Latest / The Downbeat / PERIPHERY: MISHA AND MATT ON OBSESSION, COMPULSION, AND THE LONELINESS OF ‘A PALE WHITE DOT.’

Transcript

PERIPHERY: MISHA AND MATT ON OBSESSION, COMPULSION, AND THE LONELINESS OF ‘A PALE WHITE DOT.’ · The Downbeat

0:00
What's up guys? Welcome back to the Downbeat
0:02
Podcast. My guests on the podcast this
0:04
week are Matt Halpern and Misha Mansour of Periphery.
0:09
Much requested. Bunch of legends, close friends.
0:12
We talk about the mental struggles and themes that led to
0:16
the creation of their new album, A Pale White dot, as well as the
0:19
insurance and outs of the music industry, business money,
0:23
success, not success, AI, the future, and much more.
0:28
They sent me A Pale White dot early and it's incredible.
0:31
I would probably say one of, if not their best.
0:34
You can check it out on three dot recordings right now.
0:38
Before we get started, I want to let you know we have a
0:39
patreonpatreon.com/the Downbeat. You're sick of hearing this,
0:43
right? But I need your money so I can
0:44
do more stuff. Guess what?
0:45
I upgraded the memory cards. You could have a 5 hour episode
0:48
now if you want. Who do I have to thank for these
0:51
five hour episodes? It's Patreon.
0:53
You get early access to merch, you get ad free episodes, you
0:56
get early access to episodes. It's well cheap.
0:59
It's just helps me. It helps this run, right?
1:02
Simon Simon's got his work out and I need to pay him.
1:05
patreon.com/downbeat. Please consider checking it out.
1:09
We also got clothes. I try and speed this up as much
1:12
as possible. It's really good St. wear.
1:15
It looks like metal, but it ain't metal.
1:17
Well, it is, but it's a podcast. But is it a podcast?
1:19
Is it a brand? It's all custom made.
1:21
You're not going to get any much better than this anywhere, I
1:24
promise you. Everyone says it.
1:26
Everyone tells me how good it is www.thedownbe.at.
1:31
So it's spells down me. I stumble my own words because I
1:34
didn't say it in the same cadence.
1:36
Anyway, please check it out. Maybe even more than ever, this
1:40
episode has brought you by the wonderful people in Neural DSP.
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neuraldsp.com use the code downbeat.
2:16
It's Misha Mansour and Matt Halpern of Periphery on the
2:21
Downbeat podcast. Periphery two of.
2:36
Two of. Welcome.
2:38
Thanks for having me finally. What's such a fucking awkward
2:41
way? It's good to be bad.
2:42
I'm putting my phone in my pocket.
2:44
Let's try it again. Let's try to get.
2:45
Let's do. It, Let's do it.
2:46
Sorry, no, we're not doing it again.
2:47
I wanna do it again. Fucking do it live.
2:50
Let's do it. Again, No.
2:50
We're doing it live. We're keeping actually, Simon.
2:53
Simon, just tight. Tighten it up, leave me, dab it
2:55
in. Nope.
2:56
Done. Is this is this well?
2:58
First time in person but is this my 3rd or 4th I can't remember.
3:01
Think it's third. Yeah, think it.
3:03
You did like one in 2019, two other ones.
3:07
Yeah, this was before video. Oh no one I've won.
3:10
And yeah, you haven't done video.
3:11
No, we haven't done video. You look exactly the same as
3:13
2018. Such a like a youthful looking
3:17
band. I'm so tired.
3:18
It's because we don't really fight, I think.
3:20
Yeah, maybe the music keeps you young.
3:22
Look at you we've. Got questions about fighting?
3:24
Actually, we'll talk about it. Not that I've even heard
3:27
anything, but I have. I have questions about it.
3:29
Would you like to unleash the beast beast every time?
3:32
I can't say unleash the beast. Unleash the beast.
3:36
Unleash the beast. Ready Nisha was moaning that he
3:39
wanted a coffee luckily. Yeah, but I'm a fiend, so I
3:42
opened it and I got yelled at. Cheers.
3:44
Gnarly gnarly like the Java monster.
3:48
I have never had this before. Let's get.
3:49
Sugary. Good water, That's nice.
3:54
I heartily endorse this event and or product.
3:58
What What's your go to coffee order?
4:00
What would you what would you have got if you got to a coffee
4:02
place? Depends on where I'm at.
4:04
Where were we yesterday? Dude, we went to, we were in
4:07
Austin, we went to Proud Mary. Never been yes.
4:10
Titus Nautilus grinders there. If I see that and I see a
4:13
barista hustle auto comb, I order an espresso.
4:16
OK if they can do a good espresso I'll order an espresso
4:20
but most places can't do a good espresso so I'll get like a
4:22
cortado or something and if they ask me what size I want my flat
4:27
white I'll order a cold brew. That's a great move.
4:31
Australian people obviously know this.
4:34
I saw something the other day where someone says Australian
4:36
guy came into my work and asked for a large flat white.
4:39
Yeah, that should be like illegal.
4:42
Yes, yes, straight to jail. I've had like rose from there
4:45
before that are fantastic. I ordered a a cold brew or what
4:50
was it a? A Nitro.
4:53
Cold, a Nitro, cold brew, Yeah. And then flight.
4:55
I got a flight, a pour over flight.
4:57
Great move. Here's the thing, though.
4:59
I thought, like, you know, when you get a flight, typically it's
5:01
like smaller amounts. Yeah, full, full, probably about
5:05
250 millilitres per. Woah, he got 4?
5:08
So it was 4. Well, and the size of that Nitro
5:11
cold brew was like 2-2. You had the equivalent of like 5
5:14
coffees. I didn't, yeah.
5:16
I couldn't finish all of it, but I did a a pretty good job and it
5:18
was fantastic. You know what?
5:20
I no, because you know why? Because I had breakfast, that's
5:23
why. And I almost got a flight of
5:24
espressos and I changed that the last minute because I didn't
5:27
want to be like because I know what I get like.
5:29
I like it when they do a flight. This is about music, by the way,
5:32
but we're talking about coffee. I like it when they do a flight
5:36
and it is one of their espressos, one of their pour
5:40
overs, and then like mystery third drink, if they have like a
5:42
special madcap does that, Is that right?
5:46
Grand Rapids? Yeah, one in Detroit as well, I
5:48
think. We were there.
5:49
You you went there, didn't you? Why were you in Austin yesterday
5:52
and now you're in Nashville? Doing these listening parties.
5:55
We're doing these listening events for our new album.
5:58
Is there one here? Tomorrow.
6:00
Tomorrow. It's there.
6:01
Did you genuinely not know? That I didn't know that.
6:04
I assume you were doing like some GGD shit.
6:06
No, no, no, no, no. We're here to do that because
6:09
this album is so different and it's very personal and whatever
6:11
we want to do something kind of different.
6:14
We've never done anything really like this before.
6:16
And you know, I don't know, maybe you're noticing this as
6:18
well, but everything's getting kind of thrown back and
6:21
everything's a bit more analogue these days, right?
6:24
So I feel like these in person appearances, these these kind of
6:27
connections are going overwhelm. What's the setup like?
6:31
Earn chairs on stage, essentially at Guitar Center.
6:35
They're all a Guitar Center. They're all like Guitar Centers.
6:37
So there there's five major cities across the country.
6:39
It's. I wish.
6:40
None of that I wish. No, none of that.
6:43
They're giving. US beneficial arrangement.
6:45
Yeah, I mean, they're, they're, you know, they're giving us a a
6:47
forum for, they're giving us a place to do this.
6:50
And there's obviously a built in audience with us in there.
6:52
So it's, it's a pretty easy combination.
6:54
But no, I mean, we're sat on this stage and then you have
6:58
chairs in the audience and it's RSVP only limited seating.
7:02
But it's free, which is why also we're not getting paid because
7:05
we wanted to make these like, free events.
7:08
All 5 of you on stage the album but I he's in full.
7:12
No. Well, yes and no.
7:14
So we intro every song, OK, we explain what it's about because
7:19
each song is this is a very personal album.
7:22
It's these, these songs have very sort of deep meanings,
7:24
maybe in a way that songs didn't have on other albums.
7:27
And we, we explain that before we play the song and then
7:31
afterwards because especially because these songs tend to be
7:34
kind of heavy content wise lyrically.
7:37
Like we, we talk about production, maybe like add a
7:40
little levity because you can't just have it be dark the whole
7:43
time. And then we just run through the
7:44
album like that. Yeah, tell a story or two and
7:46
try to lighten the mood a bit. Kind of like a podcast.
7:50
A little bit. Like a live.
7:51
Podcast, except no filming or recording of any kind.
7:55
The one part you forgot to talk about is how awkward it is
7:59
sitting on stage. While the song is playing my
8:02
instinct was like, that sounds horrible.
8:04
And yeah, but you know what? It's, it's at the same time
8:06
it's, it's really good, like data observation in a way,
8:10
because you're watching people's first time responses to these
8:13
songs. And you can kind of look around
8:14
the room and see if it's, you know, a shared response or you
8:17
know who likes what. And it's, it's, it's good.
8:19
It's good information. The thing, the thing I think I
8:22
wasn't ready for is it's one thing to show like you friends,
8:27
people you like your music, you're excited and you show
8:30
them. It's like there's a vibe and and
8:31
whatever. It's completely different
8:33
showing a room with strangers, and I didn't fully anticipate
8:37
that. So on stage, are you like, also
8:41
like nodding your head or Yeah, you just like, no.
8:44
I'm like looking at my feet. Pull your phone out or not.
8:47
No, no, no, no, no, no. Live in the moment.
8:49
You just have to. Just sit there there.
8:51
That is fucking my worst nightmare.
8:53
You. Had an analogy on like a, a, a
8:56
recent podcast where you said like you pissed your pants and
8:59
you had to sit in it. I was thinking about that on
9:01
stage the other day. I was like, this is exactly what
9:03
we've done and I'm just and I have to just sit as still as
9:06
possible and pretend I have and pretend I have.
9:08
I'm pissed my pants. That's what it's like for 12
9:10
songs. I don't mind it as much.
9:12
I'm fine with it. No, I mean, it's again, because
9:14
it's, it's, it's cool to see the actual responses from people,
9:18
you know, the genuine reactions. And when I see it, like
9:23
yesterday, there was this, there was this guy sitting in the
9:25
room. He had his little dog with him,
9:26
which I felt bad for the dog because it was so loud.
9:28
But I mean, there were songs where he was literally crying,
9:30
like tearing up, seeing that as a reaction.
9:34
It was a great sort of reinforcement of like, OK, you
9:38
know, this, this stuff matters. We had another kid tell us that
9:40
like that. We, I don't, we don't need to
9:43
get into it, but just people giving us these fans.
9:46
No, no, no, no, just just that. Just that it's a sobering
9:49
reminder that that even though to us, this stuff is what we do
9:53
every day, you know, people tell us how much the music matters to
9:56
them. And it's cool to have that
9:58
experience. So I I enjoy in a way sitting
10:02
there and kind of seeing those those emotions.
10:05
And then the people ask you questions or.
10:07
You, yeah, we have like AQ and A at the end, yeah.
10:09
Yeah, because I thought you just did Chicago for some reason,
10:13
because I missed you by one day. I think I was.
10:15
I was like, oh shit, I'll go to that.
10:16
We haven't gone yet. We haven't been to Chicago yet.
10:18
Might miss you by one week then. There you go.
10:20
Yeah, we're there. I only saw that one.
10:22
You got a fucking kick. Whoever's ass is promoting these
10:25
because I only saw Chicago. Gotcha.
10:27
Well, yeah. Guitar Center, Where's the
10:29
guitar? Center how many you do it?
10:30
5 So it's we did LA and Austin. Tomorrow we have Nashville,
10:36
Monday's Chicago and then New York City.
10:38
Flying, Yeah, Business class. Southwest.
10:42
We're in Peru. Southwest.
10:43
Today. Southwest working flights all
10:47
week, so flights are like on my mind, yeah.
10:49
Yeah, not the same. And they're double the price
10:52
that they should be, so that's fun.
10:53
Iran, baby, everything. I need new memory cards.
10:56
Went to order them, everything's up.
10:58
It's worth it though. Iran and AI.
11:01
You know that's worth it too. We sound old talking about this.
11:04
No, and people hate. AI, you know.
11:05
Well, no, no, I'm just talking about the prices of everything.
11:09
We just, we're, we're old men. That's the old guy podcast.
11:11
How do you feel about AI? It's the fucking worst man.
11:17
I deleted ChatGPT because it pissed me off so much because I
11:21
you know, I saw a meme about how it would convince me that
11:23
there's two Rs in the word strawberry and I'm like surely
11:26
that wouldn't happen to me. And then it did and they gas lit
11:28
me into telling me that it only had two Rs while writing it with
11:33
three Rs. And I was like, this is a
11:35
microcosm of everything that's wrong with this.
11:37
And then I delete this. Like vote with your wallet.
11:40
It's a problem like it just goes off.
11:43
What's the most commonly People mostly search for how many Rs
11:48
are in the Berry part of strawberry.
11:51
So all of the data is being fed is that question.
11:54
So it goes OK, the answer is 2. But my problem is, unlike before
11:59
where you just got regular misinformation, now you have
12:02
this confident voice gaslighting you into being like, oh, I know
12:05
why you think that, but actually This is why it only has 2RS.
12:09
And yeah, great. So that's funny with strawberry,
12:11
but then with anything that's actually important,
12:14
schizophrenic it sounds. It sounds like you're getting
12:17
legitimate information and now you believe something that is
12:20
completely untrue and you will repeat it with confidence.
12:23
I don't like that. I think there was a
12:26
schizophrenic man who was talking about or like young boy
12:31
who was talking about the his parents being aliens and shit
12:37
like that, that went and stabbed one of his parents or something
12:40
because it it was going like you're right to question that.
12:43
It is kind of strange that your dad brushes his teeth twice a
12:46
day. That's definitely alien
12:48
behaviour. Crazy person is reading that and
12:51
going crazy respectfully. This person is reading that and
12:55
oh fuck they are aliens that go kill them.
12:58
What about in music? That's that's, that's where I
13:01
especially hate it. That's right.
13:02
And, and let me be clear, I think there's like certain
13:05
things where it's cool, like in an assistive fashion, right?
13:08
Like it's good at saving time where you take data and collate
13:12
it or, or organize it or aggregate it in some way.
13:14
Like that's just OK. You could do this, but it will
13:18
do it faster. We had systems for that.
13:20
And this can do it more efficiently.
13:21
You want to take it to an extreme example, like like, like
13:25
stem separation, right? Like it does stem separation
13:28
better than most algorithms. That's fine.
13:30
You're taking existing stuff, You're creating stems.
13:32
But generative AI sucks that shit.
13:34
That shit. Absolutely.
13:35
I could swear it. Yeah, of course it's fucking C
13:39
word really isn't that bad. That's worse than the F word.
13:41
Hate speech, you can say. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck fuck.
13:44
What if it's the name of a guitar company?
13:46
Called. I don't think you.
13:48
Do it's a person's name. We went easy and it was used on
13:52
the album. But we're going to be trusting
13:55
AI algorithm to pick that word up.
13:58
They're picking up vulgar slang for females.
14:01
Nuts. My friend Andreas made me a
14:04
guitar. Beeper every time.
14:07
Good guitar is it? What's your shape like?
14:08
Incredible guitar. It's like a Dick.
14:10
It's the no, no, no, no, no, no. It's just the dude saying he's
14:13
German. Probably just means friend or
14:15
something, I don't know. And it's the greatest acoustic
14:18
guitar of all time. It's the Mike Dawes signature
14:20
model. I don't know what that means.
14:21
Bro Mike Dawes. I don't know who that is.
14:23
Come on. Who's great guitar player?
14:25
Who's Mike? Dawes, you know what?
14:27
Who's Mike Dawes? Incredible finger style
14:29
guitarist like like acoustic. Yeah, that's, there's no drums
14:34
on it. Yeah.
14:34
So he's the. He is the drummer, yeah.
14:36
He's. Always one of those.
14:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know the guy.
14:40
Yeah. You know his name?
14:41
He's he's, he's like you. He's from England.
14:44
I'm actually Scottish. But he's Scottish.
14:48
I have an English accent. I have an English accent, so.
14:51
London's the capital of both. It's not.
14:55
See what I do? See what I deal with every day.
14:58
It's not. How is that?
14:59
How's your band dynamic? Great.
15:01
I've got like quick fire questions like it's great.
15:03
I'm going to get into that. Yeah, it's.
15:05
It's good, It's good. It's good.
15:07
We're good. All right, help.
15:09
We broke the ice enough. You want to talk about this
15:11
album? We want to talk shit some more.
15:12
Let's talk shit. You want to talk shit?
15:14
More talk shit. We'll go straight some shit,
15:16
straight to talking shit. Yeah, All right, let me get some
15:18
shit out. It's good to see you.
15:19
I just like hanging out with you.
15:20
Man, it's great to see you. I wish I had long.
15:23
I mean I got a long amount of memory.
15:25
Back to the fucking AI RAM conversation.
15:27
Well, the last time you saw each other was when you were fucking
15:29
with his computer. Remember that.
15:31
People don't know that that was real.
15:33
The GGD, yeah, when I that was real.
15:35
Didn't didn't recover. I know you didn't get any of
15:37
those files back. No, that was.
15:39
That was my concept and then your script.
15:44
It was my script. Your script, my concept, your
15:46
script, yeah, delivered by and then who did all the like little
15:50
things that I was deleting. If you don't what we talk about,
15:52
I did a plug in for GD Yeah GD the downbeat.
15:57
You shouldn't have it by now. Joe Hamilton did those.
15:59
Yeah, it was just really good. Yeah, yeah.
16:02
Nailed the Tim and Eric vibe. That was good.
16:05
That was a good one. Unsurprisingly.
16:07
So your acting was actually very good though.
16:09
Really. Yeah, he is a good actor.
16:11
Me and Dez have so much fun making any all the skits.
16:14
That's just kind of like the treat that is, you know, part of
16:17
GGD for me and. Him.
16:18
I like the fact that you do that though.
16:20
Like just don't take, like not take.
16:23
Obviously it's very serious product, but don't take the
16:25
content seriously. Yeah, what's that?
16:28
You got to have fun. Co owners gnarly dead. 4 of you
16:34
went in depth with it. About about like with gnarly is
16:37
it? And it's all equally split isn't
16:38
it? That's fucking cool.
16:41
Congratulations. Thank you passion projects man.
16:44
Speaking of, I do have a question for this.
16:46
I don't even have to look at my sheet.
16:47
You you like all got a million side hustles?
16:50
Too many. Not anymore you.
16:53
Still got like signature products though.
16:55
He's got children. Yeah.
16:57
Side projects. I don't have children.
16:59
Side hustles? Yes, they're a full time baby.
17:01
So if they make enough money for you, it can be a hustle, you
17:04
know, not like that. I feel like I've, I've
17:07
definitely tried to scale down and make things make my world
17:10
smaller so I can focus more on the things that I want to be
17:13
doing, you know? You don't, you know, it's like
17:16
you got a coffee company, correct?
17:17
See the bags under the eyes? I'm always tired.
17:20
I do, asleep last night. Everyone not only tells me this,
17:23
my girlfriend tells me this. Too many hobbies.
17:25
They're right. And then I get into new things
17:27
like I just. I just got into Magic the
17:29
Gathering, which is I don't know why I did.
17:31
That, well, you do not have the time to be doing that.
17:33
I know. What hassles you got?
17:35
You got coffee, you got neuro DSP plug in, you got a pedal
17:40
company, entire company, drum plug in, company periphery.
17:47
Also cradle technically. You're in Cradle as well.
17:52
How do you deal with that? It's AADD part.
17:55
It's AADD part. It's like I forget that I have,
17:57
you know, and it and you know what, you know what?
17:59
I'm sure, dude, we all, we all have to do a million things,
18:02
right, Because you can't just like be a musician anymore.
18:06
And then it just, you know, you, you focus on this thing for a
18:09
bit and you hyper focus on that and then.
18:11
The next thing I was going to say.
