Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #475 Jason Flom with Leslie Vass

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#475 Jason Flom with Leslie Vass · Wrongful Conviction

0:03
Speaker 1: On November two, nineteen seventy four, a Baltimore General store
0:07
Speaker 1: delivery man claimed that he was robbed by three armed men.
0:11
Speaker 1: When he and his co workers returned to the scene,
0:14
Speaker 1: they saw the three alleged assailants drive off and reported
0:18
Speaker 1: the license plate number to police, but when the car
0:21
Speaker 1: was pulled over, only two men were arrested, despite the
0:25
Speaker 1: protestations of his coworkers. The delivery driver later identified a
0:30
Speaker 1: regular at the general store, seventeen year old Leslie Vass,
0:33
Speaker 1: as the third assailant. But this is wrongful conviction. Wrongful
0:44
Speaker 1: conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison,
0:47
Speaker 1: and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us
0:51
Speaker 1: at eight three three two o seven four six sixty
0:54
Speaker 1: six and tell us how these stories make you feel
0:56
Speaker 1: and what you've done to help the cause, even if
0:59
Speaker 1: it's something a say boys, telling a friend or sharing
1:02
Speaker 1: on social media, and you might just hear yourself in
1:05
Speaker 1: a future episode. Call us A three three two o
1:09
Speaker 1: seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction,
1:21
Speaker 1: where we've got I believe the first wrongful conviction ever
1:26
Speaker 1: recognized by the State of Maryland, and it appears that
1:29
Speaker 1: at least some folks still have a problem with wiping
1:32
Speaker 1: the slate clean once and for all. But before we
1:37
Speaker 1: get into all that, let's introduce the man himself, Leslie
1:40
Speaker 1: vas Leslie, thank you for sharing your story.
1:44
Speaker 2: Thank you for lowing me.
1:45
Speaker 1: It's an honor to have you here with us. So
1:47
Speaker 1: let's go back and start from the beginning.
1:49
Speaker 2: I was born September seventh, nineteen fifty seven, and in
1:53
Speaker 2: the South Forma area. My mom she moved up here
1:57
Speaker 2: to Maryland from Henderson, North Carolina. I never knew anything
2:01
Speaker 2: about a personal relationship with my father, whom I had
2:05
Speaker 2: never met at that time. At the age of two
2:08
Speaker 2: years old, my mom's had allowed my guard mother, Shirly Ray,
2:14
Speaker 2: to take me and move to Brooklyn, New York, up
2:18
Speaker 2: in bed Star Breevoid Projects Ben Star Do a Die.
2:22
Speaker 2: I still remember that right, and I grew up there,
2:25
Speaker 2: attending school there, and in the summertime I would come
2:29
Speaker 2: back here Baltimore. That went on for a period of time.
2:33
Speaker 2: When I was fifteen, I had actually come back to
2:36
Speaker 2: Maryland to actually live with my mom. I moved into
2:40
Speaker 2: the projects, but my weekends was spent at my grandfather's
2:44
Speaker 2: house in the South Bahma area. So then we went
2:48
Speaker 2: forth to me playing basketball. I really became sincere about it.
2:54
Speaker 2: When I was in junior high school. When the weather
2:56
Speaker 2: was bad, I was on the court. Right when the
2:59
Speaker 2: weather was good, was on the court because I made
3:01
Speaker 2: applants for myself. I wanted to excel Earl the Pearl,
3:05
Speaker 2: Walt Frasier, Western Cell and all that. That's the era
3:09
Speaker 2: I grew up in, and that was my dream and
3:12
Speaker 2: aspirations to really become the best.
3:15
Speaker 1: The year that Leslie was arrested, he had won the
3:17
Speaker 1: city wide championship, and his skill gave him notoriety, including
3:22
Speaker 1: at the neighborhood's social hub that became part of a
3:25
Speaker 1: robbery investigation, the Westport Pharmacy.
3:27
Speaker 2: It was the only store in that community had a
3:31
Speaker 2: deli back in and back where people go sit down
3:34
Speaker 2: with stools and stuff and eat and drink sodas and
3:37
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. That's how this place was.
3:40
Speaker 2: I come in that store regularly. I would remember going
3:44
Speaker 2: in the back of the store and speaking to the
3:47
Speaker 2: delivery drivers that I knew, Clarence mcclerk and Willie Adams.
3:52
Speaker 2: Mister Clarence was like, Leslie, how many points are you
3:54
Speaker 2: gonna give him this week. I'm saying I don't know
3:56
Speaker 2: about thirty points right, laughing and joking.
4:00
Speaker 1: In addition to Clarence McCleary and Willie Adams, another man,
4:03
Speaker 1: Joseph Chester, did deliveries on the weekends when Leslie was
4:06
Speaker 1: usually at his grandfather's house in another neighborhood, and on
4:09
Speaker 1: one particular Saturday, November two, nineteen seventy four, Joseph Chester
4:14
Speaker 1: claimed to have been robbed.
