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BLK LIT: Langston Hughes - We, Too: The Life, Legacy and Longevity of a Poet · The Breakfast Club

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  Speaker 1: My name is Jacquees Thomas, and you're listening to Black Lit,
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  Speaker 1: a podcast about black literature and the stories behind the
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  Speaker 1: storytellers length and Hughes. Now that's a name that might
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  Speaker 1: conjure up some images of the Harlem Renaissance, powerful poetry
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  Speaker 1: and a voice that spoke to a whole generation. But
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  Speaker 1: before the accolades, before the iconic lines, there was a
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  Speaker 1: young man with a powerful dream, a man who was
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  Speaker 1: set out on a journey as rich and as complex
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  Speaker 1: as the poetry he penned.
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  Speaker 2: I Too.
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  Speaker 3: Am America, who wrote that.
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  Speaker 1: What you just heard was a quote from The Great Debaters,
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  Speaker 1: the award winning two thousand and seven directed by Denzel Washington,
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  Speaker 1: where Denzel delivers a line inspired by Lanson Hughes, I
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  Speaker 1: Too am America. That single phrase, drawn from Hughes' iconic
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  Speaker 1: poem I Too, published in nineteen twenty six, still resonates
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  Speaker 1: today as both a declaration and a form of defiance.
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  Speaker 1: It's a statement of belonging, one that bridges the divide
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  Speaker 1: between exclusion and inclusion. It is a black man claiming
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  Speaker 1: his rightful place in a nation that often tried to
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  Speaker 1: deny him. I Too was written during the height of
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  Speaker 1: the Harlem Renaissance. The poem describes a plague that is racism.
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  Speaker 1: It is a poetic protest expressing how he, as a
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  Speaker 1: black man, experiences this outright discrimination, and how despite not
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  Speaker 1: being offered a seat at the quote unquote table, he
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  Speaker 1: does not fret, for he knows how beautiful he is
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  Speaker 1: and how such a beauty cannot be ignored forever. The
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  Speaker 1: line tomorrow, I'll be at the table reinforces this belief
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  Speaker 1: that there is hope for America because he too is American. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: let America be America again, the land that never has
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  Speaker 1: been yet but yet must be, the land where every
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  Speaker 1: man is free, the land that's mine the poor man.
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  Speaker 3: Let it be the dream it used to be. America
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  Speaker 3: was never America to me.
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  Speaker 1: Today, Hughes is celebrated as one of the most significant
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  Speaker 1: voices of the Harlem Renaissance, a poet of the people
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  Speaker 1: and a cultural architect and icon. But who exactly was
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  Speaker 1: Lenggston Hughes? What experiences did he encounter? What was it
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  Speaker 1: like being born an only child in Joplin, Missouri, in
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  Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds to divorce parents, His childhood was fractured.
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  Speaker 1: His father, a man who had dreams. He he just
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  Speaker 1: didn't believe he could reach here in America, so he
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  Speaker 1: escaped to Mexico, abandoning Langston and his mother.
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  Speaker 2: Well, my father was very anti Negro, although he was negroing.
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  Speaker 1: And to add to that feeling of rejection, his mother,
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  Speaker 1: who was often absent in his life, left him to
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  Speaker 1: be raised mostly by his grandmother in a near destitute
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  Speaker 1: upbringing in.
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  Speaker 2: This great, big, lonesome town. I might starve for a year,
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  Speaker 2: but that extra day would get me down.
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  Speaker 4: In nineteen twenty five, Hughes was bussing tables in a Washington,
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  Speaker 4: DC hotel and he slipped a few poems to the
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  Speaker 4: famous poet Rachel Lindsay.
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  Speaker 1: Lengthy. News was a hustler. He wasn't just a poet.
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  Speaker 1: He was a busboy, a seaman, a cook, anything that
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  Speaker 1: allowed him to survive while pursuing his craft. He wrote
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  Speaker 1: between shifts and during long nights, determined to make his
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  Speaker 1: voice heard. His life was a patchwork of odd jobs,
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  Speaker 1: stitched together by a relentless passion for storytelling. But it
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  Speaker 1: wasn't just about survival. That hustle, that grit is what
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  Speaker 1: makes his story so powerful. It's why his work filled
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  Speaker 1: with themes of identity, resilience, and chasing your dreams, finds
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  Speaker 1: its way into classrooms across the country till this day.
