Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Under the Lake

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Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Under the Lake · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a plump pen knife for doing quicker, quicker,
0:39
quicker 321 Hello. It's Sy Heart and it's Joe Ford
0:46
recording a commentary for a Doctor Who story.
0:49
Same old, same old. Welcome back to A Hamster with a
0:55
Bunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who Commentary Podcast, Joe.
0:59
A bunt pen knife. Yeah, I guess a bunt pen knife.
1:03
Today I'm renaming this podcast Joe.
1:08
Yeah, this is series 9 of new Doctor Who.
1:12
I thought I detected that. A hint of disinterest in your
1:15
voice there. Yeah.
1:17
How? How has it come to this?
1:20
We're desperate now. We've done all the best, yeah.
1:24
And here we are. You have, I say, you've dragged
1:27
me. Actually, I've dragged you to
1:29
this one. I I think I I suggested this.
1:31
Why are we doing this? We do it well.
1:34
We're doing this because for me, Series 9 of new Doctor Who, I
1:38
think is the weakest series of Doctor Who ever.
1:43
Or at least no, no, I think of of all Doctor Who.
1:48
I can't think of a series that I don't like as much as this
1:52
series, apart from Doctor Who's season 9, it's a nine thing, so.
2:02
I think that what you're going to be like when we get to season
2:04
99, then we're in terrible trouble.
2:09
But this I think I said when we did the pilot that the Capaldi
2:16
era is not necessarily my era. And this year really I found
2:23
difficult to get through at in a lot of points.
2:27
I mean there's there is, there are amazing highs.
2:30
There is obviously heaven sent. But Heaven said, although it's a
2:36
masterpiece, as you said, I think last week said it's not a
2:42
story that you ever think, oh, I'll just watch Heaven Sent
2:46
because. As far as to say that Heaven's
2:48
Scent fails as a piece of entertainment because it's not
2:51
entertaining. It's not entertaining.
2:53
It's it's an art movie as a Doctor Who episode and it's
2:57
striking and very well made. And Peter is amazing.
3:03
I don't want to. Revisit that the doctors bring
3:05
from terrible grief for an hour on his own.
3:08
It's it's miserable. And this is what I find about a
3:13
lot of this series that it's it's very dark.
3:20
And I'm not a big fan of dark Doctor Who in general.
3:24
Anyway, that's not not my Doctor Who Wheelhouse and I know people
3:29
love Doctor Who. They want Doctor Who to be dark,
3:31
like everything else is dark. But for me, Doctor Who is at its
3:36
best when it's it's got light and shade, it's dark and and
3:42
lights. It's that mixture of fun and and
3:48
thrilling and scary, and I think this pushes it a bit too far.
3:53
You know when you named Partners in Crime on The Who Gives a Flux
3:57
Studs and Studs as one of your favorite of the tenant era?
4:00
I was up a ladder putting up bunting at work and I punched.
4:05
The air and went yes, yeah, because it's it's a magnificent
4:10
episode. And to write Doctor Who like
4:12
that is I think, more difficult than to write something that is
4:16
unremittingly dark. Because creating that easy, fun
4:22
atmosphere is more difficult to do and more difficult for the
4:25
actors to do, I think, than it is to create something that's
4:29
dark and Moody. And for some reason, well, I
4:32
know the reasons because I think because the Hinchcliffe era was
4:38
so and is still so lauded that that's almost like the default
4:45
of what Doctor Who is for the majority of of people.
4:49
That there that will never be bettered in so many fans eyes.
4:53
And there's that constant Scrabble of Doctor Who needs to
4:57
be like that. It should be.
5:01
But that's not the only version of Doctor Who, and that is not.
5:06
I love that era and there's loads of great stories in there
5:09
and loads of brilliant Doctor Who, but there are so many other
5:14
versions of Doctor Who that you can you can do and to keep
5:18
emulating that and come back to that.
5:20
And I don't think that's necessarily what Stephen Moffett
5:22
is aiming for in this in this season, but I think it's what
5:28
fans fault it was aiming for. And then I think fans think that
5:33
is the ultimate. Blueprint for the show.
5:36
Interestingly, when I recently did the Flux commentaries, the
5:40
fellow I was doing that with, he named Village of the Angels as
5:43
his least favorite of that season.
5:46
Because that season is trying to do something bold and new.
5:48
And and then suddenly there's a hinge Cliff story jammed right
5:52
in the middle of it, you know, and it works against what
5:57
they're doing in the. Yeah.
5:59
And I mean with the story we're doing today, which is under the
6:04
lake and before the flood, because we haven't actually
6:07
announced which one it is. As usual, there's a lot of
6:14
comparisons, I think to things like Ark in space where you're
6:17
stuck in a base and you can't go and it's a base under siege
6:22
story until they go outside because they can.
6:27
But it's that kind of almost default Doctor Who and the I
6:35
don't, I don't know. And I the Series 9, I just found
6:39
that the atmosphere was it was so Samy, the atmosphere was so
6:45
every week, although the settings were different, the
6:48
feel of it all was very cohesive, but it was a cohesion
6:53
that I didn't actually like very much.
6:56
I think, I think that there is. I said to you in a message,
6:59
there's a fatigue to this season.
7:01
Yeah, I think the fatigue is not just in the production and the
7:04
tone of it, but like you've got the opening 2 parter, which is
7:08
all about Davros being so tired that he wants to bring his life
7:11
to an end and opening and the doctor is celebrating that he's
7:15
going to die again. And then you've got.
7:19
This, which is, Well, it's hardly an uplifting piece.
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Then you've got the shielded 2 parter, and that's about her
7:26
living forever and being so fed up with that.
7:29
Then you've got the Zigon 2 parter, which is really ugly.
7:32
It's just some politically very ugly things, and there's no
7:35
one's having a good time in that story.
7:38
And then you've got the two sleeping them all, and no one's
7:42
in that apart from Joe Short. And then, at the end of the
7:45
season, you've got the doctor staggering around.
7:48
You know, grief stretching a wall.
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You know, and then attempting to tear down the universe to save
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one of the blandest companions we've ever had.
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I mean, they just ain't no laughs here.
8:01
And I do wonder whether whether it's because we've got Clara
8:08
almost unexpectedly staying on. And so they've got to do
8:13
something different. And I wonder if we'd had a
8:15
different companion, whether this year would have been had a
8:19
different feel because you've got that undercurrent and it's
8:23
in this story of Clara wants to be the Doctor and wanting to and
8:29
desperate for the adventure and and all of that.
