Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Why You Should Spend Less Time With Your Kids [Interview with Lenore Skenazy]

Transcript

Why You Should Spend Less Time With Your Kids [Interview with Lenore Skenazy] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to The Happy Family's podcast. My name's Doctor
0:08
Speaker 1: Justin Coulson. She has been dubbed America's worst mum by
0:12
Speaker 1: the media and frankly, where's it as badge of honor.
0:15
Speaker 1: Lenoskanazzy New York Times best selling author of Free Range
0:19
Speaker 1: Kids and co founder of Let Grow, alongside the most
0:23
Speaker 1: relevant psychologist in the world right now, Jonathan Hate, sparked
0:26
Speaker 1: a cultural revolution with one simple act. She let her
0:30
Speaker 1: nine year old ride the New York subway alone. Now,
0:34
Speaker 1: if you've been to New York, you know that there
0:36
Speaker 1: would be some tension in your shoulders if you allowed
0:39
Speaker 1: that to happen. But that's what she did, then wrote
0:40
Speaker 1: an article about it because she was a journo, and
0:43
Speaker 1: my goodness, didn't the world blow up. Now, fresh from
0:45
Speaker 1: the TED main stage with her talk why you should
0:48
Speaker 1: spend less time with your kids, Lenora is back and
0:52
Speaker 1: she's one of our favorites. We'll talk with Lenoskanazi next.
0:56
Speaker 1: Stay tuned, Gay Welcome this The Happy Family's podcast, Real
1:01
Speaker 1: Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.
1:05
Speaker 1: It's so good to be with your Thanks for choosing
1:07
Speaker 1: to spend some time with us today. If you've been
1:09
Speaker 1: listening to the pod for a while, you know Leonor Scanazzi.
1:12
Speaker 1: She's the woman who became America's worst month in inverted
1:15
Speaker 1: commas in air quotes for letting her nine year old
1:17
Speaker 1: ride the New York subway alone, and then turned that
1:20
Speaker 1: controversial moment into a movement. As co founder of Let
1:24
Speaker 1: Grow with Jonathan Hate and the author of the New
1:26
Speaker 1: York Times best selling Free Range Kids, Lenore has been
1:30
Speaker 1: working hard to get the message across that kids need
1:32
Speaker 1: independence for years, but her recent TED talk why you
1:36
Speaker 1: Should spend Less Time with your Kids, delivered on the
1:39
Speaker 1: main stage at TED twenty twenty five in Vancouver, may
1:43
Speaker 1: be her most important message. Yet it's only a thirteen
1:46
Speaker 1: minute talk. We'll probably talk more about it today than
1:48
Speaker 1: the talk actually goes for. She dismantles what she calls
1:51
Speaker 1: the terrible lie that's been driving both parents and kids crazy,
1:55
Speaker 1: the belief that children can't handle anything on their own.
1:57
Speaker 1: So today we're diving deep into that talk, exploring why
2:00
Speaker 1: the adult takeover of childhood has created an anxiety crisis,
2:05
Speaker 1: and discovering why the most powerful learning happens when parents
2:08
Speaker 1: step back. Lenor welcome back to happy families.
2:12
Speaker 2: Very happy to be here, even though how many miles away?
2:15
Speaker 1: Am I?
2:15
Speaker 2: Is it like.
2:16
Speaker 1: Half of work? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't get much further. Yeah,
2:19
Speaker 1: but thank you. It's just a delight to talk to you.
2:22
Speaker 1: Let's talk about your ted talk. That's the whole reason
2:24
Speaker 1: I wanted to chat with you. I sat down watch
2:26
Speaker 1: the entire thirteen minutes. They've shortened them, and they do.
2:30
Speaker 1: There is so much in there. So I just want
2:33
Speaker 1: to talk about the title for a sec. If you're
2:34
Speaker 1: a helicopter parent, you're going to clutch your pearls. Why
2:37
Speaker 1: you should spend less time with your kids? You call
2:40
Speaker 1: it exposing And this is a direct quote, the terrible
2:42
Speaker 1: lie that kids can't handle anything on their own. When
2:46
Speaker 1: did unsupervised childhood which is what I grew up with,
2:50
Speaker 1: and I assume what you grew up with, Yes, of course,
2:53
Speaker 1: when did that become redefined as neglect? And what are
2:55
Speaker 1: we actually afraid of?
