Latest / Japanese America / Yuri Kochiyama's Diary with Actor Sierra Katow

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Yuri Kochiyama's Diary with Actor Sierra Katow · Japanese America

• 0:00
  So, Michelle, are you an activist?
• 0:01
  No.
• 0:03
  What would have to happen for you to become one?
• 0:06
  Well, I don't know. I'm not really confrontational, but if something like bad, like, injustices happening in front of me, like to my people, my family, then I might become one.
• 0:24
  Welcome, welcome, welcome to episode number one of the brand new podcast Japanese America. My name is Koji Steven Sakai, and I am one of your hosts.
• 0:33
  And now Michelle Malizaki.
• 0:35
  And I'm the other host Michelle. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
• 0:38
  Well, I'm Michelle and I'm a mom.
• 0:40
  I'm a music artist and comedian from Japan.
• 0:44
  I live in America for 35 years and I'm a Japanese American.
• 0:51
  Koji, what about you?
• 0:52
  Why don't you tell us about yourself?
• 0:55
  I'm a screenwriter and producer.
• 0:57
  I am also a father.
• 0:59
  And my father and his family was incarcerated in camps during World War two.
• 1:03
  I'm sorry.
• 1:03
  Oh, it didn't happen to me.
• 1:07
  Just a quick note about this episode.
• 1:09
  We're going to be using the word concentration camps for what is generally been called internment camps.
• 1:14
  And the reason we use the concentration camps is because that's what they actually were to call what happened.
• 1:19
  Internment camps is a euphemism for what they really were.
• 1:22
  When the people who started the camps first started calling it, they did call it a concentration camp.
• 1:27
  And in no means do we mean disrespect to anything that happened in Europe.
• 1:30
  What happened in Europe were actually death camps, and they're much worse than concentration camps. We're committed to being historically accurate and not using euphemisms to make things sound better than they really were.
• 1:38
  So other euphemisms that people use are things like relocation, internment, evacuation. Those all make it sound really better than what they were.
• 1:46
  In reality, they were concentration camps.
• 1:48
  They were forcibly removed.
• 1:50
  They were incarcerations.
• 1:52
  Okay, back to our regular programming.
• 1:54
  This is where we look at all things Japanese American.
• 1:57
  We'll bring alive the history, culture and people that make up this diverse community.
• 2:02
  And in this first episode, we'll look at activist and mother Yuri Kochiyama and how the concentration camps transformed her into a civil rights icon.
• 2:12
  First, let's give a little background.
• 2:14
  Yuri was born on May 19th, 1921, in San Pedro, California.
• 2:19
  She was a Nisei, which means her parents were immigrants from Japan.
• 2:22
  Everything changed on December 7th, 1941, when Imperial Japan attacked the United States Naval Base in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
• 2:29
  Two months later, on February 19th, 1942, Executive Order 9066 was signed by President Franklin Roosevelt.
• 2:36
  Japanese Americans, many of whom were American citizens living along the West Coast, were forced to move from their homes.
• 2:42
  Their only crime was looking like the enemy.
• 2:44
  Many were moved to temporary facilities before being sent to permanent concentration camps located at more remote areas of the country.
• 2:51
  Yuri and her family were temporarily sent to the Santa Anita race tracks, before ultimately being sent to Jerome, Arkansas.
• 2:56
  Following the war, Yuri moved to Harlem with her husband, World War Two veteran William Bill Kochiyama, where her apartment became known as the Revolutionary Salon.
• 3:07
  According to a National Park Service article linked in the show notes, Kochiyama's apartment in Harlem became a crossroads for activists, artists and intellectuals.
• 3:17
  It was at one of these events at her apartment that Yuri invited Malcolm X to join. To her surprise, he actually came and he had a profound impact on her outlook and activism.
• 3:30
  I think I shared with you, Michelle, the, um, the Life magazine picture of Yuri Kochiyama on the cover, holding Malcolm X's head after he had been assassinated.
• 3:38
  Right. I remember as a kid when I saw that, you know, I wasn't obviously born around that time. Well, maybe not, obviously, because no one could see us, but.
• 3:46
  But I'm not that old.
• 3:47
  I remember seeing that as a kid later, much later, and wondering who that Asian woman was, why she was there, and why she was holding Malcolm X's head.
• 3:55
  And I remember thinking a lot about, you know, who this person was.
• 3:59
  And the more I found out about her, I remember thinking that this person was somebody I really looked up to.
• 4:04
  But when you saw that life magazine picture, what did you think?
• 4:08
  Until you mentioned about her?
• 4:10
  I didn't I only saw Malcolm X's head.
• 4:13
  And then I realized, oh my gosh, there is a Asian person and she's Japanese.
• 4:19
  I was like, oh my gosh.
• 4:20
  So I used to do, uh, women in history at the elementary school for my kids, and they asked me to be like, Princess Diana, whatever.
• 4:30
  And I am like, I can't.
• 4:31
  So I had to make my own list of Asian people for me to become.
• 4:37
  But I never knew Yuri Kochiyama.
• 4:40
  And like, what was I thinking until you show it to me?
• 4:43
  I had no idea there was a Japanese person holding Malcolm X's head.
• 4:49
  And you know, when I look at that picture, I wonder, how did she get there?
• 4:53
  How did she get from being like this regular Japanese American woman who grew up in San Pedro and eventually to be in New York, to be in the presence of somebody as as amazing as Malcolm X, and then to be at his assassination.