8:32
And so I think that also sort of powers all of this as well, and
8:36
it's. I do wonder with Clara though.
8:37
Like, obviously she wasn't supposed to be in this year, and
8:40
I think knows because saddled off as Missy's companion for
8:44
much of the Dalek 2 parts doesn't have much of her.
8:47
Then she's put inside a Dalek and the plot just takes place
8:50
around her. She's basically a generic
8:53
companion in this. She does a lot of running around
8:56
and occasionally is a bit clever, but she doesn't do
8:58
anything that's she's not even in The Woman Who Lived.
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Not in the woman who lived at all.
9:04
I think the Girl who Died is a very responsible take on Clara
9:07
and their relationship. And that works really then.
9:09
She's written out of the Zygone 2 parser.
9:12
And we have Clara. Bonnie.
9:14
We like the well. We didn't have Clara in it, but
9:16
we did have Bonnie, so let's have Jenna Coleman played.
9:20
The fact that it's a villain called Bonnie I think is
9:22
wonderful. And of course, you've written
9:24
out the series altogether, and then you have another episode.
9:28
Yeah, it's a bit weird, isn't it?
9:29
It is it's it's a very strange series and I think fatigue is
9:33
right. I think Stephen Moffatt again is
9:37
is running a bit on empty again at this point and the series 10,
9:42
he's back and he's he's brought his A game.
9:46
Yeah, well, that's the season he wasn't supposed to have, wasn't
9:49
it? Yeah, so it's like he's almost
9:51
like he's let loose and could do whatever he likes and it's fine
9:54
and he's just going to enjoy it. And I am going to have
9:58
Maurdassian sidemen. I'm going to give Peter
10:01
everything he wants. Okay.
10:04
Well then, the last thing I need to ask you about, Series 9 is
10:07
probably the most important thing in Series 9 is the ARC,
10:10
effectively, and she's not in this, but I'm just curious.
10:13
Anyway. A shielder?
10:16
No. It's really strange because I
10:22
think, I don't know. Have you seen Game of Thrones?
10:25
Yeah, she's great. Maisie Williams.
10:27
Yeah, Maisie Williams is brilliant in that.
10:30
And yet she's not very good in Doctor Who.
10:33
It's weird, isn't it? It is because basically she's
10:36
playing a very similar character, at least sort of to
10:39
begin with. I think the problem is is in
10:42
Doctor Who, she's playing a very old person as a child and she
10:47
she doesn't have the weight of experience of acting.
10:49
In Game of Thrones, she's playing a child that's forced
10:53
into the role of an adult, and she could do that.
10:56
Brilliant. Like that, Yeah.
10:58
Yeah. And I mean, the costing at the
11:00
time was was huge news. It was the front of the Radio
11:03
Times. It was was everywhere because
11:05
Game of Thrones was so, so good. And it was absolutely brilliant.
11:09
I loved Game of Thrones, but I don't know, she just didn't
11:15
quite gel into the Doctor Who world.
11:19
Well, sorry, we're going to cover.
11:21
Under the lake, before the floods, we are, I do.
11:23
Think you are kinder on this than I am.
11:28
The first episode is competent and I think the second episode
11:30
is boring. Okay.
11:32
Hoping you're going to be able to.
11:34
The floor is yours, basically. Oh my God.
11:39
Okay. Well, this will be interesting.
11:42
Well. I will say saying the first
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episode is competent is not an insult.
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It is a perfectly serviceful piece of television, well made.
11:52
It's well acted. There are exciting moments in
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it. It's got some mystery and
11:57
suspense in it. My big problem is it isn't the
12:02
impossible planet which. Does everything possible,
12:06
everything this story is doing, but way better.
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But we'll talk about that as we go through.
12:12
We will. That's a very interesting take.
12:15
We'll see how that goes. I sorted my other half and he
12:18
went. I've never noticed any
12:19
comparison. Are you kidding me?
12:22
In scene bar scene. They're doing the same thing.
12:25
Forbidden language that we don't understand.
12:27
Scenes in the cafeteria like for God's sakes, should we go into
12:33
the first? What should we do this.
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Let's go under the lake. Now you've shut all over Series
12:38
9 with. A great height.
12:40
You know, I'm usually really positive about Doctor Who, and
12:45
there's very little Doctor Who that I don't like.
12:47
So for me to not like something I think deserves 10 minutes of
12:51
time before an episode to unpick that.
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I think this is the only time when it's truly refreshing that
12:57
someone don't like something because you love everything
13:00
exactly. Well, who's counting this in?
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Well, you can count this in. Go on.
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Thank you very much and 54321. Let's go under the lake.
13:14
Here we go. We're at the Drum underwater
13:16
mining facility in Cape. May Sea Base four?
13:21
No. It's much better than Sea base
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4. Man, that's what the waters in
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the deep should have looked like.
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Sorry, Jason. I mean.
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But it's true. But look, I This is the base
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looks magnificent under this water and that.
13:34
That's a really lovely piece of work there.
13:37
But it's a fairly simple CGI shop.
13:38
But it's evocative, yeah, absolutely.
13:41
And you can see that they're in the dark and they're quite deep
13:45
underwater. You see this set here with the
13:49
shuttle in there and the dry out and all of that.
13:52
That would be the entire budget of a classic host story.
13:54
You know exactly that. Host story Yeah, that's like the
14:01
Ark in space. It's like Nova Beacon, isn't it?
14:03
It's it's the cryogenic room. Everything comes back to that.
14:07
I didn't know they kept running up and down the same corridor,
14:12
even though they built, even though they built lots of
14:15
corridors and the set is is huge for this, this story.
14:20
I was watching the Doctor Who extra that comes with it.
14:22
Is it? Really.
14:23
Because it just feels like they're going up and down.
14:24
They built a proper, proper complex.
14:27
That makes me rethink the direction then.
14:30
Yeah, so maybe the direction is is slightly off.
14:34
Now can I say, I don't know who this actor is there, this black
14:37
fella, but he's extremely hot and I wish he didn't turn bad so
14:40
quickly. Well, there's always one I.
14:46
Hate to objectify, but you know I love a black man in Doctor
14:49
Who, But he's not Zachary Cross Flame, is he?
14:52
No, but imagine a freesome with two of them.
14:54
Oh my God. Both mostly.
14:59
Gorgeous base commanders. Situation of the extreme peril.
15:03
I'll be like boys. Get your clothes off.
15:05
We're gonna die. Let's get up.