2:57
Speaker 2: I'd say it's started changing. It didn't happen over night,
3:00
Speaker 2: but it certainly started changing in the United States. And
3:02
Speaker 2: I have a feeling, I'm sorry to say that we
3:03
Speaker 2: sort of lead the world in fear exports you know,
3:07
Speaker 2: And for us, it started in the eighties with a
3:09
Speaker 2: couple of things that really shifted the landscape. One was
3:13
Speaker 2: cable television, which birth the twenty four hour news cycle,
3:17
Speaker 2: which meant that we had to come up with horrible
3:19
Speaker 2: things that people could be watching, almost like wallpaper in
3:22
Speaker 2: the background. Oh, another horrible thing. And then also in
3:26
Speaker 2: the States, and I doubt you did this dumb thing,
3:29
Speaker 2: but we started putting the pictures of quote unquote missing
3:32
Speaker 2: children on milk cartons. Did you ever do that?
3:35
Speaker 1: I'm not aware that ever happened, but we saw it
3:38
Speaker 1: on American TV, and conversations about the possibility of child
3:42
Speaker 1: abductions are a thing. And today there with social media
3:46
Speaker 1: and with text messaging, there are amber alerts and all
3:48
Speaker 1: these things that tell you when the child has gone
3:50
Speaker 1: missing in a local area, which I might add happens
3:54
Speaker 1: so staggeringly and frequently. In fact, you sure stat about
3:57
Speaker 1: that I'm going to come to later because it's one
3:59
Speaker 1: of the best lines of your Ted talk. But yeah,
4:02
Speaker 1: Astralia is definitely behind the United States, definitely the why
4:05
Speaker 1: but I've watched it. I mean, for the last twenty
4:07
Speaker 1: years I've been running parenting workshops around this country, and
4:10
Speaker 1: I've watched the increased intensity from a parenting perspective as
4:15
Speaker 1: we start to feel like if we are not supervising children,
4:18
Speaker 1: if we don't have them in structured activities, then are
4:21
Speaker 1: we being neglectful?
4:24
Speaker 2: Well, that is the fear, and there's sort of two
4:27
Speaker 2: parallel fears running one. There's more than two, but the
4:31
Speaker 2: biggies are that something terrible will happen to them physically,
4:34
Speaker 2: they'll be abducted or hurt, or they'll be run over
4:37
Speaker 2: by a car. And then there's the fear that they'll
4:41
Speaker 2: fall behind. And the terrible thing about that one is
4:44
Speaker 2: that it really becomes this self fulfilling cycle where, well,
4:48
Speaker 2: my kids want to go play outside, but there's no
4:50
Speaker 2: one outside. Why because they're all in travel soccer. Well,
4:53
Speaker 2: if they're in travel soccer, I guess my kid has
4:55
Speaker 2: to be in travel soccer or they'll have no one
4:57
Speaker 2: to play with. And then the next kids come outside
4:59
Speaker 2: and wonder where my caked kids are, and my kids
5:00
Speaker 2: are in travel soccer. So the fall behind thing is
5:05
Speaker 2: sort of multifaceted as well, because there's the fear that
5:09
Speaker 2: they won't be with their peers, and then there's also
5:12
Speaker 2: the fear that kids who are in organized activities are
5:16
Speaker 2: getting more out of their childhood. Whatever more is, they're
5:19
Speaker 2: getting more instruction, more opportunities, more intensive cultivation that will
5:25
Speaker 2: help them in the long run, whereas if they simply played,
5:28
Speaker 2: they're sort of, you know, wasting their time lying fallow.
5:33
Speaker 2: And so what are you about to? Oh you Range
5:35
Speaker 2: one of my favorite I.
5:36
Speaker 1: Was going to ask you for you with David Epstein's
5:38
Speaker 1: book Range.
5:39
Speaker 2: Yes, I used to work with his wife.