• 5:06
  And in between those dots, she was in a concentration camp.
• 5:10
  In this episode, we will be looking at Yuri's diary, which was donated to the Japanese American National Museum by Yuri herself in 1996.
• 5:17
  This chronicles her experience moving from her childhood home in San Pedro to the horse stalls in the San Anita Temporary Detention center to.
• 5:23
  Finally the Jerome concentration camp in Arkansas.
• 5:27
  The diary begins on April 3rd, 1942 and ends on October 18th, 1942.
• 5:31
  Yuri was only 21 years old.
• 5:34
  Michelle, should we get started?
• 5:35
  Yes.
• 5:36
  All right, let's go. To help us bring to life Yuri's diary.
• 5:39
  We invited Sierra Katow to read selected excerpts of some of the diary entries.
• 5:44
  Yuri begins her diary with this prologue.
• 5:47
  Daily diary of how I think and feel.
• 5:50
  But may I never put in writing that which would hurt, humiliate, look down, blame or show dislike for any person, nation, race, religion or station in life.
• 6:01
  The first entry dated April 3rd, 1942, she describes her new home in a Santa Anita horse stall.
• 6:07
  April 3rd Friday.
• 6:09
  It's 645.
• 6:10
  In the evening of the first night in camp, and I begin writing a day to day diary of the incidences, experiences and adventures in this bordered world.
• 6:21
  I feel in a rather serious mood.
• 6:23
  It's raining, and somehow the pitter pattering of the raindrops on the barracks seemed to make things seem a little dismal.
• 6:30
  Next door to us on one side, we can hear someone hammering away at something.
• 6:35
  On the other side, a little girl is singing.
• 6:39
  It all seems like a storybook.
• 6:41
  This new life and a new and very different environment.
• 6:46
  We're living in what used to be the horse stall.
• 6:48
  It's a large room divided by a partition in the center.
• 6:52
  There is a light in each section or room with windows on one side.
• 6:57
  Two collapsible cots are in each room.
• 7:00
  My mother and I are going to sleep in the section without the windows, while my brother is taking the other half.
• 7:05
  Yuri next talks about what happened earlier that day.
• 7:09
  It began with her helping clean her house and getting ready for the move.
• 7:14
  Her family had lunch, but she was too anxious to eat.
• 7:18
  Her friends from San Pedro came to see her off, which meant a lot to her.
• 7:22
  We pick up as Yuri and her family begin their trek to Santa Anita.
• 7:27
  It was almost 1: 00.
• 7:29
  It was almost 1: We were finally on our way, giving our hometown and the people we loved a last glance. Hundreds of curious onlookers and spectators were lined up along seventh Street. We turned on Pacific, the main street of our town, and proceeded in single file led by a jeep.
• 7:47
  It was almost 1: What an interesting caravan it must have been.
• 7:49
  It was almost 1: There were all sorts of cars, from model T Fords to 41 dodges and Buicks, plus pickups, trucks and a single trailer.
• 8:00
  It was almost 1: As we descended Brick Hill, we realized it was our exit to a new life.
• 8:05
  It was almost 1: Perhaps there were many that were saddened by the departure.
• 8:08
  It was almost 1: Also those that were relieved.
• 8:11
  It was almost 1: But as for myself, I couldn't really say I had any definite feelings.
• 8:15
  It was almost 1: I was just tired.
• 8:17
  It was almost 1: Yuri and other Japanese Americans were taken through the city of Los Angeles on their way.
• 8:21
  It was almost 1: Yuri noted some of the reactions to her strange caravan.
• 8:24
  It was almost 1: Curious onlookers, passer bys, workmen, housewife, school children would all stare at us as we went on our way.
• 8:33
  It was almost 1: Several even waved goodbye.
• 8:35
  It was almost 1: One little boy said, wish I had a machine gun.
• 8:38
  It was almost 1: Yuri eventually makes it to Santa Anita, where she and others are checked in, their bags checked and so-called contraband confiscated.
• 8:47
  It was almost 1: Yuri managed to convince the person checking her bag to keep her ambulance corps uniform.
• 8:53
  It was almost 1: Let's hear a thought on her new home.
• 8:56
  It was almost 1: I thought it was pretty good, but it seemed as though many of the people were quite disappointed. My mother complained it smelled like horses were still living in it.
• 9:05
  It was almost 1: A little girl in the next apartment rushed out of her place and exclaimed, mom, I never saw a house like this before! A young high school boy said, I'm going to go home.
• 9:15
  It was almost 1: A woman in the next home almost cried.
• 9:18
  It was almost 1: Michelle, when you hear all of this, what are some of your initial thoughts?
• 9:21
  It was almost 1: Oh my gosh, I really hated that part.
• 9:24
  It was almost 1: That the little boy saying that he wished he had a machine gun watching people going to are, gosh, it's awful.
• 9:35
  It was almost 1: And and yet, Yuri, she just wrote it down in her diary.
• 9:42
  It was almost 1: Like I could understand that.
• 9:44
  It was almost 1: Like what?
• 9:45
  It was almost 1: Yeah. I mean, that's what really I mean, amazing about some of these things was that she's so positive.
• 9:51
  It was almost 1: She's Very positive.
• 9:52
  It was almost 1: Like, everything is like. Well, yeah, some boy tried to shoot me with or was pretending to shoot me with a machine gun.
