:43
  Tad Eggleston: It has to do with… I mean, like, there was a story this week, like, an old Obama speechwriter.
• 23:52
  Phil: Oh, I heard about that one too, yeah. Yeah, that was,
• 23:56
  Phil: I, I, if we're gonna… if we're gonna do a quick pivot.
• 24:00
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but, but, like, I won't get deep, deep into it, but, like.
• 24:05
  Tad Eggleston: Some of the things she said about, holocaust… Education.
• 24:12
  Phil: Yeah.
• 24:12
  Tad Eggleston: And, and, and how…
• 24:14
  Phil: people taking the wrong lesson from Holocaust education.
• 24:17
  Tad Eggleston: Well, taking too universal of a lesson, essentially.
• 24:21
  Phil: Yeah.
• 24:21
  Tad Eggleston: Like, by her own words, she talks about how, like.
• 24:28
  Tad Eggleston: Jewish kids today look at me as a monster when I'm trying to…
• 24:34
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, that tells me that she's almost there, which makes me wonder if, like…
• 24:41
  Tad Eggleston: rather than immediately going to the mattresses as, this is 100% wrong, this is 100% right, there had been more of, look, I understand you're hurting, I understand that you have family, or friends of family, or whatnot that were directly ex…
• 25:00
  Tad Eggleston: affected on October 7th, but we need to step back and look at this.
• 25:04
  Phil: Right.
• 25:05
  Phil: Yeah, we need to see that this is a one-sided conflict that is… disproportionately.
• 25:12
  Tad Eggleston: But see, even going straight there isn't gonna get them to step back and look at it.
• 25:17
  Phil: You're right, that's… that's a… that's a… you're… you're absolutely right. I… I don't… I don't know how to talk to people who disagree with me in a way that they will listen to me.
• 25:25
  Tad Eggleston: You know…
• 25:26
  Phil: Oh, I'm still…
• 25:27
  Tad Eggleston: That just means that, that, that, like… Anytime somebody…
• 25:35
  Tad Eggleston: is emotional about something, and you can't show them empathy, you're pushing them Away from the entire movement.
• 25:44
  Phil: Yeah, I think… I think…
• 25:46
  Tad Eggleston: And I don't mean on an individual level, but we see this sometimes on…
• 25:51
  Tad Eggleston: the grand level in Democratic politics.
• 25:54
  Phil: And I think that… I think that, like, it's… there's… there's a certain amount of it that it takes two to tango, where…
• 26:03
  Phil: on one hand, I do think that, yes, we can come in too emotionally on these issues, and that ends up pushing people away, but I also think that people are closing themselves off, you know?
• 26:13
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely, but… but, I mean, I guess what I'm saying is… I mean, you brought up…
• 26:24
  Tad Eggleston: the people who it affects most directly, and I guess what I'm saying is…
• 26:28
  Phil: Too often.
• 26:30
  Tad Eggleston: And I can't even speak to the right, because the right.
• 26:33
  Phil: Right.
• 26:34
  Tad Eggleston: The right… the right champion's not having empathy at all.
• 26:39
  Phil: Yeah, that's… I can't get with that at all.
• 26:43
  Tad Eggleston: Which doesn't mean that all of them don't, but… but I don't know how to speak about them at all.
• 26:49
  Tad Eggleston: But on the left, I think that sometimes, like…
• 26:57
  Tad Eggleston: we're unable… to… Allow for people's personal understandable emotions.
• 27:11
  Tad Eggleston: To make it hard for them to… to…
• 27:15
  Tad Eggleston: Come to what feels more universally right to us, because we're farther away.
• 27:22
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, perfect example going way, way, way back, you know, Michael Dukakis got the question in
• 27:31
  Tad Eggleston: one of his debates with George Bush about, you know, if his wife was raped and murdered, would he.
• 27:36
  Phil: What?
• 27:36
  Tad Eggleston: the… want the man who did it to be executed, you know, because he was an anti-death penalty.
• 27:45
  Phil: And he completely fumbled over the answer.
• 27:49
  Tad Eggleston: You know, it took the West Wing, like, 30 years after to, like, really express the proper answer. The proper answer is, of course I do!
• 28:00
  Phil: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Tad Eggleston: Of course I do!
• 28:02
  Phil: Yeah, my answer would have been…
• 28:04
  Tad Eggleston: Which is why it's better that I don't have the choice.
• 28:07
  Phil: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:10
  Phil: Yeah, I recognize that while that would be what I want.
• 28:14
  Tad Eggleston: loved ones! It's not, it's not… You're gonna be the one making that decision.
• 28:19
  Phil: It's not the correct moral decision. It might be what I want, but it's not the correct moral decision. But, but, but, like…
• 28:27
  Tad Eggleston: That's the thing, when you're talking to… a lot of… Jewish people about Israel.
• 28:41
  Tad Eggleston: And you don't understand that they're…
• 28:45
  Tad Eggleston: Emotions make it hard for them to see.
• 28:50
  Phil: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Tad Eggleston: other things, then you're not gonna…
• 28:54
  Tad Eggleston: Find any way to reach them.
• 28:59
  Phil: Yeah… Yeah, I mean…
• 29:03
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you don't have to, like, say what it is, but think of… think of whatever thing is, like, the most emotionally charged thing in… for me, it's probably the way we treat and handle autism, but the thing most
• 29:22
  Tad Eggleston: That, like, you can't imagine how you would handle it if it… Whatever.
• 29:30
  Phil: Yeah.
• 29:32
  Tad Eggleston: And now, try to imagine a situation where, like, your feelings there clouded your judgment.
• 29:41
  Tad Eggleston: Now, is anybody gonna… Is anybody gonna, like, convince you by just saying that you're wrong?
• 29:51
  Phil: No, it, it, unfortunately, unfortunately, no. It… it doesn't, it doesn't get through to me. It doesn't get through to most people, I don't think.
• 30:00
  Tad Eggleston: It's why now that, like… Now that they actually took it away.
• 30:08
  Tad Eggleston: Making the, the, the holistic,
• 30:15
  Tad Eggleston: like, abortion has nothing to do with the fetus. It's a women's healthcare, women's rights issue, blah blah blah, is necessary. But one of the reasons that, for years, it was more, look, abortion's a horrible thing, which… abortion isn't a good or a bad thing, it's a thing.
• 30:35
  Phil: It's a process, yeah.
• 30:36
  Tad Eggleston: Right. But abortion is a horrible thing that I hope that there's none of, but it's not…
• 30:44
  Tad Eggleston: something that we can take away, was the political, because the people who care about it care about it a lot. And if you don't acknowledge that they have a right to care about it a lot…
• 30:56
  Phil: Yeah, and I think that… I think that that is a great example of a situation where people's emotions on the subject cloud their judgment because it's inherently complicated. I, I, you know, the fact that
• 31:09
  Phil: there's anyone in the world who thinks that there are people who are pro-abortion in the sense of… that's why it's inherently, framed as pro-choice, because nobody… nobody wants to have an abortion. It's something that you do as a resort when… when…
• 31:25
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, here, like, that's even the political argument.
• 31:29
  Phil: Yes, exactly.
• 31:30
  Tad Eggleston: I know a lot of feminists will say.
• 31:32
  Phil: Huh.
• 31:34
  Tad Eggleston: Doesn't matter if somebody wants to have an abortion.
• 31:36
  Phil: Yeah.
• 31:36
  Tad Eggleston: There might be people who want to have an abortion. I certainly know people who would certainly rather have an abortion than have a child.
• 31:42
  Phil: Right, right.
• 31:43
  Tad Eggleston: I'm willing to have no sex to avoid abortions.
• 31:45
  Phil: That too, yes, all of those things, all of those things.
• 31:49
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 31:50
  Phil: I guess… I guess what I mean is that I don't.
• 31:51
  Tad Eggleston: So it's not this automatic, like, all women regret their abortions.
• 31:57
  Phil: Yeah, no, it's more of… They wish they'd been in a position where they could have kept the child. Yes, or had more access to contraception, all those things, but like, I guess what I put at, no one is getting abortions recreationally.
• 32:11
  Tad Eggleston: Yes!
• 32:12
  Phil: That's what I was trying.
• 32:14
  Tad Eggleston: Yes!
• 32:14
  Phil: It's not something people do for fun, it's something people do because they feel they have to, to save their lives, or the lives of their loved ones, all of those things.