5:41
Speaker 1: Oh well. I mean, this is a book that says,
5:45
Speaker 1: don't get your kids into early specializational, structured activities too young,
5:48
Speaker 1: because while some will shoot ahead of the pack, if
5:50
Speaker 1: you peak too early, it doesn't leave much for the
5:52
Speaker 1: rest of your life. And overwhelmingly, the people who are
5:54
Speaker 1: most successful throughout the length of life, and life is long,
5:58
Speaker 1: they tend to hear and go there and try this
6:01
Speaker 1: and do that, and they might often look quite ordinary
6:04
Speaker 1: during their childhood and net lessons, and it's not until
6:06
Speaker 1: their twenties, thirties, or even their forties that they really
6:08
Speaker 1: shoot off. So, I mean, this really resonates because it's
6:11
Speaker 1: one of my favorite books as well. Ranged by that.
6:13
Speaker 2: Such a fantastic book, and what he points out is
6:16
Speaker 2: that the power of range of doing different things is manifold.
6:21
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, it's fun. You're not just
6:24
Speaker 2: stuck waking up every morning and playing baseball again like
6:27
Speaker 2: groundog day. Secondly, kids are getting injured at astounding rates
6:31
Speaker 2: now because they are over using the muscles. You know,
6:33
Speaker 2: Mother Nature never intended kids from age five to fifteen
6:38
Speaker 2: to be practicing their pitches every day. I mean, that's
6:41
Speaker 2: just too much for their bodies. There's something called the
6:44
Speaker 2: Tommy John injury that's just sort of exploding. And then
6:47
Speaker 2: also the thing that you get out of trying a
6:49
Speaker 2: lot of different things is what David talks about is
6:52
Speaker 2: the power of analogy, and that is that you were
6:56
Speaker 2: a baker and now you go to work for NASA,
6:58
Speaker 2: and NASA is filled with rocket engineers who say, oh,
7:02
Speaker 2: we don't have to worry about those O rings on
7:04
Speaker 2: the outside of the challenger. They'll be fine. You know,
7:06
Speaker 2: we've done our calculations. And the baker says, yeah, I
7:09
Speaker 2: thought so too, But I once had an oven that
7:11
Speaker 2: exploded because it had, you know, too much bread. And
7:15
Speaker 2: so if you have an outside voice and perspective, you
7:19
Speaker 2: can make an analogy that somebody who hasn't had another
7:22
Speaker 2: experience can't because they just know what's right in front
7:24
Speaker 2: of them. So I see that every day. I mean,
7:27
Speaker 2: I think there's so many cool analogies to be made
7:29
Speaker 2: just in life, Like, oh my god, that reminds me
7:31
Speaker 2: of the time. Anytime you do it, it reminds me
7:33
Speaker 2: of the time you're making something richer because you're bringing
7:37
Speaker 2: in this other experience. So he's just right. And my
7:41
Speaker 2: favorite thing I tell parents who are worried, oh my god,
7:43
Speaker 2: my kid is, you know, majoring polycy what's he gonna do?
7:46
Speaker 2: And they'll never get a job. And I'm like, what
7:49
Speaker 2: they really should be doing at college is just giving you,
7:51
Speaker 2: like you pay your money, and then for four years
7:54
Speaker 2: they go and work in twenty different companies and they
7:57
Speaker 2: realize like, oh my god, I thought accounting was born,
8:00
Speaker 2: but it's so fun, or oh, I really hate working
8:02
Speaker 2: with kids. If I am an education major, and by
8:05
Speaker 2: actually having real experiences, you get to see what you
8:09
Speaker 2: are good at, what satisfies you. And instead we give
8:14
Speaker 2: kids four years of college studying something out of books,
8:17
Speaker 2: and we say we're preparing them for the world, and
8:19
Speaker 2: actually we're doing the opposite. We're keeping them from the
8:21
Speaker 2: world during their prime years of eighteen to twenty one.
8:24
Speaker 2: And so his idea is that the more world you
8:28
Speaker 2: can have your kids experience, the better. And of course
8:31
Speaker 2: what's happening in childhood is less and less world as
8:34
Speaker 2: it shrinks to the backseat of the minivan and a
8:36
Speaker 2: five point harness with an iPad going off to travel
8:39
Speaker 2: soccer Brilliant.
