Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / NASCAR Reporter Deb Williams Discusses Her Hall of Fame Career | Lights Out With John Roberts

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NASCAR Reporter Deb Williams Discusses Her Hall of Fame Career | Lights Out With John Roberts · Kenny Wallace Media

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  is time to go lights out with Deb Williams And Deb we now we
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  used to just call you NASCAR writer.
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  Now we can call you Hall of Famer.
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  You know, Deb, we always try to go out and do the best job we
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  can. But when you get an award as
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  prestigious as the Squire Hall of Fame Award, which you just
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  recently given, it's got to give you some validation of your
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  career. Does it?
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  Does it give you a great feeling that that all those hours and
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  all those days, all that work is just is being recognized
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  properly? It does, but at the same time it
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  really doesn't feel real. It may become real to me once
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  they start asking for my items to go into the display case, but
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  you know, it's. I've been shocked and pleasantly
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  surprised at how many people have wished me well and
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  congratulatory. I mean, people that I haven't
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  heard from in a long time. So it it's like one person
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  looked at me and said you've dedicated your whole life to
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  this sport. And I never really had thought
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  of it that way until she she said that to me in the
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  Darlington Media Center. It was Lee Spencer who said that
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  to me. And I thought it back about the
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  sacrifices that I had made since I had decided at age 13 this is
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  what I wanted to do, and it is still unbelievable to me.
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  I think, you know, Deb, we're doing pretty well in terms of
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  the sport in general, in terms of diversity.
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  There's there now more women riders there now, more women
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  drivers that are up and coming. I think we made good strides in
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  that. But but when you first started,
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  I think Deb, you were a true trailblazer.
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  You are one of the first what? What was the reaction like when
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  you really went in? I mean nowadays people are going
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  in. Yeah, yeah, women sports writers
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  are going into a male dominated sport.
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  But when you started it really was a a male dominant sport.
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  What was the reaction you got from the people involved?
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  Well, I was fortunate at the time and that I worked for an
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  international wire service. I worked for United Press
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  International and, you know, then you had The Associated
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  Press and you had UPI and everybody wanted the coverage
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  from the two wire services because they had access to all
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  the newspapers, radio and TV stations all over the world.
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  And that helped me considerably was the fact that I was the UPI
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  person. But a lot of people didn't know
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  quite how to take me. And, you know, once they learned
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  that I was truly interested in the sport and the cars and the
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  workings of the the engines and everything, it made it a lot
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  nicer in the fact that Richard Petty would stop and talk to me
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  in the garage and help me get validation there.
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  And with the veteran sports writers like Gerald Martin at
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  the Raleigh paper, Tom Higgins at The Charlotte Observer, you
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  know, back then we didn't have, the only time we had formal
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  press conferences was when somebody was announcing a driver
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  change or a sponsor. And there were no lounges.
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  And the transporters, that's where they hauled the engines
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  and there were no motor coaches. Everybody stayed in the same
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  hotels and traveled on the same commercial flights.
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  And you got your stories by the building, the relationships, and
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  you sat on the back of the transporters and stood on tires
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  and sat on tires and all. And the fact that those veteran
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  sports writers, let me be with them when it was a group session
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  and like I said, Richard Petty would talk to me.
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  And then when Linda Petty was president of the Winston Cup
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  Racing Wives Auxiliary. And they used to always have an
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  annual fashion show at Burdines during speed weeks at Daytona at
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  the Volusia Mall. And I had gone over there to
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  interview Dick Brooks's wife, Stephanie, at the time for a
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  story. And you know, the fact that
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  Linda Petty said, oh, I've known Debbie since she was just this
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  high, that helped say, oh, well, if Linda Petty says she's OK,
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  she's OK. So all of that combined helped.
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  But you know, some of the horror stories that I heard from other
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  women who were married to to crew chiefs or married to
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  drivers and all, and how they tried to keep Stevie Waltrip out
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  of the pits when Daryl wanted her to keep the the fuel charts.
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  They made her buy a crewman license.
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  They thought that if they did that, they wouldn't like the
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  fact that it was taken away from a crew person.
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  Then it was taking them down one, but it didn't work.