• 9:57
  It was almost 1: And it's very matter of fact, right?
• 9:58
  It was almost 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:59
  It was almost 1: That was, it's very weird.
• 10:01
  It was almost 1: I thought it was very weird.
• 10:02
  It was almost 1: And because I've heard about concentration camps before from other people from who's been there and they all have like, terrible things to say.
• 10:13
  It was almost 1: But yet Yuri's diary tells me different story.
• 10:18
  It was almost 1: Well, actually One of the really interesting things about the camps is that I think that people's perspective on how they look at life really colors how they remember a camp.
• 10:27
  It was almost 1: So like I said, I worked here for a long time, and when I've talked to some volunteers, they tell me it's the worst thing that's ever happened to them.
• 10:33
  It was almost 1: Every moment there's nothing good.
• 10:35
  It was almost 1: And then you talk to other people who've told me that, you know, they remember things that were good, like they had fun at, you know, doing this, that a dance or something, or they got to talk to their parents, you know.
• 10:47
  It was almost 1: So it's really interesting.
• 10:48
  It was almost 1: And to me it talks a lot about mindset, mind frame and how you let it affect you.
• 10:53
  It was almost 1: Because I've had people tell me it's the worst thing that's ever happened and that it hurt them for the rest of their lives.
• 10:57
  It was almost 1: And then I've heard other people tell me it's obviously it's bad.
• 11:01
  It was almost 1: Nobody thinks it's good, but that it didn't stop them.
• 11:04
  It was almost 1: And in fact, for some people, it actually made them do other things.
• 11:06
  It was almost 1: Like there's a famous story of a cartoonist who was going to be working in a farm for the rest of their life, but then went to camp and then realized that, no, I have to do what I want to do. I have to do what I think is amazing.
• 11:16
  It was almost 1: Yeah, I met George Takei, and he went to that camp as a little kid, and he moved on and become the one of the best Asian actor.
• 11:27
  It was almost 1: Yeah, he was on Star Trek.
• 11:28
  It was almost 1: Yeah.
• 11:29
  It was almost 1: Well, I mean, if you were moved from your house to a horse stall, how would that make you feel?
• 11:35
  It was almost 1: First of all, you have to pack everything.
• 11:38
  It was almost 1: And pack everything.
• 11:39
  It was almost 1: Is that 24 hours?
• 11:40
  It was almost 1: Well, I think it depended on on where you were some places.
• 11:44
  It was almost 1: Yeah. Had very short amount of time then had some people, some places had more than a couple like a couple of weeks and stuff.
• 11:48
  It was almost 1: But yeah you had to pack everything.
• 11:50
  It was almost 1: Okay. We have fire in my area and we had to evacuate in four hours.
• 11:57
  It was almost 1: I got five socks.
• 12:00
  It was almost 1: But that's all you brought?
• 12:02
  It was almost 1: Yeah, I Had five socks and a cat and a dog and kids.
• 12:05
  It was almost 1: Okay.
• 12:05
  It was almost 1: And like, okay, what am I going to do with the fifth sock?
• 12:10
  It was almost 1: And then I knew I was able to go back.
• 12:13
  It was almost 1: Yeah.
• 12:13
  It was almost 1: But for these people they can't go back.
• 12:16
  It was almost 1: Yeah.
• 12:16
  It was almost 1: And they don't know how long.
• 12:18
  It was almost 1: You know, they'll be at the camp.
• 12:19
  It was almost 1: I mean, I, I just can't imagine.
• 12:21
  It was almost 1: And you had to get rid of everything.
• 12:23
  It was almost 1: Yeah. Or sell it. Or.
• 12:24
  It was almost 1: Sell it. Or do something.
• 12:26
  It was almost 1: Give it to someone.
• 12:27
  It was almost 1: Or abandon it.
• 12:28
  It was almost 1: Yeah.
• 12:28
  It was almost 1: Right. Yeah. You know, as a father, things are different.
• 12:31
  It was almost 1: When I was Yuri's age or when I was older.
• 12:33
  It was almost 1: It's just me. I think it would be easier.
• 12:35
  It was almost 1: But the moment you own a house and then you get all the crap that you have in a house, and then you have kids and you have to worry about their kids.
• 12:42
  It was almost 1: And I mean, that's that's becomes a lot harder to, I think, to move and to to pack everything that you own and then move into a horse stall.
• 12:48
  It was almost 1: I mean, what do you think? What do you think about learning about having people live in horse stalls?
• 12:52
  It was almost 1: That's so wrong.
• 12:55
  It was almost 1: But then. Yet, Yuri, it sounded like she's having a.
• 12:59
  It was almost 1: Vacation almost.
• 13:00
  It was almost 1: I mean, I shouldn't say that maybe, but, like, it seems so positive coming from her diary.
• 13:06
  It was almost 1: I think that's what was amazing about this early part of her diary was how positive she was. And, you know, obviously these are like, you know, these are terrible things that have happened. I mean, I don't think we talked about this, but her father was taken.
• 13:17
  It was almost 1: Oh, yes, Right after Pearl Harbor.
• 13:19
  It was almost 1: And he was essentially missing from their lives.
• 13:22
  It was almost 1: And they didn't know where he was.
• 13:23
  It was almost 1: And yet when you listen to these, these words and read her words, you you wouldn't even notice.
