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Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger And The Cell Records · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. Brian
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Coohberger and the evidence against him has certainly piled up. However,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: all of it is circumstantial in nature at least to
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: this point as far as the public's concerned. But some
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: of that information that has been released to the public
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: is very strong, and some of the strongest of that evidence,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the DNA evidence, is being tied together with cell phone
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: records that were used to put Brian Koberger at the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: scene of the crime multiple times leading up to it
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and even afterwards. So in this episode, we're gonna hear
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: from more experts who are talking about the cell phone
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: records and how the cell phone records could possibly help
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the prosecution get to pay dirt and secure a conviction.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Today's article was published by news Week and the headline
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: how Brian Coberger's cell phone records could be used against them.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: This article was authored by Kalita Rockman. It will be
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: months before prosecutors try to show a judge that they
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: have enough evidence to justify the charges against Brian Coburger,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and experts have told Newsweek that the cell phone data
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: could be instrumental in providing that evidence and it's going
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: to be very, very crucial what they come back with
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: when they really go into that phone. All of those
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: GPS coordinates, all of the stuff, the internal stuff, not
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: just the pings right the connecting to the cell phone tower.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: That's a lot easier to explain than say, if your
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: phone connected to somebody's Wi Fi. We all know that
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Wi Fi doesn't go that far away, and when you
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: leave your house, it's not long before you drop your WiFi,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: and if you leave it on Rome, you'll pick it
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: up on somebody else's house. Maybe now it might not
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: connect if it's a private connection, but it will register
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: that it was connected to that Wi Fi router. Look,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: these guys that go into these phones and get to
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: forensically snooping around, they're good at what they do, and
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: more times than not they find what they're looking for.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: So if any of that happened and Brian Coberger's phone
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: connected or anything like that, they're gonna have that information
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and they're gonna use it against them. Coburger, twenty eight,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: is accused of breaking into a rental home in Moscow, Idaho,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: in the early hours of November thirteenth, and fatally stabbing
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students Kaylee Gonsalvez, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle,
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  Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin. He is facing four counts of first
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: degree murder and one count of felony burglary. He has
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: not entered a plea, but a lawyer who represented him
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: previously said Coburger was eager to be exonerated. The preliminary
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: hearing is set to begin on June twenty sixth, and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: this trial is going to be an absolute zoo. There's
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: going to be a ton of members of the media,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a ton of members of the independent media, content creators.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: You know, there's going to be psychics and all the
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: rest of the carnival barkers showing up to have their
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: five minutes of fame. A probable cause affid David unsealed
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: in early January, revealed that investigators obtained Coburger's cell phone
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: records after police officers at Washington State University, where he
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: was a doctoral candidate in criminology, identified a white twenty
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: fifteen HONDEI a Lantra registered to him. It matched the
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: description of a vehicle that had been seen near the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: scene of the crime on the night of the killings.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: The Affid David said Coburger's phone was either turned off
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: or on airplane mode around the time of the killings,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: but the data right before it was turned off suggested
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: he was heading in the direction of the home, while
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: data after it was turned back on suggested he was
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: heading away from there. I mean, come on, bro, really,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: just leave your phone at your apartment, leave it on,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: get yourself a burner, and be done with it. Using
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: the data and surveillance footage of the vehicle that police
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: identified as a white Hondai Lantra, investigators sketched out a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: possible route that Coburger could have taken on the night
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: of the killings. Other cellular data showed Coburger had been
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: in the neighborhood at least a dozen times prior to
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: the murders, always late in the evening or early in
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: the morning, the affid David said, And I'm sure he
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: was just over there to hang out and listen to
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: his audio book and admire the facade on the side
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  Speaker 1: of the house. He liked the way people mow their
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: lawns over there a little bit better than they do
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  Speaker 1: over in Pullman. Or maybe he was over there having
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: some hot cocoa and trying to figure out how to
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: end the beef between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Come on, man,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: we all know what old boy was doing over there here.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Experts tell Newsweek about how Coburger's cell phone data and
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: other records could be used against them. Joseph gia Coloone,
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  Speaker 1: adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, cell
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  Speaker 1: phone records place him at or near the scene. Gia
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Colone said that Coburger turned his device on and off
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  Speaker 1: can explain intent to go unnoticed. He said, in addition,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: if he left his phone on, he might have attached
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: to the Wi Fi. There is still so much we
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: don't know about the cell phone, and that's a very
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: fair statement. We have no idea what they swooped up
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: with those digital search warrants. You know that they got
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a ton of evidence from Brian Coberger's accounts, from his
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: cloud account, any accounts that were attached to his phone,
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  Speaker 1: forget it. That's how they usually nail people these days.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: You can't do anything without your phone recording it. Gia
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Colone said he would be interested in whether investigators have
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: video surveillance that shows cob returning to his apartment on
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the night of the murders. I have yet to hear
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: if any exists, he said. He said other records from
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  Speaker 1: Coburger's phone could also be key, such as map programs,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: internet searches, and other apps. Remember a lot of these
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  Speaker 1: apps you have to grant them permission to connect to
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  Speaker 1: your phone, to get your location, all kinds of invasive shit.