4:15
Speaker 2: I think it was supposed been around seven or something
4:18
Speaker 2: in the evening. There was a call put into the
4:21
Speaker 2: Westport Pharmacy for some kind of alcoholic beverages that they
4:26
Speaker 2: wanted to deliver it at twenty seven o seven Spellman
4:31
Speaker 2: Road on the second floor or something right. The delivery
4:34
Speaker 2: driver supposed to said that when he pulled up, he
4:37
Speaker 2: observed three men just lounging around outside. He said he
4:41
Speaker 2: went up the steps to the second floor and said
4:44
Speaker 2: that whoever the lady was to answer the door, said
4:47
Speaker 2: that she didn't call for a delivery. Said he turned
4:50
Speaker 2: around and come back downstairs. As he coming by the gods,
4:55
Speaker 2: one of the guys stepped out and told him to
4:58
Speaker 2: put his hands up. He said. The other guy put
5:01
Speaker 2: a gun to his head. He said, the other guy
5:04
Speaker 2: stood on the side and didn't say anything or do anything.
5:08
Speaker 2: Then the guy that was supposed to be me with
5:10
Speaker 2: the short cut haircut, took the money out of his
5:13
Speaker 2: pocket and told him to get him his vehicle and
5:16
Speaker 2: drive off. He said he went down to the gas
5:20
Speaker 2: station and called the robbery in. Then he called the
5:24
Speaker 2: Westport pharmacy to let them know that he had been robbed.
5:28
Speaker 2: Then mister Clarence in them. They met him over there,
5:32
Speaker 2: and they sat outside of the building in mister Clarence
5:36
Speaker 2: car and they waited and they watched three men who
5:41
Speaker 2: the victim identified as being the people who robbed him,
5:45
Speaker 2: come out the building and get into this yellow volkswagon.
5:49
Speaker 2: They followed it and used the phone to notify the
5:52
Speaker 2: police and gave them the tag number. From the reports,
5:55
Speaker 2: it showed that the vehicle was stopped. Two of these
6:00
Speaker 2: men were at the Balemas City drug program called Cash.
6:06
Speaker 2: They came home on the weekend, committed the robbery and
6:11
Speaker 2: were actually going back to the jail.
6:14
Speaker 1: At the time of his trial, Leslie was unaware of
6:16
Speaker 1: this police report, and for some reason, the report only
6:19
Speaker 1: documented these two of the three men Joseph Lewis White
6:23
Speaker 1: and Claude Knight.
6:24
Speaker 2: One man pled guilty got five years probation. The other
6:28
Speaker 2: one was found guilty and given a five year consecutive
6:33
Speaker 2: sentence to whatever sentence he was serving for a number charge.
6:37
Speaker 2: But it's three of y'all that's supposed to have been
6:40
Speaker 2: in his vehicle.
6:41
Speaker 1: Leslie discovered the third man's identity unfortunately much later. So
6:45
Speaker 1: three men were in the yellow volkswagon that night, none
6:48
Speaker 1: of them were Leslie, and only two of them were
6:51
Speaker 1: held accountable. And it appears that the alleged victim in
6:54
Speaker 1: this case, who had already id'd the third assailant in
6:57
Speaker 1: front of his coworkers, may have used that third suspect
7:01
Speaker 1: role to his own ends. On February fifteenth, nineteen seventy five.
7:05
Speaker 2: My moms woke me up on a Saturday, told me, Leslie,
7:08
Speaker 2: I want you to go to the store, get me
7:10
Speaker 2: a paper. I call in front of mine Harrison. They
7:13
Speaker 2: lived down the street from me, like a couple of
7:15
Speaker 2: doors down, asking him did he want to walk over?
7:18
Speaker 2: And we see the fellow who owns the place called Doc,
7:22
Speaker 2: and I'm said, doctor, you got any papers? He said,
7:24
Speaker 2: go out front? They had a paper dispenser chained to
7:27
Speaker 2: the poles. I went out there and got the paper.
7:30
Speaker 2: As I turn around, I heard someone say, you with
7:33
Speaker 2: the level coat on, go stand up against the wall.
7:36
Speaker 2: I turn around and looking at a police officer with
7:39
Speaker 2: his gun pointed at us. I'm like, woo me. He said, dah. Now,
7:43
Speaker 2: I'm a seventeen year old kid that ain't never been arrested.
7:46
Speaker 2: This man put his gun to the back of my
7:48
Speaker 2: head and told me face that ball. I heard him
7:51
Speaker 2: saying something to somebody and I heard a voice say
7:53
Speaker 2: it looks like him, and he said, well, you're under
7:57
Speaker 2: arrest for arm roby. I said, arm briby. I said, sir,
8:00
Speaker 2: I just came up the store, asked doc. I said,
8:03
Speaker 2: mister Clarins, saying because I ain't robbed no store. He said,
8:07
Speaker 2: shut up, you're under arrest. Tell it to the judge. Now.
