Latest / CLEAR Performance Coaching / Podcast #19 - CLEAR Performance Coaching - QUICK START - Coach in the Gaps - Full Version (Audio)

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Podcast #19 - CLEAR Performance Coaching - QUICK START - Coach in the Gaps - Full Version (Audio) · CLEAR Performance Coaching

• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you can still be show up on purpose every day.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Good morning, everybody, and welcome back to Clear Performance Coaching Podcast, where we take ordinary leaders and help them become great coaches who create extraordinary results.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Rick Timlick.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Sam Bracken.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Kent Vaughn.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: And welcome back.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're stealing our quick start cards, and today's card kills the single biggest objection we get from coaching.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have time.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's card 45, and it's about coaching in the gaps of the day.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Our hope is by the end of this episode, you'll see that the hour you think coaching requires was never the requirement.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: It could be 60 seconds done consistently, which will be at an hour anytime.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: My opinion is the science agrees with it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: But let's get into it.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, how often do you guys come across this objection of, you know, it sounds good, but I don't have time to do that?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: What I find is that most of the people that I coach are very busy.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: I like to say that they run fast and shallow.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: And they're just busy, man.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: And they got a lot of responsibilities, a lot of KPIs to hit.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: And to be a good coach, you need to slow down just a bit.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Slow down a bit.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And and because when they see, when someone sees an egregious error, a lot of times people think, well, they'll address it later.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: And because they're so busy, they never get to it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: The best time to correct an error is right at the moment of mistake, because then they can, it's fresh, and you can help them understand it and through a coaching process draw out what they thought went wrong and what they thought went well and what kind of corrective action they need to take.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's best done in the moment.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: As a collegiate athlete years ago, you know, we had real-time success and failure, and we had to do real-time adjustments, and that's where you really learn is when you do real-time adjustments.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's my thoughts on it.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Ken, what about you?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it reminds me, I actually did a video about this a few years ago called something of the toothbrush, right?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: It comes from my youngest, who's now 30-year-old mechanical engineer in tech.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: When he was five, getting ready to go to kindergarten, he was so excited to start kindergarten with why because he's seen his older siblings go to school and he loved school.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sunday night, he kept coming back downstairs every few minutes with you know all his plans for school.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I got my clothes, I got this, I got that.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then he very carefully walked down the stairs with his toothbrush, holding it carefully with five layers of toothpaste on the top of the toothbrush, pulling it, trying not to drop it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What's going on?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Well, listen, it takes me a minute to brush my teeth every morning.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: How about if I do it now with all this toothpaste?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And am I good for the week?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'll save time till Saturday.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I started laughing.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Wow, I love your ingenuity, son.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Great idea.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if you do that by Wednesday afternoon, your teeth are gonna have sweaters on them.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: He said, What?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have sweaters for my teeth, Dad.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: But you brushing is one of those things you just have to do every day.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: It takes time, but you have to do it every day.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he was so dejected because he thought he'd really figured out something, right?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let me get ahead of the week now by just brushing, you know, Sunday night or Monday morning, I'm good for the week.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And often that's what we think about with coaching.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: We have several clients who talk about one-on-ones.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: One-on-ones are so important, they want one-on-ones once a month, or you meet with somebody for an hour and you do all these things, and then what happens?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Something blows up and you miss the one month, and you miss two months, and all of a sudden you've had a couple of months without any one-on-ones.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: We would say it's a lot like that brushing the teeth.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit of time consistently, even if it's just, you know, 10 minutes in the week, in kind of the scenes of the day, the gaps of the day, or you're already talking to somebody, you're already, hey, how are you doing?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, what about this or this or this?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: The power of that is a lot like brushing your teeth every day.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just a little bit consistently consistently.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're not saying you have to coach people every day, but a little done consistently is a lot better than a lot done very infrequently.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's that little incremental kind of continuous drip reinforcement.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, but the other thing that happens is a lot of times people think, well, we haven't talked to them.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess they don't care.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they go to straight to, I guess they don't care.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or guess that goal doesn't matter, right?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what's going on in their minds because we frankly, as humans, we tend to think assume the worst.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if they haven't talked to me, I guess that really doesn't matter anymore.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or I guess I'm not important.