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Detroit Tigers Hang On To Fan Favorites · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, a Detroit
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Tiger's podcast part of the Foul Territory Network. I'm hearing
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: seckly with me as always as a man whose relationship
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: with turkeys centers more on the bowling alley. He is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Cody Stavenhane doing good.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Last time I went bowling, no turkeys for me, it
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: was a rough showing. Also, turkey. Are you a turkey guy, Kieran.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: No, not really. I'm cool with it. I'm cool with
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: it as like the traditional sense you do it on Thanksgiving,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: like I'm smoking one, you know, and here in a
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: couple of days. One time we did do brisket, though,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: because when it's at your house, it's your rules. So
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I try to do something a little bit different every
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: time though, so like it's not just the normal kind
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: of bland thing. But but yeah, you know, I'm cool
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: with it. I'm not against changing it though, you know,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: throwing a little wrinkle here or there. If I had
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: my way to have a small turkey and then like
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: some sort of barbecue dish, I would prefer more than turkey.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: But the white bottom team pounder, so that's going to
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: be the main gues.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: We're also rocking some turkey this year, and I will
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: gladly eat it. But I don't know. One year I
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: did Thanksgiving just me and my dad and we had
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: steak in crab legs and it was pretty enjoyable, a
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: good brisket. I think maybe one year did something like
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: that too. Starting to lean away from the turkey, but
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I don't really make these calls sock.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I will say this, and my wife will back me
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: up on this. Our best Thanksgiving was when we lived
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: together and no family came over because we lived in Oklahoma,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and we had chicken wings. So like like that was
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: the most stress free Franksgiving I've ever experienced, including this one.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: But that's for the h that's for my other podcast
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: that I will talk about with family relations here because
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I'll have a lot of material for that, all right,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: moving on, moving on to Tigers baseball. We are talking
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: here for the first time Cody, since we had Dan Hasty,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the wonderful Dan Hasty on the podcast.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: And if you.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Haven't listened to that, if you haven't gone watched it
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: on YouTube, you should. It's enjoyable. It's a lot of fun.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Dan as nice as it gets in this business, very
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: gracious with his time, and he gave some good insights.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So I think it'd be a good idea Cody for
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: us to kind of plug some, you know, some of
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: our bigger takeaways from that. And the number one thing
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that I took from from talking to Dan and look,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: you gotta remember, like he is of the organization, right,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: so he's gonna be He's not gonna go like talk
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: bad about people, you know what I mean, and North
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: it's just good practice in general. But he's not gonna
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: come on here and dig anybody. But he did talk
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: about comparisons, and I thought in a very fair way
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: and a specific one that I took away as a
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: guy that I just don't know that much about. And
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: he was the minor league pitcher of the Year this year,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Jade Ham, and he said, like, look, there's an argument
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: to be made that maybe this guy, with the success
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: that he had in West Michigan should have perhaps you know,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: been called up to Erie, and he wasn't. He spent
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the entire year in high A ball and if you
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: look at his numbers, they're quite impressive. And then if
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: you look at like you know, he was drafted, I
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: guess like two seasons ago last year, however you define that,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: and so like it would have been a pretty quick
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of change in his life had he gone
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: up to ERIE. And I thought, there's an example of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: this administration being very deliberate, because if he's already putting
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: up good numbers, I means you can probably work on
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: some things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to work
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: on if you go up to the next level. And
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: that's just my very immaturish take on you know, player
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: development at that level, but that kind of makes sense
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: to me. So when you go back and there's clips
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: on our ex account Tiger Territory, Underscore, Cody Underscore or
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: see Cody David Hagen, I'm here and unders Course Decley, like,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: you can go back and watch some of these things.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: But your takeaway Cody from mar talk with Dan, Yeah, I.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Think I asked him about player development? Why is it different?