15:07
There's a ventilation shaft now, Diamond.
15:11
Heart. Anyone would say you'd explored
15:17
a few ventilation shells every time you said, Oh no, I won't do
15:23
that, I won't. Do that, I'll just.
15:25
Put a slight disclaimer out to the audience of the hands of a
15:27
blood pen knife. I do seem to be suggesting quite
15:30
a lot these days that Simon Hart is total slag, but that's the
15:35
past Simon, all right. That is the very, very past,
15:38
Simon. Oh my God, did you see that
15:42
graphic? It even looked like the Ark in
15:43
space. It did, didn't it?
15:47
Here's our extraneous guest characters of the week.
15:51
Yes, I think the standout one is Cass.
16:00
Now, this is how much I know about this.
16:02
Who's Cass? She's the deaf girl.
16:06
Oh yeah. Well that's doing it, which is
16:08
really brilliant and absolutely fantastic representation.
16:13
And and I shouldn't just call her the def girl because she
16:17
actually becomes the base commander.
16:19
Oh, here we go with Doctor Who's worst ever arrangement of the
16:21
theme tune. I really like the titles, but I
16:29
cannot. Murray Gold was tired by this
16:32
point as well. It was got fatigue.
16:34
I don't even like the titles. I hate the Roman numerals.
16:37
Uh huh. Locks.
16:38
And oh God, it's also obvious. Well, yes, that's true.
16:44
It's like the TV movie where they kept going.
16:46
Time. Time.
16:47
Time. All the time.
16:50
Oh, sorry. Oh, Toby Witthouse.
16:53
It is Toby Witthouse, and we forget quite often that it's
16:56
Toby Witthouse. When we did a town called Mercy,
17:00
we were listing all his stories and we forgot that he wrote this
17:04
one as well. Take me through the Wit House,
17:08
No school reunion. Oh, banger vampires of Venice.
17:15
Town called Mercy. Oh.
17:17
Banger oh sorry, I forgot the God complex.
17:20
Banger and this one. Somewhere in the middle.
17:23
Oh no. You're forgetting the lie of the
17:25
land. I am forgetting the lie of the
17:27
land. Clanger.
17:30
Definite Clanger. Oh, look at that side with the
17:33
depth of the TARDIS in the shot. That's beautiful.
17:35
That's a great shot, isn't? It.
17:40
I'm guessing so, but one thing that struck me when I was
17:44
watching this was when Clara is written as nearly generic
17:51
companion, it's brilliant. She and the her and and Capody
17:57
are brilliant together and that I love this.
18:00
This is like, it's like proper Doctor Who almost where they
18:04
they've landed somewhere and they don't know quite why and
18:07
they're exploring it. Oh, I said to.
18:09
I said to Mark. This could absolutely be the
18:11
opening of a classic Doctor. Yeah, it could be the Doctor and
18:14
Sarah Jane. It could be the Doctor and
18:16
Leela. It could be the Doctor and Joe.
18:18
Well, he said it could be the 6th Doctor and Perry, because,
18:22
you know, later on when he gets the cards out, he said.
18:24
I'd love to see Colin do that thing.
18:26
Yes, I love. I love the doctor sticking his
18:30
hand in the tea and he could instantly workout how long it's
18:34
been since anyone's been there and things like that.
18:36
That's really doctory. So you saying that you prefer
18:40
Clara when she isn't a massively important plot point?
18:44
And it's just the Doctor's secondary character.
18:47
I think sometimes with the new series we end up with companions
18:52
who are massively important, and sometimes that's to the
18:57
detriment of the stories that you're telling.
18:59
And sometimes you just want a doctor and companion and and
19:04
things like this. I think it works really well
19:06
here. I think that's what sabotages
19:08
some of Episode 2 for me, is that they're no longer together.
19:12
Yes. Whereas because they're really
19:14
good here and this is, it's nice to see them together.
19:18
And that I wasn't expecting that feeling when I watched this
19:21
again. And I think you get it a couple
19:23
of times this year. Not enough.
19:25
You do get it. A couple, like I said in The
19:27
Girl Who Died. I think that's such a
19:31
responsible take on their relationship.
19:34
It's like she's been with him long enough so she understands
19:36
when he's lying. I like all that stuff, yeah, but
19:40
because yeah, and the the Doctor's delight a bit later on
19:47
when when he says it's ghosts, he says I haven't met actual
19:52
ghosts before and it's. It's something about Capody
19:56
being cheerful, isn't it? Yeah, and he's yeah and I think.
20:03
I I always think it's The Husbands of River Song, where he
20:06
finally gets his doctor right, but I was amazed at how much I
20:11
liked him in this one. I like that being a flat line
20:14
where the TARDIS is small and he's like, will you just let me
20:16
have this moment, please, You know, But you see now they're
20:24
wandering around tunnels. We've been through a a cat as a
20:27
Cantini area that's seen better. We're about to see forbidden,
20:32
unknown language from the dawn of time.
20:34
This is can't be translated. All the impossible planet, yeah.
20:39
And then it's the letters on the I rather than the letters
20:43
appearing on Toby Zed's face. Yeah.
20:46
So it's a great image, but. Does invite comparison, doesn't
20:50
it? Yeah, I think that there are
20:53
significant comparisons, but it does something different in Part
20:57
2, which I think then changes it from being as a straight
21:04
reprise. And I don't want to sound like a
21:06
broken record, so I'll just get it off my chest now.
21:09
I don't think the guest characters are as vivid or as
21:12
well played as they were in The Impossible Planet.
21:15
I don't think that the atmosphere, like, cuts as deep
21:20
as The Impossible Planet. I don't think the set pieces are
21:23
as good. You know the bit with Toby Z
21:24
outside? There's nothing like that or
21:27
Scooty floating in in the black hole and.
21:32
So the trouble with doing a story so similar is you kind of
21:35
have to best it. And I don't I it is, as you said
21:41
it's a very competent base under siege story and it's doing all
21:45
the things that we like a base under siege story to do.
21:48
So there's there's jeopardy, there's there are good tunnels
21:53
to run up and down there. They all look the same to me.
21:57
Sorry. I mean, we've got ghosts, you
22:01
know? Yeah.
22:05
Like a There's even like a day shift and a night shift, isn't
22:08
there. Yeah.
22:08
Exactly. Which is.
22:09
Yeah. You know, I'm not going to keep
22:12
going to that well because that that doesn't seem very fair.