• 32:25
  Phil: Yeah.
• 32:25
  Tad Eggleston: And, and, and save their life could, could, and is allowed to be, save their quality of life.
• 32:31
  Phil: Yes, absolutely.
• 32:33
  Tad Eggleston: It doesn't have to be a physically, like, we're gonna die. It could be, like…
• 32:37
  Tad Eggleston: I want to finish college, or I like my job, or I like traveling, or whatever.
• 32:41
  Phil: Any number, any number.
• 32:42
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, again, I wouldn't make those decisions, but I don't have to, and that's another part of the point, you know, because they'll say, oh, well, the sex is recreational, and it's like, yes, but that
• 32:52
  Tad Eggleston: to tango.
• 32:54
  Phil: Exactly. Well, yeah, and also…
• 32:56
  Tad Eggleston: Man has no repercussions.
• 32:58
  Phil: No, exactly. It's… and so that's where it's, like, the fact that… one of the most important things to me is the fact that this is a decision that does not affect directly men, and yet mostly men are making the decision.
• 33:10
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 33:10
  Phil: And that's just… that's fucked up.
• 33:12
  Tad Eggleston: But we have brand new to order comics, so let's finally get into that, because we're hoping to actually wrap up the rest of this in the next half hour, which we might pull off.
• 33:20
  Phil: I just want to say, Pope Rave, that is all.
• 33:24
  Phil: The Pope had a rave.
• 33:26
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay. I mean, the Pope is pretty cool.
• 33:29
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you gotta love that the first American pope is actually ridiculously liberal.
• 33:34
  Phil: From Chicago! He's your Pope!
• 33:37
  Tad Eggleston: That's… Is Ted okay?
• 33:42
  Tad Eggleston: new series this month from Dave Chisholm at Mad Cave Comics. This is a story about Ted and Sarah. Ted, isolated and paranoid, works for a megacorporation owned by the world's only trillionaire.
• 33:58
  Tad Eggleston: We're getting really, real already. He suffers from night terrors, obsessively draws the same mysterious figures again and again, all while listening to one track of music on repeat. Oh, and the only…
• 34:11
  Tad Eggleston: person he ever talks to is a stray cat. And I hope people heard my air quotes.
• 34:17
  Phil: Man after my own part.
• 34:19
  Tad Eggleston: His humanity is hanging by a thread.
• 34:23
  Tad Eggleston: Sarah is a new arrival to the city, fighting her own demons, and her job is to remotely spy on Ted to ensure he doesn't hurt anyone or himself.
• 34:33
  Tad Eggleston: When Ted's mental state begins to crack, Sarah compassionately intervenes to help, and things go catastrophically wrong.
• 34:42
  Tad Eggleston: Is Ted okay?
• 34:44
  Tad Eggleston: mashes up the paranoid existentialism of Severance with the cosmic sci-fi of Akira while exploring what happens when the act of help goes horribly wrong. From Dave Chisholm, who's one of my favorite artists working today, Mad Cave Comics, the final order cutoff on this book is February 2nd.
• 35:04
  Tad Eggleston: 2026, and it will be in stores.
• 35:07
  Tad Eggleston: on February 25th.
• 35:10
  Phil: Sounds incredible.
• 35:12
  Tad Eggleston: I love Dave Chisholm.
• 35:15
  Phil: Alright, next up we have Lenore, Curse of the Bibi Yaga.
• 35:20
  Phil: From Roman Dirge, writer and artist Roman Dirge. One day in the deep, dark forest, whilst out on a lovely walk, looking from some green… looking
• 35:31
  Phil: It says, from some green grass sea, Lenore and Ragamuffin find their chum Pootie at the bottom of a well. Turns out he's been beaten up and thrown down there by a real dick of a bee. Things take a turn for the worse when the bee thug comes back and proceeds to beat the living crap out of them all, leading to a veritable fight to the death.
• 35:49
  Phil: Then the bee's Graham Gram, the legendary BB Yaga, turns up, and all hell breaks loose. Mondays, am I right? That's gonna be in stores, February 18th. Final order cut off January 26th from Titan. This is Titan, right?
• 36:03
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't comics, yeah.
• 36:04
  Phil: Yeah.
• 36:06
  Tad Eggleston: Oh.
• 36:07
  Tad Eggleston: I've been waiting to talk about this for sooo long. This started, actually, as a pandemic,
• 36:18
  Tad Eggleston: the Patreon comic, because… because that Texas Blood got delayed.
• 36:25
  Tad Eggleston: well, the launch of that Texas Blood got delayed, not like it was already established and whatnot. And Chris and Jacob pivoted to find some way to, you know, eat.
• 36:41
  Tad Eggleston: the peril
• 36:43
  Tad Eggleston: Of the Brutal Dark, an Ezra Kane Mystery from Chris Condon and Jacob Phillips, New York City, 1941.
• 36:51
  Tad Eggleston: Ezra Kane is a private investigator with a reputation for taking it on the chin, if it means solving a case. But it's his former life as an archaeology student that makes him the only man to track down an artifact that's gone missing from the Museum of Natural History.
• 37:07
  Tad Eggleston: An ancient evil said to hold the power of the Greek god Hephaestus.
• 37:12
  Phil: Anvil.
• 37:15
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, what?
• 37:16
  Phil: An ancient anvil said to hold the power of the Greek god Hephaestus.
• 37:20
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, oh, oh, ancient… yeah, okay.
• 37:22
  Tad Eggleston: Thank you.
• 37:23
  Phil: Sorry.
• 37:24
  Tad Eggleston: If someone could harness that power.
• 37:27
  Tad Eggleston: they could bend nations to their will. Science fiction quickly becomes Kane's reality when a shadowy sect calling themselves the Brutal Dark appears in the city, wielding resources that defy human logic. Now, Ezra is the only thing that stands between them and their plot to overthrow America.
• 37:47
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 37:49
  Phil: That sounds great. Honestly, it… it looks like, I mean, the fact that it's… that's Jacob Phillips, it looks like criminal. It already looks like criminal.
• 37:58
  Tad Eggleston: Chris Condon and Jacob Phillips, so… so that Texas Blood, Enfield Massacre.
• 38:03
  Tad Eggleston: like, taking a private eye and turning him into Indiana Jones, I, I, like, I cannot.
• 38:11
  Phil: I cannot wait. And we'll probably be texting Chris today to say, when do I get to read this?
• 38:16
  Tad Eggleston: Anyway, final order cutoff is February 2nd. It will be in stores on February 25th from DC and the relaunched Vertigo line.
• 38:33
  Phil: Alright, next up we have The Thing on the Doorstep from Simon Bricks and Willie Roberts.
• 38:41
  Tad Eggleston: That's Berks.
• 38:42
  Phil: Burks. Oh, yep, there we go. Simon Burks. Daniel Upton and Edward Derby have been best friends almost their entire lives, right up to the point Daniel shoots Edward dead in the Arkham Sanatorium.
• 38:55
  Phil: A crime Daniel swears he didn't commit, despite all the evidence. What happened on that fateful day in Arkham? What is the truth behind this seemingly mindless act of violence?
• 39:05
  Phil: Witness the beginning of this doomed relationship and Edward's slow descent into a horrifying world beyond his control.
• 39:12
  Phil: That's gonna be in stores February 11th, final word cutoff January 19th over at Image Comics. Yeah, that, that looks, quite creepy.
• 39:23
  Tad Eggleston: Alright, let's talk some… Original graphic novels.
• 39:28
  Phil: Alright, and first up is College Tribe from Olivia Cortero-Briggs and Roberta Ingranada?
• 39:37
  Phil: What if you could do it all over again? A desperately single 40-something attends her college reunion to win back the love of her life with disastrous results. But, through a magical twist of fate, she finds herself in her early college years once more, with a chance to fix it all.
• 39:53
  Phil: It's gonna be in stores February 18th, with a final alert cough, January 26th, from Maverick Medgave.
• 40:08
  Tad Eggleston: Speaking of Sean Phillips and Criminal…
• 40:12
  Tad Eggleston: Haha! Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips are back!
• 40:18
  Tad Eggleston: Featuring the legendary Ricky Lawless and the crazy tale of how he and Mallory fell in love in the midst of a crime spree.
