Latest / The Action Catalyst / The Answer Is In {THE AND}, with Topaz Adizes (Communication, Relationships, Leadership, Management)

Transcript

The Answer Is In {THE AND}, with Topaz Adizes (Communication, Relationships, Leadership, Management) · The Action Catalyst

0:00
Stephanie Maas: Okay, just so, you know, I am so hyped to talk
0:03
to you.
0:04
Topaz Adizes: Definitely, let's do it, how you doing?
0:06
Stephanie Maas: Oh, awesome. How are you?
0:09
Topaz Adizes: Good, very happy to be here.
0:19
Stephanie Maas: Yeah, we're happy to have you. I'm super
0:52
excited.
0:53
Topaz Adizes: Where are you at? Are you in? Where are you at?
0:55
What is that behind you?
0:56
Stephanie Maas: Nashville, Tennessee.
0:58
Topaz Adizes: I left my heart in Nashville. My high school
1:00
girlfriend played soccer at Vanderbilt. Summer love
1:03
freshman year, went there. Broke my heart.
1:05
Stephanie Maas: We're sorry.
1:07
Topaz Adizes: That's my that's my memory of Vander... of
1:09
Nashville, Tennessee, which I hear is an amazing city.
1:12
Stephanie Maas: Come back, bring your family. It's an incredible
1:15
town.
1:16
Topaz Adizes: Super cool.
1:17
Stephanie Maas: Okay, so I have so many questions. I have a
1:20
pretty decent human curiosity slash fascination with
1:25
psychology of humans, and one of my favorite ways to engage is
1:31
just asking questions. I'm just curious. That's going to be my
1:34
thing, my epitaph, I'm just curious. And your background
1:39
this phrase illuminating humanity. Where does that come
1:44
from? For you?
1:45
Topaz Adizes: Yeah, good question. Um, what is humanity?
1:48
I ask that a lot, and I also ask if, if it's humanity I love, or
1:52
is it humans I love? Frankly, I'm not sure. I like humans, but
1:55
I love humanity. But what is humanity? I think humanity is
1:58
not something that's in us. I think it's what's between us,
2:00
it's that incredible conversation you have with a
2:03
stranger in the taxi that we used to have before we had
2:05
phones, or in the elevator on the plane flight, where you just
2:08
share about life, and you find this resonant connection with
2:11
someone or your shared reflection, even though you have
2:13
two disparate souls that will never meet again, and you have
2:16
that moment of like, ah, or you have a big fight with your best
2:20
friend or your partner or your sibling, and you go through it,
2:22
and then afterwards, you can look at each other in the eye,
2:24
and you just feel a sense of connection, of understanding,
2:27
right? Or you're on that sports team where you or a work team
2:30
where you have a common goal, and you work through the long
2:33
hours a night, or challenges and and you accomplish that goal.
2:38
You successfully do it together, and you look each other, you
2:41
have a high five, or you have that shared goal, and there's a
2:44
sense of like coherence with each other. For a moment, you
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don't feel lonely. You've shared something, you've accomplished
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something, you've gone through a test, you come out together and
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you feel connected with someone that, to me, is humanity. So the
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question is, how do you cultivate it? And that's what
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I've been exploring for the last 11 years, and you're asking,
3:02
Where does it come from? Well, it comes from a deep wound.
3:04
Look, my kid, my parents got divorced when I was four, and I
3:07
was the oldest sibling. I have a siblings 15 months younger. And
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you know, when you're four years old, you look up these parents
3:12
that you have, and they're not parents. They're gods. I mean,
3:15
when you're that young, your parents are incredible beings,
3:18
right? When the gods are going at war, you start going, what's
3:22
this about my parents? Great parents have great relationships
3:26
with them. Now. Them, getting divorced was a great thing for
3:29
them. And frankly, as painful as it was for me, it was good for
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me too. Why? Because it created a hunger for connection and
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intimacy. And so first, it started as a wound that turned
3:40
into a hunger that became a gift. You know, I went into
3:44
filmmaking as a young person, you know, my 20s and 30s, and I
3:47
found that the camera was a great bridge. It was a door
3:50
opener. It was entering in people's world, and I could
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record them, I could talk to them, I could ask questions. And
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so I've used that gift of filmmaking to create this
3:57
project called the and, and I think it's a wonderful archive
4:00
of human relationships, but that ultimately comes from a deep
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wound as a child of witnessing divorce and seeing a lack of
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connection.