22:15
But I just, I just wanted to make the point and I think the
22:19
ghosts are really brilliantly realized.
22:21
I'd. Be the same person.
22:26
Except the only thing that don't work about the Ghost is
22:29
Capaldi's already looks like a cadaver.
22:31
So at the end. I'm like is there any difference
22:35
for this normal face? I realized Joe 4.
22:37
Joe Short's telling me to fuck off right now, but it always
22:44
reminds me of the cover of the PDA.
22:49
Fear of the Dark with Davison, with the with the eyes that are
22:53
missing. That's a great cover.
22:55
Yeah, that was a great. That was a great book.
22:57
It's a good cliffhanger image. Yeah, yeah.
23:00
Oh, absolutely. But it did take, but we're not
23:02
quite there yet to. Try and figure out what was
23:04
different. Yes.
23:07
Oh, you know what the fellow is doing The the sign language and
23:10
translating. He's hot as hell as well.
23:15
Look at him. How pretty?
23:19
I mean, I don't object to pretty men being in Doctor Who.
23:21
Do you? No, but none of them are as
23:24
pretty as Toby said it. Is true with his beautiful fore
23:28
hips. Actually, the thing with the
23:29
glasses is quite pretty as well. Yeah, yeah.
23:32
They're pretty cast it is. They're all in this sort of
23:36
sickly yellow licing. Yeah, it's.
23:40
And again, when they go outside in Part 2, again, it's very
23:45
rated Gray, blue. So it's all, yeah, it's all kind
23:51
of again, that's something I think this year does a lot that
23:56
there's a lot of filtering and grading that makes everything
24:00
seem a bit dour and there's not much color.
24:04
And I've heard people complain about the Chivenel era for that.
24:07
Well, I think those colors pop in that area.
24:11
You know, you certainly know when Swarm and Azure are in a
24:13
room. Absolutely.
24:14
I was watching Demons of the Punjab the other day and it's
24:18
beautiful, absolutely. The poppies in the field, Yeah,
24:22
and it's colorful and gorgeous. There's not a lot of sunshine.
24:28
There's like a different show to this, doesn't it?
24:30
Yes, and that's right, and that's what it should be.
24:32
And Doctor Who should change with each era and should, should
24:35
approach things. But this this era always feels
24:39
like to your blue to me. That's because it is.
24:44
You know. That's because it is.
24:45
Yes, tonight. You know, I've come far too
24:48
colorful for this era. You're from the RTD era.
24:52
I'm from. Era.
24:54
This fellow the businessman who's got trillions of pounds
24:59
worth of mining. Equipment.
25:02
So he's basically like the Steve Pemberton character from Silence
25:06
of the Library and Forest of the Dead, isn't it?
25:08
But he's the financier who's there to sort of secure his
25:12
investment. Absolutely, yeah.
25:14
He's the oily person you can't trust who is in it for what's
25:17
what the company can get out of it.
25:19
Can you try and explain something to me then?
25:21
Because I don't think it's a bad performance, but I think he's an
25:23
utterly unmemorable character. I forgot he is, yeah, because.
25:29
I think because with the other characters that are like that
25:33
with Steve Pemberton, he plays it up and everyone is good, but
25:41
they're all quite flat. Maybe it's all a bit
25:44
naturalistic, yeah. And maybe that's it.
25:47
And which is absolutely a choice.
25:49
But sometimes you need someone who's a bit bigger and because
25:54
we don't have an out and out villain, maybe that's that's
25:58
what's sort of outstanding or maybe there's not the Shades of
26:02
Grey that you've got there. So again, if we're looking at
26:06
the Impossible Planet, you've got Mr. Jefferson who appears as
26:12
a bit of a bastard, but it's actually a bit insecure and and
26:17
things underneath and is a is actually a good guy but you've
26:19
got those shades, whereas here everyone is sort of on a level
26:24
and that's their character. Did your wife ever forgive you?
26:29
Or let me tell you, she never did?
26:34
There's nothing like that here, is there?
26:35
No, no. That these these people have a
26:38
life outside of the story? Yeah, other than the 2 pairs of
26:42
men and women fancy each other and can't say.
26:47
And the fact that both of them fancy each other and can't say
26:51
is another I don't, I don't want to to be really down on this
26:56
because I I really enjoy it. But it's it's not quite there.
27:03
And yeah, I know what you're saying.
27:04
No one is quite defined enough. There's one of the couple, so I
27:07
can't remember which. That's how I remember all that.
27:09
I find some of this, but I do like it.
27:11
When they finally admit how they feel and they have a kiss, that
27:14
is a good moment. That is, yeah, right at the end.
27:17
That's that's a nice payoff. But this is like, I know there's
27:20
Madam Vastra and Jenny and a few others.
27:23
This does feel like a a solidly heterosexual era of Doctor Who
27:28
as well. I want to see some gay men
27:31
snogging, like in Praxeus, you know?
27:35
Or why can't there been the two fellows that fancy?
27:37
Yeah, well, exactly. There is no reason why not.
27:41
But, but never the two women. Or even the two women, yeah.
27:45
Well, no it. Began into all of this.
27:47
We've got somebody who can't hear properly and two women
27:50
kissing. It's two woke sizes, yeah.
27:53
Oh, sorry, what am I thinking? If this was in Chiba's time,
27:56
that deaf character. Would it would be the wokest.
27:59
Thing ever I remember this was celebrated in time and rightly
28:01
so. And yeah, definitely.
28:03
And I think she is really, really good and particularly in
28:06
the scenes where she's being chased, it's real tension
28:10
because she can't here. That is the best of this whole
28:14
story. Yeah.
28:15
Acts on the floor and we can hear it and she can't.
28:18
Oh, these cards? Yes, and they wrote about 20 of
28:25
them, apparently. Why haven't you written it for
28:27
me? I could have to.
28:29
Say I I apologize for saying a sexual innuendo to your Joe.
28:34
You never apologize for saying sexually.
28:38
We'll get Fraser to write them. Know Razer will just have a
28:45
whole 20 that just say stop it at.
28:49
Least I need you on every recording and you just every now
28:52
and again go Joe. The cards.
28:53
The cards it is. That's a great moment, though.
29:00
It is. And yeah, and it shows how much
29:03
he's moved on from last year that he could do that with a
29:08
smile and it's. It's a he says partner.
29:13
Stroke Peck, you know, hasn't quite got it right.
29:18
No, you were like this when you met Shirley Bassey Sign.
29:26
Well, who wouldn't be? Yeah.