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  Speaker 1: But how does a hustling poet who spent his night
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  Speaker 1: scribbling down on napkins and diners become one of the
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  Speaker 1: most taught poets in American classrooms? How did Langston Hughes,
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  Speaker 1: the seamen, the cook, the bus boy transform into the
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  Speaker 1: Langston Hughes that we know today, the voice of dreams, struggles,
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  Speaker 1: and resilience for students everywhere. Langston had an incredible gift
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  Speaker 1: of seeing the beauty and the pain of life and
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  Speaker 1: putting it into words. His poetry captured not just his
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  Speaker 1: own experiences, but the posts of a people. When he
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  Speaker 1: wrote about the rivers in Mississippi, or the Congo or
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  Speaker 1: the Nile, it wasn't just as locations, but as the
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  Speaker 1: history of black resilience. Dream defers doesn't just ask questions,
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  Speaker 1: it demands that you confront it. Mother to son is
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  Speaker 1: like a warm, encouraging arm around your shoulder, telling you
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  Speaker 1: to keep climbing. And that's why, decades later, teachers bring
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  Speaker 1: him into classrooms. Hughes was a bridge to history and literature.
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  Speaker 1: But also to empathy and understanding. His work wasn't just beautiful,
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  Speaker 1: it was teachable and relatable, perfect for young minds learning
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  Speaker 1: about America's diversity and struggles, about dreams and justice, about
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  Speaker 1: what it means to fight and hope and build. The
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  Speaker 1: language is rhythmic and clear. His ideas are timeless, but
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  Speaker 1: the words are simple enough to reach a middle schooler.
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  Speaker 1: He wrote, hold fast to your dreams, for without them,
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  Speaker 1: life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly. You
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  Speaker 1: don't need a dictionary for that, because you can feel
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  Speaker 1: it in your soul. As we explore the life and
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  Speaker 1: legacy of Langston Hughes, we had the privilege of speaking
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  Speaker 1: with doctor Carmeletta Williams, the current CEO of the Black
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  Speaker 1: Archives of Mid America and a scholar with three decades
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  Speaker 1: of experience and a passion for Hughes's work. She shared
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  Speaker 1: a deep understanding of his life and gave historical contacts
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  Speaker 1: and insight into what made his voice so revered. Her
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  Speaker 1: ability to connect Langston's work to the broader Black experience
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  Speaker 1: and contemporary conversations made her an extraordinary resource, and we
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  Speaker 1: were truly honored to have her with us and to
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  Speaker 1: share this conversation with you.
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  Speaker 5: When he was telling stories than the blues genre, and
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  Speaker 5: he was telling the story that the people who made.
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  Speaker 2: Him famous that they were living.
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  Speaker 5: So he was with the folks he hung out and
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  Speaker 5: churches and as well as in bars, so absorbing all
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  Speaker 5: aspects of the culture.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what he wrote about. The Negro Mother is powerful.
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  Speaker 5: Because it hit so many people and they're like, yeah,
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  Speaker 5: my mother's story is a little bit different, but basically
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  Speaker 5: this is her tale too.
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  Speaker 3: Now through my children, young and free, I realized the blessings.
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  Speaker 2: Deny to me.
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  Speaker 5: Of course my mother was Bangstern's generation are after. But
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  Speaker 5: I saw those stairs, I saw that journey life for
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  Speaker 5: me ain't been no crystal statics, had tax in it, boards,
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  Speaker 5: throwing up places with no carpet on the floor.
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  Speaker 2: Fair.
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  Speaker 5: So I think that he wrote about real life and
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  Speaker 5: that people didn't imagine. Plus he was in the time
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  Speaker 5: he didn't want to take the art so far. I
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  Speaker 5: feel that the regular folk, the common folks, the what
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  Speaker 5: Langston called the negro lois down so that they could
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  Speaker 5: feel it, they could accept that, and then that was
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  Speaker 5: what made him famous. Now also we know about his
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  Speaker 5: relationship with white folks, is that he.