4:07
Stephanie Maas: So then, do you remember the first time you had
4:12
a consciousness, an awareness of, hey, this is real human
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connection?
4:17
Topaz Adizes: My first kiss, my first kiss, which was late in
4:21
life. I was 17. It was end of my junior year of high school, and
4:24
I remember intentionally. I know this is probably not what
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anybody's expecting to hear on this podcast, but you asked the
4:30
question, and I remember, as a young person, I said, I don't
4:32
want to, I know I'm a very passionate person, and if I
4:36
start engaging like physically with someone kissing, I'm going
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to be very emotionally passionate, and I'm going to
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want to go far, so I need to wait until I'm mature enough to
4:45
do that. I don't want to do that when I'm 13 or 14. So I anyways,
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end of junior year, and I remember looking the eyes of
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this, you know, young woman who's in my class, who are both
4:55
juniors, and I just remember my heart exploding, looking into
4:59
her eyes. I saw the. Whole universe in her eyes, and I felt
5:02
the whole universe in my heart. And that's the moment when I
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felt like connection. That's what I've been yearning for and
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looking for, and that was, I guess, the first time I really
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felt that.
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Stephanie Maas: So the physical connection was the kiss.
5:13
Topaz Adizes: It's not the kiss, it's looking in the other person
5:15
in the eye and having this strong emotion for them. It
5:18
wasn't, you know, just the act of the kiss, the kiss was
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followed that but it was looking into some other person's Deep
5:25
Black Onyx of the eye. You know, we often forget that if you look
5:28
at any animal and any human, regardless of what it is and
5:32
what color eye it is, at the center, it's always the same
5:34
color. It's a Black Onyx. And isn't that interesting? I mean,
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I don't care if it's a snake, a shark or a human. The center is
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a Black Onyx, and we look in the depth of a Black Onyx of another
5:46
human being. There's a journey there to be had.
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Stephanie Maas: So then we fast forward, and you go, Okay, I
5:52
want to spend a lot of my time in craft, seeking that, sharing
5:57
it with others.
5:59
Topaz Adizes: Well, you know, it's funny, when you and I look
6:01
back, I can find this undercurrents of what shaped me,
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what did life sculpt into me? What experience does it give me
6:08
such that I was in a position to receive this beautiful format
6:11
that then we're applying and sharing with the world? On the
6:14
top line, it's, you know, I was a filmmaker. I had films that
6:17
went to Sundance, and then I had a film at Cannes, and things
6:20
were not taking off. You know, I had films set up, and it was it.
6:22
But just I was my friends were doing really well. And even
6:25
though I had done really successfully, you know, two at
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Sundance and one at Canada, which is the biggest film
6:30
festival in the world, it wasn't picking up. And by accident, I
6:33
put the film on Vimeo without a password, and it got picked up
6:38
as short of the week. And in one week, I had 400 500,000 views in
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one week, and that was a big Hey, wait a second, what game Am
6:47
I playing? What game Am I playing? And I just want to
6:49
share with the audience, if you're going to take anything
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away from this conversation, it's that we need to focus on
6:54
the questions we ask ourselves and our team members, not on the
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answers. And so that question of, hey, what game Am I playing?
7:02
Because, until that point, I was playing the game of being a film
7:04
director, right? But then I just got half a million people,
7:08
400,000 people in one week to watch my film. Well, how much
7:12
time, money and energy would that take me to do that in this
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other route? What game Am I playing? Am I playing the game
7:17
of film director? You know, modern day, popular culture
7:20
meditations, what I saw cinema as, or I want to play that game
7:25
of injecting ideas into the mainstream, of offering new
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perspectives to the mainstream. And if that's the game I want to
7:31
play, don't play it in theaters. Play in the digital platforms,
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because it spreads us much faster. It was 2011 Well, if we
7:37
move the digital field, what, what's worthwhile talking about,
7:40
what's personal to me, and at that time, I was living in
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Brooklyn, New York, and I have a brother who's 16 years younger
7:45
than I, and we were both single, and I saw how we were both
7:49
dating completely differently because of our relationships to
7:53
technology. I remember one time I was writing a script, and I
7:56
was in Sun Valley, Idaho, and I would been dating a woman in New
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York and and I sent her a text saying, Hey, thank you love or
8:02
something. And she goes Topaz. When you write love in your text
8:06
message, do you mean that, like an English person just saying
8:09
love is some kind of passing vernacular, or do you really
8:12
mean love? I said, Oh, wait, wait, wait, I gotta call this
8:15
person. So I called her up and we have a 45 minute talk. And at
8:19
the end of the talk, she said, You know what? Thank you so much
8:21
for calling me. Because in all the past relationships I've been
8:25
having last few years, every time we talk about something
8:27
intimate, it's over text. And I really appreciate you calling
8:31
me. And I remember thinking that's not what shocked me. What
8:33
shocked me was that she was only five years younger than I and
8:36
yet the generational gap was, of course, I'm going to call you
8:39
when I have a conversation. And yet in the people she was dating
8:42
five years younger, it was actually more normal to text.