8:11
Speaker 2: I was undimpression that the robbery happened the day that
8:16
Speaker 2: I was being.
8:17
Speaker 1: Arrested, and that confusion may have been cleared up if
8:20
Speaker 1: they held a hearing to bound his case over from
8:22
Speaker 1: juvenile court. But they just granted seventeen year old Leslie
8:25
Speaker 1: Bell released him to his mother and instructed him to
8:29
Speaker 1: have no contact at all with the Westport pharmacy as
8:32
Speaker 1: he waited to be tried as an adult.
8:34
Speaker 2: My mom's she entrusted my safety and well being to
8:38
Speaker 2: an attorney by the name of robber Paul Conrad. I'll
8:43
Speaker 2: never forget that name. When I went to see him
8:46
Speaker 2: the first time, the only thing he said to me was,
8:49
Speaker 2: did your mother send me an envelope? I said, sir,
8:52
Speaker 2: I said, well, what about this case? Did these people
8:56
Speaker 2: talk about? I robbed the drug store? I said, I know, doctor,
9:00
Speaker 2: don't worry about that. Let me deal with that. I
9:03
Speaker 2: know how, but I'm doing I'm the lawyer. He never
9:05
Speaker 2: gave me any information about the case whatsoever.
9:09
Speaker 1: Including the date of the robbery, the details from the
9:11
Speaker 1: police report, the identity of his two co defendants, Joe
9:14
Speaker 1: Louis White and Claude Knight, how Joseph Chester had I
9:17
Speaker 1: d'd the three assailants in front of the other deliverymen,
9:19
Speaker 1: as well as how the third man's description simply didn't
9:22
Speaker 1: match Leslie. He was older with short, cropped hair. Nothing
9:27
Speaker 1: was shared that would have helped Leslie develop an alibi
9:30
Speaker 1: defense for trial. On July second, nineteen seventy five.
9:33
Speaker 2: Now, I remember, I'm standing in the hallway and I
9:36
Speaker 2: see Clarss mccluy and Willie Adams, the two drivers for
9:41
Speaker 2: the Westport Pharmacy, and they're talking to a white guy
9:44
Speaker 2: with a suit on who I found out was the
9:47
Speaker 2: state's attorney and the case against me all right now,
9:51
Speaker 2: When they see me, they look around and they said, boy,
9:55
Speaker 2: what are you doing in here? I said they locked
9:58
Speaker 2: me up, and said I robbed And the guy was
10:01
Speaker 2: still standing there and they turned around looked at him,
10:04
Speaker 2: and he said, this kid wasn't the people that we
10:06
Speaker 2: seeing in the car that ribed that man. And I'm
10:09
Speaker 2: hearing this, but I don't understand none of it because
10:12
Speaker 2: I don't know the essence of the story. So I
10:15
Speaker 2: remember the man said to them, y'all gonna be dismissed
10:18
Speaker 2: as witnesses. So he was like, Leslie, something is wrong here.
10:23
Speaker 2: Who is your attorney? Now, as I'm saying that, he's
10:26
Speaker 2: coming up the steps. Him and the white guy they
10:30
Speaker 2: start talking. Then he comes back over to me and
10:33
Speaker 2: I said, sir, he said, I don't want to hear
10:36
Speaker 2: none of that. He said, I told you don't talk
10:38
Speaker 2: to anybody. You know. It's a lot of other things.
10:41
Speaker 2: I learned about that attorney after I was convicted. Right,
10:46
Speaker 2: come to find out the judge that my case was
10:49
Speaker 2: before was a well known racist.
10:53
Speaker 1: Leslie's hired attorney, Robert Conrad, advised him, a seventeen year
10:57
Speaker 1: old kid, to take a bench trial in front of
10:59
Speaker 1: Judge same parat, while keeping him completely in the dark
11:03
Speaker 1: about the evidence, including the star witness.
11:06
Speaker 2: They called the case. Then they say the victim, Joseph
11:10
Speaker 2: Frederick Chester. I'm like, who is that? And the lawyer
11:13
Speaker 2: turns to me and say, that's the victim. You never
11:15
Speaker 2: seen the man that you charged with robbing? I said, man,
11:19
Speaker 2: I said that man had me put my face through
11:20
Speaker 2: the wall. I never turned around, I said, I ain't
11:23
Speaker 2: never seen that man a day in my life. But
11:25
Speaker 2: he was in the hallway watching me when I was
11:28
Speaker 2: walking home with mister Clarenson. I'm coming And mister Clarinson
11:32
Speaker 2: then went to him and told him, you're wrong. He
11:35
Speaker 2: wasn't one of the people that was in that car
11:37
Speaker 2: that night.
11:38
Speaker 1: Nevertheless, something had convinced Joseph Chester to again identify Leslie
11:43
Speaker 1: as the third assailant.