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so interesting how quickly people devolve into that when we don't give them a little consistent time.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Kid, that's very significant.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's a huge point.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: I love the idea of daily check-ins when it's manageable.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: Check-ins and checkouts are really one of the most powerful forms of informal leadership and informal coaching that you can use just to see how someone's doing, just to check in with them, just to see what they're struggling with.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: And when you can identify what they're struggling with, then you can make a correction and coach in the seams of the day with some positive reinforcement around principles and then pull out what they think the answer is.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: But that doesn't happen if you're not caring about people to visit with them and check in with them every day.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it's funny the question that I was wondering, because you know, I hear the same thing, but what are they actually telling you when they say they don't have time to coach?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And Sam, I think you're kind of alluding it.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's some element of care and nurturing of my people regularly.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: You either want to or you don't want to.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think about some of the best leaders I've ever seen.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're leaders that in the morning when people walk in or at the second shift, third shift, they're there consciously meeting people.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're carving out time.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: How you doing?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, we're glad you're here.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: That is frankly a little bit of coaching, just welcoming them to the place today.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks for being here.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing when you show up and the leaders there saying, Hey, glad you're here.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Good to see you, you know.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Some leaders are off working and doing things, not as if everyone doesn't have a million things they could be doing, but the value of just connecting with people briefly at the beginning of the shift, at the beginning of the day, welcoming them, glad they're here, thank you for being here, you know, greeting them with a smile.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't know what people left when they left the car.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what they left when they left the house, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what they're carrying on their shoulders today already.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, what the heck?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is it Monday already?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just a little, hey, welcome, thanks for coming today.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes people say, Well, that's their job.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but they didn't have to come, they didn't have to be here, they're here.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just be glad they're here.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a seam of the day, the beginning of the day.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Just a thought.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: This weekend I was reminded in certain Asian cultures and I guess in African cultures as well, it's really important to take the time to say, I see you.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like I see you, like you're important, you matter.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: I see you.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: And when I can start off conversations with that, boy, things go way better.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think, Rick?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's funny the the opposite of that.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I was just coaching an executive the other day who actually makes it a habit of walking the plant floor every morning.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, he says hi to people, he knows them by name, knows about their family.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now, over the last month, he got super, super busy.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And because he got super, super busy, that plant floor walk started to happen less and less frequently until last week he didn't do it at all.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, it was amazing how many people came and started asking him, Are you okay?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, normally you're down there just checking up and things like that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And when you didn't, we got worried about you.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought, you know, just what you're talking about is interesting that care of people kind of goes both ways.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: When you spend the time to invest into it, people, you know, want to reciprocate that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: As you get trust, as you do this, right, you're gonna establish trust, and trust is gonna increase, and you're gonna get more and more honest and open, authentic feedback.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Now, here's the thing you're gonna start getting people asking you for advice, and we know it's the death nail of coaching.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: We don't give advice, we give prototypes.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: So be on guard for as you're doing this, and people say, What do you think of this?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think of that?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: And you can give your opinion, but even then, I don't like giving my opinion.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I always go, what do you think?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: I always turn it back to them and say, What do you think?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think the best alternative is?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: What would you do?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then, but you got to be on guard.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's a couple things as a coach you need to be on guard for.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: One is to listen always with all your senses, the other one is to don't give advice, right?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: And the other one is to just naturally be curious and care about people.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: Those three things can open up the world of coaching for you in ways that are just marvelous.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've worked with lots of project leaders over the years, and it's funny when I'm training these skills.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you often ask a project leader, how is it going?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how's your project going?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: You could get in response back good and you could keep passing each other, but you've learned no information.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: You've got nothing.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Good is not a great way to describe the status of our project.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: I always say, give me the detail, give me the specifics.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's what I say whenever I hear that.