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And what I realized is, and that, along with my brother and
8:47
how he was dating differently than I was, was that, how is the
8:49
emotional experience of being human? How we relate to each
8:53
other? How do we articulate our emotions? How do we feel our
8:56
emotions changing in lieu of all this technology that's coming to
9:00
our lives? And that set me off on the journey of like, okay, I
9:03
want to explore that theme, because that's incredible. And
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I'm going to do on the digital platforms. I'm going to inject
9:08
ideas in the mainstream, inject questions in the mainstream via
9:11
digital platforms, because that's the quickest way, most
9:13
engaging way to do it. But the subject I want to explore is the
9:16
emotional experience of being human. How is that shifting in
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the landscape of all this technology that's coming up, and
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thus launched the skin deep, which is an experience design
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studio. And then under that, we have a bunch of different
9:28
experiences and products, of which the and is the most
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famous, we have questions and card games and videos, and
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that's that's where we're at today.
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Stephanie Maas: So one of the things we hear a lot about is,
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because of the age of technology that we're in, we're more
9:42
connected than we've ever been, and yet we're less connected
9:47
than we've ever been. So I can see two schools of thought on
9:52
this book, 12 questions for love, a guide to intimate
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conversations and deeper relationships. I can see some
9:58
folks going, Oh, my God, I don't need to be. Told I'm a terrible
10:00
partner and I'm terrible at all these things. No, thank you. And
10:04
then, of course, I see a natural audience. They go, Oh my gosh.
10:06
I've been seeking these things show me and tell me how to do
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this. For the naysayers, why is this worth their time?
10:13
Topaz Adizes: Totally. Great question. Who do you know has
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sat through and watched over 1200 pairs of people in
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intimate, real, courageous conversations? Maybe a
10:24
therapist. But then who's asking the questions when you go to
10:26
couples therapy, therapist is who are the couples looking at
10:29
when they're talking about the answers? They're looking at the
10:31
therapist. They're not looking at each other. What we've done
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and what my team and I have had the privilege and honor is for
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the last 11 years in 10 countries, over 1200 pairs to
10:41
bring them into a room. And I'm not just talking about talking
10:42
about partners who are married or dating. I'm talking about
10:45
grandparents with their children, best friends, siblings
10:48
bring them. They sit down and for an hour and an hour and 20
10:51
minutes, they're facing each other, and the space is theirs.
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We've laid down questions for them to ask each other, and they
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go off and literally, we're just sitting there watching them.
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I've been doing that for the last 11 years. That data set is
11:03
gigantic, so that, to me, has been a privilege, because I've
11:07
been able to witness, how do you create the space to have these
11:11
cathartic conversations? And that's something that we don't
11:13
get taught. We taught that by modeling our family or maybe our
11:18
friends group. And in the case of work, the companies you work
11:20
at, you model it, but you're not necessarily taught it, because
11:24
no one's tested it out over time so many times. And so that's
11:27
what's worthwhile in the book, is that look, here are 12
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questions to have a cathartic conversation. But what's most
11:33
important is teaching you how is you need to create the space,
11:36
and two, how to construct great questions. These are tools that
11:40
you can bring into your toolkit, that you can apply to your
11:43
relationship with your friends, family and co workers, anyone in
11:46
your life.
11:47
Stephanie Maas: So what I'm hearing you say, because I want
11:49
to be really intentional about this message getting out. This
11:52
isn't about, hey, how to be a better boyfriend or be a better
11:55
husband or spouse or whatever. This is about how to connect at
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what I call a real level with another human, in a way that, if
12:04
I'm hearing you right, both parties walk away saying that
12:08
was a good use of my time, and with the hope of a deeper, more
12:12
meaningful connection to another human.