8:41
Speaker 1: Kate Reid is a former Formula one engineer, an Australian
8:45
Speaker 1: woman who decided that she wanted to leave the Formula
8:48
Speaker 1: one world and the loud noises and the fastcas and
8:51
Speaker 1: everything associated with that, and she opened up a croissant
8:55
Speaker 1: bakery literally is known as as called Lon Bakries in
8:58
Speaker 1: Melbourne's It's considered the perfect crossiant, it's the world's best
9:01
Speaker 1: croissant And so she took that analogy that's and so fast.
9:07
Speaker 1: If you want speedy croissants, you'll get them. So I
9:10
Speaker 1: just love that idea. I'm also reflecting on the earlier
9:13
Speaker 1: part of what you said about five years ago. We
9:15
Speaker 1: lived in Brisbane, a couple of Queensland, and we would
9:19
Speaker 1: drive up and down the street as we went from
9:22
Speaker 1: A to B doing whatever we were doing, And I
9:24
Speaker 1: consistently pointed out to my wife that we were living
9:27
Speaker 1: in a suburb that was rich, teeming with young children,
9:31
Speaker 1: but we never saw them riding their bikes, We never
9:32
Speaker 1: saw them in the street. We only ever saw them
9:34
Speaker 1: at the park with parental supervision. Whereas like where we
9:38
Speaker 1: live now, we're in a coastal town and we see
9:41
Speaker 1: kids walking and riding scooters, and we see kids out
9:43
Speaker 1: all the time. It seems to me that, well, I'm
9:48
Speaker 1: not quite sure what drives the difference, whether there's an
9:50
Speaker 1: economic difference or whether there's a cultural difference. Do you
9:54
Speaker 1: have any insight into who is most likely to keep
9:57
Speaker 1: their kids close and who is most likely to give
10:00
Speaker 1: them that? What would it call it? Like benign neglect?
10:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, if people like the term benign neglect, it disturbs
10:08
Speaker 2: me a teeny bit, only in a sort of silly
10:10
Speaker 2: way in that it labels, even though it's funny, neglect
10:14
Speaker 2: And of course it's not neglect, it's trust, benign trust. Yes,
10:17
Speaker 2: that's what you're giving them. It's interesting to me because
10:20
Speaker 2: not knowing you know either of these places, I don't
10:23
Speaker 2: know what makes one so free range and the other
10:26
Speaker 2: one not. But what I'm trying to do with let Grow,
10:29
Speaker 2: which is the nonprofit that I run now, is trying
10:32
Speaker 2: to make it normal again for everything to be like
10:34
Speaker 2: your coastal town. Because once a few people start letting
10:38
Speaker 2: their kids, you know, walk to the store, ride their bikes,
10:40
Speaker 2: then other kids see them it's like, well can I walk?
10:42
Speaker 2: I mean, this happened with our own kid, and the
10:44
Speaker 2: mother of another kid who was way bigger, said well,
10:47
Speaker 2: my kid can walk to school if he can walk
10:49
Speaker 2: with yours. So it's like okay, well, and so that
10:52
Speaker 2: you know, suddenly it was twice as many kids we're
10:55
Speaker 2: walking to school. And once it becomes normal and you
10:59
Speaker 2: don't feel being judged for being a neglectful parent or
11:03
Speaker 2: heedless or too busy, then you know, then you're off
11:07
Speaker 2: to the races. And also not only are you not
11:10
Speaker 2: worrying about judging, but then the kids get used to
11:12
Speaker 2: being outside. We just did a study with the Harris Pole.
11:15
Speaker 2: They're you know, they're the the apex predators of the
11:18
Speaker 2: of the survey world, and they they surveyed kids age
11:23
Speaker 2: eight to twelve and one of the questions they asked,
11:27
Speaker 2: thanks to us, was if you have your choice of
11:31
Speaker 2: how to spend time with your friends. You can spend
11:32
Speaker 2: time with them just like you're talking about, you know,
11:35
Speaker 2: riding your bikes, hanging out outside, you know, unstructured. Or
11:38
Speaker 2: you could be in an organized activity like ballet or
11:41
Speaker 2: soccer or you know, art class. Or you can be
11:46
Speaker 2: online with your friends, either chatting, snapchat, whatever, or playing games,
11:51
Speaker 2: video games. Which would you prefer? And do you know
11:53
Speaker 2: the answer?