11:44
Speaker 2: The victim testified that he was ribbed by three men
11:48
Speaker 2: and that I was supposed to have been the man
11:50
Speaker 2: that removed the money from his pocket. Another dude supposed
11:54
Speaker 2: to hell I got into his head, and the other
11:56
Speaker 2: guy just stood on the side. But all three of
11:59
Speaker 2: us supposed been accompliced. I said, well, where they at
12:02
Speaker 2: because I don't know them. They asked, do you know
12:04
Speaker 2: a fellow by the name of Joe Lowis talking about
12:06
Speaker 2: the boxer. No, it's a fellow named Joe Lewis that
12:10
Speaker 2: was with you when you committed I said, I don't
12:13
Speaker 2: know anyone named Joe Lawns, and I didn't commit this ribbery. Right,
12:16
Speaker 2: My testimony was consistent to what I knew that had
12:20
Speaker 2: happened up February fifteen, nineteen seventy five. I'm finding out
12:25
Speaker 2: that the robbery happened in November. The state's attorney asked me,
12:30
Speaker 2: where were you November two, nineteen seventy four. I said,
12:34
Speaker 2: I can't specifically say. I said, if it was a weekend,
12:37
Speaker 2: then I probably was at my grandfather's house.
12:40
Speaker 1: Then Leslie's attorney, Robert Conrad, I didn't call mister McCleary
12:43
Speaker 1: or mister Adams to impeach the state's only witness, leaving
12:46
Speaker 1: it all up to this judge.
12:48
Speaker 2: The judge stated that he believed him over me, and
12:53
Speaker 2: I looked at the attorney. He laughed. He looked at
12:57
Speaker 2: me and laughed, man, like the fuck It was fun,
13:00
Speaker 2: you understand. And I was tripped on and I was like,
13:03
Speaker 2: you did this? Man? You know that I had nothing
13:05
Speaker 2: to do with this, and he was like, nigga, you're
13:08
Speaker 2: gonna serve this twenty years.
13:22
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13:27
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13:30
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13:37
Speaker 2: You laughed me up at the age of seventeen. I'm
13:40
Speaker 2: in a massive security Maryland State pen attention where people
13:43
Speaker 2: getting killed in the dining home. You understand people stabbing
13:48
Speaker 2: each other, niggas raping other boys and all that kind
13:51
Speaker 2: of stuff. While I'm in there, Death row is directly
13:56
Speaker 2: above me. The guys on death row when the article
14:00
Speaker 2: who came out about seventeen year old basketball star received
14:04
Speaker 2: twenty years sentence, they must have followed sports when I
14:07
Speaker 2: was out in the street, because when I come to
14:09
Speaker 2: the penchuchry guys who on death row taught me how
14:12
Speaker 2: to file for the freedom of information that I don't know,
14:17
Speaker 2: just God, that I've been mistaken for who he is.
14:20
Speaker 2: I don't know nothing about the people I was charged
14:22
Speaker 2: with being co defenders too. And I stayed up at night. Man,
14:27
Speaker 2: my glasses is thick, all right. I stayed up at
14:30
Speaker 2: night reading constantly of what I need to understand about
14:35
Speaker 2: the process regarding armed ribery, what it consisted of the essence,
14:41
Speaker 2: the elements and all that. And I became very adept
14:45
Speaker 2: with what I was doing, to the point I was
14:47
Speaker 2: helping other individuals get out, get their sentence reduced.
14:51
Speaker 1: And are to call Leslie's main issue an ineffective assistance
14:54
Speaker 1: of council claim is an insult, frankly to shitty lawyers.
14:59
Speaker 1: It appears that Bob Conrad actually helped this judge convict Leslie.
15:04
Speaker 2: Everybody claimed he was such a good attorney, but he
15:07
Speaker 2: was only good for those that he wanted to work for.
15:11
Speaker 2: When it comes to people of color, he made it
15:14
Speaker 2: clear how he felt about them. This man was a
15:17
Speaker 2: well known racist individual. But when I fouled complaint against
15:23
Speaker 2: him with the Attorney Grievans Commission, the Greevans Commission chairman
15:29
Speaker 2: sent me a letter back saying, Bob Conrad has been
15:32
Speaker 2: a dear friend to me for years, and I do
15:35
Speaker 2: not believe for you he's an honorary member of this
15:40
Speaker 2: Bark mission. I'm saying, well, if that's the case, then
15:43
Speaker 2: you need to outside. This is somebody else to investigate,
15:46
Speaker 2: because this ethical issue here for you. How can you
15:49
Speaker 2: investigate yourself?
15:51
Speaker 1: So there was no movement on the grievance or on
15:54
Speaker 1: his initial appeals, but those four your requests turned up
15:57
Speaker 1: the police reports, which eventually led to the the co defendants.
