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Episode #87: Grow & Eat Your Own Vaccines? · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need all of that to be able to make a decision.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just look at who's driving this, who's in the driver's seat, and it's just it's the same folks that gave us margarine, it's the same folks that gave us DDT, it's the same folks that, you know, all this.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, a man is known by his friends, and these are all friends in the same uh in the same fraternity.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another broadcast of uh Beyond Labels with uh Joel Salaton, that would be me, uh, the farmer, and uh our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is part three today of a livestock mRNA analysis dealing with.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Those of you who are watching the news are realizing that the livestock industry is heading Pell Mell, and it seems to be, into mRNA genetic, uh genetic injections.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: We really don't know what to call it because it's it's not really a vaccine, because it's not it's not uh natural living material that's just manipulated, it's actual DNA uh genetic reconstruction.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and maybe I didn't say that right, Cena will correct me if I didn't say it right, but the point is we're all struggling with the language.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: This stuff is also new, and of course the industry wants to make it look like, well, this is just what we've been doing forever, just like they did with genetically modified organisms.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's no difference, there's no change.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's all, you know, it's all the same as we've ever done.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so right now, uh we're we're we admit that we're struggling with the kind of phraseology uh that makes it easy to converse about it, you know, without getting wrapped up in, you know, in 10 words at a time.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So for now, we'll just call it genetically manipulated uh uh injections uh for livestock.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: There are actually, I think, five states now that have legislation in states to ban uh this.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So there are numerous states that are on the cutting edge of this watching this, uh concerned about it.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and it's been it's been encouraged, as we mentioned in in part one and part two, it's been um incentivized due to the consumer backlash about subtherapeutic antibiotic use.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so the industry, which has such a horrible uh uh uh track record in health, hygiene, and sanitation, and in concentrated animal feeding operations, factory farms, filth and chemicals, and nutrient deficiency in their animals, they're stretching for something to substitute for what they've been doing, which is the subtherapeutic use of antibiotics.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is the natural next progression as they reach for that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that little uh kind of uh recap and background, I'm gonna turn it over to Dr.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Cena to bring us.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've been talking about animals, and today we're gonna pick up a couple of questions we got from the earlier podcast and then dive right into the mRNA um um manipulation in plants.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Joel.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I would add that um, so you said there's five bills that are proposed in different states or five different states proposing bills.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not all to ban it, though.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like the Missouri House bill, for instance, that one is not trying to ban it.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're the the thinking behind it is they want to try to get something passed.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So they knew if they banned it, that would be too controversial.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So what they're going for is transparency, that it has to be labeled.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so um, and it's still, even though that's all they want is labeling, it's still causing a huge controversy, right?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So lots of money involved here, right?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so let's start out with those questions.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like Joel said, we're gonna jump into what they've what they've been doing for um about three decades now to manipulate plants to contain vaccines.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the first question um comes from, or it's actually a comment, it comes from Jimmy Hoffler.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Hey guys, I'm living outside a small city called Limerick in Ireland.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And over the last year, all the pharma companies you have spoken about today are building huge factories at breakneck speed.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel something underhanded is happening.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Regards Jimmy.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that could fall perfectly, we don't know.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're speculating here, but Joel, it's possible, right, that um scaling up these companies, these facilities, um, could have something to do with the fact that they are leaning more heavily towards vaccines, right?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: In the in the livestock.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, uh, for sure.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that would be that would be a natural if you've got a if you've got a global, you know, a global shift.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got a global shift toward a product, uh, there's gonna have to be a massive uh infrastructure build, you know, in order to service that kind of demand.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, I I we appreciate uh the eyes on the ground there in in Ireland and uh and uh have no reason to think that that this is that this is gonna be you know going away.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that is we we believe it's going to be uh coming on stronger.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, then the next question is from Janice Williams.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Joel and Cena.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering if the ag industry has been working for years to narrow genetic diversity in livestock feed and plant foods for human consumption, doesn't that increase the dangers by customizing these so-called vaccines?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: If we basically have one or two gene bases in a particular livestock or plant species, are we increasing dangers of catastrophic disease if there is a vaccine failure?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Either a mistake in sequencing RNA or an adverse reaction in a particular species due to an unknown genetic factor, couldn't that result in an extinction reaction to the said vaccine?