Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Savannah Guthrie Mom Missing: Day 5

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Savannah Guthrie Mom Missing: Day 5 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother missing Day five.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us in the last hours.
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Speaker 1: A presser from local law enforcement. This following literally a
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Speaker 1: heart breaking plea from Savannah, her sister Annie, and brother Cameron,
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Speaker 1: all three looking exhausted, bone weary. We'll play that back
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Speaker 1: for you in full in just a moment, but first
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Speaker 1: to the latest, I want you to hear what the
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Speaker 1: sheriff said in the last hours.
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Speaker 2: I'll go over it with you.
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Speaker 3: You can see it on the board there.
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Speaker 2: But at about five thirty two pm, these are approximate times.
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Speaker 2: Five thirty two pm, Nancy travels to her local family's
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Speaker 2: home for dinner and games with the family, just visiting.
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Speaker 2: At ninety eight pm, which is very consistent to what
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Speaker 2: we were told by the family, that Nancy was dropped
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Speaker 2: off at home, and we know that because we have
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Speaker 2: a garage door open at approximately I can't stress that
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Speaker 2: enough at approximately ninety eight pm at nine fifty pm,
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Speaker 2: that garage door closes because that time we assume that
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Speaker 2: Nancy's home and probably going to bed. Sunday morning, early
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Speaker 2: morning at one forty seven am. The door doorbell camera
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Speaker 2: disconnects at two twelve am. Software detects a person on
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Speaker 2: a camera, but there's no video available. They had no
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Speaker 2: subscription and therefore it would rewrite itself kind of. It
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Speaker 2: just kind of loops right and covers up. That's what
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Speaker 2: our analysis teams have told us. We're not done with that.
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Speaker 2: We'll do all we can. But that's what it says.
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Speaker 2: So detects a person on camera. Could that be an animal?
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Speaker 2: I imagine that's possible. We don't know that. We just
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Speaker 2: have no video. Well, we're not giving up on that.
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Speaker 2: To twenty eight, Nancy's pacemaker app shows that it was
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Speaker 2: a disconnect from the phone, and at eleven fifty six am,
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Speaker 2: the family checks on Nancy, discovers her missing, and at
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Speaker 2: twelve o three pm nine to one one is called
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Speaker 2: in to the pencutter Chef's department.
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Speaker 1: What are we learning? Nine forty eight the garage door opens,
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Speaker 1: nine it closes. Door cam disconnects one seven nine ten
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Speaker 1: eleven twelve one four hours later. Well, I don't see
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Speaker 1: how they can say this is a coincidence. This is
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Speaker 1: an animal. The door cam disconnects at one forty seven
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Speaker 1: two twelve. Software detects a person on camera and I'm
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Speaker 1: gonna have to have Fitzgibbons explain what he's saying about
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Speaker 1: looping and covering it up to twenty eight wow. Sixteen
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Speaker 1: minutes later, her pacemaker disconnects from the phone, which means simply,
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Speaker 1: it goes twenty thirty feet away from her iPhone which
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Speaker 1: was left there in the home. Doesn't mean it quit working.
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Speaker 1: It means it got away from the phone. The phone
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Speaker 1: can't trace it anymore. Eleven fifty six Family checks on
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Speaker 1: Nancy twelve oh three. It's on joining me tonight an
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Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we are
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Speaker 1: learning now we just got that timeline so much as
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Speaker 1: being made of is one of the family a suspect?
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Speaker 1: And we heard the share of today's stay. We don't
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Speaker 1: have a suspect, we don't have a person of interest.
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Speaker 1: Yet everyone is under suspicion. That's what they always say.
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Speaker 1: Everybody is under suspicion. But what would it take Bethany
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Speaker 1: Marshall for family members to sit with her that evening,
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Speaker 1: be with her and pretend nothing was going to happen,
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Speaker 1: all the while plotting and planning her kidnap and faking it.
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Speaker 1: I just did you see Savannah Guthrie, sister Annie and
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Speaker 1: brother Cameron. They did not look like any of them
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Speaker 1: were faking it. I know Savannah, She's not faking it.
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Speaker 1: I get a deluge of people online suggesting she is
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Speaker 1: somehow part of this. That's just ridiculous. No, that did
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Speaker 1: not happen. But look at their demeanors, doctor Beth, and
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Speaker 1: let's just clear that up right now.
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Speaker 4: Nancy's children are not responsible for this. They are not.
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Speaker 4: I mean I look at their demeanor, their distraught, their concerned.
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Speaker 4: This is their mother. We don't have any history to
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Speaker 4: suggest that they had an antagonistic relationship with their mother.
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Speaker 4: They she was invited into the home on a Saturday
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Speaker 4: night to play games and hang out with the family.
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Speaker 4: This is a beloved mother and grandmother. Now what we
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Speaker 4: don't know, and I keep waiting for this, is we
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Speaker 4: don't know about caregivers, gardeners, people who are coming in
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Speaker 4: and out of her life, bankers, financial people. There's somebody
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Speaker 4: in her inner circle, somebody she confides in, maybe outside
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Speaker 4: of her, her the sibling group of her children, who
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Speaker 4: might know something about somebody who is pestering her, bothering
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Speaker 4: her somebody she has a suspicion about. And that's what
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Speaker 4: I'm really, really so curious about, and none of that
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Speaker 4: has come out so.
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Speaker 1: Far, Doctor Bethany, Again, I want to look at Savannah,
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Speaker 1: Annie and Cameron last night. Again, I am getting dailies
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Speaker 1: with people suggesting that they are somehow part of their
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Speaker 1: own mother's disappearance. They say, look at Annie, she's not moving,
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Speaker 1: she's not saying anything. Well, clearly, they designated Savannah to speak,
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Speaker 1: that's what she does for a living. They're numb. I've
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Speaker 1: got to defend them, Doctor Bethany. There, nom they're exhausted.