16:01
Speaker 1: This was the first time Leslie even knew about mister
16:05
Speaker 1: McCleary and mister Adams taking out the apartment building with
16:08
Speaker 1: mister Chester. This is when it finally made sense that
16:11
Speaker 1: they were witnesses to these three men who had gotten
16:13
Speaker 1: into the Yellow folkswagon that night.
16:16
Speaker 2: But what gives me is that when the vihkuus stopped,
16:20
Speaker 2: they lock up two people, they don't say nothing about
16:23
Speaker 2: this third dude. Then I start hearing because of me
16:27
Speaker 2: being a basketball player, being young people who used to
16:31
Speaker 2: live in that community that were in prison with me.
16:34
Speaker 2: But said man Joe Louis got a buddy, Bucky Nutt
16:39
Speaker 2: and Joe and Bucky Nutt are rat buddies. They was
16:42
Speaker 2: on charges together. A guy came to me in the
16:45
Speaker 2: Maryland House Correction and Jessa. He said, my half brother
16:50
Speaker 2: Bucky is the one that people mistake you for. So
16:54
Speaker 2: he started telling me about the robbery the girl that
16:58
Speaker 2: lived in the apartment bend them being outside the apartment
17:02
Speaker 2: waiting for the guy to come to make the delivery.
17:05
Speaker 2: Then he says, Bucky and them they had been doing
17:07
Speaker 2: this before. From what I was getting was the possibility
17:11
Speaker 2: that they were pretending that they were robbing people, and
17:14
Speaker 2: they probably took the delivery drivers money from him and
17:17
Speaker 2: they beat him out of it.
17:19
Speaker 1: It appears that not only was Joseph Chester potentially involved
17:22
Speaker 1: with his alliged assailants, but also something else made him
17:25
Speaker 1: both a disgusting human being and specially vulnerable to police coercion.
17:31
Speaker 2: Come to find out, he liked young girls, and one
17:34
Speaker 2: of the young girls that he really liked was a
17:36
Speaker 2: girl that my mother was friends with. Her mother. My
17:41
Speaker 2: mother said that she was in that lady's house playing
17:45
Speaker 2: cards on the weekend when the victim came in to
17:48
Speaker 2: make deliveries and they got into a confrontation. She told
17:52
Speaker 2: the ladies. She said, this is the man that said
17:54
Speaker 2: Leslie robbed him, and she was like, well, he messed
17:57
Speaker 2: with my daughter, Dina din know younger than Leslie.
18:02
Speaker 1: It appears there were multiple angles by which Joseph Chester's
18:05
Speaker 1: identification of Leslie could have been engineered, while Bucky Nutt
18:09
Speaker 1: aka Charles Parker was the actual third assailant. So while
18:13
Speaker 1: Leslie continued his fight, he was offered a work release
18:16
Speaker 1: program and a pathway to parole. In nineteen eighty two.
18:19
Speaker 2: They take me to pre release. It's in Balima City.
18:23
Speaker 2: They give me a push brum and they tell me
18:26
Speaker 2: to sweep from this.
18:28
Speaker 1: Corner all the way down.
18:31
Speaker 2: There to that corner right and I said, the officer
18:35
Speaker 2: gonna be with me. No, Leslie uent pre release. You
18:38
Speaker 2: ain't got worried about that no more. I couldn't wait
18:41
Speaker 2: till the morning, okay, a guy on the farm. I
18:44
Speaker 2: made a couple of phone calls and some people that
18:46
Speaker 2: I knew. I needed a bus ticket for New York.
18:50
Speaker 2: You understand, it was about eight thirty in the morning
18:53
Speaker 2: when they gave me that brum. They said they checked
18:55
Speaker 2: out there at twelve o'clock. They didn't see me they
18:58
Speaker 2: found that broom down there, lane up against the wall,
19:02
Speaker 2: and I was gone.
19:04
Speaker 1: So Leslie escaped, but before boarding a bust in New York,
19:08
Speaker 1: he made a stop in Baltimore.
19:11
Speaker 2: I went to where the fellow Joe Lord's sister lived there,
19:16
Speaker 2: and I explained to her that I was the kid
19:19
Speaker 2: that had gotten locked up for Bucky nutt Right. And
19:23
Speaker 2: she explains to me that Bucky was working with the police.
19:26
Speaker 2: He said, that's why they never locked him up. This
19:30
Speaker 2: woman sat and explaining some stuff to me. I said
19:32
Speaker 2: to myself, I don't know if I can believe everything
19:35
Speaker 2: this woman's saying, but everything she said to me proved
19:38
Speaker 2: factly because I checked everything.
19:41
Speaker 1: After a six month stint of freedom in New York,
19:43
Speaker 1: he was discovered when he returned to visit family in
19:46
Speaker 1: Baltimore for the holidays.
