Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Mothering Through Chronic Illness with April Hovelson | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 2 Episode 10

Transcript

Mothering Through Chronic Illness with April Hovelson | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 2 Episode 10 · Motherhood Uncut

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Motherhood Uncut.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: We are so glad you're here.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, Deb Ruben and I talk about all things motherhood related, the things that people don't usually want to bring to the table.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: The messy, the hilarious, the ugly, the challenging, the amazing, the beautiful, the really effed up, all that stuff.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: We've got it here for you.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: We bring to you our own personal experiences, moms, as well as some research and data that might help you along the way.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Bring your friends.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: We've got you.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Come mother with us.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hey listeners, it's Kate.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I am on my own again today.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Dev will be back with us next week.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I have the incredible honor of talking today with April Hovelson, who is the founder of AHA Moment Fitness.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's a previous professional dancer and teacher.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's a fitness trainer.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: She's an entrepreneur.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: She's a mom of three.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And at age 20, April was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking today about her journey in mothering with chronic illness, how she has learned to accept what is and to pause and pivot and really embrace life, even with its twists and turns.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're going to find this hugely moving and inspiring.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly did.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that if you are a mom who is struggling through some sort of chronic physical or mental illness or know someone who is, that you'll pass this along.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really helpful for us to learn from others about how they manage those stressors that really are a part of everyday life.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And April certainly gives us a lot to think about.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Kate, I have to tell you about this new Boulder Jewelry Company that not only has amazing jewelry, but it has an amazing message.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love jewelry.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: What's it called?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Leela Inspired, and it's based here in Boulder, and it creates natural stone bracelets and necklaces.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, you and I both love bracelets, love jewelry, and you know what we both do?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: We love wearing different bracelets in different colors.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know when you stack like gold and silver and beads?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love that look.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love it too.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me tell you, I just spent a few minutes on their website and I looked at all the different ways to stack the bracelets, and oh my gosh, the combinations are endless.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: They have jewelry that you can wear to yoga or just grabbing coffee, you can dress it up or down.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I actually loved it all.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have got to check it out.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Leelainspired.com.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's L-E-E-L-A Inspired.com.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Check our show notes for a discount.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, it's Kate.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, I am in a stage in my life where I'm doing a lot of reflecting and thinking back about the things that have really been the most meaningful for me throughout my 50 years of being on this planet.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And without a doubt, without a doubt, the things that feel the most inspiring are the things that have been hard, the things where I have wondered, can I do that thing?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Where I've had big dreams and it's like this verge of I'm almost there, but if I just take that step, I'm gonna do it and get there and feel the impacts.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when I have you guys, my life has just flowed.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I am really excited to introduce to you Take the Leap, which is a year-long program that I'm doing with my dear friend Ashley Wick.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is an opportunity for you to take that leap, to make that change, to meet that goal that you have been wanting to do for a long time.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Listeners who apply for this program by March 15th get a special rate.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I invite you to check out the show notes for all the information about how to apply.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is for you if you know that there is something in your life that you really want and need to accomplish.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Ashley and I are going to help get you there with the community of other women who are really inspired for growth as well.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So come on over, learn about that program, apply now.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone, this is Deb.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: As you may know, I have a huge passion for self-discovery and growth, and I love nothing more than helping others evolve into their own unique ways.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: As mothers, we have a deep intuition that can sometimes feel muddled with time.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: In the Mother Daughter Journey workshops for moms, I focus on honoring and helping participants to come back to that intuition while also equipping you with some powerful tools to help strengthen that beautiful mother-daughter bond.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just launched my April and May group, so check them out on my website, motherdaughterjourney.co.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to work with you.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, April.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Motherhood Uncut Podcast.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I am so glad you're here.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: You and I have had the privilege of just a little bit getting to know each other in this mastermind that we're in.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you came and spoke on my Instagram platform.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: You are a mom of three young boys, a um previous professional dancer, I think.