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  So, but you know, the fact that I was with an international wire
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  service helped me tremendously. Deb, other than the King, who
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  else were the guys? Who were the main stars of the
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  sport when you started out? Who were the first guys you
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  talked to? Kel Yarborough, Bobby Allison,
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  It, it was really hard for me because these were the drivers
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  that I had grown up watching and admiring as a fan.
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  And now I was having to go in and question them as drivers and
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  me as a journalist. And, and it was difficult at
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  first, but David Pearson was winding down his career at the
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  time and Darryl Waltrip was on the upswing.
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  There was Neil Bonnet, Ricky Rudd was just getting started,
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  so it was Rusty Wallace and Dale Earnhardt and we were all about
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  the same age of as far as Ricky and Rusty and Dale and all.
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  But yeah, it was Bobby Allison and Kale Yarborough, David
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  Pearson, Richard Petty during the when I first started
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  covering for UPI in 1979. So when I look back at when I
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  got my start Deb, there were a couple drivers in particular
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  that that really were extra friendly.
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  I didn't know everything I wanted to know about the sport
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  and I probably asked a lot of questions, but there were guys
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  that were out there that meant a lot to me.
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  Jeff Gordon was one of them. Greg Biffle was one as well that
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  that really, I thought took a little bit extra interest in the
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  90s of, of helping me out. What were their drivers or
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  owners in particular that you feel like you can go back to and
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  and and and credit them with your development into what you
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  were able to become? Well, one was Robert Yates.
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  And the thing about Robert Yates, once a lot of these
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  people found out that my dad was a machinist and that I was
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  interested in the mechanical end of the cars, then I they would
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  take a lot of time with me. And Robert Yates would always
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  explain the new heads that were coming out from Ford and the new
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  engines and all. You know, Johnny Hayes was great
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  to work with, with the Skull Bandit teams.
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  Humpy Wheeler was a fantastic mentor.
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  He was always there and there were people, not necessarily
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  drivers and team owners, but people who got it and coached me
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  at Jim Hunter, at NASCAR, Bob Latford, who just designed the
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  point system that we used up until 2004, Gene Granger, who
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  put together all the statistics for the RJ Reynolds Tobacco
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  record books. And you know, it was the little
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  things like Bob Latford, the first time I went to cover Speed
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  Weeks. And Bob said, well, you know,
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  everybody knows you're with UPI here in the Carolinas, but when
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  you go to Daytona, you need to make you a name tag that says
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  Deb Williams, United Press International or UPI so that if
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  somebody's looking for the wire service person, they know who it
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  is and where to find you. So Deb, what have you seen in
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  terms of places you have worked for?
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  I think just just the other day to hear what major newspapers
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  have have gone away from a printed edition there.
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  There were such great magazines that were out there and wire
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  services and and Motorsports Information Services that were
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  out there. Which ones that you worked for
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  have gone away since It actually pretty recently.
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  I think we've lost some entities that have been around
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  Motorsports forever. Yes, that's true.
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  Actually, UPI went from being a wire service to it's an Internet
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  now. You can go on and read UPI
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  articles on this UPI website. But NASCAR, I think a lot of
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  people probably know it is NASCAR scene.
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  It started out as Grand National scene and then became Winston
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  Cup scene and then was NASCAR Winston Cup scene the 10 years
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  that I was editor of it. But I was there 18 years and the
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  editor for the last 10 years that I was there.
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  And it shut down seven years after I left.
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  And then Illustrated, which was a sister publication and it was
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  a magazine. It shut down, not really sure
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  when it shut down, quite honestly, but it was several
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  years after scene shut down. And you know, it's really sad.
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  I know a lot of people talk about the harshness of the
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  social media and the terrible stuff that's read on Twitter a
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  lot of times or X, whichever way you want to identify.
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  And that's actually what we saw in letters to the editor when
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  they came in. The the difference is now that
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  you don't have anyone who's been trained and libel and slander
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  long had communications law that's able to filter out the
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  derogatory and filthy comments that people make.
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  And I think that's a shame that we are losing the, the print
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  media the way we are, unfortunately.