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Why is it better? People only talk about this stuff
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: in very vague terms. I never never know how to
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: answer that when people ask me that question. I thought
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Dan gave one of the better answers I have ever heard.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I guess it's not necessarily unique to say, well, there's
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: more of an individualized plan, but comparing it to the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: regime of old, the Tiger way of old, and saying
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: that there's not really like a blanket plan for player improvement.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: It's creating a very detailed look at every single player,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: whether you were a first round pick or a twentieth
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: round pick, and devising a plan to get the most
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: out of you, and then really investing in the little things,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: saying like, I've never heard so many players care about nutrition,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know if that will ultimately impact their careers,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: but that's interesting to hear, you know, as Dan News said,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: you would almost it seem superfluous when you'd see like
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: the Dodgers and the Raids doing that, and you kind
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: of roll your eyes. But then you think, well, this
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: is what the good organizations are doing. We have to
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: be doing that as well. And now it's a different world.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: The Tigers are doing those things. If you haven't seen it,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I'd recommend going back and watching the Dan interview, just
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: for a lot of cool little insights like that, as
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: insights when Max Clark's overarching goal wanting to be starting
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: a foundation was phenomenal, Just like some cool tidbits on
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: players that I hadn't really heard before that you would
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: only get from someone who's around these prospects every day,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: like Dan is.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I thought, you know, him saying that it's
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: something that I like assumed, but he gets firsthand knowledge
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: about it's like love it or hate it. When you
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: talk about things like payroll and like whether an owner
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: is quote unquote cheap, that's not really the discussion I'm
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: trying to have right here. However, if you that's the
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: thing you want to hear as a fan is that
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: there is resources being put into the overall organization, the
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: health of the organization. And that's really what Scott Harris
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: talks about when when he talks about you know, Chris,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: iilch you know, has me, you know, whatever I want
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: to do, like he backs me, I support him, you
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: know all that stuff. And there's Dan saying the same thing.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: And he is somebody who is in an unique position
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: that he gets to see it, you know, like he
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: gets to experience it, maybe even talk to these guys
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: about it. And and so I think that should be
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: reassuring for Tigers fans everywhere, even if you still don't
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: want to be in the twenties and payroll, which is
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: obviously understandable, and that discussion we might get to here
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: a little bit later in the podcast. He's these guys
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: aren't going to be payroll factors for a while. But
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: we also talked with Dan about Tyrone Loronzo and hos
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Way Brassino to guys that killed the Arizona Fall League
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: or Senior MVP, both All Stars. Dan had some nice
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: insights on those guys as well, so to go check
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: that out. But you, Cody, you just wrote about this
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: this week about these guys, and I'm trying to kind
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: of put into like perspective kind of where they're at
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: in my mind slash like Tigers fans minds, because they
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: are they're reaching hype levels that I would probably say
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: exceed like even Max Clark and McGonagall in a way.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Because they're a little newer, you know, especially Loronzo Arsenia,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: we didn't really see that much. And so to see
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: these guys get like actual accolades. With respect to Magoggle,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I know he did too, but to see these guys
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: get actual accolades and the reactions to him is made
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: me think they might be like the most hype prospects
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: in the system, So I'm curious. They're both young guys,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: they're both you know, different levels of new to this
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: league's levels of professional baseball, and they're both catchers, and
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: they're both guys were not sure if they're gonna play catchers.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: So I'm kind of curious in your reporting of this story,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: like did you get and you had talked to them
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: at all yet either, So I'm kind of curious, like
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: what kind of gauge did you did you get from
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: these guys who like guarantee you we're going to be
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: hearing from them about them, probably talking about them like
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: all next year as well.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd talked to Brasenia once before and talking to
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: him again when just a zoom call, Like I'm really
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: impressed with this guy, Like he seems to have a
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: great personality and this is gonna get me on a
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: soapbox a little bit. But like, the international signing system
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: is messed up. MLB needs an international drafts. Okay, I'm
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: bringing this up because I've talked to plenty of international
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: prospects before and you ask them about like when they
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: signed or like when they knew the Tigers were interested
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: and off, and you hear like yeah, I had no idea.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Like my trainer, my whatever came and told me like, hey,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: you signed with the Tigers, and I was like, oh, okay, cool.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: And Bersonia was kind of fast about this and like
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: really broke it down. He started talking about twenty nineteen
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: and he's like, no, I want to clarify that was