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, exactly.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think that you could do this, and we talk about 60 seconds.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what would a 60-second coaching moment look like, Sam?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: It would first, it would first be like personal concern, see how their day is.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then what I usually do is I say, Well, what do you hope to accomplish today?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: What would winning look like for you today?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then they usually tell me, and then I say, Okay, what obstacles are you facing?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then they say, the obstacles.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, how are you going to overcome those obstacles?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: I just ask specific questions.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: And if they don't know, then I take a little bit longer time and I say, Well, do you want to do a little workout on how we might do that?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: How we might find a solution?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: You're the one that does the real work.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: You're closer to the work than anybody else.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then sometimes I that five minute, you know, that five-minute meet and greet thing will turn into a 15-minute, you know, coaching session in the seams of the day.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then finally, after we get some enlightenment, I say, What are you going to do about it?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's the big question.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: What are you going to do about it and how can I support you?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: What are you going to do about it and how can I support you?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Are really good questions as well as a coach to be to keep in mind.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like that.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Ken, you ran plants when you were younger.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: What would you kind of advise your younger self about coaching and doing it in the seams of the day?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the things, and we've already talked about it, is be visible, be out there, talking to people, walking the floor.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I resonated with the example of the person you're coaching now who got so busy they didn't do that.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done the same thing where you get busy, you've got a lot of things coming up, or some changes, or whatever else.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: You've got some executive coming to visit the planet or whatever.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you get away from being out there.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what we forget is it doesn't take long for people to feel like, yeah, well, I guess it doesn't matter, or maybe he's not interested in us, or whatever else.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love Sam's example of saying, hey, what's a win look like you to you today, right?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And let them tell you.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I love that follow-up.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell Sam's got this in his DNA, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't so much he's forced it in his DNA.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, say, well, what obstacles do you see foresee today?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what are you gonna do about those, right?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I love this idea of what are you gonna do?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because so often, as a leader, people come to you with questions, or you're out walking, and they say, Hey, what do you think about X, Y, and Z?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the natural leader is you just tell them.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: You just tell them.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And Sam alluded to that demi quote about, you know, the person standing within 12 feet of the job knows the job, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so just Sam, well, what do you think?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: How would you handle this?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not natural for most of us.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're so used to solving problems, we're so used to fixing things that we just think, oh, quick, I'll just tell them this and we're on.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of, well, what do you think?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: How would you handle it?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: What obstacles do you see?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what are you going to do about it?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: How can I help you?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And just forcing ourselves.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you, I have had to change decades of doing the opposite thing.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Really working hard at it.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Even then, I still fail at it, right?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Just say, okay, wait a minute, you gave the answer.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Why'd you do that?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because you just shut down the them giving you their answer, because their answer was completely different than what you said.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you're thinking, oh, well, I guess I had a bad answer.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, they probably had the right answer.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: They probably had the wrong answer.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is but you really have to say, okay, stop doing what I've been doing for decades.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: The best way that I found to get people to inspire and activated action because they're they're part of the co-creation, they're part of the co-creating of the of the solution, and they're highly, much highly more motivated and more likely to execute to go do that, right?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: They were built up and they're part of the solution.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: It works far better.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oftentimes, if you tell them what to do, they'll do it and maybe not do it with full excitement, and then they blame you if it fails.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: So co-creating things together really helps.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's funny when I was talking with that executive, I was trying to ask him, like, what did you notice?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he his response was, I felt so disconnected, not only between the people that I interact regularly, but what was actually going on with the work that I was ultimately responsible for.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so he realized himself like he needed to work on strategy stuff, but to be as disconnected from the work really wasn't helping him or his objectives either.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so he had to intentionally say, I'm not sacrificing that time.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Even if I have to make it shorter, it's going to happen every day.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, think about the pulse you get on the whole spirit and the culture of the plant or the organization when you do this.