Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcript (Day 5 Part 1) (10/22/26)

Transcript

Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcript (Day 5 Part 1) (10/22/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to dive into the fifth day
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: of the Tyler Robinson prelim hearing and take a look
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: at the transcript. Judge Graff, I apologize. Would you mind
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: putting your names on record? Answer, Tess Crowley, Megan Thackeray
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: with KSL. Judge Graff, thank you. Have you both reviewed
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the court standing decorum order? Crowley, yes. Thackeray, yes. Judge,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: do you understand the requirements set forth in that order
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: as it applies to your activities today? Crowley, yes. Thackeray, yes. Question,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: by the judge, do you require additional time to review
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the order or to adjust equipment to ensure compliance? Crowley, no. Thackeray, no.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Judge Graff, do you anticipate any difficulty complying with the order?
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Both answer no. Judge Graff, all right, thank you both.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Before we begin this morning, and the court wishes to
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: acknowledge the importance of the safety... dignity, and well-being of
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: all those who are present or who may be present
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: during these proceedings, including the parties, counsel, witnesses, court staff,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: and members of the public. The court is also mindful
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: of its solemn obligation to protect and uphold the constitutional
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: rights of Mr. Robinson and Ms. Kirk. In furtherance of
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: those important interests, all persons attending these proceedings are reminded
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: that portable electronic devices are not permitted in the courtroom
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: or on the fourth floor. Cell phones are not permitted
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom unless expressly authorized. Any unauthorized possession or
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: use of a cell phone or electronic device in the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: courtroom may be addressed by the court. For those individuals
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: who have a cell phone, I invite you to join
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: me as I silence my cell phone to ensure that
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the proceeding today can proceed without distraction. The court also
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: expects every person in attendance will be treated with the
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: dignity and respect to which they are entitled. Consistent with
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: this court's standing decorum order, All spectators shall remain quiet, civil,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and orderly at all times. Spectators shall not engage in
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: conduct that is distracting, disruptive, provocative, disrespectful, uncivil, or threatening
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: in any manner. Spectators shall not make audible comments of
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: any kind, shall not shake or nod their heads, and
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: shall not make gestures or of other visible reactions during
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the hearing. Spectators shall shall also not wear or display pins, buttons, signs, clothing, photographs,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: or other items expressing support for or in opposition to
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: any person connected with this case or expressing any position
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: concerning the status of this case as a capital offense.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: The court appreciates the cooperation of all present in maintaining
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the courtroom environment that is safe, respectful, and orderly. and
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: faithful to the rights and dignity of every person involved.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: All right, my understanding is that the parties wish to
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: address an issue before we get started. Is that correct? Mr. Novak,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: we may. Judge? Mr. Novak, thank you, Your Honor, and
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: good morning. I passed up to the court after providing
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: copies of it for counsel for the state and counsel
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: for the media. A single piece of paper. Does the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: court have that? And this is the defense now. Judge Graff,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I do thank you, Mr. Novak. Defense, thank you, Your Honor.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So every morning the court has a colloquy with the
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: camera operators about their ability to comply with the court's orders.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And they acknowledge that they understand the order and that
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: they can comply with it. And the court asks them
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: if they have any problem with it. And they state
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to the court they do not have a problem with it.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: We also spent many, many hours of court time addressing
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: which exhibits will be or will not be published through
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: the electronic media. And it was. And without belaboring the point,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the court can imagine our concern that the media and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the state who controls this exhibit and the publication of
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: this exhibit in the courtroom as per the court's orders
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: failed to comply with this court's orders after all of
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: the effort that we made and the court made to
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: make sure that the court balanced everybody's rights, including the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: rights that we're concerned about, which are Mr. Robinson's No
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: doubt that the council for the media and council for
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the state will say that this was a very brief
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  Speaker 1: mistake and it was corrected as soon as they realized
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: the error. But it's done. It's out there. It's photographed.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I'm informed that if I want to buy this image
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: and maybe even have it framed and put behind museum
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: quality glass, I can do so and put it up
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: in my office. Obviously, I'm not going to do that.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: But my point is, it doesn't matter how long the
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: court's order was violated. When we live in an electronic world,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: It's done and it's permanent. And we just wanted the
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: record to be clear that we're concerned that the court's
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  Speaker 1: orders have been violated. And they've been violated with respect
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  Speaker 1: to an order that was specifically designed to protect Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Robinson's right to a fair trial. And I don't want
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: to belabor the point any further. I'm also not going
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: to refer to the exhibit with any more specificity because
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: it's not necessary. Judge Graff, is there a requested remedy
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: or potential sanction you feel is warranted given the actions
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: with which you have outlined this morning? Prosecution, I think
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: that we would like to think, when I say we,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I mean Mr. Robinson's counsel about that. We have, as
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the court knows, repeatedly asked this court, move this court
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: not to have electronic broadcast of this proceeding, of any
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: of the proceedings, and specifically this proceeding. The court denied
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: those motions and overruled our objections to the specific EMC requests.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So I think it's a little premature, but I can