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Speaker 1: That's why they're not lively and chattering in the background.
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Speaker 4: I'm going to use a clinical term. They're dissociated. We
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Speaker 4: dissociate when the reality is unbearable. This is unbearable. Their
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Speaker 4: dear mother is gone. There is blood on the front doorstep.
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Speaker 4: They can't even contemplate, Nancy, you've talked about your mother.
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Speaker 4: If something happened to her, you wouldn't. You would panic,
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Speaker 4: But then you would become numb too, because the possibilities
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Speaker 4: are so overwhelming. They don't know if their mother is
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Speaker 4: being if she's alive, if she's dead. They can't even
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Speaker 4: feel her. See, that's what we're seeing.
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Speaker 1: You know, I was looking very you said, I was
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Speaker 1: looking very carefully at that door photo, the photo of
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Speaker 1: the front door and the step way, the driveway walkway
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Speaker 1: where there's blood. If you look carefully to the right
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Speaker 1: of that double lock, there is a red smudge and
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Speaker 1: it's in close proximity to the blood on the ground
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Speaker 1: on the walkway. Is that Nancy's blood? Now we've been
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Speaker 1: told and correct me if I'm wrong, Dave mac that
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Speaker 1: there was no blood on the interior of the home
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Speaker 1: that they've been able to identify yet.
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Speaker 5: I would I would make sure you say yet. They
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Speaker 5: haven't said that it's been there yet, but they did
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Speaker 5: identify the blood right there at the entryway as being Nancy.
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Speaker 1: Well, if there's blood on the inside, then why haven't
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Speaker 1: they identified that either? And you know another thing joining
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Speaker 1: US guys Brian Fitzgibbons from USPA Nationwide Security for a living.
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Speaker 1: He leads a team of investigators that go worldwide finding
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Speaker 1: missing people. You can get blood DNA analysis back overnight
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Speaker 1: almost immediately. I don't know what they're talking about that
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Speaker 1: they're waiting on samples. Maybe they've gotten unidentified DNA and
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Speaker 1: they're trying to get a sample from that that would
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Speaker 1: take longer.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that there's probably some touch DNA from
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Speaker 6: the inside that they're looking to analyze. And with now
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Speaker 6: the FBI announcing that they're jointly on this case, the
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Speaker 6: ability to process these things much faster is going to
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Speaker 6: come into play. So, you know, I think in the
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Speaker 6: coming days we're going to learn a lot more about the.
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Speaker 1: DNA crime stories with Nancy Grace. So the mom is
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Speaker 1: dropped off early in the evening, around nine four. That's
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Speaker 1: when the garage door has activity nine fifty. The garage
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Speaker 1: door closes with me. As I mentioned, an all star
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Speaker 1: panel Dave matt Crime Stori's investigative reporter on this case
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Speaker 1: from the very beginning, Brian Fitzgibbons, I just introduced you
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Speaker 1: to him USPA Nationwide Security and a renounced psychoanalyst, doctor
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, joining us out of LA She's the author
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Speaker 1: of deal Breakers. You can see her starring on Peacock
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Speaker 1: Now and find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. We're
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Speaker 1: talking about the timeline. Looking at the timeline one forty
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Speaker 1: seven a m. The doorbell disconnects one seven a m
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Speaker 1: the door cam doorbell cam disconnects two twelve AM software
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Speaker 1: detects a person on camera, but see the camera part
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Speaker 1: of that has been disconnected. So while the software is
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Speaker 1: picking up movement, the cam isn't seeing it. That's how
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Speaker 1: I understand it. But then Brian Fitzgibbons, he launches into
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Speaker 1: some discussion that it could have been an animal. My
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Speaker 1: question is why would the door cam disconnect. I mean,
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Speaker 1: look in the picture, there's just a silver circle where
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Speaker 1: the doorcam used to be. Right, it's that silver thing
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Speaker 1: right there. That's where the doorcam used to be. It
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Speaker 1: fit right there. It's gone. Now what is he trying
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Speaker 1: to say? What is he saying? Brian?
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Speaker 3: The animal? The animal comment was perplexing.
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Speaker 6: I believe what the sheriff is saying is that at
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Speaker 6: one seven that doorbell camera was removed from its base
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Speaker 6: so that there was some digital log in the camera
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Speaker 6: to that effect. And now at two twelve you have
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Speaker 6: to understand and nest camera has three modes home, away,
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Speaker 6: and off, and in the home mode it will still
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Speaker 6: register seeing a person and that will log that data
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Speaker 6: in a log that it saw a person. But it
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Speaker 6: won't be recording well in home mode, so you know,
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Speaker 6: was the camera.
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Speaker 3: In home mode, it just made it log that event.
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Speaker 3: That's what it seems to be to me.
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Speaker 6: I don't think that these cameras are going to mistake
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Speaker 6: a person for an animals.
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Speaker 3: Most of the cameras nowadays will.
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Speaker 6: Accurately record, you know, if they see a dog or
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Speaker 6: a deer walk by it.
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Speaker 3: It will record an animal over a person.
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Speaker 1: I've been saying, Ringmel, it's a nest. You're right, Brian.
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Speaker 1: Now tell me how that works again. And I want
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Speaker 1: to make what you say and what he said both
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Speaker 1: be true. I want you to reconcile what he said,
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Speaker 1: decipher it, and tell me what happened.