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Topaz Adizes: 100%. Absolutely, part of creating this space is
12:19
that you need to come at it without An agenda. And what I
12:22
mean by agenda is not bullet points. What we're talking
12:23
about, I'm talking about agenda of where we're going to end up.
12:25
You have to come with an intention. But the point is, the
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bottom line is, how do we create the space with well constructed
12:31
questions? What's the result? Is, I want to have a
12:33
conversation. We don't have a conversation where we're
12:35
exploring our relationship. Here's the formula. Esther
12:38
Perel, you know, the famous, uh, author and therapist in that
12:41
field, she says, look, the quality of your life is
12:44
commensurate to the quality of your relationships. All right,
12:47
if I buy that great well, then how do I have quality
12:49
relationships? One way to do it is have quality conversations.
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We're blessed with the ability to communicate our ideas and
12:56
stories. What makes us so successful as humans. We can
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communicate ideas and emotions, stories and beliefs and have
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conversations, right? Okay, how do we have good conversations?
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That's where I come in. So if you create the space and you ask
13:08
well constructed questions, you can have incredible
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conversations. Guess what? If you have incredible
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conversations, you have incredible relationships. If you
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have incredible relationships, you'd have incredible life. Why?
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Cuz your relationships reflect your experience of what it means
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to be human and to be alive. That's the formula.
13:23
Stephanie Maas: Okay, even at the end of the day, if you
13:25
ultimately don't share someone's opinion, you disagree with them,
13:29
you part ways and decide, hey, I don't want to be in a
13:31
relationship, whether it's work or whatever the case may be, I
13:34
think so much is doing it in a healthy way that even if
13:38
something ends both people go, Hey, that was still worth my
13:41
time. That was still meaningful like so with that, talk to me
13:45
about what are the things people do wrong when they are
13:48
attempting to create space? And what are some things to keep in
13:52
mind?
13:53
Topaz Adizes: What things to keep in mind and what people do
13:54
wrong. You don't sleep in the kitchen and you don't cook in
13:59
the bedroom. You do certain things in certain spaces. So are
14:02
we articulating the rooms we're in, in the house of our
14:05
relationship, talking about work, right? What kind of
14:07
meeting are we having right now? Do we tell the people to do
14:10
that? Do we tell people what kind of meeting we're having?
14:13
We're doing a brain story meeting team. The reason you
14:16
tell them about the space you're in is that you're articulating
14:20
what is permissible, what's acceptable, what is what we were
14:23
suggesting. This is the behavior that we want. Ah, this is the
14:25
game we're playing in the kitchen. You know, you're
14:27
cooking, you're not going to sleep in the kitchen. And in the
14:29
bedroom, you're sleeping. You're not cooking in there. So the
14:31
expectations or permissions are clear in our relationships. Are
14:35
we doing the same? So the work world is like, Okay, if we call
14:38
a meeting, what kind of meeting is this? What's the phase we're
14:41
in now? Are we brainstorming? Because how many times are you
14:44
in a brainstorming meeting where everyone's brainstorming at the
14:46
end, there's no decisions made? People are upset. Wait, hold on,
14:49
this was a brainstorming meeting, so don't expect us to
14:51
end up with a decision or vice versa. It is a decision making
14:55
meeting. You're not interested in new ideas. We need to decide
14:57
who's doing what by when and how. Now people are like, wait.
15:00
They're never asking for ideas, and I know we got to be clear
15:03
about what kind of meeting this is, and that's part of the
15:05
space, so that's one thing too. Let's not confuse comfort and
15:10
safety, or let's not confuse discomfort with being unsafe.
15:15
Let's not confound them. Safety is imperative, but discomfort is
15:19
great. If I wanted to go bungee jumping, in theory, I should be
15:23
safe, because these guys have done it all the time. The rope
15:25
is tested. You know, I'm like, the 5000 person doing this, and
15:29
okay, so in theory, I'm safe because they've checked
15:31
everything. They know the bunch is good. But am I uncomfortable?
15:35
Absolutely I'm uncomfortable. But that doesn't mean I'm not
15:37
safe. Now, in your conversations at work or with relationships.