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the old Dow chemical slogan, better living through chemicals, is wrong when it comes to medical solutions as well.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: In Christ Peace, JW.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you think, Joel?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, you know, uh if you if you listen to uh Dr.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Zach uh Bush, which I'm sure many of our listeners know about uh Zach Bush, um if you listen to him for five minutes, you'll realize that nature is so adaptive.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, just in our own microbiome, we have what uh uh one quadrillion of decisions being made by microbes per second.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean it it it's beyond the it's beyond the imagination.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so yes, this is the kind of of of um uh uh of adaptation and uh and and uh trade and communication uh you know at this uh at this microbial level, uh even uh you know lower than the micro I mean epigenetics, even even along the DNA strand there are relationships being formed.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and so at that level and at those quadrillions per second, uh to to think that we can actually uh uh you know create a you know some sort of long-lasting linear uh thing is just I mean look at look at the COVID variants.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how how long did that take?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and so the the whole idea of having something this predictable uh long term is um it doesn't make any sense.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would add that from a generalized perspective, right?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Increase anytime we're gonna decrease diversity, that's probably not gonna be a good thing.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look what happens with dogs when you breed them.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: You do, you know, more like closely breed them or interbreed them, you decrease diver diversity, increase disease issues.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it means some oftentimes it can mean there's increased susceptibility to things like superbugs or other pathogenic organisms.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look at the Irish potato famine, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was partly from the monoculture of you know planting the same type of potato.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when you decrease diversity, I think it's true that in general terms, there's less chance that the species can survive um, you know, amongst different challenges.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've already been doing that, right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And as as Janice has pointed out, we've already been decreasing the diversity.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the way I say it is we've kind of already set the stage for um, you know, more diseases to arise.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're already seeing that happening, especially in the you know, the industrial farming system.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we've already set the stage also for a decrease in resilience.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: So then you add in the vaccine, right?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens if you do actually change the genetics of the few remaining breeds that we're using, for instance, you know, in the food supply.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you could play devil's advocate and say, well, it's possible that you could increase the genetic diversity, right, by changing the genetics in kind of this backwards way thinking, but it likely is not gonna be a good thing, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's a small chance that maybe you change that genetics and um it had a beneficial effect way down the road, you know, but but it's likely not going to be a good thing to change the genetics of it.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um if it does cause some kind of negative consequence, it may show up in a generation or two or three later, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't even know if they if the if you're doing a test, right, clinical trial, and you're seeing, oh, the animals seem to fare okay, we don't know if that's changing the lineage.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it it could show up later, and like Janice is saying, it could actually increase their susceptibility to some kind of you know pathogen, um, for instance, and be easier to drive to extinction.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, to her point of if a vaccine is faulty or toxic or has the wrong sequence, then again, that could kill a species.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the damage, like I said, has we've kind of already set the stage for it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've already set them up to have a situation where they can be usually more easily knocked out by some kind of you know, new pathogen or superbug or whatnot, or even um if it might affect the fertility itself, right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't know any of that.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's one of the big problems in them just moving forward so quickly with this, is that these things have not been studied for long-term safety, um, certainly not generational.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there's merit to her question there, at least enough that we should be have a healthy dose of concern of for that topic and tread lightly in this area.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm I'm harking back to the old uh the old blue bonnet margarine.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Remember the old blue bonnet margarine ads?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's not nice to fool Mother Nature.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And isn't it isn't it interesting that that was that was uh given kind of tongue in cheek, you know, as an advertisement at the time.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And now now we know that it it truly wasn't nice to fool Mother Nature.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody wants to use margarine, uh hydrogenated vegetable oil.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so yeah, uh the the uh uh uh the the the people, the proponents of all this stuff, um the pro I mean for me the science is is is fascinating, but I don't need all of that to be able to make a decision.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just look at who's driving this, who's in the driver's seat, and it's just it's the same folks that gave us margarine, it's the same folks that gave us DDT, it's the same folks that, you know, all this.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, um yeah, you you're known a man is known by his friends, and uh, and these are all friends in the same uh in the same you know fraternity.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's go to plants, Tina.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so as we've already covered, they're doing this in animals, and now we're gonna talk about the genetic editing of plants to contain vaccines or injections.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's already underway.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: They've been working on getting vaccines into the plants for about three decades.