• 5:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: A personal trainer, an Instagram phenomenon in your personal training, an entrepreneur, many other things, I'm sure.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but can you tell us just personally a little bit more about you, where you live, what your family system looks like, maybe where you grew up, any background to get us started today, and then we'll dive in a little more.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in a teeny tiny town in Wisconsin, um, more known for farm animals than people.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I started a dance studio there when I was 15.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: You started a dance studio, like you started your own dance studio at 15.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I didn't want to work at Subway or Culver's and those choice.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Door number three.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: So um we ended up being one of the best studios in the Midwest.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: We won all kinds of competitions.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was not a competitive kid, but I wanted everyone to see what they were actually doing and that their work was really valid.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because we were just down, they're like, well, you know, we should just go to Madison.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, but what we're doing here is just as good, if not better.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so we won all kinds of awards and we did um all kinds of great things.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and my husband, my now husband, was doing a Shakespeare theater in town there, and he signed up for tap classes from me, and we got together.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know we were long distance for like five years, and then um I moved here when he was in grad school at NYU.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: We moved to New York City.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: I moved to New York City with a six-pound baby.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then yeah, we moved to the Lower East Side, and I just figured out how to be a small fish in a big pond, and you know, nobody cares about what you look like anymore in the morning.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody's waving at you on the street.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I'm like so I like I'm like, okay, I have a gazillion questions already.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want to like and I know we're now you're still in New York City.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right now you don't have one six-pound baby, but you have three boys.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Three boys, yes.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now I need a little clarification.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like to start a dance studio when you're 15?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: What does that actually look like?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I grew up, um, I guess always um in accelerated programs, dance-wise.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so we went to the small town, there was like one dance studio there, and I remember going to dance there, and she could not fathom what I was capable of doing.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so she put me down.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, Well, you think you're good, you know.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: She just and I wasn't put your spirit down, she was like putting off.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she's like, You just think you're so good because you moved here, and I was like, you know, that's not that's not what I'm about.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not trying to make myself better than what you're capable of.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just just want to dance.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so she um had me dance with the high school girls, and I was sixth grade, I think.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was in sixth grade.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that is never a good situation.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, they were so mean to me, and I was like, you know what?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do this.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't filling my cup anymore.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And dance is what has lit me up since I was a little kid.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: So um I started traveling all over and taking classes from like my favorite dancers that I looked up to everywhere in New York and Chicago, and then like that's where I got my education from.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then I when I was 15, I was like, you know what?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do, I want to do a dance studio.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do that.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let's teach all the kids and just make everybody feel included.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't level-wise, I didn't care, just come dance.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I wanted to do.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you were like following that passion at such a young age.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's so amazing.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: With two teenage daughters, I'm like, oh, that that deep knowing of yourself and that commitment and that grit is really amazing.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I just didn't have time for other people's drama.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't have time.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So so then your husband, you're you're you're not yet, but then man who would become your husband was was performing in Shakespeare and came to take tap dance lessons from you.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is that okay?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing in and all of itself.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So is he also a dancer?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is he a performer still?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: Was that his career?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's an actor, and then he also does um life coaching for teens right now, which is pretty amazing because not everybody knows the direction they should go in life and have all the tools because I don't know what is going wrong with the schooling system where they don't know life skills.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm right there.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: How to balance a checkbook or like accounting in any way?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so he kind of helps build better humans.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, amazing.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so between age 15 and moving to New York City with a six-pound baby, was there what was your dancing life like and your life like in that window before you moved to New York City?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, here's I uh bought a house with my brother when I was 18.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had earned enough that and stashed it all away.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I bought a house with him and we were not really complete opposites.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it was an not a match made in heaven, the two of us together, but we both really wanted to make our lives better.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we bought the house together.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was doing the dance studio in the evenings, and then I did nannying for tons of families.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Random, like all of the actors and actresses in the town, because they were in the Shakespeare company.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I did a lot of nannying for them, which was great.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was also diagnosed with um MS when I was 20.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a huge piece.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, sorry, piece of the puzzle of like managing a business, managing um a household, managing life, and then figuring out this new health hurdle that's all about.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And a health hurdle that obviously is all about your body, and your body was all about dancing back then.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: What can you talk us through that a little bit?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: What that was like for you.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was the week after I turned 20.