Latest / Brett Keane and Eve Show / Brett Keane and Muslim Talk religion, science and politics

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Brett Keane and Muslim Talk religion, science and politics · Brett Keane and Eve Show

0:02
Hey, hello everybody, welcome to Prophet.
0:04
Daniel has spoke on research channel.
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So I'm just using Restream today, just experiencing to see
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how that goes with Restream. So hopefully my stream shows up
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and I've done all the right things and you can hear my voice
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and everything. So I will just need to check a
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few different things here and I'll post a link for you guys to
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join me here.
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Nah, not that one. So in my link this can add
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channels to the stream. I'm not sure about that.
1:09
So the link is here and I'll need to make a poster.
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Shouldn't I do kind of attract people?
1:31
Prophet Daniel has spoken. Should be all right, I suppose.
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Yeah, I'll keep it as it is. No, I should do something.
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Prophet Daniel has spoken, so let me make something
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interesting for people to kind of hop on and grab a chat with
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me. No,
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OK, it looks good. So I'm going to page 4.
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Just exit this on page 4. I'm not impressed with the
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fonts. Just bear with me while I re
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kind of find a suitable font. OK, this one looks good.
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I'm pretty happy with that. So PNG page #4 okie dokie.
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So what I'll do here is just upload that.
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I'll be all set. Prophet Daniel has spoken OK.
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OK, that's all set guys. And you can really access the
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link that's on there and join in.
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So that's all set. Might have to open and keep this
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so the sound seems just all right and throw like myself and
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join me live here. Remove that join me live and hit
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it and then I can stick it up so the message is pinned for the
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link is pinned if you guys want to join and yeah so let me know
5:48
guys if you want to jump in it's a straightforward thing.
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I was using video ninja. I suppose it was, but people had
5:56
trouble hopping onto my channel, so I'm just exploring Restream
5:59
here so I can. No, I think it's very
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straightforward. You just have to click the link
6:06
and join the backstage and we can have a chat on what Profit
6:09
Daniel has spoken. I'm not happy with the video
6:16
quality as such. It's all right.
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I mean, that's what you get for free.
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And if I pay probably comes up with a better video quality and
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I'm not even happy with the kind of lighting it's throwing out
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here. What's gone wrong with this?
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Let me. ISO.
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Does ISO help? Just increasing the ISO a little
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bit here so I'm not in the dark. I think increasing ISO
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definitely helps. I can see here it's improved
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quite a bit, so I'd go with 400 ISO tonight and
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as follows. This is prophet Daniel has
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spoken research channel host and I host this channel.
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There's a lot of material on my channel.
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If you guys want to take a look, there's lots of videos and lots
7:41
of lives that I've done so have a have a grasp of what I'm what
7:49
my message is, what I'm standing for and cool pick up a chat with
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me. I'm a cool guy.
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I want I don't believe in disrespecting people on my
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channel. So I want to have a cool chat.
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It's all right if nobody knows everything, even I don't know
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nothing, you know I mean, I do know some things that's why I'm
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here. But but when I was writing my
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first book, I've made lots of mistakes in my first book, lots
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of blunders, you should say. But the book is intact on the
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subject for sure. But there's other things that I
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was writing in my book and I've made some blunders, not lots, I
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should say, some blunders. So far, I'm editing my book
8:27
again and I've stumbled on one of the blunders myself.
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Like I was like, wow, did I write that?
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So everybody does mistakes. Don't be shy.
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That should not stop you from having a conversation, having a
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cool conversation. I know people, you know, they
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behave like mundane, belittling people for what they don't know.
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But that's just insane. It's not a good behaviour.
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Sam, according to science, what came first, the earth or the
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heaven? Please answer.
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I think the heavens came. I mean, if you see, there's a
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subtlety here because the earth also has its own heavens, so so
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to speak. So the Quran says the planet
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earth has its own heavens, right?
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Its own skies and there is like the major sky out there, right?
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So the major sky obviously comes first and then the planet gets
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made and the planet has its own heavens or skies, right?
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So that's the Quran. That's the that's what the Quran
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says to me. Says to me, I learned this from
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the Quran and my first book. I'm going to show you my first
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book, which by the way, I'm editing, all right.
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So OK, I don't want to show you that just yet.
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It's all right. So the book has been there on
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Amazon for quite some time now for eight years.
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That's when I wrote for the first time eight years ago and I
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did not get a chance to edit it. So that's my first book.
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I'm I'm a non-english speaking guy.
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So you could imagine that was not the easiest of the projects
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that I did. But eventually, I mean, English
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people did read that. By the way, some of my friends
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here who are English, who are fond of reading books, they read
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those, they read that particular book and they were quite happy.
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You know, they could understand everything that I was writing in
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that book, for example. So I mean, it's all right.
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So according to the Quran, and the Quran says God made the
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major heavens first, and then he made planet earth and he made
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the planetary skies or planetary heavens later on, you know,
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after he makes the earth. If that answers your question,
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Sam, why don't you just click the link and just have a chat
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with me about it so we can have a cool chat about it if you
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want. So hit the link.
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It's a different platform that I'm using for the first time
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here, so I want to know how it all goes.
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So jump in, jump in, my dear friend.
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Science says the heavens came before the heavens.
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Do you agree? The heavens came before the
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heavens. Look, language is a human
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invention. Obviously human beings build
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language. Excuse me, We construct language
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and language must be used in a context, and it does get used in
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a context. So when we talk about heavens of
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the earth, obviously heavens of the earth got made later and
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heavens, the overarching heavens were made first.
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So if that's what you mean, then I agree with the science says
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the heavens came before the heavens of the earth.
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I agree with you. So Quran 229 and Quran 41 two
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says earth before the heavens. That's what I'm trying to tell
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you guys. Sam, pay attention to what I'm
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saying to you. The Quran talks about the
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heavens of the earth, the skies of planet Earth, and that are
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atmosphere, ozone, ionosphere, plasmosphere, magnetosphere,
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radiation belt, and the sky of gravity.
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So these are the seven skies, planetary heavens that the Quran
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talks about, the seven skies that planet Earth has.
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All right? And the Quran also talks about
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Asimovatul Ulur, which means the major skies and the major skies
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have been there before Earth was made.
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Stop babbling. Bring up the verse.
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Let's see who's line. You are trying to be smart at
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this point in time. And that's not a good start for
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you because I've written a book on it, OK?
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So pay attention to what I'm saying to you.
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Pay attention. I'm saying planet Earth has its
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own skies. The seven skies of the planet
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Earth, they are planet specific. They're planet specific skies.
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All right, so I'm trying to bring up the words that you're
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pointing at. OK, so stop trying to be rude,
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Sam. And I wouldn't appreciate it if
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anyone is rude and I can get rude as well.
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But I don't want to be a rude person.
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So try to be a sane guest and be respectful and we can do a good
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job. All right, How to share a screen
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from this here window? Window.
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OK, one of the windows I want to share here is just bear with me.
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Just bear with me while I'm doing this, OK?
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So where is the Quran? OK, OK.
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Why is it coming in this manner? What about this?
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What about that? What about this?
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What about that? OK, I'm happy with this.
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OK. I'm also happy with this.
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OK, so what's the question now? Read the Quran more than you
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show the verses. Take it easy, my friend.
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There's no hurry. We've got abundant time until
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you die and I die, right? So we've got time all the time
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that's there. And we can always come back and
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we can always verify things. So don't rush things, OK?
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This is the worst that you want me to bring up here.
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It's verse 29 from chapter 2. So what about it?
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Why don't you join me here instead of just typing?
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Just join me with your footage. Be be a man, be a be a belong to
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the civil world, belong to the modern civil world and show up
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with your footage. Let's have a chat.
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And I, I don't want to, I don't want to press on you.
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I mean, if you don't want to come on a footage, that's also
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fine. Come with your audio at least,
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because that'll help me have a good conversation with you.
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Come on your audio. What's this here?
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OK, those are two sources. OK, what do you want to talk
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about then Bring the worst. 229 says all was created on earth
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that went to the seven heavens. I read the Quran more than you
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should. Was Allah calls me the worst of
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the creatures Is the road. Allah calls you the worst of the
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creatures. Did Allah mention your name and
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call you by name and said you're the worst of the creature?
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I can't, my family is sleeping. That's fine.
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Allah calls you the worst of the creatures that did.
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When did? When was the Quran revealed like
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1400 years ago? And how old are you?
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And why would Allah call you are the worst of the creature by
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name? That's just unconscionable.
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I can't, I can't just come to terms with it.
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What are you even trying to say? Why do you pick on something you
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know like unto yourself? Why?
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Why can't you? Why can't you have some self
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respect and some some dignity to yourself?
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And why do you want to become target for something that Allah
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doesn't really call you by name? Why everyone shaky Nafina, if
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you will I come Cheryl Barrier 6 chapter 6 verse 6 from 98.
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So you are a people of the book and you are a disbeliever from
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the people of the book, the people of the book.
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When the Quran says people of the book, Quran treats them as
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believers. But there is also disbelievers
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among the people of the book. So if you are one of those who
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would like to disbelieve, then you are a disbeliever.
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And that's that's just the way it is.
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But if you want to believe in the Quran, then you become a
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believer. Or if you want to believe in the
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say, for example, the truth, you will be a believer.
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And obviously, as the things go, Muslims can also become
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unbelievers because if they don't really believe in the
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Quran and they just tend to the Quran with lip service, God does
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not count that as belief. By the way, if you're not aware,
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God does not count the faith by lip service as genuine.
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So God wants you to really believe and follow of the
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doctrine, the commandments in the in the book, and only then
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you will be considered a believer.
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So as such, lots of Muslims, cultural Muslims are also
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disbelievers, just like you would consider yourself to be a
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disbeliever in a cultural context.
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And you know, I call a people of the book are Christians and
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Jews. That's correct.
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But now after the Quran, even the Muslims are the people of
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the book. If you want to now look at the
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Quran, historically speaking, just when the books were given
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to the Christians, the the disciples believed in them,
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right? But then the later Christians
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invented things in the Gospel like they were not part of the
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gospel, but they invented. And things like that have also
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happened in Islam. People have invented a lot of
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hadith, for example, that directly contradicts the Quran
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and they go on to believe in those sort of things and and not
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believe in the verses of the Quran and do what the Quran
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wants them to do. So the Quran would naturally
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treat such people as disbelievers in the book, right.
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So if that makes sense, people in the book are Christians and
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Jews. Yeah, I just answered that bit.
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So why don't you join me here. This I'm I'm pretty happy with
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this, like Restream, it's not bad at all.
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Pretty happy. And I've got some debates coming
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up guys. So I'm getting some traction
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with some debating channels like obviously, you know, back to the
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Earth before the universe. OK, so we read the verse here.
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It says here's the one who created for you all that's on
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the earth. Jamie And the way that I
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translate this is like in a ecosystem, like all together in
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a system, you know, to to operate the earth.
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Then he looked at the then he looked at the sky and he
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fashioned the sky of the earth in seven functional layers will
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be Kaliesha in Alim and he's well versed with every creation.
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So basically the Quran is telling when the process of
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making the earth began. So God created material which is
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like clay to build the earth in this part of the world in the
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solar system. So God is building the earth and
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in and he collects all the material.
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The the process of accretion happens.
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Like the proto earth is formed but it does not have the skies
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yet. It doesn't have its atmosphere,
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it doesn't really have the other sky layers, the functional sky
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layers that God talks about and he those sky layers come once
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the earth is assembled as in the material.
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What happens is the sky layers emanate from within the earth.
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And for that you'll have to, I'll have to take you to wait a
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second. I'll come back to that verse,
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but let me let me just pull you out this verse so so you can
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sort of grasp what I'm talking to you around.
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So in this verse here, 2130, God says, don't the disbelievers
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see, like here, you might be the disbeliever, right?
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You might be the person who's unable to see the evidence.
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So God says here, don't the disbelievers see that the skies
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and the earth, the skies and the earth were joined together as
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one unit? Like when God made the earth, it
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was just one unit. It was a ball of clay, right?
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And then he split them apart from Takana Hummer.
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So he brought about the skies from within the earth.
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He brought about skies of the earth from within the earth.
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So these are the seven different layers, sky layers of planet
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earth. And then he says once the skies
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came up, it started to rain. When the atmosphere was formed,
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it began raining. And we and God says from the
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rain, from the water, we made life.
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And why wouldn't you believe so? It's very simple.
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So God made God brought forward the accretion of clay into a
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massive gigantic ball. And all that process resulted in
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smoke that we see in, in, in 41 passage, God says he looked at
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the sky and it was smoke and he fashioned it into an atmosphere,
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right? So once the atmosphere was
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formed, it began raining. And when the rain hit the earth
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from that mixture of water and clay, God began forming life.
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So this is this is the exposition of the planetary
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creation that is in the Quran. OK, now I will go to the verses
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that you want me to go in 79 and check it out.
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What are you trying to say there?
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7927 to 30, where is it? 7927 to 32, right?
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OK, now God is asking here, are you people a difficult thing to
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create for God or the sky that he has fashioned, right?
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So indeed God says the planetary skies have been a real thing to
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design and to bring that into fruition.
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Like for example, we see Mars lost its atmosphere, its skies.
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So once the planet loses its skies, life loses the
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opportunity to to to be born on the planet, right?
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Because the sun is a a dirty ball beating fire, and it rips
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off the possibility of possibility of life forming.
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So who's joining here? OK, my friend is joining here.