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Speaker 6: What it sounds like to me, Nancy, is that that
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Speaker 6: camera was popped off from the inside of the house
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Speaker 6: so it didn't register seeing anybody, and then when it
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Speaker 6: was moved at two twelve, it actually sees a person.
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Speaker 6: So I think what we can see, what we can
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Speaker 6: glean from this timeline is the doorbell camera is disconnected
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Speaker 6: off the base. Twenty five minutes later, that camera is
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Speaker 6: moved and it's pointing in the direction that it actually
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Speaker 6: registers contact with a person.
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Speaker 1: Let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
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Speaker 2: The doorbell camera, it was removed, We know that, but
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Speaker 2: we're not confirming that any cameras were smashed or destroyed
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Speaker 2: around the house.
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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Dave mac speaking of cameras quote around
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Speaker 1: the house, is that you're understanding there were granny cams,
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Speaker 1: as I call the ones we have for my mom.
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Speaker 1: You know, there's nanny cams, I call them granny camp
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Speaker 1: Were there granny cams in Missus Guthrie's home.
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Speaker 5: That is what has been reported that there were granny cams,
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Speaker 5: as you say, in the home that were there and
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Speaker 5: covering certain areas of the home, so that if Missus
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Speaker 5: Guthrie were to fall down or become in capacitated, they
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Speaker 5: would be they being the family or whoever had access,
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Speaker 5: which were told a very small group of people had
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Speaker 5: access to the cameras and they could actually see what
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Speaker 5: was taking place inside the home while she was alone.
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Speaker 5: We've pointed this out. Eighty four years old, great mental health, physically,
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Speaker 5: she's got some issues walking around, so it makes sense
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Speaker 5: that they would have cameras inside the house. Interesting that
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Speaker 5: the sheriff wasn't asked a question about the cameras inside
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Speaker 5: the home. He volunteered that information, saying that they didn't,
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Speaker 5: you know, have smashed. His comment was, I don't know
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Speaker 5: where you're getting that information. Smashed cameras inside that home
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Speaker 5: would indicate somebody was in there that ay knew the
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Speaker 5: cameras were new where they were placed, and also knew
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Speaker 5: where they were angled to pick up movement of Missus
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Speaker 5: Guthrie inside the home, and that individual or people are
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Speaker 5: persons who has been able to avoid showing up on
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Speaker 5: those camera angles so they wouldn't be picked up.
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Speaker 1: I believe his words were to the effect, no cameras
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Speaker 1: inside the house were destroyed, which tells me that there
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Speaker 1: are cameras inside the house. I mean, am I reading
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Speaker 1: that incorrectly? Guys?
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Speaker 3: No, you're absolutely right.
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Speaker 6: That's exactly what we learned from that statement from the sheriff,
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Speaker 6: that there are cameras inside the house. He has also
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Speaker 6: unfortunately indicated that they don't seem to have any of
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Speaker 6: the footage from those cameras.
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Speaker 3: He mentioned a couple of things.
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Speaker 1: He said something Brian about looping and covering itself, looping
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Speaker 1: over and covering up images of someone. What is he saying?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, that I was trying to figure out Nancy, and
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Speaker 6: my best crack at that is basically, maybe it was
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Speaker 6: the mode that this camera was set in, that it
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Speaker 6: was not set to record, but it was logging events,
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Speaker 6: and that they're working with Nest and Google to try
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Speaker 6: to extract that.
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Speaker 1: Another question I have is that two twelve am software
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Speaker 1: detects movement on the camera, but the Nest has already
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Speaker 1: been disconnected. So I'm trying to reconcile that. Does that
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Speaker 1: mean it picks up movement but it can no longer
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Speaker 1: record an image or it doesn't record an image only movement.
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Speaker 1: Could you break it down in simple terms.
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Speaker 6: Brian, Yeah, to explain this simply, these doorbell camera cameras
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Speaker 6: will have battery power to them, Okay, so you could
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Speaker 6: disconnect it from that base. Then an event gets logged,
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Speaker 6: you know, within its software, and that now you've moved it,
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Speaker 6: but it's not seeing any person as it's moving.
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Speaker 3: When you turn that, you know.
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Speaker 6: Twenty five minutes later, somebody picks it up and it's
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Speaker 6: pointing towards a person.
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Speaker 3: Now it's logging that event again that it saw the person.
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Speaker 1: So it logs it, but is there an image because
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Speaker 1: he's saying it loops over. Did it ever record an image?
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Speaker 1: What I'm getting at. If it ever did record an image,
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Speaker 1: whether it looped over it or not, could that be
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Speaker 1: obtained from the cloud or is it connected to a
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Speaker 1: local server.
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Speaker 6: My assumption would be that it did not, that it
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Speaker 6: did not record an image.
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Speaker 1: Guys, we're also hearing more about ransom notes.
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Speaker 7: So the restural note that was distributed to the media
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Speaker 7: did make a demand for five pm today and if
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Speaker 7: a transfer wasn't made, then I think a second demand
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Speaker 7: was for next Monday. We're not going to go beyond
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Speaker 7: that without what's the restom note the media.
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Speaker 1: Received, Well, it seems to me they've missed today's five
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Speaker 1: pm deadline, so we've got another deadline. Got a question,
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Speaker 1: did you guys glean that the ransom note sent to
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Speaker 1: at least two, possibly three news outlets or the exact
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Speaker 1: same ransom note. That's my understanding as we go to
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Speaker 1: air right now. What about it, Dave mac It.