18:12
It's on blocks. You know, right, It's not like
18:14
every day you're doing all of the things full on.
18:17
You know, since you get those days.
18:19
You do get those days, but those days are are they can be
18:21
actually pretty fun because you know, you're just you're you're
18:25
focused your head down exactly. You're just you're in that flow
18:27
state with it. I don't know.
18:29
It's really satisfying at the end of those days, like, like
18:31
you're, you're, you're, you're, you're locked in and you're
18:34
tired. But at the end you're like.
18:35
That was a good day. I fucking, that was a good day.
18:37
I wonder what it is that is specific to progressive music
18:43
enthusiasts and musicians. It's this like side hustle, and
18:49
I hate calling it side hustle because it really is for me.
18:52
It's like, I love doing these other things.
18:55
I'm like, I can make a business out of this, and then I get
18:57
obsessed with doing that. But it really does crossover
19:00
into like the progressive music world.
19:03
I don't know why it it does that, like not to, to deviate
19:08
from what you're saying, but I think for for both of us, a huge
19:12
part of why we do all these things is because we get to do
19:14
with our friends. I mean, that's another.
19:16
That's a huge part of it. It's a massive part.
19:18
We get to work together on multiple projects, like working
19:22
with Dez, working with Nollie is, you know, it's my favorite,
19:24
one of my favorite things in the world to do is work with him in
19:26
any capacity. But there's so many other
19:29
interests that we share, such as coffee, such as food.
19:33
And we get to combine all these things.
19:36
You know, we go out to have a, a dinner meeting.
19:39
It's not just we're talking. And food is, you know, like just
19:42
there it is, like up. It's the, it's the main, that's
19:45
the main event. Yeah.
19:46
Hate to be a massive stereotype guys, but what I'm about to tell
19:49
you about is I think a weekend curated and designed
19:52
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20:01
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20:04
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20:07
Yeah, that Ohio State reformatory.
20:09
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20:13
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20:17
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20:20
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The historic, allegedly haunted prison grounds will play host to
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20:30
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20:33
They're going to be there. Possibly even more exciting than
20:36
that, though. More than 100 tattoo eyes from
20:38
around the country are going to be transforming the prison into
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the Monster Energy Tattoo Convention.
20:44
Any psychopaths looking to take home a permanent reminder of
20:48
their festival weekend can do so at the festival.
20:51
But please, Lord, clean it. You know what festival you're
20:55
like. If I didn't mention it was
20:57
haunted. They have an unparalleled scare
20:59
experience. You know those haunted houses
21:01
where people scare the absolute out of you, but they're not
21:04
allowed to touch you? I don't think I can't remember.
21:06
The Blood Prison offers more than just a walkthrough of a
21:10
haunted attraction. It presents a chilling encounter
21:14
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Be there when it all goes down. Go to incarceration.com.
21:27
I will see you there. Do you not like fight when
21:31
someone's not pulling their weight?
21:32
I've been very reluctant to bring other people into what I
21:37
do because I have a very specific way that I want it
21:41
done. And sometimes when I've tried to
21:44
get other people in, it's not done the way I want or they
21:48
don't pull their weight and then it blows up in my face.
21:51
We all work together very well and there's a lot of a lot of
21:55
time together in a lot of different sort of, you know, a
22:00
lot of experience together. I guess it's the best way to put
22:02
it. And I think we've all learned to
22:05
communicate with each other across those different
22:08
experiences, good and bad, to where now I think in every
22:14
different area that we work together, it's the same
22:17
communication, which is I think first and foremost, like any
22:21
good relationships, you have an understanding what team you're
22:23
on. So we all know we're coming from
22:25
the same place. We're all working towards the
22:28
same goal. Even if we have maybe a
22:30
disagreement here and there or somebody thinks we should do
22:32
this versus that we hear each other out.
22:34
And that typically is is where we can convince the other
22:38
person. OK, like, yeah, maybe it's not
22:40
something that IA 100% agree with, but it I see the passion
22:44
or maybe it is a better idea and we we don't, I don't think
22:46
anybody has an ego about like being right.
22:49
It's. My problem.
22:51
Well. That could be my fucking.
22:53
But that's the thing I mean, and and I think, you know, everybody
22:55
respects each other. So I think that's why.
22:57
I respect it's, it's like a band, it's about chemistry,
23:00
right? So like, it's not necessarily
23:02
that your personality type is, is good or bad or whatever, But
23:06
if you find people that you have good chemistry with.
23:10
And I, I think our shortcut was that, you know, we're in bands
23:12
or in projects together with that because you're not usually
23:15
supposed to like hire your friends or work with friends
23:18
because it could be very problematic.
23:19
But we sort of bypass that because we already knew we
23:22
worked well together. And then by extension, you know,
23:26
I, I think our, our values are also very much on the same page.
23:29
That's a big one. Like, let's say hypothetically,
23:33
you're starting a business with some friends and one of them is
23:36
kind of greedy or wants to cash out.
23:38
Like I could be very problematic when you start to make money,
23:40
but like it also eliminates entire conversations if you're
23:45
all, if you just know you're all kind of in it for the same
23:48
reason. It's like a passion project and
23:50
like, oh, let's just see where it goes and let's invest it in
23:52
ourselves. Then you avoid all these
23:55
arguments and it just becomes about the excitement and the
23:59
work and what what you're putting out.
24:00
So. Do you delineate when you start
24:04
these ventures, who's doing what?
24:07
Or is it just like, let's just go and then find out what works
24:12
best for everyone? That that was the nature of GGDI
24:16
think. I mean it, it started with two
24:17
of us, then it became 3, then it became four.
24:19
And we, I think at at least a couple of us kind of, we're
24:25
doing like we're all doing everything at one point.
24:27
And now it's definitely changed to specific roles.
24:31
You know, when you tour, you figure out pretty quickly what
24:34
it's like to work with somebody and live with somebody and you
24:36
see what people's strengths are and what the weaknesses are and
24:38
what annoys you and what doesn't.
24:40
And we all have toured together. We've toured with Dez, we've
24:43
toured with Nolly, who's in our band.
24:45
So it's, you just know kind of what works and people kind of
24:48
jump in where they can. And if there's something that I
24:50
can't do that I know Misha can, I have no problem being like,
24:53
hey, dude, can you, can you hit? Can you take care of this?
24:55
I always, this is a funny thing that I always say about Misha.
24:58
And this is a compliment. I'm sure you've heard me say
25:00
this before, but he's like Misha's like the Ron Burgundy of
25:06
making music or doing doing whatever the job needs to be for
25:10
GGD. He's like, OK, so let's say we
25:13
need a demo, right? We need a demo, a product demo,
25:16
song, it's or or. We need a video made with a
25:20
script. All I have to do is write it
25:22
down and give him the direction and it gets done.
25:24
Right. You mean the?
25:25
Teleprompter. The teleprompter.
25:27
Yes, I should have clarified. Yeah, how Ron Burgundy reads the
25:29
teleprompter. Whatever's on there, it's going
25:31
to get done. If you give him direction, he's
25:33
going to crush it perfectly. And it's just so reliable.
25:37
Thanks, man. Yeah, yeah.
25:38
I mean, it really is. So I.
25:39
Think you nailed it when you said like, you know, you've all
25:42
toured together. Like what are you on?
25:44
Is this the eighth album or the 7th album?
25:46
Like what is? This what is this?
25:47
Count as. Is that including a double?
25:50
Oh, this? We're getting into math here.
25:52
We'll call it 8. We'll call it eight.
25:53
Yeah, but like. But we've been torn together
25:55
since 2009, yeah. Yeah.
25:57
So you're going to work well together.
25:58
Yeah, I just start companies with random friends.
26:01
Well, I don't just hire a random friend, but.
26:05
Think about when you were starting a band.
26:06
It's like if you hire a random person, you don't know if it'll
26:10
work out or not, and sometimes it does, and then you keep them
26:13
and sometimes doesn't, and you got to find someone else.
26:16
It's kind of the same thing. You learn each others tendencies
26:19
too though. I mean there's there's still
26:21
like any relationship, there's still hard conversations.
26:23
There's little things that will annoy each other or little
26:26
things that piss each other off. But.
26:27
You've practiced that with fucking catering and the fucking
26:32
records and shit. Yeah, or week 3 of any tour.
26:35
Yeah, hell like. But you know what I mean.
26:39
Anybody looking to if if they're open to it to becoming more self
26:45
aware should go tour because you'll you'll get checked pretty
26:49
quickly if you're around people that that are willing to check
26:51
you. OK, real question then.
26:54
Could you just live off the money from periphery without all
26:58
of these side hustles? No, no.
27:00
Flat out no. No.
27:01
Not a chance. Even owning your own label?
27:04
No can I. That was the other.
27:05
One well, well, well, no and and I'm going to, I'm going to add
27:08
to that. That answer really changed in
27:11
the last like year, like really got a lot worse, Maybe maybe
27:17
even like year, year and a half. I mean, say my grand prediction
27:22
here as well. But like, I predict like a lot
27:26
of bands, a lot of bands that you love that you're like, oh,
27:29
these guys are all right, They're gonna call it quits in
27:31
the next like 2 years, two 2-3 years.
27:35
And, and here's why it is now a non viable business model.
27:41
The, the, the margins were already razor thin.
27:44
And then after the pandemic, I know you know this cost of goods
27:48
and services in a business, right?
27:49
What happens if they go up 10%, right?
27:52
Are you talking what goods and services?
27:54
I don't know. Buses, yeah, gas, anything's
27:58
going up. If it goes, if you have a
27:59
business model and that goes up 1015%, you're in a lot of
28:02
trouble. Well, it's doubled.
28:04
It's like the cost of a buses. Have your have your cost of
28:07
goods for merchandise. I was going to say.
28:10
I've gone psycho, I've had to go offshore for it because it's
28:15
crazy and then they tariff that. Now that then you get to so this
28:18
is what I'm talking about. And, and, and of course these
28:21
things don't happen overnight. And you know, we're talking
28:23
about like legacy acts and, and people that have seen success
28:27
like legit bands that are doing everything right and that want
28:30
to fight through it at every turn.
28:31
But any band that is relying now on on touring for income, which
28:36
is now the only thing left because what you're going to do
28:38
from streaming, come on. So that's, that's your last,
28:42
that's your last bastion for making money.
28:43
And now you can't make ends meet because you got to pay everyone
28:47
out. You got to pay your business
28:48
manager, you got to pay your manager, you got to pay
28:50
everyone. Else you got to pay the crew
28:52
that you possibly heart the amount of crew that you hired
28:54
in, you know, when money was a little bit better.
28:57
Exactly. And their rates are going up
28:59
because their cost of living is going up.
29:01
You're left whatever you're left with, you split with your
29:03
bandmates or if you're the only one you know, you pay everyone
29:06
out and then what? You have whatever's left and
29:08
then you hold back 40% for taxes.
29:10
This is not a way to support any sort of life anymore.
29:14
It was already rough before all of this, but now with the cost
29:17
going up, it's just non viable. We are fortunate to be in a
29:21
position where we have our other ventures so we can just, we can
29:24
just weather it and we're doing it for fun basically.
29:28
But like anyone that needs a tour to pay bills is going to be
29:31
like, hey, so the last three tours I didn't make enough to
29:34
pay my bills. I can't afford to do this.
29:38
And it's through no fault of their own.
29:39
They may even have seen their guarantees go up.
29:42
But because the costs have outpaced that, you now have an
29:46
insolvent business model. So that's my that's my really
29:51
crappy prediction. I mean, it's dark and it's on
29:54
the money in my opinion. Which sucks.
29:57
Yeah, I mean it's not my full time job.
30:00
My full time job is are the companies, you know, that's the
30:03
full time job. I'm like torn on if it's this
30:08
including AI and this is going to sound crazy whether or not
30:12
it's going to be a net positive or a net negative for music in
30:15
terms of the quality of music. Because I feel like for us in
30:19
our age bracket, it's going to be net negative of course,
30:22
because less people can afford to be musicians.
30:26
But like the amount of slop coming out with AI and the fact
30:33
you have to love music so much you're willing to do it for free
30:40
may create incredible music because you have to.
30:45
There's there's, there's a period of slop music that
30:50
predates the AI slop that we're going to get.
30:54
And around that you have people who are just making it to make
30:59
it. And not like the people who are
31:00
like, I'm going to start a band to make money.
31:01
And sometimes they do. They're going to drop off.
31:05
But it's going to be in there like the next generation's
31:07
hands. And it could go either way.
31:08
It could just go, everyone just goes.
31:09
I'm not doing that. I'm actually kind of bullish on
31:11
the future and like maybe even sooner than that.
31:13
Because the one thing about AI that that surprised me was I
31:17
didn't realize that there'd be so much of A backlash, like a
31:20
public backlash. It's I thought by now everyone
31:22
would be sold. Like when you think about how
31:24
the Internet was so easily adopted or the smartphone, we
31:28
kind of like accepted and never looked back.
31:31
But AI is like kind of a dirty word.
31:32
Like you'll see, like companies will stray from marketing with
31:35
it. Like they used to like put it
31:37
front and center and now they're kind of like, oh, maybe we and
31:40
we don't don't lead with that. And it's because there is public
31:43
backlash because it is negatively affecting so many
31:47
people. It's not kind of this just clear
31:49
net positive. I think that's because they went
31:54
for the arts first, which is in my conspiracy brain that is them
32:02
trying to get rid of quote UN quote high paying jobs that are
32:08
not beneficial for capitalism, like music.
32:15
Yes, it's quite lucrative, but like not as lucrative as the
32:19
other jobs that could have been easily replaced with AI.
32:23
And I think that's why people hate it rightfully.
32:26
But I feel like if it had been made the other way round and
32:29
they're like, OK, a is come out and now you don't have to do
32:34
your taxes because it goes through your bank account and it
32:37
does everything for you and it's by the book and all this stuff.
32:40
Then everyone be like AI sick. But the fact they came straight
32:43
for like here's a song in a movie made by a computer.
32:46
No humans involved. Like people hate it, rightfully
32:49
so, but I think there is prime example that you'll love.
32:53
I bought a car recently and I did use some AI to get the best
32:59
deal. Like I asked one of the fucking
33:03
AI things and before anyone gets on my fucking back, this is the
33:05
other thing. The Dirty word element of it I
33:09
think really should be for the generative.
33:12
Stuff. And taking jobs from people but
33:15
like to help the common man. That stuff shouldn't really be a
33:20
dirty word. The delineation is assistive
33:22
versus generative. Yeah, and that was assistive.
33:25
It was, it was collating data. It was aggregating data for you.
33:28
It's something you could have done, but it just saved you a
33:30
lot of time. And a lot of money like I typed
33:32
in, I was like, get me the best lease deal on this car in the
33:35
country. And it pulled up some random
33:39
like Long Beach, CA lease deal on this car.
33:42
And I went into the the showroom, he said, I want this
33:46
car, what's the best deal? I went through all the deals.
33:49
I like this is nothing. There's nothing.
33:50
And I went, what about this deal that I found on this?
33:52
And they were like, oh, let me go to the back.
33:54
Guy comes out, yeah, we can match that.
33:56
It was like fucking 1/3 of the price, right?
33:59
That shit's cool. Stop stealing art.
34:04
Yeah. But but here's The thing is like
34:05
what I'm noticing now is now there there seems to be more of
34:08
a premium than ever on analogue art or whatever you want to call
34:13
it. You're just seeing in general,
34:14
like people seem to be embracing instruments again, there there.
34:17
There really is like a bit of a push back because I think as
34:22
much as it is impressive for AI to generate these things, and
34:25
maybe that's why it's like such a impressive showcase.
34:28
I remember seeing a fully generated clip or like a a
34:32
realistically generated song, which in and of itself is
34:35
impressive because it generated it from nothing.
34:37
But neither of those things are things I would.
34:39
Watch. You know what I'm saying?
34:41
But creating something that is enticing and that's been created
34:46
maybe because it's by another human, like that's, that's
34:49
interesting. That's what people seem to
34:50
gravitate towards. And now there actually seems to
34:53
be a bit more of a premium on that in my opinion.
34:55
On Lo Fi. Lo fi, analog, whatever you want
34:59
to call. What's the French?
35:01
No, the French name. That's like grunge to me.
35:05
That happening and then popping off is it's the weirdest music
35:09
ever in there. Everyone being like this is
35:11
sick. But that's exactly what I'm
35:12
talking about. I think that I think everyone's
35:14
especially receptive to that because it's so anti.
35:18
It's like, hey, I could never be.
35:19
Hey, I would be like, that's not notes.
35:21
That's not the notes that we know.
35:23
It's not trained on that yet. Well, now it is, but you know.
35:25
I wish they weren't wearing masks though.
35:27
That's the only thing that my brain goes.
35:29
I want to believe this is a pushback on what music's become.
35:33
And then the other part of me is like, people just like it
35:36
because they're wearing fucking masks.
35:37
I'd say that if if the music wasn't so unique sounding with
35:41
it's like you don't need them, if they were wearing masks or
35:43
not, the music would still be like insane sounding.
35:46
You know it was. A Spencer that said the cat
35:47
comment. Yeah, he's, he was like, this is
35:50
what the inside of a cat's brain sounds like at all times.
35:53
Yeah. I honestly, it makes me think of
35:56
like, it makes me sad for the band Primus.
35:58
I'm a big Primus fan. I was like, Primus could have
36:01
been this band. They could have been the.
36:02
Aren't they like huge and cult? Yeah, but like.
36:06
They've had a good run. Yeah, bring him back.
36:09
I wish I'd left Stray before they were looking for a new
36:11
drama. I would have fucking.
36:14
I would have killed someone to be promises drama.
36:16
It could be the new brain. Exactly.
36:18
I mean, actually I don't even know who they got.
36:20
I'm sure he's very good. But I forget the guy's name.
36:21
He's very good. He is.
36:22
Very good, yeah, I forget his name.
36:24
I sent him an e-mail when it when it because they were doing
36:27
it as e-mail, like whatever, just because I already had the
36:31
straight and I wasn't really popular.
36:33
I'm pretty sure I sent Les Claypool an e-mail and it just
36:35
said, Hey, I really like your band.
36:38
I don't. I'm on tour.
36:39
I don't have the time to do a video.
36:41
But. Here's my YouTube or something
36:43
like that. Obviously didn't fucking go
36:44
anywhere, but now if that happened with no band Johnny, no
36:48
band over here, oh the fucking do.
36:51
You miss it. I think I do miss it.
36:53
I think I'm getting got to the point now with this is podcast 5
36:59
of 6 this week, six of seven, whatever.
37:02
I've done loads of podcasts. And obviously when someone's got
37:05
a show, we then also go to the show.
37:07
And slowly I've been like, God, I'm glad I don't have to do this
37:13
when I see everyone else. So setting up on stage and
37:15
that's slowly turned into like, God, I miss what that's like.
37:20
So I'm in the market. But back on our conversation.
37:23
I know it's a defunct model for business and I know all my other
37:30
business endeavours have done tenfold what they did when I was
37:35
in Australia because I've got more time to put into it.
37:38
But so I'm thinking I'm even going to do like a project just
37:44
for the love or a few of those. So like, I'd love to do
37:48
something that sounds like Opeth.
37:50
I'd love to do a black metal band.
37:52
Like stuff that I know is I know is not going to make any money,
37:55
but I will love doing it. Or a death metal band.
37:58
Or I'll take a fucking paycheck. Or I'll take like we need active
38:03
radio. Rock Band needs 5 grand a week
38:07
to go and not do that. It's literally only worth doing
38:11
those two things. Yeah.
38:12
Anything else is a waste of time.
38:14
Yeah. Either I've either service, you
38:17
know, the creative part, or get paid.
38:18
Yeah. And anything else is just some
38:20
weird compromise where you're kind of getting nothing.
38:22
So which I think is why Stray sort of broke up.
38:25
It's like we were very busy and all of us knew like being the
38:29
ages we are being, the size of the band has remained for the
38:33
last five years. It's like, well, this is.
38:36
Really, I feel like you guys were getting bigger.