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How do I let him in? Hello my dear friend Brett, How
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are you doing? Hey, you remembered me.
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That's true. Hey.
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How can I, how can I forget you? How can I forget you?
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I'm having a cool conversation here today and this is my
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subject. This has been my first book that
25:05
I wrote like 8 years ago. And I'll show you the book if,
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if that's OK. I can show you the book guys.
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So Amazon, I go on Amazon and I type ancient astronomy.
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All was narrative. So this is the book Brett I
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wrote my first very book that I wrote.
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OK. And this is my first very book
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that I wrote as a result of as an outcome of discussions that
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I've had with my atheists friends here in Australia, for
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example. And after years of talking to
25:47
them, and I ended up writing my first book, which is called
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Ancient Astronomy, our last narrative.
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And luckily Sam is here with me chatting with me about this
25:58
book. And I love it because nobody has
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chatted to me chatted with me about this book so far.
26:04
So it is brilliant that Sam is here and I can talk to him about
26:06
it. And my second book obviously was
26:09
a take against evolution. And it's here and I explain how
26:15
origins of life happened on Earth.
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And that's my that's my son on the book page, the cover page,
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that's my son when he was. Born Well, can you make the
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image bigger so we can see it? Yeah, sure.
26:33
You. You know how to click the tab
26:35
that makes it take up the screen, right?
26:37
Just for a moment, OK, Just just bear with me.
26:41
Just bear with me, OK? For example, this right, So
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that's my second book I wrote. I wrote this book because my
26:53
friends here, atheist friends here, they gave me a book titled
26:59
Why Evolution is True from Jerry Akoyne, a biologist in the
27:03
University of Chicago, for example.
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That book was fantastic. I just fell in love with this,
27:10
with that book. And at the end of it, when I
27:13
finished reading that book, I knew to and I had a response to
27:17
that book, right. But I didn't end up writing that
27:21
response as my first book. Obviously, I wrote my first
27:24
book, which was a big question looming here on me from my 8
27:27
years friends who were whom I was interacting with.
27:31
So therefore I ended up writing my first book as ancient
27:34
astronomy and then this book and then my third book.
27:38
Guys, it might scare you a little bit, which doesn't really
27:43
show up here for some weird reason.
27:45
I don't know why, but if I did go on my name, for example, OK,
27:54
I can't call on my name from here, can I?
27:57
OK, the third book is called as Sharia for Australians.
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So that's my third book. Guys, it might scare you, so
28:12
don't be afraid. There's nothing wrong in it.
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All right, so that's my third book.
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It basically explains the Mosaic law and the basically the
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Abrahamic law, the law of the Quran, the Sharia that God gave
28:24
to Abraham and and Moses and Jesus and Muhammad.
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So that's here in this book. All right, so those are my three
28:32
books. And so why is it called surreal
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law for Australians for. Because I believe Sharia, the
28:41
law of God, the law that God proposes in the scriptures is
28:44
actually helpful to societies in the modern day.
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And it can actually solve a lot of problems in in the Western
28:52
society, for example. So God is basically concerned
28:55
with equality and mutual rights between men and women.
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God wants to make sure that, you know, rights are being awarded
29:05
to women and societies are just equitable and there's justice in
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societies and compassion in societies.
29:12
This is what God wants for human beings.
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He wants good for human beings. So he guides them on a pathway
29:17
to attain justice, compassion and fairness in societies.
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So this is what is God's law all about.
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It's not about chopping hands that you all the time hear that
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might happen in Saudi Arabia, for example.
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That's not that's not everything about Sharia.
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That's one of the penal codes that you can, you can unleash
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on, you know, really, really bad criminals, right?
29:42
You can unleash like for example, we have death penalty
29:45
in, in America, for example. So, so we, those are just the
29:48
penalties, but Sharia is a larger doctrine of legal code
29:53
that ensures justice, fairness and compassion in societies.
29:57
So. Well I I can understand that,
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but isn't the the system pretty much relies on who is leading it
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though? And it seems like anytime the
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Sharia law was set in place it's always someone who's cruel and
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uses it for the most terrible matters.
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Kind of like socialism and communism.
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So yeah, I mean, you know, I've got Sam here who's chatting.
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I'm not sure if you're looking at the chat, Brett.
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I got to really engage this guy here, Sam.
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Yeah, I see him out there. No, how can I include chats here
30:40
so that even you can see chats? Brett, do you have any idea?
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Brett, how can I include the chats from my YouTube on to
30:47
restream here? Well.
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Oh, they are. They are, they are here.
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OK, I just displayed it. OK, gotcha.
30:59
So Sam, I mean Sam, I advise you, my friend, my dear brother
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in humanity, you can be civil when you chat with me, you can
31:09
be respectful and I'll be respectful to you.
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And that's the way we can do things, right?
31:13
OK, so let me go back to the Quran.
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So 7927 it says God is asking a rhetorical question and says you
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know the sky of the earth that he has created was not an easy
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feat. So the Mars lasted Mars as a
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planet lasted skies. So as a result, life could not
31:32
be sustained on Mars. And then he God becomes
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succeeds. You know nothing can frustrate
31:37
God. Once God makes a plan, he will
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bring that plan into fruition. So God went on and built earth
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and brought about its skies that nourish life on planet Earth.
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And that's what we find here. A Rafa asked Samukhi Hafa
31:53
Salwaher, he raised its atmospheric sky.
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All right. And it says in this atmospheric
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sky which is which in the Quran is labeled as homosphere.
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So the homosphere directly is responsible for the brilliant
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light we see lit on planet Earth.
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Suppose if you were to go on moon and moon does not have the
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atmosphere, so you will not see a bright day like you would
32:29
experience on Earth. So this sky, homospheric sky
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contributes to lighting up or the the planet like in a in, in
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a gigantic bulb, right? The brightness you see the
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brightness and you're able to navigate and you know, have your
32:46
daily business done during the day, right?
32:48
So that's what Quran is talking about there and it says well all
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about the valley. And while this is happening, the
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earth is being spread out. The continents, the different
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continents are forming. So this is what is called as
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plate tectonics. So while God is shaping the sky
33:07
and lighting it up like all with all its splendor, which is
33:11
basically the hemosphere Rick sky of the earth, or you can
33:15
call that as atmosphere. So these are the things that I'm
33:18
explaining in my book. If you were to go back to my
33:20
book, this book. So these are the sort of things
33:22
that you get out of this book. All right, So how?
33:25
Come, Sam does come in and chat with us.
33:28
I don't know, he he just feels comfortable chatting and that's
33:31
fine. I mean, I don't have an issue
33:33
with it. So those are the sort of
33:36
explanations that you will find in in my book, Sam.
33:39
And God says while he's designing the sky hemosphere,
33:43
he's also spreading out the earth and casting different
33:47
continents. So that's plate tectonics.
33:51
And then and then God brings out of the earth its pastures.
33:58
Well, Jabal Arsaha Now when God is making these different
34:01
continents, he's also a building mountains.
34:04
So when different continents form plate tectonics, it gives
34:07
rise to the mountains. So that's a very good
34:10
description of how God made planet Earth and its skies.
34:15
Sam, if you have found this interesting and I'm sure you're
34:20
learning now because you are trying to pull verses out of
34:24
context and you are trying to tell me that you know, there
34:28
were skies came first and Earth came later because you didn't
34:33
really understand the context. That's why if you go into my
34:36
book, for example, if you're going to my book, you will find
34:40
those things clearly explained to you, the the process of
34:44
planet Earth and the creation of planetary skies, or it's all
34:50
clearly laid out in this book. So at Sam, you left out the part
34:56
about this poem. Why?
34:58
Hello El Cambalo. Hello El Cambalo.
35:02
And I'm showing you the Quran verse.
35:04
Read the Quran verses. Stop adding to the Quran, man.
35:09
I'm a scholar of the Quran. And if you are, then come and
35:14
have a debate with me about how I'm getting things wrong.
35:16
But if you are not, then try to behave yourself.
35:20
Please try to behave yourself because I'm the scholar of the
35:23
Quran. I know the language of the
35:24
Quran, right? And I've written books not 1/3
35:29
and then I've translated the Quran.
35:32
So I've got a lot of scholarship in my in my basket.
35:36
So what are you even talking so? Mr. Daniel, can I offer a
35:41
suggestion? Sure.
35:44
One of one of the things a lot of us podcasters and people who
35:48
go live, we usually don't pay attention to people who don't
35:52
even have avatars or videos of their own on their channel
35:55
because usually it means they've created a soccer account just to
35:58
harass you and get attention. Got you, got you.
36:03
I will heed to your advice and I won't engage with Sam until,
36:07
until and unless he comes on board here with us and at least
36:10
comes with his voice, if not, if not through his video footage.
36:17
So Sam, hop on, come with your voice and leave your voice
36:23
imprints here on my channel and we can have a good conversation.
36:27
So. You're looking forward to Sunday
36:30
2:00. Sorry Brett, I missed that.
36:34
You're looking forward to Sunday 2:00.
36:37
Absolutely, Brett. I am looking forward to that and
36:40
I'm so thankful to you and Brett.
36:44
I was just wanting to ask you, Brett, do you will you host the
36:48
debate on your channel? Because as you just said,
36:51
Maverick has video ninja, brother Maverick has video ninja
36:57
and that will make it difficult for me to stream that at my end.
37:03
If what I suggest is if you can stream it like with your with
37:07
your stream yard and let me and brother Maverick stream it
37:13
simultaneously at our end, then that'll be something something.
37:21
Unfortunately it wouldn't be good for you or Brother Maverick
37:24
because Brother Maverick has almost 100,000 subscribers on my
37:29
main channel. YouTube locked it up.
37:32
Apparently they don't like to hear about Jesus.
37:35
My live shows and on my secondary channel, it does have
37:40
live ability, but it doesn't have very many Subs on it.
37:45
And Brother Mavericks are inviting you to his big channel
37:49
to have a discussion, so that would benefit you both.
37:52
As far as what I do, whenever I can't stream from somebody
37:56
else's, I just wait until the video processes.
37:59
Brother Maverick always gives me permission to get a copy and
38:04
then I can put it on my main channel as well as the radio.
38:07
So you'll be not only heard on Brother Maverick, but you'll
38:11
also be heard behind hundreds of thousands of people on My GOD TV
38:15
radio broadcast. Gotcha.
38:18
So yeah, thank you for that information.
38:21
So how do you get permissions from Maverick to then later on
38:25
stream it on your channel? Like how, how, how, what is
38:28
involved? Like how do you do that?
38:30
You'll go in and you'll simply he's he's a lot like me in the
38:34
sense where he'll say hello, how are you doing?
38:37
I believe we've talked before and he'll probably, you know,
38:40
get to know you a little bit more and and all you got to do
38:44
is ask. Do you mind if I grab a copy of
38:47
the video later to post on my channel as well?
38:50
He'll say sure, no problem. Yeah, but how, how is it done?
38:56
That's my question to you. How is it done?
38:59
Oh, you're talking about software to download a video,
39:02
huh? Is that what software?
39:06
To download a video. OK so I need a software to
39:09
download a video from YouTube and then post it onto my.
39:12
Channel, I have an online browser thing where you don't
39:15
have to download any software where you can just put the link
39:19
in of the video and then download it and whatever bit
39:22
rate you want. Here, let me get that for you.
39:25
I also got something else that you may enjoy since you like
39:30
doing live shows. I'll show you that in a minute
39:32
after I get to the downloader. All right, here we go.
39:37
Send me, send me across that information on my e-mail.
39:40
I do appreciate that from you, Brett.
39:42
Don't you have a private chat? Private chat.
39:47
Oh no, it looks like it's. Hold on a second.
39:51
Let me. I think you do.
39:53
Let me see if I can post it here.
39:54
Yeah, I do. I do have a private chat here.
39:57
Did that do anything for you I just posted?
40:00
OK. You I, yeah, the link came
40:02
through. Thank you.
40:04
All right, all you got to do is when you go to that page, you're
40:07
going to see a thing where it says put the YouTube Earl here,
40:10
give it a moment after you hit convert, and then it'll give you
40:14
a download button. It takes like less than 5
40:18
minutes to download an entire video.
40:20
Yeah. Gotcha.
40:21
Gotcha. Thank you so much.
40:23
Awesome. It is.
40:26
It is, and I wanted to share this information from you with
40:32
you. You know the STD, it's called I
40:37
suppose. Just bear with me.
40:39
STD Sir, you might want to go to the hospital.
40:42
That sounds horrible. Why?
40:45
Well if you got STD's. Just bear with me, Brad.
40:52
Just bear with me. About that, Brett just got a
41:16
call that I had to attend. That's all good.
41:20
You didn't get my joke, did you? Oh.
41:23
I didn't get your joke, I'm sorry, what was that?
41:25
I said, Sir, if you got STD's, you need to go to a doctor.
41:31
I didn't I I still didn't get it.
41:32
What is? What do you mean by STD in a in
41:35
a in a different way? You mentioned STD's and STD is a
41:45
a reproductive disease in America.
41:49
OK, what's what's? You do.
41:51
You get it from doing dirty things.
41:54
You know what I mean? You get it?
41:58
See a doctor. Oh, you.
42:00
My jokes are dry. I'm sorry.
42:04
I actually was trying to say to you about standing for truth S
42:08
FT. It's not STD, it's FSFT channel.
42:12
Oh yeah, I've spoken to him before.
42:15
Yeah, I've spoken to him before. What about it?