11:54
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the poll, but my guess my heart
11:57
Speaker 1: would be the kids would say, give me unstructioned time
11:59
Speaker 1: with is now on around, I can choose whatever I
12:01
Speaker 1: want to do over the other two.
12:03
Speaker 2: That's that is what happened. And second was the structured activities,
12:07
Speaker 2: and a distant third was online. And so what's interesting
12:12
Speaker 2: is that kids want what you're seeing in your neighborhood.
12:16
Speaker 2: And we think that they're desperate to be on their phones. Oh,
12:19
Speaker 2: they're so addicted to their phones. I can't get my
12:21
Speaker 2: kid off a screen. He does likes that screen time.
12:23
Speaker 2: Of course, you likes screen time if there's nothing else
12:25
Speaker 2: to do, If that's where you can go and meet
12:28
Speaker 2: with your friends and hang out and make jokes and
12:30
Speaker 2: go on adventures, happens to be in two d okay
12:34
Speaker 2: not as good as three D, but that's where I'll go.
12:36
Speaker 2: But if you could open the door again, kids would
12:39
Speaker 2: be outside. And so the real goal, of my real
12:42
Speaker 2: goal is to make it normal again to open the door.
12:45
Speaker 2: And one of the you know, I'm always trying to
12:47
Speaker 2: come up with catchy phrases, and one of them is
12:50
Speaker 2: take away the phone and open the door, because I
12:55
Speaker 2: keep hearing take away the phone and then come up
12:58
Speaker 2: with a fun activity for your child to do. So
13:00
Speaker 2: why not read a book together? How about drawing? Why
13:02
Speaker 2: don't you watch an educational documentary about the history of
13:04
Speaker 2: the slug And it means that parents are stuck with
13:08
Speaker 2: no escape right, they're just it used to be they
13:12
Speaker 2: could say go outside. And if you can't say go outside,
13:15
Speaker 2: well you sort of say go online. But if you
13:17
Speaker 2: can't say go online, it's like go crazy because you
13:20
Speaker 2: are going to have to spend from three in the
13:22
Speaker 2: afternoon until eight at night as the cruise director slash
13:26
Speaker 2: personal tutor for your child and that's not going to work.
13:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, events management is exhausting. This is The Happy Family's podcast.
13:40
Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the pod for a while,
13:42
Speaker 1: you know Leonor Scanazzi. She's the woman who became America's
13:44
Speaker 1: worst mum for letting her nine year old ride the
13:46
Speaker 1: New York subway alone, and then turned that controversial moment
13:50
Speaker 1: into a movement. Her recent TED talk, why you should
13:52
Speaker 1: spend Less time with your kids, delivered on the main
13:55
Speaker 1: stage at TED twenty twenty five in Vancouver, maybe her
13:59
Speaker 1: most important message yet. It's a nice segue into something
14:02
Speaker 1: else you said in your talk that really grabbed me.
14:03
Speaker 1: You said that the most teachable moments happen when parents
14:06
Speaker 1: aren't there, which is so counterintuitive. Right, We're in a
14:09
Speaker 1: culture that's subsisted with quality time and enrichment activities. Woke
14:12
Speaker 1: us through what actually happens in a child's brain. What
14:17
Speaker 1: happens to their confidence levels when they solve problems without
14:20
Speaker 1: our intervention in their environment.
14:22
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, one of the reasons that we're
14:24
Speaker 2: solving their problems two reasons. One is it's fun to
14:27
Speaker 2: solve problems. You know, you do feel smart, you feel competent.