38:38
Not here, the UK popped off but you you can't live off the UK
38:44
one UK Tory year. You know what I had a thought
38:47
going back to like even with GGD, the one of the, the, I
38:51
don't want to say the only, but one of the main reasons why it
38:54
works is because of the band and because of our fan base.
38:59
And I and I have a lot of respect for our fan base because
39:03
our fan base is comprised of people that are a lot like us.
39:06
They make music, they produce music, they work at home, they
39:10
make music at home. And if we didn't have that, I
39:13
don't know if we would even still be in this band because of
39:16
what we're saying. Like if we didn't have companies
39:18
that were generating revenue that could help to pay the
39:20
bills, we wouldn't be able to do the band.
39:23
So all of it feeds back into the support of the fan base who
39:27
were, who were willing to to take a a risk when we were like,
39:31
hey, here's this drum library. Hope you like it.
39:35
You know, so I mean, we owe a lot to them And and it's all
39:38
symbiotic. The band is.
39:40
Yeah, it's almost like the band is, I don't want to say unpaid
39:44
because you obviously do get paid, but the fact it's not your
39:47
main income, unpaid promotion for the other stuff.
39:52
At a time it yeah, in the beginning of the companies it it
39:56
really was. And now I think they're they're
39:59
delineated enough to where it is it, you know, everything kind of
40:03
can function on its own. But to get to that point, we
40:06
needed the the fans to support us and it's.
40:11
We're all very appreciative of that.
40:12
And I think it's, it's worth saying because it does tie back
40:15
into also why we still do what we do as a band.
40:18
You know, it means a lot to us to write music as a passion
40:22
project, but we are lucky to have a fan base that is, you
40:26
know, mature now in the sense of, you know, we've been doing
40:29
this for so long, but they support everything that we do
40:31
and we couldn't do it without them.
40:32
So we always say, I think periphery is at the center of
40:36
everything that we do out. Like when I think about like
40:38
when you're like, you guys have so much stuff going on.
40:40
I think about it and it's it's kind of like you have periphery
40:43
at the center and then all these prongs that go out from there.
40:45
But it's it's been the foundation for sure.
40:48
So I can't, you can't knock it. I'm not saying you were, but you
40:51
can't knock developing and then fostering a band.
40:56
Yeah. I don't know.
40:57
I think, I think the take away from this is like you kind of
40:59
have unfortunately you have to do it all and all in tandem.
41:03
You do, but, but you know, I don't want to discourage anybody
41:05
either. I think if you do everything for
41:07
the right reasons and then you you put out good quality stuff
41:10
for the people that support you, whatever that may be.
41:13
You put your energy and your time and your passion into it
41:15
and hopefully then they support you back.
41:18
Yeah, and you develop the skills.
41:21
Being in the band is like so good.
41:24
I think I gave someone else this advice recently when they were
41:27
like, oh, I just, my band of seven years just broke up.
41:30
Like, how do I feel like that wasn't a complete waste of time.
41:33
It's not a failure. It's like you forget, like in
41:35
those seven years you learn people skills.
41:38
It may be you were sorting out the merch.
41:40
You learn the price of goods and how that stuff works.
41:44
Like it's all being in a band is one of the most like
41:49
all-encompassing. Like I don't want to use the
41:53
word entrepreneurial, but like in terms of this, in terms of
41:57
like skills that you acquire, you acquire a bit of skill
42:01
needed for every single business on earth from just being in
42:04
about you just 10 jobs and sometimes it fucking sucks.
42:08
A lot of the times it fucking sucks.
42:09
You have to be open to that though.
42:11
There's plenty of people in bands that don't care or pay
42:14
attention to that stuff and they they do it for different.
42:16
Reasons I think or like a manager does it.
42:18
Yeah, yeah. But but if, if you know, if you
42:21
are, if your eyes and ears are open to that stuff, then yeah,
42:24
you can learn a ton. And it's all skills that apply
42:27
to not only anything creative, but I mean anything that you
42:30
want to do going forward. You never thought about, like,
42:33
managing bands? No.
42:34
Hell no. Yeah, I tried.
42:36
I tried it once and I was like no.
42:37
I respect the managers that are very good, yes, because they
42:41
have a certain resolve that I don't have as a person for one.
42:45
But two, just you're on all the time.
42:46
You have no breaks. You're you're just your own
42:50
call. It takes a very special kind of
42:52
person to be a very good manager and yeah, it's I have immense
42:55
amount of respect and I know that I could not, I would not be
42:58
a good man. And here's the other part of it,
43:00
you know, I think really good managers have that resolve.
43:05
The people that they represent that they work for don't have
43:10
that resolve a lot of times. So you're, you're doing all this
43:14
really hard work, sometimes menial grunt work for people
43:18
that don't always appreciate it to the same level because
43:23
they're just not on that same way, same wavelength.
43:25
So to me, it would be incredibly frustrating to do all this stuff
43:31
and not have everybody understand it fully.
43:33
However, if you're going to do that well, then you have an
43:36
acceptance and you have an understanding and you know,
43:38
you're kind of like the parent taking care of the kids and
43:41
making sure everything is, is going well.
43:42
But. One of my main things, other
43:45
than all of those points that you touched on was like, I can't
43:49
possibly, and this is like selfish musician and I'm coming
43:52
across bad here, but music wise, I cannot care about your shit as
43:59
much as I care about my own shit.
44:02
Like, so it, it's just my, my music is my baby and I will do
44:06
fucking everything to respect and promote and, you know, put
44:12
everything into that. And then if, if, if I was given
44:16
someone else's music to care for like that, I really wouldn't
44:20
even if I loved the band. Just something about like the
44:23
song being my baby. The ownership, yeah, you know,
44:26
this is this is also why I love your idea of you chasing your
44:30
passion projects, because now you got your setup, you have you
44:33
have enough stuff set up to where you could just rely on
44:36
this. And it could just be the hobby.
44:38
It could just be the passion project.
44:40
You can make the music exactly the way that you want it to be
44:43
and it will be sick as fuck. But the problem is I only play
44:46
the fucking drums. That's what it's like.
44:48
One of the most. Important with this motherfucker
44:50
you've got like. Yeah, but you, you have so many
44:53
people around you at your disposal.
44:54
You can learn. From, you know, everybody.
44:56
You know. Yeah, write me a song, guys.
44:58
You know what? That's not true.
44:59
You're not just a drummer. You do other things.
45:01
You do produce, you do have skills.
45:03
You work with Daws. You know a lot about cameras,
45:06
microphones, recording engineer, but that's like, that's
45:09
incredible skill. That's more than.
45:11
So can't riff though, can I? You can riff on the drums.
45:15
I take back everything I said, go on fucking SUNO wherever it
45:18
is. Like run me a blackmail riff.
45:20
OK so you you both have signature plug in products,
45:25
Multiple GGD? How many periphery kits are
45:29
there? The original P3 which is part of
45:33
that which. Is like yeah 45. 4-5 yeah, so.
45:38
And then you've got neural. DSP.
45:40
Yeah, DSP archetype. They've already watched the
45:42
fucking ad mention you every single fucking time.
45:45
Do these plug insurance make it onto actual records or are they
45:51
just in the demo process? That's the answer is yes to
45:54
both. The the new Periphery album is
45:58
entirely my plug in my my neural DSP plug in.
46:03
And part of the reason is I got the first working build of it
46:06
like 2 days before our very first writing session.
46:09
So obviously I was excited to use it.
46:11
I've been using the neural stuff to track in the demo phase.
46:15
And what's very convenient about that and if we can get like
46:18
nerdy for a second is just you record DI's, which you're then
46:23
editing. So then at the end when you're
46:25
going to reamp, you can like, you know, take that DI and run
46:27
it through a real amp. It's already edited, it's
46:29
already ready to go. So it's very handy.
46:31
And that's what we did on our last album on P5I.
46:33
I did it with the Omega amp and then reamped all those DI's
46:38
through my amp collection. But this one, I don't know, like
46:42
because we wrote the whole thing with it and it was so integral
46:44
to the sound and there's a lot of cool effects and and
46:47
whatever. Like when we went to try to
46:49
reamp, we ended up with cool stuff, but it it didn't suit the
46:52
vibe as well. Like like genuinely just the
46:55
plug in just sounded correct. So we just stuck with it.
46:57
It was a less work too, which is nice.
46:59
So that's that's the sound of the album.
47:01
So that those demo stems then went on the album or you retract
47:05
them so. This is an interesting thing, a
47:07
lot of the album is demo stems and I'm coming at this from 2
47:10
angles and I'm sure you might be able to relate.
47:12
Maybe people record to relate is when you're writing, like
47:16
sometimes there's an electricity, there's an energy
47:18
to it and you're you're kind of just so excited, like you're
47:23
maybe you're running through it, but like the you know, you're,
47:25
you're trying to get a decent take, a decent enough take to
47:28
get the idea across. And then sometimes when you go
47:30
to retrack it, that magic's like impossible.
47:33
It's like impossible and it's one of the most frustrating
47:35
things. You're like, this is better, but
47:37
I hate it. You know I'm.
47:39
Really glad we did that for this record though.
47:41
There's songs that we have on other records where I think the
47:43
demos, certain aspects of it were better. 100% this 100.
47:47
I wanted to get into MM. Hmm.
47:49
If this effects demoitis, yes. Which is.
47:52
No, this has been this has been our cure for demoitis.
47:54
Yeah, OK. And she's.
47:56
Using some of the. Demo I have a pro tip.
47:58
I have a pro tip. This is this is actually like a
48:00
cracked. It can you also explain demoitis
48:03
please? So demoitis is the the the
48:05
process where you are demoing a song, you're hearing it so much
48:09
and so many times before you actually record the thing that
48:12
it becomes how the song sounds, for better or for worse.
48:15
And then when you go to rerecord it and it invariably sounds
48:18
different, even if it sounds better, it sounds worse, if that
48:20
makes sense, because you're so used to hearing it, you've been
48:23
hearing it probably like dozens of hours.
48:27
It's not even worse sometimes. Sometimes it's just wrong.
48:29
It's. Just wrong.
48:29
Exactly like it's. It's.
48:30
It's hard to relate because you'll be like technically it is
48:33
better in every way, but it's just not, it doesn't sound
48:36
right, right. So so my trick and and I kind of
48:41
steal this please, because it works.
48:43
When we're writing, we always take like that extra minute
48:47
because you want to get through as quickly as possible, But
48:50
we'll take that extra minute to try to get like a halfway decent
48:53
take because the reason that you go and retrack it is because
48:57
you're like, oh, well, that was dog shit.
48:59
Like that sounds terrible and it's out of tune.
49:01
So we will like try once we're like, OK, I like that.
49:05
I'll take that extra second to like tune the guitar and get
49:08
like a halfway decent take. And then as a result, then we
49:11
did this on P5 and we did this on this.
49:13
I'd say probably like 80 to 85% of what's on the album is demo
49:17
takes, and we only really fix the really egregious stuff or
49:21
the stuff where I'm like, yeah, like this isn't, this isn't
49:23
going to cut it. And that has really, really
49:25
helped, genuinely. That's I thought you were going
49:27
to say something like scoop a bunch out of the master bus and
49:32
put it back in later on. I mean, I'll also say we are
49:36
very, very fortunate to work with Nollie and he's a genius.
49:41
He's there's a lot of very, very good mix engineers out there,
49:46
very talented ones. But what I like about him, I'm
49:49
not saying that everyone works this way, but he doesn't use a
49:54
template. He'll always start from scratch
49:55
and like the mix will often just start with a conversation
49:59
because like he wants to try to find find the sound of the
50:04
album. Like that's a sound that like
50:06
we're kind of all chasing and the demos will be reference
50:09
points for that, which is, which is very handy.
50:11
And like, I had many, many long conversations with him because
50:16
there was a sound that we were all kind of chasing with this,
50:19
with this album and. There were times where I had to
50:21
translate what you were saying to him in non-technical ways
50:26
that actually, I don't know if you know this, but it was like
50:28
the turning point. Yes, explain.
50:30
This is all very vague. You were saying there's a sound.
50:33
There's a moment. Hit me.
50:35
I wanted it to sound very big and I wanted to sound raw, like
50:38
I've always thought and all he did these extremely clean mixes,
50:41
like, like just these like technically perfect mixes.
50:43
And I like them. I was like, I actually want to
50:45
push you out of your comfort zone.
50:47
I want you to do a mix that's like unlike anything you've ever
50:49
done before. And I think the thing that the
50:51
mistake I made was I started to like related in technical terms,
50:54
like we need the the kick to be hitting these frequencies until,
50:57
you know, like, and I think I actually should have dumbed it
50:59
down and be like, I just wanted to be more bigger, you know, or,
51:02
or something like that. Yeah.
51:05
And this is something that he's explained to me that, you know,
51:07
he tries to get all the bands that he works.
51:09
With to this is. Nolly, yeah.
51:11
Like for him, you don't, it actually makes it harder for him
51:15
to translate what you're asking for if it is technical terms,
51:19
because a lot of times it it, it just, you know, it's all
51:22
relative. It doesn't really translate that
51:24
well. So if you can say, like this
51:26
particular thing that I'm thinking about was, you know, we
51:29
were trying to hone in this test mix and I was hearing what Misha
51:32
was saying and I was hearing what Nollie was saying.
51:33
I was like, hey, Nollie. I think what Misha is trying to
51:36
get across is like right now, you know, the mix feels as an
51:40
example, you know, it's if I'm in my car, I feel like it's kind
51:44
of behind my dashboard and it's kind of in the center.
51:47
I want you to widen it and make it so that it is like weighing
51:53
on my body. Like I want to feel the weight
51:56
of it on me. And he was like, oh, OK.
51:59
You Rick Rubin, this. Yeah.
52:01
And then he then he, he went, he did a mix.
52:03
And that was the one you were like, oh, actually, yes, I think
52:06
we can get there. Now we're in, we're a step in
52:08
the right direction like this is.
52:09
This is much more like what? Was it a different, difficult
52:11
mixing process? Actually, no.
52:14
Get get before we got there. Just the same song.
52:18
He's trying different mixes. Well, what we did is we did like
52:21
a test mix for because what we were going for was something was
52:24
like, hey, this is out of your comfort zone.
52:26
I don't really know who we would go to other than than Olly
52:29
because we're doing such specific stuff.
52:32
And I know that he's got it in him, but I just don't know
52:35
exactly how to relate it. Once, once we got that test mix,
52:39
it was like, OK, cool. So now it's just details.
52:42
So for mixing, Spencer and I flew to because Spencer's an
52:46
incredible mix engineer too. And and we flew to Bath to mix
52:51
with him in person. And then that was actually very
52:53
easy. Yeah, I mean, it was time
52:55
consuming, but it was very easy. It was actually a really fun
52:58
mixing session. Good coffee.
53:00
Yeah, they had. They had a lot of good coffee.
53:03
Like so the best porer I've ever had.
53:05
I'm just, I'm, I'm kind of smiling and laughing because the
53:08
whole time that this was going on that, you know, Misha and all
53:11
are communicating and trying to translate it.
53:12
He's, you know, we talk all the time.
53:15
He's saying to me like, I really think you guys should just
53:17
relax, like I'm going to nail this.
53:20
I know what needs to be done. I understand.
53:22
I don't think we need to do a test mix.
53:24
Just let's just do the mix and we'll nail it and then.
53:27
I get neurotic, I get very. I really yes.
53:31
Yes, well we, you and I both do it for different.
53:32
Reasons, but like, it's like, it's, I mean, dude, at this
53:35
point it's like I've got this entire vision in my head.
53:38
Yeah, and it's got to be this way or I'll die.
53:41
And like, it's I, I, I recognize like I always get this way.
53:44
I like know, I get this way, but it, it, it doesn't matter.
53:47
Like it's, it's, I'm just watching myself.
53:49
It's a superpower, though. It's a superpower again, that
53:51
way. That's the way.
53:52
That's why you are where you are.
53:54
I guess it doesn't feel like in the moment because it's
53:56
frustrating because I know I'm being like neurotic and
53:59
unreasonable and I know it's going to be, or I can like
54:01
logically tell myself, but I'm also like, this is the most
54:04
important thing in the world, which it's not, but it feels
54:07
like it. And so so then I start to like
54:10
drive him crazy and drive nolly crazy.
54:12
And I'm like, we need test mixes and we need this and we need
54:14
that. And now he's like, it's fine.
54:16
We'll get together. And of course he's right.
54:18
Yeah. And of course I know he's right,
54:19
but it doesn't. I just feel insane.
54:21
Yeah. But you know what that is,
54:23
unfortunately, the level. Let me just glaze you a little
54:26
bit here. The level of genius that you're
54:28
that that is, I'm sorry, is your life sentence.
54:33
Because once you lose that, that's it.
54:36
So unfortunately you all just have to put up with it.
54:39
And by this point, you know how to deal with it, obviously.
54:42
Yeah, yeah. I mean, at least now it's like,
54:44
I know the cycle. I just tricked myself into being
54:47
like, you'll be different next time, Stray.
54:50
Exactly the same type things. Everyone has their own neuroses
54:53
that happen when we record and then you get to the end.
54:56
Like fucking how? At least that's out of the way.
54:58
It's not going to happen next time.
54:59
And then it goes next time. Exactly the same loops.
55:02
To your point, it's cool to see how much everybody gives a fuck
55:05
about it. Yeah, that's why it ends up
55:08
being so good. For this record in particular
55:10
was just so dialed in and so just emphatic about every aspect
55:16
of it, and this was an example of that.
55:18
It's just one of many, many, many examples.
55:21
So. So you're using the drum plug
55:24
in. Obviously you're using drum to
55:25
to write, to write to write. And also to set the vibe to.
55:29
Set the vibe. So then is that then difficult
55:32
to get over the demoitis? No.
55:34
Because we we have Nollie. You have Nollie and Matt and
55:38
that's the plug in anyway. Yeah.
55:39
Yeah, it's like, it's like, just make it sound like that.
55:44
Did you record the drums in that studio that you recorded the
55:48
last plug in? Why did you?
55:50
Do P5. No P5 was done in is that.
55:53
Real world. In real world.
55:54
Oh, that was real world. Yeah.
55:55
Yeah. We we recorded in Baltimore,
55:58
Yeah, at a studio called Magpie Cage, which we did the first GGD
56:02
library there. OK, yeah.
56:04
So which version of GGD did you do the demos for this album?
56:08
MMC The Vibe. Yeah, modern and.
56:10
Massive too. Yeah, flagship.
56:12
But that was that was out. The kick drum on yours is
56:18
that's, that's your kick. That's like one of the best
56:21
captured kick drums. The kick on the GGD pack.
56:24
On the downbeat, one of the greatest kick drum sounds just
56:29
just ever. Do you know what's crazy?
56:31
I honestly and Gnarly agrees. I think it's the best kick
56:35
drummer I've ever heard. Like in the flesh and recorded.
56:38
Yeah. And normally, like, we're
56:39
talking about his dedication to everything.
56:43
He made me bring my mics for the kick when we did that.
56:46
And he made me my kit. Oh, to get he was like, I don't
56:50
know what you did, just do what you do.
56:52
Because when I sent him stems from my room before we even did
56:56
the plug in, he was like, this kick drum might be the best kick
56:58
drum I've ever heard. Yeah, kind of a fun fact is the
57:02
kit is actually all natural except for the kick, which we've
57:06
reinforced because it's a metal mix.
57:08
And the sample that we used is your kick drum because it is the
57:11
best sounding. It's the best sounding Kick drum
57:13
20. 4 by 14. Yeah, I don't know if you've
57:16
seen any of the comments from the first song that came out,
57:18
but people are just like, did you hear that kick drum?
57:20
Kick drum. That's a fucking great, great
57:24
little snip to have there. I mean, it's so you're on our
57:27
album. And to answer your questions.
57:29
To 2414. Pretty sick.
57:32
It's fucking yeah. They're just, they're just like
57:34
20. Fours are like harder to play,
57:36
you know? If you're Toms where you want
57:38
them, yeah. I I never found with a with a 24
57:41
by 14. This is my theory.
57:43
I some scientists can tell me if it's right. 24 by 14 is the same
57:47
amount of air as 22 by 16 to push.
