Latest / RESHAPED / Episode 7: Adam Harris | From Addiction to Finding Jesus

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Episode 7: Adam Harris | From Addiction to Finding Jesus · RESHAPED

• Aaron: Hello, welcome back to Reshaped and today got a very special guest episode for you guys. have a conversation with my brother in Christ named Adam Harris. He became a Christian as part of our part of our church community for a while and he's a great guy, real estate agent, turned actor, and yeah, it's a really, really cool conversation. At the early on we get to talking about his his upbringing, his journey to Christ and and and what that whole journey was like. A big part of that was his battle with alcoholism and the the time that he spent in in AA and he's still part of AA because it's a big part of his his life and he talks about his sobriety and yeah, just a really, really yeah, really vulnerable and I really appreciate him talking about that. and we also talk a little bit about as Christians, how do we best support maybe other Christians or other people who might be suffering and battling with strong vices and addictions. So really cool to get his perspective on that as someone who's kind of gone through that and really battled through it. And so yeah, just a really, really great conversation. Really appreciate him talking about all of that. I I do want to clarify at the start when I do when we do the introductions and we're chatting a little bit, talking about the first time we met. So he actually originally sold a house to my parents many, many year many years ago. And that's the first time that that he met me. Now I don't remember meeting him. I didn't know that he sold the house to to to mom and dad. so the first time I thought I met him was when he came to church in like twenty twenty four, a couple of years ago. and s and so anyway, I kinda missed that. But he met me when I was younger. Anyway, anyway, that that kind of you'll see that at the start of the of the conversation. Anyway, it's a great conversation. Really appreciate his time and really appreciate his thoughts. So hope you guys get something out of it and enjoy the conversation. welcome back everyone to the Reshape podcast. I'm really, really excited for today. for those who don't know, this podcast is the the goal of the podcast is to bring Christian formation through thoughtful examination and conversation. And today, very, very excited for a conversation that we're about to have here with my my with this guest, I'll do a little quick intro and then he'll get into his story a little bit here in a second. but this guy His he's a Christian. again, he's my brother in Christ. And he we've known each other for a couple a couple of years now. It's pretty Adam: Yeah. Aaron: funny. He actually did sell a sell a house or sell a house to my old man and to our family. And we'll get into that a little bit. But anyway, he's a was a successful real estate agent. then after COVID, and I don't know if I'm getting the timing right here, but after COVID, he pivoted his career and and pursued an acting career, which is He's doing right now and he's involved with a lot of great things in his community. He's had some personal struggles and things that he's worked through, which I'm sure we'll get to talking about. But his journey is absolutely amazing and inspiring. I know we can definitely learn a lot from him. So without further ado, please welcome my brother, Adam Harris. Adam, clap clap. I'm putting some I'll Adam: Thank you, Aaron. Aaron: put some claps in the in the in the in the post edit here, bro. But thanks so much for joining me on the pod, man. How you Adam: No. Aaron: doing? Adam: I'm really, really well and thank you so much for the the introduction and yeah, I have known you a little little while now. I think you you're a lot younger when I Aaron: Yes. Adam: I I first came across you with Yeah, no, no with with with with your parents. but yeah, no, absolutely Aaron: Not that much younger. Yeah. Adam: blessed to to have reconnected later in in in life and and through Christ. it's yeah, Aaron: Amen. Adam: that that beautiful relationship and yeah, nothing nothing happens in God's world by mistake, so Aaron: Amen to that. That's so cool. I that's so cool, bro. I alright well I c we have to reminisce a little bit. Okay, so can you remember before you get into your story, so you which house did you sell to my obviously don't give the address, but do you remember what year it was? Which which which which sub members it was? Which house it was? Nun awarding. Okay. Yep. Nine awarding. Do you remember the year? Adam: Nada wading. Nutta Wadi. I remember Yeah. I remember he it was when was it was two thousand and fifteen. Aaron: Okay. Adam: I think. Two thousand and fifteen. Yeah, two thousand and fifteen. your dad Aaron: Okay. Two thousand fifteen. Adam: and I first got taught you through a through a a company I was working at at the time and and we became friends. and and and kept that conversation going. I think I'd I'd moved a couple of times in terms of agencies and yeah. we we we kept talking and and eventually he I got the phone call to say hey we're we're ready to rock and roll and it was dead Aaron: That's so funny. Adam: lucky enough to to yeah to to represent mum and dad and yeah it was it was a Aaron: Thank you. Adam: really good experience. I think it helped that it was a really good time in the in in the real estate market. But I know that it yeah, I I was there to to when he called me about the move to Ringwood East, which again, it's it's a very special place for me as well now. Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Adam: but back then I'd I would have had no idea that yeah what what what would be happening in the years to come. So Aaron: I know, crazy. Adam: Yeah, it was a it and and and like I said, e even out outside of real estate we we kept in contact after the sale and Aaron: Mm. Adam: yeah, it was di developed a really, really beautiful friendship. And yeah, so when I I came to church for the first time and you were up there preaching and I was sitting there like, okay, I I I think it kind of brought and I was thinking, Okay, you know what? I'm I'm meant to be here. So yeah, and I think Aaron: The funniest thing By yourself? Yeah, that's right. That's so funny. Adam: it I think mum and dad were the two of the first people to to welcome me at the door and yeah, it was straight away. It's like, hey Aaron: I know I I just couldn't believe I remember it was just so funny. Dad goes, It's who's who's is that? I think that's Adam. I was like, Who's Adam? 'Cause I didn't know, like I know, you know, you saw I didn't know Adam: Yeah. Aaron: you were the one who sold him the house and so he told me. And I go, What? That's crazy. That's crazy. And and yeah, like you said, man, I think God, God it's like Acts seventeen, like God has times and places and that's so cool that that it came around. So yeah. Adam: Yeah. a hundred hundred percent. Aaron: So funny man. And yeah, anyway, it that's that's such a cool that's such a cool thing that Adam: Ha ha. Aaron: happened. And they just laugh at it, you know. But hey, anyway, why don't we let's get let's get into a little bit of your story here and yeah bro, give I guess tell us a little bit about yourself, you know, your upbringing, some experiences, your journey to Christ, and what you what you're doing today. Feel free to go into as much or as little detail and I'll ask some questions maybe here and there. So yeah, feel free to go ahead. Adam: Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah, look, I I I certainly I I grew up in a a family w that look we're all baptized. I think mum and dad both went to private schools. so did I, like they were both I think they were Anglican. I I went to Whitefriars, which is a Catholic school. I wasn't raised Catholic, but but mum and dad saw the the benefit and and I guess they saw something in in religious education, like Catholic boys boys' school I went as I said, I went to Whitefriars. I always had a a belief that there was there was a God out there. I I didn't really get too much into to Bible study or understanding. I I probably mucked around a fair bit. It's so I wasn't wasn't the greatest student at school. yeah, yeah. Aaron: How we all? Well we all the boys. Adam: but but yeah, so I I I didn't really take take too much into it. and I yeah, I I I I but I I'd always sort of had this this faith. I'd I I don't know, I had this ongoing dialogue, I guess with God. and for me, and i if I'm brutally honest, a lot of it was negative. there was a lot of blaming God when things went wrong. and that that could be as as much as a something happened dramatically in my life or or me missing a a goal at football. Like i i it was Aaron: Right, right. Adam: if anything negative happened it was God's fault and If anything positive happened, it was me. Like I I I was the one running the show kind of thing. And Aaron: That's it. Adam: but it was always yeah, like I but I I just always remember growing up having having this dialogue. that yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Nah. Nah. Yeah, Aaron: So you believed in God, baby like you you definitely believed in God, right? So it wasn't a map yeah, you never had those doubts and that God definitely exists, but okay. Yeah, yeah, cool. Adam: so I and and and but I didn't r the relationship with God it it wasn't it was more a a transactional sort of thing. Like it's you're either like you're punishing Aaron: What you can give, what I can get, yeah. Adam: me for some reason or yeah, like whatever it is, like or like okay, come at me kind of thing. Like like I was this special important sort of person ki kind of thing that Aaron: Mm. Adam: that God just had it in for me or at at at periods of time in my life. And look I remember Yeah, vividly. As a I think ten, eleven year old kid I'd I'd be kicking kicking a ball or out out playing football and if I lost a a final or something something would take place, I'd I'd sit there and just be so angry at God that he he let that happen. And Aaron: Mm. Adam: I'd I'd I'd just anything negative happened in my life, I I was upset or angry with with God for for for letting it happen. I thought like what makes me so special to to think that that God's just there on my back and call. It's just like if I Aaron: Sure, sure. Adam: if I if I ask you to do something, you're gonna do it. And if you don't Aaron: Mm. Adam: do it, I'm angry about it. Like that was my relationship. Yeah. Aaron: That's interesting. Yeah. Ca d where do you think that came from? Like do you think that was from like was it just that maybe your understanding of God, how he was taught to you, was that, he's the one in control, so everything good, everything bad, it's it's on him. and s is that d is that where that came from or? Adam: Yeah, I I I guess so. That that that definitely yeah is is the most likely. Aaron: Yeah. Adam: I because like I said, I d I I wasn't we went to church very like we go at Christmas time, we go we go we go on the major, like my nan my Aaron: Classics. Yeah. Adam: nan we used to go to church every Sunday. Not that she's a really overly religious person, it was just that I think that age group, that's just what they did. Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Adam: And she had a friendship circle and and all of that kind of thing. So it was important for her and and she's someone that I yeah, she she was a big part of my life growing up. So I wanted to please her and and I guess so going to to church on Christmas Eve and sh not eating meat on good fry, like all of these different little little Christian sort of be tradition traditional Aaron: Yeah, traditions, so the classic tr yeah yeah. Adam: behaviour. that was it like yeah, w we we we took took part in that. But th that was really about the extent. it was there there was no constant daily prayer or like I I'd I I went to the church services if the school would hold them. We had mass, but I'd only go to the the mass like the whole school mass that we all had to be at and all of that kind of thing. But yeah, so but that would yeah, I I I guess it it was I don't know, maybe there there's a little bit of cr creativity in me as well, right from the the get go that that I had this idea like this all powerful being up inside my head that and it and and and to be honest that even though it was a negative sort of feeling for me, I have to say it's probably as close to my relationship now because I think I I veered for like God was everything back then, like it was good, bad, indifferent or whatever it was going, this conversation this this this ongoing conversation and I've come back to that, except it's been in a much more positive, positive mind for like understanding the trials and and under Aaron: Yeah, well. Mm. Adam: understanding the things that we're going through and the growth that that that happens from it. It's much more mature understanding of of that, even though I don't think any of any of us truly understand got like in always what God does and and why he does it. all Aaron: Yeah, it's true. Adam: we've got is scripture, all we've got is the Bible and and then we've got Jesus' teachings to to to give us a as best of understanding as we can take from all of that. Aaron: Mm. Adam: But I think it's for me it and it and and think this this was brought up really beautifully at at one of the w services that we we had on a Sunday where understanding it was a per like we're we're we're there to have a personal relationship with God and and I knew back then I had a per this personal relationship with God which was me like a spoilt brat of a kid like coming back Aaron: Mm-hmm. Adam: kind of a thing and and now it's it's changed but it's gone back to that. It's this personal relationship that I've built. that I I choose to nurture that's come full circle, I guess. Aaron: Well, yeah. Nah, it's amazing how it's all come back around here. Adam: Yeah. Aaron: Yeah. So you go from so you go through high school, s always b always believing God. No, there's never you go primary school, high school, always believing in God. Right? And then yeah. Adam: Except grade six I chose I went to a state state primary school and you could choose whether or not you did religion or not. And grade six I chose not to, but that was only 'cause I got to play I I got to play computer games during well, everyone I like I Aaron: R E, yeah, yeah, classic. okay. Adam: I I'd spent two years, I think grade four and grade five, watching my friends play computer games while I had to sit there and and do R E and Aaron: Yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm changing that in grade six. Yeah, I'm taking day let me take a year off. Yeah. Adam: And and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no wanna be part of this sort sort of thing. And yeah, and and and and maybe that's why bad things happen in life. Aaron: Ha ha Adam: So but no it that that was probably the only yeah. But no, like I I I I still believed. Like it it was Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Adam: still a belief. It was just me being s me being selfish again. Yeah. Aaron: Maybe the background. Yeah, been the background. Right. So y so you go and then through high school. So right for right. So you you believe in God. Still the same kind of I guess you could call it relationship in that kind of way with God. And then you get out of high sch high school. Do you go to uni to do do real estate? How do you get into real estate? Adam: Yeah. So yeah, no, look, I d this is where I I come back to the acting. I left school at the end of year eleven, Aaron: Right, okay. Adam: to become I don't know what I wanted to become like I I just wanted to get out of school and I I wasn't enjoying what I was doing. I I was doing a lot of certain subjects that I felt were gonna put me in the direction of being who I thought I wanted to be and And I remember I I got this job as a welder. and manual labour's not for me, man. Like it's Aaron: Yeah. Adam: it and and and I I worked that out pretty quickly and I sort of begged the school to let me come back the following year. And when I went back, I I chose to do film study and media and drama Aaron: okay. Adam: and theatre studies as as as my core subjects, including English. and I loved it. Like I I I loved and then so when when Aaron: Yeah, right. Adam: I left school I did uni and I s I started off doing like primary tea teaching, but it was all based around theatre study and performan performing arts. so that that sort of led to my and and my parents at the time weren't real particularly pleased that I was going down a direction that they didn't see as a real job. Aaron: Yeah, that the generation, hey, I mean fair enough. I mean I wouldn't see that. I'd say yeah, be the same thing, so yeah, yeah, of course. Adam: Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it it it's and it and and and and they couldn't be any more supportive now. Like their their support is Aaron: Mm. Times have changed, Yeah. Adam: huge. Like they they they're there at every single show. All of the stuff that I do, they're really interested, but but back then it was really yeah, it was just like no and it's like Yeah, get a real job. Yeah. Aaron: Yeah, it's it's engineer, doctor, like yeah, all the yeah, all the yeah the the the the c the careers with yeah, get a real job. That's it, get a real job, don't be cre yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's fair enough. Yeah, no what uni did you go to by the way? Vic uni, okay, cool. Yeah, okay, Adam: Don't be creative. Vic uni, so Victoria University in Foot School. Aaron: yeah, yeah. Adam: Yeah, and I yeah, so I I got into that and then yeah, I sort of I worked in hospitality and pubs and sort of led led me down the path that I I I went down for for for a period of time and sort of found myself at a crossroads at At twenty-four, twenty-five. a lot of my friends were finishing university degrees, or they were finishing their apprenticeships and and starting their own businesses. I think my brother was another he he he just started his plumbing business, he'd finished in his apprenticeship and he was started like everyone started to to look like they were sort of moving moving forward in their life and Aaron: And they laugh, Yeah. Yeah. Adam: And I'm sitting there going, geez, I'm still working in hospitality. And and that's not to say that there's any disrespect into to hospitality, but it's just not the way that I visioned where I was Aaron: Mm. Adam: going in my future. And I'm like, what what do I like, what am I gonna do? Like and I I'm like, I'll get into real estate. And d I fell into it and I I put a I think an application out and I got a job. and sort of I didn't leave for twelve years. Like it was Aaron: Yeah, wow. So wait, why did you do why did you do real estate? Like what made you go, let's let's do real estate? Adam: look, I I think I I as I said to you before, manual labour wasn't a a huge thing Aaron: Okay, yeah, so yeah. Adam: for me and and academic wise I I I struggled finishing degrees or course like I I I really struggled finishing what I started. Aaron: Right. Adam: and I I knew that real estate you only needed a week long course to do it. Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Adam: And and I I had the required skill, so I I was able to Aaron: Yeah, okay. Adam: To spin a yarn, I I won't it's I said I I was able to to talk rubbish Aaron: Yep. Y yeah, you can talk very well. Yeah, you can yeah, absolutely. Adam: and probably get people to like me in a in a a period like I I don't know, I I I was the gift of the gift of the gab. Yeah, but Aaron: Very likable guy, for sure. Hey, there you go. Adam: yeah, but bit bit more manipulative and we'll get into into like like I mean, I I I Aaron: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Adam: guess I I could talk the talk and yeah, kind of thing. But I yeah, I I think it suited me down to the T and Aaron: Sorry, so did you finish your degree or no? No. So how many years did you get in before you three years? Okay. Three of a four year degree? Or you did th Okay, yep. And then you Adam: No, no, no, no. Didn't finish three. Three years. Yeah. Forty degree. Yeah, I didn't didn't finish it. I yeah, I jumped into real estate Aaron: And then jumped into real estate. Yeah. Adam: and yeah, look I I I got pretty successful really quickly. I look I did my penance. I worked under a a really successful agent who had sort of gone good done his time as an assistant and I I was an assistant to him learning the ropes and probably spent a couple of years doing probably two, two and a half years doing that. and then decided to go out on my own. And and within I think within twelve months I had a a team of four or five people. I yeah and I'd I look I I finished top s salesperson for my office, probably six, seven years Aaron: Yeah, wow. Adam: running, up there in the the top agent in the company. I think I had a couple of awards for rising star top top ten agents under under thirty in Victoria. Like I things were moving really, really quickly. and Aaron: Wow. Yeah. Yep. Adam: I, yeah, financially I was flying, I think I I got married in that time. I'd purchased a couple of properties. but I was also sort of yeah, going down like my ego had become completely out of control. Like that I guess thinking back to the the the whole the the the f the the more I believed in my my own powers and Aaron: Abilities, yeah. Adam: and and and my own abilities to and and and that none of this was God given. It was all me just Aaron: Mm. Adam: orchestrating and creating. I guess I just got further and further and further away from from that innate feeling inside of me that that that these skills and these the these things that I had were God given and Aaron: Mm. Adam: And I forgot that and I forgot that really, really quickly. and I've I fell down sort of a a a dark road with that ego. Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Adam: and that ego carried me the the the same ego that had carried me to success and to to this sort of self will of willing myself to be the best or successful and and this champion that I thought that I was, the the more that I succeeded in this material world and this sort of sales sort of world, like the more attention that I got, the more people people want to be around, like people are drawn to you Aaron: Yeah. Adam: when when this this this success and and and I I noticed that and and I think I became a far too big for my boots and and things started slowly not slow, it sort of started off slowly, unraveling and and and then momentum's picked up and and things started getting a bit out of control and and that's Aaron: Mm. Adam: where all the the addiction and and Aaron: Yeah. Adam: and alcoholism sort of took took a hold of me. So Aaron: Mm. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, and yeah, definitely we're gonna get to talking about that for sure. So I g so you just for context, so you went f what age did you start off in? Twenty three in real estate? Adam: In real estate, but I think twenty four. I was twenty four and thirty Aaron: Twenty four. And so you in real estate from twenty four till how many years was in real estate? Adam: old thirty three. I don't know, thirty thirty four, yeah, thirty four, maybe, thirty five. Yeah, yeah. Aaron: thirty three, so so nine nine ten years. Nine or ten years. Yep. And then you you were married in that point too at at how old are you then? Around late twenties or something? Twenty seventeen. Okay. Adam: Yeah, I I was married in twenty twenty seventeen. Yeah. Aaron: Yep. Yep. So married and then and then is it towards the end of that kind of ten years being in real estate that things started to get bad or was it kind of gradual Adam: Yeah. Well look th I I was I was separated in twenty eighteen. So that that and look looking back at it now, I think you look at the Ten Commandments and I think the only only commandment that I didn't sort of touch on was probably murder. Like I I I and and and I'm I Aaron: Sure. Adam: shouldn't I'm not not not having that as a giggle or anything like that. It was just that was the person that I'd become. Aaron: Mm. Adam: in in that period of time and and I found myself that far separated from from God I guess. not that again there was no anger towards him, but I I'd just got that delirious with my own self importance Aaron: Mm. Adam: and I guess self sh selfish self centeredness that that I I I developed and and created this character rather than the the person that I I truly was and Aaron: That you actually are, yeah. Adam: at at my core and I I found that yeah, I I had multiple relationships in in that time. each one I burnt to the ground through yeah, through choices and and behaviour and I I just I had no idea how to do life. Like I'd I I had this I I was I think the the the the thing that I I had gr the thing that made me a man was was being able to provide or or or earn an income. That was it. That was that was the only thing that I brought to the table. The only Aaron: Make money, make the sales, yeah. Success. Yeah, success, right? Yeah. Adam: thing that I could ride success on was the fact that I was able to to provide and And then it got to the point where I couldn't do that anymore. Like I I was Yeah. Aaron: Yeah, it's almost like your identity was so is like yeah, if you're if I'm wrong, but like it sounds like identity was wrapped up in in that, yeah, the sales, success, all those kinds of things. And when that begins to deteriorate, then it's it is that question of okay, wait, who wait, who am I? And then what what am I doing? And Adam: Yeah. Yeah. Aaron: yeah. So so would it be safe to say God wasn't really in the picture like Adam: Yeah. Aaron: like maybe you still believed in him, but in like nothing. Adam: yeah. Aaron: Like not going to church, not trying to do anything okay. Adam: No, and I don't that that that conversation dried up. That conversation Aaron: Yeah. Wow. Okay. Adam: dried up and I wasn't yeah, I d I was I was no longer in a relationship with God. Like I Aaron: Mm. Adam: and that that wasn't I I think we we hear that I've I've lost God or God God I I I lost God for it. We don't lose God or anything like God's always there. Aaron: But you lose sight of him, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Hmm. Adam: You know, like God's God's always there. It's just the fact that I'd turn my back. and I didn't do it deliberately. Like I but but it it it it was what what it was and yeah, I I I guess it it was scared like it it was scary. But Aaron: Mm. Adam: as God does there was there was ups, there was downs, and but all of them I guess led to finding finding my way Aaron: Yeah. Adam: back and and I've got to say amen to that. Like I I Aaron: That's so. Adam: I've gotta be absolutely grateful that that the trials and tribulations that that I had to go through Aaron: Mm. Adam: to get me back to the point where where that relationship was was able to to yeah, to to to be re sparked. So Aaron: Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited to talk about that part too. So so now you so of course we've already touched on like your sobriety and and alcoholism Adam: Mm-hmm. Aaron: was something that was a big, big struggle. and of course feel free to talk about as much or as little as you want with this. Adam: Yeah. Aaron: but how did you start off? 'Cause you're part of Alcohol is Anonymous and AA and Adam: Yeah. Aaron: that's been a big part of your journey too and and all of that. So when did it start getting bad and then kinda how did you then move into Find that community. and then how does Jesus then come into that into that story? of course God's always Adam: Yeah. Aaron: working, but yeah, how did that whole that whole order kind of happen? Adam: Yeah, okay. Aaron: Yeah. Adam: That's a that's a great question. Look, I after it like I'd I probably say it started off and and I won't mention names, but Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Adam: I got into a relationship with with a a lady twenty twenty sort of thing. The it's a round about covert time and Aaron: Mm. Adam: and I'd been in and out of of romantic relationships after my marriage and subsequent divorce. and I just treated them all the same as as the and and needless to say they didn't work out. Things things wouldn't work out and I'd I hadn't changed. I'd found no reason to change or or anything and and I met this girl and And all of a sudden I fell in love and I I wanted to change things. She's got two kids and I quickly realized that I certainly wasn't at the time the man that I needed to be to hold a relationship like this, to be a role model for kids that were just about to enter their their teen teen years. And I had to do something really drastically and really quickly if if I was gonna keep this relationship. and and look I I I tried. I I I really, really did try and change who I was and and and I went through stages of sobriety and I did did a lot of work tried to do a lot of work on myself. this is and this is without coming back to Christ or or coming back to God. and and worked tirelessly and and was exhausted. But when things weren't working out or things weren't going my way, I'd I'd sort of find myself going back to drugs and alcohol, which didn't do any favours. They pr they they they sent things backwards and Aaron: Yeah. Adam: and I'd I burnt that relationship multipli like we'd get back together and break up and get back together and break up. But it was this roller coaster of this relationship that that carried on for a period of time. And there was lots of things that I did in that relationship that I I absolutely regret. but we always found a way back to each other and and I I just felt this sense and and I'll talk about that that that Christ was somewhere in there Aaron: Mm. Adam: and and could tell that that that love that I felt was genuine like that it was a genuine that I just wanted to be better for this person and for these people. And it it it led me to to our la w with with our last breakout to to get to Alcoholics Anonymous because I I Aaron: Mm. Adam: just could not see these people out of my life and I knew that I needed to do something and and and I'd make all my poor choices in life when I was drinking or or on drugs Aaron: Yeah. Adam: and and the only way that I could guarantee my behaviour, was to to go to recovery. And yeah. Aaron: Mm. So wh sorry, sorry to cut you off. What what so what's that timeline like? So the struggle and then like when it started getting Yep. And Adam: Twenty twenty two. Twenty twenty two was like my my sobriety date is May May the ninth, twenty twenty two. And and that that date I'd I received a bunch of messages from from her breaking up with me. and said I I can't in terms of can't do this and Aaron: Mm. Adam: and I woke up that morning at absolute rock bottom. Like I I for for so many years I'd looked at myself in the mirror and I thought I like I th I'm this Superman type guy that I can get come back from anything. I I I've I've always got a comeback. yeah, I w whether it be a relationship, whether it be a business, whether it be financially, whatever it is I can come back from. Like I I've I got my back against the wall, I can come back from this and and that morning for the first time in my life I had a pit in my stomach that I I I y I you can't come back from this. Like it's y y you're you're y y you're gone and I I I spent f I think the first forty forty odd days of my sobriety cutting out the world. I think I was like hiking for for weeks, not going to work, not answering calls from family, not just just c cut myself completely off from the world. And I found myself forty two days sober at a cafe round the corner from my house and a member from from recovery that I I I know, he he he walked into that cafe that day and he looked at me and we s sort of said good day and had a chat and at the top I I'd been sort of on social media posting all sorts of i inspirational quotes trying to make gee myself up, trying to make myself feel better or think of that I'm doing well in life and Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Adam: he and he told me, he goes, look, I've