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  Speaker 1: So they leave a digital pattern of all of that.
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  Speaker 1: And when you have people who are forensically gifted when
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: it comes to computers, the sky is the limit. It's
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  Speaker 1: amazing the things they can recover off of a computer
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  Speaker 1: or a cell phone or any digital record. Really, cell
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  Speaker 1: phone records, internet records and video surveillance not only play
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: a role in this case, but just about every criminal
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  Speaker 1: investigation moving forward, he said. And that's for sure, that's
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: the age we're in. If you're out here thinking you're
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: going to commit crimes and get away with it, chances
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  Speaker 1: are you're not going to get away with it unless
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: it's in the inner city, And of course that's a
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: whole different ballgame. But if you're out here thinking you're
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: going to get away with being a serial killer, if
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: the police focus on you and they have the resources
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: that we saw in Idaho. The chances are slimmed, the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: none that you're going to get away with it, Duncan Levin,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: managing partner of Levin and Associates. The cell phone records
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: will be used to show, particularly that Coburger is alleged
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to have turned off his phone for a few hours
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: around the time of the commission of the offense, and
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that at Piting, near the site of the murders, directly thereafter.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Levin said. It also allegedly shows that he came to
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the area of the murder scene in the months proceeding
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  Speaker 1: and after remember nine am the next morning, what are
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: you doing showing up there, bro Levin said. Coburger's defense
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: attorney will argue that the cell towers are accurate to
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  Speaker 1: about twenty miles, which is the distance roughly between his
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: apartment and the scene of the crime. In other words,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: he will argue that there is a margin of error
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: in the records that does not prove what the state
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: is alleging. And they're not wrong if they argue that.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be the bearer of bad news
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: or anything. But if all they have is the pings,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be a bad, bad time for the prosecution.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: They better have this other stuff Wi Fi, GPS, that
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  Speaker 1: sort of stuff, because that's ironclad. There's no arguing with that.
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  Speaker 1: If that data says you were there, my friend, you
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: were there. Levin added, it's really true that our phones
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: know everything about us. Cell Phone technology is being used
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  Speaker 1: around the country in criminal cases and act like beacons
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  Speaker 1: to show where people were and when. And I know
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: for a fact a lot of organized criminals they're doing
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  Speaker 1: away with cell phones. They're not using them. I even
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  Speaker 1: know that there's some organizations going back they're using things
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: like pagers. So as the technology catches up, you have
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  Speaker 1: to remember that the criminals, they're savvy. They're gonna change
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  Speaker 1: it up too, and they're gonna start using different technology
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  Speaker 1: to evade the police and evade the technology that the
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: police are using. It's the age old cat and mouse game,
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  Speaker 1: isn't it. You're the cop on the robber. It's my
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: job to rob it's your job to stop me. Michael mccauliffe,
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  Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor and elected state attorney, The location and
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the movements of Coburger before, during, and after the killings
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  Speaker 1: will play a major role in prosecuting them. Mccauliffe said
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  Speaker 1: cell phone location and tracking evidence will be the basis
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  Speaker 1: for that proof. Mcauliff explained that law enforcement uses triangulation
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  Speaker 1: from signals between individual cell phones and towers to determine
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  Speaker 1: movement and location, and newer phones can be located with
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  Speaker 1: greater accuracy with GPS technology. Cell Phone location and tracking
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  Speaker 1: evidence can be extremely valuable in building cases. He said.