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, suddenly I my feet were tingling like they were um going numb.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what is going on?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a tan, I was teaching a dance class.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I went through it and I was like, this is so weird.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I took off my shoes after the end of the class and I was like rubbing them on the carpet, like, come on, come on, blood, get back in there.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it didn't.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, okay.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so eventually throughout the months, the they went completely numb.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then the numbness like creeped up my leg, and I was tripping on myself.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was just a mess.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, This we have to, we have to figure this out.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go get tested.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And they never, oh the testing part is so chaotic because nobody ever wants to say what it like.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: The elephant in the room, they want to tell you about, oh, it could, it could possibly, it's just this, it's just this.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And there was one, I remember one doctor that said, Well, maybe, maybe it's MS.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, no, it's not, it can't possibly be that.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: She does not want that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I had no idea what it was.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what is MS?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, all I know is I don't want that.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever just happened, I don't want that.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then eventually I got diagnosed by a spinal tap, which was horrible, but it gave me the definitive marker that I they were looking for.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then they gave me pamphlets which had people in wheelchairs all over them.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, crushed.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: I remember crying and like, oh, this is a death sentence to a dancer, and going home to my boyfriend at the time, and he had was not equipped to help, so he just left.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, so this is my life now, alone and wheelchair bound.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, This this can't be it, this can't be it.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I got put on there were three, only three medications at the time.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And one of them was Avinex is the one that I took, was a needle that was this big that I had to inject into my own leg once a week that put me into the most intense flu that I've ever had.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that was every weekend.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: I would have this crazy flu when I wasn't teaching dance, and then I'd go back and do it all over again.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there was one day that because I was not a nurse, I was like, I can't believe that I have to do this myself.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: I injected it into a vein and all of the medication, you know, hit me all at once.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it was so intense, I got so sick, and I was like, I'm not doing it anymore.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing this medication, I'm gonna do it all naturally.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I did, and it I would, I mean, not having to do the flu every week was so much better.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: But then I also had a knew how to learn how to manage it with nutrition and just not doing all the drugs.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: That was so much better.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many important pieces in the story, and I think I want to sort of start with the most obvious, at least to me, because I'm in the field of you know, human development and mental well-being is here's this 20-year-old kid, you're a kid at 20, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Here's this 20-year-old kid who's developed her whole sense of self around being a dancer.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked, you already said it in so many beautiful ways.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was like your passion.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was like you were traveling around dancing with your favorite teachers.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: It made you happy.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You created this whole dance school that was getting all this publicity during adolescence, of which 20 is late adolescence, is a time where we're really figuring out who we are in the world.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I imagine that it's like the rug gets pulled out from underneath you.
• 16:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hearing you say, though, that you still were teaching.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you didn't give up the studio.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can't you have grit, girl.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: You really, I mean, I clearly you have still going on, but at that point, whatever it was that enabled you as a young kid to follow your passion and take up dance and create the studio really stayed consistent, didn't it?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Even when you got that diagnosis.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I definitely found a way to teach from sitting.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I had really good kids who like uh assistance, but we I only hired my students.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: So they knew me and they knew exactly how to portray what I wanted.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: I would always paint the picture.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, everybody close your eyes and just mentally see this with me.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so then it became an exercise in how to communicate without my body, which is why I think so many older dancers can still like produce the greatest works ever because it doesn't take a well body to do everything.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be able to do it all.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's so profound.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like what you're saying is you went from sort of the pharmaceutical medical model of treating MS to the more natural lifestyle model.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely want to hear more about that.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I think that's really valuable.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big advocate in my work for kind of personal responsibility and accountability and self-advocacy.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we can't not take into account all the things outside of us that impact us, but but that to me, you turning your lifestyle into sort of, I'm gonna be metaphoric here, but a dance of health, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: To really like how what does that dance look like for you about staying healthy and well given the choices you're making?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so powerful and profound.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I want to talk to about before we get there, though, is that you have three kids.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I know a question we get on this podcast often is all of these things that we talk about on a podcast about quote unquote mothering with a help, you know, for a quote for mainstream normal bodies and brains, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is hard enough.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you're talking about needing to incorporate what it looks like to take care of one, let alone three little people, while you're also having to take care of your body so deeply.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering if you could share with us a bit about what that has been like for you as you had three kids, as you're negotiating your own body's capacities and taking care of yourself, which is non-negotiable when you've got something like MS.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where you're gonna go with that question, but I'm dying to know wherever it is that you go.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: What comes up with for you or what came up for you during all of that?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so I basically went into a remission um after my first.