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  I mean, I was told in journalism school that within 30 years we
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  would have something called the Internet and that's the way
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  people would get their information then.
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  So I don't understand why the media outlets were not prepared
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  for it because they knew it was coming.
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  I don't know if they didn't think it people would gravitate
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  to it or what, but there was no excuse for them to be caught as
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  off guard as they were. Yeah.
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  And also, Deb, I think one of the things that has changed, I
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  think when you and me were both early, early on in our careers
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  there, there was something called accountability and there
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  was something called, you know, you, you had to have a source of
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  what you were saying and you had to be able to back it up or
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  you're going to get drummed out of the sport.
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  But it's now it just seems like with all these outlets that
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  we've lost a little bit of that accountability that, that you're
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  really able nowadays. I mean, some of the stuff you
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  read on Facebook and and Axe or Twitter, it's like, you know,
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  the story's false because we're in the garage area.
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  You know, that's not right, but yet people are still putting it
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  out and getting away with it. I I don't know what your take is
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  on that, but I think it's that lack of accountability that has
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  changed sports journalism and really journalism journalism as
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  a whole in a big way. Well, that's true.
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  And unfortunately what a lot of people are interested in is, is
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  not the truth or being accountable, as you said, but
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  rather click bait so they can get the clicks.
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  And I know that I've even heard some of the stories have been AI
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  generated. So, you know, it's more like,
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  let's just see how sensational we can be and what we can come
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  up with. And unfortunately a lot of
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  people think, OK, I can create a website and that makes me a
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  journalist and or I can create a YouTube and that makes me a
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  journalist. And they've never had any
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  training in the profession, and they've never had a course in
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  communications law. And that accountability that
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  you're talking about now, they don't know the difference
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  between a column, a new story and a feature.
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  I mean, I can remember having editors of, in fact, the first
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  managing editor I had, you know, he was emphatic about you are
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  not the story your job. There's a story and everybody
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  out there, and your job is to find it.
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  Yep, absolutely. And boy, weren't there stories
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  along the way. I think I, I spent a lot of time
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  Deb in, you know, in the stick and ball sports.
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  And the one thing that I thought was So what was refreshing doing
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  NASCAR full time was the the fact that these guys, they they
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  didn't really have anything guaranteed.
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  You go to NFLNBA, these guys have guaranteed contracts so
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  they don't have to talk to the media, They don't have to market
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  themselves. A a driver, I think has to
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  market him or herself in a certain way and to to therefore
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  be a brand ambassador. I think that's one of the things
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  over the years that has helped us so much in, in terms of
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  bringing out those stories you talk about of getting them
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  because the drivers wanted to be an open book and the owners
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  wanted to be an open book. And that was one of the really
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  great things about covering NASCAR.
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  I agree with you 100%. And that's the reason I enjoy
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  covering the NHRA too, is because the competitors at the
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  NHRA are really open to the median of the way the NASCAR
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  competitors were in the 1980s. And you know, they don't have so
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  many demands on them and this and that all week long.
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  And but it's interesting you bring that up because one time I
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  was working with a an advancement teaching, the state
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  of North Carolina had a program for teachers where they could
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  come in and learn the different careers that were available in
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  racing. And one of the teachers asked me
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  why it seemed like the drivers didn't mismanage their money as
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  much as some of the athletes in stick and ball sports.
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  And I said, well, it's because they've had to work so hard for
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  so long and do so much with so little of a lot of times they
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  just don't go out and splurge with it.
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  They know how to manage their money better.
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  So yeah, it's, you know, entirely different because I
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  don't think a lot of people know or either lose sight of the fact
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  that drivers are independent contractors and they have a
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  contract with the team owner, they have a personal services
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  contract with the sponsor and or with the manufacturer.
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  And you know, it's, it's not where they're in there and
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  guaranteed by league. I know I remember when Kyle
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  Petty was driving, he had a insurance contract with Lloyd's
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  of London. Because.
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  And I've had wives that told me back before corporate America
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  came in where a driver had a guaranteed salary for a year, it
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  was difficult for them to get a mortgage loan because the banks
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  didn't want to give to it because they didn't have a
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  guaranteed salary. It was, you know, 40% of their
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  winnings. Well, how much were you going to
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  win? Were you going to get hurt?