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: represent to the court, that we will suggest remedy in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: advance of the next hearing. Judge Graff, well, I appreciate that.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: But I would ask if this is something that is concerning,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: that it be addressed immediately. So I'm not going to
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: wait until this, I recognize and appreciate what you said
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and described. And this was on my mind a lot
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: last night as well. I don't want to sit on this.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So I ask you to respectfully to confer with your
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: counsel and come up with that because I want to
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: address it. I agree, it's concerning, and it warrants examination
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: and to be addressed immediately, especially as we have a
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: little bit left out of our preliminary hearing. So I
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: want to give it the weight it's needed, and I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: don't disagree with you. Defense, then why don't we beg
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the court's indulgence? We don't need to empty the courtroom.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: We can go talk about what we think an appropriate
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: measured sanction would be, and we can bring that suggestion
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: back to the court in a few minutes. Judge Graff,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: all right. Well, before we do that, I want to
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: turn to the state. and to the media to address
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: what you've addressed, and then obviously if there's part two, defense,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: and I appreciate the invitation, and I also appreciate the
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: court's desire to address the consequences, if any, immediately. Judge Graff,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: thank you, Mr. Novak. Turning to the state. The state,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: thank you, Your Honor. I think at the outset it's
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: important to recognize that everyone's doing their best here. The
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: court is, I know the clerks are, I think the
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: media is, we certainly are, and the defense is. The
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: issue came up in the context of an examination of
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: a witness. One exhibit was published before the exhibit at
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: issue was also brought onto the screen. As I explained
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: what we were going to do, defense counsel did not
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: object as that happened. And the reason I bring that
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: up is because of the requirement for timely objections. Moreover,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I do want to say this. This exhibit was read
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: into the record. It was allowed to be read into
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: the record earlier. It's also in an earlier pleading, which
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: is in the information. This portion of that exhibit, I understand,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: is in the information, and it's largely cumulative of Exhibits
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  Speaker 1: 16 and 16.1, which were previously admitted into evidence and
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: published to the media. Finally, we're going to be dealing
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: with a lot of publicity when it comes to media coverage,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: and I think that's really where the remedy is going
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  Speaker 1: to be addressed. I understand that there may be a
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: remedy that can be fashioned today to prevent this kind
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: of thing going forward or going on in the future
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: in this hearing, but I think ultimately that's where this
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: will be addressed. Any other questions for me, Your Honor?
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Judge Graff, well, not at this time. I will afford
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: you the opportunity, obviously, to respond when defense comes back.
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  Speaker 1: I want to weigh this, and taking into consideration, and
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I find your representations to be accurate, as to what occurred.
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  Speaker 1: I believe that I noticed, and I asked for it
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  Speaker 1: to be taken down, because I have a live stream
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  Speaker 1: on my screen, for that very purpose. And the sequence,
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  Speaker 1: I believe I made note, if I'm wrong, please correct me,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: it's been a long four past days. but that's the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: only addition that I find to the representation. And certainly, Mr. Novak,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: feel free to correct it if you believe the sequence
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: was any different. I just want to make sure a
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  Speaker 1: clear record's being made of what happened in order for
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  Speaker 1: whatever happens next to be appropriate and proportional to the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: actions that occurred. Prosecution? No, and that's consistent with my memory,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and I also reviewed the video, the live stream as well,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: in preparation for this issue today. So that's exactly what
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  Speaker 1: I think happened. From my perspective, examining the witness, I
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: did not have a view of what was being published
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: to the public and the media. So I think the
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: court immediately, as soon as it recognized that, brought that
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: to everyone's attention. Thank you, Mr. McBride, to the media.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Now it's the media's turn. Good morning, Your Honor. I
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: appreciate the opportunity to be here on behalf of the media.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I think Our understanding of what happened is consistent with
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: what both the defense and the state have said here,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: so I don't want to belabor that point. But here's
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: how I understand them. There's two exhibits at issue. Those
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: exhibits were used yesterday, in part, because the juxtaposition of
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: those two exhibits might have provided some sort of benefit
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: to the court. The first of those exhibits was asked
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to be published through the three of the court's phases.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: The court said it'll be admitted and evidence be shown
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom will not be shown on the cameras.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: That happened about three hours into the hearing. That all
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: went smoothly and well. That operated exactly as it intended
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  Speaker 1: to do. That requires the participation of everyone, the court,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the defense, the state, media, camera operator, all to do
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: that well. Later in the day, in the video I reviewed,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: this was about five hours into the runtime yesterday. The
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: second exhibit that was going to be compared side by
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: side was introduced. That also went through the three-step process.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: In that case, the court said that it could be
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: admitted into evidence, shown to the court, and then also
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: shown on the cameras. So it was. It was put
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: up on the courtroom cameras. At that point, there was
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: what I think is a useful practice by the camera
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: operator to wait a beat because sometimes mistakes do happen, right?