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I had basically 10 years, a little bit less, eight years of remission.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then after my third, the pandemic was happening, and that's when I went into a huge relapse, huge.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had to quit breastfeeding so that I could go on the newest medication that they were like, this is going to help you stop getting lesions because I had an MRI and I had 30 lesions on my brain and 25 on my spine, and it was like whoa.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: I thought everything was okay.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I was having a leg that wouldn't function, it was dragging, I couldn't pick it up, and I had fatigue, like overwhelming fatigue, and sensations in my hands and tripping over words, brain fog, it was all of that sort of thing.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I also had three kids home and a baby, right?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then we had to do Zoom kindergarten.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh Lord, and it was all encompassing.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Zoom kindergarten almost like killed me.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: There was so much with that, and I had to be so strong for them just to get through the day.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so it wasn't like I could really pay attention to what was going on with me, and I also didn't want them to feel like they were in charge of my symptoms because stress is a huge thing, and and I was beyond stressed, but it wasn't because of them, it was because of the situation.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, we can't take this out on them.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a distinction, it's a really important distinction.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I we talk about this in in the podcast all the time, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: That there is a difference between understanding and connecting dots and putting blame on, right?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So stress being in a obviously one of the biggest, you know, kind of would you call it a cause, a risk factor, a proponent of symptoms for you.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and make it go.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, so not only is it a pandemic, but you do have three children, right?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and that in in and of itself, being a mom of one child, let alone three, is stressful.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you said though, about not wanting them to feel responsible for your symptoms, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's such that is so profoundly important.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so the even the way I talk to them about it, they're like, I'll be when we're walking.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Around and I'm like, you just have to slow down a little bit.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: My leg is not keeping up with the rest of me.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And they you know I said, and they'll say, like, well, what's wrong with it?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, well, it's like you the batteries in your toys.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can't just change the batteries and everything goes back to normal.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's a messaging, like something's the wires aren't connecting.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: So even though my brain wants me to walk really fast, my leg the messaging is not happening.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, I want to, I want to walk fast, but we're gonna walk fast.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's so great.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, in so talk to us a little bit.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think this question might be a little bit obvious, but talk to us a little bit about how your journey after you came out of remission.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Did you start dancing again during remission?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: When you were in remission, did you get all of your capabilities back and have all your energy back?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a second pulling of the rug out for you, isn't it?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: But it was also um the pandemic was because dance kind of shut down.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I was kind of in a well, I can't do that anyway, right now.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I was already reflecting on what I wanted my next wave or my next chapter to be because I didn't know if I wanted to continue dancing.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then once a relapse hit, I was like, man, I can't put my body through that right now.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, expect my legs to work the way that uh they were.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I did the personal training adventure, which has been really great, especially with this relapse, because I can take things at my own time, at my own tempo, and just really it has really taught me to have grace with what I can and can't do and roll with the punches because not every day is perfect, but when it is good, I know that I can really push myself on those days.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And when it's not good, I gotta back off and say it's okay.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of what I hear you talking about, April, is your willingness to meet yourself where you are, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really hard to do when where we are is so dang uncomfortable or frustrating.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I keep hearing that theme for you that that you just sort of paused and pivoted based on what was available to you.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: What were some of the hardest parts about being a mom for you with the MS?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And how did you move through those challenges in a way that led you towards feeling more successful or connected, maybe even more successful, just connected to yourself and your kids and your husband?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: I also realized heavily during that time because it I was with them all the time, and then you're on.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: There isn't a break, and you can't be tired.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: You you just have to, you know, pull through it and keep pushing and keep pushing.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, in order to be successful in the day, they knew because I told them, I was like, working out for me is gonna make me nicer for you.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to take this time and I don't care if you go on your iPad, I don't care what you do, but this hour is for me to put in something hard that I need to do for myself.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: This is my hour, it's my non-negotiable.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: You go do you do, do whatever you do.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: This is gonna be for my sanity and to make me nicer for you.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: And they would know, they would know when the day would happen that we didn't get a workout in because they're like, you know, they're like, everybody do what you can to make sure mom gets her workout in.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, yes, yes, we'll let you do that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then it was always if I needed a break, they were really they could read my signals really well.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they still do.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: They still know when I like am on the edge and I'm louder than I need to be, or yelling, because we all yell, but they know that it's because I'm exhausted or like sensory overload, because I'm very sensitive, like my skin gets very sensitive, and my hearing, like the headaches happen, and then they're like they know to regulate without me having to say, mommy has this going on.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: I just painted a very clear picture when before it gets escalated that these are things that happened, and this is why, and it's not you and it's not anybody's fault, but when it happens, I need to regulate.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's all work together.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's the beauty of boundaries being in service of the whole community, right?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you're it's like you're this little organism, your family's this little organism, and you work, you know how to work together so that everybody gets what they want and need.