• 13:29
  It was almost 1: Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:31
  It was almost 1: Her dad was taken somewhere and then he returned home.
• 13:36
  It was almost 1: And then the next day, well, he was supposed to be in the hospital, but the next day he passed away.
• 13:42
  It was almost 1: Yeah. And she doesn't mention about him.
• 13:45
  It was almost 1: And she must be a really strong person.
• 13:49
  It was almost 1: That's what I guess I see.
• 13:50
  It was almost 1: And also, she's so compassionate.
• 13:52
  It was almost 1: She cares about others so much.
• 13:55
  It was almost 1: Yes.
• 13:55
  It was almost 1: Not selfish person like me.
• 14:00
  It was almost 1: One of the most noteworthy parts of the diary is that insight to what life was actually like in Santa Anita.
• 14:08
  It was almost 1: Here are some experts that we thought were particularly interesting.
• 14:13
  It was almost 1: April 3rd Friday.
• 14:15
  It was almost 1: It was very dark outside.
• 14:17
  It was almost 1: The ground was wet and muddy.
• 14:19
  It was almost 1: After groping through the darkness and slush, I found the restroom about a block away. I was glad no one was there as there is so little privacy, if any, with no doors.
• 14:30
  It was almost 1: It's quite embarrassing.
• 14:32
  It was almost 1: June 15th.
• 14:33
  It was almost 1: Monday seems like more ghost stories have been spreading around in camp.
• 14:38
  It was almost 1: The newest is that a supposed ghost was stalking near the blue mess hall.
• 14:43
  It was almost 1: Seems so childish for people to believe such tales and yet amazing how many actually do take it in. July 4th.
• 14:51
  It was almost 1: Saturday. Another big day.
• 14:53
  It was almost 1: Track meet. Wrestling.
• 14:54
  It was almost 1: Boxing. Judo.
• 14:56
  It was almost 1: Gymnastics. Baseball and softball.
• 14:58
  It was almost 1: Quite an extensive sports program with big turnouts for each event an affair Santa Anita evacuees will long remember.
• 15:06
  It was almost 1: At night, the big dance.
• 15:07
  It was almost 1: Hundreds of couples and still a greater number of stags all joining together in response to the Fanita 4th of July celebration.
• 15:15
  It was almost 1: In that same July 4th entry, Yuri mentions a boy that she thought was cute and it reminded me that she was still only 21 years old.
• 15:22
  It was almost 1: Rocky was there too.
• 15:23
  It was almost 1: And yes, he's a good dancer.
• 15:25
  It was almost 1: Bean Takeda was there too.
• 15:27
  It was almost 1: Kept looking at him, but don't think he'd remember me anyways.
• 15:30
  It was almost 1: Koji, what stands out to you about these?
• 15:33
  It was almost 1: One thing that stands out to me is something that I've always admired about the Japanese American community, and the Japanese Americans that were going through that situation was that a lot of these people made the best of a bad situation.
• 15:42
  It was almost 1: You know, obviously they've lost their home, they've lost other their possessions, they've lost their freedoms, but they still try to make a community.
• 15:50
  It was almost 1: Right. They had dances, they had baseball, they had all these different things.
• 15:53
  It was almost 1: And that's one of the things that I take away from, from this whole reading of the diary and just from the whole experience is that even though they locked up the community, they were still made a community.
• 16:03
  It was almost 1: And that's what really, really shone through in, in her diary to me.
• 16:07
  It was almost 1: What about you? What did you think.
• 16:08
  It was almost 1: It sounded like? There are more of a Japanese community then Yuri knows all the Japanese people from different communities.
• 16:18
  It was almost 1: She's like, oh, that's somebody, somebody from Rancho Penasquitos.
• 16:21
  It was almost 1: Maybe not Rancho Penasquitos, but like, um, oh, she's somebody, somebody from Cheviot Hills or like, that's amazing because they didn't have a cell phone.
• 16:32
  It was almost 1: Like, how does she know everybody?
• 16:34
  It was almost 1: Did you know That they had all these things going on in the camps?
• 16:36
  It was almost 1: Yeah. I did not know.
• 16:38
  It was almost 1: Like dances.
• 16:39
  It was almost 1: Like what? That is so American because growing up in Japan, we don't we have bon dance, but not dance.
• 16:46
  It was almost 1: Dance like boys and girls.
• 16:48
  It was almost 1: No no no no no.
• 16:51
  It was almost 1: So that's very American.
• 16:53
  It was almost 1: Yeah, Yeah. And then she also spot some boys who look more Caucasian than Japanese.
• 17:00
  It was almost 1: Hapa.
• 17:00
  It was almost 1: Yeah. Hapa. And but they were there because they got Japanese blood.
• 17:05
  It was almost 1: If you have any blood, you're you're in the camp.
• 17:07
  It was almost 1: Well, what was kind of neat for me, one of the other things was that she was looking at the guy. Rocky, I guess.
• 17:13
  It was almost 1: Or. No, it was a Bean or rocky one of those two, anyway, that she couldn't just go talk to him because it's a different time period, right?
• 17:20
  It was almost 1: Like girls didn't go up to boys and just start talking and asking him to dances.
• 17:24
  It was almost 1: That was a that was a different thing because now, I mean, if I had a daughter, I don't have a daughter, but if I had a daughter, I'd be like, just go talk to him.