57:53
So I've never really found the difference.
57:55
The tension of the head is kind of different, but I tune my
57:57
kicks fingertime anyway. I've never really noticed a
58:01
difference in the amount of effort I have to put in to play
58:04
a 24 unless it's like a 24 by 1820.
58:07
By 24. By 14 is like fucking.
58:10
I don't know if I've played it 2020.
58:11
Four. I don't know if I've played it.
58:13
Yeah. But it's 24 by 18.
58:16
It's it's challenging. It's because of, yeah.
58:18
Yeah, like at speed. Yeah, there's.
58:19
Some area, yeah, I don't think it's the area.
58:23
This is my my research. I think is the amount of air you
58:26
have to push to get the second head to react on 24 by 18 is
58:32
same as having a 22 by I don't. I don't use an 18 or 20 even my
58:37
kick is 22 by 16. Yeah.
58:38
Yeah. So yeah, probably.
58:39
For a similar. Reason, which is like really
58:40
like a standard. Try a 2414.
58:44
OK, I will. They also look really fucking
58:46
cool. It's really annoying to put your
58:48
racked on. Of course.
58:49
You play a 13. I mean, I have, but not lately.
58:52
I've been just playing 12. Yeah.
58:54
You might be alright then. But I'm tall too, so I can I can
58:56
have that height. That's not the big deal.
58:57
Yeah, you're fucking fine For me, I'm like, hello?
58:59
Yeah. But I do love the way it looks.
59:03
Big fan of the 24 by 14. This podcast is sponsored by 24
59:07
by 14 Kick drums. You got a signature snare,
59:10
aren't you? Was that going pretty good?
59:12
Good, yeah. I stopped making a signature
59:15
snare because I was making yours by accident.
59:20
Oh really? And it got to the point where
59:21
the specs were all done and the finish was going to be
59:24
different. The specs were done and there's
59:26
nothing out here like this. And then one of the guys that
59:30
was helping him was like, oh, the the man help him was pretty
59:33
similar. And I looked at it and I was.
59:34
Like fuck was it a 14 by 6? Did you have vents?
59:38
And I didn't but. Brass and all the all the.
59:40
No I the features the look was different, but the sound that
59:46
would have been created by what's your shell?
59:49
Brass. 20 What is it 1.5 can't. Remember.
59:54
There's a one. Mil, I think it's one, yeah.
59:56
Whatever I was working on was just like, this is just mass
1:00:00
drum, so I'm not going to do it. I.
1:00:01
Mean there's only so many combinations I've.
1:00:04
There's one out there. There's one out there that no
1:00:07
one's done, which is I'm doing. OK, good.
1:00:10
Then don't. Don't let anyone know.
1:00:12
I'll tell you off the record. Yeah, you could tell us off the
1:00:14
record. Oh, that's cool.
1:00:15
Oh yeah, I asked Pearl to make me a few snare drums that were
1:00:20
mine my all my specs with the exception of little bit
1:00:25
different hardware and then three millimetre brass.
1:00:29
They need to sell that. And that's what I that's what I
1:00:31
played on the record. That's what typically I tore
1:00:33
with live. Can't beat a three mil brass.
1:00:35
It's incredible. It is.
1:00:38
It so is it like the same shell as a reference and then which
1:00:43
would be your shit on it same. Shell hardware like the
1:00:45
strainer, all that stuff. Yeah, because I mean, I hit so
1:00:50
freaking hard. You do that.
1:00:52
I need, I need really beefy hardware on there.
1:00:56
But I also just have an affinity for 3mm brass shells and.
1:01:01
Everybody has. An yeah, it's just the best.
1:01:04
Yeah. But yeah, but there aren't a lot
1:01:06
of 14 by sixes out there. So we've talked about this, you
1:01:10
know, potential of of do we put out a limited run at some point?
1:01:13
Do we put out like a some kind of different version of it,
1:01:17
Maybe different colors, different, whatever, but I don't
1:01:19
know if it'll work. Two blogs black.
1:01:24
That'd be so hot. You know, when we first started
1:01:27
developing the syndrome a while back, it was all black.
1:01:30
It was 2 blogs. It was a free floater that we
1:01:33
were messing with. And then it had these huge like,
1:01:36
you know, one inch, 1 1/2 inch circles, vents around it.
1:01:41
But it was too similar to Abe Cunningham's there.
1:01:43
Yeah, which is a three mill brass 41 by 6, but.
1:01:46
The problem, the problem you know, you run into is you know
1:01:49
this the balance of like creating a, a really like top of
1:01:53
the line product, everything I possibly want and then making it
1:01:56
affordable, affordable for people that want to use it.
1:01:58
And that's what you have to think about that. 3 mill brass
1:02:01
ain't that affordable. No, but you know what, dude?
1:02:04
Back Guitar Centre yesterday, I went and went in the snare room
1:02:07
and I looked at my snare. It was $200 more than what we
1:02:13
originally listed it as because of what we were talking about
1:02:16
before. Yeah, and and also I can say
1:02:19
this, you can't because you're in their pocket right now.
1:02:21
But Guitar Centre adds a bit of money on.
1:02:23
I went in to look for my ride and it was like 100 bucks more
1:02:26
than retail. OK, well.
1:02:28
That's. Good.
1:02:28
They've got to make money, they've got to pay everyone cost
1:02:30
of goods. I need to get really drummy.
1:02:33
Other people love it. Funny thing about that Abe
1:02:35
Cunningham snare, They came out and then they disappeared off
1:02:39
the market immediately. I don't know if there was maybe
1:02:42
something wrong with them. I don't.
1:02:44
Know find one of them now. I remember when they were
1:02:47
testing them out because that, that was actually the the year
1:02:50
that we toured with them. And Abe and his drum tech had
1:02:54
like 3 or 4 different versions of them.
1:02:57
And he actually let me use them during our set a couple nights
1:03:00
just to see what they would sound like, see what they would
1:03:01
feel like. I was in the process of trying
1:03:03
to figure out what drum I was going to make and they were
1:03:07
incredible. Yeah, but, but I mean, they're
1:03:11
also really expensive. So who knows, Maybe they just
1:03:13
didn't. Sell well, no.
1:03:14
What I wonder is if they maybe underpriced it and then like it
1:03:18
was like not profitable by the time it was out or something.
1:03:21
I I asked for one. I was like, I'll buy it.
1:03:23
I don't care. And then we're like, no, these
1:03:24
aren't available anymore. I was like these came out like
1:03:26
last week. Kind of weird.
1:03:28
I like his concept. Is he?
1:03:31
I think they did. I think they did white pony on a
1:03:35
bell brass and they did. I might be wrong here.
1:03:37
And they did around the fur with a Orange County vented so. 40
1:03:47
ply. Yeah, so then he's just trying
1:03:49
to combine the tour. I mean, I was grilling him on
1:03:52
that tour. Oh yeah.
1:03:53
Because like, my own summer is like one of my favorite snare
1:03:56
sounds of all time, especially on the chorus, like how it cuts
1:03:59
through. And so I was like, hey, like,
1:04:02
what did you use? And I think I think he said he
1:04:04
used the 40 ply, but I was like, and how did you get that sound?
1:04:08
And he was like, still trying to figure that out today.
1:04:10
That's the magic he's like. And I realized it's just studio
1:04:13
man. It's it's just the, it's the
1:04:14
mix. You know, even they're chasing
1:04:17
that sound and that his live snare.
1:04:19
Man, I was like. Well, I I thought I hit hard.
1:04:23
He hits hard as fuck. He hits hard as fuck.
1:04:25
Yeah, he he, Him and Aaron Gillespie.
1:04:29
Yeah, insanely. Both of them throw their whole
1:04:32
upper body into their snare drum.
1:04:34
Crazy you and Aaron Gillespie are on minor hitting that hard.
1:04:37
You know what though? I didn't.
1:04:41
Cutting that. I didn't even know that he had
1:04:45
gone back. He was fucking in here, yeah.
1:04:48
And he was being real cagey with the conversation because
1:04:50
obviously I fucking everyone makes good symbols.
1:04:53
Like it's just a running fucking joke, but like we were talking
1:04:57
about it about being on children and he was real cagey.
1:05:01
And then like one day later, it announced final.
1:05:04
Well, I'm glad he's back. He was the reason why I started
1:05:07
playing model. Same but.
1:05:08
Those Warped Tour days with those, he just had a bunch of
1:05:11
giant ride symbols or whatever that what whatever it was.
1:05:15
The way he was hitting him, the way he sounded.
1:05:17
That was my introduction to model.
1:05:20
So it was cool, cool to see him back.
1:05:22
How many sig symbols you got? I have the double down stack and
1:05:26
then I have the crash ride I. Have a signature product.
1:05:30
You just you just make your companies for your signature
1:05:33
products, correct? Sort of.
1:05:35
I mean I have signature guitars and pickups.
1:05:37
I guess. Here's the thing, we have never
1:05:40
been like a merch band like for, for the equivalent size band,
1:05:44
they'll sell like triple the merch we do.
1:05:46
But we've always been able to sell gear.
1:05:48
So that's like that's been our way to to kind of make it work.
1:05:51
And yeah, we recognize that from a pretty early standpoint.
1:05:55
And so did companies like they kept sending us gear because if
1:05:58
they sent me something, then they would sell it.
1:06:01
And then eventually like companies were like, well, be
1:06:03
good to have them exclusively. I guess we got to get them paid
1:06:06
so. I love that you guys are a gear
1:06:07
band though, because I'm like a gear guy and that's why when I'm
1:06:11
talking about doing a passion project, like I want it to be
1:06:14
something like Prague and tech and gear related because I love
1:06:18
that shit. Yeah, yeah, I've, I've always
1:06:20
loved that stuff. Well, you have a plug in.
1:06:23
It's doing very well. Everybody loves it.
1:06:25
Is it? Has already found out the other
1:06:27
town pay my fucking tax bill and I was like it's fine.
1:06:31
GGD plays plays quarterly and then I like look at my contract
1:06:35
every six months. It's every six months.
1:06:38
I'm not doing good right now, guys.
1:06:39
I don't want to talk about plugins all day, but I could I
1:06:43
really could. We need to talk about your album
1:06:44
though, because you know people like that shit.
1:06:47
You're. Going to you're getting one of
1:06:49
the most exclusive interviews. This is at least the first time
1:06:54
that we have talked about it. We're not doing any traditional
1:06:58
press for this. Album Traditional press is
1:07:01
fucking dead. I'm doing all these Danny Wilma
1:07:04
festivals this summer, every single one of them.
1:07:06
I was like, who else is doing it expecting it to be like the
1:07:09
normal Billy's fucking. Live podcast.
1:07:12
Just backstage, got a room, just got a podcast.
1:07:15
And I was like, who else is doing it?
1:07:16
And they were like, we're revamping our press.
1:07:18
Like it's these four people including me.
1:07:21
And I'm like that's you are three years late, but that's
1:07:25
what to do. Well, this is it for us.
1:07:27
We haven't. We haven't talked to anybody
1:07:28
else. Yeah, you're getting the
1:07:30
exclusive. I know Mark has something coming
1:07:32
up, but it's going to be very few and far between and OK, you
1:07:35
know? Well, you've said some stuff.
1:07:37
I mean, I've got my questions here, but you've said some stuff
1:07:39
in this previous remark. Read my fucking questions,
1:07:43
right? Read my fucking questions.
1:07:46
I work very hard on these secrets.
1:07:48
Thank you. You said, you said it's really
1:07:50
very dark content matter. Yeah, I've listened to you.
1:07:53
I'm just fucking great. I've got thanks.
1:07:55
I've got some things I need to say.
1:07:56
Thank you. The fucking first track is the
1:07:59
Best Song you've ever written. Oh, really?
1:08:00
Yeah, absolutely. You know me, I have a little
1:08:02
blast beat and a bit of black metal.
1:08:04
You know whose idea the blast beat was?
1:08:07
Yeah, of course it fucking was. No, everyone would think it's
1:08:09
Mark because he hates Blast. Beat.
1:08:11
I know he hates blast beats but. It works and if it.
1:08:14
Works. It works.
1:08:15
Not to get ahead of ourselves, but.
1:08:17
Get ahead of yourself, no one cares.
1:08:19
One of the things that we tried to do for this record was score
1:08:22
it like from a cinematic standpoint, and we'll get into
1:08:25
what that means more more specifically.
1:08:27
But I felt like with the content of that song and what it's
1:08:32
about, we needed something that was chaotic and dark and
1:08:38
horrible, you know? And that fits it.
1:08:40
OK, before we go deep dive on the last beats, because I really
1:08:44
could do that all day, what's it about?
1:08:46
The album or the song? You can give it you.
1:08:49
Should start let's just we'll start from the B we've been
1:08:51
we've been fat and about we can we can get to business.
1:08:54
We'll lock in and get. Serious now?
1:08:56
Come on. All right.
1:08:57
All right. How's my hair?
1:08:58
All right, Great. Thank you.
1:08:59
So P6 is it? What are you doing minding?
1:09:03
My own business What? Are you doing?
1:09:05
You will produce it when you get up.
1:09:06
I think something's happened, Simon.
1:09:08
Leave it in. Go all.
1:09:11
Right. So yeah, let's just start at the
1:09:12
beginning. I mean, for a couple years we've
1:09:16
been talking about what we're going to do for our next record
1:09:20
and nobody was inspired by this idea of doing another like like
1:09:25
P6. You know, we've done it.
1:09:27
P5P4. We have those albums have
1:09:32
archetypes of Periphery songs. You want to hear the Mark song,
1:09:35
it's on there. You want to hear the Jake song,
1:09:37
it's on there. You want to hear the really long
1:09:38
Proggy one, it's on there. So I mean, the idea of doing
1:09:43
another record like that, we were all just like, no, like we
1:09:46
nobody wanted to, nobody was inspired.
1:09:48
And if we had tried to go down that road, I don't think we
1:09:51
would have a record right now. So, you know, we had just kind
1:09:55
of talked a little bit here and there about like, what do we
1:09:57
want to do? And it was very loose because we
1:10:01
really didn't have to do it yet. And then when it came closer to
1:10:05
a time frame where it was like, all right, now we need to buckle
1:10:07
down and figure this out. I started thinking about just, I
1:10:12
don't know, concepts, what the hell was going on in my life,
1:10:15
what was going on in, you know, what's relevant.
1:10:18
And we were on tour with Spear Box early 2025.
1:10:23
We were in Europe. I was there.
1:10:25
Yeah. Oh yeah, you were.
1:10:26
Can't really. That's right.
1:10:27
Yeah, I forgot about that. That's what I've got.
1:10:29
Sorry. Sorry to cut you.
1:10:31
Just forever ago. So yeah, on that tour we were in
1:10:33
Munich. Remember that coffee shop?
1:10:35
Yeah, the really nice one. So Misha and I were just sitting
1:10:40
there. We were shooting the shit about
1:10:42
what we, you know, what ideas we had.
1:10:44
And I just said to him, you know, I've been thinking a lot
1:10:46
lately about this concept of, of loneliness.
1:10:49
Because a lot of the stuff that I had been going through the,
1:10:54
the, the product of that, one of the products of, of what I had
1:10:57
been dealing with from a mental health standpoint was
1:10:59
loneliness. And I said to him, you know, it
1:11:03
would be really interesting to explore the different
1:11:07
perspectives of loneliness, you know, and when we started just
1:11:10
talking about the idea, like what, what, what part of the
1:11:14
human experience, maybe even not the human experience, you know,
1:11:18
produces loneliness. And we started talking about
1:11:20
that and how that could be a really cool idea for a record.
1:11:24
And Misha really resonated with it and, and I think felt that
1:11:30
too. It's funny because around that
1:11:33
time, right, right after that, I heard somebody talk about the
1:11:36
quote UN quote, loneliness epidemic.
1:11:39
So I felt like I, well, maybe this is something to, to focus
1:11:42
on, you know, anyway. And then as we were talking, I
1:11:46
was looking at this, you know, the tattoo of our logo, the
1:11:48
three dots. And it's our, it's the, the, our
1:11:51
label is called 3 dot recordings.
1:11:53
And you know what if we even change the artwork for the
1:11:59
record and we made it 1-1 dot, you know, instead of three
1:12:03
because it's. Lonely, lonely we.
1:12:04
Were talking about this idea of one dot and then he brought
1:12:07
something about the Carl Sagan. Yeah, the pale, pale blue dot,
1:12:10
like, you know that photo, it's like very, yeah, it's iconic.
1:12:14
It's got a a great quote and it's.
1:12:17
What's it a photo of? Of the earth, but like very
1:12:20
distant and it's just this faint little thing forget the exact
1:12:23
quote, but it's like kind of everything you know, of
1:12:25
everything in the past future all happens on this pale blue
1:12:28
dot. And I just thought like it's
1:12:29
beautiful, but it's also like one of the loneliest pictures
1:12:31
because it's like in the fastness of space.
1:12:33
So like that got me thinking like like that fits with a pale
1:12:37
white dot. We were, we were just talking
1:12:39
about like the grey dot, white dot and it just kind of came
1:12:42
together and it, it was weird. Like as much as that was just a
1:12:46
just kind of a random conversation, all of a sudden,
1:12:49
like we just started to have ideas and and you know, it was,
1:12:52
it was like a box started to form of like this is what it is
1:12:55
and this is what it isn't, you know?
1:12:57
There were there were parameters that were developed because of
1:13:00
that. And I think we also knew from
1:13:01
day one that we wanted to have like a, a North star of some
1:13:06
kind that that was sort of the governing body of what this
1:13:10
record was going to be. We wanted to have artwork right
1:13:14
away, like early on, we wanted that to help inspire the music
1:13:18
as opposed to the music inspiring the artwork.
1:13:20
Visuals were a huge part of of the writing process and I can
1:13:23
get into that. But we also, we had the title,
1:13:27
like just from that conversation, we both were like
1:13:30
that, that sounds right, that feels good.
1:13:32
And then we brought it to the other guys in the band and
1:13:34
everybody agreed. And from there we set some other
1:13:38
parameters, or at least I don't want to say parameters, we just
1:13:41
set some, some different goals. But I think in general, the
1:13:44
creative process was the creative guidelines were
1:13:48
established very early. What sort of parameters of goals
1:13:53
would you say? I think that without getting too
1:13:55
specific, because I don't know if we really, it's like we had
1:14:00
the stuff written on a on a whiteboard somewhere.
1:14:02
It was more just like, let's just let the songs be what
1:14:04
they're going to be, and let's not try to, you know, go down a
1:14:08
laborious path if they don't need to be.
1:14:10
But one thing, one thing to note is there, there was quite a bit
1:14:13
that we agreed on, like we were going to collaborate entirely.
1:14:17
So like, just just for reference, like album artwork,
1:14:22
album title aesthetics, like all that stuff is an afterthought.
1:14:26
That's why we have the dumbest album titles of all time,
1:14:29
because it's just like we got to, we got to think of
1:14:31
something. OK, yeah, it's that, you know,
1:14:33
and here we are. We haven't even written a a
1:14:35
single note. We have the album title.
1:14:39
We have a general concept for the album cover.
1:14:41
And we're already starting to plan that out.
1:14:43
We have a vibe. We're talking like, you know
1:14:45
what we should do? We should have pictures up.
1:14:47
I have ATV in my studio. We should have pictures up
1:14:49
there, like kind of showing imagery, you know, and we'll all
1:14:52
be there without exception. We're all going to work on
1:14:55
everything in tandem, Usually lyrics and all that.
1:14:58
Those are secondary. They they, they come like it's
1:15:00
like Spencer figure it out, right?
1:15:01
And then maybe we have some input here.
1:15:02
It's like, no, no, no, we're going to talk about what this
1:15:05
song is about and we're going to score it like cinematic.
1:15:07
This is very different than the normal process.
1:15:11
Yeah. And so going back to the images,
1:15:13
I around that time just started putting together like a my own
1:15:16
Pinterest board. And, you know, I like horror
1:15:20
movies and dark stuff. And I've always, you know, if if
1:15:22
you give me a pen and paper, I'll Draw Something that's like
1:15:25
evil. What it what I go towards?