• 40:26
  Tad Eggleston: Five Gears in Reverse, a criminal book, and one of the wildest, most action-packed books that Brubaker and Phillips have ever done, we delve deep into the life of one of criminal's most complex and tragic characters, Ricky Lawless, as he tries to pay off a deep debt to a mobster. Well.
• 40:44
  Tad Eggleston: Things just keep going from bad to worse.
• 40:48
  Tad Eggleston: This is…
• 40:49
  Tad Eggleston: From Image Comics, of course. In stores on May 20th, with an early final order cutoff of January 5th. Now, on one side, your stores are gonna have this. It'll be in print, but on the other side, let them know now that you want it, because it'll make their lives easier.
• 41:13
  Phil: Alright, next up we have Galaxy as the World Falls Down, from Jadzia Axelrod and Ry Hickman.
• 41:20
  Phil: After this summer, metropolis will never be the same. Taylor Barzily is finally living as her authentic self, a purple alien space princess with blue hair and superpowers. With a loving girlfriend, Kat, and an adorable talking corgi that doubles as a bodyguard, Taylor should feel more at home on Earth than ever. So why doesn't she?
• 41:40
  Phil: As Kat plans for life after high school by visiting colleges and metropolis, Taylor tags along aimlessly. Between honing her powers, getting her GED, and protecting Nianal from her evil aunt. Taylor's been super busy, but she still isn't sure she can claim her identity as the superhero galaxy.
• 41:58
  Phil: When the vain, alien race that destroyed her home planet finally arrive on Earth in search of Taylor, her biggest fear becomes reality. If even Superman can't handle this threat, what chance does she have to save the love of her life, her best friend, and the entire world? Will she cast aside her doubts in time to become the hero she's always…
• 42:16
  Phil: She was always destined to be. The writer of Galaxy the Pretty Star and the artist of Bad Dream, A Dreamer Story, team up on the sequel with more romance, more action, and more queer joy. Final order cutoff of February 2nd in stores, May 5th, from DC Comics.
• 42:37
  Tad Eggleston: This just looks cool.
• 42:39
  Phil: That does look pretty damn cool.
• 42:40
  Tad Eggleston: Unemployed Killer Support Group.
• 42:44
  Tad Eggleston: From writer-artist Rio, a bold, bloody, and brilliantly offbeat ride through the lives of society's most dangerous burnouts. Welcome to the group. Check your conscience at the door. Locker Lloyd.
• 42:59
  Tad Eggleston: A deadly sniper lost his vision, and his job on a mission gone wrong. Now, he's joined by an unlikely circle of former contract killers, each grappling with their own personal collapse. Among them, Gloria Mays, a meticulous assassin whose career imploded after catching her husband cheating and killing the mistress in a jealous rage. Jerry Cole, a justice-obsessed lawyer.
• 43:23
  Tad Eggleston: turned bloodthirsty executioner and Jordy Joe, a delusional con man who's never actually killed anyone.
• 43:30
  Phil: Wow.
• 43:31
  Tad Eggleston: From Titan Comics, in stores February 4th. Final order cutoff is January 12th. I cannot wait to read this book.
• 43:39
  Phil: Yeah, that sounds pretty, pretty awesome.
• 43:45
  Tad Eggleston: the… the… the… my collection of the week is… is similarly… looks pretty fucking cool, and I can't wait for The Damnation of Charlie Wormwood from Christina Blanche.
• 43:59
  Tad Eggleston: Chris Carr and Chi?
• 44:02
  Tad Eggleston: Collected here for the first time ever, all 64 chapters of the critically acclaimed comic. Many chapters never before seen until this omnibus. How far will a man go to save his son? Charlie Wormwood's normal life is about to begin a wild, uncontrollable spiral.
• 44:19
  Tad Eggleston: With his son deathly ill in the hospital and unpaid bills piling up, he begins treading a dangerous path to make things right. Teaching in prison gives him many…
• 44:29
  Tad Eggleston: Opportunities…
• 44:30
  Phil: See how I, pronounce the air quotes again?
• 44:34
  Tad Eggleston: But problem… but what problems will he create as he walks into the Prison of Darkness to save his family? The damnation of Charlie Wormwood?
• 44:44
  Tad Eggleston: Written by Christina Blanch and Chris Carr, illustrated by Chi, lettered by Troy Piteri and Joshua Werner, and edited by Mark Waid and Joshua Werner.
• 44:57
  Phil: Warner over?
• 44:59
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I think that's just Werner.
• 45:02
  Tad Eggleston: with the design for print by Werner, and a cover by Francesco Francavilla, and this is coming from Hermes Press, which has a number of interesting things coming out.
• 45:11
  Tad Eggleston: this month.
• 45:13
  Tad Eggleston: As they kind of dance into the scene.
• 45:21
  Phil: Alrighty, and then there's A Star Called the Sun, a collection of short science fiction stories from writer-artist Simon Roy.
• 45:30
  Phil: Robotic clergy, post-human hive men, immortal cyborgs, and ancient alien races all play a part in this collection of sci-fi adventure tales set in the universe of Habitat and Grizz Grobus.
• 45:43
  Phil: It's gonna be in stores February 11th, final order cutoff, January 5th. Simon Roy's a badass, all of his crunchy, squishy, alien art is fantastic. I'm gonna love reading this.
• 45:56
  Tad Eggleston: from Image Comics.
• 45:58
  Phil: From Image Comics, indeed, how could I forget?
• 46:00
  Tad Eggleston: Also, I should point out, Simon Roy is one of the ones that uses, crown Studios?
• 46:06
  Tad Eggleston: Fullment of Publishing, so he will likely be one of the ones, having stuff.
• 46:12
  Tad Eggleston: Having stuff, distributed.
• 46:14
  Phil: Oh, very cool.
• 46:15
  Tad Eggleston: is M.
• 46:16
  Phil: Very angry.
• 46:17
  Tad Eggleston: I just suddenly remembered having read his name.
• 46:22
  Phil: There we go.
• 46:23
  Tad Eggleston: Recently.
• 46:24
  Phil: Yeah. As I read the article to get ready for the…
• 46:26
  Tad Eggleston: the podcast this morning. There we go. Yeah.
• 46:30
  Phil: It's like we planned it, but we didn't.
• 46:31
  Tad Eggleston: We didn't, no. No, no.
• 46:33
  Tad Eggleston: So we have a crap ton of really interesting and… diverse final order cutoffs.
• 46:43
  Tad Eggleston: Starting with, and this is all for final order cutoff, Monday, December 1, so you've got this week to let your comic shops know that you definitely want these books.
• 46:55
  Tad Eggleston: Or, I mean, if you do. Most people probably don't want all of these books, because it's a pretty diverse set. Amazing Spider-Man by Steve Ditko, the artist's Edition.
• 47:06
  Tad Eggleston: by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko from Image and Act 4 comics?
• 47:13
  Tad Eggleston: on… May… out on May 6th?
• 47:17
  Tad Eggleston: Cordo Maltese, Fable of Venice and Other Adventures by Hugo Pratt at Fana Graphics, out on January 14th.
• 47:27
  Tad Eggleston: I said May 6th for Amazing Spider-Man, right?
• 47:30
  Tad Eggleston: Or did I say January 14th, because I was already reading down.
• 47:33
  Phil: Might have.
• 47:35
  Tad Eggleston: We're gonna make it clear. May 6th, for Act 4.
• 47:38
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, whatever. The Digger No. 1 from T.S. Luther, Sam Goodland at Invader Comics, out on January 14th. The Collected Don't Forget Your Briefcase from Elliot Rahal and Philip Sevey, from Mad Cave, out on January 7th. Enigma Town from Alex DeLuca, Victoria
• 47:56
  Tad Eggleston: Carmina and Abrielle Tirzini, Tirzian, out from Red 5 on January 28th. Extraordinary Voyages from Denis Pierre Philippi.
• 48:06
  Tad Eggleston: and Silvio Camboni at Paper Cuts on January 14th. Hank Howard, Pizza Detective, the two Hollywoods. Number one, from Robert Venditti and David Lapham at Bad Idea on January 7th.
• 48:20
  Tad Eggleston: Hannah and the Hells vs. the Beatles from Sam Ashurst, Tony M. Clark at Floating World on February 11th.
• 48:27
  Tad Eggleston: Johnny Redd, A Couple of Heroes from Garth Ennis, Keith Burns at Rebellion on January 28th. Lavender Jack Volume 1 from Jen Manley, Lee.