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: They've been testing numerous plants, including bananas, potatoes, tomatoes, lettuce, rice, corn, wheat, soybeans, tobacco, alfalfa, and carrots, um, among others.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will say before we go into the types of plant vaccines, there's a couple of interesting uh quotes that I found in some of the studies that I was reading over the weekend, and I wanted to share them.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, in studying bananas, so they're trying to figure out, for instance, which plant type would be the best vehicle to deliver vaccines, okay?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what it what it said about bananas.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: The study said it doesn't need to be cooked, right?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: A banana doesn't need to be cooked.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes one of the concerns is that um cooking something will denature the proteins, so you will have less of an effect of the vaccine and maybe even no effect of the vaccine.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a study that showed this quote, proteins were not destroyed even after cooking.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, imagine what that's doing in your body, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another one said um this was telling to me of the direction that they're trying to go with these plant-based vaccines.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: It stated that rice has an advantage over other plants because it is, quote, commonly used in baby food.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So here, right, the thinking, the direction they're going to inoculate the babies through the food.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's one of the studies also cited a plant used for um vegetable, I'm sorry, veterinarian purposes in the food supply.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's alfalfa.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: They said alfalfa is used to develop edible vaccines for veterinarian purposes.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a transgenic alfalfa containing hog pest virus, glycoprotein, E2.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that was developed way back in 2005.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So they've been developing these plant-based vaccines, not only for human consumption, but also for our foods consumption.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's say now there's two different types of plant-based vaccines, okay, or plant vaccines.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: The first type, I'm just going to categorize that as a plant-based vaccine.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it could be uh also known as like a plant-derived vaccine.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is when the vaccine itself is produced in a similar way as a traditional inactivated vaccine, but the antigen is produced by the plant versus a different incubator.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's let's pause there in case not everybody's familiar with how vaccines work and just give a brief um introduction to how they work so that you understand how the plant one is different.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so most traditional vaccines they contain a weakened or an inactivated part of a particular organism, like a pathogen, all right, what they would call a pathogen.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that pathogen is the antigen.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's either the whole pathogen, it's usually a part of it that they have inactivated.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they call that the antigen.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: That is needed, that's the crux of the vaccine, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: They inject that into the body or give it to the body.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: There is an oral vaccine, but they give that to the body, and that antigen triggers an immune response within the body.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's supposed to help develop um memory to that um to that antigen, so that if you're exposed to that pathogen, your body can mount the proper immune response.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Then they develop the um mRNA vaccines.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Those actually teach the cell how to make a protein that's going to trigger the immune response.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So in that one, they're giving the genetic information to the body, putting that in the body, and your cells are actually reading that information, and you're making the protein or the antigen in the body.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Both ways, you need the antigen.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that is actually what triggers the immune response to produce, you know, the memory cells so that you can respond appropriately when actually exposed to said pathogen.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're doing the plant-based vaccines, uh, the plant is actually used as the incubator to make the antigen.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then the antigen is extracted from the plant, it's isolated and quote unquote purified and put into the injection.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so um the vaccine would be developed in the plant, but you're still having to deliver it through a shot.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So in a traditional vaccine, so let's say the flu vaccine, they usually use an incubator of a like a chicken egg, right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's very common for a flu vaccine.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's why you some if you have an egg allergy, for instance, you may not want to have the flu vaccine because it is incubated in a chicken egg.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So uh if you look at that vaccine, this is a very oversimplified explanation.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: The uh so to make this inactivated virus that would go into the flu vaccine, scientists use use like a chicken egg, they um grow the antigen in it by injecting the flu virus into a fertilized chicken egg, then they allow it to replicate, then they extract that virus-filled egg white, then they destroy the type, the part of the virus that they think infects the human, and it's that the antigen is what's left afterward.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then that antigen is put into the shot and given to you, and that's what your body recognizes as dangerous, and it produces the antibodies and you know the memory immune response to it.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think we can I think we can pretty much I think we can pretty much follow that.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh it's uh just it the the whole thing, yes, it's manipulated, but it is manipulated along a uh whatever, a a living strand, if you will, uh, you know, uh a living uh a base of living things.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um well viruses aren't technically uh considered living because they can't reproduce on their own.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, you the chicken egg is living.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, yes, that is absolutely true.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so now it's okay.