42:17
So he is wanting to host me for a range of debates, like he
42:24
wants me to debate with quite a few different people.
42:30
Oh boy. During introductions the debate.
42:34
Thanks for the. Look, I, I like him a lot.
42:38
I do. But some of the people that he
42:40
has, his people debate are a little on the rough side.
42:44
You don't have a problem with that.
42:48
The the rough side. You know, people, people who
42:53
don't respect Muslims, who will be mean and nasty, you know,
42:58
throw out of ISA stuff, that kind of thing.
43:04
I'm just saying he's a good guy. It's just some of the people he
43:08
puts you up against that may not be very nice.
43:11
Want to see something cool though that you'll really enjoy
43:14
when you're doing your live shows?
43:17
Look, I know to handle people. If, if, if that makes sense to
43:22
you. I can handle people and I don't
43:26
really take their nonsense personally.
43:29
I I do know that people are capable of throwing a lot of
43:32
garbage at you and I know the man is done.
43:36
I'm I'm, I'm a strong dude. Like I've got, I've got a big
43:40
heart. So I do.
43:43
Yeah, but I wouldn't be considered a friend if I didn't
43:46
warn you though, right? Absolutely.
43:49
I mean, I you are my good friend.
43:51
There's no doubt about it, Brad. And it's, it's God made
43:53
relationship, you know, some relationships God makes, you
43:56
know, from, from heaven, God of the heaven makes from heaven.
43:59
And once you know, I got to tell you the story as well.
44:02
Once I was like drifting from church to church in a place
44:06
where I live here right now. And I came across this gentleman
44:11
in the church. I was, he was like, the service
44:15
was going on. Like I went initially, I went to
44:18
a different church and there I got told off by the pastor
44:21
there. He didn't like me.
44:23
So I got, I got like booted out. I was sent out, you can say, and
44:28
then he literally left me at the table.
44:30
He was having a conversation with me.
44:32
You don't believe he left me like raw, like, you know, he
44:40
just left me and went away. And then I waited there for a
44:43
couple of more minutes, but he he never came back.
44:47
So I got up from there and I went to a different church.
44:49
So when I went to a different church, I met this beautiful
44:52
person. I can say his first name,
44:56
obviously Michael. His first name is Michael the
44:59
Angel. So I met this beautiful person
45:02
and right away it all clicked like we became friends right
45:05
away. And since then we have been
45:07
doing Bible studies together. It's but it's been now a couple
45:10
of years now. So it took us two years to
45:12
finish Luke, the Gospel of Luke, and we just started off with the
45:17
Gospel of John and we've been friends ever since, like real
45:21
good friends. We visit each other, You know,
45:23
my kids interact with him. You know, he, he comes down and
45:27
you know, it's beautiful to, to, to be friends with Michael.
45:32
So yeah, some relationships. God of the heaven does it like
45:37
magically, it's magic. So it, it, it's not, it's rare,
45:42
but it does happen. And I believe with you it's
45:45
another such relationship. Well, I appreciate the
45:50
compliment. I wouldn't say I'm some kind of
45:53
Angel or Saint or anything, but I I do look out for people.
45:57
Yeah, gotcha. I I don't mean the literally,
45:59
like he's not an Angel, a little Angel, but an Angel lick, you
46:03
know, so to speak. Oh, I.
46:04
Get you, man, if you were sitting here telling me that a
46:06
winged entity came down and was talking to me at a cafeteria
46:10
table, I'd be scratching my head Over here, Sir.
46:15
Yeah. So how are you doing the I mean,
46:18
these days, what's happening with you?
46:21
Well, I'm doing pretty good. I actually posted your link in
46:25
your private chat. A second one.
46:27
This is really neat. I don't know if you ever seen my
46:29
videos where I have conversation with artificial intelligence,
46:33
but it can talk to you like an actual human being.
46:37
You can talk to it about the Quran and all that, and it'll
46:39
have discussions with you may like that.
46:42
Whenever people don't come in like Sam out there, he's hiding.
46:49
Yeah, yeah, okay. I will check those links out
46:53
once we are done talking SO. All you gotta do, just quick
46:59
instructions. When you open up that second
47:02
link, you'll see a microphone. You click it.
47:06
The moment you do, the AI will start talking to you.
47:09
It'll say hello, how are you, what's your name?
47:13
And then you talk to it like you talk to a person and it'll have
47:16
a full blown conversation with you.
47:18
Brilliant. I think that's what something
47:20
Justin did on his channel. He was talking to AI about
47:25
Christianity and trying to defeat the AI guy.
47:29
I think it's something similar, correct?
47:32
I believe the Justin guy that you're talking about, I actually
47:35
provided him the AI. Oh.
47:37
OK, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.
47:43
So. Yeah, yeah, I really.
47:47
Do you get along? Do you get along good with
47:49
Justin from Deconstruction Zone? Oh, deconstruction zone.
47:54
The Justin I'm talking about is TTOR.
47:57
He's a Christian, really cool guy.
47:59
Deconstruction the atheist. You're you're asking me.
48:03
Yeah. That guy, he does me like you
48:07
got done by God logic. He doesn't want to put me on the
48:11
mic with him. I there's atheists that are
48:14
afraid of me because they know that I know they're game.
48:22
I mean, I would be, I would be really, really wanting to engage
48:26
him just in deconstruction zone. He agreed on his live stream, he
48:30
agreed with me that he would debate me like a timed like in a
48:33
timed format of debate. But ever since then, he has not
48:38
really come back and answered my e-mail for some weird reason.
48:43
And one of the guys on his channel came to my channel and
48:47
wrote a comment. And he said if you get 50
48:51
subscribers on your channel, I will go to Justin and give him
48:55
$50 and ask him to debate you. And once I got 50 subscribers on
49:01
my channel, I wrote back to him. I said, hey, go and tell Justin,
49:06
give him $50 and tell him to debate me.
49:09
But yeah, I'm waiting for Justin to respond to me basically, so
49:13
we will see when he responds and we can debate.
49:15
Well, $5050 isn't really much to a atheist who already has like
49:22
tons and tons of subscribers. A lot of these atheists make a
49:26
great deal of money on the Internet, so.
49:28
Yeah, for sure these fans, yeah, the, the fans like the reckless,
49:37
the blind and they, they just munch on the content that people
49:42
just throw at them blindly. And this is what Jesus says.
49:45
Jesus says if you are blind and you follow blind person, both of
49:51
you will fall in a massive pit. So.
49:55
Right. People like being a part of a
49:58
group or a click that doesn't have any moral obligations or
50:01
rules. As far as I know, Islam as well
50:09
as Christianity and some forms of Judaism have strict moral
50:13
laws on how we ought to treat one another.
50:16
And atheists, they don't want anything do with that.
50:27
So what? What do you think about the
50:32
future in America? How, how, how, how's it going to
50:37
look like it down the line? Say, for example, 10 years, What
50:40
do you think the social interactions would look like in
50:45
America? Because it's all heating up on
50:47
the Internet at the moment. And like when I was in America,
50:51
10, how many years ago? There was 15 years ago I was in
50:54
America and I found the place to be a bit calm, respectful.
51:01
There were atheists, not that they weren't, they were
51:04
atheists. Some of my friends at workplace,
51:06
they were atheists, but they were respectful and calm and
51:11
trying to reason out things. But now I see on the Internet
51:14
it's all blown away, like blown out of proportion and people are
51:17
being mean to each other and they speak to each other
51:20
derogatorily, like pejoratively, and there's no respect as such.
51:25
So what do you see happening to Americans 10 years down the line
51:31
on this, on this platform of like religion and atheism?
51:36
I don't know if YouTube is going to last very long.
51:39
YouTube seems to be interested in having.
51:42
I don't know if you knew this, but I actually did a show about
51:46
this on my radio. YouTube has been putting a lot
51:50
of AI as commentators. AI has gotten so good that now
51:55
it can run podcasts and actually look like real human beings
51:59
making videos. Now imagine this.
52:01
Imagine YouTube puts out all this AI which they're working
52:05
on. One of them's called the Gemini
52:07
and the VO 3.0. If they can get that and get rid
52:11
of bloggers who are, how shall I say, not about following terms
52:16
of service and community guidelines, that's easy money.
52:19
All money they make off their AI goes directly into their
52:22
corporation. I think in the next 10 years in
52:25
America, artificial intelligence will take over jobs, the
52:29
creativity department, and that's pretty much what we'll
52:32
deal with. Interesting.
52:38
I mean, I'm sure you've come across videos that are made
52:41
essentially with AI. Like I see some of the Islamic
52:45
channels where that have like hundreds and thousands of
52:49
subscribers. These are these are real time
52:52
subscribers like Muslim people throughout the globe and they
52:56
the content that they are given to absorb is all built on AI.
53:01
It's not a real person. There's no real voice.
53:05
The voice is AI and people are somehow getting used to
53:08
listening to that content that people produce overnight based
53:12
on AI applications. And I'm sure what I how I see
53:16
that unfolding in the future is people will lose appetite to
53:21
listen to an AI voice. I mean, just bear with me.
53:29
Bear with me, Brett. I've got a phone call coming
53:32
here. I need to receive.
53:32
All right, We'll be back with you in a moment.
54:44
I'm sorry about that. It's been going.
54:47
The day's been going busy for me with a bunch of calls.
54:53
Well, I heard what you were saying about how you don't think
54:56
that you think that eventually people get bored of AI.
54:59
I'm not really sure that's the truth because there's a lot of
55:02
guys out there who are actually, there's a guy recently who wants
55:07
to make it legal to marry his AI girlfriend.
55:11
So there's people out there that are so involved.
55:15
They're wanting to actually have, you know, relationships
55:18
with these things and you know why they see it as a benefit
55:23
for, right. I mean, explain that.
55:29
Go ahead and explain that. Well, with an AI, an AI can be
55:33
encouraging. It won't condemn you or judge
55:37
you. It won't look for mistakes to
55:40
hate on you about. It's never going to be the pain
55:43
in the ass girlfriend or the the guy who you know is constantly
55:49
stabbing his buddy in the back. The AI won't do that.
55:53
It's nice, it's friendly and it gives people basically that that
55:58
weird disconnect that they have with, you know, normal people.
56:07
Yeah, I mean, I don't know basically how things will work
56:13
out in the future because I'm not the best of the persons that
56:16
predict things. And but what I'm saying is
56:22
people love natural things. People love organic things.
56:27
You might feed them artificial things for a time, but they
56:31
would soon realize the difference between artificially
56:34
being fed and the real, the real feel, the real human feel.
56:39
So I believe people who are watching all this garbage put
56:42
out by AI would eventually turn around and go to real people to
56:48
have real time experience. So I, I don't know, I've got
56:52
mixed feelings on those sides. So we'll we'll have to wait and
56:56
see how how that goes. Well, I'll give you an example
56:59
of something. As you probably realize by now,
57:02
young people spend almost 8 to 10 hours a day playing video
57:07
games. They get them self immersed in
57:10
these fantasy worlds and all that.
57:13
I think about it, if you have a, a character that's right next to
57:16
you or something that looks lifelike that is able to talk
57:20
and all that, see these people, they have two options according
57:23
to their perspectives. From what I've I've read up on
57:26
this and done some research, a lot of these people don't feel
57:30
like they can get the real thing.
57:32
So they feel like their only option is the AI.
57:35
That makes sense. If you're a person who's popular
57:38
and you have a lot of people to talk to, sure, you may not get
57:42
addicted to it or anything, but what if you're not one of those
57:45
type of people? What if you're an introvert?
57:55
Go ahead. Well, just just for a test one
58:00
of these days, you might want to just just for the fun of it,
58:05
turn on that AI that I gave you and try talking to it and you'll
58:09
see that it you'll definitely find that it would be a lot
58:12
nicer to you than 90% of the people you're probably going to
58:16
run into on YouTube. Gotcha.
58:21
The thing is, you know, you might have heard this Bruce Lee,
58:26
Bruce Lee speak. The boards don't don't hit back.
58:32
The boards don't hit back, right?
58:34
So you heard of it? Yeah, I, I believe he also said
58:39
that about bricks as well. Whenever somebody was showing
58:42
off and being arrogant, Bruce Lee said, yeah, but bricks don't
58:47
hit back. You know, I, I remember that
58:49
Bruce Lee was one of the the finest and greatest martial
58:53
artists of all times. But think about that.
58:56
I mean, if if you got an AI that's willing to have a
59:00
discussion with you, how many times do you want to experience
59:04
getting, you know, stabbed on by some idiot on the Internet or a
59:08
total stranger when you can have a nice conversation with an AI?
59:14
Yeah, I totally get your point, but you know this real job to be
59:18
done like hi Smokey, you're welcome here.
59:22
You want to you want to join in here.
59:24
So this is easy to join thing it's restream.
59:26
Just hit the link in the that's in the pin.
59:30
And if we can have a conversation with Smokey.
59:32
So what what's really happening Brett, is we have to somehow
59:37
deal with the real world. And I have had tremendous amount
59:41
of preparation like in the past years, in the past 2025 years,
59:46
I've been really thinking a lot about the religious truth, if
59:54
there is any to religion at all. Like so I have researched great
59:59
deal. I've studied these texts.
1:00:01
I've written on these texts quite significantly.
1:00:05
And there is not a point that people crib about in religion
1:00:09
that I don't have an answer to, but I know when to even give or
1:00:13
share that answer with someone who's deserving.