19:48
Speaker 2: I notified the state about the identification the problem, and
19:52
Speaker 2: all they take a year and a half to send
19:56
Speaker 2: somebody out to the victim, and he positively identify as
20:00
Speaker 2: a Bucky nutt Right, saying that the man on the
20:04
Speaker 2: picture even still had the same shirt on that he
20:08
Speaker 2: had on when they committed the robbery. So there's a
20:12
Speaker 2: new State's attorney in Baltimore that's just been elected, and
20:17
Speaker 2: everybody had high hopes that this man was an African
20:20
Speaker 2: American man and he would be more understanding of the
20:26
Speaker 2: racial issues that was faced with us all these years
20:29
Speaker 2: and all that His name was Kurt Smokes, right. I
20:32
Speaker 2: wrote him from the MARYW House Correction asking him to
20:36
Speaker 2: please take a look at my case. He wrote me
20:38
Speaker 2: back no. When the victim positively identified the photograph, then
20:46
Speaker 2: they contact me and said they would be willing to
20:49
Speaker 2: release me if I accepted a deal to plead no
20:52
Speaker 2: low contender to one count in exchange for just being released.
20:57
Speaker 2: I same, I'm not taking no deal. Man. Took them
21:00
Speaker 2: another year and a half for me to get out.
21:02
Speaker 1: Kurt Schmoke not only became the mayor of Baltimore, but
21:05
Speaker 1: then also the dean of Howard University Law School, followed
21:09
Speaker 1: by the president of the University of Baltimore and a
21:12
Speaker 1: part owner of the Baltimore Orioles. It's hard to square
21:14
Speaker 1: all of that with Leslie's experience, but nevertheless, Leslie was released.
21:20
Speaker 2: I got released October the seventeenth, nineteen eighty four, and
21:25
Speaker 2: before I even had to hear and I had written
21:29
Speaker 2: to the judge and told them about the deal that
21:31
Speaker 2: they tried to force me to accept. And they told
21:34
Speaker 2: me that the judge and Smokes was best friends and
21:37
Speaker 2: they were fraternity brothers, and if I didn't accept the deal,
21:42
Speaker 2: he was gonna have to judge dismiss my petition based
21:46
Speaker 2: on the original in court identification that was made by
21:49
Speaker 2: the victim. Then he threatened the victim and told him,
21:53
Speaker 2: if you don't say it was Leslie's, we're gonna charge
21:56
Speaker 2: you with perjury from your original in court out therefication.
22:16
Speaker 2: While in prison, I had been earning credits and all
22:19
Speaker 2: towards my bachelor's First I got my bachelor's degree in
22:23
Speaker 2: sociology from Tawson State University. I then got my certification
22:27
Speaker 2: as a prior legal right Now. In nineteen eighty six,
22:31
Speaker 2: I got a full unconditional pardon from Governor Harria Hughes.
22:35
Speaker 2: I got a court order that all records relating to
22:39
Speaker 2: that conviction was supposed to been destroyed. That was the
22:41
Speaker 2: first expansiment order. That was May of nineteen eighty six.
22:46
Speaker 2: The clerk of the court, when I tried to have
22:48
Speaker 2: them enforce it, he told me that he think the
22:52
Speaker 2: judge made a mistake and he wasn't putting no order through,
22:55
Speaker 2: so it sat dormant in their office. Everybody I went
22:59
Speaker 2: to get help in regard to it would never help me.
23:03
Speaker 1: And it appears that this one clerk's in action has
23:05
Speaker 1: repeatedly reared its ugly head multiple times throughout Lesley's life.
23:09
Speaker 1: But for now, there were other fights to win.
23:12
Speaker 2: You have to remember during that time, they didn't believe
23:15
Speaker 2: that ronful convictions happened. I petitioned the state for compensation.
23:21
Speaker 2: I had no alterney. I did interviews with the news
23:24
Speaker 2: media about what was going on and how I had
23:27
Speaker 2: been fighting with the state. I was able to get
23:29
Speaker 2: an agreement with the state that with the compensation, I
23:33
Speaker 2: supposed to god assistance with housing, education, employment. The only
23:38
Speaker 2: thing that they actually did was give me the monthly payments.
23:43
Speaker 2: I was paid a quarter million dollars over seven years
23:47
Speaker 2: by monthly checks. When I first got the first payment,
23:51
Speaker 2: I purchased a nineteen eighty seven Toyola Crest and I
23:57
Speaker 2: was going to my mom's house and it's restored, it
24:00
Speaker 2: sits there. I'll come back out the store and it's
24:04
Speaker 2: a guy propped up on the front of my car.
24:07
Speaker 2: I'm like, I ha, no chair, Yo, you got that twisted?
24:11
Speaker 2: He said, I'm Bucky Nutt. And I was like, sir, y'all,
24:16
Speaker 2: let me say something to you. As long as your
24:19
Speaker 2: butthole points to the ground. Don't you ever approached me?
24:22
Speaker 2: Don't you ever say nothing to me? Ever? And he
24:26
Speaker 2: was like, yo, I man, I ain't made no harm. Man,
24:29
Speaker 2: I was just introduced her. I said, I don't want
24:30
Speaker 2: to hear that shit about you introduce yourself to me.