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Speaker 5: Seems to be that is the case because they they
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Speaker 5: being the Sheriff's Department. Law enforcement has not indicated that
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Speaker 5: they were all different individual and what is being reported
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Speaker 5: is consistent from all outlets so far. You'll have got
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Speaker 5: let's they're in Tucson Local TV. But then you've got
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Speaker 5: the national angle of it with DMZ and they appear
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Speaker 5: to all say the same information. So whether they're identical,
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Speaker 5: I don't know. But it was emailed to the outlets,
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Speaker 5: and that would be indicative of easy enough just to
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Speaker 5: you know, copy and paste or forward whatever you want
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Speaker 5: to do.
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Speaker 1: Okay, if it's emailed, why don't we have the IP provider?
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Speaker 1: But how are ways that criminals hide the location from
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Speaker 1: which they send an email?
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Speaker 6: Brian, yes, so they could use a series of VPNs
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Speaker 6: to protect this, you know, where they created the email accounts.
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Speaker 6: You know, depending on how nuanced they are, they could
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Speaker 6: make this very very difficult. Now, what I will say is,
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Speaker 6: if there's any team, the FBI is probably the best.
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Speaker 3: In the world at unwinding that.
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Speaker 6: So you know, it takes time, and I think that
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Speaker 6: that is something that they're clearly clearly focused on.
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Speaker 1: Now, when you say VPN, you mean a virtual private network,
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Speaker 1: How does that work? Because it seems to me that
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Speaker 1: that could easily be pierced. You're on your computer and
18:48
Speaker 1: you go to private browser, I mean, how do you
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Speaker 1: how do you do vp and Brian no.
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Speaker 3: This would be far more nuanced.
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Speaker 6: In order to hide your identity from the FBI, it
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Speaker 6: would be far more nuanced than subscribing to a VPN service.
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Speaker 6: You would need to have planned out the devices you're
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Speaker 6: going to use, how you're going to connect to the internet,
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Speaker 6: and then layering filtering that message through multiple devices that
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Speaker 6: might be not located with you. So I'd be unable
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Speaker 6: to predict exactly how they did it. But my guess
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Speaker 6: is it was a pretty nuanced effort to protect that.
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Speaker 1: So it's more than just an email masking service like
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Speaker 1: Simple log In or Firefox Relay. It's not just an
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Speaker 1: email masking service. Could you be a little more clear
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Speaker 1: about how it's done.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess The key point that I'm trying to
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Speaker 6: make is, if you're going to hide your identity in
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Speaker 6: sending an email from the FBI, it's not going to
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Speaker 6: be a nine to ninety nine a month subscription service
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Speaker 6: that you log into sign up for. You know you're
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Speaker 6: going to have to have some pretty advanced technical skills
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Speaker 6: to at least delay that process. Might be is that
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Speaker 6: they will be able to find the origin of that email.
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Speaker 6: How long it'll take, I don't know.
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Speaker 1: Bottom line though, if they find the origin of the email,
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Speaker 1: it could be an internet cafe where somebody goes in
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Speaker 1: in disguise even though they're recorded, and they log on
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Speaker 1: with a fake email, and they send the ransom and
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Speaker 1: they send it to the three news outlets, including Team
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Speaker 1: Z and KOLD. So how is that going to help me?
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Speaker 1: Can the FBI ultimately pierce that? And when they do
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Speaker 1: pierce it and they find somebody sitting there at internet
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Speaker 1: cafe with the disguise on, then what did they do?
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Speaker 3: Brian?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean in that example you just gave, that
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Speaker 6: would probably be the safest way. But at least they
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Speaker 6: now know, you know, hey, this person was in this
21:02
Speaker 6: area and that's where they're going to start to zero
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Speaker 6: in detecting cell phone patterns.
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Speaker 3: Was that cell phone near Nancy Guthrie's house?
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Speaker 8: You know?
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Speaker 6: Now they can start to connect the dots further to
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Speaker 6: try to narrow down who it was, whether they were
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Speaker 6: in the disguise or not.
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Speaker 1: You know, I'm wondering about also pill counts, pill counts.
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Speaker 1: We know that she cannot survive without her mets. What
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Speaker 1: about it, Doctor Bethany Marshall. If the perp knew which
21:35
Speaker 1: way her nest cams were pointed in order to avoid
21:39
Speaker 1: them new to disable. The one on the door managed
21:45
Speaker 1: to escape being caught on camera. Sent this by private
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Speaker 1: network to protect their identity through layers and layers and
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Speaker 1: filters and filters. The ransom note, would they know enough
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Speaker 1: to take her pills to keep her alive? Pills mads
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Speaker 1: were there, But how many mads? How many pills?
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Speaker 4: You know, Nancy, if you really want to get money
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Speaker 4: for kidnapping, you want a ransom, right, you want to
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Speaker 4: keep the kidnapped person alive. But I think that in
22:25
Speaker 4: a case like this with an elderly person, I don't
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Speaker 4: know that they're thinking that far ahead. I mean, there's
22:30
Speaker 4: some kind of desperation that drives a move like this.
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Speaker 4: I'm thinking about the motivations for a kidnap. You want money,
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Speaker 4: right you. Maybe you're envious. Maybe you hate Savannah Guthrie
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Speaker 4: because she has an incredible career. Maybe, like Brian Koberger,
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Speaker 4: you are going to.
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Speaker 1: Just stop, stop, stop place place. I'm not writing a
22:51
Speaker 1: fifth grade girl's novel. She hates Savannah, so she creates
22:57
Speaker 1: a huge plot to cross the kind of tree to
23:00
Speaker 1: too sing out in the desert and steal her mother.