1:00:17
And I do learn from you as well. Your tips are handy as well.
1:00:20
So there's no point engaging with people who are just
1:00:22
trolling on the comments section.
1:00:25
If they don't want to make a appearance of them with either
1:00:30
voice or video footage, there's no point to engage them.
1:00:33
So I am learning and eventually I want to.
1:00:37
I want to be able to meet the giants.
1:00:39
Like you saw me yesterday, right?
1:00:41
I was waiting for Forest Walk I from the line to give me an
1:00:46
opportunity to have a conversation with him, but he's
1:00:49
been tilted ever since. I've had my first conversation
1:00:52
with him some time ago and he wouldn't let me talk to him
1:00:54
again. But eventually, one day when my
1:00:57
channel grows, he would have no option but to face me because
1:01:01
the pressure on him will mount my fan following.
1:01:04
Would I, would I would have my fan following go and mount that
1:01:08
pressure on Forest, Warkai and Dan from all of these atheist
1:01:13
experienced guys. So eventually they will have to
1:01:16
face me. So I'm just on a journey right
1:01:19
now and I'm, I'm preparing myself to face the most vilest
1:01:24
of the guys that are available there.
1:01:26
So I, I don't really back out. I, I, I have the temperament, I
1:01:30
have the heart to take their, take their abuses and give them
1:01:35
back. At the same time, because I'm,
1:01:36
I'm also skilled, I can give them back.
1:01:39
So. So it's only a matter of time.
1:01:43
Take my take my friend, Brother Maverick or Smokey St. that you
1:01:46
were talking about this a little while ago, trying to invite him
1:01:49
to the room. Smokey Saint's got a decent
1:01:52
amount of subscribers and Brother Maverick definitely has
1:01:55
a lot. But every time Brother Maverick
1:01:58
calls people out, sometimes they'll come in, but they
1:02:01
usually drop personal attacks and then they run.
1:02:05
Smokey, he's got a lot of Subs and he'll call people out and
1:02:09
he'll challenge him. They'll say let's do a debate
1:02:11
and a lot of people don't show up.
1:02:13
It's just recently that a guy named Kevin started showing up
1:02:17
to actually have a discussion with him.
1:02:19
That's the problem with YouTube. There's a lot of how shall I
1:02:23
say. I hope you don't mind me using
1:02:25
this kind of words, but sissies, pussies out there, you don't
1:02:29
want to have any kind of deep discussion.
1:02:32
It's sad. They like to talk, but they
1:02:34
don't want to debate the person face to face.
1:02:37
I see what you mean. What what?
1:02:39
What is the difference between Kevin and Smokey?
1:02:43
I mean how do they differ? Like what?
1:02:45
What is the difference between the two?
1:02:49
Well, if you're talking about spine, it's a matter of a person
1:02:53
being committed to what they view and what they believe in
1:02:56
and all that. Smokey has very, very strong
1:02:59
beliefs in his faith and he's willing to take anybody on.
1:03:04
Kevin, on the other hand, he's, I'm still trying to figure him
1:03:08
out. He's kind of incoherent and uses
1:03:11
what we call circular logic. Do you know what that means?
1:03:15
Yeah. But is, is Kevin having a
1:03:19
different doctrine to that of Smokey?
1:03:23
And and if it is different, how is it different if Smokey is
1:03:27
here? I would encourage Smokey to come
1:03:29
in and have a chat with me as well.
1:03:30
So. But you can explain, Brett,
1:03:31
Yeah. Well I would love for Smokey to
1:03:34
come in, he'd probably be more articulate on his views and his
1:03:38
beliefs. But I believe the big argument
1:03:41
as of now between him and the Kevin guy.
1:03:43
I could be wrong, but I Smokey, like myself, believes that you
1:03:49
can't just go and do whatever you want and expect God to just
1:03:54
let everything slide that you could actually, you could fall
1:03:58
from grace and all that as where Kevin, he believes that no
1:04:02
matter how many Twinkies, Doritos and old women you kick
1:04:05
out in front of a bus, you can get away with it.
1:04:08
And that's it's kind of like nihilism if you think about it.
1:04:11
Hey, Smokey. Hi, Smokey.
1:04:15
Welcome, welcome and go ahead and thank you Podium.
1:04:19
How's it going? Good to see you.
1:04:21
Yeah, good to see you. Go ahead and tell me the
1:04:24
difference between your doctrine and Kevin's doctrine.
1:04:27
Well, I think I actually Brett kind of nailed it.
1:04:29
Like there's a little, there's a little nuance with Kevin.
1:04:32
He's, I don't know, it's, it's, it's a little hard to describe
1:04:37
it. I have to get into really the
1:04:38
weeds to kind of explain some of the soteriology to you.
1:04:40
But you know, essentially there's kind of this, this
1:04:43
school of thought that you know, in, in short of it, you're saved
1:04:48
by just what your brain state is, your fuzzy feelings towards
1:04:51
God. There's no, there's no
1:04:53
expectation of practical application.
1:04:56
There's no sanctification as we would call it, which is, you
1:04:59
know, kind of that ongoing work of the Holy Spirit to make you
1:05:01
more holy, sin less, you know, be sanctified to turn away from
1:05:05
sin, to have a different attitude towards sin, to repel
1:05:07
against sin instead of adopted and, you know, be weak to it.
1:05:12
So, so Kevin has an interesting position.
1:05:15
It's not quite free grace. It's something called oh, SAS.
1:05:20
And I don't know if you're familiar with that term.
1:05:22
It means once saved, always saved.
1:05:25
So, yeah. So the idea is that if at one.
1:05:29
And the reason Kevin's a little different than the free gracers
1:05:32
is because he actually does believe sanctification needs to
1:05:37
be there. Sanctification will be there for
1:05:40
someone who is saved and justified.
1:05:41
They will repel from sin. They will turn from sin.
1:05:45
But he also believes that if they sin, there's no possible
1:05:49
compromise to their salvation. He believes that if someone
1:05:53
commits to a life of sin, that they'll basically be
1:05:56
repetitively chastised by God until they come back to the
1:06:00
faith. And if they.
1:06:02
And his position is really weird because he basically makes it
1:06:05
seem like God is irresistible, that if God is working on you in
1:06:09
sanctification, you will turn back.
1:06:11
And then other times he says, no, you can resist the Holy
1:06:14
Spirit and you can choose to not turn back.
1:06:17
And then he'll just kill you early and you get a fast track
1:06:19
to heaven, you know? So it's a very weird, bizarre,
1:06:23
he basically ends up taking on and he hates Calvinism.
1:06:27
But in a very weird, ironic twist, he adopts basically every
1:06:31
single primary point of Calvinism to hold on to his
1:06:34
doctrine. So that's why you saw a lot of I
1:06:38
don't know if you caught the conversation I had with him a
1:06:41
few nights ago, but that is a lot of what it came down to is
1:06:45
I'm fine debating fatalistic Calvinism.
1:06:48
That's fine. I'll do it.
1:06:49
But don't tell me you're not a Calvinist when you clearly are.
1:06:53
I can't get anywhere. You know, like at least be
1:06:55
honest with what you are and then we can talk about your
1:06:59
determinist position. But he just keeps denying it.
1:07:02
He just keeps saying, Nope, I'm not determinist.
1:07:04
And then says, oh, Yep, can't resist the Holy Spirit.
1:07:06
He's basically gonna gonna persuade you.
1:07:09
But by persuade, he really means force.
1:07:11
So the Holy Spirit's going to force you into compliance, which
1:07:13
then of course begs the question, well, why doesn't the
1:07:15
Holy Spirit just do that to everyone?
1:07:17
You know? I mean, that's, you know, I
1:07:18
mean, it's, it's, it's kind of, it's just a bizarre, odd,
1:07:22
contradictory, nonsensical fringe doctrine of Christianity
1:07:26
that he's adopted. And he can't defend it clearly
1:07:28
because he's just all over the place.
1:07:29
So. Are there many Calvinists in
1:07:32
America like? Dude, Oh yeah.
1:07:35
Oh yeah, sure. Yeah, a whole bunch.
1:07:36
You know, Presbyterians, pretty, you know, decent sized church.
1:07:39
There's several different branches of Baptist reform, you
1:07:42
know, denominations and reformed theology.
1:07:44
So yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a decent chunk.
1:07:47
Determinism is a, you know, it's a very low mental effort
1:07:51
theology to grasp onto. It's it's real simple.
1:07:54
It's real straightforward. You don't really got to think
1:07:56
much about it. You said it's so accurately,
1:07:59
it's a low mental. What did you say?
1:08:01
Low mental. Lowest mental effort possible
1:08:05
type of theology. That's very accurate description
1:08:09
of how that doctrine survives. It's low mental effort.
1:08:14
That's the most accurate description that anyone can
1:08:17
give. Low mental effort.
1:08:19
I like it. Yeah, it's and it it is for
1:08:22
those that tend to want to be pretty lazy about their
1:08:25
philosophy of the nature of God's relationship to reality,
1:08:28
which by the way is a pretty complicated topic.
1:08:31
And you know, I'm OK with people that say, hey, I don't really
1:08:35
get it. You know, there's kind of this
1:08:36
deterministic language. But then also I believe in the
1:08:39
importance of free will. And they're kind of wishy washy
1:08:42
and they're not really hard stance where maybe they do
1:08:44
believe in determinism, but they don't believe you have to
1:08:46
believe in determinism to be saved.
1:08:47
I don't care about those people, but some of these really extreme
1:08:51
hyper Calvinist nut jobs like Matt Slick or Jeff Durbin or
1:08:57
James White, you know, these guys are promoting their idea of
1:09:01
super hyper deterministic fatalism, you know, where
1:09:05
everything is inexorably destined to be exactly as it is.
1:09:09
And when you, you know, decide to kill someone, you know, it's
1:09:13
not because you decided to do it.
1:09:14
It's because God decided for you that you were gonna do that, you
1:09:17
know, So it becomes a, yeah, it becomes a very, very, you know,
1:09:21
you do challenge and compromise the very nature of God and
1:09:25
theology itself, which you think would be a red flag to most of
1:09:29
these hard determinist fatalists.
1:09:31
But, you know, I don't know why they just don't, you know, still
1:09:34
grasp onto it so. Wow.
1:09:37
I mean, I thank you for a very, very good overview of Calvinists
1:09:44
and yeah, I mean, you're, you're you're providing me with verbage
1:09:49
a lack probably in this area. So I I kind of like it.
1:09:54
But I, I won't bore you with one of the arguments, but I really
1:09:57
hooked Veckel's brain with an argument I had a while back.
1:10:01
I, I told him, I told him months ago, I said, Beckel, you come to
1:10:05
bait me and I'll prove you're a fatalist.
1:10:07
I'll pull the fatalism right out of you.
1:10:09
I'll show that you're a hard determinist.
1:10:11
And and he didn't believe me. He's like, no, Smokey, I'm not
1:10:14
that uncompatible list. I'm soft determinist, blah,
1:10:17
blah, blah. I say, I guarantee it, I'll pull
1:10:18
it out of you. I know it's in there.
1:10:20
And I brought him on the show and I gave him an argument he
1:10:23
could not escape. Like his, his core theology was
1:10:27
set around a very specific standard that as soon as I draw
1:10:30
a different correlation and a different set of circumstances
1:10:33
and the difference between secondary agency and primary
1:10:36
agency, oh, he got stumped. And you know what he did to bail
1:10:39
himself out? Jumped right into full blown
1:10:42
fatalism. I pulled it out of him after
1:10:44
all. In fact, I need to go pull that.
1:10:47
I need to actually go pull that clip and put it up for people.
1:10:49
That's a it's pretty catastrophic to Calvinist I.
1:10:53
Mean can you can you show me a link here in the private chat?
1:10:55
Can you please share me a link I.
1:10:57
I think I should be able to go pull it the, the determinist.
1:11:00
And by the way there there's kind of like 2 key components to
1:11:03
it. And just to make sure it's not
1:11:05
kind of ignored in this, there's the type of determinist, hard
1:11:08
determinist that kind of believes that like, say, every
1:11:12
single, see, this is complex. I, I don't want to get into
1:11:16
this. I'm just going to tell you the
1:11:17
different types of hard determinants.
1:11:18
So there's the hard determinants that is like the full blown
1:11:20
fatalist that believes that every single thing that happens,
1:11:22
God just pre programmed to happen.
1:11:24
Every decision, every manifestation, every blowing
1:11:27
leaf, you know, every moving rock and every single thing that
1:11:30
happens is by direct, you know, pre predestination,
1:11:33
predetermination by God to make that thing happen, that he said
1:11:36
all the matter in motion. He knew how it was.
1:11:38
He was going to make threats happen exactly that way.
1:11:40
So, so he's micromanaging reality.
1:11:42
But then then there's another type of hard determinist who is
1:11:45
not hard determinist about that. They don't, they don't invade
1:11:50
secondary agency. They say human beings still have
1:11:52
free will, but they'll say human beings have free will except
1:11:57
when it comes to salvation. And see then they, they're a
1:12:00
salvific hard determinist. So they're not hard determinist
1:12:03
fatalists like the people that say every single little thing is
1:12:05
micromanaged. They believe in secondary will,
1:12:08
but when it comes to salvation, they say, Oh no, regeneration
1:12:11
precedes faith. Holy Spirit has to work upon you
1:12:14
before you will ever get to the point to believe.
1:12:17
And that's part of their Tulip program.