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  What was going to happen? And so it was a difficult time
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  for them. Deb, you've been up front, you
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  had a front row seat to some of the huge changes of this sport
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  not too long ago. We went from cigarettes to cell
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  phones and you went from this Southeastern sport with the with
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  the rough and tumble, gritty guy behind the wheel.
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  And now you're you're seeing a little bit more corporate money.
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  Well, of course you're seeing corporate money as the the sport
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  becomes more expensive. Some of those changes let let
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  let's start out with just, you know, when the major TV contract
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  happened back in O1, what was that the change like from your
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  perspective? What was that bringing the sport
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  to the forefront? Was that more of a good change?
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  Was there more negativity about it than than it was?
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  How was the? How were these changes that you
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  saw? Well, you know, I can remember
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  the first thing that the teams were upset about was the fact
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  that the fans were going to be able to listen to their radio
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  communications. And they didn't like that at
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  all. You know, now nobody thinks
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  about turning on a scanner, but at that particular time, they
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  didn't want the the fans listening in on their radio
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  communications. So I remember there was a lot of
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  uproar about that. And there was also where NASCAR
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  had sent out a document that you always have to sign the release
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  form for your hard card, and some people were just signing it
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  and sending it back. But I know it was actually what
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  was given NASCAR, their intellectual property rights.
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  Well, I mean, I remember Dale Earnhardt scratched out some
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  things he didn't like in it and initialed them and then sent it
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  back. I think Dave Marcus did the
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  same. And then we suddenly noticed
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  that they had listed on there that they owned all the
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  interviews that we did at the track and that, you know, if if
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  what we couldn't write features from them or whatever and sell
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  them anywhere else without NASCAR's permission.
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  And I remember Mike Cambrie made a comment and he said the way
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  this is written, if you have a baby in the infield during the
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  the race, NASCAR owns the child. Maybe we can make them pay for
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  their college education. But when that came out and when
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  reporters started refusing to sign it, NASCAR actually got
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  into negotiations with the attorneys because the newspapers
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  we worked for were copyrighted. Well, they owned our stuff.
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  NASCAR didn't own it. Didn't matter if it was a
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  photograph or a story. The newspaper we worked for, the
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  magazine we worked for owned it. So at that time, Matt Ritter
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  still owned The Charlotte Observer, Miami Herald,
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  Columbia, SC paper, a lot of others.
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  And the attorneys for Knight Ridder and USA TODAY Gannett all
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  got into negotiating with NASCAR over that phrase being in there
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  because the phrase was that they owned it for perpetuity.
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  Well, you can't own something that everybody, somebody else
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  has a copyright on. That's the closest the media has
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  ever come to boycotting the Daytona 500.
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  They finally got it settled, I want to say about Friday.
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  That's when it was a week long. You had Daytona 500 qualifying
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  on one weekend and the 500 on the next, and there were
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  reporters that had started driving to the Daytona.
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  They got phone calls from their newspapers telling them to turn
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  around and come home. Wow, that's interesting.
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  And also if if at that time, Deb, in your early career, if I
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  would have looked at you and said, hey, guess what, Deb,
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  someday there's going to be a guy that's going to be running
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  for the championship and he's also going to have a lawsuit
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  against the sanctioning body. I understand things happen in
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  business and they're a little strange, but right now we're
• 19:33
  looking at something like that. I know you spend a lot of your
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  time Deb researching and looking into this sort of thing.
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  What is your take in general on where this lawsuit is between
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  2311 and NASCAR and where is it going?
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  Are we going to find some common ground and make this thing go
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  away or, or could this be as bad as some people are saying it?
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  Is I think it's going to be as bad as some people are saying
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  for the simple reason that currently after being in the
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  hearing last Thursday, the two parties remind me of two mules
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  that have dug in their heels, barred their teeth and laid
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  their ears back. And what people are missing,
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  they've, they're so focused on the charters that I think
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  everybody needs to go back and read the original complaint very
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  closely because. If NASCAR loses this antitrust
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  suit, it could be it could affect all racing in this
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  country adversely because it mentions in the original
• 20:37
  complaint about spec parts and pieces.