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  Speaker 2: Didn't cater to them.
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  Speaker 5: Is even though he depended on people like the god
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  Speaker 5: Mother to give him finances and to get him published
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  Speaker 5: and to you know, and he stayed in their homes,
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  Speaker 5: he still wrote his art and he still told about
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  Speaker 5: those lives. And so he bifurcated in a means that
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  Speaker 5: he could operate moviesily in both worlds. And that's been
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  Speaker 5: said of zor two, so we can get to that
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  Speaker 5: they moved easily through all kinds of cultures, but they
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  Speaker 5: stay true to who they were, to their blackness, to
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  Speaker 5: their history, to their people.
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  Speaker 2: And those are the stories that he wrote about.
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  Speaker 1: Hughes said, I want to write so that everyone can understand,
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  Speaker 1: and he did. That's why you find him in the
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  Speaker 1: pages of school books, inspiring kids to dream big, to
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  Speaker 1: ask questions, to see the world for what it is
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  Speaker 1: and for what it could be. He was an artist
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  Speaker 1: who refused to separate black culture from his art. To him,
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  Speaker 1: jazz and blues weren't just background music. They wore the
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  Speaker 1: heartbeat and soul of his poetry. And that's what makes
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  Speaker 1: Langston Hughes so revolutionary and enduring. He wasn't writing to
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  Speaker 1: impress an exclusive elite. He was writing to connect, to
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  Speaker 1: give voice to the hustlers, to the dreamers, and the
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  Speaker 1: preachers who might otherwise go unheard. His words carry the
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  Speaker 1: rhythm of the streets, the posts of jazz, and the
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  Speaker 1: soul of the everyday person trying to carve out a
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  Speaker 1: piece of the world. Langston understood that poetry wasn't just
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  Speaker 1: for libraries or lecture halls. It was for the people.
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  Speaker 1: It was for the mother humming blues while she cooked,
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  Speaker 1: for the busker playing a saxophone on a Harlem corner,
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  Speaker 1: for the worker coming home late, dreaming of a better tomorrow.
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  Speaker 1: Hughes speaks directly to the human condition, raw, real, and
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  Speaker 1: most importantly accessible, breaking down the barriers between high art
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  Speaker 1: and popular culture.
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  Speaker 5: We know where he came from. We know that he
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  Speaker 5: came from spare and meager beginnings. I tear up every
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  Speaker 5: time I read about him having to put newspaper in
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  Speaker 5: his shoes, which were usually women's shoes that they had
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  Speaker 5: gotten someplace in the winter time because they didn't have
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  Speaker 5: any money, having to live with Auntie and uncle because
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  Speaker 5: they didn't have any money. And he didn't just say, okay,
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  Speaker 5: I'm above this now. Langston took care of his mother
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  Speaker 5: till she died, and in many places along that road
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  Speaker 5: he had to do it out to take care of her.
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  Speaker 5: He's a man who searched his whole life for a
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  Speaker 5: close relationship with his brother and died without actually having
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  Speaker 5: achieved that.
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  Speaker 2: So he knew what life was like.
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  Speaker 5: He knew what people were really going through, and he
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  Speaker 5: didn't discard it. It's like, yeah, I'm writing in limousines
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  Speaker 5: to the met now, So he didn't live that being
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  Speaker 5: the controlling factor. It was always who he was at
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  Speaker 5: that time, where he came from, and who the people were.
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  Speaker 2: When it's not a miss.
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  Speaker 5: I don't think that when he left and moved to
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  Speaker 5: New York. He moved to Harlem, you know, and he
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  Speaker 5: was right next door to the YMCA. When he died,
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  Speaker 5: he lived right next door to the YMCA, So that
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  Speaker 5: wasn't an accidental cycle. I think that was always his
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  Speaker 5: plan was to be with the people, and he talked
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  Speaker 5: about being with his people and what he could do
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  Speaker 5: for them. So I think that we remember him now,
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  Speaker 5: we read him now because we still see ourselves in
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  Speaker 5: his work. We see our lives, we see our history,
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  Speaker 5: we see our families, we see our neighbors in what
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  Speaker 5: he wrote, because that's what he did. He took those
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  Speaker 5: ordinary people and made wonderful stories.