23:03
Speaker 1: No on all this business. Oh, it's because Savannah was
23:07
Speaker 1: going to cover Epstein in an unaired segment.
23:10
Speaker 4: No. I think it's a little different, Nancy.
23:13
Speaker 1: I think if any connection to Savannah, it's this they
23:17
Speaker 1: want money, money, Hanna has money, exactly.
23:21
Speaker 4: Mean, that's very simple, Nancy. That's the connective line. I
23:25
Speaker 4: see too. Money. People when they see money, they want it.
23:31
Speaker 4: And that's why I was wondering earlier about caregivers, gardeners,
23:35
Speaker 4: anybody in her life, even church members, who knew that
23:39
Speaker 4: that Nancy was connected to somebody wealthy and famous and
23:44
Speaker 4: wanting to target that person for their money. Is you know, Nancy.
23:50
Speaker 4: Even like when there's an elderly person who dies in
23:52
Speaker 4: a family, often the surviving sibling group falls apart because
23:58
Speaker 4: somebody in that sibling group wants the money. Money is
24:03
Speaker 4: such a driver behind crime. So who in Nancy's life
24:08
Speaker 4: knew about the wealth that her daughter had and who
24:13
Speaker 4: might have wanted that wealth?
24:21
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace guys. Another issue that has
24:30
Speaker 1: now been made public by law enforcement. Leaning media had
24:33
Speaker 1: already heard it and did not report it, including us,
24:37
Speaker 1: was that her pacemaker disconnected. It disconnected around two twenty eight. Now,
24:46
Speaker 1: that again does not mean that she died and her
24:51
Speaker 1: pacemaker quit working. It means that more likely that she
24:56
Speaker 1: was out of range from her phone, which we know
24:59
Speaker 1: was left behind. What did he say, Dave Matt, What.
25:03
Speaker 5: Did you glean that the pacemaker disconnecting from the phone.
25:07
Speaker 5: You know, it's connected via bluetooth, which means you've got
25:10
Speaker 5: a twenty foot range. It doesn't mean that she was
25:15
Speaker 5: that she passed away. It doesn't mean anything other than
25:18
Speaker 5: her phone was there on the nightstand and she was
25:21
Speaker 5: no longer within twenty feet of that phone. So that's
25:25
Speaker 5: pretty much where they're leaving that particular comment. I'm talking
25:28
Speaker 5: about law enforcement talking about the pacemaker and what it
25:31
Speaker 5: means by disconnecting doesn't mean she's you know, that she
25:34
Speaker 5: fell out, doesn't mean that she It just means that
25:37
Speaker 5: she was no longer within twenty.
25:38
Speaker 1: Feet two rayv Is Gibbons joining us from USPA Nationwide Security. Earlier,
25:44
Speaker 1: one of our experts, Christmas gunn And, noted that when
25:48
Speaker 1: law enforcement left Sister Annie's house, they had a looked
25:53
Speaker 1: like a wooden but a box with them. He says
25:57
Speaker 1: that that is a you fed. You are using Utah
26:01
Speaker 1: fed as em FedEx, which is a tool implementing Celebrate
26:08
Speaker 1: Celebrate analyzes and can download very quickly all digital data
26:16
Speaker 1: from a location. We saw a very in depth explanation
26:20
Speaker 1: of Celebrate on the witness stand from the Secret Service
26:23
Speaker 1: in the Alex Murdock case. That's when many people first
26:26
Speaker 1: found out about it. Explain if mcgonn is right what
26:31
Speaker 1: they did in Annie's home.
26:33
Speaker 6: Yeah, so this this Celebrate you fed case that the
26:37
Speaker 6: images were shared on social media. That what that's able
26:40
Speaker 6: to do is a complete extraction of all mobile phone data, contacts, SMS, messages, pictures, videos,
26:49
Speaker 6: call logs, audio files. It's going to do a full
26:54
Speaker 6: memory dump of that phone system, providing you know, even
26:59
Speaker 6: old files that were deleted, passwords, et cetera.
27:03
Speaker 3: So it's gonna that that.
27:06
Speaker 6: Kit is a mobile kit that is assigned to that
27:09
Speaker 6: team that they brought there. You know, we can draw
27:14
Speaker 6: some conclusions from that. You know, are they just excluding
27:17
Speaker 6: family members? They want to get an image of those
27:19
Speaker 6: phones in that process, that's the most likely scenario.
27:23
Speaker 1: Okay, Brian, one more time and slowly, what does the
27:26
Speaker 1: you f ed do? Very slowly? How does it work?
27:28
Speaker 6: So the you fed is going to be able to
27:31
Speaker 6: connect to any mobile device and provide a complete extraction. Basically,
27:38
Speaker 6: they're going to get contacts, SMS, messages, photos, videos, call logs,
27:44
Speaker 6: any audio files, all the Imei data, anything that's on
27:50
Speaker 6: that simcard will be imaged by that you fed.
27:53
Speaker 1: Device and it gets it immediately. Then it's got to
27:57
Speaker 1: be analyzed. And I'd like to point out to everyone,
28:01
Speaker 1: all you legal legals already know this. The first place
28:04
Speaker 1: law enforcement looks is at those closest to the victim.
