Latest / Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry / Episode 58: The Courage to Stay Open: discovering the radiance of being at the core of all experiences

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Episode 58: The Courage to Stay Open: discovering the radiance of being at the core of all experiences · Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry

2:11
Okay, welcome back to Conversations with Amoda Maa.
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As those of you who are on the watching on video can see,
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we're trying something a little bit different today.
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For those of you on audio,
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I invite you to come and take a look
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at the video recording of this particular conversation
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because we're attempting trying to set up
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a little camera arrangement so that we can speak
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to each other live.
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And I can ask Amoda questions
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and we can dialogue in the way that we have over the last,
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I think it's 45 or so episodes,
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developing episodes of the conversations with the Amoda Maa.
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So this is really quite an adventure,
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but we thought it would be fun,
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which I'm not so sure that it is,
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but it's certainly an adventure.
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It's taken me quite a few hours to set it up
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and there's nobody else to set it up for us at this stage.
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So enough of that, greeting is Amoda
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Greetings, Kavi
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Okay.
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Let's explore one of the central themes, let's say, of your
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teaching of the work that we do, the work that primarily comes
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from you through you. And that is, let's call it the courage to stay open.
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So we're going to explore its relevance, this openness, its relevance to ordinary life and to those
3:57
on the path seeking freedom who maybe have been on the path for a long time. So it speaks to the
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mature seeker, but it also speaks just to how life is lived in this world, in this society,
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in this culture, and why openness is actually a fundamental theme to talk about, to invite people
4:24
to. So if we're good about that, let me jump in and open this up quickly. Why? Why is openness
4:37
so central to this teaching? That's actually a multi-layered question, or I should say a multi-layered
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answer. We could start with the essential, which is the discovery of our essential nature,
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which is speaking obviously to those on the spiritual path or the path of seeking freedom.
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When freedom has been glimpsed or tasted by freedom, I mean freedom from the ego identity.
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We can call that awakening, we can call it self-realization and so on.
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When that's been glimpsed, either touched on or fully recognized and embodied,
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there is a deep and undeniable recognition that openness is our essential nature.
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What is that openness?
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Essentially it's the foundation or the ground of being.
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We could also say the ground of awareness, that which is prior to all experience and
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that which is prior to identity.
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So at the deepest level and at the purest level, that's what I would say is meant by openness.
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And that's why it's fundamental to the teaching, because the teaching is about freedom from
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ego identity and realizing the true nature of self.
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We could then, and we probably are going to, so I don't want to rush ahead, but explore
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various layers of that openness from the point of view of it having not been recognised.
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And yet the everyday life offers us the potential to meet life from a certain degree or level of
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openness or not and how that let's call it openness or closeness creates either
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peace or suffering. So we could perhaps speak about it from that point of view
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the sort of default position of how life is met for, I say, the default position in the sense that for
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the majority of people, for most of the time, for much of the time.
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Yeah, elaborate that. Go into that a bit.
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from the point of view or the perspective of the ego identity,
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life is something to be controlled or something to be managed or something to be rejected.
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And when I say life, I mean those experiences of life which might cause us discomfort or might
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cause pain or some emotional reaction and then those experiences of life that cause happiness or
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pleasure. Either way, we're trained unconsciously when we haven't examined the true nature of self
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to believe that we are a separate entity, a self, that needs to manage life, manage that
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moment by rejecting it so that it doesn't hurt us, so we can get rid of it, or by grasping
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it because it's pleasurable and we want to keep repeating that for ourselves and hold
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on to it. So this creates a fundamental error, which is one of believing that me and life
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are separate, and also believing that I can control life or manage life from that perspective.
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And that creates a contraction of the self, a contracted self, which has ramifications
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on a psychological level, on a nervous system level, on a physical level.
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And most people, many people, are operating from that.
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So, I mean, as soon as you start talking about this, it sort of opens into the whole panoply,
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the whole vista of what we're conditioned, of how we're conditioned.