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  Speaker 2: He told their stories, he made up stories about them.
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  Speaker 5: And that's why I think it lasts so long, and
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  Speaker 5: it's still lasting now.
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  Speaker 2: Beautiful also is a son.
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  Speaker 5: Beautiful also are the souls of my people?
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  Speaker 2: Are my people.
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  Speaker 1: This universality is why his poetry seamlessly transitions into music,
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  Speaker 1: influencing not only jazz and blues, but laying the groundwork
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  Speaker 1: for hip hop. Hugh's rhythms, cadences, and themes can be
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  Speaker 1: compared to the verses of nineties conscious rappers like Nas
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  Speaker 1: Common and Toothpop, who, like Hughes, spoke to the struggles
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  Speaker 1: and dreams of their communities. His poems are the spiritual
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  Speaker 1: ancestors of rap lyrics, the original anthems of resilience and pride.
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  Speaker 1: Lanxon Hughes made art for the people, for his people,
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  Speaker 1: and that's why his influence indoors. His poetry doesn't just
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  Speaker 1: sit on a page. It moves, It sings, it marches.
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  Speaker 1: It's very much alive today as it was in a
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  Speaker 1: Harlem Renaissance, proving that the rhythm of the streets is timeless,
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  Speaker 1: you are listening to black lids. To truly grasp the
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  Speaker 1: depth of Langston Hughes's insight, we must look back to
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  Speaker 1: a defining moment in his young life, a moment that
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  Speaker 1: shaped the lens through which he would view the world.
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  Speaker 1: Envision a young Langston now living with his godfaring aunt
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  Speaker 1: and pipe laying uncle after the passing of his grandmother.
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  Speaker 1: Although he loved his aunt and uncle, he was just
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  Speaker 1: thirteen when his aunt brought him to church to get saved.
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  Speaker 1: He sat nervously in a church in his hometown in Lawrence, Kansas, waiting, waiting.
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  Speaker 1: It was supposed to be a moment of salvation, waiting, waiting,
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  Speaker 1: a rite of passage into faith. The congregation full of
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  Speaker 1: fervor and hope, waiting waiting for Langston to join the
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  Speaker 1: procession of young souls saved by God, and his aunt
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  Speaker 1: desperately awaiting to affirm her hope.
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  Speaker 2: Waiting, waiting, waiting.
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  Speaker 1: Lengthen set palm, sweating, waiting, waity, searching. He wanted to
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  Speaker 1: feel something, anything, that would affirm the presence of a
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  Speaker 1: higher power, but that moment never came. Eventually, under immense pressure,
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  Speaker 1: he walked to the altar not out of faith, but
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  Speaker 1: to fulfill his aunt's expectations and to end the spectacle.
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  Speaker 1: That night, alone in his room, Lengthton cried not tears
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  Speaker 1: of joy, but of profound disillusionment. He had been searching
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  Speaker 1: for God and instead found the weight of expectation and pretense.
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  Speaker 1: The walls were thin, and his aunt heard his tears
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  Speaker 1: and assumed they were of glory. This was a moment
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  Speaker 1: that would stay with him, shaping his understanding of faith
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  Speaker 1: community in the gap between societal norms and individual truth.
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  Speaker 5: We know that story because he's hearing and he's hearing,
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  Speaker 5: and he's hearing that all of these children are all
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  Speaker 5: going to be saved, and he knows some of them
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  Speaker 5: are faking it because they talk about it. And then
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  Speaker 5: when it comes to the point where he's last kid's
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  Speaker 5: city and this service is not going to end if
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  Speaker 5: he doesn't, then he goes to the altar and he
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  Speaker 5: pretends to have seen Jesus. And that night, well, you know,
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  Speaker 5: when he goes home, he hears his auntie and Oglerie
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  Speaker 5: talking and she talks about how proud she is of
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  Speaker 5: him for having found God, and chal Ree doesn't care
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  Speaker 5: at all.