14:32
Speaker 2: I've been doing this for so many years. And then
14:33
Speaker 2: recently a pastor's wife in Texas said to me, well
14:37
Speaker 2: it's obvious. I was like, what do you mean? She said, Well,
14:40
Speaker 2: independence leads to competence, and competence leads to confidence. I
14:44
Speaker 2: was like, wow, that's pretty great. How come I never
14:47
Speaker 2: thought of that? But she's right, it's not like it's
14:49
Speaker 2: not even that independence directly leads to confidence. It leads
14:53
Speaker 2: to you figuring things out. The best example I have
14:57
Speaker 2: of this is that the Wall Street Journal ran an
14:59
Speaker 2: article on how to raise a free range kid in
15:01
Speaker 2: you know, Today's Society. Why didn't they talk to me?
15:04
Speaker 2: I wrote the book, But anyways, they didn't. And they
15:06
Speaker 2: interviewed this mom who said, as a kid, she just
15:09
Speaker 2: loved going to the creek. She would spend hours there,
15:12
Speaker 2: you know, looking at the shells and I don't know,
15:15
Speaker 2: tickling the fish. Whatever she did, she loved it. And
15:18
Speaker 2: she wanted to give her kids the same her child
15:20
Speaker 2: the same experience. And she said, and thank god she could,
15:23
Speaker 2: because she could give her child a phone, and then
15:27
Speaker 2: the kid was going to this much vaunted creek. One day,
15:30
Speaker 2: kid was eight and her bike chain fell off, and
15:34
Speaker 2: the mom was so grateful because thanks to the phone,
15:37
Speaker 2: the kid could call the dad, and the dad drove
15:39
Speaker 2: over and fixed the chain, and then she could go
15:42
Speaker 2: to the creek. And she was happy. The mom said,
15:44
Speaker 2: and I was so relieved because this way my kid
15:46
Speaker 2: could have the same experience as me. And I'm like,
15:48
Speaker 2: that is the antithical, completely opposite experience of what you had,
15:54
Speaker 2: because the kid dialed the concierge who came and you know,
15:59
Speaker 2: provided quick and helpful service, and she didn't. Not only
16:03
Speaker 2: did she not figure out how to put the chain
16:05
Speaker 2: on her bike, and truth be told, I've no idea
16:06
Speaker 2: how to fix the chain on the bike. But not
16:09
Speaker 2: only did the kid not figure it out, but the
16:11
Speaker 2: parents didn't see that the kid could figure it out.
16:15
Speaker 1: Right, And see if it means that the child reaches
16:17
Speaker 1: out to another adult who's nearby and says, I'm stuck off,
16:19
Speaker 1: fiddled with this, I don't know what to do. Can
16:21
Speaker 1: I get some help? The ability to reach out and
16:23
Speaker 1: trust another adult in the in that in that spot
16:27
Speaker 1: is better than ringing dad, Right, you learn.
16:31
Speaker 2: Better than ringing dad? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So either
16:35
Speaker 2: that or you don't fix the chain and you hide
16:37
Speaker 2: the bike in a bush and you walk home, or
16:40
Speaker 2: you a hitchhike you know, or whatever, or you limp
16:43
Speaker 2: home with the with the broken bike. But anything that
16:46
Speaker 2: solves a problem makes you feel proud and having somebody
16:50
Speaker 2: else solve the problem, makes you feel fine but needy.
16:54
Speaker 2: You know, you're not the person who is rising to
16:57
Speaker 2: the occasion, and we keep taking away the occasions from
17:00
Speaker 2: our kids. So you ask, what does a kid get
17:01
Speaker 2: with the teachable moment. A teachable moment then would have
17:04
Speaker 2: been talking to the stranger, hiding the bike, coming home
17:07
Speaker 2: with the broken thing, fixing it, trying to get into
17:10
Speaker 2: a unic cycle, anything other than you now dead, my
17:15
Speaker 2: bike chain's broken.
17:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. In my upcoming book about Boys, I quote a
17:20
Speaker 1: guy called Brett McKay. He runs a website and podcast
17:23
Speaker 1: called the Art of Manliness, and he's got this on him. Yeah, yeah, great.