seen you I've seen your posts on on Facebook or Instagram or wherever he'd he'd seen them and and I I thought he was gonna ask me for some life advice and he he looked me square in the eye and he said, Mate, you're sick. You're a sick man. you're not well and It hurt, but I it was true. It Aaron: Yeah, that must have been hard here. Yeah. Adam: was I was I was spiritually sick. I had a spir spiritual malady that was cutting me off from any form of reality and I'd I'd found myself so far away from the little boy that that was inside of me that that had this this hope and and faith and and trust in in himself and and in the world and and in and in God. and I I just created this ridiculous shell of a a character. Aaron: Yeah. Adam: and and the gig was up. And from that moment I I went into recovery and and and began the process of swallowing and and digesting some some real hard truths about myself, understanding myself on a on a much deeper level. But Most importantly I I undertook a a rigorous program of of honesty and I had to to be truly honest with myself, with my sponsor, Aaron: Mm-hmm. Adam: and and and most importantly with my creator. And Aaron: Mm. Adam: and that is where I started and and this is interesting. I I went to my first meeting and I walked into a room and men's meeting, it's twenty five guys in a room and I I got told we all got on our knees and we held hands and and they wanted to pray. And I remember looking around the room and going This is not for me. Nah. No. I nah. I don't know what this is all about. And Aaron: Yeah, it's like mate. Am I back in high school? What are we doing? I'm like, yeah, that's it. Yeah, wow, that would have been so yeah. Adam: and I wasn't interested. And I said, look, I I believe in God, but you can you can keep that Jesus stuff. Like I I don't want a bar of it. Yeah. And Aaron: Coming for you, Burris. Jesus is coming for you. Adam: I remember walking out and I I don't think I was g ever gonna come back to to that meeting and a a good friend of mine now, I knew I'd I I saw him, he he had about eight months of of sobriety up and he he'd lost a lot. He'd lost his partner, he'd lost his kids and Eight months later he he he'd worked his his life started getting back on track and and he was looking he was glowing and he Aaron: Awesome. Adam: his family had come back into his life and and he's looked me square in the eye and he's like, I look I I know where you're going. I know what you're doing. I don't know what's going on. I I don't know how this works. but I'm just doing as I'm told. I'm trusting that there's something out there looking over me. And whatever's going on, it's working. And for some reason I tr I trusted him. Like I didn't trust this twenty five guys sitting there praying in the middle of a room and but Aaron: Yeah, sure. Adam: this this one guy that looked me square in the eye and said there's something out there that's looking after me right now, it's because I'm doing I'm I'm I'm trying to become better and I'm trying to do and for some like I said, for some reason I I decided to to trust and and continue to to come back into those rooms. And yeah, I I started listening. the I started listening to to the work and and understanding and and trying to develop this relationship with my creator, with God. I still hadn't come to any Christ like I I I for some reason I felt that they were separated. Like I I had this separate thought, like God's God and and Jesus is this religious this this heavy religious kind of thing and and it's because Aaron: Jesus, Jesus, yeah. Yeah. Adam: six years of Catholic education I I never once sat there to listen to the story of Jesus Christ. So I didn't know what was going on kind of thing. and Aaron: Yeah, sure. Sure, sure. Yeah. Adam: little by little I I started hearing like I started seeing little scriptures pop up on social media or guys in the in the rooms would that that that did have an affiliation with the church started sort of sharing some of their their their scripture and about eight months, nine months into to my sobriety join journey, my my partner c came back into my life and She during that during our time of separation she'd been listening to Light FM. she's not a religious person, but she'd started as a Christian radio station. Aaron: Mm. Yeah. And that's a Christian for those who don't know, that's a Christian Christian radio station. Yeah, here in Melbourne. Yeah. Adam: and she started listening to it and she sent me a message just saying, Hey, like I this is this really helped me and when when we were broken up. Aaron: Wow. Adam: and I like I maybe it it can help you and and look, that relationship I was still very early days of sobriety. It it didn't it it it didn't last. and we we broke up. But I look I I s I I don't know, I I I still had hope and faith that that her and I might might work things out one day and God willing, who knows, I I still probably think about that to this day. But Aaron: Mm, sure. And that's twenty twenty is that still twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three? Yep, yep, yep. After being yep. Adam: I decided to con this is twenty twenty three and I decided to continue to listen to Lightfm and that really drove me to to start asking some more questions and and start thinking about this Aaron: Mm. Adam: faith journey and and hearing Bible verse like five verse of the day, started with verse of Aaron: Yeah yeah. Adam: the day and And then I get right into to gospel music and really start feeling this this spirit within me lifting and and understanding that there might be hope out there and and then I connected, reconnected with a a mutual friend of ours, Connor. and Aaron: Yep, yep, yep. Shout out. Adam: Connor, yeah, he he he look he he's he's a real estate salesman as well. So he's when he's when when wanted to start talking about faith, his eyes lit up and he's like, Yeah, well Aaron: He's on, he's on. Yeah. Incredible conviction. Yeah. Love that guy, man. Adam: We're kinda Let's have let's have a chat. and I'm like, okay. So I started talking to him and he's g he's all excited about that because yeah, he's like, look, I you gotta get into this. Like you like I I've I I've got the Bible app on my phone and and I'm doing ninety and ninety, like this this n ninety days of ninety days of the New Testament Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These challenges, things, yeah. Adam: and I'm like, Okay, cool, I'll So I'd spent n like I think ninety days in a row. I went to the gym. I went and sat in the sauna so no one would hear me or no one like I I didn't have anyone else around to do it. And it was like I was being naughty. Like I I had the Bible Aaron: Ha ha ha. Adam: going in and listening to the New Testament on on my phone and I did the ninety days and I rang him up and he's like, Yeah, awesome, like great, great job and and I learnt so much about Jesus and I'm like I wanna I wanna start Aaron: Mm. Adam: start exploring this. He's like, Well Great news. Like I've I've started going to a church and and and look at it's in Corfield, so it's a little bit of a while away, but but every fifth if if if if one of the months of the year has got a like five weeks in it, we we catch up in North Ringwood, which is like like 300 metres from my house. Yeah. And Aaron: Yeah, yeah. There you go. Come on, man. Yeah, yeah, that's the one. Adam: and I'm like, Yeah, cool, cool, cool, cool. Like, okay, and and he's like, Well We're actually this Sunday, like come come down and I'm like, Okay, so I yeah, I'm I'm come down a service and and I've walked Aaron: And that's the s that's the one. That's the service where we ran into dad and that's they go. Adam: walked in the door and I'm like Aaron, he he seems very he's very familiar and and then Aaron: Ha ha ha. Adam: I put two and two together when I saw your dad. Like your dad's wore Aaron: Yeah. Adam: like he was one of the first y y your mum and your dad, sorry, when when at first and I'm like, Wow like That's where I know you from. No, you can't. And Aaron: Can't make it up man. You just can't make it up bro, like you can't just make this stuff up. Adam: and he's like this this big hug. Like it was just like I and I hadn't seen like we'd we'd we'd it was like I'd hadn't I'd seen him yesterday, sort of thing. Like Aaron: Wow. Yeah. Adam: it was it was really beautiful and I knew that I was in the right place, you know, like and yeah, so I I I I started coming to Church and and not only coming to North like the North Ringwood. I I made my way to to Corfield and and started doing some some Bible study with Mike, Aaron: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Adam: which was which is unreal. I gave us it it it lit up the Bible even more. Like it it it helped me understand more of why why I was there and and and and who God was and who who God is, sorry, like Aaron: Mm. Adam: but but most in probably most importantly helped me develop that relationship with Jesus that I said that I'd Aaron: Amen. Adam: I'd I'd I like separated from from Aaron: Yeah. Adam: God and understood that they were the s like not the same but the same. You know you know where I'm coming from. Like it's they're together and Aaron: Yep. Yep. Yeah. He's God. Yes, absolutely. He's God. Yes. Hmm. Adam: and that that that made sense for me. And and look, this is probably where it starts to get a bit spook. Like I know, I I it all happened pretty quickly. there'd been a couple of sort of half discussions around people get baptized, I'd heard people get baptized and and Aaron: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Adam: everyone gets up and claps and all this kind of thing and and Mike sort of made a comment. He's like, Look, you've you've gone through this like you read like you want to get baptized. And I'm like, Yeah. Like it it Why not? Like you know not not not really not really thinking about it, man. And Aaron: yes, I remember the story, of course. Yes, yes, yes. Adam: I'm like, okay, cool. And because I'm full of self will, I I I wanted this perfect day and and remember organizing it was Elwood Beach to go to Elwood Aaron: Do I d yes. Adam: Beach and people were gonna come and like have this immersive experience in the middle of the ocean and nature and And it was like, I don't know, it was gonna be like Baywatch sort of thing coming out of the ocean and everything was, you know Wow, and Aaron: Yeah, the dream. The dream. Yeah, yeah, the dream baptism. Picturesque. Yes, yes, yes. Adam: and look, God had other plans that day and and we went into church that morning and and a c I think a day or two earlier I'd I got a c and something happened, something came up for Mike that he wasn't gonna be able to to be there. And that was one. And then Aaron: Mm. Adam: we've gone into