• 17:30
  It was almost 1: Why do you have to stare at him from far away?
• 17:31
  It was almost 1: But back then it was just different.
• 17:33
  It was almost 1: But I also like that Yuri and her friends made all kind of cheers.
• 17:40
  It was almost 1: Yeah, Yeah. And with the hit songs from the 40s.
• 17:43
  It was almost 1: Yeah. What struck me most from Yuri's diary is her mindset at the start of her incarceration, how it evolved from the beginning to the end.
• 17:52
  It was almost 1: Here are some excerpts that we thought showed her mindset in the beginning and how it evolved.
• 17:56
  It was almost 1: May 12th Tuesday.
• 17:58
  It was almost 1: I'm slowly coming to understand the problems of the Japanese people problems.
• 18:02
  It was almost 1: I never gave much thought to the evacuations in itself and all the problems and conflicts that go with it. The positions many were resigned to give up the paycheck that is no longer there, the property and homes that had to be sold at such disadvantaged costs, the unfair dealings by those who were prejudiced, the plans and hopes that are now shattered, the loss of faith and other people.
• 18:25
  It was almost 1: The darkness of the future.
• 18:27
  It was almost 1: To look forward to the broken homes that were accounted for, the equality with other people and the freedoms that are now limited.
• 18:35
  It was almost 1: And yet I still believe it isn't what happens to you, it's what happens within you.
• 18:43
  It was almost 1: Sorrow and happiness.
• 18:44
  It was almost 1: Disappointment and success falls on everyone.
• 18:48
  It was almost 1: It's how did you take it?
• 18:51
  It was almost 1: May 13th. Wednesday.
• 18:53
  It was almost 1: I never gave much thought to the Japanese people.
• 18:55
  It was almost 1: I never thought of myself as being part of a nation so prejudiced.
• 19:00
  It was almost 1: I never gave much thought to that word nationality, or thought of people according to their race. But just that they were individuals.
• 19:10
  It was almost 1: I want to keep thinking that way that we're all Americans here.
• 19:13
  It was almost 1: If we feel it in our hearts that we're also individuals, not representative of any nationalities traits, but representative of our own personality.
• 19:24
  It was almost 1: July 20th Monday.
• 19:26
  It was almost 1: This is my country and it'll always be my country no matter what happens.
• 19:32
  It was almost 1: Most likely, I'll be hated by the Japanese for thinking the way I do, and prejudiced and looked down on by the Americans because of my race.
• 19:40
  It was almost 1: But so what?
• 19:41
  It was almost 1: As long as I can refrain from ever hating anyone else, then the fight for my way of life was worth it.
• 19:49
  It was almost 1: September 9th.
• 19:50
  It was almost 1: Wednesday. Could hardly believe that public sentiment could be so strong against the Japanese Americans.
• 19:58
  It was almost 1: But not until I myself actually come up against prejudice and discrimination will I really understand the problems of the Nisei.
• 20:06
  It was almost 1: When that time comes, I hope I can take it without blaming anyone else, or whining, and hope I can still cling to the ideals I once set before me and deep within still feel that I'm as American.
• 20:20
  It was almost 1: What's particularly interesting about the last September 9th entry is that Yuri includes 14 rejection letters that she was given from a friend who was trying to go to nursing school outside of Santa Anita.
• 20:33
  It was almost 1: Here are two examples of these letters.
• 20:36
  It was almost 1: For Saint Anthony Hospital, Denver, Colorado.
• 20:40
  It was almost 1: While we realize that there are loyal American Japanese, we do not believe that it would be good policy to admit them to our school of nursing and so on.
• 20:49
  It was almost 1: Seven Trinity Hospital, Jamestown, North Dakota.
• 20:53
  It was almost 1: I have given your application considerable thought, and it seems to me you might find a good deal of opposition from patients who are incensed at the Japanese for their attack upon the US. And while you state that you are 100% American, yet there are those who do not hesitate to insult you and refuse to allow you to care for them just on that principle.
• 21:14
  It was almost 1: In the third To last entry in the journal, we see Yuri's mind changing.
• 21:18
  It was almost 1: September 11th Friday.
• 21:20
  It was almost 1: Yes, it's time that the Japanese people from the time they came here have had raw deals, one after the other.
• 21:28
  It was almost 1: And it's true.
• 21:29
  It was almost 1: They've tried to find for equality and chances for good positions, but lost out because of racial prejudice.
• 21:35
  It was almost 1: Yet the Issei sought to it that their children would be educated.
• 21:39
  It was almost 1: Sacrifices meant nothing to them and thus their.
• 21:43
  It was almost 1: The span of 20 and 30 years, the majority of nieces have received more than just high school educations.
• 21:49
  It was almost 1: They've made good grades in school.
• 21:51
  It was almost 1: Their standards have been high.
• 21:53
  It was almost 1: Yet what happened when they went into the outside world?
• 21:57
  It was almost 1: Racial prejudice and discrimination told them that the school world and the work world were two different hemispheres, that what Caucasian teachers tried to instill in every student was only meant for the Caucasians, that the Black and Orientals would be looked down upon, that obstacles would be many.
• 22:15
  It was almost 1: And how natural, then, that bitterness seeped into the hearts of the great percentage of Nisei long before the war broke out.
• 22:23
  It was almost 1: Yet, just as Maruyama said, the Nisei love and loyalty, in spite of what their parents and themselves have gone through, rests in the heart of America.