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not you're not actually you're not actually manipulating uh DNA structure.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're simply letting you're simply injecting and letting and letting life here's my point, you're letting life respond to your uh manipulation in a in its own kind of in its own um non-manipulated way.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes, in a traditional vaccine, yes, yes, right.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they didn't actually manipulate the DNA, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, in the mRNA, they did, right?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then now in the plant-based one, um, yes, they are forcing the plant to actually make the antigen.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and so this is already in progress.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the process of growing these plant vaccines is called molecular farming.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: There have been clinical trials performed on plant vaccines for COVID-19 and for the flu.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, from what I was able to find, in February of 2022, Canadian regulators actually approved a plant-based COVID-19 vaccine.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was called COVIDS, and it was made by a Quebec-based biotechnology company called Medicago.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: They collaborated with Glaxo Smith Klein, which is a drug maker, and it was actually approved for use in adults aged 18 through 64.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a two-dose vaccine, and they claimed it had 71% efficacy.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, as of February of 2022, that vaccine was in phase three clinical trials, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: When you're trying to get a drug or vaccine to market, there's three phases, and phase three is the last phase.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes there's a phase four, but that's post-marketing, right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: After it's been used by people.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So this was already in phase three clinical trials in 2022.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the company had claimed that they were hopeful the vaccine would be available in the US and Canada soon.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, our good old pals at the FDA, they granted a fast track designation for the vaccine.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, from what I can tell, the vaccine was actually never launched.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure what actually happened, but the parent company who owns Medicago did announce in February of this year that it was actually shutting down Metacago.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if it got picked up by another company or a subdivision of their company, but that one was shut down.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: To my knowledge, there is one plant based vaccine that has been FDA approved for humans, and that's for Goucher's disease, which is a very rare disease.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that is the summation of the plant based vaccines or what I call the plant derived vaccines.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Where the plant is just making the vaccine, um, and they're taking the taking the antigen out of the plant and they're still injecting it into the human.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: The second type of plant vaccines that they have created are called edible plant vaccines.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is when the plant itself is the vaccine.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you eat the plant and it triggers an immune response.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the gene, the way it works is that the gene that codes the active antigen protein is isolated from the pathogen.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's placed in a gene vehicle, which is then inserted into the DNA of the plant.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And once there, it expresses that corresponding antigen.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So those plants are then fed directly to the animal or to the human.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So in a nutshell, the plant is genetically modified to produce an antigen.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then you eat those immune modulating chemicals when you eat the plant itself.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now it almost sounds like we're talking about some kind of sci-fi movie that I watched over the weekend, you know?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh it's really uh it's really almost out of the yeah, it's it's almost beyond your imagination.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, but to think, I mean, like I said, they've been working on this idea for like 30 years.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So so this is already in the testing phase.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm gonna give you some information to back that statement.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: One of the recent articles I found, um, and uh when this was from posted at University of California at Riverside, it was from September 2021.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: The title of this article is Grow and Eat Your Own Vaccines.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: He says the future of vaccines may look more like eating a salad than getting a shot in the arm.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it talks about how the one of the professors, this is the goal.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: He said, ideally, a single plant would produce enough mRNA to vaccinate a single person.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: It says they're testing this approach with spinach and lettuce.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: They have long-term goals of people growing it in their own gardens.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: They say farmers could also eventually grow entire fields of it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, Joel, is that your goal?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to grow an entire field of edible vaccines?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I uh that that's not that's not on our uh that's not on our to-do list.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so that was a study, uh, an article from UC Riverside.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And what I like to do when I'm kind of slushing through, you know, sleuthing through the information, I'm trying to figure out just some fact from fiction.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I go to the scientific articles, right?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because those have a little more validity.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of issues with scientific articles, but a little more validity than just a news article or a blog statement, right?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Peer reviewed, they had an editor, it this is in print.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I found some information, two studies, one from 2014, one from 2019.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And already the one from 2019 said this, and I quote, there were quite a lot of plant-based vaccines that have been developed, and most of them are at clinical trial phase.