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  Speaker 2: You know, he's not that religious person.
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  Speaker 5: But then he feels guilt because he had lied to
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  Speaker 5: people who had been so good to him. And I
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  Speaker 5: think that's the reason that when he needed God, he
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  Speaker 5: didn't come to He wasn't there, he didn't come to him.
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  Speaker 5: So I think that's why we see this mixture of
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  Speaker 5: emotions when it comes to religion in his work, because
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  Speaker 5: we see those women that he writes about who actually
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  Speaker 5: retreat to the church because their lives, their personal lives
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  Speaker 5: are so heavy and they can't deal with themselves.
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  Speaker 2: They go to the church. They retreat to the church.
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  Speaker 2: But we also see.
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  Speaker 5: Him going to church, and he has a good time
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  Speaker 5: when he goes, but he goes to listen to the
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  Speaker 5: music and listen to the people, not necessarily to connected God.
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  Speaker 5: So we have then this split, this bifurcation of this
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  Speaker 5: guy who was raised in the people that the person
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  Speaker 5: that he loved most anti read, who took care of
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  Speaker 5: him and took care of his grandmother, wanted to embed
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  Speaker 5: this religion in him, and then him thinking as a
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  Speaker 5: child that God didn't become when I needed it. So
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  Speaker 5: what does he do with that? Well, he keeps going
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  Speaker 5: to church in different churches, and somehow, I think at
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  Speaker 5: times he was pretending just to be going for the
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  Speaker 5: music because he got hurt of music other places, but
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  Speaker 5: he also wanted to be in that community of blackness.
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  Speaker 1: This pivotal experience would later ring throughout Hughes's work. His
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  Speaker 1: poetry often wrestled with the tension between belief and skepticism,
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  Speaker 1: hope and despair. In poems like The Negro Speaks of
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Rivers and Goodbye Christ, he grapples with the spiritual and
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  Speaker 1: existential questions that define not just his life, but the
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  Speaker 1: lives of many. He understood the beauty and the power
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  Speaker 1: of faith, but he also saw how it could be
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  Speaker 1: weaponized or hollowed out by human failings. This experience marks
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  Speaker 1: a consistent conflict that shows up throughout Langston's work. Later on,
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  Speaker 1: after visiting the Soviet Union and seeing socialism working. Here
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  Speaker 1: are a few words from the poem Goodbye Christ, where
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  Speaker 1: Hughes calls for a rethinking of dominant American beliefs. Listen, Christ,
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  Speaker 1: you did all right in your day, I reckon, but
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  Speaker 1: that day's gone now. They ghosted you up A swell
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: story too, called it Bible, but it's dead now. The
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: popes and the preachers have made much money from him.
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  Speaker 1: Linx and Hughes' search for truth beginning at that church.
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  Speaker 1: Fuel was never about easy answers. It was about embracing
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  Speaker 1: the complexity of life, the struggles and contradictions that make
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  Speaker 1: us human. And in doing so, he became the unchallenged
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  Speaker 1: spokesman of the black experience.
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  Speaker 5: He wanted to be with those black folks in the church.
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  Speaker 5: You wanted to share their life stories. You wanted to
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  Speaker 5: hear their testimonies, and he wanted them to sing that
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  Speaker 5: story out so that he could absorb that. And then
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  Speaker 5: on the other hand, you know when he talks about music,
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  Speaker 5: he talks a lot about the blues, and the blues
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  Speaker 5: he says of this stories of those people that starts
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  Speaker 5: in their gut and tells their stories. And when he
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  Speaker 5: needed help, it was the people. And when he wanted
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  Speaker 5: to fill hole, he went.
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  Speaker 2: To the people.
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  Speaker 5: It was the folk that helped Bangston. The folks stayed there,
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  Speaker 5: the folk who helped him to reach his goals and
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  Speaker 5: realize its dreams. So for me, I think Blangston's religion
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  Speaker 5: and his non religion.
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  Speaker 2: We're all a totally merchant into black life.