• 22:32
  It was almost 1: Deep within, below the bitterness and the hurt, lies hope and faith in the America that is theirs. As I listened to her, I'm sure something gripped me and touched me in such a way that I feel I want to fight shoulder to shoulder with every Nisei for the right to the same opportunities as the Caucasians.
• 22:52
  It was almost 1: I can't do much, but I can do the little thing in my capacity to help and build what has been torn from them.
• 23:00
  It was almost 1: That's a lot, Michelle.
• 23:01
  It was almost 1: Do you see the beginning of the Activist?
• 23:02
  It was almost 1: Yuri is going to become?
• 23:03
  It was almost 1: Yeah, I mean, I see already had that character very compassionate.
• 23:09
  It was almost 1: She always thinking about other people.
• 23:11
  It was almost 1: And I could see she's really becoming an activist.
• 23:16
  It was almost 1: In the beginning. She's very American and she's very trusting.
• 23:19
  It was almost 1: And she believes, I think, that the government is doing the best.
• 23:23
  It was almost 1: And I feel by the end of the camp and, sorry, end of Santa Anita part of the camp, she seems to have changed a little.
• 23:31
  It was almost 1: I mean, did you get that sense, too?
• 23:32
  It was almost 1: In what way?
• 23:33
  It was almost 1: I don't like she's she's seeing like injustice done to people around her that she cares about. And I think that really set her to become an activist.
• 23:44
  It was almost 1: Yeah. What's weird is that the injustice was literally happening to her.
• 23:47
  It was almost 1: But what was interesting to me was that she saw these injustices happening to other people, like the nurse, you know, the nurse letters.
• 23:55
  It was almost 1: And that's why she included in her in her diary.
• 23:57
  It was almost 1: And it was weird that she had to include that, like it wasn't just the bad enough that she lost her home that her father essentially got was killed or, you know, and that she lost everything. And she had to move to Santa Anita in a horse stall.
• 24:08
  It was almost 1: But none of that really changed her.
• 24:10
  It was almost 1: But then seeing like her friends and seeing what was happening to them and what was happening at the nursing station and, you know, one, one story that I wanted to bring up that that we don't mention here because it just wasn't enough time.
• 24:21
  It was almost 1: But World War One veteran, do you remember that?
• 24:23
  It was almost 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:24
  It was almost 1: Where a guy, an older gentleman was in was in the hospital and she was a nurse, and, you know, no one was there for him because he was all alone.
• 24:32
  It was almost 1: I think he was from England even.
• 24:33
  It was almost 1: Right. Or I mean, he was Japanese.
• 24:35
  It was almost 1: He moved to England and then he moved to the United States.
• 24:37
  It was almost 1: And he was a World War veteran and one veteran.
• 24:39
  It was almost 1: And it really struck her that no one was there, even though he had fought for this country, and that that was something that I thought was really, really powerful.
• 24:47
  It was almost 1: You know, I hate I hate wars, of course, but like, I mean, when the war is happening, yes, there's an enemy, but it's not that person who is from that country who is bad.
• 25:01
  It was almost 1: I don't know how to put that together, but.
• 25:03
  It was almost 1: No, no, it makes sense. I mean, the Constitution doesn't say if you're if you look like the person who bombed you, then you have no rights, right?
• 25:11
  It was almost 1: Yeah.
• 25:11
  It was almost 1: Yuri was an American citizen.
• 25:13
  It was almost 1: Yeah, she was a Nisei, right.
• 25:14
  It was almost 1: So she's an American citizen.
• 25:16
  It was almost 1: So you're taught in school that if you're an American citizen, you get all the rights of being an American.
• 25:21
  It was almost 1: Yeah. She was. I mean, yeah, she was born here and everything.
• 25:23
  It was almost 1: And also Hawaii was like a, um.
• 25:27
  It was almost 1: How do you call those the, uh, Territory?
• 25:30
  It was almost 1: Yeah. Hawaii was the territory of the United States, but it wasn't the United States.
• 25:37
  It was almost 1: So, like.
• 25:38
  It was almost 1: If you bomb a territory, it's still a bombing.
• 25:40
  It was almost 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I Know, but I mean, are there's other I don't know, I don't want to go too, too deep on this.
• 25:47
  It was almost 1: But like, there are some, you know, famous occasion bombing happened on the land of America and like, was anybody been to concentration camp because of that?
• 25:59
  It was almost 1: To be clear, there were Germans and Italians who were incarcerated during World War two, but they were they had either expressed, um, disloyalty or they were suspected disloyalty.
• 26:10
  It was almost 1: What the big difference here was that in Japanese Americans was all Japanese Americans living on the West Coast, like somebody like my grandfather.
• 26:18
  It was almost 1: My grandfather worked for the Japanese consulate in Honolulu.
• 26:21
  It was almost 1: He was going to be arrested no matter what, right, because he just he was a Nisei, but he was still going to be arrested no matter what.
• 26:26
  It was almost 1: But Yuri is a 21 year old in San Pedro, California.
• 26:30
  It was almost 1: Nothing to do with government, nothing to do with Japan, nothing to do with Pearl Harbor like that. Doesn't make any sense, right?
• 26:36
  It was almost 1: That's that's the part. That's the Tragedy.
• 26:38
  It was almost 1: Yeah, but yet She's still, like, compassionate about other people.