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the plant-based plant plant-based vaccines were against viruses and bacteria that affect humans, animals, as well as poultry.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like there's an edible vaccine for E.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: coli, for instance, and in 2019, it was already in phase one.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's an edible vaccine for HBV.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: In 2019, it was already in phase two.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it did say that these are the diseases.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a list of diseases that they are targeting to have edible vaccines against: rabies, hepatitis B, AIDS, cholera, cancer, um, gastroenteritis, Alzheimer's disease, colon cancer, measles, malaria, and type 1 diabetes.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they're targeting what they're calling infectious diseases and also chronic diseases through edible vaccines.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, um, the 2014 study said that um it said this among other food crops with potential to be developed as edible vaccines are sweet potatoes, peanuts, lettuce, watermelon, and carrots.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the top priority.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: The development of plant-based vaccines to protect against many other diseases, such as hepatitis B, rabies, and non-Hopkins lymphoma, are ongoing throughout the globe using one of these edible plants.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so this is kind of a two-pronged.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're going for in chronic and acute um diseases, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So this is, like I said, they've got to jump on us right now.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're just we're just finding out about this.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they've been doing this for about 30 years.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Joel, I remember talking to you about um plant-based vaccines, plants as a delivery system of vaccines, maybe a year or so ago.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think you might have even logged about it, and people were like, oh, conspiracy theory, that's not actually what they're using them for.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: You've got it, you've got it wrong.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: But clearly we don't.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's in published in the scientific literature that this is what they're already doing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so it does, you know, it does give you pause about just ubiquitous, you know.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: How do you sort it out?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, so you're buying your food, uh, if there's no labeling requirement, if there's nothing like that, um you know, you you start into this kind of ubiquitous, you know, this ubiquitous um just uh contamination, if you will.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: For those of us that don't think this is a good idea, um you know, you start into this this thing.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was reading an article this uh this weekend actually, um, and and the question that it posed was how many how many um crises could we have averted if we just waited until we actually knew.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh now, you know, no, we're we're not against innovation.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, neither one of us is against innovation.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're starting down these paths, the uh I mean I mean look look at look at the look at the FOIA, the Freedom of Information Act material now that's coming out about the the COVID vaccines and the the sterility in the rats, the extra uh tumors uh in the in the rat trials.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: None of this none of this came to light during the the rush uh to to get it out.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so um so there is a uh especially when you're dealing with this kind of thing.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's one thing to uh you know, to rush out a you know, a machine is quite another to rush out something that's that dealing with this fundamental you know, fundamental manipulation of the actual structure of life.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and and and of course this is part of the problem with um you know with all the the the green the green energy incentives right now.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean this is a a totally different topic, but but uh you know, if if uh if oil uh was just if there were no subsidies for oil and if it were just priced the way it had to be, then as it starts to deplete, uh there would be a lot of natural research into other things.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it's very interesting to me because I I'm very interested in in energy, because here on the farm we you know we use a lot of energy.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um and I'm I'm uh I'm really uh struck by the amount of of um of research that's developing around uh hydrogen, th to use hydrogen as an energy as opposed to you know uh electric um you know uh solar and uh wind power.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and and so so the problem is you run Pell Mel into something before it's actually vetted, and then you spend generations trying to pick up the pieces from what you you know from what you innovated.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um so nobody here is against creativity, we're not against innovation, but uh, but we are concerned about running Pell Mel into something before it's been vetted.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree a hundred percent.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the for me, the issue is they drum up fear, right?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Fear is the great motivator, right?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you want someone to do something, you make them afraid.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we're doing, I feel like we're running the world based on fear, and when you're afraid, you're you're you're easy to manipulate.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you don't tend to look at long-term unintended consequences, right?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what Joel and I are talking about here is that we're not against innovation, but we're for smart innovation, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like think it through.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, think of what the unintended consequences might be instead of just jumping and then reacting to the unintended consequences, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: So um, just as an example, I'm gonna give a couple examples.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: These are from the published studies that I have been referencing.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: This was the one from 2014.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it says um, it's still unclear whether the edible vaccines would be regulated under food, drugs, or agricultural products, and what vaccine component would be licensed: the antigen itself, genetically engineered fruit, or the transgenic seed.