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like by spending an hour every morning, you know, connecting with your people, or at least your direct reports as you go through the day, you get a sense for how people are feeling, what their attitudes are like, what the culture is doing, right?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: You get a pulse on the culture.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know how you do that without spending time with people that that are in your organization.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: I've just never, I don't know if I'm not smart enough or but to get a sense of that culture, you got to pay the price to do that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that happens in the seams of the day.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't happen with one giant meeting every day.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: It can happen in the seams.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I like the seams in the day because to me, it also overrides the potential threat response.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, those leaders that do one-on-ones infrequently, and then all of a sudden you schedule a one-on-one, like that anxiety starts to go up, like, oh crap, what did I do?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or what's not happening, or what's my boss you know, not comfortable with?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas that small kind of doses regularly, you know, kind of slide under that threat response.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a quick question, as you said, Sam.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't trip the alarm.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the beauty of finding it in the scenes of the day.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Kim, what were you saying?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love what you just said.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh what I was thinking is uh as a thing about my own myself as a leader, that you may not be able to do this every day, right?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: But what if you chose two or three days a week, that you were out walking the floor or the office or whatever meeting else and meeting people, particularly on Monday, right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or whenever your week work week begins to welcome people.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here's what it requires: it requires that I've got to get in early.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't slide in just the time, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to get in early, start looking at things, and then because the reason we are in a hurry talking to people, if we are talking to people, is because we got to get to our desk and get the stuff squared away.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: We know it's waiting there, right?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got to get in a little early, get my head right, start looking at things, and even have an alarm set.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now it's now 8 a.m.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: or it's 7:30 or whatever it is, people are gonna be walking in the door and go start meeting people and talking to people and build that into my day.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: But we're not saying you have to do it every day.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's some value in it, but it's certainly if you're gonna start and welcome people.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you an example.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I do some work in an organization where a new leader was put into place about, I don't know, maybe six months ago, three or four months ago.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I noticed at the beginning that, and I was only there once or twice a month, but at the very beginning, he was always there when people walked in and welcome them, so it's nice to meet you, et cetera, et cetera.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I noticed he doesn't do that as much anymore.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I suspect it's maybe he's gotten, you know, covered up with things to do and the responsibilities are weighing on him, et cetera.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I noticed at first he did that really well, and I in all seems actually on Friday.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if I had to say, hey, I noticed you used to be here meeting everybody when they came in.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was so welcoming.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Do you still do that and just not you're not doing it when I'm walking in?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, meaning I'm not there all the time, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it's funny how we can quickly let everything kind of get away from us, because it happens, it's just natural, that we forget who are the people that are driving the results in your organization.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what we know with certainty.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to see who's getting the work done day in and day out, it's the people doing the work.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why it's so important to be a part of what they're doing.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: You you know, I want to address something here that's probably an important, it's a nuance.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say you're doing your walk-arounds or your check-ins with people, and you see something egregious, so a big mistake, something bad happening.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not needs correction.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: How do you handle that in a coaching mindset?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that would I'm curious for you guys to answer that question.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: I have my answer, but I would love to hear your answer.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, to me, you just said the word.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there are quick start cards.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: The first one we start with was curiosity.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: So even if I see something egregious, and let's assume it's not about to injure somebody or violate a core value or an ethics, then I start with curiosity.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, that's immediately what can you remind us an old manufacturing guy?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is that if someone's gonna get hurt, you jump in.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: You don't wait.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's about to get hurt, you stop it now.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You take care of it because this is not the time to be curious.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is the time to be careful and protect people.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be able to go home when they can't.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want them to have this 20 years later from a minor mistake, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's it works, but it's that it's not the way it was supposed the way it started, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that's the first thing that comes to my mind.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: But then if it's not that, it it is what we say and how we say.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So something like, hey, what's going on?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you say, hey, what's going on, you shut down everything.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: You asked the question, you were quote unquote curious, but the way we came at someone and you shut everything down, right?