28:09
Speaker 1: So of course they're looking at the family. So the
28:12
Speaker 1: first thing you do is rule them out. Then you
28:16
Speaker 1: move out to people that worked with Nancy Guthrie, people
28:21
Speaker 1: that cut her grass, people that trimmed her trees, people
28:24
Speaker 1: that delivered mail, FedEx guys ups, the people next door,
28:30
Speaker 1: the people in the neighborhood, the people at the grocery store,
28:34
Speaker 1: the people at the church, the granny nannies if there
28:37
Speaker 1: are any, and the granny nanny sons and the granny
28:40
Speaker 1: nanny husbands, and it goes out and out until you
28:45
Speaker 1: catch the person. Now, this person, I'm telling you and
28:49
Speaker 1: guys jump in is somebody local, because why would they
28:53
Speaker 1: have sent the ransom notes to Kold and TMZ possibly
29:00
Speaker 1: k gun k g u n because they're local. How
29:04
Speaker 1: would they know where she lived out literally in the
29:09
Speaker 1: middle of the desert and this desert enclave. How would
29:13
Speaker 1: they know about the granny cams and the nest cam?
29:19
Speaker 1: Were they watching to see when she was brought home?
29:22
Speaker 1: When that garage door closed? All of this suggests someone
29:28
Speaker 1: that knows her or the family fairly well or can
29:32
Speaker 1: access that information. Also, yesterday we saw La come back
29:39
Speaker 1: to the scene and go back and forth to the
29:42
Speaker 1: garage with canines. Now we know part of the timeline
29:47
Speaker 1: is the up and down of the garage door. Put
29:52
Speaker 1: all this together, Brian Fitzgibbons, what do you think.
29:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, So with the up and down in the garage
29:59
Speaker 6: door in the time line, you know, they're certainly going
30:01
Speaker 6: to find out, you know, is that a normal minute
30:05
Speaker 6: and a half two minute gap from when Nancy's in
30:08
Speaker 6: and out of the house. If they have that data,
30:10
Speaker 6: they're going to be able to get past data as
30:12
Speaker 6: well to verify that nothing jumps off the page to me.
30:16
Speaker 3: There, what I think is.
30:19
Speaker 6: Really really a big question about this timeline is with
30:25
Speaker 6: relation to the doorbell camera, there's a twenty five minute
30:28
Speaker 6: gap from when that camera was disconnected to when that
30:32
Speaker 6: person is registered. The software detects a person, right, What
30:37
Speaker 6: happened within that twenty five minutes? And how was nothing
30:41
Speaker 6: captured by these other cameras inside the house?
30:44
Speaker 3: You know those are the main that's the big question.
30:47
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Hey, do you see the two twelve am guys?
30:51
Speaker 1: Software detects person on camera? Is that the doorcam or
30:56
Speaker 1: is that the inside cam where Elson is detected on camera?
31:01
Speaker 1: What about it, Dave matt Because we know she had
31:04
Speaker 1: a spike and her pacemaker at two am exactly.
31:08
Speaker 5: So we know there's something going on in that house,
31:11
Speaker 5: regardless of what law enforcement is willing to say. At
31:14
Speaker 5: this point, you mentioned that a person it appears on
31:20
Speaker 5: camera or motion is detected of a person. It's not
31:24
Speaker 5: a big leap to think we've got action taking place
31:28
Speaker 5: in and around the home and Nancy Guthrie becoming intensely
31:34
Speaker 5: aggravated moving somewhere that her pacemaker reacts to that. We've
31:39
Speaker 5: got this very very tight window here of activity that
31:45
Speaker 5: one can only look at the facts in front of
31:47
Speaker 5: you and say, well, that's when she had to Something
31:51
Speaker 5: happened to Nancy Guthrie in the time of twenty eight.
31:55
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this. The door cam disconnects
31:59
Speaker 1: one seven at two twelve, a person is detected on camera.
32:05
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, at two am there is entry missing.
32:09
Speaker 1: At two am we get a spike on her pacemaker.
32:14
Speaker 1: Does that mean the door cam disconnects. They're in the
32:21
Speaker 1: home at two am, waking her up, rousting her out
32:26
Speaker 1: of bed or off the sofa. To twelve am to
32:31
Speaker 1: software disconnect a person to software detect a person outside
32:38
Speaker 1: or movement inside taking her out of her bedroom two
32:43
Speaker 1: twenty eight, she's out of range. So what do you believe,
32:50
Speaker 1: Dave mac That two am spike on her pacemaker indicates.
32:54
Speaker 5: I believe that, tied together with the one forty seven
32:58
Speaker 5: am indicator, that she was rousted out of bed, and
33:02
Speaker 5: I believe it was probably very physical to get her
33:05
Speaker 5: out of bed. You know, this is not a person
33:08
Speaker 5: who moves around easily. Somebody inside the home is going
33:12
Speaker 5: to want to get in and out of there quickly.
33:14
Speaker 5: They're not going to be gentle, They're not going to
33:15
Speaker 5: wake her up with some music. They're going to wake
33:18
Speaker 5: her up to a point where she is going to
33:21
Speaker 5: react in the state of shock, panic, and fear.
33:24
Speaker 1: So that would make a sense.
33:25
Speaker 5: That makes sense for me at two am having that
33:28
Speaker 5: spike thirteen minutes after we get the indicator, and again
33:32
Speaker 5: when you look at what else is coming up, it
33:35
Speaker 5: just shows you that some kind of chaos is taking
33:37
Speaker 5: place and she has reacted to it, and we know
33:40
Speaker 5: that we have her blood going out of the home.
33:43
Speaker 5: Between the time that we get that first indicator of
33:46
Speaker 5: one forty seven, the two am spike and then two
33:49
Speaker 5: twenty eight, fancy, it tells you a lot.
33:52
Speaker 1: It was over so quickly, her being taken from the home.
33:56
Speaker 1: What do you make of the two a m spike
34:00
Speaker 1: as it fits into the timeline, Doctor bethany.