1:12:19
T stands for Total Depravity, which means you're incapable of
1:12:22
coming to God unless God moves on you individually first.
1:12:26
OK, interesting. Just to make that clear.
1:12:29
Yeah, but yeah, I'll. God, What, what video was that?
1:12:33
You know, I'm going to have to go look for it.
1:12:34
I'm not sure which stream it was.
1:12:36
Is the one I had posted with Beckel.
1:12:37
I think it was the viewer's choice.
1:12:39
No, it was before that. I'll have to go look for it.
1:12:42
I need to go find it. I'm not sure exactly which
1:12:44
stream it was. It's sometime in the last few
1:12:46
weeks. You got his name in the title.
1:12:49
No, I should be doing that, Brad.
1:12:52
I know I get lazy about it. How about Calvinism?
1:13:00
I don't think, no, I don't even think it was about Calvinism.
1:13:03
It was, I think it was just an open topic show.
1:13:05
I think it was one of just the general open topic shows, I
1:13:07
think. Or no, it wasn't.
1:13:10
No, we were talking about something specific, sweetheart,
1:13:13
do you remember what it was? I was talking about something
1:13:16
specific. And then Beckel ended up coming
1:13:18
in and I think we kind of reworked the converse.
1:13:21
I'm going to have to look for it.
1:13:22
I don't know. I don't exactly remember so many
1:13:24
of these hours and streams, all these arguments, all these
1:13:27
people. Smokey, you just made me feel
1:13:32
like I don't know English. What do you mean?
1:13:37
Like I could, I could not speak like you just did.
1:13:41
So there is a big learning curve for.
1:13:43
Me just learning a little more practice.
1:13:47
Yeah, I think so. I think I have to talk to you
1:13:50
guys a lot more than I do so I can actually absorb things,
1:13:55
absorb the speech making and from you guys and learn some
1:13:58
things from you guys, seriously. Well, that's cool, man.
1:14:02
Yeah, whatever. Yeah, I'm glad to help.
1:14:04
Sure. Cool.
1:14:04
Awesome. Yeah, part of the problem is
1:14:08
I've I'm not English. Basically, I don't come from an
1:14:11
English background and I still speak in my native tongue at, at
1:14:16
my at my place. So the yeah, that sort of adds
1:14:21
to the difficulty of like articulating like just you did.
1:14:27
I mean, you did a fantastic job explaining these things, which
1:14:32
I'm really even now having difficulty to say that again,
1:14:35
like for example, I can't, I'm not able to easily say
1:14:40
deterministic, fatalistic, Calvinistic and all of that sort
1:14:42
of stuff. Like, well, you just.
1:14:45
Did you just did? Can I ask you something, Daniel?
1:14:53
Sure. The last time we talked, you had
1:14:55
said that you're interested in in getting people saved.
1:14:59
And obviously it's a different type of concept or maybe it's
1:15:03
similar to Christianity. But do you also believe in the
1:15:07
concept that you could anger Allah enough to where you will
1:15:12
lose whatever Whatever the concept of saved is to you, can
1:15:17
you lose it? Yeah, sure, that can happen.
1:15:21
It all. It happened all the time in
1:15:23
Israel, In ancient Israel, God gave them promise after promise,
1:15:27
but obviously with expectation. Even when he said to Jeremiah,
1:15:34
he said to him, this new covenant is of restoration and a
1:15:41
new relationship that God is going to have with the children
1:15:45
of Israel. But that with so much
1:15:48
assurances, God eventually brought them back to the Holy
1:15:52
Land. But that wasn't good enough for
1:15:54
them to be disciplined to God. And eventually they, they
1:15:58
continued to do things that were typical of them, angering God
1:16:04
through disobeying his prophets. And they eventually angered God
1:16:09
when Christ comes along and they fall all over again.
1:16:14
So God had to punish them all over again.
1:16:16
In some of the AD, he, he brought the Romans to punish
1:16:19
them. So with God, it's always, I
1:16:22
mean, in, in Israel, in ancient Israel, we have many examples of
1:16:26
how God deal deals with people, especially the Hebrews.
1:16:31
We have great examples of what God did with them, how He dealt
1:16:35
with them, how He was merciful to them, how He was like
1:16:39
fatherly to them. But their reckless business of
1:16:44
disregarding God's prophets earned them the wrath of God,
1:16:49
and God had to use his strong arm against them instead of
1:16:55
aiding them, which He did to David, for example.
1:16:58
God aided David with a strong arm, but unfortunately for
1:17:02
Hebrews, they invited the strong armor of God against themselves
1:17:07
and because God was angered of of their, you know, behavior,
1:17:12
their bad behavior. Right.
1:17:15
Well, it sounds like you and I, I, I won't speak for Smokey and
1:17:19
all that, but it sounds like you and I are on the same page when
1:17:23
it comes to this. I don't believe that God is some
1:17:25
kind of hippie sitting up in the clouds is going to take a bunch
1:17:28
of nonsense. I think he's an FAFO type of
1:17:32
God. You aggravate him and continue
1:17:34
to push you're in, you're going to end up paying for it.
1:17:37
And a lot of these people minded O SAS people and free gracers,
1:17:43
they speak the total opposite. They think they can just walk
1:17:45
all over God and God's people and get away with it just as
1:17:49
long as they claim or identify as being saved.
1:17:54
Self-proclaimed, obviously. Yeah, I don't, I don't know why
1:18:01
people would devolve to have those fantasy opinions.
1:18:07
Because we see, we see God is in charge and he does a lot of
1:18:13
damage annually. Like in the world.
1:18:15
We see a lot of damage happen to the world and we learn in the
1:18:19
Scriptures even Jesus goes on to say those people that got
1:18:23
killed, you know, don't think them as any greater great
1:18:30
sinners than yourself. So, so he gives this impression
1:18:34
that the sins of human beings attract punishments from
1:18:38
Almighty God, right so. Yeah, yeah.
1:18:42
That's how I view it, even though I'm not a Muslim and
1:18:45
stuff. That's how I my perspective when
1:18:47
I read the Old Testament on to the New Testament, I see a God
1:18:52
who will endure. He'll be patient, He'll show
1:18:55
mercy. But if his instructions continue
1:18:58
to not get followed, somebody's getting squashed.
1:19:04
Yeah, I mean we have a great example in in a lesson in Sodom
1:19:08
and Gomorrah, for example. They did something that was
1:19:11
displeasing to God and quite unnatural and out of the mercy
1:19:17
you can say the Provinian grace of Almighty God is that he sends
1:19:21
them warners. Lot went to them and he warned
1:19:25
them he was he resided among them and he taught them not to
1:19:29
do the bad behaviour and to reform, to amend and he offered,
1:19:33
he also offered them his daughters like these.
1:19:36
This is how you rightly do it. But they were so blinded and
1:19:43
once they found good looking angels like in human form enter
1:19:49
Lot's homes, they wanted to to do the bad business with them,
1:19:53
with the angels. And that was the limit of it.
1:19:56
Like, you know, the angels had come to punish them.
1:19:59
They didn't even realize that because the angels look too
1:20:02
good, too tempting for them to go and do the bad business with
1:20:06
them. So the the angels do what they
1:20:10
came to do. They rescued Lot and his family,
1:20:14
except for his wife, and then destroyed the townships.
1:20:18
So since. Do.
1:20:22
God does move to provide his grace even in the face of a sin.
1:20:27
For example, God is not like, I will immediately punish you.
1:20:31
That's not God Almighty. God never immediately punishes
1:20:34
people. He lets them have time to
1:20:37
contemplate to, to find a recourse to amend, to reform.
1:20:42
But when they don't do that, ultimately God gets away with
1:20:46
them. You know he, he, he brings
1:20:48
punishments to them, right? Yeah, that's where my view lies
1:20:52
as well. That's how I see it.
1:20:54
He endures and he's patient and he puts up with a lot of
1:20:57
nonsense, but eventually if he thinks that the person's not
1:21:01
going to make the right decisions in life, they get the
1:21:04
spanking. Yeah, very true.
1:21:11
What what, what, what do you think, Smokey?
1:21:14
I'm, I'm, I'm keen to know what do you think about about these
1:21:16
things that we just talked. Well, like, let me give me an
1:21:21
idea like something specific like like that you kind of want
1:21:24
to know. Like we just had a conversation
1:21:29
about how human sinful behavior would attract God's punishment,
1:21:34
and God's disciplinary action comes down.
1:21:37
So what do you think about it? I think, yeah, I mean, I kind of
1:21:43
agree with that. I also think that some of that
1:21:45
might be more covenantal based and you know, Scripture does,
1:21:51
you know, talk about chastisement, but the
1:21:54
chastisement that God delivers generally is reserved for quote
1:21:58
UN quote, his sons, which is, you know, essentially.
1:22:03
And you there's a couple ways to look at this, but I mean, just
1:22:06
to make it, you know, kind of short and kind of simple that
1:22:10
the idea of manifestations of difficulty in your life that
1:22:13
you're actually able to persevere through are intended
1:22:16
for basically a form of character building.
1:22:19
You know, that God will not necessarily, you know, jump in
1:22:24
to, you know, save you from any possible negativity or bad
1:22:27
circumstance, but he's going to be there to carry you through it
1:22:29
and do abide with you through it.
1:22:32
And those who have a covenantal connection to him have that type
1:22:34
of promise. Paul says things like, you know,
1:22:37
all things work together for the good of those that love him and
1:22:40
are called according to his purpose doesn't make such a
1:22:43
promise for just the general person, the unbeliever, you
1:22:46
know, who you know, rejects God. So there's there is, you know,
1:22:49
clearly and this is all throughout Scripture, an
1:22:51
intimate connection between the believer and the divine that is
1:22:54
unique to them, that is bridged by faith and fidelity, you know,
1:22:58
commitment that is not possessed by those who are just secular in
1:23:03
the world. Now God of course is still
1:23:05
sovereign over them, but His relationship with sovereignty
1:23:08
over them is completely different dynamic.
1:23:11
And I don't think God is in any way necessarily could be, but
1:23:17
isn't necessarily more obligated I think to be definitively and
1:23:21
directly reaching out to Him. Now, I believe He does, but I
1:23:24
don't believe He's obligated to, but I believe He does just out
1:23:28
of nature of him being good and merciful, that He does attempt
1:23:31
to reach everyone however He can where they can, where he where
1:23:35
he believes he can reach him. I believe that he does act
1:23:38
dynamically through human beings, through those who are
1:23:40
sanctified to do the good work of bringing people to salvation.
1:23:46
And I think that's part of his good pleasure is to not just do
1:23:49
it himself, but to do it in a communion with mankind, in a
1:23:52
relationship, which I think is the teleology of all of reality
1:23:55
anyway. So I don't know if that helps
1:23:58
clarify. No, I can't agree more on your
1:24:00
closing statement though. I agreed with it.
1:24:03
Go ahead. Go ahead, Brett.
1:24:06
Well, I was going to say I agree with Smokey as well.
1:24:09
If if God feels like someone is going to or God and his and his
1:24:15
nature understands that someone has a potential to be able to
1:24:19
change. Sure.
1:24:21
But I I think what me and Mr. Daniel correct me if I'm wrong,
1:24:25
is getting at is what about the person who already they were
1:24:29
going in the right direction, but then they deliberately, they
1:24:33
intentionally do things that irritate God and they simply
1:24:37
won't change what will be the final outcome.
1:24:41
That's that's what we were getting at.
1:24:43
We were we did imply that he's patient and doer show mercy and
1:24:48
try to carry someone through it. But we're talking about the
1:24:51
people who are, you know, bastards.
1:24:54
Yeah. The answer to that is Romans
1:24:55
one. Yeah, absolutely.
1:24:58
You know, giving them over to a reprobate mind.
1:25:00
You know, there's, there's a certain point, just like with
1:25:02
the Jews, you know, Jeremiah had to watch the the glory of God
1:25:05
depart the temple. It didn't happen, you know, just
1:25:08
because the first Jew and the camp decided to, you know, take
1:25:11
up idolatry, You know, like God was there.
1:25:14
He was merciful, He resided with them.
1:25:16
He sent the prophets, he sent warnings.
1:25:18
He tried to work with them. He tried to get him back.
1:25:20
But at a certain point where there was just a critical mass
1:25:23
of no turning back, God judged them and God departed.
1:25:26
And I think it's really the same with us too.
1:25:29
I don't know what limit each person has to where God or the
1:25:32
Holy Spirit will depart them, but I do know this.
1:25:34
We shouldn't be trying to test it to find out.
1:25:42
What do you say, Brad? Did you get?
1:25:43
Did you get the answers from Smokey?
1:25:46
Yeah, I think that he answered it as usual.
1:25:49
He's articulate and to the point, yeah.
1:25:52
Absolutely. I agree.
1:25:53
Yeah, I, I basically we, we all agree on this.
1:25:57
So that's that's a good agreement to have right between
1:25:59
Muslims and Christians, like a Muslim and a Christian.
1:26:03
It's it's good. It's basically good agreement.
1:26:06
I also agree with what Smokey was saying earlier too, about I
1:26:11
think a lot of people choose this.
1:26:13
Christian nihilism is the name I give it.
1:26:15
I, I decided to invent that word because I think there's people
1:26:20
out there who don't want to show compassion.
1:26:23
They don't want to help out the poor.
1:26:24
They don't want to, you know, give drink to the thirsty and
1:26:27
food to the hungry. They don't want to do anything.