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: It goes on to say, although edible vaccines fall under genetically modified plants, it is hoped that these vaccines will avoid serious controversy because they are intended to save lives.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So even in this, what's supposed to be an unbiased scientific article, they are citing, they're in trying to instigate fear, right?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: You should not um you should not basically um hold this in controversy because if it if you do, then you are against saving lives.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty much what it's saying.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're slowing down our ability to save people's lives, all right.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'll give you some reasons why we should slow down and think of the unintended consequences.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: This comes from the um the second article.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: This one's actually published in molecular biology in 2020, so a newer article.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it says it's talking about edible vaccines and it's talking about important benchmarks to check the stability of these genetically modified plants as well as proper isolation of the plant.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is what it says, quote, from this article.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is a scientific article.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the trans gene causes allergies.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Plant-based or plant-made oral vaccines might induce allergic reactions during post-translational modifications.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And oral tolerance, when co-administered with oral adjuvants to mostly activate the mucosal immune system, may provoke hypersensitive responses to other proteins contained in the daily food.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Recurrent delivery of plant-made edible oral vaccines can boost regulatory T cell stimulated, contrary to vaccine antigens, and cause hypersensitivity reactions in cases of pollen allergy or food allergies.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, what they're saying here is that these plant-based vaccines may actually cause not only an allergy to what they're trying to deliver, but it could cause an allergy to that food itself.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if they stuck it in lettuce, it can cause the allergy to the lettuce.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Also, they mentioned the adjuvant here.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's an important part of a vaccine, even a traditional vaccine as well.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: They have to have an adjuvant in it.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is basically something that's um, and this is not my language.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is how they are defined.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And adjuvants are a toxin to the immune system.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: It has to get the immune system to um respond better to the antigen that they are delivering.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Usually that adjuvant is aluminum.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is where the heavy metal controversy comes in.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: The the most the widely used adjuvant is aluminum.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so you put aluminum there and it's going to be, you're you're consuming it, is what they're saying, um, in some of these, in some of these um concoctions.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that could actually um basically disrupt the lining of the gastrointestinal tract.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you may not only develop a immune response, a food sensory or allergy to the food that delivered the vaccine, it could be the other food that you ate with it, with that food.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you ate a salad, it could be the lettuce, it could be the carrots that's on the salad, you know, you get it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there is concern, and it is noted in this 2020 study.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Also, there's concern um about contamination.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a warning at the end of this study.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: It said um the safety and quality of the genetically modified plants will be a difficult task, even though manufacturing of genetically modified plants are regulated.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Cross-contamination between genetically modified plants and non-genetically modified plants may occur during pollination, and the genetically modified plants themselves do become aggressive, which means they could outcompete, right?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they're trying to imply here.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's that's already, I mean, that's already uh one of the big problems with genetically modified, you know, with with GMO uh GMO grains.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was the whole deal with you know, canola.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, remember when Monsanto took the Canadian uh uh Percy Schmeiser uh to court for contamination?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Percy Schmeiser never used it, but the pollen, the pollen drifted over.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so so how much of all this trans this trans material um, you know, uh uh wafts across the, you know, they when they first did GMO, they they they said, oh, pollen, pollen doesn't go more than just, you know, uh a few hundred feet.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then they found out that that maize in Mexico was getting pollinated uh from you know pollen clouds coming from, I think the the Middle East or something coming all the way across the Pacific Ocean to you know to Mexico and tainting uh and contaminating their crops.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: So uh listen, you know, nature has a a tremendous capacity for um you know for for pollinating and for you know for for making sure that uh there is there is diversity and there is longevity and there is uh you know perseverance.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and and so uh this idea that you can just you know uh turn nature into a test tube uh and you can control and put boundaries around uh these things.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Once you release them out, uh it you know, um I mean look at look at COVID in the Wuhan lab.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I thought they could isolate that, and and here we are, uh not to spread another conspiracy theory.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, so you know, um uh the the the hubris the hubris off all this just uh strikes me as unbelievable.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're saying Cena that that fear that that fear drives things.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh uh a um whatever uh fan fantasy promise also drives things.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and so you know when you look back and you think of the the fantasy promises.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Remember when the the human genome project was done, and I mean it was gonna cure everything.