17:27
Speaker 1: So he's got this incredible article where he talks about
17:30
Speaker 1: all of these like Steve McQueen and Sean Connery and
17:33
Speaker 1: all these icons of the movie industry from decades gone by,
17:37
Speaker 1: and he talks about their lives before they turned eighteen
17:39
Speaker 1: or nineteen or twenty, and these guys they just had
17:42
Speaker 1: the most rich and varied and extraordinary lives. And then
17:45
Speaker 1: he asks the question, are we raising the least interesting generation?
17:49
Speaker 1: As I listened to you share the story about the
17:51
Speaker 1: bike chain falling off, I'm thinking when your child comes home,
17:54
Speaker 1: even if they've had to walk. I'll do it in
17:57
Speaker 1: miles because it makes more sense for an American. Let's
17:59
Speaker 1: say five miles high.
18:00
Speaker 2: Thank you. We have no idea what a kilimeter?
18:01
Speaker 1: Now, it's based down. It's so easy anyway, I digress
18:05
Speaker 1: an animal. But you end up getting home and you've
18:09
Speaker 1: got this incredible story to tell because of all the
18:12
Speaker 1: things that happened, and your life becomes more interesting because
18:14
Speaker 1: you're doing hard things and finding yourself in tough spots,
18:17
Speaker 1: and I just I love it anyway. The Ted Talk
18:20
Speaker 1: once again is called why you should spend less time
18:24
Speaker 1: with your kids. It's worth listening to linked in the
18:27
Speaker 1: show notes our times all but up. But Leonora, I'd
18:29
Speaker 1: love to do a quick lightning round with you, because
18:31
Speaker 1: these are just always fun. You're so quirky, you're so fun,
18:35
Speaker 1: You're so quick.
18:35
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see, yeah, yeah, here we go.
18:39
Speaker 1: We'll find out and quick answers, got instinct, no need
18:42
Speaker 1: to explain. I recognize that some of these questions do
18:44
Speaker 1: have some context. So if you've got to go into
18:47
Speaker 1: some context, ten seconds, just really really tight age that
18:50
Speaker 1: a child should be allowed to walk to school alone.
18:53
Speaker 2: I'll go with my age five, I was five mark
18:56
Speaker 2: to kindergarten.
18:57
Speaker 1: I'm sure that a lot of parents just grab their heart.
19:00
Speaker 2: When well, I was gonna listen to her ted talk,
19:02
Speaker 2: but she's a nut. You know, around the world, it's
19:04
Speaker 2: generally seven.
19:06
Speaker 1: Sure, okay, worst phrase in modern parenting.
19:09
Speaker 2: Worst phrase better safe than sorry, as if there's one,
19:13
Speaker 2: you know, either you're safe or you're dead.
19:16
Speaker 1: Your nine year old's subway ride. Would you do it again?
19:20
Speaker 2: Yes?
19:21
Speaker 1: I figured you'd say that. This one is kind of
19:24
Speaker 1: perplexing for me. Playgrounds safer now or when you were
19:27
Speaker 1: a kid, And is that what we want?
19:30
Speaker 2: I think they're physically safer now, but less safe, and
19:33
Speaker 2: that they're so boring that nobody goes to them.
19:36
Speaker 1: I read some really interesting Canadian research last year, and
19:39
Speaker 1: oh maybe it was the start of this year.
19:40
Speaker 2: I made a really big deal I can tell you
19:41
Speaker 2: which by Marianna Brussoni.
19:43
Speaker 1: The kids play, yeah, and the likelihood of children hurting
19:47
Speaker 1: themselves in these boring playgrounds is just as high. Like
19:51
Speaker 1: they trip over their feet, they trip over the rubber
19:53
Speaker 1: the match like.
19:54
Speaker 2: Berlin started making their playgrounds deliberately more chaotic and slightlyquote
20:00
Speaker 2: unquot dangerous or risky because Berlin also pays its insurance,
20:04
Speaker 2: its own insurance for the entire city, and kids were
20:07
Speaker 2: growing up paying so little attention to their whereabouts that
20:11
Speaker 2: they were tripping and falling and hurting themselves. So it's like, well,
20:14
Speaker 2: why don't we raise kids who are a little more
20:16
Speaker 2: aware by starting out on the playground without it just
20:19
Speaker 2: being you know, slides that are like no higher than
20:22
Speaker 2: a German shepherd. I mean they're really boring.
20:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, full stychotomy here, but let's go with it. Anyway,
20:27
Speaker 1: screen time limits or outdoor time requirements? Which one would
20:31
Speaker 1: you say that is more?
20:32
Speaker 2: Oh, I think that outdoor time requirements is kind of
20:35
Speaker 2: great because I haven't thought of that as a requirement ever.
20:38
Speaker 2: But as somebody who grew up in Chicago, which is
20:40
Speaker 2: the coldest place on the planet, don't trust any in Siberia.
20:43
Speaker 2: It actually is Chicago, I couldn't have stood it for like,
20:46
Speaker 2: you know, basically October till May. So maybe that the
20:51
Speaker 2: requirement is lock a parent in a room for a
20:54
Speaker 2: couple hours. Maybe that's the requirement so that the kids
20:57
Speaker 2: make dinner or build a fork.
21:00
Speaker 1: I know some parents would say please look me in
21:01
Speaker 1: the room. The next one I'd love for you to
21:04
Speaker 1: share the stat that you shared in the Ted talk.
21:06
Speaker 1: The lightning around question is strange danger, overblown fear or legitimate.
21:11
Speaker 2: Concern so overblown that I will give you the statistic,
21:15
Speaker 2: which is that, if for some reason you wanted your
21:17
Speaker 2: child to be kidnapped by a stranger in a law
21:20
Speaker 2: and order type scenario, how long would you have to
21:23
Speaker 2: keep them outside without you there completely unattended for this
21:26
Speaker 2: to be statistically likely to happen. And the answer is,
21:31
Speaker 2: as you will know, seven hundred and fifty thousand years.
21:36
Speaker 1: And then you say, and nobody would want to kidnap
21:39
Speaker 1: them after that long, right?
21:41
Speaker 2: I think I say, after the firste hundred thousand, they're
21:43
Speaker 2: not even kids anymore, all right? But the same Harris Paul,
21:47
Speaker 2: I just have to say, ask parents, what would likely
21:50
Speaker 2: happen if two ten year olds went to the park,
21:53
Speaker 2: and fifty percent replied they'd be likely to be kidnapped?
21:56
Speaker 2: So we are just just completely out of our minds
22:00
Speaker 2: when it comes to the odds of stranger danger.
22:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's astonishing. Last lightning round question, if you could
22:06
Speaker 1: only give parents one permission slip, what would the permission
22:10
Speaker 1: slip say?
22:11
Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting. Here's one that I actually think about
22:14
Speaker 2: a lot. If something terrible happens to your kids, I
22:17
Speaker 2: won't blame you. I like it. I like it.
22:19
Speaker 1: I've been saying for the last year or so your
22:21
Speaker 1: children should do at least one thing every week that
22:23
Speaker 1: could land them in hospital if it goes wrong. People
22:25
Speaker 1: get quite over that's a.
22:26
Speaker 2: Guy thing, think that way.
22:28
Speaker 1: And we've had a couple of kids end up in
22:30
Speaker 1: hospital this year, and yet they love the activities that
22:32
Speaker 1: they were doing, and they can't wait to get back
22:34
Speaker 1: and do those activities again. And there's incredible stories and
22:39
Speaker 1: experiences because they're doing things that help them to find
22:42
Speaker 1: those limits. I love the Ted Talk. I love the
22:45
Speaker 1: message that you continually promote around the world. Or the
22:48
Speaker 1: title of the Ted Talk is why you should spend
22:50
Speaker 1: less time with your kids. No, thanks for being on
22:52
Speaker 1: the podcast again.
22:53
Speaker 2: Thank you Justin and hi down there.
22:55
Speaker 1: The Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin Rolan from
22:57
Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Mim Hammon's provides additional research and other support,
23:00
Speaker 1: and if you'd like more info about anything Eleanor has
23:03
Speaker 1: to say, you can check out her links in the
23:06
Speaker 1: show notes, including to her best selling book, Her Ted
23:09
Speaker 1: Talk and for more resources. I'm making your family happy,
23:11
Speaker 1: visit happy families dot com dot au