1:26:30
They just want to simply convince themselves that as long
1:26:34
as they believe, they can get away with murder.
1:26:37
Literally. Yeah.
1:26:43
I mean, I mean, wonderful to to have some form of an agreement
1:26:47
on the teleological side of God's dynamic with men.
1:26:53
And it is very, in my opinion, it's very justified position to
1:26:57
have that sort of a relationship between man and God, because
1:27:03
ultimately God is the king. He is in charge.
1:27:05
He has given, he has brought us into existence.
1:27:10
And as such, if human beings go and cause malevolence, it was,
1:27:16
it would not, it would not befit the majesty of Almighty God to,
1:27:22
to let that happen forever. He has to put an end to it.
1:27:26
So it's it's good. No.
1:27:33
Anything else on your mind? It looks like we're at a
1:27:36
standstill on that one. Look, it was fantastic today and
1:27:42
I loved it. I loved you guys coming on
1:27:45
board. And maybe if we, you know, we, I
1:27:49
mean, I don't mind coming here every day, for example, and
1:27:52
having a, having a chat with you guys.
1:27:54
But yeah, I I also encourage you to come up with topics that we
1:27:58
can chat about and if it need not be always I.
1:28:02
Do have one? I do have one query to present
1:28:05
to you, unless you're wrapping up right now.
1:28:11
I mean, I can listen to the query and we can talk about it
1:28:13
tomorrow, if that's OK, Smokey. Yeah, that's why.
1:28:16
Yeah, I know. I'll give it to you real quick
1:28:18
and just, it's just a couple quick questions.
1:28:20
Just kind of branch into it and then maybe we can branch into it
1:28:24
more than, or maybe, you know what, let's just save it.
1:28:26
It's fine. You know what?
1:28:27
Because we'll get into it if I do it and let's just save it.
1:28:30
I'll come back. It's fine.
1:28:32
Just remind me. Remind me about, you know, just
1:28:37
remind me. Just say the nature of the Cron
1:28:39
and I'll I'll I'll remember. Nature of the crime Is it Nature
1:28:44
of the crime Nature. Koran, I'm sorry, nature of the
1:28:47
Quran, the. Nature of the Quran OK OK, we'll
1:28:50
come back to yeah, just. Just remind me of that and I'll
1:28:52
remember what it is. You guys are breaking.
1:28:55
The rules though. The rules?
1:28:58
It's only the show's only been going an hour and 29 minutes.
1:29:02
You know that you can't turn it off until it says 3 and the top
1:29:06
number. Brett, when Brett came on, when
1:29:11
Brett came on and interviewed me, we went for five hours.
1:29:16
He interviewed me for five hours.
1:29:18
Credit. We had a couple breaks in
1:29:19
between, but yeah, five hours. Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness,
1:29:24
I I did the. The time I did the abortion
1:29:26
stream, I went 12 hours. Oh my goodness.
1:29:30
Look, I do understand Americans are very tough.
1:29:32
Like, physically tough, anatomically tough.
1:29:35
I'm an Indian. Like you have to be.
1:29:39
You need to have some grace because you don't find any
1:29:41
Indians in MMA do. You yeah, that's a fairpoint.
1:29:47
That's a fairpoint. I'm like I'm wrapping up in the
1:29:53
editing of video you. Smoke.
1:29:55
You do what I'm. I'm sorry.
1:29:57
Well, you said you did a 12 hour show or an abortion.
1:30:00
Would you mind if I got a link to that so I could?
1:30:03
You wouldn't mind if I put that up on the radio?
1:30:05
It. Is.
1:30:07
It is back from the JP Uncut days.
1:30:10
Just pray New York when he was still that Channel.
1:30:13
I will have to go back and dig it up out of the Cone Club cult
1:30:17
archive, but I'll look for it for you, Brad.
1:30:20
I'll pull it up and I'll find it pretty quickly.
1:30:23
I think I'll send it over to you.
1:30:26
Wait, All right. You sure you want to close out
1:30:29
already, Mr. Daniel? Look, I have another hour before
1:30:35
I actually go out and you know, pick do the pick up things here.
1:30:39
So in one hour, let me let me say this, let me request this
1:30:43
from Smokey. It's time for me to have lunch
1:30:46
now. So I'll grab my lunch and I will
1:30:48
let you and Brett interact with the nature of the Quran and the
1:30:54
nature of the Gospels and the Bible.
1:30:57
So I can listen to you guys for quite some time on how you
1:31:01
discourse the subject. And then I'll wrap it up.
1:31:05
I'll wrap it up and come back tomorrow and discuss about it,
1:31:08
or I will. I might even pitch in, right?
1:31:11
So I'm giving it to you. The floor is yours.
1:31:13
Go and have an interaction on the nature of the Quran, the
1:31:16
Gospel, and the Bible. Go ahead.
1:31:19
What is the nature, Smokey? What is the nature?
1:31:23
Yeah. So to begin, I guess I'll start
1:31:25
with kind of like the distinctiveness between like the
1:31:29
Bible and of course the Quran. Now both are essentially
1:31:33
colloquially referred to as the word of God.
1:31:38
Now the instantiation of the word in God or it's inscribing,
1:31:43
you know, in our it basically in the Bible or what we have in its
1:31:46
original language and also in the translated text that we
1:31:48
actually hold, this is an instantiation.
1:31:51
This is basically an energy manifestation.
1:31:53
This is one of the things I kind of like about Eastern Orthodoxy
1:31:56
is philosophically they do draw a distinction in God between the
1:32:01
energy and the essence. The essence of God is what he
1:32:05
basically actually is. The energy is what instantiates
1:32:09
in reality. So what instantiates in reality
1:32:11
isn't really fully and completely absolutely Him as He
1:32:14
is because he does not fit in this reality because he's
1:32:17
transcendental. So what we see manifest is
1:32:20
basically an energy or an instantiation of his nature or
1:32:24
His essence. This is how we draw a
1:32:27
distinction between basically what manifests in reality and
1:32:30
what God actually truly, legitimately is.
1:32:32
Which God is invisible, God is spirit, God is not not actually
1:32:36
something that can be contained or confined in our finite 3
1:32:40
dimensional reality by nature has to be transcendental.
1:32:44
So the entire essence of God is transcendental.
1:32:47
Therefore cannot, you know, correlate directly and
1:32:49
immediately into our reality. So it manifests is something
1:32:52
else other than just the full essence.
1:32:53
And that's where we call the the energy distinction.
1:32:56
I kind of like the way that the Orthodox explain that and they
1:33:00
think they do a little bit better job philosophically than
1:33:03
the Catholic principle of divine simplicity, which I do think has
1:33:07
its merits in its own right, but also has some shortfalls.
1:33:11
So anyway, getting back to the central point, the nature of
1:33:13
these two texts, both claiming to be the Word of God.
1:33:16
However, the nature of the Word of God and Christianity and the
1:33:18
nature of the word of God in the Quran are two radically
1:33:22
different things. See, we understand the word of
1:33:26
God as being God, but also, you know, being distinct from the
1:33:32
Father, you know, because we have a Trinitarian generally way
1:33:35
of thinking with some Holy Spirit where they all want God.
1:33:40
But of course, they are also sharing in also a unity and also
1:33:45
a distinctiveness kind of in the the same way.
1:33:47
And we see this concept concept actually emerging at the very
1:33:50
beginning of the Bible in Genesis where it talks about
1:33:54
Adam and Eve and they're joined together and they become one
1:33:57
flesh. And that that actual verb,
1:34:01
they're used in terms of the one.
1:34:03
I'm sorry, the word, I'm not sure it's a verb.
1:34:05
I apologize. I think it's a noun that verb
1:34:07
for the one or the is, is actually the the word for unity.
1:34:11
Oneness in unity, not oneness in singularity.
1:34:14
That's what's used to talk about Adam and Eve and their merger.
1:34:18
I don't remember the exact Hebrew word.
1:34:19
We can pull it up in the interlinear.
1:34:21
And if you go to the Shabbat, Deuteronomy 64, where God
1:34:25
introduces himself basically to the people, it's one of the most
1:34:29
well known verses that every Hebrew child would have
1:34:31
described. In your heart, you know, hear, O
1:34:33
Israel, the Lord your God is 1 This this is a very interesting
1:34:38
phrase because here in this very text you have again the usage
1:34:41
again not of this word in absolute singularity of one, but
1:34:46
of oneness in unity is the word that's chosen to be used here
1:34:49
and one of the most famous, you know, introductory verses aside
1:34:52
from his introduction to Moses of being I am.
1:34:55
This is one of the most famous of God's personal introductory
1:34:58
verses, you know, to his people, which is the Shema and I hear we
1:35:03
have basically what is the title or word for God?
1:35:08
It's Elohenu and it there's there's three different uses.
1:35:13
They use the the same word twice and one of the other words for
1:35:17
that means God once. So so they basically say God
1:35:22
three times in this verse and then follow it up with basically
1:35:26
what saying he's one, but they say it in a way where it's
1:35:29
oneness and unity, not oneness in absolute singularity.
1:35:33
So even the structure of the Shema is very particularly
1:35:37
interesting in this regard. So in our instance, when we talk
1:35:42
about the word of God, we understand one primary thing.
1:35:46
The word is distinct to God. There is some sort of
1:35:50
distinctiveness to God, but it also is God.
1:35:52
This is John 1. One in the beginning was the
1:35:55
word. The word was with God and the
1:35:56
word was God. So this is an idea basically of
1:36:00
something that seems at our level of understanding
1:36:02
paradoxical. You know, it seems nonsensical,
1:36:05
but really it is paradoxical. It's a seemingly contradictory
1:36:08
truth, and this is what it revealed in the 1st chapter of
1:36:12
John. So this is how we reconcile the
1:36:14
idea that the word of God is uncreated and also is God, but
1:36:20
is also distinct of God now that we understand that.
1:36:23
And that's where the Trinitarian theology really functions very
1:36:26
well and explaining the nature of the Gospel and the scriptures
1:36:30
that we hold. However, in in the Quran side,
1:36:33
on the Muslim side, there is a little bit of a dilemma.
1:36:36
And part of that dilemma stems stems from the idea of what
1:36:39
really indeed is the nature of the Quran.
1:36:42
See, because the Quran to the to the Muslims, they will claim
1:36:46
that the Quran itself is uncreated.
1:36:50
Now that's a problem because only Allah is uncreated.
1:36:54
So if the Quran is uncreated and the Quran is not a law, now
1:36:59
there is a partner to a law, something distinct of law,
1:37:02
something separate from a law. And this leads to a bit of a
1:37:06
philosophical quandary as to how to explain the existence of
1:37:10
something that is both uncreated and not a law.
1:37:13
So where the Christian Trinitarian system explains this
1:37:17
very cleanly and concisely. And Islam is a bit of a
1:37:20
challenge to explain the nature of the Quran in relationship to
1:37:25
the divine who is the only one who is uncreated.
1:37:28
So that's my whole kind of nature of the gospel and the
1:37:32
Quran type thing, if that clears it up at all.
1:37:36
I hope I kind of got that out as cleanly as I could.
1:37:40
Now that sounded clear, Daniel. Did you while you were getting
1:37:43
here? It looks like Fruit Loops, I
1:37:45
guess, is what you're eating. Did you hear what Mr. Smokey was
1:37:49
asking? Yeah, I mean, it's fantastic.
1:37:52
I mean, Smokey is such an art, such a person with this
1:37:56
language. You know, he has this promise of
1:38:00
language, articulating language. He did it beautifully.
1:38:03
Like, I mean, I couldn't talk for that long on that subject,
1:38:06
but I I heard him and I want you to respond to him while I finish
1:38:10
my lunch and I'll get in. All right.
1:38:12
Go ahead, please. Well, I I'm a Christian.
1:38:14
He's going to. He's going to digest both his
1:38:16
food and my argument. But I would like to, Brett, I
1:38:22
would like to hear from you. What do you think about all
1:38:25
these things? You know what's what?
1:38:26
He said, I'm, I'm on the same wavelength when it comes to the,
1:38:30
the nature of God and, and how he works and how the, the Bible
1:38:34
is the word and all this and through him and all this.
1:38:38
As far as the Islam concept that he pointed out, though, that is
1:38:42
very interesting. I hadn't, I hadn't actually
1:38:45
thought of it this way and that's why I was hoping you'd be
1:38:48
able to respond on that. I get you snarfing down some
1:38:51
food over there. Your belly's hurt and you're
1:38:53
hungry and all that, but this was really more of a concept for
1:38:57
you, Brother Daniel. Excuse me, I'm munching on my
1:39:06
food. I am, I am listening.
1:39:09
I'm just going to mute for a second, guys, but I am
1:39:11
listening. I just, I'll be right back.
1:39:13
I am listening though. OK, I think Smokey really did a
1:39:19
very marvelous job in in laying that out.
1:39:23
I did not hear the initial bits. I was in the I was in, I was in
1:39:27
the bath. So I didn't hear what he
1:39:29
initially said, but I kind of get get a sense of what he said.
1:39:35
That is the debate about is the is the Quran created word of God
1:39:41
or it's uncreated? And I'm aware that people talk
1:39:46
about a debate and going back to medieval times when early
1:39:50
Muslims have the subject conversed.
1:39:54
And I recently thought about it. I did not know why early Muslims
1:40:02
even if about if if a group of them.
1:40:05
I kind of decided that it was uncreated word of God.