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  Speaker 5: This is what it feels to be black and he
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  Speaker 5: wants to feel all aspects of it.
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  Speaker 1: Chocolate Darling out of a dream, born uns into the
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  Speaker 1: Coco Brown whom pomegranate lived, pride of the town.
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  Speaker 2: Lazy Hughes and the Death Poet.
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  Speaker 1: What you just heard was Yassin Bay, the artist known
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: as most Death, reciting Hughes's Harlem Sweeties on an episode
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  Speaker 1: of HBO's Deaf Poetry Jam. It's a powerful connection between
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  Speaker 1: two eras, but also transcends time, where poetry becomes music,
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  Speaker 1: becomes culture, becomes life itself. Hughes wasn't just a writer,
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  Speaker 1: he was a witness. He documented the Black experience and
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  Speaker 1: all its complexity, the pain and the perseverance, but also
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  Speaker 1: the beauty. And then, like Harlem Sweeties, he celebrates the
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  Speaker 1: beauty of Black women, the laughter and the loss. He
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  Speaker 1: gave dignity to lives ignored, carving out spaces for those
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  Speaker 1: stories to be heard.
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  Speaker 5: Many of my poems are poems about the problems of
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: American democracy in general, as applied to race.
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  Speaker 2: Leston Hughes is one of the greatest poets to ever exist.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I am fed up with Jim crow Laws.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: People are cruel.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I'm afraid who ron.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Zyon the Weapon the Lord formed against those I prefer
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: the Lord mathematics.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Sob Jim Crows a poet like Blaxton Hughes and can't lose.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: The very roots of hip hop are in Langston Hughes's work,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the flow of his words, the raw honesty of his storytelling.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: They formed the blueprint for artists like Kendrick Andre three thousand,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Black Thought, Most Death. They embodied Hughes' core sensibility to
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: take the everyday struggles and triumphs of black life and
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: turn them into art. Leanthon Hughes was a poet of truth.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: He didn't shy away from the tension between faith and doubt,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: between family and interdependence. In fact, his work often peeled
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: back the layers of social norms to reveal what lies
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: beneath humanity. Lengthton didn't just write about the world, He
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: changed how we see it. He turned the Harlem streets
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: into poetry, transformed jazz and blues into structure, and made
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: a legacy that flows like the mighty River from the
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Harlem Renaissance to the beats of hip hop. But before
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: the poet, before the legacy, there was the revival, a
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: moment of silence, a moment doubt and the moment when
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Lens and Hughes began to discover his truth. It was
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the birth of a vision, not bound but what should be,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: but by what is?
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: You had to risk it all, you had to go.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Bro.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Now, I what I would have likes to what I
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: would have w duvoir, what I would have Fredrick Douglass.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: As my team and I were wrapping up the edit
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: and final selects for this episode, we received word of
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Nikki Giovanni's passing, so in honor of her, we end
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: on a poem she wrote, for links and heres, rest
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: and peace to you both. Thank you for your literature,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: your art, your words, your poetry, and for your ancestral mentorship.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: We are grateful.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: If I took a rainbow ride, I could be there
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: by your side. Metaphor has its point of view, illusion
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: and illusion to meter verse, classical free poems, or what
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: you do to Me?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Join us next week as we explore more of Linkston's
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: life and work. Black Lit is a Black Effect original
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: series in partnership with iHeartMedia. Is written and created by myself,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Jack Queis Thomas and executive produce alongside Dolly s Bishop.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Chanelle Collins is the Director of Production, Head of Talent
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Nicole Spence, writer producer Jason Torres, Our researcher and producer
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: is Jabari Davis, and the mix and sound design is
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: by the Humble Duane Crawford Special thanks to doctor CROMLETTA.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Williams.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Gratitude is an action, so I have to give praise
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to those who took the time out to write a review.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Please keep sharing and we will promise to bring more
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: writers and greater episodes to you. Also, if you're looking
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to become a writer or in search of a supportive
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: writing community, join me for a free creative writing session
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: on my website black writers Room dot com, BLK writer's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Room dot com, or hit me up directly from more
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: details at Underscore t h A T S P E
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: A c E.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: That's piece