church and it's sunny and it's a nice day and like thinking about the beach and Elwood Beach and and then while we're in church halfway through the service, just the thunder and lightning and rain starts pelting down. Aaron: Yeah, like I click like never before. I yes. Adam: And and I'm like, wow, okay. So but probably not gonna happen today. And and then and then you Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Adam: you kindly suggested, Hey, look, we we'll it's happened before, but mum and dad have have invited you to do it at their house. And I'm like, okay, the the spa and and I'm like, and then no. So I'm I'm I'm getting I'm getting all Aaron: Yeah in the spa, right? Yeah. Not the picturesque thing I wanted, does he? Adam: and then I'm sitting there, I'm having this conversation with God. I'm like, seriously, you're telling it like you don't want me. Like you you clearly it's not meant to be. I'm not gonna and then Aaron: Yeah, it's not meant to be. It's not meant to be right now. It's you don't Yeah, of course. Adam: and then I was getting well, I'm like they they wanna baptize they wanna they're they're they're they're they're getting me to do this and nah it's pushing me too early and all of this Aaron: Mm. Doesn't feel yeah. Adam: kind. And I remember ringing a a a a really dear friend of mine who's who's also Christian and she's gone through the same process as I have, but she's got 34 years of sobriety up and I needed to speak to someone outside of the church, but in like saying that she was part of the church, but I just said, can we qu we talk? And she's like, Yeah. And it's interesting because I'd pulled up on the side of the road, but I was on Karma Street. Like it was just and I'm like I'm like kind Aaron: Ha ha ha Adam: of kind of thing and it's still lightning and and thunder and and I'm explaining my situation and she's like Do you trust him? Do you trust? And and I said, yeah, well, yeah, yeah. This is this is talking about God. And Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Adam: and she's like, Well, maybe maybe this is about control. Like, have you really let go? Like, let go Aaron: Oof. Adam: and and and trusted that everything's gonna be okay and trust God in the storm. because this perfect Aaron: Wow, yeah. Adam: expectation that you had. Of how things were gonna be and how it was all gonna go isn't happening. And maybe he's asking you to to just let go and trust him that everything's gonna be okay and you need to do this. And I had a bit of a cry and I yeah, I think I I texted you and said, Cool, I'm I'm on my way. I'm on my way. I'm back on board. I'm I'm back on board and Aaron: Wow. Wow. Wow. Adam: Yeah, I I I I got down to to Ringwood East and yeah, you Aaron: We did it, bro. Adam: yours truly, yeah, twelfth of Aaron: As awesome. Adam: twelfth of January twenty twenty five. And Aaron: Come on, man. That's amazing. Adam: and I've just been all in sin like a like all in Aaron: Yes. Praise God. Adam: look, I I have my days I've I've had days after that where I've got angry and I've been crying and and yelling and screaming and And all these emotions that are coming up and and but I've been on a journey like this this this journey and and over that period of time God has like it's almost like he shined a light on the dust. Like I've got all this dust inside of me and and and all that all the the struggles that I face I I I pray and and ask to to see where dust has collected inside of me and and he does, he shows me. He shows me where that dust is collected and and and he's he's made it okay for me to to to not shame myself for it either. Like Aaron: Mm. Adam: I I've got all this stuff inside of me that that I need to I need to clear. And as like I I was cleared, I was I was baptized and I was the water washed over me and all that kind of thing, but but I still learn things about myself that I need to improve and I need to work on and each and every one of those things is what's blocking me off from the sunlight of the spirit and and all he's doing is exposing them to me and through people, through situations, through things all the time. And I'm grateful for these trials, I'm grateful for these bumps in the road, I'm grateful for these these these challenging times because all of them reveal something about me. And and Aaron: Mm. Adam: I never used to think like that. I just I just used to blame Aaron: The spirit man. Adam: and get angry and and and upset. And now it's it's just beautiful. It's like, okay, here you go. He's he's a he's a he's a frustrating person that I'm gonna put into your life and you're gonna love the you want you want love, then then I'm gonna show you love through frustration. And it's like, well, okay, I'm Aaron: Yeah. Adam: gonna pray for this person. I'm gonna love this person and and and I can love them from a distance or I can love them in the coal face or whatever it is or whatever it requires from me. but I start that I I I have that conversation through prayer. And and prayers always differ. Like my prayer isn't the same as everyone else's like My prayer is this this the the moment that I get out of bed to the to the moment that I go to sleep. it's just it's just a conversation. Like it's like you and I talking right now. That's how I talk to Aaron: I love that. That's so good. Adam: to God. And it's yeah, like I it I'm I'm answered in in as long as I'm patient, as long as I wait, as long as I I don't act on my own will. Aaron: Mm. Adam: again God God tells us to move sometimes and I move. God's silent and I know that that in God's silence I'm not meant to move. I'm not meant to act and I'm not yeah, I I I can I I I can find a sermon in that and and I can find that that the answers will come and and and I think the verse of the day that's on the Bible app today is you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. Aaron: Come on. Yeah. So good. Adam: eight thirty two and it's a huge one for like it's it's a massive one for me and and look I my my routine and my I guess my prayer and meditation life has has developed and grown and over the the time but I start like I I I can't I do not start my day without forty five minutes at least like in the morning. I'm on my knees. As soon as my eyes what like open my eyes, I'm on my knees, I'm praying. Aaron: Wow. Adam: I'm breathing, and that that lasts, that's a routine that that I won't give up for for anything. I'm I don't have children, so I don't I I I I I know that that might be difficult or or a difficult thing, but I've got that time and peace in the morning that No matter what happens in my day, I I start my day in prayer and meditation. and it's like I'm putting on the full armor of of of Christ. Like it it just goes Aaron: Mm. Adam: over the top of me and and I can I can get through any challenge that I'm faced with through the day if I do that. And and I've learned, yeah, that that that God reveals himself to me all the time when I do that. Aaron: That's so good. That's so yeah. Adam: right throughout the day and it's and it's this this sacred relationship that I've been able to build and and it's just hey God's been there the whole time. Like it's just he's Aaron: Mm. Adam: just been keeping the door open. He's keeping my spot warm. And Aaron: Yeah, that's it. Adam: all these challenges all all led like it that they I saw his fingerprints in all of them. You know, like beautiful. So so sorry if I went on a bit of a tangent or Aaron: amazing. Yeah, I it's no bro. No, this is what this is about. This is what it's about, bro. It's listening to the story and seeing I love cause it's like hindsight's twenty twenty, right? Like you look back and you go, God was there the whole time. Like you're not thinking that when you're Adam: whole time. Aaron: when you're in uni and you you like, I'm doing this course, okay. You're not thinking that when you're in real estate and you're doing being really successful. You're not thinking about that when you're battling to be sober. Like you're not thinking about that. But as you get there and you become a Christian. And it's almost like even in that I remember going through that with you that last day of is this meant to be am I meant to get baptized today? What's gonna happen? But I love the fact that you call this person, again good friend, Christian as well, who knows you and just says and and says, Do you want to I just trust him? Which is goes all the way back to the thing that you were saying that you struggle with at the start because it's you you know it's all you love your willpower. You love the being in control, you Adam: Yeah. Aaron: love being successful, you love it's all on you. But now it's like God saying Do you really trust me like do you really trust me? Do you really trust me? And it all the way up to that last moment, you know, it's like he knew and and he knew you'd be fine too. And but I really love that man, just the yeah, it's just how God works through all of that. And I really love what you said too, that it's not just like you're continuing to grow. Like that and that's in you know, we call that in Protestant we like in as Christians, we call that sanct sanctification. So the idea of Every single day being shaped and molded into the likeness of Jesus, Adam: Yes. Aaron: into the likeness of Christ every single day. that's a big part of this pod. Like what I want to do is learn how to do that from other people. and just that's a great thing. That you we're not c we're not done. We're not done once we make the decision to walk with Jesus. It's an everyday thing. We're always changing, always growing, always transforming, and it's about holding on Adam: Every day. Aaron: to him tight. And I love that, man. That's s really convicting. Forty-five minutes and you're on your knees and you're talking to God in the morning, that that Adam: Every every day. Aaron: That convicts me, bro, 'cause that I'm not doing that. Like I'm not doing it like that. And not that I have to do it exactly like that, but I the devotion I think I think what I see in you is it reminds you of I don't know if the woman in in Luke in Luke seven, you know, where G where she's the the sin you know, she's a sinful woman, she's a you know, probably a prostitute and and she's at Jesus' feet, like like just crying at his feet, wiping his wiping Jesus' feet with her her hair and she's so just broken. And there's the Pharisee who kind of looks down and goes, Why would Jesus let this woman touch him? Like she she she Adam: Okay. Aaron: he should know that she's a sinner, that she's and then, you know, Jesus tells a parable, right? Like the the two people who owe a lot of money, one owes a lot, one owes a little, and Jesus says Jesus says that the moneylender forgives both, and then says, Which one would love him more? And it's it's the one who has the bigger debt forgiven, you know, and and Adam: And there's a shop. That's the biggest I can get. Aaron: what I see in you is is that that just like you know just how much God has saved you from and Jesus saved you from and the gratitude that flows out of your life, bro, like what you're doing and how you're living your life every day. I mean when we got on this before we started even recording, you're just like, man, yeah, just God's good, man. He's working in my life and I'm so great. It's just like you're always seeing that. And I think that's that's something that I've got to do a lot. 