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: like an agreement. It wasn't a signing, and you know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: talk kind of went through the process, had an idea
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: of some other teams, including the Padres that supposedly were
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: interested in them, and then like officially signing on the
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: dotted line in twenty twenty two. I don't know that
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: just that because it's a mess up system. I'm not
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: saying these kids should know what's going on. They're like
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: freaking sixteen and all that. But like Bersinio seemed very
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: aware of the process, which just told me like, Okay,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: this is an in tune, intelligent guy, and he seems
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: well spoken. I mean he's talking through an interpreter, but
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: he's getting like thoughtful answers. So really impressed with his personality.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Loronzo I admitiately was not actually on that call. I
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: was on an airplane at the time, so I went
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: back and checked some video of it. Seems a little
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: more quiet, maybe a little bit more serious, and obviously
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: he's a serious force to be reckoned with at the
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: plate right now. So not to me takeaways on him.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Still have never met him at all in person, but yeah, like,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: it's kind of cool just having two big dudes who
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: can match in the system. Don't know what the future
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: is going to hold. Defense is a huge component for
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: both of them, whether they stick at ketcher or not.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting that Tigers have not yet
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: officially had a conversation with Persino, according to him, about
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: moving away from ketcher, despite the fact he only played
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: first in DH and the Fall League. Maybe that's typical
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Tigers these days, keeping every possible option and avenue open.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, those are those are some of my thoughts.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're not going to go through scouting reports
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: here or whatever, but you know, both of them went
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: on record saying they want to stick a catcher, which
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I guess is like the right thing to say.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: We ever heard a player be like, no, I really
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: want to move from my original position.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I would I'd be like, yeah, give me the first
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: base man, Like, like, I like, why am I going
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: to try to damage my body playing catcher and the slower,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: slower role, my slower role, my development. Uh when like
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: this bat's getting me there? All right, cool? Let me
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I'll play first base. Hell, I'll play third. I don't care, Like,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: just get me out of catcher. Like catcher is the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: only position where I'd be like, yeah, that's cool. Uh
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: maybe pitchers probably be like all right, Yeah, I realized
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not really a starter. So like, you know, if
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: we can get this relief thing going here a little bit,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: that might you know, the smart.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Ones, the smart ones, but most of them are real
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: stubborn about when to start.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: So so I thought that was interesting and and it's
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: also like it's going to be fun because longtime listeners
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: know that we are very pro romance on this podcast,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and and we and we've.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Been at a new one, we got another one.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: We've got another one that that maybe we'll have to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: have like Dan come on sometime sometime next season Midsummer
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: or something like that and give us just the bromance breakdown,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because because those guys and
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: there might have to be a nickname said for them
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: at some point. I mean, like that's that's the kind
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: of hype that we're dealing with here, you know what
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I mean. So uh so yeah, really cool to see them,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know, it was like relatively open for
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: you know, guys so young and at that level. And
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: you know, Loronzo spoke about the adjustments, you know, being traded,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Like that's another thing too, Like you go through this
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: international signing stuff and then you get into system and
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: then just like that, you're traded. And and also I
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: have a men's respect for these young kids. You're going
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to a different country, there's a language barrier stuff. I know,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: these organizations take care of them, but that's just you're
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: just living a completely different world, you know what I mean.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: So a men's respect for being able to handle all that,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: because go back to when you were nineteen twenty years
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: old and then like excel like on the baseball field
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: at this point they have so so yeah, really really
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: cool story and one that I can't wait to follow,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: and something that Scott makes Scott Harris look smarter and
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: smarter every time every time we get on an update
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: on on the Ronzos. So all right, we didn't touch
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: on this last time because we had the Hasty interview.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: But the Tigers did make some tangible moves, you know,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: with with the roster, the the probably the most notable.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the with the DFA of Wilmer Flores Cody,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: because that's a guy that, if we were to go back,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: he was, you know, futures game guy. He was like,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: you know, where could where could he be you know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in the system whenever we're gonna see him? And then
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: he quickly became lack of a better term, and app
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: your thought and and and it just seems like yesterday
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: we were hyping this guy up and now he's DFAD.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Not all prospect stories are success stories. So I'm curious
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: what's your kind of read on on on like what
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: went down here?