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: We were gonna live to 500 years old.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was gonna who was supposed to live 500 years, but uh, you know, it was gonna cure everything, and then the whole thing just collapsed when lo and behold, they found A instead of 100 pairs, it was only 20,000, and they found epigenetics.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they found that there was all sorts of hanky panky going on up and down the DNA strand.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but but but we but but but we knew, you know, we were told uh that it was gonna be this much.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: So man, um uh let's let's come to this with a little more um um respect.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let's come with a little more respect and awe instead of just um and humility.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and humility, absolutely, absolutely.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're we're uh we're about out of time here.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any one last parting uh thought you want to leave on as we close down this three-part series on on the mRNA uh gene manipulation?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I do.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And this because this falls into the category of let's use smart innovation and think about the unintended consequences.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they proposed using greenhouses to grow these edible vaccines in um to combat the problem of the cross-contamination between the pollen.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: But check this out the 2020 article also states this warning.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the DNA or the antigen may release into the water sources by the contact of insects or birds with the plants, which causes the contamination of water bodies.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: The pharmaceutical could accidentally enter into the human food chain and also affect the wildlife population.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Then it says the 2014 article says this, you know, they're trying to increase the amount of antigen in each plant, like that UC Riverside article said, because they want like one plant to be able to inoculate you, right?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, how are you actually going to measure this, quantify this, and give the right dosage?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is what it says.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Attempts at boosting the amount of antigens often lead to stunted growth of plants and reduced tuber fruit formation, as too much mRNA from the transgene causes gene silencing in plant genomes.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not conspiracy theorists.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is published in the scientific literature.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're not anti-science or anti-how can I be anti-science?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a scientist, right?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not anti-progress.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they themselves, these scientists themselves conducting this research, are putting the warnings for us there in black and white.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, meanwhile, we've got like the FDA fast tracking like that COVID plant-based vaccine.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think this is an issue that we really need to decide what we want.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: What do we want our food supply to consist of, right?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: For me, this is an adulteration of the food supply.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to eat vaccines in my plants.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to manipulate plants to grow vaccines for us, right?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's like playing God with you're replacing God, right?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're taking his gifts that he's given us and you're trying to change them.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's clearly hurting the plant, as I just read to you.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a difficult one because if they start doing this on a mass scale, then it is the problem of the cross-contamination, right?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, if it gets into the air and the pollen gets in the air.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I almost feel like as I'm now um we're crafting our plan for building our homestead, as you know.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm like, well, maybe I need to, you know, at least build in a high tunnel, right?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: At least grow my crops in a high tunnel or something.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they're they're a little more protected, right?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: In case they they don't stop doing these this technology.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, for sure, for me, the solution is grow as much as I can myself, right?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Save the seeds, right?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do the heirloom plants and save my own seeds, um, have a seed vault so I can protect the integrity of these those plants, right?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so grow as much as I can, um, forage as much as I can on my own land, buy from local farmers who I know and I trust their process, um, and try to get out of the grocery stores because they're not labeled, right?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, as far as I'm able to tell, there's no requirement to label them.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully one of those bills we mentioned will go through and it will help on a national level.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: It it will pick up on a national level, but even then I don't know that I would buy the food because there's always loopholes.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, well, well, clearly, clearly, uh, we are as as a what as a culture, um we're we're we're overrunning our headlights.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're you know, we're we're we're more intrepid than um than we're more intrepid than intimidated.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and uh you and I, Cena, I think we we understand it it's good to come to life a little bit intimidated because it it is there is mystery and there is uh stuff way beyond our comprehension to approach a cow, a little bit intimidated.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's uh unbelievably uh um you know uh uh beyond my my comprehension.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so um so uh you know, we we hope that this uh this three-part series digging into this has been helpful for everybody.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's been little pot spots of it, they're a little bit tedious, maybe, but uh, but we need that to you know to be able to formulate our own decisions and the whole idea is uh to um is to realize that ultimate health ultimate health is not about uh manipulating it's about massaging what is fearfully and wonderfully made.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: And with that thought we'll sign off for today and look forward to seeing you next week.