1:15:29
And yeah, I just started kind of collecting these images that
1:15:34
sort of again, were were visual perspectives, visual examples of
1:15:38
loneliness. And the idea was that when we
1:15:42
would get together to write that we would use Misha has a big
1:15:45
screen TV in his studio that we would broadcast a slideshow of
1:15:49
these images. Let them you.
1:15:51
Know kind of images you're talking about?
1:15:52
Horror movies. No, it's not horror, but it was.
1:15:55
There was a lot of different ones.
1:15:56
I mean, some of them were sort of, a lot of them were drawings
1:16:01
from artists. I have no idea who they are, but
1:16:03
you know, it's Pinterest. So there was a lot of stuff that
1:16:06
looked like very gloomy, dark Pacific Northwest, just like
1:16:10
general anything that evokes live, correct.
1:16:14
Any. Yeah, like.
1:16:15
I remember. There was.
1:16:16
There was this. One, it was like an aerial view
1:16:19
of a black and white. There was like a a house in the
1:16:22
snow and there were people running out of the house.
1:16:24
It was very high up, so you couldn't make out how many
1:16:26
people or what was happening, but it just invoked a feeling.
1:16:28
There was all these different images like that and we wanted
1:16:32
it to be dark, somber. Well, I don't know if we wanted
1:16:36
it to be able to just kind of happened that way, that that's
1:16:38
what the imagery was. And yeah, one of them in
1:16:42
particular that we've talked about at these Guitar Center
1:16:44
events is there was this image of a underground subway hallway,
1:16:50
like a tunnel. So with tile walls, tile floor,
1:16:52
you can imagine it. And then you have there's like,
1:16:54
posters on the wall boxes, you know, you know, oh, oh, I don't
1:16:57
know what the word is. Just what's the color scheme of
1:17:00
that? Like, just looking very dreary,
1:17:02
very just not exciting to be there.
1:17:05
But the the walls are on fire. Russian.
1:17:08
Kind of, yeah. Yeah.
1:17:11
Yeah, Eastern European dark. Brutalist.
1:17:14
Maybe it's a way to put it, but the walls were on fire and a
1:17:20
literal photo. No, I don't know if it was a
1:17:22
photo or a. Regular, yeah.
1:17:25
I don't think any of it. Funny enough, I don't think any
1:17:27
of it was AI art, but when that one flashed up on the screen, I
1:17:33
don't know who it was, may have been Spencer was like, wow,
1:17:35
that's really cool. Let's keep that there.
1:17:37
And that ended up being the image that we kept up when we
1:17:41
wrote the song Mr. God, which is the first single.
1:17:43
And that that visual of this, you know, subway tunnel just on
1:17:48
fire kind of helped tell the story of what that song is
1:17:51
about. And so and every song had one
1:17:55
or, you know, a few photos that or images that were up on that
1:17:59
screen, We'd pause it or cycle through, but it was good.
1:18:01
It's like, you know, you're. Writing and you have a reference
1:18:03
point. It's like kind of a N yeah.
1:18:05
Do you know what the only other than like bands that do?
1:18:07
Drugs. The only other band that I've
1:18:09
heard of doing stuff like that was Lorna Shaw.
1:18:11
I was like, how do you guys write a song?
1:18:13
And I was like, we just like, someone comes up with just a
1:18:16
vibe like Christopher Nolan movie in the snow, and then we
1:18:22
write a song about that. That's awesome.
1:18:24
Yeah. It's very cool.
1:18:24
It's very cinematic, and I mean. That wasn't the only thing that
1:18:28
would sort of get a vibe going, but a lot of these songs like
1:18:31
Obsession just started as like a therapy session.
1:18:34
Like Matt's just talking about what he's going through and we
1:18:38
have a discussion. We have a have a full on
1:18:40
discussion as a band about what it means.
1:18:42
And like, Oh my God, I didn't know that this was what it was
1:18:45
like for you. And then we'll start writing
1:18:47
some lyrics when again, lyrics are last normally.
1:18:50
So it's very interesting. Even if we had like basic riff
1:18:53
ideas or whatever, then we'd be very quick to to get lyrics go
1:18:58
and to to work and, and if it works, then we move on.
1:19:02
If it doesn't work, then we figure something else out.
1:19:04
But like the first time that everything was being done in
1:19:06
tandem, I got to thank Spencer for being like very generous.
1:19:10
Like he does not care where the idea.
1:19:12
Like, like Matt wrote entire courses, lyrics and everything.
1:19:16
And if it's cool stretchers, like, that's awesome.
1:19:18
We should use that. Like, whatever is best for this
1:19:20
all. Yeah.
1:19:20
So like it ends up being this like.
1:19:22
Creative free for all Where? Anyone can say or suggest
1:19:25
anything and it and all of a sudden it went from like I don't
1:19:29
want to do P6, like kill me to like I can't wait to get in a
1:19:33
room. Like I have so many ideas.
1:19:35
The writing sessions went fast. It was just energy.
1:19:38
So fucking talented in your band so.
1:19:40
Like the minute you can, you know, defer something you would
1:19:45
normally do to someone else and just come in and smash you doing
1:19:49
for like what you're known for. Like you're talking about
1:19:51
Spencer like fucking being able to just hey, here's your lines.
1:19:56
They're awesome and then him be awesome on top of it.
1:19:59
Yeah, but but you know what I mean.
1:20:01
I think over the. Past bunch of years, we have all
1:20:03
gone through things individually that whatever the topic was,
1:20:07
each one of us could relate and each one of us wanted to help
1:20:11
the other realize the expression of that.
1:20:15
Because at the time, I don't know if any of us were actually
1:20:21
in the in the thick of going through anything that we wrote
1:20:24
about in those writing sessions we had.
1:20:27
We each had our own perspectives on whatever topic it was and we
1:20:32
could talk about it from that angle and everybody was able to
1:20:36
relate and then apply it to their own lives.
1:20:37
So there's, there's, there's some songs are very specific to
1:20:42
a certain theme or idea, but I think there's also songs that
1:20:46
the, you know, the, the concept is there, the story is there,
1:20:50
but how we apply to our own lives is is unique to each of
1:20:53
us. If that makes sense.
1:20:54
But that allowed it. So even if I was coming up with
1:20:57
a lyrical idea or a melodic idea, Spencer, it wasn't like he
1:21:01
was just singing apart. He was able to connect with it
1:21:05
and then make it his own. Yeah, the magic.
1:21:07
But we. So going back to what Misha?
1:21:09
Was saying before. One of the parameters was very
1:21:12
clear and and non negotiable for this record was we all had to be
1:21:17
in the room for every writing session and that's never
1:21:20
happened before. No, never happened before
1:21:22
normally. What happens is like.
1:21:24
All right. We need sections, we need riffs.
1:21:27
So it'll be me, Jake and Mark. We'll, we'll get, we'll, we'll
1:21:30
do a preliminary writing session.
1:21:32
We'll get a bunch of material really easily.
1:21:35
And then we'll arrange it, but not arrange it, you know,
1:21:38
because then we'll bring the guys in and be like, OK, what do
1:21:41
we actually have, right. Whereas this was like, no, we're
1:21:45
all just going to be there. We're going to start with
1:21:47
nothing and just figure it out. And there was no friction.
1:21:52
There. No, no.
1:21:54
We were very excited. Like it.
1:21:55
It's cool. And what's wild, it's like, you
1:21:57
know, sometimes just setting parameters, that's that's all it
1:22:00
takes because like one example I give is like, give me a give me
1:22:03
a parameter example. I mean just the vibe but but.
1:22:06
Like we have a rift graveyard, right?
1:22:07
In a Dropbox and idea graveyard right?
1:22:10
75% of that stuff became non viable because it was just like
1:22:14
this is not appropriate. This doesn't fit the vibe.
1:22:16
And I mean like, too happy too. Yeah, yeah, too happy or like
1:22:20
too. Energetic or it's like.
1:22:21
I mean, you know, it's weird because I have to talk in
1:22:24
abstractions, I guess. I guess you're pointing
1:22:26
something out which I didn't really think about, which is we
1:22:28
really converged on it in a way that we didn't really have to
1:22:32
define because because we knew when we were doing it and we
1:22:36
knew when we weren't unique to the experience of all you guys
1:22:38
being in that room. Yeah, and just maybe being
1:22:41
around each other so long, but. It's like we it it was like kind
1:22:44
of like the image came in focus and and so like there was never
1:22:48
a thing where it was like, oh, this fits a vibe.
1:22:51
No, it doesn't. It was like, Oh yeah, no, like,
1:22:53
OK, Spencer came to the table with this really awesome idea.
1:22:56
It was like kind of like Slipknot vibe and whatever.
1:22:59
And I was like, man, this idea is awesome.
1:23:01
Like I can't wait to work on it, but does not fit.
1:23:03
And even he was saying I got into it about that.
1:23:05
Yeah, yeah, he really wanted. To to explore the song.
1:23:09
I knew right away that it wasn't the right fit.
1:23:11
And I was sort of like, I did my best to give it a little bit of
1:23:16
time, but I knew pretty quickly. And then when I voiced it, he
1:23:19
wanted to explore it further and I was like, we're wasting time.
1:23:23
No friction. Well, there is, there's.
1:23:26
Always going to be friction, but.
1:23:28
But it's it's again, it's coming from this standpoint of like we
1:23:32
all want to do what's best for the record.
1:23:33
And I think we had to. Clearly we had a prioritize.
1:23:40
We had a prioritize. But also here's the thing.
1:23:42
About that, track that. That that song in and of itself
1:23:45
is fucking sick and I want to work on it.
1:23:48
And that was the thing, this is great.
1:23:50
We should absolutely figure out a time down the line where we
1:23:54
are going to put the time and effort into this that it
1:23:56
deserves. But it's not right for the theme
1:24:00
of this record. And that was something that
1:24:01
Misha early on, which was very uncomfortable for me to assume
1:24:06
this role that he sort of appointed to me, which was you
1:24:12
kind of need to be a producer in the room that is making sure
1:24:17
that that that. We are on.
1:24:19
Track that yeah we honor I'm I'm I'm micromanaging I'm details I.
1:24:23
Can't take the step back. I need you to be my eyes and
1:24:27
make sure when I'm going down rabbit holes that we're still on
1:24:31
track to the to the goal, you know?
1:24:32
OK, let's backtrack a little bit because I wouldn't.
1:24:35
Be the man or the podcast are with these fucking grief
1:24:38
tourists without asking you, what were you?
1:24:42
Going through if you don't. Mind, no, I mean it.
1:24:45
It is uncomfortable to talk about to a degree.
1:24:48
You don't have to. No, I I think I'll say what?
1:24:51
What I do feel? Comfortable saying it's nothing
1:24:53
that I haven't talked about with you before in some way.
1:24:55
I mean, I don't think it's any secret that I've dealt with
1:25:00
different bouts of anxiety throughout my life when, when I
1:25:05
had my, my son, my first kid, you know, it, it shook my world
1:25:13
in a way because it, it he, you know, he's like, he and my
1:25:17
daughter are the best things that ever happened to me.
1:25:19
My wife of course, too. But like when you have when you
1:25:22
have kids, it really makes you quickly focus and figure out
1:25:27
your values, your priorities and your mortality.
1:25:33
A lot of very heavy, heavy realizations, I think come into
1:25:38
play. And, you know, with, with that
1:25:42
responsibility came a different level of anxiety that I'd ever
1:25:45
experienced before. And you know, I basically I
1:25:54
needed to be the best. Parent that I possibly could.
1:25:58
The the the the best role model that I possibly could.
1:26:01
I put a lot of pressure on myself and, yeah, just threw me
1:26:06
for a loop. So through this process, you
1:26:09
know, I I've never been opposed to seeking therapy, talking to,
1:26:14
I mean, I'm definitely not one that keeps stuff in.
1:26:16
I'll talk to my wife about what I'm feeling.
1:26:18
I'll talk to my closest friends. You know, Misha's a confidant of
1:26:21
mine who I've gone to for many different things.
1:26:24
But, you know, there was this sort of moral scrupulosity per
1:26:31
SE that I was dealing with of like, I want to be the best
1:26:34
version of myself. I need to make sure that I am
1:26:36
consistently modeling that in a way that was obsessive.
1:26:42
So what? What didn't ever happen until
1:26:46
this point in my life. And, you know, around this time,
1:26:49
I'm probably, I don't know, late 30s, early 40s was the first
1:26:54
time that I was actually properly diagnosed.
1:26:57
You know, I was told my whole life, oh, you just have anxiety.
1:27:00
Yeah. Well, it's not it.
1:27:01
It was obsessive compulsive disorder, but it's not the kind
1:27:05
that, you know, that I think a lot of people kind of, you know,
1:27:10
think it is. You couldn't see it.
1:27:12
You would never like switch. Yeah.
1:27:13
Or, or, or, you know, there's a lot of different themes for,
1:27:15
for, for OCD, but mine was really based around this idea
1:27:19
of, of being, it's, it's honestly called moral
1:27:23
scrupulosity of like just being the best version of myself
1:27:26
possible in every possible way. And putting this insane amount
1:27:29
of pressure on myself to not only be, you know, the best
1:27:32
father, but to also be the best husband, to be the best friend,
1:27:35
to be like making sure that I dot every I and cross every T
1:27:39
and don't mess up anything, even down to an e-mail.
1:27:42
You know, I would be thinking about like, did I spell
1:27:44
something wrong? Is someone going to think that
1:27:46
I'm not taking my taking things seriously if I don't do this
1:27:48
right? So, you know, it gets to a point
1:27:52
where especially at first when this was all hitting me, where
1:27:56
it was really hard to deal with and it became overwhelming.
1:28:00
But you know, look through therapy and through having a
1:28:03
great support system through different, you know, types of
1:28:08
exposure that it's called exposure therapy.
1:28:11
And then just kind of learning that it, you know, look, when
1:28:17
you have something like anxiety or or OCD, the thing that most
1:28:23
people do is they worry or they ruminate, right?
1:28:28
Worrying is forward, ruminating is backwards, if you think of it
1:28:30
that way. But either way, what people
1:28:34
going through that want is certainty.
1:28:36
You just want certainty. And when you get to a point
1:28:40
where you can accept, which is very hard to do, I don't want
1:28:43
to, you know, Fast forward through this process because
1:28:45
there's been a lot of work. But when you get to a point
1:28:48
where you can accept that the only certainty is uncertainty,
1:28:52
as cheesy as that may sound, then you can truly start to look
1:28:56
at it from a different perspective.
1:28:58
And that was sort of that was that was what I was going
1:29:03
through. That's what the song Obsession
1:29:04
is about. So if you listen to the lyrics,
1:29:06
you know, all the noises are distorting.
1:29:08
I want to tear out of my skin sick from a never ending season.
1:29:12
That's all about that experience that I was having and feeling
1:29:17
like it was just kind of like everything felt like a car
1:29:20
crash. But at the funniest part, you
1:29:24
know, now with perspective is looking at, it's like talking
1:29:27
about an example, like writing an e-mail.
1:29:28
I'm agonizing over this. My wife's sitting there kind of
1:29:31
like laughing at me. She's like, what do you do?
1:29:33
Like, it's fine. People make, they make typos.
1:29:37
But to me, that's a real example.
1:29:39
Yeah. Yeah, that's a real example.
1:29:41
I write emails not the same. Content but.
1:29:44
I write emails like Jeffrey Epstein, like the way I type is
1:29:48
like, no, I hope you don't do that.
1:29:50
No, no, we got to leave that. Great, great clip.
1:29:54
Out of context, that is a. Real example though.
1:29:57
I mean that that that's an example.
1:29:58
And there's a lot of other ones that you know, that I could
1:30:01
paint the picture with, but it doesn't really matter because at
1:30:03
the end of the day, it's, it's all OCD, right?
1:30:07
It's it's intrusive thoughts. It's as they call it, like
1:30:11
dystonic thoughts, things that all of it makes you feel shitty
1:30:15
about yourself and shitty about your decisions and, and shitty
1:30:17
about the things you do. And it doesn't matter how many
1:30:21
people tell you dude, you're, you're fine and you're a good
1:30:24
person and you are a great dad and you're a great friend.
1:30:28
And look at what you have like committed your life to and look
1:30:31
at like think about what you're like.
1:30:33
What are your values? You know, even if they are
1:30:36
great, it's it's still something that you struggle with.
1:30:40
But I go back to that idea of acceptance.
1:30:41
And then thankfully, I was at a point when we started writing
1:30:45
this record where I was able to look at it from that perspective
1:30:49
of not being in the thick of it, if that makes sense.
1:30:52
Can I ask you a question which is on subject but?
1:30:55
Outside of the album, do you think influencer culture has a
1:31:02
lot to blame for this? Kind of like having to be the
1:31:06
best version of yourself because I've seen you doing the ice
1:31:09
baths, I've seen you doing the saunas, I've seen you doing all
1:31:11
the shit that I guess, and I love those things too, but like
1:31:15
they get pushed on the Internet like they are going to fucking
1:31:20
fix everything for you. A lot of I would say actually
1:31:24
the the onset of. This I, you know, I jumped to
1:31:26
some to like a different theme, but the onset of, of my anxiety
1:31:33
here was health related. It was like, and it's, it's,
1:31:37
you're inundated with, well, the data might be out there.
1:31:41
It might, you know, it might not.
1:31:42
I've read some of it and it's, it's compelling.
1:31:44
But like, you know, if you saw in a four days, four to five
1:31:47
days a week at this temperature at this time, you're cutting
1:31:49
down your all 'cause mortality by X amount, right?
1:31:52
If you do ice baths, you're doing this for yourself.
1:31:54
If you're working out, it's all good stuff.
1:31:57
Like none of it's bad where it gets a little bit much.
1:32:02
And this was part of what I was dealing with even before my kids
1:32:05
arrived was like if I didn't hit all of the things every day, I
1:32:10
felt off like I, I felt that, that stress of like, but I
1:32:16
didn't sauna today or I didn't get in the ice bath.
1:32:18
And that was, that was OCD, you know, and, and I'm not saying
1:32:22
everybody who feels that has OCD.
1:32:25
Don't get me wrong. I'm not, this is just me
1:32:27
personally. It's how it manifested.
1:32:29
But I mean, you know, I had, I had a very minor health thing
1:32:34
happen and I went to the doctor and I, I saw, saw my doctor and
1:32:39
she was like, yeah, this is normal, You're good.
1:32:41
Don't worry, Don't think about it.
1:32:42
You know, if anything, if it gets worse in a couple weeks,
1:32:44
come back, we'll figure it out. Well, that wasn't enough.
1:32:49
Then I went to the. A different doctor then.
1:32:50
I went to a specialist. I've done this myself and then I
1:32:53
went to Doctor Google. And then I went here.
1:32:55
Never go there, right? Of course not, but but that was
1:32:58
sort of the beginning of it. And this is this is pre kids.
1:33:01
No, that was the the. The sort of being hard to
1:33:04
myself. About like not hitting all the
1:33:05
yeah, OK, sorry. And then this is post kids and.
1:33:09
And what it was, was Oh my. God, am I going to have
1:33:11
something that kills me and I'm not going to be able to provide
1:33:15
for my family. I'm not going to ban that.
1:33:17
Yeah, it just, it went. A lot further.
1:33:20
And it was, it was really hard for me to understand why I
1:33:23
couldn't let it go. And it was really hard for the
1:33:25
people around me not to, you know, to, to not understand it.
1:33:28
I've never talked about it in a, in a public forum like this.
1:33:32
I I'm sorry to No, it's fine. It's fine because you know at
1:33:35
the. End of the day, I hope.
1:33:37
It can help somebody, you know, by hearing that.
1:33:40
I see people talk about it all the time.
1:33:41
I don't know you know who Luke Combs is.
1:33:43
Country singer, huge country singer.
1:33:45
I only know that from living here.
1:33:46
I've seen so many videos of him on.
1:33:48
Podcast talking about the fact. That he has OCD and what he has
1:33:52
shared is like, I can resonate with it 100% so maybe somebody
1:33:56
else will. So is it medications or is it
1:33:58
just CBT? Do they?