29:29
See, look, all of this stuff is great when when it sort of slows
29:32
down and they all talk and I think as a bit of punch here as
29:36
well. And again, that they're doing
29:41
the things that you want, like all the corridors getting dark
29:44
and changing and things like that.
29:46
And you get that lovely ripple effect of the sea, don't you?
29:49
So you, yes. So you know that you're yes.
29:51
So you know you're under the sea, unlike warriors of the
29:54
deep. Or me.
29:55
The best set piece in this was when the water poured in and we
29:59
were doing Titanic and I was like, yes, that's what I wanted.
30:04
And Peter Capordi says that in in the the extras where he says,
30:08
yeah, there's something about water being in your set that
30:12
makes you sort of act in a certain way and makes you it
30:16
just makes it more believable and suddenly you're walking in a
30:19
different way and. Because he he dives through that
30:23
door onto his bus, Yeah. Not a young man, So you know
30:28
there's hope for us all, Joe. Just trap me in a submarine
30:34
filling full of water. I can think of.
30:36
Dynamic as the whole day. This is an interesting scene.
30:41
I don't think it quite landed, no.
30:45
I think it's I think it needed doing but it's a again I think
30:51
maybe it's a bit too on the nose I.
30:54
Was confused of what he was trying to say.
30:56
What he was trying to say was staying this hardest.
30:58
I want to keep you safe, yes. But it goes.
31:01
It's such a roundabout why? I couldn't figure out what he
31:03
was trying to say no. And I wondered whether again,
31:08
because I thought maybe it was a bit more like the sort of
31:13
running ark of the Doctor and Clara and Clara being too
31:18
addicted to this and she's too reckless to be outside and
31:23
actually she needs to be kept in check.
31:26
But I think they do it better in the next story.
31:30
Yeah, I think you're right. And also as well, I think it
31:34
just, you could do it with one punchy line, that line in dark
31:37
water where he says, you know, do you think you betraying me
31:41
would mean that I wouldn't help you or whatever.
31:43
That line that he basically says, I love you still even
31:46
though you tried to betray me. And it is a single line.
31:49
It was I was, I said what's he trying to say to her?
31:52
And he had to explain it out to me.
31:53
And I'm like, well, that was pretty clear.
31:55
Was he? No.
31:58
And again, maybe that's just sort of part of the the fatigue
32:03
that no one is sort of working this stuff through properly
32:09
because we get a very muddled hybrid story arc this year that
32:15
doesn't quite gel. I said doesn't quite gel,
32:18
Doesn't gel at all. I.
32:19
Don't even know what the hybrid is for this thing.
32:21
I think it might be me, you know, it could be anyone.
32:26
You you could be the hybrid. It could be us doing a hamster.
32:31
Oh my God, we could be the ultimate hybrid job.
32:34
We've done so many of these. Now we've.
32:36
Become the hybrid we've Become the.
32:41
Hybrid. But that is a bit weird when at
32:48
the end of the season you haven't quite figured you still
32:50
come. But what?
32:55
Look, I'll tell you what, he was hot.
32:56
Smoking hot, That man, you know, the base commander.
32:59
But he does look great as a ghost, doesn't he?
33:01
He does. He does.
33:04
I think the Ghost Look, as I said, it's just really, really
33:07
strong and it's really different.
33:09
It's because he's in a tank top and muscled as well, so it's
33:11
quite a sort of intimidating physically, yes.
33:15
Where's the other guys in this? Are not that kind of person at
33:21
all, so. Here are we in here 2119.
33:26
I read the caption at the start. He.
33:29
Said. I'd love to work for unit.
33:31
Last line of defense. That's last line.
33:33
So that means UNIT is still going, UNIT are still going,
33:35
yeah. And they know all about the
33:37
because they know because O'Donnell said she knows all
33:39
about the Doctor and knows knows his files and things like that.
33:44
So it's obviously they're still sort of unit operatives and
33:47
stuff. We've had the the Brigadier
33:49
Lethbridge Stewart years, we've had the Gemma Redgrave years,
33:53
we've had the Gordie Lethbridge Stewart years.
33:57
Now it's. Gordie's son or daughter, that's
33:59
running it. You know, I bet they're still
34:01
saying things like I my great, great grandfather Lethbridge.
34:10
Stewart. I walk.
34:15
Russell gave us the floor, everybody and have like Johann
34:18
Bamberra or something like that. I'm grandson of Brigadier
34:24
Bamberra. I'm grandson of Colonel
34:29
Crichton, Major Bears Foods. He's Colonel crying.
34:36
He's he's the Briggs replacement in the five doctors.
34:45
I'm sorry, where were we? I don't know where we are in the
34:48
story now. We're just rewriting the future
34:52
of Doctor Who, That's. All I like all those panels on
34:56
the wall there. Yeah, the panels have got again
34:59
a lot of the design is is nice. I mean, if you could go to a
35:04
Doctor Who student, this is the sort of thing you want to go to,
35:06
isn't it? Consoles, you know, and you
35:11
know, Michael Piqua never did a bad, a bad set really.
35:16
He He was always really, really good.
35:19
But you know I I wonder if even he that it is a bit tired at
35:25
this point because he you know he did he designed that
35:28
Christmas planet in Christmas Carol and the detail in that
35:35
like and I know this is serving its function and like we said
35:38
it's atmospheric but it is a functional base.
35:43
It's a base where people work, so you.
35:47
Know that's fair. But maybe I'm looking for for
35:49
reasons to. Complain now when I shouldn't.
35:54
Oh, dear me that hot translator. Sorry, I keep.
35:59
In my eye. There's something about these
36:02
sort of Latino looking blokes. You know, I had this free month
36:06
affair with a fellow from Columbia once.
36:20
We'll talk, Joe. I always draw us to the yeah, I
36:12
feel that that affair, you know, would make a more interesting
36:15
commentary than this. We always talk.
36:26
Too much about that stuff. Okay, Have we gone past the bit
36:33
where we got all excited about the ghosts.
36:35
Yes, we missed that bit unfortunately.
36:37
It was funny though, but it's really good.
36:40
Well, cuz we've been with this character for a long time now.
36:43
He's seen and done everything, but the one thing he's always
36:46
maintained is that the supernatural does not exist.
36:49
Yes, exactly. And we saw that in in Doomsday,
36:53
didn't we, With Army of Ghosts, where he's debunking it straight
36:58
away because you can't have ghosts.
37:00
Jackie say why are you always trying to ruin things?