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Because in theory, there's a lot to work with and
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: if you give this organization a lot to work with
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: or as Hasty called it, their superpower, like like like
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: seriously that this seems like a guy that you wouldn't
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: necessarily like quote unquote give up on or move on from.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: But they fell differently.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty stunned. Regardless of the numbers. Look,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Wilmer Flores did not throw a lot last season. Thirty
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: one innings. He had a seven eight four ERA and
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: triple as e R was eight five three. Like it was,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: it was pretty ugly, but still stunned that the Tigers
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: would move on from a twenty three year old going
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: on twenty four who throws a hundred. I mean this
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: guy again two summers ago, futures game, top one hundred
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: prospect this past spring comes out throwing a hundo. Now
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: he's gone like that seems almost on Tigers like. So
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the context here some injuries from underperformance, and I think
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: there was a little more to it. I think heard
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: rumblings that Flores basically wasn't taking to some of the
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: adjustments the Tigers wanted him to make, or had made
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: previous adjustments through his own people that were not actually
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: good for him. Led to some of the struggles. Hey,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: let's fix that. It didn't go well. So it seemed
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: like maybe it became a like I won't see out
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of turn, but like there was kind of some personal
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: factors at play here. Nonetheless, I'm surprised that they would
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: just cast him off, like in looking at the guys
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: who could get non tendered, he was not even on
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: my radar. Talented young picture like seems like some clay
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you would want to keep molding. So that must tell
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: you like whatever disagreements there were, maybe we're pretty serious
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: in nature where the Tigers felt it was best just
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: wash their hands and move on.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you almost like even if there's no
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: like you know, reporting on something like that, that's like
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the only logical conclusion that you could almost make is
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: that like it's just there. There is no mesh point
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: here apparently like that, you know, it just seems like
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: a logical guess because, like you said, all the talent
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and you typically don't you know, give up on guys
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: that like like the question we always ask, like how
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: would you feel he went to the race? You know
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: what I mean?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Right, well he did that. He missed most of like
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: the summer with an ac joint sprain and his shoulder,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't make you wonder like how serious could
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: that injury be? Is there more to it? That's one
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: of those things we won't have the answers too.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: And by the way, maybe they're comes to day that
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: people who do podcast on the Foul Territory Network talking
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: about other franchises, say, you know, with the Tigers, let
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: this guy go like, what's uh, what's the deal? You
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, you know.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: You conclude we're not that far away from being there.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would agree. Well to kind of recap
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: a little bit. They they agreed the terms with McKinstry
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and the Banyas. That's one point six and one point
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: four million, respectfully, and then other are eligible players schoobl Rogers, Fully,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: myze Via Ling, Best Risky lang Ambadoo were tendered contracts.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: So I almost want to start with McKinstry a little
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: bit since it's signed, sealed and delivered here. Cody. Uh,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the Abanyas thing makes sense because we see we see
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: exactly what he's used for, and we see clarity on
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: when he's over used. And I think we experienced this
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: past year like going away from just like he like
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: he's very good against lefties, but he's not We're probably
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: not gonna get that many Barry Bonds gifts anymore, you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, like there was a cooling
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: off period there for him to the year, and he
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: did have that spectacular double in the wildcard round, So
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: respect there of course, but he's a valuable piece. But
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's the hype level has probably gone
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: back down to where it should be. About what his
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: role is on this team. McKinstry is an interesting one
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to me because he was when I look at Team
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Ascension going from this state to this state to this state.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: One of the things I look at is you're going
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: to outgrow and there's another one we'll talk about here
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: in a little bit, You're gonna outgrow certain guys, you know,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: like like there's for Lions fans out there, like Jason
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Cabinda is a guy that it's like, look, you love
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: having them around, but like eventually the talent level has
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to ascend him overall, and you can't just keep carrying
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: guys that you like that check all these other boxes.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: McKinstry felt like to me a player that you could
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: graduate from, if that makes sense. And I understand the
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, he's your number one pitcher out
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: of the pen when the game is uh or maybe
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: not even out of the pen, but when the game
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: is ten runs or more. I understand the handedness. I
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: understand the utility that he plays eight positions. I get
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: all that, but I just I was mentally prepared for
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: the next Zach McKinstry, not necessarily the like the return
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: of Zach McKinstry. Now, obviously i'm wrong as of now,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: so like I'm not saying I'm correct on but he
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: was a guy that I just felt like, you don't
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: have to bring back, you know what I mean? Am
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I making any sense here? Yeah?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: I was not surprised that you know he's coming back,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and that a Banyez is coming back. Both of them