• 48:37
  Tad Eggleston: And Dan Schottay at Dark Horse on March 3rd, The Legend Testers from Jordi Brene, and Graham Baker at Rebellion on January 14th, The Life and Death of Fritz the Cat.
• 48:50
  Tad Eggleston: by Robert Crum for Vanna Graphics on January 14th. Mary Shelley, er, by Alessandro DiVergilio?
• 48:58
  Tad Eggleston: and Manuela Santoni at Mad Cave on January 14th.
• 49:02
  Tad Eggleston: My Gun is the Jury and Other Stories by Jack Davis and Wally Wood at Fanographics on February 25th. One World Under Doom by Ryan North and R.B. Silva and Marvel on February 10th. Something beyond
• 49:18
  Tad Eggleston: Petracor No. 1 from Dakota Brown and David Lujan at Red 5 on January 14th. Tommy the Coward by Marco Sinceri.
• 49:29
  Tad Eggleston: and Roberto Lo Cielo at Paper Cuts on January 14th. And finally, Where Does the Rainbow End? Number one.
• 49:39
  Tad Eggleston: From Francesca Perillo, Stefano Carticelli, and Mad Cave.
• 49:44
  Tad Eggleston: through January 14th. I'm certain that Moore is crowdfunding than just Terry Moore's How to Draw 2026 edition that is available through
• 49:56
  Tad Eggleston: November 28th on Kickstarter, but I haven't checked in on them lately, so that's the only one we're gonna plug for today.
• 50:07
  Tad Eggleston: Anyway, 3 amazing books. This was a really good week, even though I didn't read nearly enough of the books that I
• 50:14
  Tad Eggleston: wanted to read this week. And I'm gonna… I'm gonna start by making a huge shout-out to…
• 50:25
  Tad Eggleston: High strangeness number 2.
• 50:27
  Phil: Because…
• 50:29
  Tad Eggleston: For the second time in my life, I was reading a comic, And flipping through pages…
• 50:38
  Tad Eggleston: And I hit a panel, and I went… That's my hometown.
• 50:45
  Phil: Wow!
• 50:47
  Tad Eggleston: And as I did the last time, I took a picture of the panel and texted it to my mother, and she immediately also recognized the panel as the town that she has moved back to and lives in, Galena, Illinois. So despite the fact that,
• 51:04
  Tad Eggleston: High Strangeness is, is set in Washington,
• 51:11
  Tad Eggleston: There are a couple panels that are very clean, clearly,
• 51:17
  Tad Eggleston: on the streets of Galena, Illinois, which made me…
• 51:21
  Tad Eggleston: just really happy. And I reached out to Noah Bailey and did… shared, like, both the photo of his panel and the screenshot.
• 51:32
  Tad Eggleston: of… of the street view of Galena at roughly the point where the…
• 51:39
  Tad Eggleston: Along with the first time it happened, which was Ramon K. Perez in Stillwater.
• 51:45
  Tad Eggleston: You used a shot, and Ramon, when I talked to him about it, didn't even know it was from Galena. He'd just gone through pictures of small towns until he found one that he liked the particular…
• 51:57
  Tad Eggleston: angle and whatnot, and he worked from that. So that was one of my questions for Noah, is, like, did you know what we were using as reference?
• 52:07
  Phil: Nope.
• 52:08
  Tad Eggleston: And hopefully he'll come on the podcast and talk about it, and we'll know. That comic was actually written by Zach Thompson, so, like, it has a 22 panels, tie. For that matter. Issue 1 was written by Chris Condon, and issue 3 will be written by Chris Cantwell, so, like, the series.
• 52:24
  Phil: And as I'm looking…
• 52:26
  Tad Eggleston: Series 22 panels tie.
• 52:28
  Phil: And I'm gonna pick up Book 4, because it's drawn by Chloe Stoskey, whose art I absolutely.
• 52:34
  Tad Eggleston: Who's writing?
• 52:35
  Phil: Writing, Cecil Castellucci, I believe?
• 52:37
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, so all 4 writers have been on 22 panels.
• 52:45
  Phil: Who'd have known we were such easy marks for high strangeness?
• 52:49
  Tad Eggleston: So, and maybe they can, like, it's from, Elijah Wood's, company, maybe they can.
• 52:55
  Phil: Get him…
• 52:56
  Tad Eggleston: Come join us.
• 52:57
  Phil: I mean… My wife would freak out if that ever happened.
• 53:02
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I might have to send out the email to all of the writers and go, hey, we need to talk about this series now.
• 53:10
  Phil: Here we go!
• 53:10
  Tad Eggleston: So it didn't quite make my amazing books just for that, but that was really just because, first of all.
• 53:18
  Tad Eggleston: hats.
• 53:20
  Tad Eggleston: off.
• 53:21
  Tad Eggleston: to Matt Kent and Ibrahim Mustafa for John LeCare's The Circus, Losing Control, number one.
• 53:29
  Tad Eggleston: O… My God, was it good.
• 53:33
  Tad Eggleston: I am a huge LeCary fan.
• 53:37
  Tad Eggleston: I love his work.
• 53:39
  Tad Eggleston: But…
• 53:43
  Tad Eggleston: as much as I knew that good comics could be made of it, because what makes this work so good is it's about the spycraft, it's about the thinking, it's about the puzzling, it's about the…
• 53:58
  Tad Eggleston: The waiting, and the, you know, the stuff.
• 54:03
  Tad Eggleston: so much of the world thinks of spies as, like, James Bond action.
• 54:09
  Tad Eggleston: So, I both knew…
• 54:12
  Tad Eggleston: that using that universe could make great comics. And frankly, the team of Kent and Mustafa are…
• 54:23
  Tad Eggleston: high on the list of people that I would look for to make those comics.
• 54:29
  Tad Eggleston: You know, just based on their own experiences and the stuff they've done.
• 54:36
  Tad Eggleston: And Dark Horse is generally pretty good with editorial control, that sort of thing, but I was still surprised at how well they captured the feel of this universe. In other words, like, just to try to explain it all, like…
• 54:55
  Tad Eggleston: you've got something that, like, I knew could be a comic. In fact, I think, in a lot of ways, just because it's so much harder to really express
• 55:05
  Tad Eggleston: like, one of the complaints about John LeCare novels is… is that, that, like.
• 55:12
  Tad Eggleston: there are times where, you know, like, say, George will solve a problem, but you don't really get to see him…
• 55:19
  Tad Eggleston: solve the problem in terms of what he pieced together. You get to see him…
• 55:25
  Tad Eggleston: solve the problem, in that there are great descriptions of him sitting in, like, his office, just going through papers, trying to…
• 55:33
  Tad Eggleston: But, like… I think… I think the…
• 55:41
  Tad Eggleston: comics are actually uniquely put together in a way where you don't have to actually be able to solve the mystery along with somebody to be able to really appreciate the energy that they put into solving the mystery, right? So, like…
• 55:56
  Tad Eggleston: I was excited when I saw this, while at the same time scared, just because so… you know…
• 56:05
  Tad Eggleston: most spy stuff is much more action-packed than Le Carre is.
• 56:11
  Phil: Yeah.
• 56:12
  Tad Eggleston: And just… Sh… Wow.
• 56:16
  Tad Eggleston: just…
• 56:17
  Tad Eggleston: they just… they nailed it. They nailed it, they nailed it, they nailed it. I can't wait for Issue 2.
• 56:22
  Tad Eggleston: And that's how they beat out Lazarus Fallen number 6.
• 56:28
  Tad Eggleston: by Greg Rucka and Michael Lark, which was… it's… yeah, it's typical, like, I… there's… there's so little more to say about Lazarus.
• 56:38
  Tad Eggleston: I'm certain I'll come up with stuff as they go, but…
• 56:42
  Phil: Oh, yeah.
• 56:43
  Tad Eggleston: And I am gonna call out, though, the guy in the chair, number 2.
• 56:47
  Tad Eggleston: Which is actually the last comic I read this week, and it was because I wanted to make certain I read it before I made my final decision, because the first issue had been so good, and in an equally packed week, so I hadn't, like, really called it out. Hannah Rose May is one of the most
• 57:05
  Tad Eggleston: underrated writers in comics right now.