37:02
Yes, so, So his joy at seeing this is a really nice thing.
37:09
And for Capaldi's Dr. that's a really good, it's a nice to see
37:14
him enthusiastic like that because so much of the year
37:18
before he he wasn't that engaged almost with with what he was
37:25
doing and he wasn't finding the joy in things.
37:28
And so it's that shot, that subtle shift in the character.
37:33
I think, I think Moffett deliberately put a distance
37:35
between the oh, absolutely, yeah.
37:38
And unfortunately, a lot of people then just went pushed
37:40
away from him completely and said, well, I don't want to get
37:42
to know him then because he's too alien and he's too
37:45
unlikable. Yeah, well, exactly.
37:47
And that's always the danger that you lose your audience.
37:52
And they did lose their audience.
37:54
But like, you know, I loved Jelly Whistler as a doctor and
37:57
I, she's my second favorite after tenant.
38:01
But I think what they did with Capaldi was a braver move than
38:05
what chippers did with Jody, because going back to a funny,
38:08
energetic, you know, Doctor that embraces life, that's kind of
38:14
easy to do. You know going down this route
38:19
is dangerous, though, because if you make your lead character
38:23
unlikable, what's the point of watching the show?
38:26
And I know people will say because actually he's not
38:29
unlikable or because he's not this, but if you're a casual
38:34
viewer, why would you want to watch this if the Doctor is not
38:39
acting like the Doctor? And this is the problem I have
38:42
when they they do things like this.
38:45
And I had it with Colin Baker a bit, I think at at the time as
38:49
well, because if you don't like the Doctor, then what's the
38:52
point of the show? Have you come around to Colin
38:55
now then? Oh yeah, I've come around to
38:56
Colin and I I completely see that and and it's no denigration
39:02
on either of the actors because they do a really good job with
39:05
what they're given. But at least Capoli gets to see
39:08
it see the Ark all the way through and does become sort of
39:14
ultimately likeable. But I have to again, as I've
39:16
said before, I have this problem with Season 8 Pertwee because
39:21
he's such a bastard that why would why does Joe even like
39:26
him? Because he's horrible.
39:27
He's horrible to everyone and everyone says oh but that's
39:30
really lovely and it's so funny. But I I don't like, don't I
39:35
think he's obnoxious in the demons and whereas everyone
39:38
else. Is horrible.
39:40
It's horrible. I do love and I shouldn't
39:44
because I in real life I would hate.
39:46
I would exactly, you would call people out on being like that.
39:50
And I'd probably. Hate Donna Noble and Jackie
39:52
Tyler and all of these obnoxious loudmouths giving their opinion
39:56
all the time, but when I'm watching them on Doctor Who, I
39:59
don't know. It's different.
40:01
It's it's not real life, but. I get where you're coming from
40:03
because. Because it is asking the
40:07
audience to not like them. Yes.
40:10
And what? Yeah, and when I think if if
40:17
Clara had loved him from the star and wasn't flip flopping as
40:21
I don't know whether you're a good man, I don't know all these
40:24
things that would have changed things.
40:25
But because even the person who's traveling with him isn't
40:29
sure about it, then why would the audience be sure?
40:32
And I think the the, the difference between that and say,
40:36
I don't know, say the 10th Doctor and Donna.
40:39
Because I could understand that people would find both those
40:41
characters insufferable individually.
40:44
Bring them together, these two loud mouths that are very
40:47
opinionated and very in your face, and they almost counsel
40:51
that out in each other. And they both have anxieties,
40:55
which they share with each other, and that deepens as it
40:58
goes along, but in the same breath.
41:00
They love traveling together. Yeah, exactly.
41:03
So it's not, it doesn't become insufferable because of that.
41:07
And again once we've got fill with this doctor.
41:12
She does, yeah, absolutely. She and she loves him and but
41:17
she is also not afraid to call him out when he's he's bad.
41:22
Whereas I don't think Clara is good for this Doctor, because
41:28
she's not in a great place because of the way she is.
41:34
And so they they make each other almost worse.
41:38
And it's compounded by the fact that we too technically have
41:41
three seasons of of Clara and three different claras.
41:44
We have the Impossible Girl from series seven, We have the love
41:48
triangle from series 8 and then we have that I want to be the
41:52
Doctor from series 9 and no phrase will be here saying to
41:56
me, well that's just a character responding to the situations of
41:59
the last series and progressing. But it feels like 3 individual
42:03
characters and it's to Jenna Coleman's credit that she makes
42:08
it work and she is phenomenally good.
42:12
She is one of the most talented people to play a companion ever,
42:17
and she makes this mess of a person feel real most of the
42:22
time and feel like she's a proper person.
42:25
I think once she gets through the Matt Smith years, she's much
42:29
better when she's given a character.
42:32
It might be a different character than the one she's
42:34
been playing, but. What is interesting about that
42:37
is I feel like she's the most divisive new series really like
42:44
her or really, really hate her. And when you've got one of the
42:48
finest actresses currently in the UK playing that part, it
42:52
shouldn't be that divisive. So something no, she should have
42:57
been The new series is Elizabeth Sladen.
43:00
The new Well, she wasn't she, Clara, basically.
43:03
She. Clara Sladen.
43:04
Yeah, you know, And. But she Yeah, but it didn't
43:10
quite win everyone like Sarah Jane did eventually.
43:17
I can maybe 5 episodes where everybody adores her, so you can
43:23
get it right as well. Yeah, because I mean she's, I
43:27
think, although she doesn't have a huge part, one of her best,
43:31
best stories is the Day of the Doctor and she is really, really
43:36
good and she is so much better than she was in the rest of
43:40
season 7B. Mommy on New York Express is
43:44
amazing. Yeah, and flatline.
43:48
I think the girl who died as well faced the Raven.
43:51
I think she's great, yeah. And actually she is really good
43:55
in death in heaven. Yeah, yeah, It's a bit of a
44:00
mess, but yeah, but, but sort of.
44:04
And last Christmas. Now, there is a reason why we
44:08
have spent the last 10 minutes discussing Capote and Coleman
44:12
and their respective characters, and that is because we've
44:14
basically just done a lot of running around the sets.
44:17
There's a lot. There's a lot of great running
44:18
around, yeah. Let's not pretend we don't love
44:21
it. We've been watching it for 60
44:23
years, you know, Absolutely. Yeah.
44:25
We like running up and down corridors, being chased and the
44:28
tension but. Excuse me?