1:34:00
Call it no. Well, not to get too.
1:34:03
Technical. No, I mean for for OCD you have
1:34:05
to do what's called ERP, which is exposure and response
1:34:10
prevention. So you would get exposed to a
1:34:13
trigger, something that would trigger an intrusive thought,
1:34:16
and then your job is to not do the compulsion is is to not
1:34:22
respond to it. Can you give me an example?
1:34:23
I do jujitsu a lot, so let's say I.
1:34:25
Have like a weird ringworm. Or a rash or something like
1:34:28
that, whatever, right? Is it just a little dot on my
1:34:32
arm and it's no big deal? Or is it staph and is it is it
1:34:35
going to be MRSA and am I going to get really sick and die
1:34:38
right. So I think I have this.
1:34:40
That's my, my brain fucking. Worm, an example might be like
1:34:44
you know. Like, OK, you go online, you
1:34:48
look at a picture of what MRSA looks like and then you don't
1:34:55
read anything, you don't look at your own body, you just walk
1:34:59
away and go do something else. So you actually have to go do
1:35:02
the Google for the. Therapy for the exposure
1:35:05
therapy. You might, yeah.
1:35:06
I mean, look, this is, this is one of.
1:35:08
A million possible things that you could do, but yes, I mean,
1:35:12
but that's how like anything, anything you are afraid of to
1:35:15
that level. The best thing to do to get over
1:35:17
that fear is to face the fear, right?
1:35:20
And, but but not to try to like after you, you experience the
1:35:25
fear, not to try to remedy. Remedy it by making yourself
1:35:28
feel better, you know, by seeking reassurance, by calling
1:35:31
the doctor and a Reddit to find someone that had the same thing,
1:35:35
right? You just, you just have to keep
1:35:37
it moving. You're like you have.
1:35:39
To OK, yeah, this is telling me like, oh, you know, I have this
1:35:43
this mark on my arm. I really should look at it.
1:35:46
But you know what? I don't need to do this right
1:35:48
now because I want to go play with my kids.
1:35:50
And that's more important. And the more you do that, the
1:35:53
more you flex that muscle, you you starve the monster, as
1:35:57
people say. And eventually the monster gets
1:36:00
quieter and quieter and quieter and quieter.
1:36:02
And you were doing good now. Yeah, Yeah, doing a lot better.
1:36:05
You never get rid of. It you're never, it's never
1:36:07
going to go away fully, but I think you can figure out there
1:36:13
is hope with it. You can overcome the hard, the
1:36:18
really hard parts. And if if you ever face it
1:36:21
again, you're a lot more prepared to be like, OK, let's
1:36:25
take a step back here. Is this really something that I
1:36:27
need to worry about or is this just OCD?
1:36:30
Do you then because you've done the exposure?
1:36:33
Therapy. Do you then, like if something
1:36:35
comes up, does your brain go to like, no, I remember that last
1:36:38
thing because you exposed yourself to it.
1:36:40
That was nothing and then you can move on quicker.
1:36:43
Yeah, that's kind of what it is. It's very much a.
1:36:46
An active process like you have to be present not only with
1:36:51
recognizing the thought for what it is, which is just a thought.
1:36:55
It's not, it doesn't mean that there's any real weight to the
1:36:58
thought. It's just a thought recognizing
1:37:01
that and then thinking of, you know, think of it like a, like a
1:37:05
split. Path right?
1:37:07
Do I want to go down this road? Because here's this thought,
1:37:09
once you pull me this way, or do I want to go down this road and
1:37:11
keep it moving to what's really important and what my values
1:37:14
are? And that's the decision process.
1:37:16
And I think the more that people realize that there is control
1:37:20
over it, the more I've realized for me, like, I do have control
1:37:23
over over this. It's not just, you know,
1:37:26
consuming me. Then you kind of take some power
1:37:29
back and you're able to to have that perspective.
1:37:33
So, yeah. So that at the time, that was my
1:37:36
struggle. But I'm one of five guys.
1:37:37
Everybody was going through different things.
1:37:39
I don't want to make this about me.
1:37:40
How does that link into loneliness as a concept?
1:37:42
Think of it this way. It was very hard.
1:37:45
For anyone around me, with the exception of my therapist and,
1:37:49
and eventually, eventually, once people understood what this
1:37:53
actually was, it was very hard for anyone to understand or
1:37:57
relate to why I was getting so worked up about the things that
1:38:01
I was getting so worked up about.
1:38:03
Thank goodness I have patient really great people around me
1:38:06
who saw it through with me. But that experience of feeling
1:38:10
like you, like nobody understands what's happening,
1:38:13
not talking about it doesn't help.
1:38:15
Seeking reassurance doesn't help getting, you know, there's times
1:38:20
when Misha has waiting on things.
1:38:21
And that's the thing about getting reassurance.
1:38:23
When you get reassured about something, when you have OCD, it
1:38:28
helps for a short period of time.
1:38:30
You get this like, hit of dopamine and you're OK, I can
1:38:34
relax. Maybe I'll go eat a meal or I'll
1:38:35
go do something else. And then you wake up the next
1:38:37
day and it's back full force, probably worse than it was
1:38:40
before. The same thing you're worried
1:38:41
about, the same thing that that someone like Misha could have
1:38:44
reassured for me is back. So that is a very lonely
1:38:48
experience. You know, to to and and here's
1:38:51
the other thing. It's not like I'm not a rational
1:38:53
person. I'm very rational through all of
1:38:56
this. I am also still completely
1:38:59
functioning as a, you know, as a father, a husband, an adult at
1:39:02
someone who owns a business. Like if you didn't know, like,
1:39:06
did you have any idea? No, not at all.
1:39:08
Right. It it because it's not.
1:39:10
Something that you would physically.
1:39:11
See, it's. It's not like it was behavioural
1:39:15
in that sort of way. It was very lonely to experience
1:39:18
that because most people would have no idea.
1:39:21
Yeah, you know, because. Because really, you know, still,
1:39:24
you're still doing stuff, still doing everything.
1:39:26
Everything's on time. Yeah.
1:39:28
Did Matt's diagnosis help you understand some of his neuroses?
1:39:37
Yeah. I mean, we talked about.
1:39:38
We were. We were always.
1:39:40
I knew about a lot of this stuff because we talk all the time and
1:39:43
like, you know, I mean, you know, sometimes if it was like
1:39:46
flaring up pretty badly, he would call me and I'd I'd do my
1:39:49
best to talk him off the ledge or whatever.
1:39:51
You know, it's like I, I knew about a lot of this stuff.
1:39:55
And then also I don't, I don't have OCDI don't think, but I
1:40:00
think I have a lot of similar. Pattern, like our brains sort of
1:40:05
follow the same paths. I have a lot of anxiety to where
1:40:08
I, I could relate certainly to a certain degree.
1:40:13
So like obsession for me, that song has, has its own meeting
1:40:16
that's very relevant to me. That's not quite the same for
1:40:19
him, but it's like I have my own version of that song where I'm,
1:40:24
I find it very therapeutic and it's very much describing how my
1:40:27
brain works. And, and I think we always
1:40:30
related over that because even though I can't fully understand
1:40:34
what he's going through, I can kind of understand what he's
1:40:36
going through. And I can sort of see why this
1:40:40
would have led to that thought, would have led to that thought,
1:40:43
because I kind of, if he's going, you know, sort of seven
1:40:46
steps ahead, I'm probably going three of those steps myself, you
1:40:48
know? So what's your interpretation of
1:40:51
obsession? For me it's it's.
1:40:56
It's a all right, yeah, yeah, he did it.
1:40:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough, fair enough, fair enough.
1:41:02
It's it's kind of like how my my brain will always or often times
1:41:09
I'm working on it, but will often times go to like worst
1:41:12
case scenario. So I don't know the example of
1:41:16
like, let's say a loved one is supposed to come back at a
1:41:19
certain time and they're not instead of being like, oh,
1:41:22
they're just probably in traffic, it's like, Oh, no,
1:41:24
they're in, they're in an accident, they're dead.
1:41:26
It's absolutely a car crash. And like that's kind of like
1:41:29
that, that, you know, the, the crash is for certain.
1:41:31
It's like that's a kind of literal thing for me.
1:41:33
You know, the crash is for certain.
1:41:36
No one survived. It's like that's like so you,
1:41:38
that's number one, everyone's. For want of a better word,
1:41:43
neurosis. Into the.
1:41:45
Lyrics. Well, everyone, I mean, I don't
1:41:47
know if that's necessarily true. But we just wanted it to
1:41:50
resonate. We want the song to to resonate
1:41:52
to anyone who relates to it. It's not like all songs resonate
1:41:56
with everyone at all times, but you made sure when they do that
1:41:59
they work together well. I don't.
1:42:01
I don't even think we made sure of that, I think.
1:42:03
Just by virtue of working on the lyrics together, which we did,
1:42:06
we worked on all the lyrics together.
1:42:09
And there's there's multiple dimensions to this too, because
1:42:12
often times we're writing lyrics, you know, we're we're
1:42:14
whole on our phones taking notes or writing stray methods.
1:42:17
Yeah, yeah. And then we're, you know, we're.
1:42:19
Coming up with stuff, we're like.
1:42:20
OK, that works, but that sings like shit or that screams like
1:42:23
shit. OK, we need another word.
1:42:25
OK, yeah, like I get the sentiment, but there's a better
1:42:27
way to say. So we're.
1:42:28
We're trying to do it on many levels at once.
1:42:31
And it eventually just sort of coalesces into something that's
1:42:35
that we're like, oh, there we go.
1:42:37
Now we're happy with it. And I think we're very good
1:42:40
about this now about being really honest because again,
1:42:42
it's all abstractions. But if we're not there, we're
1:42:46
just honest about it. We're like, that's, that's not
1:42:48
it. Then we're not, we're like, we
1:42:50
could do better. I know we can do better.
1:42:51
We've done better. And and then when we do, I don't
1:42:54
know why, but everyone's like, OK, there we go.
1:42:56
Now we got now I feel now I can feel that's the magic.
1:42:59
You find the magic. And then and we.
1:43:01
Kind of either get to that point.
1:43:03
Or we we move on to something else and we cut a lot of songs
1:43:08
'cause they never got to that point.
1:43:09
You know, it's like, that's the that's the way the stuff that
1:43:12
made it on had to makes sense. It had to work for everybody.
1:43:16
And it doesn't mean that everyone can relate to every
1:43:19
lyric at every time, but it it works as a concept.
1:43:22
It works as it's selling the idea.
1:43:25
Yeah, the well, and also the litmus tests.
1:43:28
I don't. Think we ever talked about like,
1:43:29
will other people relate to this?
1:43:31
It was more like, can everybody in this room understand what
1:43:35
this really like what we're what we're trying to say like, like
1:43:40
do you, you know, do you get it? OK, I get what you're saying.
1:43:42
Like everything in the room is relatable for each one of us.
1:43:45
I think is is the way to put it. Which would then buy a order of
1:43:50
you. Know there's five of you in the
1:43:51
room. You'd imagine it would relate to
1:43:53
other people. You said a guy pissed his pants
1:43:55
at the fucking show or whatever. That's your interpretation.
1:43:58
That's called projection, my friend.
1:44:01
You said a guy pissed his pants or something?
1:44:02
Yeah. Oh, that was deep guys, sorry.
1:44:06
To put you through that you. No, I appreciate it, man.
1:44:08
It's always good. It's always good to chat.
1:44:10
This is. This is probably.
1:44:11
How we'd be talking with you if there were no mics.
1:44:13
Yeah, true. It's it's a fun kind of
1:44:15
conversations, a lot of. Synths.
1:44:18
A sense on this one. So is this the first Periphery
1:44:23
album since the ultra obsession with the modular synth?
1:44:27
Yes. Well, I want to know because
1:44:29
I've seen the set up and it sounds fucking amazing.
1:44:31
The intro, like all the little can I tell a story?
1:44:35
Yeah, go cut me up on my fucking.
1:44:36
Podcast go well. It's relevant to this, yeah.
1:44:40
The first, the very first day of the very first writing session,
1:44:44
we were just kind of messing around and I think me, Spencer
1:44:47
and Misha and Jake Mark was delayed, his flight was delayed,
1:44:51
so he wasn't there yet. But we, you know, we're in the
1:44:53
studio and we're like, yeah, you know, we definitely should use
1:44:56
the, the synth stuff. Like Misha just showing us all
1:44:59
his toys and he's showing us this and that and whatever, just
1:45:02
pulling a bunch of stuff out and he's kind of starting to play
1:45:03
with sounds and he's, he's going off in his own world.
1:45:05
So we, we left the room. Me and Spencer were downstairs.
1:45:10
I think we were like playing a video game or something and we
1:45:12
could hear that he he started playing what ended up being the
1:45:17
intro of obsession. He just had it on loop and we
1:45:21
looked at each other and like we darted up the stairs.
1:45:24
Dude don't like don't change anything Like that's it.
1:45:29
Is the rest of the song written by this point?
1:45:31
No, no. No, no, nothing.
1:45:33
That was the beginning of that. Song, right, that was the very
1:45:35
beginning of that song was this particular synth combo that he
1:45:41
was playing. It was like on a little tape.
1:45:44
Remember that? Yeah, well, I'd recorded it to a
1:45:46
tapes because like the modular stuff.
1:45:47
Doesn't keep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:45:49
But that was it. That was it.
1:45:50
That's what I wanted to know. So all.
1:45:52
The songs being. Built, which you kind of
1:45:54
answered around the because by the nature of a modular synth
1:45:57
like can you can you even fit that in retroactively to a song?
1:46:01
It's very hard, No, and and actually it's a really.
1:46:05
Good question and a good point, which is like it's so free form
1:46:09
and it's so kind of its own thing that it's a lot harder to
1:46:13
be like, oh, look like we need some layers.
1:46:15
Let's do some modular sense. You just it's so much easier at
1:46:18
that point to use hardware stuff or Serum or whatever to get the
1:46:21
idea across. But it's a great way to like
1:46:24
start a section or to like get a vibe going.
1:46:27
It's incredible for that. And it, what's even better, I
1:46:30
heard, I heard modular synthesis describe this way.
1:46:32
It's like you get to be the first fan of it because you
1:46:35
don't really know what's going to happen.
1:46:37
It's kind of just you're reacting to your plug and stuff
1:46:39
and you're like, I have a general concept of what's
1:46:41
happened. Like I kind of know what's going
1:46:43
to happen, but it's so generative and, and
1:46:45
unpredictable to like where or you, you patch something wrong
1:46:49
or you're like, oh, I wonder what happened.
1:46:51
And then like all of a sudden it's like, whoa, that's cool.
1:46:53
So you're reacting and you're, you know, the, the way I say is
1:46:57
like when we're writing, it's very deterministic.
1:46:59
It's like, I have an idea. I'm going to do the idea here.
1:47:02
It's like you're just slowly nudging this idea in this
1:47:05
direction that's kind of going and you're like, whoa, that's
1:47:07
where it went. I'm going to, I guess I'll nudge
1:47:09
it this way. And then before you know it, you
1:47:11
have like kind of a section and yeah, it's fun.
1:47:13
I mean there isn't like a ton of modular stuff on the own because
1:47:17
of that reason where it's like I can count 2, I think 22.
1:47:21
Songs that sound like they were made to the synth.
1:47:23
And now I know you said you scored this whole thing.
1:47:25
I might be wrong as well. You might tell me it's just a
1:47:27
plug in. I know you said they scored this
1:47:30
whole thing, but you gave me a Dropbox link and for some reason
1:47:32
I listened to it. Both times I listened.
1:47:34
This morning I listened to it in order.
1:47:36
The other two times I listened to it, I just listened through
1:47:39
in alphabetical order. OK, I fucked up with those, but
1:47:42
I think it was the first track. Maybe I want to say the track
1:47:46
before Mr. God. I don't know.
1:47:48
There's there's another one talk that sounds like it was made
1:47:51
around. No.
1:47:53
No, probably Blackwall. Oh yeah, yeah.
1:47:55
Yeah, that's the one. That's all synth.
1:47:57
Yeah, yeah. That's not modular.
1:47:58
But that is like a lot of hardware synths.
1:48:00
That's like all my hardware synths.
1:48:02
And that actually started out because the guys we could, we
1:48:07
can segue into something that you said earlier that was
1:48:09
interesting. You're like, you love gear.
1:48:10
I love gear. This is one of the reasons I
1:48:12
love gear is because sometimes you get a new piece of gear and
1:48:15
it just inspires an idea. It's like one of the best ways.
1:48:18
It's one of the most expensive ways.
1:48:19
It is, but it's but it's a great way.
1:48:21
So you snare drum. So what happened?
1:48:23
Was the the guys were. Having lunch or something.
1:48:25
Like, that was just me and Spencer in the room.
1:48:27
I'd gotten this synth. It's called an UDO Super Gemini.
1:48:31
It's a British, British synth company.
1:48:33
It's one of the coolest sounding since and I was so stoked.
1:48:37
I'd never plugged it in and I just like started to play around
1:48:40
with it, put some reverb on. I was like, man, this sounds
1:48:43
good actually. Oh, we're not doing anything.
1:48:45
I'll just record this. Recorded some chords quickly.
1:48:48
Just put some drums and whatever on it.
1:48:50
And Spencer was like, I have a vocal idea for that.
1:48:53
You know, I, I, I didn't even know.
1:48:55
He was like listening to me. I was just like playing around.
1:48:57
So he just recorded like a gibberish vocal line in there,
1:49:00
which is like exactly the vocal line that's on there with actual
1:49:03
lyrics. And that that was like the
1:49:07
impetus for that. So we weren't even good at.
1:49:09
We were actually saying we're not going to do an electronic
1:49:11
song because we didn't want a gratuitous electronic song on
1:49:15
this album because it's stupid. But this was very much like, oh,
1:49:19
we have something cool. And then Jake, I was like, I
1:49:22
don't really know where to go. And I was like, Jake do do your
1:49:25
thing and make and he just Jake make Jake make and and he.
1:49:30
Always has us leave the room so that he can like.
1:49:32
Lock in and focus. So we, we all fucked off and
1:49:34
then we came back in like a few hours and he had this like
1:49:37
middle section built, which was like, oh man, I have so many
1:49:40
ideas. And then we started to build off
1:49:42
that. So that one came together almost
1:49:45
entirely by accident and just 'cause I like my synth arrived
1:49:48
that day and I was really eager to plug it in.
1:49:50
Can you recreate the modular stuff like?
1:49:53
No, Do you? Yeah.
1:49:54
That's the one of the coolest things about everyone.
1:49:57
I think about. Like pink if you turn it off,
1:49:59
even if it's patched exactly the same.
1:50:01
It'll it will be fucked. Have you ever lost magic?
1:50:04
You. It's all it is.
1:50:05
It's the. Most ephemeral thing.
1:50:07
Ever. That's why I like it.
1:50:08
That's why I have like these tape machines I recorded too.
1:50:11
And it's like it's captured on that Teenage Teenage Engineering
1:50:15
TP7, which is a digital tape machine with a really good pitch
1:50:19
shifting algorithm. So I'll record it to that and
1:50:21
then I can manipulate it and have it for later because I
1:50:24
would never be able to recreate that.
1:50:26
I have, I don't even remember what it was.
1:50:27
So you record it to that and then what?
1:50:30
You then you record it in the. Door and then I'll pitch shift
1:50:32
it and I'll time stretch it to. Fits like what we're doing if
1:50:36
necessary or maybe it's the basis for that.
1:50:38
I mean, often times it's not even in tune with anything.
1:50:41
It's like kind of in its own. So I'll have to like shift it
1:50:43
like 20 censor, you know, whatever to to but like we, you
1:50:46
know, you get it in and then all of a sudden it's magic.
1:50:49
It's so funny, like the most I would tell you the most.
1:50:52
Digitally proficient band in the world, maybe?
1:50:55
Sincerely doubt that. I doubt who.
1:50:58
Else it's nice of you to say for digital.
1:51:00
Fucking plug insurance. I don't.
1:51:01
Know every single one of. You in Barbador?