• 57:09
  Tad Eggleston: and this book with Utkarsh Ambedkar and Guillermo Sana is another example of it. It's essentially, like,
• 57:23
  Tad Eggleston: the basic premise is you've got an organization that works with two… two-person teams that aren't supposed to ever meet each other, you know, for security purposes, where one of them is your, like, Jason Bourne type.
• 57:36
  Tad Eggleston: You know, the completely capable of being an utter badass.
• 57:41
  Tad Eggleston: And the other is the crazy tech-type voice in their ear.
• 57:47
  Tad Eggleston: They can find the information for them, sometimes be able to, like, pick… get into the… you know, and…
• 57:54
  Tad Eggleston: Supposedly, they're the good guys.
• 57:57
  Tad Eggleston: Running around saving the world, but
• 58:01
  Tad Eggleston: In the first issue, the… the… the… Action-type person was… Seemingly eliminated.
• 58:13
  Tad Eggleston: While working with a different handler than her normal one.
• 58:19
  Tad Eggleston: She was not, but we get the wonderful twist here that this private security company that works for the government, might not be as good as it was supposed to be, which I know is just shocking to you, Phil.
• 58:36
  Phil: But, what? What? You're saying.
• 58:38
  Tad Eggleston: The paramilitary groups have.
• 58:40
  Phil: Bad intentions? Who could have guessed?
• 58:43
  Tad Eggleston: game.
• 58:43
  Tad Eggleston: This is so, yeah.
• 58:48
  Tad Eggleston: Those were my top 3 of the week. In a good week.
• 58:52
  Phil: That's a packed week, alright.
• 58:54
  Tad Eggleston: So, take a walk, Phil.
• 58:56
  Phil: Alright, I too, adored Lazarus Fallen number 6. I read it this morning. It was also the last comic I read this week, and that it was the most recent one. And I actually do have one more thing to say about Lazarus Fallen that hasn't been said before.
• 59:10
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it was the first one that I read, so, like, I probably just forgot.
• 59:14
  Phil: Yeah, but but what I am gonna say, It's 6-7.
• 59:22
  Phil: On that note, I also picked up, it was out last week, but, my shop had, delivery delays, so I didn't get a chance to… I'm actually probably gonna read it, later today. Strange Tales number 2 from Jeremy Whitley and Bailey Underwood, doing a, fantasy-tinged romp through the Marvel Universe. This one looks like a fight between
• 59:44
  Phil: Spider-Gwen and the Green Goblin, which I am very excited for, because Underwood does incredible kinetic action.
• 59:52
  Phil: I also have an honorable mention for our great responsibility this week. Our great responsibility this week is, like, the reinvention of classics, and sort of modernizing old ideas, and I think I've mentioned this single issue of Uber Invasion number 7 by Kieran Gillian and Daniel Getty before, but it is my…
• 1:00:12
  Phil: single favorite issue about superspeed, and it is probably one of the most unique, modern looks at super speed that I have ever seen. And for that, I love it, but that's not… that's not ultimately what,
• 1:00:26
  Phil: what I put in there.
• 1:00:30
  Phil: And then, of course, lastly, I have finally ordered a copy to purchase of From How?
• 1:00:37
  Phil: So that is on our horizon. If, if you, if you too, hopefully in January, we'll be talking from hell with a very, very exciting guest. But yeah, that's on my horizons. That's,
• 1:00:48
  Phil: that's… it's entering… it's entering our… our world. And so for that matter, Tad, how… how's one… did you… did you… is this the second week of no One Piece?
• 1:00:59
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't, I didn't read it.
• 1:01:00
  Phil: I mean, you read so much, I can't even… I can't even fault you for it.
• 1:01:04
  Tad Eggleston: It didn't, didn't minute. Well, and, and…
• 1:01:07
  Phil: If anything, you're letting me catch up on something.
• 1:01:09
  Tad Eggleston: part of it has to do with, like, without having Tyler to race with, it…
• 1:01:14
  Phil: Oh.
• 1:01:14
  Tad Eggleston: There's not the same…
• 1:01:17
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:01:18
  Tad Eggleston: Urgency, urgency…
• 1:01:19
  Phil: That's fair.
• 1:01:20
  Phil: You know, I, I, I, yeah.
• 1:01:24
  Phil: I managed to finish the first volume, 9 chapters of Mob Psycho 100. It got… it got… I don't know if… I might be switching gears, I might stick… I'll probably try to… I'll try to give it at least one more volume, but it… there's a disembodied spirit that's kind of weirding me out right now.
• 1:01:40
  Phil: And, it's… it's still funny. It's still funny, there was some… a great action piece, but yeah, it's, it's getting a little funky. Getting a little funky, this mob psycho guy.
• 1:01:51
  Tad Eggleston: Well, no.
• 1:01:52
  Phil: You know?
• 1:01:52
  Tad Eggleston: It's one that I need to, need to hit at some point.
• 1:01:56
  Phil: Oh, yeah.
• 1:01:57
  Tad Eggleston: There's… there's so many, so many comics!
• 1:01:59
  Phil: There's too many comics! I never thought I'd say it, but I'm, you know, I'm glad we live in a world with too many good comics.
• 1:02:05
  Tad Eggleston: You… you probably didn't believe it before you…
• 1:02:08
  Phil: discovered 22 panels. Yeah, I mean, believe it or not, I, before crossing your paths, I had a decently wide range of interests, like, I, you know, I.
• 1:02:18
  Tad Eggleston: No, I totally believe it, because you wouldn't have loved us so much if you did.
• 1:02:21
  Phil: Exactly.
• 1:02:22
  Tad Eggleston: That's where I'm like.
• 1:02:23
  Phil: The, the fact that, that you guys, that you guys go as, as…
• 1:02:27
  Phil: broad and as deep as you do is exactly why I work with you.
• 1:02:31
  Tad Eggleston: No audience, because, like… One of the first things they teach you about, like, building a podcast audience is
• 1:02:38
  Tad Eggleston: Choose a thing and stick to it, and it's like, no.
• 1:02:40
  Phil: God, right?
• 1:02:42
  Phil: well, hey, we did choose a thing, and it's comics, you know? And so that's, that's what I.
• 1:02:48
  Tad Eggleston: All of them!
• 1:02:49
  Phil: All of them, all of them, exactly. You know what? And here's the thing, the fact that… the fact that you've… you've made connections with, like, fucking Dennis Kitchen, who, again, was involved in publishing from Hell, you know, it… is, like, that is… that's what makes comics so great to me.
• 1:03:06
  Tad Eggleston: Actually, I just realized, I've never asked Dennis if he's looked at the colored version.
• 1:03:11
  Phil: I wonder what he thinks of that. There we go!
• 1:03:13
  Tad Eggleston: And I don't remember, like, I think… because From Hell was originally part of a, anthology book.
• 1:03:21
  Phil: Maybe? I mean, that's the thing…
• 1:03:23
  Tad Eggleston: It was, I know, because I, I, I, like…
• 1:03:27
  Tad Eggleston: I may have From Hell in almost every version that it's ever come out.
• 1:03:32
  Phil: Huh.
• 1:03:33
  Tad Eggleston: I think I'm missing a couple of issues of, like, the original…
• 1:03:42
  Tad Eggleston: And of course, the Wikipedia is being rude.
• 1:03:45
  Phil: In public.
• 1:03:45
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it was originally serialized in Taboo. Oh.
• 1:03:50
  Phil: mythology, yeah.
• 1:03:51
  Tad Eggleston: comic, published by Steve Bissett.
• 1:03:54
  Phil: Okay.
• 1:03:55
  Tad Eggleston: After running in Taboo 2-7,
• 1:04:00
  Tad Eggleston: They moved the project to its own series first by Tundra, and then by Kitchen Sink.
• 1:04:06
  Phil: Oh, no, I was gonna say, did that…
• 1:04:07
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I have a complete kitchen sink set.
• 1:04:10
  Phil: Did that… did that time with, hold on, I'm…
• 1:04:13
  Phil: It did, it did time with, Moore and Bissett's falling out over 1963, that came out in 1993. That is interesting. That's very interesting.
• 1:04:25
  Tad Eggleston: And then…
• 1:04:31
  Tad Eggleston: Eddie Campbell Comics did the first trade, and then Top Shelf did the second trade.
• 1:04:37
  Tad Eggleston: And then the, the, the Colorized Master Edition started Being serialized in 2018.
• 1:04:46
  Phil: Oh, so that's even relatively recent that it was colorized. Okay, I didn't realize that.