44:31
Wasn't being chased. Well, you know, everyone has
44:34
their benches chased. So what do you feel think about
44:44
Murray Gold in this era? Because this is a big.
44:47
Part of Doctor Who through well through 1010 seasons, but I
44:56
think he. Needed the rest.
44:57
I was listening to the music in in this episode and the only bit
45:01
of music that really struck me was when they were running away
45:05
from the water and it was loud and quite bombastic and really
45:09
pushing the pace of it. The rest of it was very subdued.
45:13
I thought yes, I thought the same.
45:18
The one of the bits that stood out to me was when when Clara's
45:22
being played. Because I think that's a
45:24
beautiful piece of music and I've forgotten how much I really
45:28
like that that bit of music. But there's nothing very, again,
45:32
nothing very upset. It's all competent, but there's
45:35
nothing I am. I couldn't tell.
45:37
You, any? Particular risk from this story,
45:41
but as you said to me, hum music from the Impossible Planet.
45:44
That theme when scooties. Yeah, what is it like a violin
45:50
or something? It's real.
45:51
And yeah, it's all this because I think there are, there are two
45:59
stages of Murray Gold. I think there's Series 1 to 3,
46:02
Murray Gold, which is magnificent and he's really,
46:05
he's throwing everything at the show and then I think he goes on
46:09
a bit of a slide and particularly for the The Tenant
46:12
specials, he's really not. Not almost, Not there.
46:19
None of the schools are particularly outstanding.
46:21
And then he comes back for Series 5 and is really energized
46:24
by a new Doctor, and he's got this new theme.
46:27
And Series 5 soundtrack is one of my favorite Doctor Who
46:31
soundtrack. So I think that's a really great
46:33
year. And then he just begins to slide
46:37
again, and I don't think he's as infused by Capaldi as as he
46:42
could have been. I'd really like his doctors
46:44
being for him, but it's very long and it's and you get lots
46:47
of different bits to it. I'm going to feel like an
46:50
opposing. Periods.
46:53
Of his but not. Well, I think one to four is, is
46:59
his sort of. Experimental.
47:02
I'm going to try everything and anything and most of it lands
47:06
and it's stuff that he would never do again.
47:08
Some of it, but it's really unique music for the show.
47:12
Then I think Matt Smith comes along and I think of 5-6 and
47:17
seven, that might be his strongest period for me, like in
47:20
terms of his confidence. Yes.
47:23
And I think Capote comes. Along and that's it it there.
47:27
I mean, there's obviously good music.
47:28
The Shepherd's boy in, yeah, he's a great musician, but he is
47:33
a bit fatigued, yes. And always, always think the
47:38
transition is from when he goes from writing beautiful pop songs
47:44
to choral pieces. And I always think that is a bit
47:48
of a a sea change in the Murray Goulges and I I missed the
47:53
songs. I loved his songs.
47:55
You agree that dreadful bit of opera?
47:56
In Christmas, Carol was terrible then.
47:59
Oh no, no, no. I like that, see.
48:01
But because I'm fickle. All right, I.
48:07
Sing that every Christmas. You know what I sing?
48:11
Once I found a stowaway, Everyone forgets about that.
48:15
That's a lovely song. I was a little bit go make.
48:17
Borrow and steal. Way, way up be with my brother
48:22
upon Christmas Day, man, great stuff.
48:26
Bring back the Christmas specials.
48:28
Oh wait, we have. Oh, they are.
48:30
Bring back the songs, Murray, and let's have New Year's
48:33
specials as. Well, yeah, let's have
48:35
everything special. Oh, what's going on?
48:41
They're exploring the bagel, aren't they?
48:42
We're in power of crop territory.
48:44
We are. We love a bagel.
48:47
I love a bagel as well. Or those.
48:49
Three these days. Yes.
48:54
So this all becomes very. Important in Part 2, when we're
48:57
actually because everything under the water happens because
49:01
of what happens in the next episode, it is it's the village.
49:04
It's before the floods. I am Joe.
49:07
I don't know where I get these ideas from, that's why.
49:15
What's in that? What's in that poll?
49:17
It's a freezer. I think it's coming from.
49:19
I think it's come from Space World.
49:21
It's World Blitz from park. Just imagine that if Bonnie
49:28
Langford climbed. Out and went.
49:30
Neither am I a man. And what's more, who are you?
49:34
I told you this. Was worth a lot of grotch it
49:36
smell. Come forward, He's like shut the
49:40
door. Summer Long Blitz.
49:44
Do you know what he's fucking laughing?
49:47
This. I'm.
49:47
Knowing, wouldn't he? Well, we do sort of get a dodgy.
49:52
Dingling character in Part 2, don't we?
49:53
The Tivoli man? Yes, we do.
49:55
Yes, I I do have some idea. Of that race.
49:59
But they are a bit annoying as well.
50:00
Well yeah, well that's the idea. They are very annoying.
50:03
But I think, I think Paul K is better than David Williams was,
50:08
yeah. There's something a bit knowing
50:10
about Williams, isn't there? Yeah, exactly.
50:12
Whereas with with Paul K there's a bit more danger and a bit more
50:18
but. I do think.
50:20
Volumes is in a better episode, yes.
50:24
So it's like so horses for? Courses, isn't it?
50:29
Well, except for turn left. Exactly.
50:27
Yeah, nothing is. Ever.
50:30
That's. Absolutely And midnight.
50:33
Go on, you name A. Few and city of day.
50:36
Oh, just Sublime. Anymore.
50:39
Oh, there are. I'm sure there are more per.
50:45
I mean some would say incent is. Yes.
50:48
Well, it well, it it's perfectly well told.
50:55
I mean, I'll say demons of the Punjab is.
50:57
Yes, I would say Eve of the Daleks is perfect.
51:01
God stop. You're going to give.
51:02
Me orgasm. I mean all these Brilliant.
51:05
Doctor Who stories What's going on now?
51:10
I've. Lost the track.
51:13
I'm not sure they're working out about the the the words being
51:20
the coordinates. Of the base is it?
51:26
It's yeah. And the words write themselves
51:29
into your your head apart from the people.
51:32
So the people who haven't seen it, which a CAS and her the
51:36
other got her translator guy who she stops going in, it works.
51:42
Out then that they're immune to the ghosts because it's all all
51:45
linked. That's quite clever idea.
51:48
Yeah, what was the unknown language in Impossible Planet
51:55
from Crop Tour, wasn't it? Oh, from the dawn of misty
51:58
dawns. Wasn't it the great Elementals?