• 26:42
  It was almost 1: Not to herself.
• 26:43
  It was almost 1: That's so amazing.
• 26:44
  It was almost 1: Yeah.
• 26:45
  It was almost 1: She reincarnated and reincarnated many times before she become her, I don't know, born Again, born again, born again.
• 26:54
  It was almost 1: I mean, one of the big changes I saw in her from the diary was that in the beginning, I felt she was a little naive, you know, I don't know.
• 27:02
  It was almost 1: I mean, all I have is the diary and all I know is about her at the end, but it just felt like she didn't know a lot about the world.
• 27:08
  It was almost 1: And, you know, it was felt very much like like when she was pro kind of government and pro what's going on.
• 27:13
  It was almost 1: And she and to be clear, she was never okay with the incarceration, I don't think I'm not saying that by any means, but I think she was just kind of like, well, they must know something. They must think that we it's good for us.
• 27:23
  It was almost 1: And I think at the end, I think just by being going through it, she became more mature. Um, she had a job, right?
• 27:30
  It was almost 1: She was. She was a nurse assistant.
• 27:32
  It was almost 1: It right. And she I think seeing kind of death and birth and everything in between and living in the camps and, you know, doing all these things, I think it really it matured her and she started seeing the things and seeing injustices in ways that, that she hadn't seen before.
• 27:48
  It was almost 1: And to go back to, you know, what we talked about earlier, which is the the mindset, you know, um, had she not gone through this experience, I don't think she would have.
• 27:56
  It was almost 1: Become.
• 27:57
  It was almost 1: And true, true. And also, like, I think her seeing like living and death at the hospital, that really helped her mature more.
• 28:08
  It was almost 1: Yeah. She had a Job, right?
• 28:09
  It was almost 1: I mean, probably I think this was her first job.
• 28:11
  It was almost 1: This sounded like I mean, I don't know for a fact, but it sounded like her first job.
• 28:14
  It was almost 1: So it sounded like this was really her first time being an adult.
• 28:18
  It was almost 1: And that probably has something to do with why she kind of changed over the course of the the diary. Is there anything else you wanted to say about the diary?
• 28:24
  It was almost 1: Oh my gosh, I love notebooks.
• 28:28
  It was almost 1: You work in a notebook place.
• 28:29
  It was almost 1: I Know, I know, and I'm like, oh my gosh, how this is amazing.
• 28:33
  It was almost 1: Because, um, diary was well kept.
• 28:36
  It was almost 1: Yes.
• 28:36
  It was almost 1: Because, you know, I thought the paper might be like bad, um, might like, might be eaten by moth or something, but it's, it looks so, you know, pristine.
• 28:47
  It was almost 1: And I think she used fountain pen.
• 28:50
  It was almost 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I love I love stationery.
• 28:55
  It was almost 1: Was was there anything else.
• 28:57
  It was almost 1: No. I don't know.
• 28:58
  It was almost 1: Like the handwriting is so neat and oh my gosh, I don't think I'm going to be an activist or anything, but I'm going to burn my diary before I die.
• 29:10
  It was almost 1: Why?
• 29:10
  It was almost 1: Because I'm not like her.
• 29:12
  It was almost 1: I'm like, all my every entry is a little bit too selfish.
• 29:16
  It was almost 1: Yeah, I mean, that's something that we should mention, you know, I mean, this diary wasn't for publication. So when we read her thoughts, we're just reading somebody's thoughts that didn't expect it to be read.
• 29:26
  It was almost 1: And I do think that that's a that's an important consideration when you're looking at it. You know that to me it feels as a writer, right?
• 29:33
  It was almost 1: It feels a little bit more honest.
• 29:35
  It was almost 1: Even as a writer.
• 29:36
  It was almost 1: I know that if I'm writing for publication, I'm going to write differently than if I'm writing for myself.
• 29:41
  It was almost 1: When I read her words, it felt truer.
• 29:43
  It was almost 1: It felt like I had a better sense of what was going on in camp.
• 29:46
  It was almost 1: You know, one of the problems with studying about the concentration camps or or talking to people who are in the camps 50 years later, is that everything gets colored right in terms of like how you remember what you remember.
• 29:56
  It was almost 1: And also, I think she edited some of the words, Yes, Maybe like the day after.
• 30:01
  It was almost 1: Also, it seems like she.
• 30:03
  It was almost 1: Like she crossed it out.
• 30:04
  It was almost 1: Yeah. She crossed it out and put a better word or two.
• 30:08
  It was almost 1: And I like that.
• 30:09
  It was almost 1: Like, ah, she's a good writer.
• 30:11
  It was almost 1: Actually. The other thing I was going to mention was one of my favorite parts was that she would be mean about something, and then the next day she'd apologize about being mean or depressing about something.
• 30:20
  It was almost 1: And I thought that was really cute, that she was so worried about how she came off.
• 30:24
  It was almost 1: Yeah, other people's Feelings.
• 30:25
  It was almost 1: Even in a diary which nobody was going to read, which is very Japanese.
• 30:30
  It was almost 1: Yeah.
• 30:33
  It was almost 1: Every episode. We need to do something fun.
• 30:35
  It was almost 1: Let's talk about food in camp, so I'll go first.
• 30:38
  It was almost 1: When I used to talk to my father about camp, all he would ever say to me was like, camp food was bad and that's all he would say.