1:51:04
Tap Danley. This sounds like a timenary
1:51:06
sketch. Yeah, I'm glad you picked up on
1:51:09
it. Yeah.
1:51:09
Jesus Christ. Yeah, there was there.
1:51:11
Was actually. I remember the first.
1:51:12
Writing session everybody was. Over at Misha's on the wall of
1:51:16
synth, just there was a groove going and it was that, remember
1:51:20
that? Like real ghost, like that real
1:51:22
ghosty sound that like it sounded like a, what do you call
1:51:27
it, like a like a theremin or something.
1:51:28
All this. Yeah, it was kind of like a
1:51:29
theremin or like. I don't know.
1:51:31
It was, yeah. It was just like this ghoulish
1:51:33
high pitched thing, and it was really cool and we were just
1:51:35
trying to chase a vibe. But the problem was it just
1:51:38
didn't stay. Yeah.
1:51:39
So yeah, you just couldn't. It was very hard to catch a
1:51:41
musical ghost. I've just remembered something
1:51:43
by the way. Which you telling me this OCD
1:51:47
thing makes so much sense? Do you remember the second
1:51:50
podcast we did kind of you phone me like.
1:51:54
Two days later and you said I want.
1:51:55
To do that podcast again. And I said, what the fuck?
1:51:59
And then I think I was probably because not knowing what you're
1:52:03
going through, I was probably like, what the fuck?
1:52:07
And you were like adamant that you needed to do it again.
1:52:10
You were like, I think, I think we can do it better and all this
1:52:12
stuff. And I remember thinking at the
1:52:13
time, what the fuck? And we did it again and it was
1:52:15
great. But I remember thinking the
1:52:19
other one was completely fine. And now that makes a hell of a
1:52:23
lot of sense. Yeah.
1:52:24
And I'm sorry if I if at any point during that, I was like,
1:52:28
what the fuck are you doing? I didn't know what it was
1:52:31
either. I mean, this is just how I.
1:52:32
How I've been my whole life, that's the thing, my whole life.
1:52:36
And that's not to go back into this, but I'll say one thing
1:52:39
that's like one of the biggest things that that I've tried to
1:52:44
focus on is, is gratitude, right?
1:52:47
Because even though I've had this my whole life, you know,
1:52:52
I'm very grateful for, for what I have in life.
1:52:56
And I don't need much, but I have great friends.
1:52:59
I have a great family. I have job that I love, people
1:53:03
that I, that I love working with.
1:53:06
And I know myself and like, what else can you ask for, you know?
1:53:10
So. But none of that would exist if
1:53:13
I didn't have that. It's kind of what you were
1:53:15
saying to Misha before, right? Yeah.
1:53:16
Even when you said it there, I was like an.
1:53:19
Unfortunate byproduct of your success?
1:53:23
Yeah. Or catalyst for this success?
1:53:26
Yeah. Any sort of different influences
1:53:29
musically when you've been making this album?
1:53:31
Anything you were listening to in particular?
1:53:33
I was just listening to a lot of music.
1:53:35
That was 100. Percent lyric driven at the
1:53:40
time, I was listening to a lot of Sturgill Simpson.
1:53:43
I was listening to man, I got to think back to that time period,
1:53:47
which was like a year ago. I mean, that was that was a big
1:53:51
one. But just I love the way that he
1:53:54
was telling stories, you know, and I listen a lot of different
1:53:58
kinds of music lately, and this is this applies to I've been
1:54:03
listening to a lot of Stephen Wilson junior.
1:54:05
I don't know if you're familiar. I'm aware of Stephen Wilson.
1:54:08
Different offspring. I've just over the years I've.
1:54:11
Really honed in on lyrical content and listening to a story
1:54:17
when listening to a song, and that is what speaks to me the
1:54:19
most, I think. And then when you combine the
1:54:22
story with the appropriate music to support it, there's nothing
1:54:26
better. It's crazy for a drama to say
1:54:28
that I don't give a fuck. About lyrics, don't care, got a
1:54:32
story? Don't give a shit.
1:54:33
But you know he Misha identified.
1:54:36
Something I didn't, I never really thought of at all, but
1:54:40
like, I don't think I am much. I'm a drummer.
1:54:43
But like, he's not, he's not a drummer.
1:54:46
He's not a real drummer. I'm joking.
1:54:47
About the Lyric ship, no, but. He's he's a, he's a producer who
1:54:50
plays drums. That's what I.
1:54:51
Realized in this session he's a producer.
1:54:54
Who fucking? He's a drummer though.
1:54:55
No, but that's what makes him a great drummer.
1:54:57
So not only has this. Thing maybe he's told you this
1:54:59
there's like drummers who play for the phrase and drummers that
1:55:01
play for the note right and a lot of metal guys so a lot of
1:55:04
metal guys play for the notes like this symbol this you know
1:55:07
exactly this and then like, I don't know like church guys
1:55:10
gospel guys, they're not playing you don't you think Eric Moore
1:55:13
knows what he's playing He's just flowing right.
1:55:15
They're playing for the phrase, right.
1:55:17
Matt's very much for a phrase playing for the phrase.
1:55:20
It's why I will always wanted Matt or drummer like Matt in the
1:55:23
band because like I like that sound.
1:55:25
But what I didn't fully realize until this album was like, oh,
1:55:30
the reason that he does that is because he's always hearing
1:55:33
everything sort of from a step backwards, like as a a musical
1:55:36
picture. It's never about the drums.
1:55:38
It's always about how did the drums fit?
1:55:41
And, and that became very clear once we started to work on the
1:55:43
songs and I was like the the drums are almost secondary or
1:55:48
like the the details are not important.
1:55:50
They're important in any part where it has to follow the
1:55:53
guitars exactly like with the cakes.
1:55:55
Aside from that, it's kind of it's just there to support the
1:55:58
song. It doesn't really.
1:55:59
It doesn't really. Matter.
1:56:00
It just needs to be a musical. Instrument.
1:56:01
It does a great job of supporting the song while also
1:56:04
flexing. Though, Yeah, no, but the but
1:56:06
flow drummers do that. That's the thing.
1:56:08
It's like. If you're thinking about the
1:56:09
phrase that's actually the gift that you have is you can
1:56:12
overplay because the stuff you do will be very intuitive and
1:56:15
it's never about like I must have this, these ghost notes
1:56:18
here in exactly in between. You know what I'm talking about.
1:56:20
I couldn't like tell you every single.
1:56:24
Note that I play for every song ever.
1:56:27
Like I, I understand the to his point, I get the phrase and I
1:56:31
know like what it should be in terms of a melody like like, and
1:56:34
we we've talked about this before.
1:56:36
Like to me, drums are just another melodic expression, but
1:56:42
I think lyrics are or vocal parts, you know, they're the
1:56:47
front and center melody. And I I wasn't as tuned into
1:56:50
this idea, but like with this record, I really started paying
1:56:53
attention to not only like, what what is the melody that Spencer
1:57:01
is singing, but like, how do the words work with it?
1:57:04
What do they mean on top of that?
1:57:06
And then what is that supposed to make everything else feel
1:57:09
like? And how should everything work
1:57:13
together, you know, in in a way that that makes sense.
1:57:16
And maybe that's self-explanatory what a song
1:57:17
should be. But I, I don't know, as a band,
1:57:21
even I don't know if we ever thought about it that way.
1:57:24
And that's why. So for this record, everything
1:57:27
was happening at the same time. It wasn't like, OK, we have a
1:57:30
synth part or we have a drum part or we have a guitar riff
1:57:32
and then we'll layer it after that.
1:57:34
It was like, OK, what is the idea?
1:57:36
What's, what are we, what story are we telling?
1:57:41
OK, what's the first lyric? What?
1:57:45
What's the What's the verse? About what do we want to?
1:57:47
Say what? What layer is going to make
1:57:50
sense for this? What drum sound is going to make
1:57:53
sense for this? And it was all happening at
1:57:55
once, which was very different for for us as band.
1:57:59
Did you struggle to relinquish I I mean?
1:58:02
Assume you had quite a lot of control over the songs before
1:58:06
this record. That's an assumption, by the
1:58:08
way, 'cause no, the way to think, he didn't he he didn't
1:58:11
relinquish anything. He.
1:58:12
Was still very. Much at the helm and as he
1:58:15
should be, but also I I mean, well, there's.
1:58:18
Two ways to look at it. Like I'm at the helm.
1:58:20
I'm like producing the writing sessions, but I love the
1:58:23
collaboration. I don't want to control.
1:58:26
Like, that's one thing. When when I started this band
1:58:29
was like, I want to find members that I could collaborate.
1:58:31
I don't want to do everything myself because Bulb was just
1:58:34
you. Yeah.
1:58:35
And I and I hate. Doing that, to be honest, like
1:58:37
it's. But it's about finding members
1:58:39
that have good chemistry, like we have an excellent writing
1:58:41
chemistry. So if we get in a room like I, I
1:58:43
know I can count on them. I know I can trust them like but
1:58:46
it is the coolest fucking thing to.
1:58:49
Watch him when he's like dialed in.
1:58:52
It is fucking genius. Nuts.
1:58:54
I'm nuts. I mean, I can't tell you I live
1:58:56
down your discography recently. You're a fucking.
1:58:58
Genius. There are so many memorable
1:59:00
moments where I'm in. The back of his studio and he's
1:59:03
at the computer and he's just on something.
1:59:07
He's going in with whatever the ideas that he's working on.
1:59:10
And I'm like laughing, just sitting there laughing, watching
1:59:13
him work. And I'm even like there's times
1:59:16
when I would like go like this to Spencer, like bro, like look
1:59:19
at this guy go and you probably have no idea that this is
1:59:22
happening behind you. But like, that's what's going on
1:59:24
while we're just like, we're like.
1:59:26
This is amazing jokes about you. Well, no, but no.
1:59:29
It's like, it's like it's so cool to see somebody so locked
1:59:33
in that way. And like the ability is his
1:59:35
ability, dude, his ability to focus for 12 hours in a row.
1:59:40
Like there are, there are times where it's funny.
1:59:43
He'll like, we'll all wake up and get in the studio and he'll
1:59:45
be like, yeah, like, yeah, I'm going to go make a coffee and
1:59:48
I'm going to grab a shower. Then we'll get to work.
1:59:50
But like but first I just want to check this one thing. 8 hours
1:59:53
later he's like fuck I didn't shower or have coffee today.
1:59:56
I haven't moved from the seat I need a break but I'm not
1:59:58
kidding. 8 hours later life sentence.
2:00:01
But it's the ADHD thing. It's like I'm.
2:00:03
Just going to check this thing out real.
2:00:04
Quick, yeah, but it's also real quick being, you know.
2:00:08
Obsessed with what you do Will partly is the same way every
2:00:10
time I work will we're supposed to go get coffee supposed to get
2:00:13
breakfast and it's like I'm just going to go start this.
2:00:16
I won't do the voice will. I'm going to go start this thing
2:00:19
the same thing. He's fucking still there being a
2:00:21
fucking another genius lucky to fucking know so many G genies.
2:00:25
What do you mean you are? Yeah, you are too.
2:00:27
I've nobody does what you. Do.
2:00:29
No, that's not true. Stop it.
2:00:31
And I play the drums. OK, that's it.
2:00:34
That's all I got. See, we're all bad at taking
2:00:36
compliments. We are.
2:00:37
You got to work on that. But I'm not a genius, Annie.
2:00:39
I feel like you know what I. Actually do feel like.
2:00:43
I need I do need to make music soon because I put a lot of
2:00:47
myself worth into making music and I've only realized that
2:00:50
recently. But what's cool to see, too, is
2:00:52
how open you're being. About like your practice journey
2:00:55
right now and what you're working on because it's, it's
2:00:57
cool to see. Most people don't get to see all
2:01:00
the work that goes into then the finished product, which is what
2:01:03
most people can see. They see a play show and they
2:01:05
hear a record. They don't get shit.
2:01:06
But if you're not, then you're not really practicing.
2:01:09
It's real. It's very cool for people to see
2:01:11
that. And I think it's going to make
2:01:12
whatever you do next musically that obviously from a technical
2:01:17
standpoint much better, but people are going to be like more
2:01:19
invested in whatever you do because of that.
2:01:21
I think that is a thing. I I've I've been a little bit.
2:01:24
Disheartened by the amount of people that like I know, like I
2:01:30
I self deprecate a lot that I'm not a good drummer.
2:01:35
I know I'm a good drummer but like that I'm not one of the
2:01:37
fucking greats or whatever. But it has been slightly
2:01:40
disheartening for people to leave a comment like, oh, I
2:01:43
didn't realize you were this bad at the drums.
2:01:46
Like and the Internet is like rule on purpose.
2:01:49
It doesn't affect. Me.
2:01:50
But what it? Does the disheartening is not
2:01:52
for myself. It's more like you have no idea.
2:01:56
And as a result of that, like I know that person that left the
2:01:59
comment doesn't practice, will never practice, probably doesn't
2:02:02
play music and then it just makes me a little bit sad for
2:02:05
the other person. Good for you, because I don't.
2:02:06
I don't have the balls to show people how.
2:02:09
Much. I truly suck at the fucking
2:02:11
drums. I'm terrible And and no, I'm
2:02:13
serious And and it's like, it's this thing that like eats away
2:02:18
at me. It's like you should go
2:02:19
practice. You should go practice.
2:02:20
You, you are terrible at this. You're not good.
2:02:23
This is you are like the king. I mean, that's me as well.
2:02:26
Yeah. Yeah, You're, you're, you're.
2:02:27
The king of What is it we all have?
2:02:29
Imposter Imposter syndrome. Thank you.
2:02:31
We all, we all. Have you're going to say a
2:02:32
difference? Yeah, I can't talk about that
2:02:34
one. Keep this on.
2:02:37
Fucking keep it. I didn't say any other words.
2:02:40
I have two questions. One of them I have to fucking
2:02:43
ask you and then one that's just popped into my head.
2:02:45
I'm really sorry to keep going on the OCD thing.
2:02:49
I have just one question right now and if it sucks, then we can
2:02:53
just cut out of the podcast. You recently started
2:02:57
deliberately playing a different set up every night or like
2:03:01
having stuff in a different position, and I think I saw you
2:03:04
talk about that before. Was that exposure therapy?
2:03:08
No, because that's no, because I obsess over like.
2:03:11
My stands. I fucking measure them.
2:03:13
I actually have 0. Concerns with any of that you
2:03:18
could put me on a kick, snare drum and hi hat.
2:03:21
That's so I'll play. That's the thing.
2:03:22
It only applies this stuff that I, that I've struggled with,
2:03:26
only applies to very small aspects of my life.
2:03:31
And there's, it's funny because like the things that like other
2:03:34
people I know will agonize about, I can understand it from
2:03:37
that standpoint. But like, I don't have any issue
2:03:40
with literally most of the things in my life.
2:03:42
I'm like, chill. Yeah.
2:03:44
You know, that's interesting. If I could just comment on that
2:03:46
as well. I mean I.
2:03:47
Know I said that you're not a. Drummer, but he's he he is one
2:03:50
of the most naturally and effortlessly talented dudes at
2:03:54
drums. Like it's it's annoying.
2:03:56
You know, The thing is like, I've been playing with him for
2:03:58
so long that like, I think he's what drums sound like, you know,
2:04:02
and there's times in the set where like it's if it's like a,
2:04:06
you know, simpler part, like first of all, if ever I'm just
2:04:09
feeling like self-conscious or whatever, I'll just go hide and
2:04:12
jam with him. And sometimes I'll just like
2:04:15
watch him do I'm like, he's insane.
2:04:18
You're an insane drummer. But like, I take it for granted
2:04:20
because, you know, I'm so used to like, like this is what the
2:04:23
song sounds like and I'm focused on playing my own stuff or, and
2:04:26
whatever. But there'll be times where I
2:04:28
like watch it. I'm like, Jesus Christ, like,
2:04:30
who are you? And like, I know that in his
2:04:33
head, he's not. He's probably not even thinking
2:04:35
about drums. He's probably just thinking
2:04:36
about the song or just like it's, it's, it's so it's such a
2:04:40
bird's eye view of everything like, and I'm and I'm like,
2:04:43
what? Like was that?
2:04:45
And I know he couldn't, you put a gun to his head.
2:04:47
He couldn't tell you what that lick was.
2:04:48
You know, it's kind of sick. It is.
2:04:50
I mean, you guys asked me to fill in.
2:04:51
Fucking over 10 years ago and I styled it.
2:04:55
I was busy. I think I did have another tour,
2:04:58
but like I styled it off of the fact that I had another tour.
2:05:00
It was mainly just I listened to it.
2:05:02
No, you could do it. You're 100%, totally, 100%.
2:05:05
You don't. Test me.
2:05:07
I won't do. It people do feel it for me
2:05:10
though, and they crush it. It's.
2:05:11
Great, couldn't do it. And then the other question I
2:05:13
have to fucking. Ask is the artwork because we
2:05:16
didn't really dig into it. What's going on?
2:05:19
What's those little fucking symbols?
2:05:20
What's all the little smudges? dot is representing a song.
2:05:25
You know what I liked? About it, we had a whole bunch
2:05:27
of different mock ups, but that one, that one I really liked and
2:05:30
it was like each song is represented by a dot.
2:05:33
The artist Piper Ferrari sheet interpreted like we gave her the
2:05:37
the meaning of every song and she did her interpretations of
2:05:40
it and and I think those came out really cool.
2:05:42
But the, the overarching thing too was I thought the irony of
2:05:46
like being alone together because everyone's lonely,
2:05:49
everyone experiences loneliness. It's a very universal thing.
2:05:52
And the ironies were all like right next to each other.
2:05:55
And there's just something about that the way that it was
2:05:57
arranged on the cover there where I was like, wow, like
2:05:59
that. That's, that's the vibe.
2:06:01
That's a concept we're going for with this.
2:06:04
Yeah. So I worked with Piper on all
2:06:07
the. Artwork for the record her and I
2:06:08
just spent a lot of time talking about the songs kind of like
2:06:13
like we are now, but talking about the songs talking about
2:06:15
like just trying to make her. It was tough too, because I
2:06:18
really we didn't have stuff that we were comfortable sending at
2:06:21
that point musically. So I had to sort of explain it
2:06:25
and it helped us. I think it it helped that we
2:06:27
were all talking about like, you know, I wasn't doing it from my
2:06:30
own perspective solely. I was going to these guys and be
2:06:32
like, hey, like, this is what I need to convey to her.
2:06:36
Like, are you cool with this? Is this the right idea for this
2:06:39
song? Are we all on the same page?
2:06:40
And it made all of us get to really know the songs.
2:06:44
And then therefore it it helped us communicate to her and then
2:06:47
developed the artwork around it. Awesome.
2:06:49
Yeah. Piper Ferrari.
2:06:52
Yeah, she's the front person of Roman Candle.
2:06:56
Yeah, yes. Amazing artist.
2:06:58
I think I tried to buy one of her designs that she'd already
2:07:02
made. It was like a rotten.com design.
2:07:04
And I was like, I don't make a downbeat T-shirt of that because
2:07:06
I talk about rotten.com all the time.
2:07:08
And we couldn't figure out. I think she said she was going
2:07:11
to make prints out of it in the end anyway.
2:07:12
But great artist, great speak. Yeah, she she really did an
2:07:16
amazing job. There's a lot of questions.
2:07:18
That we get about this record already.
2:07:20
From people coming to these events, there's people that are
2:07:23
posting about the experience, there's people that are bummed
2:07:27
out that they won't get the same experience.
2:07:30
And I think hopefully this podcast and hopefully the record
2:07:35
itself will, you know, shed light on what this, what this
2:07:40
album is about for us. And and here's the big like this
2:07:43
is a big thing that we see is like, you know, we see a lot of
2:07:45
people talking about like a documentary asking like, is
2:07:48
there? We we've previously we've done
2:07:50
it before and for this record, we didn't do it.
2:07:52
For a lot of reasons. But it was just so personal for
2:07:57
the five of us. While we were doing it.
2:07:59
We weren't even thinking about that.