34:02
Speaker 4: Well, I agree with Dave mac I think that somebody
34:05
Speaker 4: tried to get her out of bed, somebody who was
34:08
Speaker 4: unfamiliar to her. So you have the inner circle, you
34:11
Speaker 4: have adult children, you have maybe the church members, you
34:16
Speaker 4: have people who know her intimately, and then you have
34:20
Speaker 4: the next outer ring of people who know her intimates.
34:25
Speaker 4: Maybe it's the spouse of the gardener. Maybe it's the
34:29
Speaker 4: a caregiver or a nurse who comes in and you know, gives, gives,
34:33
Speaker 4: administers medication, and that she goes home and talks to
34:36
Speaker 4: her adult children or something like that. You have an
34:39
Speaker 4: out of circle, somebody who's she's not that familiar with,
34:42
Speaker 4: who tries to get her out of bed, and that's
34:46
Speaker 4: where you see that spike. So Nancy, I'm going to
34:49
Speaker 4: go back to this idea that olderly people are their targets, right,
34:55
Speaker 4: They're very vulnerable, and especially when there's wealth and she
34:59
Speaker 4: has a beautiful home. I've seen that neighborhood. All these
35:01
Speaker 4: lots are one to four acres. Anybody who goes through
35:04
Speaker 4: that neighborhood knows that Nancy, that Nancy has money, right,
35:09
Speaker 4: and so they're enticed by the stories of the people
35:13
Speaker 4: in the inner circle, and they're thinking about how can
35:17
Speaker 4: I utilize Nancy to get some financial gain. And so
35:22
Speaker 4: when you got back to the spike, somebody's getting her
35:25
Speaker 4: out of bed who maybe is tangentially related to her,
35:28
Speaker 4: but is not a primary person in her life.
35:31
Speaker 1: Guys are seeing a segment on the Today Show Savannah
35:34
Speaker 1: and her Mom that was taken off YouTube. It was
35:38
Speaker 1: an Arizona homecoming where Savannah went back home. There's a
35:43
Speaker 1: lot of speculation that whoever plotted this saw this segment
35:48
Speaker 1: and became aware of Nancy Guthrie, I don't necessarily believe
35:53
Speaker 1: that because I believe the perp is local anyway, that
35:58
Speaker 1: is from YouTube and to you gives where do you
36:01
Speaker 1: what do you think the two AM spyte indicates.
36:04
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm in agreement with doctor Bethany and Dave that
36:08
Speaker 6: you know what we're seeing is is likely the perpetrator
36:12
Speaker 6: removed that was had already gained access to the residents
36:17
Speaker 6: by one seven. And I think an important note here
36:21
Speaker 6: that we haven't talked about to conduct an operation like
36:27
Speaker 6: this to abduct someone, it's going to take two people,
36:30
Speaker 6: right There's there's very likely not one person doing this
36:34
Speaker 6: to pull her out of the house, put her in
36:36
Speaker 6: a vehicle and drive her away, all right, So you know,
36:39
Speaker 6: I think what you see on the timeline is, hey,
36:41
Speaker 6: take the camera off.
36:43
Speaker 3: Persons now in the house.
36:45
Speaker 6: Two am is probably when they made first contact with Nancy,
36:51
Speaker 6: and I believe that the data bears that out.
36:53
Speaker 1: And in the middle of all this trying to financi
36:56
Speaker 1: gather and bring her home alive and uster Ransomer emerges.
37:03
Speaker 1: What happened?
37:04
Speaker 5: Todave Matt had the first hint that there was a
37:06
Speaker 5: ransom note when TMZ went live before they went to
37:10
Speaker 5: police with the note. We have this ransom note appearing
37:13
Speaker 5: at Kold and Kgun in Tucson, so it's public knowledge
37:18
Speaker 5: that ransom notes have occurred. However, the FBI investigates another
37:24
Speaker 5: ransom note that comes in now. This is one we
37:27
Speaker 5: don't know much about. But what we do know is
37:30
Speaker 5: that the FBI made an arrest today and it was
37:33
Speaker 5: of a ransom hoax. It was not similar to the
37:37
Speaker 5: other ransom notes that had been supported at this point.
37:41
Speaker 5: Suspected it was a hoax, and they were able to
37:43
Speaker 5: arrest that individual trying to take advantage of the worst
37:46
Speaker 5: possible thing for a family to go through right now,
37:49
Speaker 5: So he's already been arrest He or she has already
37:52
Speaker 5: been arrested. Han't got a name or anything else, but
37:54
Speaker 5: we'll find that out.
37:55
Speaker 1: Dave Matt, you have a concern.
37:57
Speaker 5: I'm really concerned that the home was treated as a
38:00
Speaker 5: I'm seen very early on they being law enforcement, did
38:04
Speaker 5: all the work they wanted to do and release the
38:06
Speaker 5: home back to the family. But then yesterday afternoon we
38:10
Speaker 5: get word that they've got yellow tape up and they
38:13
Speaker 5: have blocked everything thing off and law enforcement. They've got
38:17
Speaker 5: FBI they've got guys in tacticle gear and canine units
38:20
Speaker 5: are out at the site again and it's an explosion
38:24
Speaker 5: of activity after the place the home has already been
38:27
Speaker 5: released back to the family. That bothers me immensely because
38:31
Speaker 5: I wonder what did they miss the first time and
38:34
Speaker 5: why is it all of a sudden becoming a big
38:36
Speaker 5: issue again.
38:37
Speaker 1: Well obviously, and chime in, Fitzgibbons if you disagree. They
38:41
Speaker 1: should never have released the crime saying the crime scene
38:44
Speaker 1: should not be open now, it should be locked down.