• 1:04:52
  Phil: Very fascinating.
• 1:04:55
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, in some ways, it was a… it was a 30th anniversary.
• 1:04:59
  Phil: Oh, okay.
• 1:05:02
  Phil: that…
• 1:05:03
  Phil: that… honestly, that makes… that makes the subject of, what I chose for the great responsibility just a tiny bit… tiny bit funnier and more interesting, too.
• 1:05:12
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:05:13
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:05:14
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, I mean, I don't know my, my,
• 1:05:18
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know my Peter Cannon well enough. But anyway, reinventing the classics is… is… is what we chose, and it looks like we kinda… we kinda took different…
• 1:05:28
  Tad Eggleston: Different takes, a little bit.
• 1:05:32
  Tad Eggleston: Because… I,
• 1:05:41
  Tad Eggleston: I…
• 1:05:42
  Tad Eggleston: The two that I will talk most specifically are about are Batman Year One and Daredevil Man Without Fear.
• 1:05:50
  Phil: Though, to a certain extent, it's not really just Man Without Fear, it, like…
• 1:05:55
  Tad Eggleston: Miller, through flashbacks, through Electra, that sort of thing, did a lot to…
• 1:06:02
  Tad Eggleston: to kind of reinvent Daredevil's history.
• 1:06:07
  Phil: Oh, yeah.
• 1:06:07
  Tad Eggleston: In his main run.
• 1:06:13
  Tad Eggleston: And that's… That's what Year One and Man Without Fear have that's so…
• 1:06:20
  Tad Eggleston: incredible, and where Miller's Superman year one fell flat, you know, is an example that Miller doesn't always pull this off. Like, the better Superman example would be John Burns
• 1:06:35
  Tad Eggleston: Man of Steel.
• 1:06:40
  Tad Eggleston: Is where they take this character that you think you know.
• 1:06:46
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I don't think anybody didn't think that they knew who Batman and Daredevil were by the 80s.
• 1:06:54
  Tad Eggleston: And… flesh out… Their depth and humanity in ways that don't make The previous stuff…
• 1:07:08
  Tad Eggleston: Don't make the previous writings impossible?
• 1:07:13
  Tad Eggleston: But redefine the character… For essentially every writer that's gonna come after.
• 1:07:19
  Phil: Oh, yeah. I mean…
• 1:07:22
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, everybody talks about Dark Knight Returns bringing a grittiness, and I don't think that's actually what Miller brought the most.
• 1:07:30
  Tad Eggleston: to Batman. I think… I think the biggest thing that he brought
• 1:07:34
  Tad Eggleston: at least in terms of the old… I mean, certainly, it turned Batman comics gritty and more violent for a while.
• 1:07:41
  Tad Eggleston: In terms of… I mean, we're talking now 40 years later.
• 1:07:44
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:07:45
  Tad Eggleston: the immediate effects. We're talking about how the character was changed.
• 1:07:50
  Tad Eggleston: And I think he both…
• 1:07:55
  Tad Eggleston: In both Dark Knight Returns… well, in Dark Knight Returns, I think he hardened the code.
• 1:08:02
  Tad Eggleston: you know, the fact that Joker had to kill himself…
• 1:08:05
  Phil: Which is bad.
• 1:08:05
  Tad Eggleston: Batman wasn't gonna do it.
• 1:08:07
  Tad Eggleston: He, like, absolutely hardened Batman has a code.
• 1:08:14
  Phil: Well, didn't… didn't he kill Joker in Dark Knight Returns?
• 1:08:18
  Tad Eggleston: No. He has the Joker.
• 1:08:21
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you're allowed to think either way, but the way I've always read it…
• 1:08:26
  Tad Eggleston: Is he's holding the Joker.
• 1:08:28
  Phil: Huh.
• 1:08:29
  Tad Eggleston: Who has a somewhat broken neck.
• 1:08:31
  Phil: Huh.
• 1:08:34
  Tad Eggleston: And he doesn't have it in him to kill the Joker, but the Joker has it in him.
• 1:08:40
  Tad Eggleston: To do that last jerk of the head to kill.
• 1:08:44
  Phil: Oops.
• 1:08:44
  Tad Eggleston: self.
• 1:08:45
  Phil: Interesting.
• 1:08:46
  Tad Eggleston: And make Batman look responsible.
• 1:08:49
  Phil: Very interesting. Okay, it's been a while since I've read Dark Knight Returns.
• 1:08:53
  Tad Eggleston: And again, that's one of the arguing points on Dark Knight Returns, but that's always how I've read that scene.
• 1:08:59
  Phil: Interesting. And I know I'm not alone.
• 1:09:02
  Tad Eggleston: It's funny, because.
• 1:09:02
  Phil: I remember reading it the other way. Right. But yeah, no, that is fascinating.
• 1:09:07
  Tad Eggleston: But… But with Year 1,
• 1:09:14
  Tad Eggleston: I think he fleshes out Bruce Wayne.
• 1:09:17
  Phil: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:09:19
  Tad Eggleston: I think with year one, he makes Batman more of a human than he's ever been. He starts the job that Tom King would take to whole other levels.
• 1:09:30
  Tad Eggleston: In terms of… Yeah, you can be rich, and you can have this… this…
• 1:09:38
  Tad Eggleston: Crusade and whatnot, but, like, you're still human, and things will invade, and you gotta figure out how to do it, and sometimes you're gonna fail, and sometimes you're gonna look silly, and…
• 1:09:54
  Tad Eggleston: And again, like, with Daredevil, and Stick, and Elektra, and…
• 1:10:01
  Phil: Digging in.
• 1:10:02
  Tad Eggleston: in a little bit more into how… how Matt Murdoch went from the Brainiac kid whose dad wouldn't let him.
• 1:10:16
  Tad Eggleston: Do much athletic, and certainly not learn anything about fighting.
• 1:10:20
  Tad Eggleston: to… to this… this powerhouse, while… Well, not just becoming… A dumb brute.
• 1:10:32
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, because that's, that's, that's…
• 1:10:35
  Tad Eggleston: It's one of the things that, like, both Batman and Daredevil done well, is…
• 1:10:41
  Tad Eggleston: really, exceptional at is that, like.
• 1:10:46
  Tad Eggleston: Most of the time, when we know people who have turned themselves into human weapons, they're also not very nice people. I'm not saying that Bruce Wayne and Matt Murdock are always nice people, but, like…
• 1:11:01
  Tad Eggleston: They seem to have some level where they don't want to give up their humanity.
• 1:11:06
  Tad Eggleston: Some level of conflict where they're not willing to sell them… turn themselves into killing machines and just point at whoever society says they should point themselves at.
• 1:11:17
  Phil: Exactly, and I mean.
• 1:11:19
  Tad Eggleston: And I think a lot of that comes from… From Miller.
• 1:11:23
  Phil: Well, I think…
• 1:11:25
  Tad Eggleston: enough of both of them before that. I'm not saying that he didn't have great shoulders to stand on.
• 1:11:32
  Tad Eggleston: But…
• 1:11:33
  Phil: So I think…
• 1:11:34
  Tad Eggleston: Need something with those characters.
• 1:11:37
  Tad Eggleston: that… That made it so that…
• 1:11:42
  Tad Eggleston: Every creator afterwards was gonna owe something to him.
• 1:11:47
  Phil: So, with Daredevil, I think that's… it's funny, because for both of these, you're absolutely right there. I think…
• 1:11:55
  Phil: I think for Daredevil, his contributions are somehow more significant, because it's at the point where…
• 1:12:02
  Tad Eggleston: Because it was a D-list character.
• 1:12:04
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:12:04
  Tad Eggleston: Daredevil… around anymore if he hadn't.
• 1:12:08
  Tad Eggleston: So yeah, in terms of, like, how important it was to the world of comics, and what it did.
• 1:12:16
  Tad Eggleston: with everything.
• 1:12:19
  Tad Eggleston: It was… it was waaaay huger.
• 1:12:28
  Tad Eggleston: to have it be… or, you know, what he did with Daredevil. And frankly, what he did with Daredevil is what got him the Batman game.
• 1:12:35
  Phil: Exactly. And with Batman, so it's funny because he… so with Daredevil, you know, Miller's run is the beating heart of Daredevil going forward. There's no way to look at the character without acknowledging that run, without looking at Elektra. He irrevocably shifted him into who he is today. With Batman…
• 1:12:55
  Phil: Okay, I was gonna say, with Batman…
• 1:12:58
  Tad Eggleston: I was gonna go on a slight tangent.