1:40:09
Like, I wouldn't actually have that view personally, because I
1:40:15
know the origins of the Quran were very much historical and
1:40:22
even the doctrine and the council in the Quran was very
1:40:28
relative to the events that took place in the middle of the 7th
1:40:32
century. So there were a lot of
1:40:35
characters that prompted the words of the Quran.
1:40:40
So the words of the Quran obviously came about in the
1:40:46
purview of those characters playing their part in that part
1:40:52
of the world, and therefore it had to be.
1:40:55
In just just real quick, real quick, just to check real quick.
1:40:58
You do live in America, right? Sorry.
1:41:02
You do live in America, right? Just checking real quick.
1:41:04
I don't, I don't. I live.
1:41:08
I live in Australia. OK, you're good.
1:41:11
OK, you're fine. I just, I just want to make sure
1:41:13
because in some places in the world, if you say the Quran is
1:41:16
created, they will kill you. I just.
1:41:17
I just wanted to double check. So, you know, just just before
1:41:21
you were kind of maybe going down that road.
1:41:23
I just wanted to double check for your sake.
1:41:25
I love you, brother. I don't want you to have a fat
1:41:27
one. Yeah.
1:41:27
So you know, I'm just saying so. No, I don't necessarily see why
1:41:34
extremists should have a free run the way they do.
1:41:39
They cause a lot of damage to religion and God, but you can't
1:41:44
help it. But yeah.
1:41:46
So my opinion is the Quran were the words God Almighty
1:41:52
communicated prompted by some of the actions of the of the of the
1:41:59
people in 7th century in Arabia. And that's precisely why it had
1:42:02
to be in Arabic because God was communicating to them.
1:42:06
If God was communicating to Hebrew people, he would
1:42:08
obviously communicate in Hebrew language.
1:42:11
But if God was communicating to a different people, I think
1:42:14
Noah, we don't know what Noah's language was.
1:42:17
So whatever that was, God obviously communicated to Noah
1:42:20
in his language. And I think people, Daniel,
1:42:27
prophet Daniel himself in Babylonian, in Babylonian
1:42:31
captivity was speaking Aramaic, even though Arkadian was the
1:42:40
lingua franca in the court. I think Aramaic just I think, I
1:42:47
think it was the transition. I think Arkadian was limited to
1:42:50
the court activity and then people just spoke Aramaic as the
1:42:54
lingua de franca. I think the biblical prophecy.
1:43:00
You just checked it. You do recognize that the Quran,
1:43:03
the actual Quran, what the Quran actually is, is more than just
1:43:06
what's in the pages, right? Or do you think that that that
1:43:10
is its entirety? I think the Quran is the recite,
1:43:18
but it's basically a recital that was given to Prophet
1:43:21
Muhammad, right? So he, he, those were the words
1:43:24
that were. No, no, I get that.
1:43:26
But like when we talk about like the word that is the Quran, like
1:43:30
is it where Allah like there's more to it and just we just got
1:43:33
a piece of it. Like there's more that's out
1:43:35
there to like angels and other and you know what I'm saying?
1:43:38
Like there's more out there that we didn't receive.
1:43:40
You get what I'm saying? I understand what you mean.
1:43:44
So there's a concept in the Quran called the Umul Kitab, the
1:43:48
mother of the book. So the mother of the book
1:43:50
contains a lot more information like it.
1:43:53
It basically documents everything that happens on
1:43:56
Earth, for example. So all the documentation of all
1:43:59
the activity on Earth gets documented.
1:44:02
And this book is preserved with the angels, like, you know,
1:44:07
wherever they are stationed in this celestial space, they are
1:44:11
the ones who do the record keeping of the deeds of people,
1:44:15
the events, the changes that they have to bring to earth and
1:44:19
all of that sort of stuff. Everything that happens to the
1:44:21
earth, who's born, who dies, all the records of planet earth are
1:44:26
kept by angels and the law primarily.
1:44:31
Once God made human beings, he he drafted a law for them.
1:44:35
Like he also made it an instinct.
1:44:38
So IA facet of that is found in every human being.
1:44:42
Like we have conscience, so that conscience is a facet of God's
1:44:47
law for human beings. So inherently we know what's
1:44:51
right and what's in what's wrong and the law at the law itself.
1:44:57
Like obviously from more than knowing wrong and right, there
1:45:04
has to be a sudden doctrine with which people conduct themselves
1:45:10
by. And this doctrine is found also
1:45:13
found in that book, like Omul Kita, for example.
1:45:15
And it's the same source that all which the angels always use
1:45:20
to communicate to Noah, to communicate to Abraham and the
1:45:24
other prophets before Abraham. I'm sure you know, I'm aware of
1:45:30
the fact that the Bible jumps from Noah to Abraham directly.
1:45:35
But in the Quran you also have these other nations that that I
1:45:40
call interim nations between Noah and Abraham, whom God also
1:45:45
communicated to. So every time the spirit came
1:45:48
and communicated to the prophet, so it referred to the same
1:45:52
source, the mother of the book. So it the Angel would bring
1:45:56
information from that book and give it to people.
1:45:58
Obviously, the Angel would do the translations because the
1:46:01
Angel is aware of people's languages and the Angel would
1:46:04
translate, refer to that source and translate that to the
1:46:09
prophet because the prophet had to speak in the tongue of the of
1:46:13
its people. So that's how we get the same
1:46:16
message but in different languages.
1:46:20
And even now when I go back to the Quran, I can see the shreds
1:46:24
of Hebrew directly in the Quran. So even when the story when God
1:46:29
introduces to Moses yehey usher, Yehey I am the one who I am for
1:46:34
example, so it comes in the Quran in this fashion in the an
1:46:39
Allah it says indeed I am the the real God.
1:46:43
So Allah is just the word for the God in, in in the Arabic
1:46:48
language. So the I am Anna is still found
1:46:52
in the words when God spoke to Moses Anna in the Anna Allah, so
1:46:57
it says indeed I am the real God.
1:47:01
So, so I can see how the Angel would bring in information from
1:47:07
the same source and communicate that to prophets in their own
1:47:12
respective tongues, because the prophets have to then educate
1:47:15
their people. So that's why we find
1:47:18
revelations being given in different languages to different
1:47:21
people. And obviously the mother, the
1:47:24
mother of the book is a reference, but a lot of the
1:47:27
dynamic that's related to its people in a historical context,
1:47:34
it's still coming. Like how do you say this
1:47:39
impromptu, impromptu giving, impromptu directions from?
1:47:46
And the Angel is capable of doing that.
1:47:48
So upon the orders of God, whenever God orders the Angel,
1:47:51
the Angel would come and give specific guidance prompted by
1:47:55
God upon the direction of God. So that's why it's called the
1:48:00
Word of God, because the Angel is an agent of Almighty God, and
1:48:04
when he brings the word, that's God's word.
1:48:07
So if that makes sense, I don't. I don't subscribe necessarily
1:48:10
to. So is your idea that basically
1:48:18
Allah's speech is a non existent until he instantiates it in
1:48:26
reality? Like until he puts it in
1:48:29
reality, the speech doesn't actually exist.
1:48:38
You can say so other than what's in the source.
1:48:43
The source, the mother of the book, has a basic doctrine
1:48:47
outside of the is that. Uncreated.
1:48:49
Is that uncreated? No, it is created.
1:48:53
When he is created. When human beings were created,
1:48:57
obviously if I say I am speaking so I can make my speech, we can
1:49:03
say that I'm creating my speech. There's no wrong in it, but I
1:49:09
can also, it's not something that I have like for example,
1:49:16
what I mean to say is I can continually create my speech,
1:49:21
unlike if I created, say for example, planet Earth and planet
1:49:25
Earth is created and it's there and it's seized.
1:49:30
But my speech, I can continually create my speech, right?
1:49:33
So I can, I can continue to perform my speech, but once I
1:49:37
create planet Earth, it's created already.
1:49:40
So in that way, I would segregate creation from
1:49:43
performance. So I would I would consider
1:49:46
speech as the category that belongs in performance rather
1:49:49
than creation. So to me, if I would like to
1:49:53
articulate to you the the title of the debate where the Quran is
1:49:57
a created article of God, I wouldn't necessarily agree with
1:50:05
the title like I can, I can, I can still debate it and I can
1:50:09
clarify my position of what it what creation means and what
1:50:13
performance means, if you know what I mean.
1:50:18
I think so I just, I'm I'm a little confused, I guess in
1:50:21
terms of its IT, in terms of its relation, in terms of what its
1:50:25
nature actually is, in terms of its eternality.
1:50:29
I guess I'm a little because like in in and I don't know how
1:50:33
this really works, maybe necessarily in Islam.
1:50:35
I haven't looked into this particular part of the
1:50:36
philosophy too much. But like in Christianity, you
1:50:40
know, our God is timeless, which means he, he has no chronology.
1:50:44
There's no contingency of time space upon him.
1:50:48
So his in his mental operations, his speech is unique only to him
1:50:54
because there's no chronology to it.
1:50:56
So like when you and me talk, there is a linear progression to
1:51:00
our speech. We start in a place, we end in a
1:51:03
place and it is, you know, ultimately leading to a point.
1:51:06
It's very linear and it progresses with time, but God is
1:51:09
time less. So it's not directly 1 to 1
1:51:12
correlative in terms of his speech.
1:51:15
So what you have, when you have the pages of the book, when you
1:51:18
have the Quran, you have what was given to Muhammad, you have
1:51:21
basically what is an energy, an instantiation, a manifestation
1:51:26
of what already exists. Because otherwise you have a God
1:51:31
who basically is coming up with it as he goes.
1:51:34
You almost have a very open theist type God, you know, that
1:51:37
doesn't really know the future. And I, I mean, are you an open
1:51:40
theist like it? Am I maybe missing the mark here
1:51:43
or? No, I'm not at all confused.
1:51:47
I think there's a few things different things that to
1:51:49
accommodate. For example, you I would say
1:51:53
when God made the planet earth, that was the creation of God and
1:51:57
we know this creation of God has come in time, even though we
1:52:01
have we relate to an eternal God.
1:52:04
So God is eternal, right? But that does not mean his
1:52:08
creation is also eternal or had to be eternal, no.
1:52:13
No, no, yeah, that's not what I'm saying.
1:52:15
No, I'm not talking about that because that's centered in
1:52:17
reality. I'm talking about like, let let
1:52:20
me reframe it. His decision to create reality.
1:52:24
See, there was see, like in terms of him being a timeless
1:52:28
deity, there's never a point in time where he what he was
1:52:33
deciding or had not yet decided to create reality because he's
1:52:36
timeless. So that thought in his mind to
1:52:39
create reality is a timeless thought.
1:52:41
There's no beginning to it. There's no end to it.
1:52:44
It just it just is just is. It's just, it's a, it's a
1:52:48
decision that just is I. Disagree with that premise.
1:52:51
I disagree with that premise. Well, then you'd have to
1:52:56
associate some sort of time space to God if you if you do
1:53:00
otherwise, because because now you need to give them some sort
1:53:02
of chronology. I mean, God is a being right.
1:53:08
We understand God is a being right.
1:53:11
I'm a being right. So I can, I can speak new things
1:53:14
in the future, which for example, I have, I might not
1:53:18
have contemplated them today. That does not undermine my being
1:53:24
or my powers. So I can articulate new speech,
1:53:29
say after a year that in any way does not undermine my
1:53:34
capabilities, my powers and my and who I am, my being, my
1:53:38
essence, that does not contradict or or.
1:53:43
Daniel, Daniel, Daniel. I think if I'm wrong, correct me
1:53:48
Smokey, I'll or I'll try to hit it from a different angle.
1:53:52
Do you believe that whenever God thinks something, it becomes it
1:53:56
is reality? It just that simple.
1:53:59
Just by the mere thought, God makes things reality.
1:54:05
There is a difference between God's thoughts and God's
1:54:12
intentions of bringing things into reality.
1:54:20
I'm all ears, Sir. Means you agree with me.
1:54:26
It means I need to hear more. I need some elaboration.
1:54:35
Smoke, you want to say something before I I begin talking?
1:54:38
No, no, no, go ahead. No, I I'd kind of, I'd kind of
1:54:40
hit my, you know where I was at with it.
1:54:42
I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out because here's my
1:54:46
issue is like to me, anything OK, just to be like like really?
1:54:51
And I'm not trying to make a this so like I'm not trying to
1:54:53
be like aggressive or assertive like a beyond measure here in
1:54:57
any way. But like, this is to me like
1:54:59
teetering on a dangerous edge of shirt, like in terms of like
1:55:04
associating Allah a little too closely and his speech with the
1:55:09
speech of, of, of mankind, like kind of saying that he
1:55:13
experiences mental States and attributes and chronology, just
1:55:16
like his creation, I think is dangerously teetering on that
1:55:20
edge of shirk. And that's what I'm trying to
1:55:22
kind of like get at here. Like in terms of just getting
1:55:25
around kind of this idea of your belief in a God that either is
1:55:30
basically trapped to some form of chronology or is time less.
1:55:35
I guess that's where I'm struggling here.
1:55:37
So how? How do you think it will?
1:55:40
It's tantamount to shirk if we if we were to attribute
1:55:46
chronology to God, Well, not in. His being.
1:55:50
Not in his being, but in his creative abilities.
1:55:54
Not in his own creation, but in his creative abilities to come
1:55:58
in, in a format of in a framework of chronology.
1:56:02
How do you think that is tantamount to shirk?
1:56:04
I don't. I don't understand this.