24:32
Speaker 2: Don't you ever approach me?
24:35
Speaker 1: Leslie continued to try to put his wrongful conviction behind him.
24:38
Speaker 1: Things went well for a while. He worked for several
24:40
Speaker 1: different state agencies while receiving his monthly check while pursuing
24:44
Speaker 1: his record expungement, and in nineteen ninety eight, he believed
24:48
Speaker 1: he had finally been successful. Over those years, he also
24:51
Speaker 1: got married to a woman named Donna, which unfortunately brought
24:54
Speaker 1: him nothing but more heartache.
24:57
Speaker 2: After we got married, Donna had all kind of substance
25:02
Speaker 2: abuse problems. I tried to have her roll in different programs.
25:07
Speaker 2: She would disappeared. I wouldn't see her for months at
25:10
Speaker 2: a time. Come to find out her ex husband before me.
25:14
Speaker 2: She would go back to him and he would beat
25:17
Speaker 2: and bang on her. Then he would write up a
25:20
Speaker 2: report and submitted to the police for her right. She
25:25
Speaker 2: supposed he had made an accusation that she was stabbed
25:29
Speaker 2: by me, that I supposed that had pulled up on
25:32
Speaker 2: her and forced her to get into my vehicle and
25:35
Speaker 2: I tried to kidnap her. He would write up a report,
25:38
Speaker 2: they would take a charge out on me, and then
25:40
Speaker 2: she wouldn't come to court.
25:42
Speaker 1: And things went on this way unbeknownst to Leslie until
25:45
Speaker 1: two thousand and four.
25:46
Speaker 2: In two thousand and four, I was working for the
25:49
Speaker 2: Maryland Department of Labor licen Regulation as employment specialists, and
25:53
Speaker 2: I was doing extremely well. My first child was born
25:56
Speaker 2: in eighty eight and at that time I had a
25:59
Speaker 2: custody of forts I'll never forget. I went to work
26:02
Speaker 2: that morning the security officer told me that they did
26:05
Speaker 2: what they call a random check of my name. They said,
26:09
Speaker 2: it's a warrant for your arrest and the systems. So
26:12
Speaker 2: I'm like, hell right, I'm laughing cout. I know he
26:15
Speaker 2: got to be joking. He talked about Leslie Vasque got
26:18
Speaker 2: the old ward.
26:19
Speaker 1: It wasn't a joke. The charge was first degree attempted murder.
26:23
Speaker 2: And I voluntarily surrendered myself and went in there and
26:26
Speaker 2: people walked me in. Now I got before the court commission.
26:29
Speaker 2: She asked me, have you ever been convicted of a felony,
26:33
Speaker 2: mister Vasq, And I said no, could I haven't the
26:36
Speaker 2: wrong for Robbie conviction, but not show up. I got
26:39
Speaker 2: paperwork from the attorney general from the state of Mond
26:42
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight, said that he got ex funded
26:45
Speaker 2: all right, which was the fourth ex monthment order. Turned
26:49
Speaker 2: the computer screen around and told me, mister Vass, I'm sorry,
26:52
Speaker 2: but I can't release you on a ball because this
26:55
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five on Robbie is still on the records.
26:58
Speaker 2: And I pulled out the expungement order, the order from
27:01
Speaker 2: the Circuit court, saying that everything was done, the certificate
27:06
Speaker 2: of compliance, all of it. She said, mister asked, I understand,
27:10
Speaker 2: She said, I'm familiar with your case. I'm so sorry
27:13
Speaker 2: that I'm the one that has to do to She said,
27:16
Speaker 2: but because of the charge being what it is, a
27:19
Speaker 2: first degree attempted murder charge, we cannot release you on
27:24
Speaker 2: bail because you have this armed robby. I contact the
27:27
Speaker 2: Attorney General from the jail, the same one that's supposedly
27:32
Speaker 2: did the expungement in ninety eight. He actually represents Public
27:37
Speaker 2: Safety and Correctional Services here in the state of Month,
27:40
Speaker 2: which is the agency that dissimilates all criminal histories. He
27:45
Speaker 2: told me, oh, no, Leslie, that's not correct. We're gonna
27:49
Speaker 2: get that taken care of and then get you released
27:52
Speaker 2: and all this stuff, okay. He never accepted another call
27:56
Speaker 2: from me from the jail.
27:57
Speaker 1: Leslie awaited trial in jail for eighteen months, and with
28:01
Speaker 1: no one to care for his four minor children, they
28:03
Speaker 1: were placed in foster care. Luckily, he was able to
28:07
Speaker 1: beat the charges, but the nineteen seventy five wrongful conviction
28:10
Speaker 1: continued to wreck havoc in his life.
28:13
Speaker 2: After the acquittal, they opposed returning my children to me
28:17
Speaker 2: and took me two and a half years to get
28:20
Speaker 2: them back because they claimed I was an habitual criminal.