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: are parts that could in theory be upgraded in m chinstry,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: probably more so than a Bonyez. But I always thought
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the Tigers would take these guys to spring training because
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: they've been part of the team, because they have kind
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: of their own chess piece value. We know the Tigers
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: like them. I'd be curious to know the language that's
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: in these deals, especially the one with m kinstry. If
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: he's were to be cut or moved on from by
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: a certain date, it may not be fully guaranteed, even
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: though it's an agreement that's been reached beforehand, So that
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: could be a possibility. You bring these guys to cant
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: because you like them, and if you've upgraded your roster,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: if you've signed some real dudes and everyone's healthy. You say, okay,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: all right, we're going to move on. But I think
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: there's no harm in bringing them this far. Now, Like McKinstry,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: like we've talked about it, I really like Zach, so
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I don't want to like poo poo on him as
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: a player, But there's kind of this narrative that he
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, really good in August in September,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: and he did like he was low key a gritty
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: piece of the gritty Tigs, and he made some big plays,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: came through some big hits, but he hit like one
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: home run in the final two months. The ops was
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: seven fifties, which is like good, not great. So like
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: even that elevated version of McKinstry wasn't actually bringing a
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: ton a ton to the table. Yeah, but he hits
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: leftenant and he plays a million different positions, and so
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the Tigers are gonna gonna keep him around.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And like I guess the other end of this
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: equation is that you want to be in an organizational
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: state that and look, we're talking about a guy's one
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: year to one point, so it's not like, you know,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: we're not And obviously money doesn't actually matter with these
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: with these teams, but they just pretend that it does.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: But there there's there's an element of you should really
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: be in a state that you're constantly like upgrading the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Zach McKinstry position and honestly, to a certain extent, the
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: dye of Banya's position with with younger guys. You know,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: McKinstry is twenty nine, he'll basically be age thirty whole
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: next year. He's in April birthday.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: So wait, wait, wait, are you saying that Tiger should
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: ear mark at bats for young players? That's where we're getting.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: A ear mark bats young players. I've heard that before.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So are you saying you could like bring in a
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: real veteran bat, maybe get rid of one of these
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: fringe roster guys and give young players some some of
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: those at bats. That's a pretty novel concept, man. I
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: wonder if they thought of it.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Carry the two Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that checks out.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: So uh so, yeah, I mean, good on him. It's
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: not like I don't like having him on the team.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: But again, like if you're gonna do this earmark thing,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: you're looking and you're gonna be limited payroll, Like there
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: you all of a sudden the spots to upgrade get smaller,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's really all I'm saying. Uh,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And this potentially could you know, could still be but
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: potentially could be one of them. Another guy that was
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: tender to contract that is been a part of the
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Tigers as long as we've been doing this podcast. In fact,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: he has been a topic. Probably started in like episode
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: four that we uh that we started having to talk
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: about this guy. And to his credit, he's kept in,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: kept it in, uh, kept it interesting. I should say
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: a keel, but do we always would Jog is like
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: should you know? People be like, should I get a
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: due jersey? Should I not get We always said yes
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: because it's a moment in time that you'll always remember.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And you go back to twenty twenty one. Man, there
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: were some fun times and he's had other moments, but
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: you like that spark that he had initially. Spark is
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: not a word that you can really describe a keel
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: right now. He was never really in rotation with the Tigers,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: like at all. And if you look, if you look
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: at his numbers, he batted one thirty seven in uh
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: seventy three at bats for the major league team in
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. It's not a live at bets, all right,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and all right, well maybe he was killing it in Toledo,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: you know, he just didn't really get a chance to
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: play every day in the major leagues. Well he was
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: two thirty eight in Toledo. He played in three hundred
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: and twenty three at bats with one hundred k's and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: forty eight walks. So rhythm was not had there. And
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: everyone and their mother and and their uncle and everyone
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: at the Thanksgiving table thought like this just made logical
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: sense to non tender a kiel bad But that did
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: not happen. So that leads me to believe they see
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: something that we don't. Uh, is there some value that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: they're going to tap into, like aka this role thing
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: that has become part of this team, or is it
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: just hanging on for now and we don't want to
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: lose the asset until we deem it like one hundred
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: percent the better move to go in this direction.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this one was a huge surprise. I definitely thought
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: last Friday would be a Kibbado's last day as a
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: member of the Detroit Tigers. I mean kier and go
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: back three years after his magical rule five season Since then,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: he has hit two oh three with a three twenty