'Cause I think I can get so focused on, yeah, just my day to day. All right, what am I doing today? What am doing here? Okay, good, gotta get to this thing, get the kids ready, go to work, do this thing. But seeing God's in it all, always working no matter what, is is something that's amazing. So But I really appreciate you sharing that, man. There's so many things I'm sure we could talk about with that in that story all Adam: Thank you. Aaron: of itself. But I really appreciate you being being open about that. but I d I do wanna quickly we'll see here we go, but just talk about like I guess from the Christian perspective now, like what you've known now in terms of addiction, like alcoholism, and it might be like someone listening might be struggling maybe with with alcohol, might be drugs, might be pornography. I don't know, it could be something. What's something that maybe is helpful for a someone like like me, if I wanted to help you or if I wanted to help that struggling person, my brother or sister who's struggling Adam: Yeah. Aaron: with addiction, what are some things that you might advise going through it yourself and, you know, yeah, just that things that could be helpful to think about. Adam: Yeah. I think knowing or just just being be understanding that God hasn't gone anywhere. You know, like like I I tend to find and and we go I go any anyone that I know that's struggled with addiction of any any scent doesn't need to be drugs, doesn't mean like you mentioned porn pornography or or whatever it is. they're generally seeking something that they're seeking something outside themselves to make themselves feel comfortable and comfortable with with the w world. for me, I I I I work with other other alcoholics, I work with other addicts and I've my big thing to them is just having having a willingness to ask. ask ask for help. no and and and and it doesn't need to be like it's so personal and so intimate, God. Like just go like literally go like start putting the prayer, help me. If you're out there, help me. Help me. And I I haven't come across someone that's honestly gone out and got on their knees. And asked for help privately, privately between them and God, that hasn't come to me the following day or the or the or or that same day and said that they have not felt a warm level of peace just coming over the top of them. It might sound Aaron: Yeah. Adam: simple, it might sound whatever, but I've every single person that I have challenged to go away and do that has str has found Christian non that most Aaron: Christian or not Christian, right? You Yeah, yeah. Adam: of the people that I work with are non-Christian. Straight like and they become Christian. and that's not Aaron: Wow, okay. Yeah. Wow, come on. Adam: because I've converted them or anything like that. It's that they they've they've found the same thing that I've found. That God's fo God has been the only one that's stuck by them in rock fr at rock bottom. You know, like you're in that slimy pit. You know, you you you you're r right at the bottom of the the the pillar and no one wants to be around you and asking that question, can you help me? You don't need to be eloquent. There might be some Aaron: That's a point. Adam: profanity or swearing involved in that, depending in terms of but but it's Aaron: Honesty, honesty. Mm. Adam: just honesty and and it and and it is an honest and willing desire to seek the Lord and your creator Aaron: Yeah. Adam: and it's works. It just works and and and it's a hundred percent. Aaron: Yeah. That's that's such a g that' such a sorry, that that's that's a good that's such a good point, bro, 'cause I I think peop I think sometimes we get too much into the strategy of how to overcome a a thing. Like it might be f an addiction, a sin, what you know, we try to have all this strategy, right? Like, do what you know, have this plan in place, Adam: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Aaron: like schedule this, schedule that and I I'm not against strategy. I think strategy is good. But like what you said, just going back to going back to crying out to God Take this away from me. Like just being brutally honest. I think if if non Christians or people who aren't not even sure if God exists or if they're trying to figure it out are doing that and crying out, how much more should a Christian be doing that with our sin and our the things that we're trying to Adam: Is they know. Aaron: overcome? Yeah, yeah, it's like God, take this, like help me. But I need you. Just being desperate in prayer is so powerful. I think that's what's coming out of this conversation is you're a prayer like basically, bro, you're a prayer warrior. Like that's what you you that's what Adam: Yeah. Aaron: you are, man. You are doing that and you're telling people to do that. Yeah, I think that's that's that's really good. How how do people like on on your side, like if 'cause I think for me I sometimes get scared, maybe like a bit fearful. I know someone's going through something really hard like addiction. I kind of feel like, Adam: Mm-hmm. Aaron: is it is it do I ask about it, do I not, or is it a right time, or how do I do that? Like i do people want to be asked about that? Is it is it something that's only reserved for the maybe the community that's helping them particularly through that? yeah. Adam: Yeah. It's a really, really, really good question. Aaron: I know it's personal to different peop to different people, but Adam: It it's a I I guess something and I I learned this from a an old CEO that I had in in real estate, Seek First to Understand, Aaron: Mm. Adam: is I think James Wooden potentially. just this simple thing of most people that are are dealing with this like they they want to be understood. and you can you can help just just by listening. Just say, hey, can I can I can can I can I be there? Can I do something? yes, there's there's a level of when you you you you're an addict yourself or you've you've gone through the the those circumstances being able to to help in that in that sense, but just being an understanding e a friend. Some people just want a friend. Like they they Aaron: Yeah, wow. Adam: want someone to just be there, to sit there and and know that they're not judged. And I think when I'm describing this kind of thing, I just think of Jesus like Jesus didn't judge Mary for her algorith, you know, like Jesus didn't judge the Aaron: Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Good point. He was with the tax collectors, right? The tax collectors and the sinners in Mark Two. He was getting judged for being with those Adam: Yeah. They they d that was a Aaron: people. Yeah, like yeah. Mm. Adam: The lowest of the low. And that that is sometimes how people feel when they're going through the situations that I've been like that that they they feel that they're at the bottom of the the chain. And what Jesus has taught like and this is really where I my my relationship with Jesus absolutely skyrocketed and changed was understanding just how understanding he like just understanding humanity. He's just he's about humanity and giving people dignity and humanity in that they are still human beings and they are children of Christ, no matter what. Like Aaron: Good. Yeah. Adam: you know, like and and that's something that I get and I I I do I I see that in you. and I see that. that it and and and look, if I'm being honest, it's not always It's that's not always forthcoming in the church. Aaron: Mm. Adam: there there is judgment, there is Aaron: Absolutely. Adam: there is like we we've seen it all the way back to the Pharisees. But Jesus wasn't like that. And when he says follow me, that that that's what I do. Like it it's like, okay, well, would I would would is Jesus gonna judge these people? Is g what what's he gonna do? He's not gonna come in with a four four four point plan of how to Aaron: okay. That's Adam: do things. He's gonna sit and he's gonna listen. He's gonna be there and see how how but most importantly, he's not gonna judge and and and help these people understand help people understand and and and for that they may not sit there to learn but the more that I can go away and learn about Jesus and what Jesus did and how Jesus acted and and behaved and and how he showed me through his actions and through his through the way that he was with with these people then I can go out and be that be that like I I don't have to be a preacher. I can just I can my actions my Aaron: Yeah. You just be with people. Yeah. Adam: is just be there and be there. And and and that is I've found that's where the Holy Spirit comes in where Aaron: Mm. Adam: it and it it's a it's saying that like I want what that person's got. Like it it's it's it's this attraction and when I'm following to the best of my ability Christ and and and in how my understanding of how Jesus acted and and and was there in in terms of b Him being there for people and and I get to watch or see what what he did. and and and if I've got that in my heart and I'm thinking about that when I when I respond or I try and and help rather than making it about me. than than this this spiritual thing that just happens. Like it Aaron: Mm. Adam: it it happens in that moment with the like I I I and and and and and it's unexplainable that Aaron: Yeah. Adam: that that they they just Yeah. I th d do you do you see w like where I'm Aaron: Yeah. No, I see. I think yeah, I think what you're talking about was really good is like being just re like relationship. Like relationship and being with someone is like what it's all about. Like that that's that's what it is. And that's I love how you said Jesus gave people dignity. G Jesus made people yeah, he took away people's shame. there was something about Jesus, you know, you got the people that the you know, Jesus repulsed the religious people. Right. Like that's that's the when he gets 'cause Jesus did. Like I mean, you know, Jesus was he called shots, but it always a lot of the time it was on the religious people, those the the Pharisees, the Sadducees Adam: Yeah. Aaron: that were trying to do these things that were, you know, just being very self righteous. Like