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  And you know, every racing series in this country is
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  privately owned. It's not governed the way the
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  NBA is or the NFL is. And the situation is the reason
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  they instituted spec engines and spec cars and all was to reduce
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  the cost. So if that gets thrown out to
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  where you can't have spec racing anymore, well, you know, look at
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  IndyCar, look at what's in NASCAR.
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  You know, these little tracks that are trying desperately to
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  hang on and survive won't be able to make rules governing
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  spec engines and all to help reduce the cost for the
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  competitors. So, Deb, I got to share
• 21:30
  something with the people that are watching this and I think
• 21:32
  they'll love this story. When you said a moment ago that
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  that Lee Spencer talked to you when you got the award and said
• 21:38
  that you dedicated your life to the sport.
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  I, I got to tell people when we used to do our weekday show on
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  SiriusXM, there were a couple times when people had called up
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  and they had said something and are asked a question.
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  I said, you know what, I need to find that answer and I'll find
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  that answer for you. And guess what?
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  I got a text on my phone right away from Deb Williams and it
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  said the answer to the question. And so I could say, look guys,
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  here you go. I got it from an.
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  Authority, right? Now for you that that we have
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  this information for you, Deb, that's dedication.
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  And by the way, thank you for that.
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  You're welcome. I always appreciate it.
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  I don't know what it was, but you're welcome.
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  I forget exactly what it was Deb, but there are a couple
• 22:23
  things I said, guys, I don't know.
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  And then all of a sudden my phone abuzz and it was Deb.
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  And we we certainly do appreciate.
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  That I do that today. Moody a lot.
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  And Danielle tried it too. Sometimes I'll do it to Bagley.
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  And we appreciate it. It's just great to help.
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  But but again, it's you paying attention, Deb, to what's going
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  on. And I think people, people don't
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  pay attention to what's going on these days.
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  Like our old buddy Larry Mack says, don't cost a dime to pay
• 22:49
  attention. But I think when people do pay
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  attention to their craft, when they are dedicated to their
• 22:56
  craft, great things do happen. But overall, Deb, when you look
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  at this, I know there's things going on behind the scenes
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  legally, but really, I think this year when you look at the
• 23:09
  the butts that are in the seats, the pairs of eyes that are on
• 23:12
  the TV, yes, sponsors come and go and some big ones have left
• 23:16
  recently. But what, what's your overall
• 23:19
  take, Deb, with with your experience and being right next
• 23:22
  to this sport for so long? Where does it stand right now?
• 23:25
  Is it in good shape? I've, I felt really good about
• 23:31
  it until the lawsuit got filed and now everything is up in the
• 23:35
  air again because as the judge said on Thursday, we won't know
• 23:39
  what 2026 looks like until this lawsuit is settled, until the
• 23:44
  jury makes a decision, he said. You know, if, if the plaintiffs
• 23:49
  meaning 2311 in front row Motorsports wins, NASCAR is
• 23:55
  going to look very different in 2026 than what it does now.
• 23:59
  But if the defendants IE NASCAR win, we know what 2026 is going
• 24:04
  to look like. You know, I yes, I think the
• 24:07
  sponsors are coming back now. I think what a lot of people
• 24:11
  don't realize is that where the seats are covered up some
• 24:15
  places, those are now sold as billboards where the sponsors
• 24:19
  are. I also don't think a lot of
• 24:21
  people realize that the reason a lot of the seats were taken down
• 24:25
  is because I know in North Carolina there's a seat tax, so
• 24:30
  you've got to pay a tax on every seat you have at that stadium.
• 24:34
  So if you're not selling them, it only makes sense to take them
• 24:38
  down and sell trackside places for the motorhomes because
• 24:45
  you're already paying property tax on that land anyway.
• 24:49
  So you could say that renting out a mobile home, mobile A
• 24:53
  motorhome trackside is in a in a sense gravy because you've
• 24:59
  already paid the property tax on the property that the motorhomes
• 25:02
  parked on. So tracks are, you know, they
• 25:06
  overbuilt. Let's face it, they overbuilt in
• 25:08
  the 90s when NASCAR was like a runaway train.