2:08:01
We were just in it. It was like, this is what's
2:08:02
almost too We can have distractions.
2:08:05
Yeah. You know, it's like you have a
2:08:07
camera, you act a little different, you know, and when
2:08:09
it's when stuff is too personal and it's.
2:08:12
Crazy because it's like a fucking what's?
2:08:15
It's like a paradox. Yeah, When stuff is so personal
2:08:20
that it would make wonderful content, it is too personal for
2:08:25
you to want to pull out a camera and share that moment.
2:08:29
That's what I struggle with. Like vlogging.
2:08:30
Like I did vlogging for a while and then these last three months
2:08:35
my life has had so many shit fucking things happen that her
2:08:40
fucking tree in our reef and all this stuff that would make her
2:08:43
fucking excellent. But I'm so miserable and
2:08:46
depressed about the whole thing. Like I don't want to pull out
2:08:48
fucking camera and share this with the world.
2:08:50
It would almost like block you from really getting to 100.
2:08:53
Percent of what we needed, you know, yeah.
2:08:56
Because it'd be like, oh, we're going to have some curated
2:08:58
version of this for the cameras. It's like that is that is
2:09:01
anathema to everything that we're trying to do right now.
2:09:04
I think one other important thing that I want to say like
2:09:06
look, we. Talked a lot about the song
2:09:08
obsession and what that means, but this album is not about
2:09:12
that. Like it's not about me by any
2:09:14
means. Every single one of us has
2:09:17
really heavy stuff on this record, you know, just briefly,
2:09:22
like the song Carry On is about one of the darkest times in
2:09:25
Spencer's life, truly like an extremely personal song for him,
2:09:30
something that represents a time that he again now has come out
2:09:34
of and and has a really beautiful perspective on it.
2:09:39
The song Everyone Dies Alone is about grief that we've all
2:09:43
experienced and it it's extremely personal to each one
2:09:48
of us. And yeah, so I guess my point
2:09:52
is, with the exception of the the few songs on the record that
2:09:55
are more, I don't know, there are some stories there.
2:09:59
There are also ones we or. We were just discussing
2:10:02
concepts, yeah. Wouldn't it be interesting to
2:10:05
explore this or that, like Subhuman, Black Wall, Neon
2:10:09
Valley? Those are Mr. God even too.
2:10:12
Yeah, Mr. God also fits. Into that and malevolent.
2:10:15
It's like there are it's like taking the concept of this and
2:10:19
and pushing it. What's the Mr. God concept?
2:10:22
Imagine like someone. Who's so?
2:10:24
Powerful and influential that they don't realize that they're
2:10:29
engineering their own loneliness.
2:10:31
The analogy. Fucking yeah.
2:10:32
And the analogy is like everything they're they touch
2:10:34
catches fire, and yet they're curious about why the world is
2:10:38
burning around them. And also they're curious about
2:10:40
why am I alone? I don't understand.
2:10:42
Why isn't it? Why isn't there anyone left?
2:10:44
Why isn't there anywhere near me?
2:10:45
And and referencing that image that I talked about earlier with
2:10:47
this. This, you know, I just imagine
2:10:49
this, this character being very kind of like withdrawn and sad
2:10:56
that they are alone, but yet as they walk down this hallway and
2:10:59
their arms are out, not knowing why am I like this?
2:11:01
They're burning the walls down and they can't.
2:11:05
They don't understand why and how this is happening, but it's
2:11:08
it's all a part of, of who they are.
2:11:11
I love writing a concept song. Love it.
2:11:14
I love being like this isn't me, but imagine if this was me and
2:11:17
then you score it and that's fun and it gives you direction.
2:11:20
It's like what? Like that's why that song is so
2:11:23
short and explosive. Like without that direction,
2:11:25
maybe it would have been a longer song, maybe it would have
2:11:27
gone off into other places. But I like it for what it is
2:11:31
because to me it it sounds like the concept that we were going
2:11:35
for. Happy with the reaction.
2:11:37
Fucking songs popping. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's
2:11:40
early days, but but. So far we're very happy.
2:11:43
I got a question with about the video amps and cabs.
2:11:47
Yeah, got to Rep the the the companies.
2:11:49
And you know what's weird? It's like we we talked about
2:11:51
that and it's like it's it's kind of weird to have a guitar
2:11:55
and not have a cab. I don't know.
2:11:56
Yeah, I like that. And and we were doing
2:11:58
performance videos if there was like a concept like kind of, but
2:12:01
it's like a just a raw performance video.
2:12:02
Did you have Amazon cabs on this Barry box?
2:12:05
Tool. No, not on Sage it doesn't.
2:12:08
We don't have space in. The trailer part of that
2:12:10
conversation, that was, was the director too, Caleb.
2:12:12
Young, who's the director, You know, he he was like, yeah, we
2:12:16
got to have cabs. You got to, you got to have
2:12:18
caps. You know you want to bring them,
2:12:19
bring them back on stage space in the trailer.
2:12:22
I'm not allowed to turn them up. I love.
2:12:24
Them, I love them so much, But then Marchetti's our front of
2:12:26
house is just like it's too loud, you know, and then and
2:12:30
then I do the thing where like I'd make it louder throughout
2:12:32
the set and he's like, I can hear that you're just ruining
2:12:35
the show. And I'm just like, what's the
2:12:37
point where this is so much work?
2:12:39
It takes up space. It takes.
2:12:40
It's just everything. And then I can't even use him.
2:12:43
And he's the best. So we listen to.
2:12:44
Yeah, we listen to him. Just love Alex and one.
2:12:46
Of us from Metallica as well. For he was.
2:12:48
James Hedgefield's guy. Yeah, so sick.
2:12:50
Yeah, great dude. Yeah, he's not just.
2:12:53
Never met him. I'd love to, though.
2:12:54
James, you want to come on here? All right.
2:12:56
Quick fire. Yeah, got quick fire.
2:12:57
Who's the funniest person in periphery?
2:12:59
Mark? Wow.
2:13:01
And close. Spencer has been getting pretty
2:13:03
close. Lately he's been getting me
2:13:05
good. Yeah, OK, Who thinks they're the
2:13:07
funniest? Me.
2:13:10
You have your. Moments that you really do.
2:13:12
Who's the biggest Diva Marchettis.
2:13:13
I'm just, I'm just joking. I think we've all been at
2:13:17
different times. It's not.
2:13:19
I'm the exception of Spencer. There's not like a overwhelming
2:13:23
this person. Wait, so he's the least diva?
2:13:26
Oh, Spencer. Spencer he is.
2:13:27
He is very Spencer. The least?
2:13:30
Vocalist. Vocalist that I.
2:13:31
Know he's the. Easiest.
2:13:33
He's the easiest guy ever. Interesting.
2:13:35
Yeah, No, no, who is most likely to forget their own part?
2:13:38
On stage? Me.
2:13:40
Probably, yeah. I mess up a lot.
2:13:43
I don't know who is most likely to order something.
2:13:46
Ridiculous at one of these. Nice restaurants you go to and
2:13:48
then regret it. Regret it.
2:13:51
You don't have to regret it. Who's who's?
2:13:52
Most likely to order. Something ridiculous you are,
2:13:55
Mark. Yeah, me.
2:13:56
Me, yeah, me. Or Mark Most the most
2:13:57
ridiculous. Thing you've ever eaten?
2:13:59
Anything wacky? No one.
2:14:01
We went to, Yeah, we went to Noma.
2:14:04
Me, Mark and Dolly went fucking Johnny.
2:14:06
Six businesses over it we. Went in 2015.
2:14:08
Before the companies, yeah. Yeah, we went in a fucking the
2:14:12
law. Yeah, we went in 2015 and that
2:14:15
whole meal. Was crazy, but the the main
2:14:17
course was a smoked duck, but it was the whole duck, like the
2:14:22
whole thing. Yeah, yeah, it's a little beak.
2:14:24
Brains and all. Beak was there.
2:14:26
Everything you eat the beak, you eat the beak.
2:14:27
Don't. Eat the beak, but it but it.
2:14:29
Was. I mean, it was a.
2:14:30
The whole thing in a in a giant nest that they made.
2:14:33
That's fucking amazing. You seen the movie in the menu?
2:14:37
Yeah, no, I haven't. And Amisha has.
2:14:39
Oh my God. And you like a horror,
2:14:41
Literally. I need bro, you need to watch it
2:14:44
like. Straight it would be your
2:14:45
favorite. Movie.
2:14:46
OK, it's fucking, it's got Ray. Fines in it, yeah.
2:14:49
It's who I love. Unbelievable.
2:14:50
It's hard to see him though in. Any other?
2:14:52
Role. For me than what?
2:14:55
In Bruges? No.
2:14:56
Well, that dragon. Grand Budapest.
2:14:59
Oh, yeah, he's no, no, no, that's true.
2:15:02
That's true. I'm.
2:15:02
Gustav man, that's one of the That's true if you're planning a
2:15:05
day. Off on tour?
2:15:07
Who plans? It markedis markedis we need to
2:15:10
talk about that. Yeah.
2:15:11
God, I want to plan it because I want to be around good food,
2:15:14
good coffee. I want him to plan it because I
2:15:16
want to be around good food and good coffee.
2:15:18
That's all I care about on tour, that's it.
2:15:21
Yeah, I like it. Feel like I'm shitting on Marky.
2:15:24
I love, I love. That man.
2:15:25
So much. We went to high school together.
2:15:27
Well, why did you say him? Well, he plans it.
2:15:29
He's our he's our tour manager. OK, to be fair.
2:15:32
He's trying to do things as economically as possible.
2:15:35
So he's he's being very responsible and I would like him
2:15:38
to sometimes be irresponsible so that we can have nice coffee.
2:15:41
And the ironic part of that is he loves coffee.
2:15:44
He loves food, yes, as much as I do.
2:15:47
So like that's all we do. He's making a sacrifice so that
2:15:50
we can have a little more money. At the end of tour.
2:15:52
That's why it doesn't make a difference to him.
2:15:54
He gets paid the same. He's just more comfortable
2:15:57
drinking Starbucks than I am. Same with Misha, Starbucks,
2:16:00
Colbury. That's why I do.
2:16:01
I can't fuck with it. It's fine, It's the same.
2:16:03
Everywhere it's fine. If you get anything else.
2:16:06
From Starbucks. No, you're wrong.
2:16:09
Starbucks cold brew if you just want caffeine, it's it to taste.
2:16:12
I had it today. I had it today.
2:16:13
Sometimes I treat myself, but I. Got the fellow Aiden now.
2:16:16
And the cold brew saying is the I only use it for cold.
2:16:20
Brew though, because I don't. Madison doesn't drink coffee and
2:16:23
then I don't have enough friends to ever use the batch brew
2:16:28
feature. So cold brew feature is so I
2:16:31
have an Aiden, he has an Aiden, you haven't Aiden and.
2:16:33
Then we, as a band, bought an Aiden to take on tour.
2:16:37
It is the IT is the greatest. It is.
2:16:40
The greatest thing to have? On tour and I discovered or I
2:16:44
didn't discover, I would just watch Lance Hedrick.
2:16:46
Yes, I've been using my origami filter with it because you can
2:16:50
sort of hack it by putting a tiny magnet there.
2:16:52
And then you could just use an origami filter and like my
2:16:55
Catholic T92 filter or like or or my whatever filter you want
2:17:00
is responsible for some strange things that work.
2:17:03
Yep, the V-60 method, which is like a 2 minute balloon and then
2:17:06
a really slow pour. Unreal.
2:17:09
I gotta try that, it's fucking crazy. 2 minute.
2:17:12
But it. It says to do between 1:00 and
2:17:14
2:00 minutes, but like if I've got a coffee that I'm struggling
2:17:18
to get the right taste out of, I try that one and it's like, oh,
2:17:22
this is. The best thing I've it makes
2:17:23
sense. Because that's the part where
2:17:25
you'll you'll extract the. Acidity, you know, So if you
2:17:27
want to really get the punch, it's also really good if you're
2:17:30
feeling particularly fucking lazy.
2:17:31
In the morning, yeah, too many, bro.
2:17:33
You can just go do something. You know what's even better,
2:17:36
Aiden? I haven't.
2:17:37
Found a 1 cup. Setting or programming that I've
2:17:42
liked more than my pour overs on the Aiden.
2:17:45
Do you ever use like an immersion Brewer?
2:17:49
Like a. Pulsar, I had a switch.
2:17:52
OK, yes, the same thing. Same.
2:17:53
Same. I gave it to.
2:17:54
Our sound guy at the end of the talk because I ran out of.
2:17:56
Space Natalie and Dez and I use the hoop as well which.
2:18:00
Is great. Yeah, I saw that.
2:18:01
And you can take your time with those, I mean you.
2:18:03
Kind of do. Port and have you got the fellow
2:18:06
espresso machine? Yes, it is.
2:18:09
Unbelievable. So I had a Lily Bianca.
2:18:13
Which is like kind. Of like, have one of those in
2:18:14
the UK. It's great.
2:18:15
It's a great machine. I've had it for like 5.
2:18:18
Years, I know it well. And the the roastery we have
2:18:22
these linear minis which we open the shop of and we just upgraded
2:18:27
to a linear PB. I believe it's called a proper
2:18:31
machine finally. So Rosie, the my partner and the
2:18:34
guy who actually runs everything and roasts everything.
2:18:37
I'm the money, he's the talent. He was like, hey, so we could
2:18:42
sell one of these and you can have the other one.
2:18:44
I was like sick. I want a Linea mini.
2:18:47
Those are great. And and I actually went down
2:18:50
there with my Lily Bianca. I'm like, I'm curious, let's
2:18:53
shoot it out. And the ES1 had arrived that day
2:18:55
and I brought my Lagam P-100 grinder.
2:18:57
I was like, all right, let's do a machine shootout.
2:19:00
I couldn't believe everyone knows the grinder makes all the
2:19:02
difference, but the machine does too.
2:19:04
I didn't realize how much of a difference it made and I could
2:19:07
walk home with any of those and I walked home with the ES1.
2:19:11
It was the best it one every time on a standard 9 bar shot.
2:19:15
It just beat it out every time. I couldn't believe it.
2:19:17
The price is like kind of good as well.
2:19:20
It's unbelievable. It's it's 1500 bucks if.
2:19:23
I were an espresso drinker. I would I would get one, but
2:19:25
I'm. Really not, but he made me a
2:19:27
couple earlier this week and they were great.
2:19:29
Insane. So I'd say save the money on the
2:19:32
machine get. An ES1 and then spend all that
2:19:34
money you save on the most insane grinder yeah because yeah
2:19:38
like that like it's I've been calling it the neural DSP of of
2:19:43
espresso machines because it has all the fucking sayings but
2:19:47
there. Is a technically an Axe FX,
2:19:49
which would be. The decent, which is like way
2:19:50
too far. It's like this is the friendly
2:19:52
one. This is the one that you don't
2:19:54
have to be nuts like and you can just get the profiles.
2:19:56
You could get the fellow drops. I sound I'm like I'm sponsored
2:19:59
by them. I'm not I just I'm not just
2:20:01
blown away if anyone one for free.
2:20:03
So yeah. Golden Lantern Coffee Roasters.
2:20:06
We haven't even said the name in.
2:20:07
Yeah, yeah, it's my roasting company.
2:20:09
It's fucking great. Oh.
2:20:10
Thanks however there's. One thing there was. 1.
2:20:14
That you made last year. Saddamo.
2:20:16
Yeah, Maybe one of the fucking best coffees I've ever had.
2:20:19
Yeah. The problem is that we have to
2:20:20
get them in stock. Yeah.
2:20:22
But here's the other thing. I.
2:20:24
Was supposed to get a RE up. It never arrived.
2:20:27
Just hit it. Hit me up or hit Rosie up.
2:20:29
Friends don't. Pay for coffee.
2:20:31
I hit Rosie up. He's a busy.
2:20:34
Man, no, no, no, no. You know we had a problem
2:20:36
because. I sent some stuff.
2:20:37
To Nollie and then I checked in with him like a week later and
2:20:40
he's like still I'm having I'm just putting you on the spot
2:20:42
because I I ran out but no, but we had a we.
2:20:44
Had a problem with shipping where it like it.
2:20:46
Just never arrived and we and we only just got the package back
2:20:49
like a a few days ago so we resent it Don't worry we'll
2:20:52
we'll send you some stuff. Well, I'll send you a nice care
2:20:54
package. Can I have?
2:20:55
I have to, of course. OK, it's sick.
2:20:58
I'm. Ready.
2:20:59
I think that's it. The cameras are running out,
2:21:00
Barry. If.
2:21:01
You want the longer episodes, I need you to go on the Patreon
2:21:04
because what's going to happen the last five minutes of this
2:21:06
episode would have been standard definition and it's not going to
2:21:10
last the test of time. The cards to the cards for these
2:21:13
cameras. I like, I was like, I need to
2:21:15
upgrade these cards. I'll do it with some patron
2:21:17
money, $534 each. Oh, wait for like the size that
2:21:21
I need the CF Express. Oh, because you're using CF
2:21:24
Express and I'm recording in 4K? 10 bit so like.
2:21:27
One episode of this podcast is 400 gigabytes and I've done 6
2:21:32
episodes this week. So the amount of storage
2:21:35
required to keep this podcast on the go is crazy.
2:21:39
But the, the the cloud price like that we're paying on cloud
2:21:43
storage across me and Simon is such an insane monthly because
2:21:48
it has to be terabytes. Yeah, Jesus, it cost money.
2:21:52
Patron.com forward. Slash downbeat.
2:21:55
I'm done. Are you done?
2:21:56
Yeah. Thanks, guys.
2:21:57
That was fun. You had fun.
2:21:59
Blessed. Thanks for having us on.
2:22:02
Thanks for pushing me out. Of my comfort zone.
2:22:03
I'm sorry, I'm sorry to do it. What's that T-shirt?
2:22:05
LA Apparel. I think it is actually.
2:22:08
You know why it was a sample. That we're looking at.
2:22:12
And we're not even. Using this cloth for the merch
2:22:15
we're doing LA power expensive. It's very expensive, especially.
2:22:18
But we're not going St. wear. Because you do it very well and
2:22:22
we don't want to. Really.
2:22:23
You can. No, we're not.
2:22:25
We're not doing it. Give me some money to do.
2:22:27
Your merch. Let's have a conversation.
2:22:29
About that, you know, it's funny.
2:22:30
I almost actually. I almost reached out to you and
2:22:32
was like, what would like, could you help us curate the the the
2:22:37
cloth, the product itself? You know what was funny?
2:22:40
Keep this on the podcast. I was.
2:22:42
Thinking about this two weeks ago because what's happened with
2:22:45
my merch? This is new merch for me, which
2:22:48
is what's great. What's happened because of this?
2:22:50
Thank you. Because of this whole thing.
2:22:52
Of like, prime example, I made an LA Apparel T-shirt last year
2:22:56
and I didn't really look at the numbers as much as I should have
2:22:59
done. And when I was revisiting
2:23:01
wanting to reprint it this year, the T-shirt cost itself to get
2:23:06
fully made was $32, which is like, you just can't do it.
2:23:10
Yeah, you just can't do it. So in the last three months, I
2:23:13
have found different manufacturers and, you know,
2:23:20
settled on 2 that are used for everything now, and it's kind of
2:23:24
sick. And now I'm like, so basically
2:23:26
took the middle man out of everything I do.
2:23:28
There's usually usually a middle man out here is my idea.
2:23:31
Let's make it. And now it's like, OK, I just go
2:23:34
straight to the factories now. And about two weeks ago I was
2:23:36
like, you should start like offering this to a few people
2:23:41
where I'll be like, let me do you a spread and we'll do it all
2:23:44
custom, do all the sampling and it'd be sick, my dear, in my
2:23:48
head. Good to know.
2:23:50
Well, it's out there. Let's talk about it anyway.
2:23:52
You can do a collab too. I don't know if you've done
2:23:54
that, but yeah, I've only done it on vinyl, but.
2:23:59
Let's talk. Let's get rid of this.
2:24:01
Love you guys. Thank you.
2:24:02
Thank you. Love you too.
2:24:03
Thanks for having us.