28:23
Speaker 2: And I'm saying, how can you use the same criminal
28:27
Speaker 2: history that you know was a wrongful conviction to claim
28:30
Speaker 2: that I'm an habitual criminal no matter where I go
28:33
Speaker 2: at and what I do. I've left Maryland, moved all
28:36
Speaker 2: the way to Tampa, Florida, Fayetteville, Georgia, I've lived in
28:40
Speaker 2: ox Nord California in twenty twenty, was working for an
28:45
Speaker 2: re entry organization, did a live scan and hit come
28:49
Speaker 2: the same wrongful conviction and you still bringing it up
28:53
Speaker 2: at the age of sixty six. Come on, something's wrong
28:56
Speaker 2: with this.
28:56
Speaker 1: But something positive did happen for all ex honer reason.
28:59
Speaker 1: Maryland twenty one, the Walter Lomas Act was passed, which
29:03
Speaker 1: meant a new avenue for compensation for Leslie.
29:06
Speaker 2: They awarded me five hundred and seventy seven thousand dollars
29:11
Speaker 2: two years ago, and on July the fourth, they honored
29:16
Speaker 2: me at the Waterfront Festival in Cherry Hill. When I
29:20
Speaker 2: met the Controller for the State of Maryland. Her name
29:23
Speaker 2: is Brooke Lureman explained her. I said, look, I said, Brooke,
29:26
Speaker 2: I said, I'm tired all. I've asked them correct their
29:30
Speaker 2: injustice that's been going on over these years that I've
29:33
Speaker 2: been sending y'all. She's aware, but she said to me
29:36
Speaker 2: that I need to make an appointment meet the.
29:38
Speaker 1: Governor and maybe he can't trust them to finally effectively
29:41
Speaker 1: expunge his record, but we really hope that someone finally
29:45
Speaker 1: gets it right.
29:45
Speaker 2: The lesson of all this man that I hope and
29:48
Speaker 2: played at all the other exetaries recognized that, make sure
29:52
Speaker 2: they check about these background histories, make sure that it's
29:56
Speaker 2: done the way it's supposed to. That means it has
29:58
Speaker 2: to be exam it from the FBI fouls also, and
30:04
Speaker 2: that might be something that a lot of John Reeves
30:06
Speaker 2: don't know.
30:07
Speaker 1: So an he calls to action for our audience.
30:11
Speaker 2: Call for actions for this voy Marcellus Williams. My blessings
30:15
Speaker 2: for him and prayers for his family.
30:17
Speaker 1: For those of you who aren't aware, an innocent man
30:20
Speaker 1: named Marcellus Williams is set to be executed on September
30:23
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, twenty twenty four, even though he has been
30:27
Speaker 1: excluded from every piece of physical evidence. The current Saint
30:32
Speaker 1: Louis prosecuting attorney Wesley Bell supports Marcellus's motion to vacate
30:37
Speaker 1: the conviction. Yes you heard that right, while Missouri Attorney
30:40
Speaker 1: General Andrew Bailey, on the other hand, has gone so
30:43
Speaker 1: far as to try to block recent exculpatory DNA evidence
30:47
Speaker 1: from being even heard in court. Marcellus and the Midwest
30:50
Speaker 1: Innocence Project desperately need our help, and we're going to
30:53
Speaker 1: link action steps in the episode description, and with that
30:56
Speaker 1: we turn now to my favorite part of the show,
30:59
Speaker 1: where I to have the privilege of thanking you again
31:03
Speaker 1: for being here and sharing your story. And now I'm
31:05
Speaker 1: just going to kick back in my chair, close my eyes,
31:08
Speaker 1: and you've just shared with us any other thoughts you
31:11
Speaker 1: may have.
31:13
Speaker 2: I hope this governor do what he says. That's it.
31:17
Speaker 2: There's nothing else that I can ask for. I want
31:19
Speaker 2: to be able to live. I'll be sixty seven, except
31:22
Speaker 2: telling my man. I want to be able to have peace,
31:26
Speaker 2: not just at night when I lay down and rest,
31:29
Speaker 2: but I want to have peace so that I can
31:31
Speaker 2: enjoy the remains of my days. I think I deserve that.
31:36
Speaker 2: I know I'm gonna have that. You can't never make
31:39
Speaker 2: me hold because of what happened, because you can put
31:43
Speaker 2: me to a point where I don't have to worry
31:45
Speaker 2: no more.
31:53
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can
31:55
Speaker 1: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts
31:58
Speaker 1: one week early and ed free subscribing to Lava for
32:01
Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our
32:04
Speaker 1: production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as
32:07
Speaker 1: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis and Jeff Clyburn.
32:11
Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time
32:14
Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us
32:17
Speaker 1: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and
32:20
Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram
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Speaker 1: at it's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of
32:26
Speaker 1: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number
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Speaker 1: one