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, what's going on?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about this.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, something very inquisitive, et cetera.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that isn't human nature.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: At least not when you're the leader for years and years.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: You build up to, I got to solve this, I gotta fix this.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: If we let this keep going, there's gonna be a problem.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You go and pull the line, you go and pull the line and shut it down instead of talking to them about them doing it.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're just gonna, well, you know, Kent's gonna be over here.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: He'll watch and he'll shut the line down instead of, hey, you're responsible for shutting the line down, or whatever it is, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's my thinking.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you have a much better answer.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I have a better answer.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: I just I use curiosity to my advantage.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: If I see something that's being done wrong, I just ask, well, tell me your thinking around this.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: And are you open to different ways to do this specific thing that you're doing here and and why are you doing it this way?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: And are you open to consider some other things?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And if they say yes, then you can share with them some other things and then get into this.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: Here's another, here's a you brainstorm new ideas, and then and then get them to think through it, and then challenge them to actually do something different.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: But correction is a very it can be very complex, but to challenge someone is my favorite way to offer correction, is to challenge them to see it differently, to do things differently, and then to make a commitment with the correction to do it better.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody, when they're doing their job, you know, their job, the their behavior produces an outcome.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: If they want a better outcome, they probably need to shift the behavior, right?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, or change the behavior.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: So the challenge in changing the behavior and then making commitment to that challenge really helps you make the correction and then follow up.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Then you got to follow up.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's really, really important.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then praise the new behavior that gets you a better result.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think the only thing that I would add to that, I agree, Kent, as I said, you know, safety right away you stop.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: But to me, there's also, you know, I'll call out and try to stop a violation of values immediately or a violation of ethics.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the three ones that I always intervene immediately.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: But right after that, depending on the situation, before I lead with curiosity, I want to reaffirm expectation.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if if we're producing, if we produced a thousand widgets wrong off spec, you know, do we have the current spec in front of us first that we can look from?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a version of curiosity.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's but it's before I'm asking it about behavior.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: I want to make sure do we have the right spec?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Do we know what good looked like?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do we have the information in front of us so that we could be successful?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that gathering of data for me, sometimes I need to proceed before curiosity, because if I ask an open ended, curious question without some kind of framework to go with it, we could get a little bit lost in that.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just something that I'm considering of.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's really important because.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: We always want to look at the data.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: We take direction from the data.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: We make decisions based on data.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: We understand feelings, but the data matters.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: The specs matter, the data matters, the throughput matters.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like the data matters.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times people may feel upset, but the data doesn't show what maybe shows poor performance.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then they feel upset.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: So is separating the two can be very helpful as a coach.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: But again, the way you the way we reduce emotion to be able to separate feelings and facts is through understanding, which is being curious and listening.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and to me, it's also like true listening.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: The worst version is how's it going without any curiosity behind it?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's like I'm trying to do a pass by.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And people feel that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: People know that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: They'll just say things are great and they'll let me go.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I love about this card are the three watch outs on the back.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're really great watch outs.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: The first watch out is exactly what you would expect.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Be careful when giving corrective feedback.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Be gentle yet direct and do it in private.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, sometimes you're in an open office format and it's hard to give it in private, right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you just say, hey, can we have a conversation?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then try to talk to them offline in your office or somewhere else, right?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next one, which is equally important, be open to feedback, assessing it and redirecting your behavior and actions, right?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes people are going to give us feedback where we didn't do something well, or we, you know, and they're going to say, hey, I X, Y, who knows what they're going to say, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So be open to that and don't get upset.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Rick and I were leading a coaching session with a client just a couple weeks ago, and we did a practice where I was showing them what to do and how to do it.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And there were some things I didn't do exactly right.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of did it that way, so they'd catch them, right?