that's who Jesus gets really, you know, indignant against and and strong against. Adam: Against him. Aaron: But the people that are low and in s it feels feels lower in society or they're going through struggles or they're people that you know, a lot of people would not want to be associated with Jesus was just with them. He was just with them. And like Adam: Hmm. Aaron: what you said and the when we're in relationship, and I love that. It's like when you're there in that proximity, then the spirit, he begins to move and and people begin to see you. Adam: You let him yeah. Aaron: Yeah, you let him do his thing. And so I think that's that's a really good point. I think, yeah, just being there for people and Yeah, just if someone wants to be your friend, you're never gonna be you're never going to be repulsed by that. So even if you I I I I guess if if even if people are in addiction or they're feeling a bit of shame and and that kind of thing. If peop if someone just wants to come and hey hey, how can I just be with you? Like you wanna hang out? Something like that. I c I can't really see that not really working great, like just building that relationship. So, I think that's a really good point, bro. And I think that's some of that yeah, I'm j I'm trying to learn that too, 'cause that that's my nap I'm asking out of just curiosity 'cause I know I can get a little bit odd, Adam: Yeah. Aaron: you know, I'm not always around those people, so I don't know how to act. I don't know what to do. and I think it's a good point 'cause I think, Adam: Just Aaron: yeah, maybe in the church we can we can judge 'cause we we have this thing sometimes that we kind of picturesque of what it should look like, you know, and if it's not normal or we're not used to it, we kind of get freaked out and so we we do judge and we try and move it away. But nah I think Jesus is he's run into those people. and I think we Adam: Yeah. Aaron: we gotta do that and do a better job. by the way, do a better job. At least in my church community. You know, you're you're you you're pa you became a Christian in a part of our church community for a while and now you've we moved to another church which is which is great. And I think God has us in different places for different seasons. but yeah, I think for my c for our church context, yeah, I think we just gotta keep on working on that. I think every church does, but yeah, I think I c I gotta do what I gotta do in my in my part too. Adam: Well cool, it it it it's the same I think it's the same move. It's just like it it it's treating treating people like human beings rather Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Adam: than their their disease or their label or projects. Yeah. and and Aaron: Project or projects to be fixed or something like that. Yeah. It's a good point. Adam: sometimes it y you don't need to find the right word. You don't need to say anything. Just that they know that, Aaron: Mm. Mm. Adam: you know, like I I'm here. Like I you know what, hey, if you need anything, call me. And Aaron: That's good. Adam: and you don't like I they said, I I I people don't like to feel different to everyone else. And I guess for for like i th the more that you can normalize and hu humanize others goes a long way. it goes a a huge and and I'd say straight out, you guys do it really you do it really well. You do it do it really well Aaron: for sure. Adam: in t in terms of helping people feel comfortable and and and I love that you're always seeking and trying to learn and and trying to trying to help in in Aaron: Thank you, bro. Adam: in in in in in whatever you like yeah. you're you're always asking questions. Curious your curiosity this huge thing. No, no, no. Like it it Aaron: Appreciate it. That's it. I mean too many questions sometimes. Yeah. I do have I do have I do have I do have a couple more questions before we wrap up if you're cool with that. So but thank you Adam: Yeah. Absolutely. Aaron: guys I appreciate that. And yeah, I just we you know we're always trying to do our best. So but there so I want to talk about the the acting thing quickly. I know there's a bit of a pivot there and and I think I see you've always been it's seems like it was a passion thing that you move from real estate to to acting. and that that could be maybe conversation fully in depth maybe another day. But I do think there's a like I th think about the question of as a Christian in the acting space, right? There's I think there's maybe how do you navigate that in terms of roles and you know, things that you go for, things that Adam: Yeah. Aaron: you do. Like how do you think about that from your perspective and and your convictions now, as a Christian? 'Cause you've been doing this basically as a Christian. Like like the the role, yeah. So Adam: Yeah, absolutely. Aaron: Yeah, how does that go for you? Adam: Yeah, that's that's a that's a really, really good question. it's I have this is one thing I haven't found difficult. I it look, I I I shouldn't say I haven't found it like I have had to make choices. where but I I'm so glad that I've gone into this with my Christian faith because the choices haven't been hard ones. if it doesn't feel right. I won't do it. i if it it sort of crosses a line with my values, I just won't do it. Like I I Aaron: Mm. Mm. Adam: d there there's no ifs, buts, mate. I don't look at the I don't look at the money. I don't look at the w like it literally it could be the the the lowest of low denomination in terms of financially or it could be the like so and and and and there has been there's been opportunities that I've had where I haven't like that been lucrative that I haven't Aaron: Mm. Adam: that I just won't look I just won't look at. 'cause it it crosses that and it comes back to for me, God's either everything or he's nothing. And I have to have faith in God that if that as long as I stay true to him and stay true to me, that the right the the the next right opportunity will be around the corner, kind of thing. Like I Aaron: It's trust trusting him again, you're right. Trusting him. Mm. Adam: You know, trusting him again, coming back to him again. And but it it's not like I I I've played roles before where like I've played a serial killer, like I've played where it's not I guess I'm I'm playing a character, but then there's there's times where I've been offered opportunities with gambling or alcohol or to facing like like to some demonic type like t type thing and and and I look at and I and I look at that that ser the serial killer. Like I like I'm not not a serial killer, but I in terms of insinuation or or or whatever it is, I I can play that role without Aaron: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Adam: thinking too like i in terms of what it is. But for me some of the stuff around addiction, I won't Aaron: Yeah, for sure. Adam: like I I won't I won't look at or I won't do or I I played this I p I I this play Dr. Faustus. I played John Faustus who I think your your parents came to this play, which was it was it was that they did. But I Aaron: They did, did I really wanted to come. We couldn't we couldn't make it happen a bit. Adam: I I I but I played this role and and when when he to when Dad said he was g I was like 'cause it there there there was a fair bit of that seven deadly sins were in there and there was some adult toy like it was there was there was some wax stuff going but I remember when I got given the role and I when I looked into it I I there was a wrestle with because he he sold his soul. Aaron: Yes. I remember talking about this. Yeah. Adam: to l the devil and he to for for for greater knowledge about the universe and the sp like stars and and back then anything space exploration or science was considered a sin. Sort of like there's Aaron: Mm. Adam: th there was a certain it was a lot a a lot different. however the what I I really dived into was my own probably my own experience and and understanding that my perspective of the character also portrayed that yes, he did sell his soul to to Satan. He he went through these these trials, these tribulations. But at the end of the play, even though he got he he got burnt or like th he that they took his soul away in terms of what it was, he repented. Aaron: Hm. Adam: and he understood he'd made the bat he'd made the wrong decision in doing that. Aaron: Mm. Adam: He understood that he shouldn't have walked away from God. And as l as much as we know that God doesn't walk away from us and we can't Aaron: Yeah. Adam: like in in terms of of of where that is, It was also the the full circled moment that he he understood that God is exactly where he sh he should have been all along and he shouldn't have gone down that path and and in his own way he made that repentance. And if I can find something like that into in in in a in a character or or then then I'll I'll take that on. Aaron: Yeah, it's a very deep role, unique role, yeah. Mm. Adam: however, if something is just completely Yeah, like w you know, some of the garbage that is is sort of played these da like I won't be a part of it. sort of thing and and and that I think that's liberate like a d there's there's just that comes back to that trust. Like I don't I don't have Aaron: Yeah. Adam: a I don't have lack and and scarcity in in what I look at. God's abundant and if I'm making decisions based around my relationship with God and how that how that stands and and how I feel within myself and my soul. And if it lines up and and stands the test alongside God, then Aaron: Yeah. Adam: then I can I I can I can be ha like and and you know like Aaron: Good conscience, yeah. Adam: Yeah. And and that God's gonna provide a di like a a better opportunity's gonna come with a a role that's more aligned. Like quite recently I've played the ch a a chaplain multiple like I've played a Aaron: cool. Adam: Like which has been a cool cool experience. Like it th that that started coming up and and getting to play I played Aaron: Awesome. Adam: Doctor Ch Doctor Chousable in in the U The Importance of Being Ernest and I think the chaplain in Mother Courage where but but also and the beauty about them is getting to create not a holier than thou sort of character but but a flawed human being that that just wants to do better and do right by by God, but can get caught up in in human and and I I look into that and I I really because I resonate and relate, Aaron: Yeah. Adam: on a personal point of view, that that we are all flawed individual like other than Jesus, we're all sinners, you know, like Aaron: Mm, mm. Adam: we we're all but if if we have a genuine desire and a genuine intention to do better and to be more like Christ, then i it's gonna come across in in in those things that we do. And yeah, it's which which I I think it's one of