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: eight slugging percentage. I mean that is zero slug six
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: nineteen ops over six hundred and sixty four plate appearances.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: He just hasn't produced. And Keel another guy I really like,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: but it's clearly worn on him. I think back to
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: the rookie year, the big smile, the helmet flying off
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: as he rounds the bases, kind of this like energetic personality.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: We haven't seen that with a kuel Man. When I've
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: been around him, he's kind of siled himself off a
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: little bit. You didn't see him interacting with the teammates
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: near as much. He's not near as approachable, like from
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: a media's standpoint. He's just seen like a quiet and
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: be frustrated. And I guess hard to blame him when
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: you're going through struggles like he has. But that all
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: leads up to, like I keep asking myself, why did
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: they tender him if they thought there was any if
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: they liked any component of his game, which clearly he
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: does have tools that he brings to the table, but
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I think he would have been on the playoff roster
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: like Jase Young did not play in the playoffs like
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: he could have then there's a standby to run or
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: something like that. Roster spot didn't really have a lot
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: of value, So you know, I don't really think like
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: that's it, which I think maybe this is classic new
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: era Tigers of just like they're going to keep every
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: option open. I would still think he Keel's got to
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: be the first or second guy coming off this roster
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: next when they sign someone. But until then, like I guess,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: don't move on from him unless you have to. Maybe
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: is the thinking here like wait until the last possible minute.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: We hear Scott Harris and Jeff Greenberg talk about that
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: being like a big part of their decision making process,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: like using every single amount of time allotted. So I
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: that would be my guess here for why Aquil was
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: tendered a contract. But I would be beyond stunned if
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: he showed up for the first day spring training in
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Lakeland with the Tigers. All that said, maybe another reason
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: they kept him. You do have to envision bad as
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: one of those guys that you let go and someone's
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: picking up right away because he's because he's fast, he
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: has a unique skill set. There's clearly something in that
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: bat like just the shredded body type, Like is there
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a little more power in there? As ugly as he
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: looks defensively, he's actually grated out like pretty good metrically,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So like another team would scoop him in a heartbeat.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe that factors in here as well.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean again, it's a guy that's game is
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: easy to fall in love with from a from a
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: fan's perspective and honestly, from a storyteller's perspective, there's a
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: lot of elements there that you could you you have
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: incorporated in your writing. And like, at the same time,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: was how confident was anybody really when he when he
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: came up to the plate, Like it just felt like
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: the juice wasn't there. Maybe there's a way to recapture it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe I like the what you said there about you know,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: taking the time. Maybe that maybe these are the guys
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that were starting to like form, Like you talk about
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: this offseason all the time, trying to think like the
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Tigers brass and and these some of these moves might
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: kind of help shape us mentally trying to think like them,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: And then a lot of teams, all right, here's a
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: lot of teams have forty man space. Especially after the
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: non tender deadline, a lot of teams are out there.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: So if another team wants to grab a keel to speak,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: they would have done it yesterday. If you wait until February,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: you signed someone you'd like, go with the keel. Maybe
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: he floats out there, Maybe you can get him back
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: in your organization if you like his skill set, or
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: just like I don't want him playing for the Guardians
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: next year. Something to think about. Yeah.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. By the way, maybe the nightmare scenario is one
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Willie Castro. You know, you know, you know, let this
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: guy go and he becomes an All Star and a
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Gold Glove finalist, and you know, like like the face
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and mental like tone center of your franchise, like it
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: happened for a good team, and he made the playoffs
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: two years ago, you know, like things happened. This is baseball.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: So a lot to chew on. There, a lot to
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: chew on, as you guys are chewing on your Thanksgiving meal.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: So I want to thank Dan again for taking the
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: time to meet with us. I want to thank Cody
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: for taking the time to do this podcast with me
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: because I have a blast and I want to thank
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: everyone of you for dedicating time, a click, a nice comment,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. It makes us feel great. It means
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: a lot to us. I know I speak for Cody
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: on that, and so I have to do the plug again.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Please go to YouTube, subscribe to our YouTube. Hit the
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: notification bell helps us out as we grow this going
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: into the next season, which figures to be one of
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: the more interesting ones the Tigers have had. And Apple
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: and Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts, subscribe five
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: star review if you feel so inclined, because we want
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: to keep doing this, and we want to keep doing
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: it bigger and better. And by the way, we still
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: got still a lot more in the works, still got
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: a lot more in the work. So from Cody Stavenhagen,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I'm Karen Steckley. Everybody, have a happy and safe Thanksgiving.