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so moved by your kind of the way you're describing several things.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: One, tuning into your body.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've needed to, right?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: But tuning into your, and you were I'm imagining as a dancer, you were tuned into your body already, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: You lived in your body.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Your body was your expression of your craft, right?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: So tuning into your body, naming it at the early signs, like, ooh, I'm starting to feel that little prickle of that thing that is fatigue or pain or whatever it is, your irritation.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then your ability and willingness to talk to them about it, so that as a unit, you can all come up with a plan that helps you all get what you need.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that it's not you do this for me, but I'm gonna take care of myself in service of you.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a way of talking to our kids when we're struggling with anything that is so useful.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like your boys really caught into that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: They they got hooked into that way of communicating with you pretty quickly.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's worked for them.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they they're also really good about asking questions and in a way that will help them feel comfortable with it because I don't want to scare them and I don't want them to think that what we're doing is abnormal or scary.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: So just making it a part of conversation that they feel like, okay, so this is happening now.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I love the question that I ask folks all the time.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: What if this wasn't a problem?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I hear that you've done really along these, I'm sure I'm a big believer of if we're willing to, we learn from our experiences and we grow in magical ways that we may never have.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the life you imagined you were gonna have at 15 is different than the life you have now because of things that were outside of your control.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to hear from you a bit about what your life looks now.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: You've got MS that, you know, the second, what's it a secondary level?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Secondary progressive.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Secondary progressive, right?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no in and out.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know that now.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that that you've had to work through your own grief and feelings about that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you know that this is the stage, and you've got these three boys who are young.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Tell our tell our listeners how old again they are, just so we can all get a picture.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Three, seven, and eleven.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: So these little boys who live in an apartment in New York City, right?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you've once again created this life that works for you.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious if you could tell us about both your lifestyle choices that keep you healthy, because we talked about how you were, you've really developed those kind of more natural ways of staying healthy in your body along with the medicine when you need it, I'm sure.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've created this whole other career for yourself that's different than the professional dancer.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: But at least when I watch you do your thing, you look to me like you're having a lot of joy doing it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: So can you fill us in on what those things look like?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm an online personal trainer or fitness coach and nutrition coach.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that, you know, came about when I was somewhat having some difficulties, but not always having difficulties.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: But now that I'm consistently having a leg that's weakening and not working as well, um, I find it even more important to put my beliefs out there and that it doesn't have to be perfect to start and it doesn't have to be perfect in order to get healthy, get fit, however, that looks for you.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you just have to be willing to do it and also meet it where it is.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I love weight training, and I think that has been super helpful in being able to navigate my symptoms and being able to navigate just losing um like the strength and the ability.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: So keeping my body strong, even days on in which it's hard, is super important.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then also because we were always taught as kids or as a young adults that like cardio is everything, and that is something I can't do anymore.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, totally, and so learning ways to work out at home is has been really important, and I think it's very important for especially moms to do for the mental piece and then also to do something for yourself that is to also your kids watch you, they are looking at you all the time, and so when they see you prioritizing your health, they know that that's important for them later in life.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, all of those pieces I think are really important in raising great humans, but also navigating yourself and keeping yourself in really great health, even though you might not be healthy, like 100%, you know, but doing what you can is important.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I talk about often is that one of the kind of pillars of mental health and mental well-being is both and thinking and being able to feel many different things at one time, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I hear you saying, that you can honor and acknowledge your body for what it's doing and ways that it is quote unquote not working for you and uncomfortable, and at the same time acknowledge the things that are working and the things that do feel good.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a good representation of what I think you're saying to me right now?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think the conversation about having like when you're doing something hard and pushing through those hard moments in a workout and saying, like, I can I always say this to my clients, I can do hard things.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've done hard things before, and I can do hard things, like pushing yourself to that conversation and not just standing up when you're like, oh, that burned.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, okay.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: But like pushing through and pushing through that mental barrier because that just, you know, your whole life that translates into so many different areas.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: April, where do you think you learned this grit and ability to just adapt?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is literally you described the first thing you described doing this was you were growing up in this small town and there was no dance studio.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you adapted by creating one yourself.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this has been a part of your temperament since you were young.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you learn that from?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, hmm, that's a really great question.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: My dad would say, I don't know where she comes from, and I want to be just like her when I grow up.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think I would have I can understand why he's saying that.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom, she owned many businesses and she was an artist um and just had a lot of visions.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And she grew up in a very her mom passed away when she was young, like by 11.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: So she's had to scrap through life just as much.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'd probably get it from her and just never settling.