• 30:44
  It was almost 1: Like, that's like literally the only memory he had of camp was that the food was bad.
• 30:49
  It was almost 1: Well, I think he remembers the day that fish was served.
• 30:53
  It was almost 1: Yeah. I mean, he wasn't santa anita, but yeah, he just Remembers all.
• 30:57
  It was almost 1: Because Yuri's diary mentioned about the fish that was served.
• 31:01
  It was almost 1: And the next day.
• 31:02
  It was almost 1: Everyone was sick.
• 31:03
  It was almost 1: Not even, not even next day, like during the night, people are like, going in and out to the bathroom and hear the moaning because of the thin walls.
• 31:13
  It was almost 1: It was Interesting that they also talk about they had a steak dinner one Night.
• 31:16
  It was almost 1: And a Steak dinner and then like, oh, and then Yuri says there's a Japanese dinner served. And I don't think none of those things were Japanese, like mashed potatoes.
• 31:28
  It was almost 1: I don't I don't know exactly, but like, oh, she's like older people.
• 31:32
  It was almost 1: Is going to love these food.
• 31:34
  It was almost 1: Or older people must have enjoyed that dinner that night because they were Japanese and I can't remember exactly what it was, but I don't think they were Japanese.
• 31:45
  It was almost 1: Japanese.
• 31:46
  It was almost 1: Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, Japanese American food is not is not super Japanese in general.
• 31:51
  It was almost 1: Like, she's Like, oh, soy sauce was there.
• 31:53
  It was almost 1: So that made everything taste Japanese, I guess.
• 31:56
  It was almost 1: I don't know. Because all the Japanese tourists that come to America, they always bring like little packages of soy sauce.
• 32:04
  It was almost 1: They do.
• 32:04
  It was almost 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they put it on steaks and everything.
• 32:08
  It was almost 1: So it sounds like home.
• 32:11
  It was almost 1: That's like my, my relatives, when they come from Japan, all they want to eat is Japanese food.
• 32:14
  It was almost 1: Japanese. Yeah.
• 32:15
  It was almost 1: And I'm like, why do you come from Japan and eat.
• 32:17
  It was almost 1: Come here and eat Japanese food.
• 32:18
  It was almost 1: That's like me going to Japan and only McDonald's or.
• 32:20
  It was almost 1: McDonald's.
• 32:21
  It was almost 1: Like, why do I? I'm going to Japan.
• 32:22
  It was almost 1: I'm gonna eat good food.
• 32:24
  It was almost 1: I don't want to eat McDonald's or Denny's or something.
• 32:27
  It was almost 1: Oh, but. Japanese Denny's are good.
• 32:29
  It was almost 1: I know, I'm just joking.
• 32:30
  It was almost 1: I mean, like Yoshinoya.
• 32:31
  It was almost 1: Yoshinoya.
• 32:32
  It was almost 1: In Japan is way better than here.
• 32:34
  It was almost 1: Yeah, yeah, Here is.
• 32:35
  It was almost 1: I mean. Here is.
• 32:36
  It was almost 1: Okay, but.
• 32:38
  It was almost 1: You're being so nice.
• 32:39
  It was almost 1: Oh, Okay. Was there anything else in the food that you wanted to talk about?
• 32:44
  It was almost 1: Yes. That steaks like.
• 32:45
  It was almost 1: Wow. I mean, I don't know, like because my dad was growing up in Japan during that time and I don't think they were having steaks at home.
• 32:55
  It was almost 1: No. Probably not.
• 32:56
  It was almost 1: No.
• 32:56
  It was almost 1: Yeah.
• 32:57
  It was almost 1: Yeah. My, um, I don't know, it sounds, I mean, ah, war is terrible, but, um, that food sounded really nice.
• 33:08
  It was almost 1: I think she. Made it sound better.
• 33:09
  It was almost 1: I mean, mostly from the people I've ever spoken to.
• 33:12
  It was almost 1: They they remember it being pretty terrible.
• 33:14
  It was almost 1: I mean, even I remember one, one person telling me that they made curry a lot.
• 33:18
  It was almost 1: Curry because it would mask the the bad meat, right.
• 33:23
  It was almost 1: Or the meat that wasn't super great.
• 33:25
  It was almost 1: So, you know, things like that they could do.
• 33:28
  It was almost 1: So, you know, I think that there's I think that Yuri was being positive.
• 33:32
  It was almost 1: I mean, they probably did have steak.
• 33:33
  It was almost 1: I mean, obviously they did have steak, but, you know, the fish was probably more common or, you know, where they're doing.
• 33:39
  It was almost 1: Not so good.
• 33:41
  It was almost 1: Thank you Sierra for your wonderful reading and all of you for listening.
• 33:45
  It was almost 1: There are almost 3 million podcasts, and we are honored that you've chosen ours to listen to.
• 33:51
  It was almost 1: This podcast is a program of the Japanese American National Museum.
• 33:55
  It was almost 1: The mission of the museum is to promote understanding and appreciation of America's ethnic and cultural diversity by sharing the Japanese American experience.
• 34:02
  It was almost 1: For more information about Jamn's Online Collections page linked to this show notes.
• 34:07
  It was almost 1: Be sure to join us next month where we'll talk about The Karate Kid.
• 34:11
  It was almost 1: That sounds super fun. Bye.
• 34:14
  It was almost 1: Bye.