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then they said, Well, you didn't do this and this and this.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, thank you.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you caught that, right?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't always feel that way when people say, Hey, you didn't do that exactly right, especially in front of everybody else.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: But hey, they were doing exactly what I wanted them to do.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, what went well, what didn't go well here, because that we were about to have them do the same thing.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So be open.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: If we're going to give feedback, we're going to get feedback, and we do want feedback, right?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the you know, feedback's the breakfast of champions, but but what is it, you know, the interim champions is making the adjustments I need to make, right?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Change my behavior, change my actions.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And finally it says be loyal to people, share their strengths, don't focus on their weaknesses.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really easy when we've got folks that aren't performing to feel like, well, they're doing everything wrong.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're usually not.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Usually not.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Usually they've got one or two things they need to tighten up or straighten out, but focus on their strengths.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as you do that, you empower them, they feel a little more strengthened, like, okay, and there are a couple things to work on.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for what you're doing.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the uh there's a coach that we know that always talks about you never say but, you say and you're really well, great, but yeah, you're doing really well, and it'd be helpful if you, right?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because the butt shuts everything down, right?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, one of the last questions I ask every person that I'm coaching before I finish my coaching session is how am I showing up for you?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything I'm doing that you'd rather have me do different?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything I'm doing that you'd have me do differently?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: And do I need to shift anything to support you better in your endeavors?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I get really wonderful feedback with stuff like that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: And most of the time it's really positive, but I'm always doing it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm always doing it because I want to model the fact that I need feedback, and just as they're learning, I'm learning.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a two-way street.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: I teach them, they teach me, we teach each other, we both learn, we both keep commitments, and we move forward and we make good progress.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I like that reciprocal cycle.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I can imagine when you first started asking, because I I asked that question too, and you you still kind of get you know blank expressions, and almost like I don't know how to respond to this person who's asking me for feedback when they have, you know, maybe authority or positional power or influence, you know, that I feel is greater than mine.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: I was doing a team coaching session one time and I was getting a little crazy with my examples.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And and as I asked for feedback, one of the program facilitators said, You're being a little edgy.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, I can change that instantly.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the next time we met, I pulled way back and I said, How I said, I got some feedback last time that I was a little edgy, so I apologize for that.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: I never want to offend anybody.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: I always want to help people inspire and unlock their passion to change, learn, and grow, regardless of their circumstance.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: And today I'll I'll commit to do to be a little bit less edgy and more profound.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: And at the end of the, it's funny because I addressed the issue at the end of the coaching session.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: I had like 10 people come up to me and goes, I like that old, the old Sam was better.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were giving me feedback that, you know, I like the edgy Sam, not the other Sam.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, I gotta respect everybody.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, when you're doing team coaching, it gets a little more complicated, but it's a funny story that might, you know.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: But again, it's more about the feedback, right?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: Completely, yeah, yeah.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what does the worst version of this look like?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we talked a lot about what a good looks like.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: What's the worst version look like?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know It looks like someone going around looking at people's work, telling them what to do, and saying, hey, you need to do that, hey, you need to do this, hey, you need to do that, and be like a crazy, crazy uh king that like wants what he wants when he wants it and doesn't care about anybody's feelings or excuses and beats a drum saying, like, sell more, sell more, sell more, do more, do more, and I don't care, I don't care, do do do.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it looks like to me.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that was pretty dramatic.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: I apologize.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was perfect.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was the oh crap leader that we talk about versus the oh yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: When that version of Sam walks in the room, people like, oh crap, here we go.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's how Sam used to be.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's the problem.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, my old self was highly driven that way, highly intense, scaring the crap out of everybody, and that's no bueno, man.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: That doesn't help people get better.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Kent, what about you?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I loved Sam's little example there because I think it's so true.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes those leaders when we get so concerned about the results and the outcomes and the output that we forget every result comes because somebody did something, right?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And am I around, and do people kind of shut down because I'm around, I'm pushing on them, jamming on them, grinding on them, as Sam often says, or do they feel like, hey, cancer, he's gonna help us figure it out?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so their critical thinking and their creative thinking goes up.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's you've heard me say, and I've said this in at least half a dozen of these webinars, but it's so true.