15:41
Are you safe? How do we create that safety? Well, part of it is
15:45
articulating, hey, what's the room we're in? What are the
15:47
rules? What are the boundaries here, what is expected? And then
15:51
to say, okay, in that space now we can ask these construct, well
15:54
constructed questions that put us in discomfort. And we can
15:57
actually be uncomfortable because we know we're safe, but
16:00
just because you're uncomfortable does not meet
16:02
You're not safe. And vice versa, just because you're still
16:05
comfortable does not actually mean you're safe. So making that
16:08
distinction is good, and not shying away from discomfort and
16:11
actually leaning into it, but making sure that the space is
16:13
created, that you feel safe and then you can ask questions in a
16:16
way that reinforce that safety or not, there's a lot of power
16:20
in the questions. And we're always so focused on the
16:22
answers, and we don't realize how, by shaping the question,
16:26
you are shaping the answer. This is huge. So let me just give a
16:29
very simple example. It's 738 o'clock, and you go to your kids
16:33
and you say, Hey, do you want to go to sleep? What do you think
16:36
the answer is? We all know it's no. You ask the question, do you
16:41
want to go to sleep? It's like, yes or no. I mean, okay, but if
16:44
you go and say, Hey kids, you want to sleep on the couch or in
16:46
the bed, you've already saved the answer. The answer is, bed
16:50
or the couch, the question has shaped the answer the options.
16:53
Oftentimes we're so good at finding answers, but oftentimes
16:56
we find the right answers to the wrong questions. Put more
16:59
emphasis on the questions. Why did this campaign fail? Why did
17:02
this candidate not work out? What about saying? Let me change
17:05
that question. What can we learn from this campaign that we could
17:09
take to the next what was the failure of this candidate that
17:12
started the company and didn't work out? What could we do to
17:15
improve to ensure that the next one doesn't have the same
17:18
failure? So you're asking questions that are giving you
17:20
answers that are constructive, that you can actually have
17:22
agency from, versus saying, why did this campaign not work? Oh,
17:26
here's 1000 reasons. Why not shift the question such that the
17:29
answers you get are going to be constructive to your life, to
17:32
your business? Let's just take a very simple question, because
17:35
power dynamics are really important in the workplace, and
17:37
you're trying to create a safe space where you can share your
17:41
opinion, but you also don't want to get fired or pissed off the
17:44
boss or the politics of the culture. So you're in a meeting.
17:47
It's a group of you, and whoever's running the meeting
17:50
with the parades, let's say they are, the executive who's running
17:53
the meeting has responsibility for some decisions, or the unit
17:55
leading the team, and they ask a question. First of all, the fact
17:58
that they're asking a question is already a power play, because
18:01
they get to ask the question, and everyone the team is going
18:03
wait, why are they asking that question? But here comes that
18:05
question. You're in the meeting, and the boss goes, Stephanie,
18:08
why did our marketing campaign fail? Why did the product fail,
18:13
or whatever? Why did the product succeed? That question shapes
18:16
that your answer is going to give an objective truth about
18:19
reality. It failed because this and this, and this, this, now
18:21
everyone else in the room is going, that's not why it failed.
18:24
No, wait, that doesn't wait, found and now we have some type
18:26
of conflict, because the question has actually invited
18:29
you to give an objective truth which everyone else has
18:32
different opinions about. If you just add the words, why do you
18:35
think, or why do you feel? You see how that preamps any kind of
18:40
conflict going forward, because this is your subjective opinion.
18:43
I can't disagree with your subjective opinion. And by
18:45
asking that in the especially in the power dynamic space, it's
18:49
like inviting you in to give your opinion. And this is
18:52
inviting you step in in this way that's safe, because we can't
18:55
really argue with your subjective experience. So you
18:58
can say, from my point of view.dot.if, the boss says, Why
19:01
did the product fail, your response can start just say,
19:05
from my point of view, but a better question as a leader is
19:07
to say, Why do you think, why do you feel that's her experience?
19:10
That's her POV. Thank you for your POV. What's your POV?
19:13
Jimmy, and from that, we're inviting different POVs to
19:16
illuminate all the opportunities for challenge. And then we could
19:19
discuss, from that, what do we think is objectively true or
19:21
not, but just by adding Why do you think? Why do you feel, is
19:25
already shaping an answer that's less confrontational, less
19:28
conflict, and there's a lot of little semantic tools we can use
19:31
in constructing questions to invite sharing while still
19:34
keeping it safe, albeit uncomfortable.