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  Speaker 1: The caveat is that a phone needs to be tied
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  Speaker 1: to a specific person. However, I've given our cultural pension
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: to taking one's phone everywhere. It is not difficult to
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: link a cell phone and the person. Come on, who
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: leaves the house without their cell phone unless you forgot it,
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  Speaker 1: or you're up to no good, or you're my mom.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's leaving their house without a cell
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  Speaker 1: phone these days, certainly nobody who's twenty eight years old.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor, have applied forensics at Jacksonville State
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: University in Alabama. Coburger's cell phone records will be used
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: alongside his social media usage in order to demonstrate his
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  Speaker 1: movements in the months, weeks, days, hours, minutes leading up
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  Speaker 1: to the crime. Morgan said it might be used to
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  Speaker 1: demonstrate that he made contact with the victims prior to
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  Speaker 1: the murders, as well as his movements around the time
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  Speaker 1: of the killings and the day after. Morgan said those
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  Speaker 1: records could also be used to validate or invalidate any
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: possible alibis that may be put forth by Coburger's defense attorney.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So I've had people out here say before, oh, well,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: what if he didn't have a cell phone, what if
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: somebody stole it? What if the dog ate his homework?
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, for real, You're gonna have to prove that.
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  Speaker 1: So it sounds fine when you're having an argument with
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: somebody on the internet about if Brian Coberger is guilty
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  Speaker 1: or not, But in a courtroom in front of a jury,
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  Speaker 1: it's a whole different game. And if you don't have
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the evidence to back up what you're saying, why would
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  Speaker 1: the jurors believe any of your nonsense. Did you report
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: your phone stolen? No? Did you turn it off? No?
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: How did you get it back? Uh? See where we're
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: going here? And trust me when I tell you I'm
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: certainly not some kind of seasoned interrogator. I'm lucky I
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: can pare my socks correctly in the morning folks. Nima Rochmani,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: president and co founder of West Coast Trial Lawyers, the
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: cell side evidence would be better if Coburger's phone didn't
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: turn off or go on airplane mode for several hours
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: when the murders happened, Rockmanni said. Prosecutors will argue that
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: the path of travel to and from Idaho is enough,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: and the phone pinging from the house before and after
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the murders is evidence he was stalking the victims. Rockmani said,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to be part of that evidence,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: but I also think they're going to point to things
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: like the mad Greek, things like him being on campus
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: at the student union, him following them on Instagram, him
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: sending the messages on Instagram. All of that is going
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: to tie together, and then it's going to be a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: nice little bow that they're going to drop for the jury.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: But the defense will argue that the time stamps of
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the cell site pings are inconsistent with the videos of
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the vehicle. Rockmani said, evidence that Coburger sent messages to
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: one of the victims on social media could be used
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: against them, and that's why it's important that that happened
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: and why it's a crucial bit of evidence, and why
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: you saw the judge, by the way, drop a gag
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: order directly after this information became available. Well, you think
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: that just happened on its own. Judge woke up and
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: organically said, let's make my life more difficult by putting
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: a gag order on damn near everybody. I highly doubt
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: that Judge Marshall woke up and wanted to do that,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: but I bet you her hand was called. And a
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: lot of it had to do with the fact that
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it was revealed that these girls were contacted by Brian
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Coolberger on Instagram, and when you follow the thread, that's
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: exactly where it ends up, at least for me. Now, look,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: it might be something completely different, right, We might get
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: information later on that none of that occurred. But I
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: don't think we're gonna hear that. I think we're gonna
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: hear that he did contact them on Instagram. He was
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: following them on Instagram, and he was somebody who was
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: on that campus quite often. Oh and the Mad Greek
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: pretty sure he ate there too. The Instagram direct messages
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: are also good. He said. That's the only direct connection
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: so far between Coburger and one of the victims, and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: evidence of motive to commit the murders one hundred percent.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: And remember you don't need motive per se. The murders
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: were committed. And if you have enough evidence that the
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: person who committed the murders is the person in the courtroom,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: well they're gonna be found guilty motive or not. Now,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: of course, motive is a very key component of figuring
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: out what happened. Why would somebody be driven a murder?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: And that's what a defense attorney'll say, You can't even
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: give me motive. Why would my client kill? Well, maybe
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: your client's just a sick bastard. Ever think of that now.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Obviously the prosecution won't say anything like that, but that's
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: what we'll all be thinking. So it's going to be
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: interesting to see which way Coburger goes and what sort
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: of strategy they unferl But either way, you know, your boy,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: his beard and his big mouth will be here for
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the duration. All right, everybody that's gonna do it for
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: this one. All of the information that goes along with
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.