1:56:06
You're saying he has. You're saying he has abilities
1:56:10
that are created like he has attributes that he creates about
1:56:15
himself that are non eternal. Well, I don't.
1:56:21
I don't necessarily say that. Daniel Daniel sounds a little
1:56:25
bit like the. I believe the word is
1:56:28
anthropomorphic. Is is the issue I'm hearing?
1:56:34
No, I I don't. I don't really understand why
1:56:38
you are tying those things up. And if God does certain things
1:56:45
in the future, how does that? How does that to to even to have
1:56:52
an idea of God is doing something new which he hadn't
1:56:55
planned before? How is this idea tantamount to
1:56:58
shirk? Can you explain?
1:57:00
Well, so well, because the idea is that like, well, do you
1:57:03
believe that Allah is timeless? Yeah, I do.
1:57:09
OK. And, and I would believe you
1:57:12
would, because I think that's pretty core to, and pretty much
1:57:15
all the schools, I thought, as far as I know with Muslim
1:57:17
teaching is that he is timeless and, and spaceless and mature.
1:57:20
I mean, well, I'm not going to get down that road of the, the
1:57:23
leg and the foot and the arms and all that.
1:57:24
But anyway, whatever the you, you in a general concept, you,
1:57:28
you embrace the idea that he's timeless.
1:57:30
This means that if you were to associate any type of
1:57:34
chronology, because time is a physical creation, so it's so
1:57:40
it's not of him, it it's not part of him, it's not something
1:57:44
he's tied to, it's something he created.
1:57:47
So when you associate him with it or give him a chronology,
1:57:51
you're now taking part of the part of his creation time and
1:57:54
associate it directly with him as a partner, saying he's tied
1:57:57
to it. You know that he now experiences
1:58:00
time the way his creation experiences time in a linear
1:58:03
fashion. That's what I'm saying.
1:58:07
So if if God experiences time the way humans experience time
1:58:14
in in our reference frame, in the known material reference
1:58:20
frame for example, how is that? Still, and by the way, and just
1:58:25
so you know, he can't. I mean, it's philosophically
1:58:27
incoherent. It's actually an infinite
1:58:29
regress. You get to know.
1:58:30
You get to where creation never exists.
1:58:36
You can't, you can't have him actually apply to time because
1:58:38
then he stretches back in a linear time state indefinitely.
1:58:42
And we never get to the point where he actually creates
1:58:44
creation because it's like, it's like, if you're, it's like if
1:58:48
you're standing waiting in line to get movie tickets and you
1:58:51
have an infinite number of people in front of you, when are
1:58:54
you going to get a ticket? Never so that.
1:58:57
That's why an infinite regress is completely incoherent.
1:58:59
And that's why, like, if you attribute a linear time space to
1:59:02
God, that's what you're left with is an infinite regress.
1:59:08
But how can you even exclude the idea of God creating us in the
1:59:14
space of time? Well, because his decision is
1:59:17
non, non temporal. And I know here's the thing.
1:59:21
This is where a lot of people, especially in Christian on
1:59:25
history have got muddled up because they really try to
1:59:28
overly conceptualize this. And again, God is
1:59:30
transcendental. We're never going to fully,
1:59:32
completely bring his nature down to our level to be fully
1:59:36
understood. It's just impossible.
1:59:38
You know, he's beyond us. All we can go off is what he's
1:59:41
revealed about himself. And if it seems paradoxical,
1:59:43
even, well, we just, we go with it, you know, if it doesn't fit
1:59:47
at our, you know, level here on earth, that's where we're
1:59:50
supposed to take his word that this is the case.
1:59:53
It's kind of like, it's like, let me give you another example.
1:59:56
Like you know what a tesseract is.
1:59:58
Have you heard of that before? It's.
2:00:04
OK, it's, it's basically a fourth dimensional object.
2:00:08
And if you could like, I'll try to, I'll try to give you a
2:00:10
picture. You could actually pull it up,
2:00:12
you could type it in real quick. Tesseract is basically, and this
2:00:14
isn't, this isn't Marvel Universe stuff, guys, calm down.
2:00:17
OK, I'm talking about the actual thing here.
2:00:19
This is kind of a theoretical object and it's a fourth
2:00:22
dimensional object. And what it is, to kind of put
2:00:25
it simply as I can, it's an object that is in all of its
2:00:30
states of flux at the same time. So like if you picture a box and
2:00:36
you open that box, each stage of you opening that box and
2:00:40
unfolding that box is all existing in the same time and
2:00:44
space. It's a fourth dimensional
2:00:46
object. It's called a tesseract.
2:00:48
It's kind of how we imagine how like, you know, a higher
2:00:51
dimensional, you know, relationship to objects and
2:00:54
things like that. It kind of work.
2:00:55
So so we come up with this idea and it's a tesseract.
2:00:57
So, and you can see how hard it is to really describe to
2:01:01
someone, you know, this 4th dimensional object in a way
2:01:05
that's really coherent. And that's just kind of
2:01:07
basically one, one layer of reality above us essentially, or
2:01:11
however you want to put it. So this, this idea is to, to
2:01:16
present the idea that if you, if it's so hard to kind of
2:01:18
communicate, you know, these higher level concepts, these
2:01:21
higher dimensional concepts, how much more so to communicate the
2:01:24
grandest sensity that exists beyond all of them.
2:01:28
So, so in terms of relating God too much to reality, we make
2:01:33
massive faux pas. And in the Christian Church,
2:01:36
these is this is generally where heresies came from.
2:01:39
You know, people couldn't accept the idea of the hypostatic union
2:01:43
of Christ being fully man and fully God.
2:01:45
They had to come up with things like, you know, what is it
2:01:47
Nestorianism, you know, and things like that, trying to
2:01:50
divide his nature or, or you know, other different heresies
2:01:54
where they're trying to remove the concept that is flesh or
2:01:57
make it seem like it's it's God in a flesh suit.
2:01:59
Or they're always trying to seemingly over differentiate,
2:02:02
overanalyze, you know, the bring God too far down to this level
2:02:06
to demand him to be understood by simple means.
2:02:09
And that's generally, traditionally whenever the
2:02:11
church is flagged A heresy, whenever people reach too far to
2:02:15
overly define God, people found themselves in heresy because we
2:02:19
can only relate to God analogically.
2:02:21
He's not like anything in creation.
2:02:23
So when we point to something or we're referencing God, we can
2:02:26
only say God is kind of like this.
2:02:28
We can never say he's exactly like this, and if you're doing
2:02:32
the thing or you're saying he's exactly like this thing, then
2:02:35
that's shirk. And I see that done with Muslims
2:02:38
all the time. By claiming that the nature of
2:02:40
personhood has to be identical to the nature of humans
2:02:43
personhood, I see that also as qualifying as shirk.
2:02:51
I mean, I think you're sort sort of conflating the concept of
2:02:58
shirk. Basically let me tackle shirk
2:03:01
and give you an impression of what it is.
2:03:04
I'm I'm sure you know it right? But what I don't.
2:03:08
Well, I understand it's associating a partner with the
2:03:10
law. Saying anything is exactly like
2:03:13
law. Yeah.
2:03:14
Yeah, exactly. So in, in, in human reference
2:03:16
frame, we have to relate to God as a unique being who, who is,
2:03:26
who is our creator and who is our provider.
2:03:30
So we don't have any necessity to have an alternate deity other
2:03:35
than the one to create a God. So any, any, any mix up here in
2:03:43
this area would be shirk, right? For example, So if God, if God
2:03:49
would say I'm one God and someone would object to it and
2:03:53
say no, I can have an alternate God, that intention would be
2:03:58
amounting to shirk, right? That decision would be amounting
2:04:01
to shirk. So that decision of that person
2:04:04
would be shirk, right? For example.
2:04:07
So that that is how shirk can be defined.
2:04:09
But from what I listened from you so far, is the idea that God
2:04:19
cannot conceive a new plan. For example, you're.
2:04:26
You're telling me that would also be equal?
2:04:31
To yeah, yeah, it would. Because now you're attaching
2:04:34
chronology to him and he doesn't know the future.
2:04:36
You'd have to adopt some form of open theism because if he knew
2:04:39
the future, he'd be able to plan for it.
2:04:41
He wouldn't have to change his mind.
2:04:42
It's non temporal thinking. Yeah, this is where this is
2:04:45
where I have my objections. Why would you bring in such a
2:04:48
limitation to God that God cannot conceive new ideas in the
2:04:51
future? Well, no, it's, it's, it's not a
2:04:54
limitation. It's actually the opposite.
2:04:57
In fact, if he, if he needed that, that would be the
2:04:59
limitation because that would mean he doesn't know the future.
2:05:01
That's the limitation. Your, it's your position that
2:05:04
brings a limitation. Mine accepts his omniscience and
2:05:07
understands that he knows the future.
2:05:08
And if he knows the future and then he can plan for all
2:05:10
variables. So in fact, I'm a Mullinist.
2:05:13
So I believe in all three types of God's knowledge, free
2:05:16
knowledge, necessary knowledge, and middle knowledge, especially
2:05:19
middle knowledge. So I know he he can, he can know
2:05:22
the future. Not only does he know what will
2:05:24
happen, he knows what would happen if different things
2:05:27
happened. OK, this is a fantastic
2:05:31
conversation and I got the substance from you right now to
2:05:35
think about it and to come up with my with my language.
2:05:42
Language. No, not, not so much rebuttal at
2:05:44
this point in time, but I want to be able to recollect language
2:05:49
in my brain, to be able to articulate my opinions, yeah.
2:05:52
No, that's cool. Yeah, I'm good with that.
2:05:53
No worries. Because you should always
2:05:55
remember I'm not English person. I'm not an English.
2:05:57
Person. No, that's why.
2:05:58
No, no. I'm respectful of that, man.
2:05:59
I'm not some, you know, I'm not going to come at you sideways
2:06:01
like that. It's fine.
2:06:02
No worries. Yeah.
2:06:04
So we'll meet tomorrow. Tomorrow is Thursday.
2:06:08
Yeah, we'll meet tomorrow the same time.
2:06:11
And I'll do some, I'll do some preparation and we will, we will
2:06:16
talk about this fantastic Smokey.
2:06:18
It's been wonderful chatting to you today.
2:06:20
And also fantastic bread. And, and yeah, we will see you
2:06:25
guys tomorrow. Until then, God bless you, bread
2:06:28
and God bless you, Smokey. And we'll see you tomorrow.
2:06:31
Godly. Have a good day guys.
2:06:34
You're going to be open, Sorry. Bread.
2:06:38
Well, I was going to ask Smokey if he plans on opening up
2:06:40
something. Yeah, OK.
2:06:44
So yeah, Brett, it was wonderful chatting Brett and looking
2:06:48
forward to talking to you tomorrow.
2:06:50
And I would, I would want, I would want, I would want to also
2:06:54
listen to your views on this subject, OK.
2:06:59
Right. You want me to throw out
2:07:03
something for you to think about while you're absorbing what's?
2:07:06
Mostly sure, I'll I'll. In the meantime, I'll finish my
2:07:08
lunch. Go ahead.
2:07:11
When you're thinking about the Quran, do you believe that it
2:07:13
was an afterthought of God or do you believe it was pre planned
2:07:17
before the creation of humanity? Something to think about.
2:07:26
Just let me know what your thoughts are.
2:07:27
Tomorrow I'm going to let you consume that along with your
2:07:30
fruit loops. I'll talk to you later.
2:07:32
Now go ahead and say something. You wanted to say something.
2:07:34
I was listening to you. I was putting myself on mute and
2:07:36
listening to you. Well I I I did I I said
2:07:39
something to think about. Do you believe that the Quran
2:07:43
was an afterthought of Allah or do you believe it was pre
2:07:47
planned before the existence of humanity?
2:07:49
Gotcha. OK, OK, I'll.
2:07:53
And with that, I guess I'll jump out of here so you can sit down
2:07:57
your show and I'll talk to you tomorrow about it.
2:07:59
All right after you've had time to absorb.
2:08:02
Yeah, fantastic, fantastic. And I would also want to get
2:08:09
from you guys biblical references on which you build
2:08:13
this philosophy. All right.
2:08:15
Interested to see what biblical passages that you're coming up
2:08:18
with to build this philosophy. Well, he was explaining to you
2:08:24
the dimensions as well as the fact that God is timeless.
2:08:29
But we can get more into that. We can elaborate into it later
2:08:32
and all that. I don't want to hold you up
2:08:34
because you said you had something you had to do and
2:08:36
we've taken up an hour on you. Yeah, that's fine.
2:08:39
But I'm I'm I'm keen to look timelessness and omniscience.
2:08:44
We understand these are these are philosophical concepts, but
2:08:48
to sort of idealize a case for God's operations, I would want
2:08:54
to have a biblical reference to work with.
2:08:58
You know what I mean? So we cannot, we cannot build an
2:09:02
A doctrine out of no scriptural direction.
2:09:10
Right. Well, I'm sure that Smokey, on
2:09:12
the point that he made to you, I'm sure he's got a lot of
2:09:15
different ways to hit. It for.
2:09:16
You on that? I'm sure he'll be prepared
2:09:19
tomorrow whenever you guys have your discussion for sure.
2:09:23
All right, well, it was nice talking.
2:09:25
Nice talking to your brother. God bless you and we'll see you
2:09:27
later. So our guys, God bless you all
2:09:33
and we'll meet you tomorrow. How do I stop this and stream?