52:03
Yeah, very enticing. Sometimes I wonder if obscurity
52:08
is more enticing than it being spelt out to you, though.
52:11
Well, yeah, we all like that. Because there's a bit more
52:14
ambiguity, isn't there, Obscurity.
52:18
We're turning on all those dictionary lovers right now.
52:22
Look at Mythosaurus. Go on.
52:24
What's the longest word? You.
52:25
Know, I know. Lots of long words, but I can't
52:30
think of any right now. Ready.
52:33
Ready. I'm going to make them.
52:33
Blow their little antidisestablishmentarianism.
52:41
Concubicent. I'm sorry.
52:46
I'm just going off a ramp. You bring it out, man.
52:51
Every time I see the the signs with Vector Petroleum on them,
52:56
I'm thinking of Victor Pemberton.
52:58
For some reason my brain is also translating to Spot.
53:03
Doctor Who offers. I mean, you could do it.
53:07
He wrote. He was involved heavily in that
53:09
season, full of base under Siege stories.
53:11
Yeah, yeah. And maybe it's a secret.
53:15
Wink to Series 5 maybe. Well, maybe it is.
53:18
Oh, now this is the good stuff. Come on, the water pouring?
53:21
Yeah, this is what we want. God, the last time I saw that
53:24
much. Froth coming towards me.
53:28
Wow you. Were on the beach at.
53:29
Eastbourne, I saw that video. That's not my only fans.
53:36
What are you doing? On there.
53:39
Oh, look at this. That water.
53:41
Was that CGI water coming down that corridor?
53:43
No, I think that's real water. Look at him go.
53:46
He died through the door. Action hero for the ages.
53:50
Do you mind if I sing Bonnie Tyler?
53:53
No, you go ahead. I'm holding that for a hero to
53:57
the end of the line, he's got to be Gray.
54:01
And he's got to be grumpy and he's got to be.
54:05
Go on. My brain froze.
54:12
Now, OK, I'm gonna. Invite comparison again cuz I
54:15
think this is a lovely visual of them other side of the glass and
54:17
the water pouring up. But it does take me back to 42.
54:21
I was just thinking exactly the same thing, Doctor and
54:24
companions separated by insurmountable space, and I
54:29
think it's executed better. In 42.
54:32
Yeah, it's beautifully done in 40 times, you know.
54:37
Do you think Okay, Here's a question.
54:39
For you, I haven't actually asked you a single question
54:41
which is so busy. What's going on?
54:44
I know. Or did Fraser send any
54:45
questions? By the way, oh, I think he has.
54:47
We'll do the, we'll be. Desperately not to.
54:52
Always desperate for you. I don't know.
54:55
What was my question? You didn't ask it.
54:59
Oh yeah, do you? Think when Doctor Who is on for
55:02
a certain amount of time and because it covers a certain kind
55:06
of genre that it automatically invites comparison over time.
55:11
Oh yeah, I think so. Because naturally, they repeat
55:16
the same kind of stories every so often, because there are only
55:21
so many stories and the base under.
55:24
Siege story for Doctor Who is one of its natural settings.
55:28
It's when we could just stand here, sit here and think of real
55:35
off a list. What a great cliffhanger.
55:37
What a brilliant image he looks. Fucking ghoulish.
55:40
Does he? Does.
55:41
It's wonderful. I don't want to go to bed.
55:45
Thinking about that and God, we're watching episode 2, but.
55:49
You know, and maybe it's because it's Capaldi that it works so
55:54
well that he's just got the right kind of face to pull that
56:00
off. Yeah, cuz I couldn't see it
56:02
working. With Matt Smith, somehow, no, he
56:04
works better as the flesh, cuz he's got a sort of man because
56:07
he's got that kind of face, hasn't he?
56:09
So and tenant worked really well as.
56:11
An old man, I thought, yeah, he's such a young looking bloke
56:15
and maybe Eccleston would have worked with that kind of image.
56:19
Maybe they didn't do much to Jody.
56:21
Did they? No.
56:22
Oh no, I couldn't spare one. Hair on her head being hurt
56:26
though, you know, no, that would that.
56:27
That's just not on, is it? Absolutely.
56:31
Sigh. Well, it.
56:31
It did. We got through that laughed a
56:35
lot. But no, like, like we we did say
56:40
a few, quite a lot of negative things in that episode.
56:44
But I do want to come back to what we said at the start, that
56:46
it is a very competent piece of television.
56:48
It is very watchable. Yeah, it's it's very well made.
56:52
Everything is. Nothing is wrong.
56:55
It's just not hitting the highest level of Doctor Who.
56:59
This is this is average, everyday Doctor Who.
57:02
Almost. This is not Did we do based on
57:05
the siege again. In Jody Whitaker this time.
57:11
I suppose the closest was was Eve of the Daleks.
57:13
Really, it was terrific, wasn't it?
57:17
But I get but. They were doing something that
57:19
was different. Yeah.
57:22
I don't. Know they were.
57:23
It was the village of the Angel when they at the.
57:25
House is under attack. Yes, that.
57:27
That. Really.
57:28
Kind of figure, yeah. But that's almost like Doctor
57:31
Who Manor House under attack, isn't it?
57:33
That's your Pyramids of Mars and your image of the Fendile kind
57:36
of Doctor Who. Anything's going to get you hot.
57:38
Under the color, it's like a Manor house under siege, you
57:42
know? Well, look, my last question.
57:45
She then before we. Episode one under the lake is,
57:50
you know, if we didn't compare one era to another, one producer
57:54
to another, one writer to another, one showrunner to
57:58
another. Yeah, what a fuck would Doctor
58:00
Who fans talk about? Well, exactly.
58:02
Well, they'd find something to argue about, yeah, within the
58:05
same era. Series 8 is better than Series
58:08
9. Yeah.
58:11
And then no way we're in the same.
58:13
Season well, that episode better than that.
58:17
Which is what we've done in this episode in the same story.
58:22
Well, that. Scene was better than the scene.
58:25
Well, that line was better than the line before.
58:30
That reaction shot was better. Than the reaction.
58:33
You know what? No.
58:34
Matter how much? You say you can't compare that
58:36
to that we. Find.
58:37
Something, wouldn't we? There'd always be something.
58:41
The only thing I don't compare. Is the commentaries that I do
58:45
with you because they're all fucking delightful.
58:49
You only compare me to Fraser. Oh well, that's just an.
58:53
Added layer of delight isn't there.
58:57
I think I'll cut it there.