19:36
Stephanie Maas: These are things that are not often talked about
19:39
on leadership as it should be. I do think leadership is a
19:43
privilege, and a lot of what we've talked about through this
19:46
podcast is stepping into leadership is not what it was
19:50
back, probably when our parents were in business, it was
19:52
management. We're not doing that anymore.
19:54
Topaz Adizes: Which I think is really important for a leader.
19:56
When you talk about leader, I love the fact you said it's a
19:57
privilege. I think these days, I think if you. See leadership as
20:00
a privilege and a responsibility. I think that's a
20:03
wonderful way to see that, because you you do have the
20:06
power dynamics. So how are you utilizing that to make a more
20:08
coherent team? Why? So that we could be more successful
20:11
together? Why? So that we can earn the financial income and
20:14
resources by providing value to our clients, or whoever it is,
20:18
to our market, such that we could support our the passions
20:21
of ourselves and the well being of our family and the loved ones
20:23
and our community. You know you could cut off a friend if you
20:25
disagree, you could do that. Family members much more
20:28
difficult. But co workers. Only way to cut someone off is one of
20:32
you has to get fired. One of you has to quit. And so sometimes
20:35
you really have to face conflict with the people you work with,
20:38
because otherwise your livelihood is at stake. So the
20:40
stakes of being able to work coherently together are even
20:43
more important. And so the leadership, you say, privilege,
20:45
I think that's a great way, and part of that is how to create
20:48
the space and acknowledge the power dynamic in the room. We
20:51
often don't do it, but by doing it, it's actually calling the
20:54
elephant in the room, by articulating your intention, not
20:57
your agenda. And the intention could be what I mean by that is
21:00
not the bullet points. Agenda. I'm talking about agenda is
21:03
where we end up. Oftentimes, you go to your team and you're like,
21:05
you've already made a decision. You just want to convince
21:08
everyone on your point of view, and everyone knows it, and
21:11
there's a power dynamic. So they don't really want to push back.
21:14
So they're just, we're just playing politics here. But
21:16
instead, as a leader, if you really want to get their
21:18
feedback, because they can see things that you can't. Maybe
21:21
they could see the potential weaknesses or the benefits that
21:23
you don't, or they can reinforce how good the idea is or not. How
21:27
do you invite that is by stating your intention, which is like,
21:30
hey, my intention in the meeting is like, I have an idea. Yes, I
21:33
do. And yeah, I'd like to get there, but I know that I might
21:37
be wrong, and I want to have a meeting now to explore it. So
21:40
you're not saying I want to get here, and you, I have to
21:42
convince you. You're saying that's my intention, is to get
21:45
there. But I know I'm right. So my actual intention is to
21:48
explore that possible answer and see if there's a better one. You
21:51
see how that's much more inviting, because often we don't
21:53
do that. We say the agenda is we're going to talk about this,
21:55
this, this, this, and get to here. And in the back of your
21:57
mind what I really mean, the intentions, we know where we're
21:59
ending up, and the whole team knows that's where you're ending
22:01
up, and maybe they don't want to end want to end up there, but
22:03
they're not really going to push back. But if you suggest an
22:05
intention and get the space open, then you can get more from
22:10
your team, get more opinions, and then ultimately, you'll make
22:12
the decision if you're the leader, right, but you'll do
22:15
with much clearer viewpoint of where everyone's at. With more
22:18
information.
22:19
Stephanie Maas: Let me segueway and draw into your experience
22:22
over the last 11 years. So I would imagine there are some
22:25
folks that sat down and just couldn't wait to engage, and
22:27
they were just game players from the get go. Those are the easy
22:31
folks and fun folks to work with, because they're easy and
22:34
fun. What are just a couple of things? How do you get when
22:38
you're fighting that resistance? You know, as a leader, you're
22:41
doing, you're saying things, you're being thoughtful. But
22:44
human nature is there the skeptics. There are the negative
22:48
nancies. There are the uh huh. I know what they're doing here.
22:51
I'm not going to let them manipulate me, and I'm going to
22:53
stay shut down and guarded. Anything that you can shed some
22:57
light on those to get through to those folks.