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's so, it's so important for those of us that want to make our lives what we want to make them, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: For those of us who aren't willing to sit back and have life happen to us, but who are willing to wanting to step in the ring and create our lives, there, there we need you need that kind of grit and willingness to persevere and stay steady and pause and pivot.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any thoughts for anyone who might be listening right now, who might be feeling stuck?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they have a recent diagnosis of some sort where they feel like their life is just paused, right?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: The life as they know it has changed.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: They have obligations, things they want to do, or maybe it's someone who's had a diagnosis for a long time and is sort of feeling a little lost in the waves of life.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: What thoughts, wisdom, advice would you give those people?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my biggest advice would be to not sit in it or sit like grieve it, but don't sit in it too long because it swallows you up.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, have set yourself a time to grieve, whether it be a day or a week, and then make a plan from there.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think you should let everything stop, but acknowledge it and then make a plan because nothing happens from sitting and just feeling sad or knowing.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: You don't actually know, you don't know until you're, you know, beyond, but just not sitting in it.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's my big advice.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Make a plan and start moving.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can't.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I again, as I said, I'm a big advocate for saying, you know, we you get to decide how you want to feel in your life.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: We can't feel good until we're willing to not feel good, right?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we can't, you can't skip over the grieving part, you can't skip over the sadness.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: But what I hear you saying is, okay, once you've allowed that, ask yourself that question.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do I want to feel?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want my life to look like?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what choices can I make that help me get there?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: You are a beautiful example of what that looks like.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did you what kind of support did you have along the way, by the way?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm imagining you had friends, family support people to yes.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my parents were very supportive when I was young and or before marriage.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's my husband who's super supportive, and he really knows how to recognize when like I need to just sit in the room and you just get to dad for six hours today.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's really great at reading the symptoms and helping me out.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: And his his parents are also really, really great.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: They're in the medical field, so they're also like when I'm like, I have no idea what this means.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: I always call them and they're like, okay, so this is the next step.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: We need others so deeply, don't we?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we really do need others in our lives.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, any last minute thoughts that or information to share with us before I have you tell us where we can find more of you?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else in your brain?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, where I'm at now for MS and secondary progressive, I'm I've been taking avenue or sorry, Acrobus.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And now that I have the next level of MS, there isn't a lot of drugs out there.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm also moving into more natural ways of healing myself and exploring that avenue because again, I'm not going to sit down and just accept the diagnosis and wallow in the self-pity.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm moving and just exploring new ways to heal my body and try and keep myself as active and as strong as I can to do the online business that I've been doing for the last couple of years.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us, tell our listeners about where they can find you for that.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I um, you and I have talked on another platform about the role that movement plays in our mental health and well-being.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, as someone who works with moms and really supporting maternal mental health and well-being, we to we you and I just dabbled in this a little bit, but because our health and well-being so directly impacts our children's health and well-being, that we want to be able to have a sense of kind of tuning, tending to ourselves so that we get what we need to be healthy.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about your online um personal training and where people can find you.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do a lot on Instagram, and that's at aha moment fitness, a h-h-a moment fitness.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you can also find me on my webpage, www.aha momentfitness.com.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I do I teach people to work out at home and in every way.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: So with limited equipment, with weights, with resistance bands.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to make it as accessible and fun as possible.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't do like crazy, crazy workouts that intimidate.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: I want to educate and also empower people to just work out where they're at.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to know that I just had my um my 50th birthday and my PCP appointment where we went through all the things I need to be doing now.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you literally on my list of people to call because I need to do resistance training and weights.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I have never done it.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the things you offer so beautifully is for those of us who sort of are new to this, and I don't know, you look like you were having so much fun on your Instagram feed.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I want to work out with her.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I will be calling you, April.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you offer.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your time with us today.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: I so, so, so appreciate it.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: You've got three boys in that other room like waiting for you to be done.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: So at the door going snacks.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you so much.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate your time.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I look forward to seeing you more either in my own living room on my screen as I do some weight training or, you know, in one of these other platforms.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds awesome.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, April.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you guys, it's Kate.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: We really hope you enjoyed this week's episode.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if you did, go ahead and share it with a friend.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: It also would mean the world to me and Deb if you would take a minute and write a review.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: If this podcast makes you laugh, makes you cry in the best of ways, helps you feel less alone, gives you information that's useful to you in your mothering journey.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you write a review, it will make this more accessible to other mothers like you.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: So take a minute.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: We'd be so grateful.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.