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like you to think for a minute about yourself as a leader.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: When you walk in, does the energy improve, or does it improve when you leave?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been the leader who that walked in and we got a lot done, but man, the energy didn't go up, the excitement, enthusiasm go up, but we got the results went up, but that only lasts as long as you're standing there.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen Cove used to say, if you bug people enough, work becomes the course of least resistance.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: But when you leave, the work goes away, right?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the and that's that's the thing to remember.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: What am I trying to do?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Am I trying to create people that can do this when I'm not here?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: That are even better when I'm not here, or they're only doing it when you know the cat's here standing over it and the mice, making the mice do things, right?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's so easy to become the first one, the oh crap leader that's pushing, that's grinding, get this done, get this done, that gets done, versus the leader that says, Hey, what do you think?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get this done?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're the oh yeah leader, you're helping them come up with and increase their creative thinking, their critical thinking, their ideas about to solve it, versus, you know, wow, you gotta stand over them.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we used to work with a lady years ago who's who was from Australia.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I heard her saying one time that her brother was complaining about the turnover in his organization.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he was one of those, frankly, oh crap kinds of leaders.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: He stood over people, he grinded on people every day, he like managed with a whip, etc.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he had tremendous turnover.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: He got great results in the short run, but invariably people would leave.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: The good people would leave, right?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as they realized what was really going on there, they're like, I'm out of here, I'm on to the next place, right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he thought, why are you, why do I always have such bad turnover?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And his sister's like, are you kidding me?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: You lead like a tyrant.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: You lead like somebody from decades ago, and no wonder people leave.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he was totally oblivious to it.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: He just thought that's what you do.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not what you do anymore.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: In 2026 and beyond, that doesn't work.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And for all of you that are still managing the old way because you're getting results, just imagine this.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: How much better could the results be if people were bringing their A game in their head every day?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: If they came in thinking, I'm gonna solve this, I'm gonna fix this, versus they're gonna do whatever you tell them to do.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get results, but they're not lasting results, and that's not how you keep your best people.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: You lose the best people and everybody else quits and stays.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Stay is only else right now.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna stay here until there's a better opportunity.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that you have to ask yourself, which do you want?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Short-term results or do you want long-term results?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Short-term results, you stand over, you dictate, you direct, you drive.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Long-term results is a completely different deal.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're still struggling with that, good luck.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what I really love about coaching in the scenes of the day.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, check the card out, card 45.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Notice what it doesn't ask for.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't ask for you to grab your calendar out, book a one-on-one in your office.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's no training budget, there's no personality transplant.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just have to ask one question in the gap of the day that I already have.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, like any leader can run that plate tomorrow morning.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: In kind of closing, what would you guys add to that?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Take advantage of small moments every day to build your people to do with caring and curiosity and solve problems together.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Kent?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: As I think about the best leaders I've ever had in my life, it's not big things I remember, it's the little things, what they said or what they did, or when I made a mistake, how they responded to it.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the things that I remember.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're not some big, hairy, audacious thing.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just little things, little moments like we're talking about here, where you they spoke a positive reinforcing thought, or shared a positive reinforcing thought, or uh, I believe in you, you've got this, you've done this before, you can do this.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: You want to know what I think?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: They do want to know what you think.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: So here's the assignment, and it's almost embarrassingly small.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to pick one anchor in your day, whether it's your stand-up on the walk floor, whatever it is, and attach one question to it.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: What's the trickiest part of your day?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: What's the trickiest part of this right now?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if you run that every day for two weeks, no sessions, no invites, no hour, just that question for two weeks.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Two weeks from now, you'll have 10 real coaching conversations.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the research says those 10 beat any single hour you could have ever booked.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Consistency beats intensity, and that's the cart.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, it might be the whole show.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, with that, we thank you for joining us with this podcast.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: We'll put all of the show notes and all the links appropriate in the show notes.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: With that, have a great day.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for being with us.