• 1:13:00
  Phil: Oh, okay, but the… he did the opposite, where he had the beginning point and the end point. So he was on either end of the character, and everyone else had to connect those dots between, you know? He became the through line, as opposed to the beating heart.
• 1:13:13
  Tad Eggleston: The endpoint wasn't strictly canon.
• 1:13:15
  Phil: No, and, and…
• 1:13:17
  Tad Eggleston: But, it's so good. I mean, like…
• 1:13:21
  Tad Eggleston: you're gonna hit Alan Moore. Alan Moore's,
• 1:13:26
  Tad Eggleston: not canon at the time, but Killing Joke was so instrumental to the Joker's character, to Barbara Gordon, etc, that it…
• 1:13:34
  Phil: Oh, yeah.
• 1:13:35
  Tad Eggleston: it got turned into Canada.
• 1:13:37
  Phil: Yeah, exactly. It exactly did. Where… or it became, a sort of midpoint between Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. But again, it stayed… it stayed in this weird liminal canon-but-not-canon space, because it also
• 1:13:55
  Phil: you know, on the ending, has Batman killing the Joker. So, it's… it's odd in that.
• 1:14:01
  Tad Eggleston: So that's another…
• 1:14:03
  Phil: Yes. It's a… it's an interpretation. I think that if you read the book, and Batman does not end with killing the Joker, then you have read a lesser book. That's… that's how I'd put that.
• 1:14:15
  Phil: Yeah. That's a discussion.
• 1:14:16
  Tad Eggleston: for another time.
• 1:14:17
  Phil: It is, it is, and I think there's… there's a lot.
• 1:14:20
  Phil: that we could get too into… but yes, but so what I… so it's funny how you, for the reinventing the classics, you went with those books that, in my mind, are now classics themselves.
• 1:14:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I'm a little bit older than you, but I was also, like…
• 1:14:34
  Tad Eggleston: I was… I was… what I really meant was reinventing the classic characters.
• 1:14:40
  Phil: And so, that's… that's a really great…
• 1:14:43
  Tad Eggleston: Taking… taking… taking… the… the character that you thought… I mean, I would… like, Sherlock almost did this.
• 1:14:55
  Tad Eggleston: Sherlock Holmes.
• 1:14:57
  Tad Eggleston: You know, but it's almost too on point… And just updated?
• 1:15:05
  Tad Eggleston: as much as.
• 1:15:05
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:15:06
  Tad Eggleston: Benedict Cumberbatch, I mean, I love Sherlock, I'm not trying to bash it, but, like, the character that I've never seen this happen for, that I would love to see it happen for, is, like, Sherlock Holmes.
• 1:15:18
  Tad Eggleston: You know, somebody to go and write something that doesn't preclude any of the canon, but gives you…
• 1:15:29
  Tad Eggleston: finally, some level of greater understanding of who Sherlock Holmes is. It defines the next hundred years' worth of people writing Sherlock Holmes.
• 1:15:39
  Phil: I think that that moment happened back in 1939 when Batman was created.
• 1:15:46
  Tad Eggleston: I mean…
• 1:15:50
  Tad Eggleston: if your argument is that we have a new great detective, sure, I'm talking about, like, one of the things that makes comics cool, that you don't see enough in other literature, but Holmes is an example where you do.
• 1:16:06
  Tad Eggleston: Is that you have characters that live outside of their creators.
• 1:16:12
  Phil: Yeah, yeah. And so, this is, this is admittedly…
• 1:16:16
  Phil: building off of, an essay that I should send you by ArpatOK, that he wrote for The Beat about Batman and, the ghettos of Gotham, and this idea that Batman as a character, his entire personality, who he is, was based off of
• 1:16:34
  Phil: an understanding of Sherlock Holmes. Oh, yeah. Because his personality is being the world's greatest detective.
• 1:16:40
  Phil: So, I, I, I honestly think that…
• 1:16:44
  Phil: a… a reinvention or re-understanding of Sherlock Holmes is kind of impossible, as long as Batman holds the cultural weight that he does, because Batman is that reinvention. It's taking a guy who is the greatest detective and adding something new to him, the symbol of the Batman.
• 1:17:01
  Tad Eggleston: That's a- another, different conversation to have. Yeah, it is.
• 1:17:08
  Phil: This one, with Peter Cannon, so… I… I went…
• 1:17:12
  Tad Eggleston: Particularly, I mean, really quick with homes.
• 1:17:15
  Phil: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:15
  Tad Eggleston: Holmes had less of the goal to be the greatest detective.
• 1:17:19
  Tad Eggleston: As to create the role for himself as the first consulting detective.
• 1:17:25
  Tad Eggleston: He's the one that didn't get involved unless, like, he was interested.
• 1:17:31
  Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:32
  Tad Eggleston: Who often would get involved Without leaving his offices.
• 1:17:40
  Phil: You know, in other words… His cave, if you will?
• 1:17:43
  Tad Eggleston: He wanted to do the minimum amount of legwork.
• 1:17:47
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:17:48
  Tad Eggleston: And the maximum amount of taking the clues.
• 1:17:54
  Tad Eggleston: And figuring out what came.
• 1:17:56
  Phil: Absolutely.
• 1:17:57
  Phil: Absolutely. And from there, so I… I had made this pick back when, we had thought that we were still talking about, Batman and Robin Year One, and, the last Halloween, you know?
• 1:18:12
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, both of those also come deeply out of year one. I mean.
• 1:18:20
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:18:20
  Tad Eggleston: It, like, like…
• 1:18:23
  Tad Eggleston: You talked about going back and forth on how much you like Jeff Loeb's writing, and I understand where you're coming from, but what he does really, really well is pick up from where Miller left off.
• 1:18:36
  Phil: Okay. Admittedly, I still have not read The Long Halloween, so that's… that's… that'll be another…
• 1:18:40
  Tad Eggleston: The long Halloween… the long Halloween dark victory last Halloween, to me, are Loeb's… Absolute masterpieces.
• 1:18:51
  Phil: Okay.
• 1:18:51
  Tad Eggleston: Because, like, he gets… And in a lot of ways, like, he does for Harvey Dent.
• 1:19:08
  Tad Eggleston: what Miller did for Bruce Wayne.
• 1:19:11
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay. At the same time, building on Miller for Wayne and Gordon.
• 1:19:18
  Phil: You know, that actually does make me pretty interested, because I did, you know, reread the first half or so of year one, and kind of got sucked in again, and it made me interested to read Long Halloween eventually, just because, I mean, I'm at the point where I…
• 1:19:34
  Phil: Two-Face is kind of a two-bit villain to me, so if that's where… oh, that's why everyone likes Two-Face? Okay, I guess I'll… I'll have to read that at some point.
• 1:19:42
  Tad Eggleston: He definitely, definitely gave… way more… Yeah, I mean, think of…
• 1:19:51
  Tad Eggleston: Think of the Harvey Dent from… Dark Knight.
• 1:19:59
  Phil: Yeah, yeah, that's.
• 1:20:02
  Tad Eggleston: That owes so much to the.
• 1:20:05
  Phil: I'm sure.
• 1:20:06
  Phil: I absolutely believe that. I mean, between that, and I'm sure, the animated series, Harvey done, probably in the same way.
• 1:20:12
  Phil: But…
• 1:20:14
  Tad Eggleston: I think the animated series might have come first, so it might be.
• 1:20:17
  Phil: Okay.
• 1:20:17
  Tad Eggleston: Lobe Sale O.
• 1:20:18
  Phil: I'm hanging in.
• 1:20:19
  Tad Eggleston: animated series.
• 1:20:20
  Phil: That would be interesting, to see how much… Pretty searched.
• 1:20:22
  Tad Eggleston: Actually…
• 1:20:23
  Phil: That animated series was pretty damn.
• 1:20:25
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, no, I mean…
• 1:20:27
  Phil: I mean, it reinvented Mr. Freeze, for one.
• 1:20:28
  Tad Eggleston: We… we… like, I like to stick to comics, but the two… the two adaptations of comics into other mediums that I'm most interested in sometimes…
• 1:20:41
  Tad Eggleston: Or sometime… Looking at our static and…
• 1:20:46
  Phil: Oh, I love static.