the greatest things that I've done. And I don't care whether I become rich and famous. I don't care whether or not it I end up with a Netflix steal. I'm I'm doing something that is getting me closer to my creator. I'm I'm doing something that is helping me find a deeper deeper understanding of myself and I'm constantly being given opportunities to play characters that dive into and delve into a relationship with my my creator in some way, shape or form. and Aaron: Mm. Yeah. Helps you get closer. That's really cool. Adam: and it brings me closer. and and each one of them I pray on, I I I take thought, I take prayer and and and ask the question like Aaron: Yeah. Adam: how what can I learn from this? What are you trying to teach me in this? Where where am I going in this this this thing? And and like we said earlier, nothing happens in God's kingdom by mistake and and the constant roles that keep popping up that are close to Christ or close to some relationship with Christ, that hasn't happened by mistake. Aaron: Yeah, that's so good, bro. That's amazing, man. I think it's just so amazing to see the like your perspective now and your the p the viewpoint you have on life is really through the lenses of Christ. Like if it doesn't get me close to Christ, if it's gonna take me away from Christ, I don't want it. And and that's and Adam: I wanna know about Aaron: that it's amazing that the trust there, like you think about how hard it was for you to trust, you know, early on in your life and then Adam: Yeah. Aaron: And just like you look at yourself now and you kinda go, Is am I the same person? And it's kinda like, My goodness, no and then and praise Adam: Mm-hmm. Aaron: God, like it's it's just you're growing so much for us. I I think that's amazing. So Adam: That's a that's a do like this year I I took on the start of the year doing three hundred and sixty five days of reading the Bible start to finish and we're very close to finishing the old testament. but Aaron: Let's go. How's that? Have fun? Adam: it's it's it's been up and down. but Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Adam: but having said that I what I've taken from it is is I've changed. I've changed as a person through through through reading and just letting it wash over me and Yeah, I I look I I I didn't know what I was looking for. I didn't know what I was getting into. I didn't know there's lots that I don't know and and and look I plan on doing that consistently for the rest of my life. Like the that Aaron: Praise God. It's also. Adam: doing that same just over and again, just helping that wash over us but what I what I've taken and and and and what I've is just it's constantly changing me. I constantly r reread things and and learn something different, learn something new, change my perspective. But it it's just been an eye like like I said, I I've I've not been this interested or and and and it's something I found really difficult. Like I think I I spoke to Mike about this last year at some point. I I I tried really hard, I think three or four times to get into the Old Testament and and just couldn't. I just gave up like multiple multiple times and and this year I've just sort of stuck at it. And yeah, we're we're we're I think I've got twenty days left of the Old Testament before I get back into the the New Testament and Praise Jesus sort of thing, he's back. So but yeah, it it it's it's changed me. Aaron: Come on, man. Nah, great job. That's it. That's it. That's it. Nah, praise God, man. That's so cool. That's so cool. That's so amaz that's amazing, dude. And and I think last last question, because I I'm gonna do I'm gonna ask this all my guests and I really appreciate your time. It's been dude, I've actually just loved this conversation, bro. You just sharing Adam: Awesome. I've loved it too, yeah. It's been great. Aaron: sharing your story and just hearing it all in detail is is is amazing. We'll get you back on, man, because there's you know, we can run it up and talk about some other stuff too. but this last question is what where do you feel like God is trying to reshape you right now in your life? Is there anything that you feel like you're being reshaped in, either your perspective, your character, Adam: Ooh. Mm. Aaron: is there yeah, what what what type of reshaping is God trying to do with you right now, you think? Adam: I I think there's there's there's definitely days that I I struggle with the things I don't have the the the like Aaron: Mm. Adam: I was a very materialistic person before I came to to to Christ and and to to sobriety and and and some days like I'm most days I'm pretty good in t in terms of like the fact that I've got a close relationship with God, I should be just grateful. Like that that like th not a lot of not not not many people get that, you know, like in in Aaron: Mm. Adam: their lifetime. And but there's some times where I I I wish my partner came back. there's some days that I wish that I was more successful. there's some days that that I wish that I was in a much better financial position that that things weren't so hard, you know, like all all the time but but I I guess and that's where in terms of the got God shaping me to to trust, to keep trust, like the the whole thing, just trust in him. And you know, like trust in the Lord with all your heart. Not on your own Aaron: Mm. Adam: understanding, but submit your ways to him and he'll make your paths straight. Like Aaron: Amen. Amen to that. Adam: coming back to that and and going, look, I've got this. Alright, do you Aaron: Mm. Adam: do tri like like like I I like I have to keep coming back to the thun the thunderstorms before the bapt the bef before the christening, you know, like Yeah. Lightning and thunder where it's Aaron: Liter literally the thunderstorms. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Adam: like you can't go in the water, mate, it's dangerous. Like Yeah Aaron: Yeah, like you're gonna die probably. Yeah, that's it. Adam: Yeah, and and and coming back into it's like, you know what, like turn this over. Turn Aaron: Mm. Adam: this over. Turn that relationship. Turn that relationship with her over. Turn that need for success and for validation over. Turn that expectation around your career over. and yeah, I'm I'm we're not saying that everything that you ask for is gonna happen, but just just trust me, trust me with it. Trust me with it. Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Adam: That's probably for me something I still definitely is is something that I I I struggle with. Aaron: Mm. Adam: and I think I'm taught that the things that we struggle most to let go of and turn over are the things that we really need to trust him with the most. And Aaron: That's that's a bar right there. Yep, that's so good. Adam: You know, like that that that is that is my next that Aaron: Mm. Adam: that that that that's he he he like yeah that I haven't changed these things in your life because you haven't really turned them over for me. You haven't turned Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Adam: them over because you've you've given them to me, but you've then every every couple of hours you're asking, Hey, you know Aaron: Yeah. you got me? You good? Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Adam: Have you fixed that yet? What's going on here? Hey. Yeah. So that that is fully, fully trusting and fully and and it's hard. It's that's it's it's so hard. because it like where I am now compared to where I was a couple of years ago is is is light years. but clearly that trust was nowhere at all. now. There's there's probably just a few things, a few things in my life that I I still have said, I think I could well, you know what, you've done really well with all these different parts of my life. But hey, hey, how about you I'm gonna take the wheel now? You know, like I'm Aaron: Other things, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well this thing right here. Yeah yeah. Adam: gonna I'm gonna take this back. I think I've got this from here, you know, and and I've got so much evidence in my life to say that that doesn't end well. And and that And and look I've trusted that. So yeah, in a in a nutshell and I know that was a drawn out sort of answer for it, but it's it's Aaron: Keep trusting. Adam: trusting him with the with the things that I struggle to trust him with the most. Aaron: Yeah, yeah. The things c nearest and dearest. Yeah, that's so true. That's Adam: Yeah, correct. Aaron: nah, it's really good. I I think yeah, that's always such it it's I feel like it's easy to trust when you feel like you're not that vested in it, right? Like you c you c yeah, I trust you with that. 'Cause you don't really don't really care about it, you know, or that much. Like Adam: Yeah. Aaron: if it doesn't go well, it's not really like the end of the world. But the things that are really close, like yeah, job, family, health, those kinds of things like God, like you can you really mm, I don't know. But I think what I'm learn I think from this conversation, one thing I learned is just I love your like, just keep it simple. Desperation in prayer to God. Like, God can you do it? God can you do it? God please do it. God please do it. I need you, help me to trust you and just have that desperation. I think that's something I just gotta keep getting back to. 'cause I'm a very pragmatic person. So I like to do the strategy, I like to do the things and I think that's again, I think there's a place for that. But I think at the end of the day it comes down to that just the that deep, simple faith, which is what tr faith is. Faith is trusting. It's trusting. it's not trusting in the result, it's trusting in the Creator, trusting in it's the object of your faith. Yeah. Trusting in God that He is Adam: Trusting in the yeah. Trusting in God. Aaron: good, He's got it sorted. No matter what happens, he's in control. Yeah, I think that's an amazing thing. So Well, Adam, bro, I really, really appreciate your time, man. This is this has been really, really good. and I've really Yeah, Adam: Thank you, brother. It's been amazing. Aaron: again, it's really grateful for you to be able to hop on. I know you're doing a lot and there's a lot of great things going on in your life, bro. So we'll be praying for you and hopefully we'll we'll see you around. But thanks so much, bro, appreciate you. Adam: And to you. No, I definitely we will we will see you around. I need to get back and and come down for a a Sunday service or Aaron: Yes, sir. appreciate everyone that's been able to listen. Please go ahead, follow us. I'm gonna I think we've got an Instagram, got a Facebook, gonna do it all that sort of stuff. So but yes, this has been the Reshape Podcast with Aaron, with Adam. Thank you for listening.