23:01
Topaz Adizes: Okay, wow, this is a big one. So usually there's
23:03
one person who's amped, and usually one that's reticent. You
23:06
know one, usually it's one person who's dragged the other
23:09
person over. And then there's an interesting dynamic that happens
23:11
and shifts. If you want to have this conversation with someone
23:14
in your life, you have to offer it as a gift, as an offering,
23:17
not again. It's like you're not ending. You don't want to have
23:19
an agenda that they're going to open up and cry and tell you
23:21
they love you, but you have an intention of exploring it, and
23:24
you have to be open to seeing where it goes. If your partner
23:26
comes to you and asks you a complicated question, out of the
23:29
blue, you're not wondering about the answer. You're wondering,
23:31
Where is this coming from? And so you're you're not engaging
23:34
with the heart, if you will. You're engaging with your mind
23:36
to protect you, right? Because the mind is built to protect
23:39
you, while the heart's built to connect you. So how do you
23:41
connect to the heart? That's the question. So in the workplace,
23:44
it's a little more challenging, right? Because, yeah, we want
23:47
you to tell your opinions, but we're also protecting ourselves
23:50
because our livelihoods and the power dynamics, because the
23:52
leader, how do you create the space that invites conflict
23:56
discomfort so that you can harness that conflict to make
24:00
better decisions, find opportunities, but do it in a
24:02
way that's constructive. It's all about creating the space and
24:05
asking well constructed questions that reinforce that
24:07
space right of safety, albeit discomfort. So look, in a
24:12
relationship, you ask a question if your partner doesn't want to
24:14
answer it, they don't have to answer it, nor should they, but
24:17
you do have to ask every question you know, and you don't
24:19
have to answer it. Maybe don't answer now, that's totally fine.
24:21
You should, as a part, you should allow your partner to be
24:24
who they are if they don't want to answer it. Now, that's fine.
24:26
And if they don't emotionally articulate their emotions in the
24:29
same way, I call it emotion articulation, in the same way
24:32
that you do. You know you have to let go. You have to accept
24:34
them for who they are, where they're at in the workplace, you
24:37
bring an idea to the table. You do want people's input, right?
24:40
You want everyone to participate, so you get that
24:42
information in a time efficient manner, and you have to create a
24:45
space where you're inviting maybe the introverts out, or the
24:48
ones who you know need the memo before, so they can give time to
24:52
understanding, so understanding who's in the room and how maybe
24:56
some of them don't want to prep, because that's not their best
24:59
off the cuff. Yes, and other people, they need the memo
25:02
before to read, think about it over the weekend, and then when
25:04
they come in, they have thoughts. We process think
25:07
differently, which is an advantage, by the way, but it
25:11
makes differences, which makes leadership more difficult. How
25:15
do you create the space which are facilitating everyone to
25:17
perform the best way they can, and the coherence of the team to
25:20
do it in a way that's integrated so that we get we can find the
25:23
magic between us. You can find the magic in the spaces between
25:27
of the different points of view that we have. And so that has to
25:30
do, again, with the space and creating a vibe. We're like, you
25:35
don't have to perform a certain way, but I do want you to
25:38
perform in your best way. That's huge, right? It's not like we
25:42
don't want everyone being effusive and talking No, no, no,
25:45
but I want you to fully show up as you, and I want them to fully
25:48
show up as them, and we accept it, and we trust that we're all
25:53
going to the same spot, the same goal, and we respect that we all
25:56
have different points of views and ways of taking information
25:59
in and then sharing and articulating that information,
26:02
you create that kind of space, right? And those kind of and we
26:06
facilitate that with Will the constructions that reinforce
26:08
that and the behavior of how we listen to each other and
26:11
respond. But as a leader, you gotta know, how can I create the
26:14
space for each of my team members to really show up? I
26:18
mean, I think if anything I've said here is helpful for people.
26:21
I think the value offering is, yes, there's a book, and yes, we
26:24
have, like, 15 editions of card games that you could use with
26:27
relationship but the newest one is called team building, and we
26:30
have a team building deck that you can play with. We have that
26:33
and a co worker's deck. The co workers is really focused on the
26:36
organization and what you're doing together. Team Building is
26:39
for any team and how we operate together. They can find it on
26:42
our store, on Amazon.
26:44
Stephanie Maas: This has been huge. Thank you so much.
26:47
Topaz Adizes: Thank you. Thank you, Stephanie, my pleasure.