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: In that case, though, that was authorized. So the camera
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: then panned on the screen, which is set up specifically
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: for the camera operator to be able to capture that.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Examination on that exhibit began. Then, because the examination seemed
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: to call for juxtaposition without much warning for anyone involved,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: the previous exhibit that was intended to be juxtaposed was
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: placed on the screen. From, I think, an observer's view...
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: who didn't know where the testimony was going without warning.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: The camera operator, I think quite astutely, within seconds, recognized,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: this is a different exhibit. And recalling the court's prior order,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: recognized I should pan off, and did within seconds. And
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I think at the time that was happening, the court
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: also caught that and said, let's not do that, and
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: that was the end of it. I think the two
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: seconds is about right. I don't want to minimize that.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I understand the point Mr. Novak is making. We're operating
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: in some ways on a high wire. and we're trying
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: to place as many nets as we can. And all
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: the parties are working together to try to do that.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: But in the age in which we live, one of
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the challenges is that sometimes when something like that is
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: placed on a live screen, someone can screenshot it. And
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: like Mr. Novak said, if they want to put that
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: for sale on the internet, they can. That's why working
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: together to ensure that even small mistakes like that don't
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: happen is critical. And the media coalition that are given
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the opportunity and the benefit of being able to be
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: here to run cameras and to take photographs have complete
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: buy-in on that point. There are, of course, people out
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: there watching a live stream that are not part of
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: our coalition and we can't control. And that's why it's
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: so important that we get the pieces right. I do want,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: without going too far into the evidence, to note that
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: not only the several lines of this exhibit are available
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: publicly in the information, but that the full text, full text,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: every word of that exhibit is contained in a search
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: warrant in the case that was initially filed on September 17th.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: This is the 4th district, but in a different court
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: was held for 6 months, as search warrants often are.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: But then on March 17th, March 16th, March 17th was
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: released in full. On page 7 of that search warrant
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: is the full text of the exhibit. I don't want
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: to suggest that anybody gets the right to say, well
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's public. The court has said don't show
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: it on the screen, but I think it is. We'll
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: just come back later on and tell the court not
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: a big deal because it's already public. That's not how
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: it works. If we say we think it's public, the
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: court says I understand that, but I'm going to make
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: an order. That order should be adhered to. But I do,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: for the purposes of prejudice, for a potential remedy, for
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the court's concern, and the court's sleepless nights, I do
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: want the court to know that as well. Then members
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: of our coalition... have pointed out to me as we've
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: talked about this, while we take this very seriously, it's
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: true in this case that the full text of that,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: not the image of the exhibit itself, but the full text,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: is already in the public sphere, has been reported on,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and is out there. I only want to reinforce to
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: close the recognition that the media, or our coalition, and
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I as attorney for that coalition, have an obligation to
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: make sure that mistakes don't get made. And in this case,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: even though I believe that the camera operator didn't act
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: in violation of the court's decorum order, didn't do something
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: that was forbidden by that, that there was an order
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: that said don't publish this exhibit. And because it flashed
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: on the screen when the camera operator was filming that screen,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that did happen. The media is fully bought in. I,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: as one of the attorneys, and the other attorneys for
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the Media Coalition are fully bought in on a goal
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: to make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Of course, I understand Mr. Novak and the defense need
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: to make a record and make objections. And I also
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: recognize the appreciation and understand the court's role in trying
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: to make sure it imposes whatever sort of direction, caution, sanction,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: response that it believes is needed to make sure that
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the orders are recognized and adhered to. And I want
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the court to know that we will understand that and
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: will comply with whatever the court orders. Judge Graff, thank you.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Anything further before we break? Defense, we don't need a break.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: The court needs a break. Judge Graff? I want to
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: review this. I'm sure there's a stream out there. I
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: want to look at it again in order to appreciate
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the full effect and exposure. I remember it, but given
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the nature of this and trying to weigh the constitutional
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: rights of all parties, I want to be thorough and
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: look at it exactly. So as we move forward and
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: as I evaluate that's being requested by the parties, that
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I am on the level of knowledge and because what
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: it is, it was on screen, I want to look
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: at how long, what exactly was on screen in order
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: to be on point of saying, okay, I fully understand.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was here, I saw it, I noticed
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: it on the screen, but again, I want to take
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: that extra two minutes to review that. Defense, I'm not
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: suggesting that we rush through this at all. I just
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: wanted the court to understand that our request for the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: remedy and the sanction, we're prepared to share that with
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the court. But we can certainly wait until the court
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: has had the opportunity to review whatever the court thinks
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: it needs to review. The permanence of this violation of
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: the court order is a different issue for how long
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: it took to correct the violation. It's a permanent consequence.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: In other words, this image is out there forever and
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: ever in violation of the court's order, no matter what
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: action the court, the state, and the media took to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: remedy it, because that's the technological world that we live in.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So that's my response, if I may, to the arguments,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: but we can hold our suggestion until the court's ready
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: for it. All right, we're going to break right here,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: going to pick back up with the argument. All the
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: the description box.