38:47
Speaker 1: Everybody and their sister can go over there and poke around.
38:50
Speaker 1: Why has it been released? I think it's a horrible idea.
38:55
Speaker 1: What about it? And that opens up clients from an
38:58
Speaker 1: ultimate defense team that someone else came in and tampered
39:01
Speaker 1: with the scene and planet evidence. That's where that goes.
39:04
Speaker 6: Brian, I couldn't agree more that scene should have been
39:08
Speaker 6: held and not released to the family, that that scene
39:12
Speaker 6: should still be held, And Sheriff Chris Nato has said
39:16
Speaker 6: as much today in the press conference that that was
39:19
Speaker 6: a mistake.
39:21
Speaker 3: What he tried to explain it away.
39:24
Speaker 6: With is that the FBI joined the case and they
39:27
Speaker 6: wanted to get a fresh look at the crime scene themselves,
39:30
Speaker 6: which is certainly a natural thing.
39:33
Speaker 3: You know, that was a mistake.
39:34
Speaker 6: It's a Monday morning quarterback, as he said, but they
39:38
Speaker 6: definitely should have held that scene.
39:40
Speaker 1: Did you pick up on what Savannah was saying, Oh, guys,
39:43
Speaker 1: that video was for our friends at twelve News. Did
39:45
Speaker 1: you pick up on what Savannah was saying about AI
39:50
Speaker 1: artificial images, artificial intelligence being used to create a photo
39:56
Speaker 1: or video of Nancy Guthrie? Does that indicate to you
40:01
Speaker 1: that the ransom notes had some sort of an image
40:04
Speaker 1: on them, Brian, that.
40:06
Speaker 6: Was the very first thought that came to my mind
40:09
Speaker 6: when I heard that comment, is that there must have
40:12
Speaker 6: been some kind of image or video included in that
40:17
Speaker 6: ransom note. And what Savannah was expressing is, hey, we
40:22
Speaker 6: need more. We need real proof of life, which in
40:25
Speaker 6: today's day and age with AI and the ability for
40:29
Speaker 6: deep fakes, is going to have to be closely coordinated
40:32
Speaker 6: with the FBI to have some kind of two way
40:35
Speaker 6: live video call, maybe on an encrypted channel that the
40:39
Speaker 6: FBI creates.
40:41
Speaker 1: Speaking of Savannah's plea to the kidnapper.
40:46
Speaker 8: On behalf of our family, we want to thank all
40:50
Speaker 8: of you for the prayers for our beloved Mom Fancy.
40:56
Speaker 8: We feel them, and we continue to believe that she
41:00
Speaker 8: feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal,
41:10
Speaker 8: fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She's funny, spunky,
41:17
Speaker 8: and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd
41:23
Speaker 8: around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun
41:28
Speaker 8: and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full
41:33
Speaker 8: of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll.
41:37
Speaker 9: See the light is missing from our lives.
41:45
Speaker 10: Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is
41:51
Speaker 10: our beacon. She holds fast to joy in all of
41:57
Speaker 10: life's circumstances.
42:00
Speaker 3: She chooses joy.
42:01
Speaker 9: Day after day, despite having already passed through great trials
42:07
Speaker 9: of pain and grief. We are always going to be
42:13
Speaker 9: merely human, just normal human people who need our mom.
42:21
Speaker 10: Mama, Mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home.
42:30
Speaker 3: We missed you.
42:36
Speaker 8: Our mom is our heart and our home. She's eighty
42:41
Speaker 8: four years old. Her health, her heart is fragile. She
42:47
Speaker 8: lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She
42:53
Speaker 8: needs it to survive, she needs it not to suffer.
43:00
Speaker 8: We two have heard the reports about a ransom letter
43:03
Speaker 8: in the media. As a family, we are doing everything
43:09
Speaker 8: that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we
43:18
Speaker 8: live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated.
43:25
Speaker 8: We need to know without a doubt that she is
43:30
Speaker 8: alive and that you have her. We want to hear
43:35
Speaker 8: from you, and we are ready to listen. Please reach
43:41
Speaker 8: out to us, Mommy, if you are hearing this, you
43:50
Speaker 8: are a strong woman. You are God's precious daughter, Nancy.
43:58
Speaker 8: We believe and know that even in this valley, he
44:03
Speaker 8: is with you. Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere.
44:11
Speaker 3: We will not rest, Your.
44:13
Speaker 8: Children will not rest until we are together again. We
44:19
Speaker 8: speak to you every moment, and we pray without ceasing,
44:25
Speaker 8: and we rejoice in advance for the day that we
44:29
Speaker 8: hold you in our arms again.
44:32
Speaker 3: We love you, Mom, Love you, We love you.
44:35
Speaker 1: Mom.
44:35
Speaker 3: Stay strong, We love you.
44:37
Speaker 8: We love you.
44:39
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Nancy
44:41
Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, so please die all five to zero, three, five, one, four,
44:49
Speaker 1: nine hundred. There is now a fifty thousand dollars reward
44:53
Speaker 1: from the FBI that number toll free eight hundred two
44:58
Speaker 1: two five five three two four. If you wish to
45:02
Speaker 1: remain anonymous, please dial five two zero eight eight two
45:10
Speaker 1: seven four six three, repeat anonymous tips five two zero
45:18
Speaker 1: eight eight two seven four six three. Thanks to our guests,
45:25
Speaker 1: but especially you for being with us, and please join
45:30
Speaker 1: us in prayer as we pray for the safe return
45:34
Speaker 1: of missus Guthrie eighty four years old, Nancy Grace signing off,
45:42
Speaker 1: I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,