• 1:20:48
  Phil: Holy crap.
• 1:20:49
  Tad Eggleston: And Batman the Animated Series.
• 1:20:51
  Phil: Yeah.
• 1:20:51
  Tad Eggleston: But… We're now 10 minutes away from your.
• 1:20:56
  Phil: I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to just…
• 1:20:58
  Tad Eggleston: Especially your thoughts on…
• 1:21:00
  Phil: So… Watchmen… I'm gonna avoid the Watchmen thoughts, but here's the thing that I thought was great about…
• 1:21:07
  Tad Eggleston: That was actually the weird thing that popped into my head, is like, are any of the Charlton characters well enough known that it's really a reimagining in the same.
• 1:21:17
  Phil: So… so real quick, so first of all, at the time, I think… I think a little bit captain.
• 1:21:23
  Tad Eggleston: 96 and 97 for Long Halloween.
• 1:21:25
  Phil: Yeah, so I do think Long Halloween probably built off of, animated series a little bit, but, so… Dirty? Yeah, so that's the thing, is Watchmen, it… you're right, the… it…
• 1:21:35
  Phil: it… Watchmen itself being a reinvention is an aspect of the book that is lost, and one thing… and what I'm… when I'm talking about Peter Kane and Thunderbolt, I'm talking about the five-issue miniseries from,
• 1:21:48
  Phil: half the creative team of The Power Fantasy,
• 1:21:52
  Phil: Kieran Gillen and Caspar Wingard did a Peter Cannon Thunderbolt series, where they essentially… when we talked to Gillen, he mentioned how Young Avengers was him and Jamie kind of lamponing all these famous, Marvel Avengers storylines.
• 1:22:10
  Phil: You know, for a generation that most likely hadn't read them before.
• 1:22:14
  Phil: this, Peter Cannon Thunderbolt, it kind of takes that similar ethos and does it to Watchmen, with… only with… instead, the opposite lens of…
• 1:22:25
  Phil: you know, it's going backward and forward at the same time, you know, because it's taking the inspiration for Watchmen and responding to Watchmen through that inspiration. The fact that he's called Thunderbolt with the lightning, the jagged back and forth, is incredibly important here. There's also the multiverse.
• 1:22:43
  Tad Eggleston: Now, you're just putting it higher on my list, and thinking… You haven't read it?
• 1:22:48
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 1:22:49
  Phil: Oh, my goodness.
• 1:22:51
  Tad Eggleston: The two of them put together are probably.
• 1:22:52
  Phil: Yeah!
• 1:22:53
  Tad Eggleston: Very much a, and so… It's future, great responsibility.
• 1:22:58
  Phil: Oh, yeah, and I mean, and then the way that it…
• 1:23:03
  Phil: personalizes Ozymandias, you know, the character who Peter Cannon was the inspiration for, and it really lets you see the duality of hero and villain within him. And, you know, with Watchmen being a book that is about society and the world at large, and you lose sight of people's humanity within it, this instead narrows down that scope to, no, no, no, these are people. These are still people.
• 1:23:26
  Phil: And there's… they still have everything, that makes them people, that makes them, fault.
• 1:23:34
  Phil: faulty and foibles and imperfect. So, it's a really great, like, if you need a new way to look at Watchmen as a book, read Peter Cain and Thunderbolt by Gillen Owingard, because it will change the way you look at Watchmen.
• 1:23:48
  Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna have to try to do that over Christmas now. It's a…
• 1:23:52
  Phil: it's a pretty light read, and it'll… honestly, I think it'll read well even if you don't reread Watchmen first, because it's doing its own thing as well.
• 1:24:00
  Tad Eggleston: Alrighty.
• 1:24:01
  Tad Eggleston: We should talk about books we hope will be spectacular, and then get the hell out of here.
• 1:24:08
  Tad Eggleston: Devil on My Shoulder number one from Kyle Starks and Peter Kowalski at Dark Horse. Kyle Starks and Peter Kowalski get together, I am reading it.
• 1:24:16
  Phil: Heck yeah.
• 1:24:16
  Tad Eggleston: Orla!
• 1:24:19
  Tad Eggleston: from… Number 4, from John Lees and Sally Cantorino. I love this series so much. So, so good.
• 1:24:28
  Tad Eggleston: And Galactic, number one from Kurt Pires, and Emilka Pina at…
• 1:24:34
  Tad Eggleston: distillery. I like a lot of Kurt Pyre's work, and this one's getting described as saga meets sex criminals, so…
• 1:24:42
  Phil: Oh, wow.
• 1:24:47
  Phil: I need to jump on.
• 1:24:48
  Tad Eggleston: Kinda, kinda, kinda curious as to… to how much of that is,
• 1:24:55
  Tad Eggleston: What's the word I'm looking for? Hyperbole.
• 1:24:57
  Phil: I know.
• 1:24:59
  Tad Eggleston: So, a lot of good collections this week. We got, Buried Long Long ago.
• 1:25:04
  Tad Eggleston: From Anthony Cleveland and Alex Cormac, Free Planet from Aubrey Siderson and Jed Doherty. I feel like you're gonna talk about that again later.
• 1:25:11
  Phil: Yeah, that was…
• 1:25:12
  Tad Eggleston: Boom is, is continuing their, their, their doing complete collections of, of, Great.
• 1:25:20
  Tad Eggleston: series with Ghosted in LA from… from…
• 1:25:24
  Tad Eggleston: Sina Grayson… I don't know how to pronounce that… Schouben? Kennan?
• 1:25:29
  Phil: COBOM.
• 1:25:29
  Tad Eggleston: See ya, Bon.
• 1:25:30
  Phil: It's Irish.
• 1:25:31
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I know. I know it's Irish, but I don't know my Irish pronunciations well enough.
• 1:25:36
  Phil: That's okay. I know, like… Great British bump-off, killer bee quilt from John Allison and Max Tarin, Jeff…
• 1:25:42
  Tad Eggleston: Lemire and Dustin Wen's take on Jason Todd in Robin and Batman, and stan Sakai's Usagi Yojimbo 10,000 Plums are all…
• 1:25:53
  Tad Eggleston: So, so, like, great…
• 1:25:56
  Tad Eggleston: like, if you've heard, like, these are all books that I've talked about on this show at various times, like, this is a good week to just go pick up a collection.
• 1:26:07
  Tad Eggleston: And go ahead and go talk more about Full Planet before we go.
• 1:26:11
  Phil: That was it. I mean, it's… this is, you know, for my trade waiter pick, Tad told me, hey, Free Planet sounds like your kind of booked, so, I'm gonna see if I can't read it.
• 1:26:21
  Tad Eggleston: Peter Ackerman told me it sounded like my kind of book, and it was his favorite book right now, so put those two together, and .
• 1:26:29
  Phil: And one Mr. Kieran Gillen has also been enjoying that book, so that's a whole lot of people whose opinions I respect enjoying a book that means I should probably read it.
• 1:26:38
  Phil: It's now got the triple seal of approval, the Tad Spencer Kieran seal of approval. So, that's, that's, you know, I would be a fool to ignore that, those signs.
• 1:26:49
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, so… Yep.
• 1:26:51
  Tad Eggleston: Anyway…
• 1:26:52
  Tad Eggleston: We're an hour and a half still. One of these days we'll get tighter, or we'll just decide that we don't care.
• 1:26:59
  Phil: Tighter than 2 hours!
• 1:27:01
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but most of the time, they're 2 hours after we add in the
• 1:27:06
  Tad Eggleston: Coming, and we haven't done that yet.
• 1:27:08
  Phil: Well, there we go.
• 1:27:10
  Tad Eggleston: So…
• 1:27:11
  Phil: One day.
• 1:27:13
  Tad Eggleston: This has been 22 Panels, episode number 211. I'm gonna toss out a 6-7 to my buddy in California.
• 1:27:22
  Phil: Soon!
• 1:27:22
  Tad Eggleston: And say… Oh, you gotta, you gotta do that louder, you did that well.
• 1:27:27
  Phil: 6, 7?
• 1:27:29
  Tad Eggleston: And say, we will see you after the next page.
• 1:27:36
  Tad Eggleston: Alrighty.
• 1:27:38
  Phil: Did it say recording stopped? I didn't hear it say recording stopped.
• 1:27:41
  Tad Eggleston: Oh.