• 25:12
  And then NASCAR kind of got off the rails a little bit with the
• 25:17
  dog being competition and the tail being marketing, and the
• 25:21
  tail started wagging the dog for about 20 years.
• 25:24
  We lost a generation of fans and now they've got it back on the
• 25:29
  track and the competition, the dog's wagging the tail again.
• 25:34
  So, you know, I feel good about the sport.
• 25:37
  I feel really good about the situation it's in, but I do have
• 25:42
  a little bit of a lump in my throat regarding this lawsuit.
• 25:47
  So, Deb, I know everything we do is not completely positive.
• 25:50
  Sometimes you do have to report on things like the lawsuit or,
• 25:53
  or, or some things that are going to be negative with people
• 25:56
  that we consider friends. What was there some situations
• 25:59
  along the way for you and your career that you had to do that
• 26:03
  that you had to report a story that you know was was either
• 26:06
  derogatory or negative about a competitor that you see week in
• 26:10
  and week out? I know that's one of the tougher
• 26:12
  things about NASCAR. Everybody competes at the same
• 26:15
  venue week in and week out. It's not like the NFL where
• 26:18
  you're scattered all over the country.
• 26:20
  You have to see these people and that's a tough part.
• 26:23
  Where were you ever faced with that to where you had to report
• 26:26
  a story that was probably going to get you maybe a little bit of
• 26:29
  hot water with a competitor? Well, I won't say hot water, but
• 26:34
  I will say that the one that always stands out in my mind was
• 26:39
  when Richard Petty got caught with the oversized engine and
• 26:42
  the left side tires on the right side after he won the fall race
• 26:46
  at Charlotte in 1983. And that's that's the one that
• 26:52
  really stands out in my mind as as being I would say that's when
• 26:56
  I truly went from fan to journalist was when I had to
• 27:00
  cover that story. But you know, that that's the
• 27:04
  one that that really stands out in my mind.
• 27:07
  The others. Rusty Wallace wasn't happy when
• 27:11
  I was covering his lawsuit against Raymond Beetle.
• 27:14
  He didn't like some of the things that was written.
• 27:16
  And I told him I said, well, you know, if you didn't want
• 27:18
  something public, your attorney should have sealed it.
• 27:21
  And he said, you mean he can do that?
• 27:23
  I said, yeah, he should have told you that.
• 27:25
  So then the the anger transferred from to the attorney
• 27:29
  from me. But as far as you know,
• 27:34
  actually, yeah, I always try. I'm, I'm a conservative
• 27:37
  journalist. I don't do yellow journalism and
• 27:40
  I just wasn't trained that way. I don't feel comfortable with
• 27:43
  it. So I'm the type person that when
• 27:46
  I write a story, I want to make sure I've got everything, that
• 27:50
  if I have to go to court, I'll win.
• 27:52
  And otherwise I don't just throw things out there.
• 27:56
  Well, you know, Dad, that's probably one of the reasons that
• 27:59
  we're having this discussion like we're having right now
• 28:01
  about your being the recipient of that Ken Squire Hall of Fame
• 28:05
  award. I think sometimes we hear about
• 28:08
  colleagues. We might say, you know, that
• 28:10
  person. Yeah, they, they, they did this
• 28:12
  or got this on anything across the board here, Deb.
• 28:15
  People are just saying what a well deserved honor.
• 28:19
  That was the first thing that came to my mind.
• 28:21
  And I want to congratulate you once again.
• 28:24
  And I hope there's many, many more years of your career in
• 28:27
  front of you. But I think this is such an
• 28:29
  affirmation right now, what you've been able to do and the
• 28:32
  respect you have with your colleagues.
• 28:34
  Just congratulations. It just, it's really, this is a
• 28:37
  very good, happy story to talk about.
• 28:40
  Thank you. I appreciate it tremendously.
• 28:42
  It means a great deal to me all. Right Deb?
• 28:45
  Well, I thank you for your time. Great talk and hope to see you
• 28:48
  very soon. I hope so.
• 28:51
  Take care.