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So because in many ways we're the product of cultural conditioning, but not in a broad
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sense, but in a very specific sense, because when I've looked into it now, I've seen that
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the perpetuation of the wounded culture teaches us in effect closure. It teaches us armoring,
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which is an aspect of the separate self that you're talking of. So not only does it teach us,
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the separate self is the real identity. Of course it does. That's what we've all been
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led to believe. But also it does create that schism within us because
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we're taught, aren't we? We're taught that the way you're going to get through this life is through
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closure is through defence, is through keeping the world out and through also burying anything
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vulnerable within oneself. Exactly, exactly. So the armoured self, the defended self, the
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protected self, is accepted as the norm and yet is the source of suffering.
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Well, it is the source of suffering.
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And that's why people try and escape so much.
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So they're trying to escape the suffering which is created by the conditioned culture,
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which is perpetuated by the wounded ancestry and the insidious and endless belief in the separate self.
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therefore, the only solution is to realise the true nature of self.
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So you've gone straight to that now, Harvey.
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I see no other way.
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I see no other way.
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Of course, one can, if one is willing, if one's true desire, even if one is not on a
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spiritual path, is to find a new way of being with life, of meeting life, because there's
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at least some opening, some consciousness that is aware that, well, this isn't working.
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And I'm experiencing more pain or more resistance or more contraction, perhaps softening or opening
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or relaxing or really meeting another way of life, which is not about control and defence
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and attack and so on, would be wise.
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And perhaps there's a glimpse of that in moments of relaxation or whatever.
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So there it starts, but ultimately it has to go all the way.
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Ultimately, it is about realizing the true nature of self.
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So when you say ultimately, is that because on the path of the self, let's say, the self
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that goes to therapy, the self that does the healing practices in order to find a deeper peace
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or to go beyond one's stories, the suffering of one's stories, which does let you say create a certain
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openness does happen with that. But you're saying that that still leads to, it doesn't
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lead to ultimate freedom. It leads to relative freedom.
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Yes, that's right. Yeah. Because at some point, there's another layer and another layer,
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another layer, whether it's not so much about what happens in life, my everyday life, but
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you know, perhaps there has been a sort of letting go of controlling life or rejecting
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life or resisting this moment.
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But at some point there are deeper layers, which is to do with, perhaps to do with the
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aging of the body, of the meeting of death, of the meeting of loss, of, well, ultimately,
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there's an existential contraction.
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And somebody who is deepening is going to almost come across that or collide with that
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at some point, and if one's genuine desire is for true liberation from the separate
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self, then it has to go all the way to the realisation of that which is already open.
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Not how can I, as an individual, open to this.
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That's the starting place, if you like.
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what is the recognition of what is already open? So that kind of shifts the question or shifts the
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inquiry, shifts the trajectory, which then points us back to the source of all things that has nothing
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to do with the individual or the personhood that can practice openness.
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Yeah.
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Does that, because what you're talking about is the non-dual self-inquiry in many ways
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to see what is prior to the self, what is, you know, below or beyond, which is another
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very good words, but I like what's prior to the self. So the self is here, but there's
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consciousness, awareness, what that openness, presumably.
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Is this progressive? Because we just talked about people who aren't, you know, don't want
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go yet or aren't ready or haven't seen or whatever the reason are not going all the way,
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which takes quite a lot of something. You just said they're caught on still in the
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self that's trying to resolve the issues of the self because that's what we've got.
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Is there a way of bypassing? I don't mean bypassing in a bad way. I mean cutting straight to the
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direct path? Yes. The direct path, if you like, cuts straight to the point. But only if the
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genuine desire for that inquiry is awake in one is, you know, a flame in one. If it's
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not then it can't be forced and has no value. But you know, it's almost like we're having
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two conversations here, which is why is openness an essential theme of this teaching? This teaching
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is not therapy. This teaching is not addressing the personhood, although of course it includes
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that because we're speaking with people. So it's not a spiritual bypassing of that. So
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it includes all of it. And the wisdom includes all levels, if you like, all layers. But fundamentally,
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the teaching is about self-realization. So that's one conversation. And then the other
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conversation is to be of some support to those who have a desire to open. It does call them,
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but are not ready for the deeper inquiry or are not interested or not available for that.
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These are two slightly different conversations that I feel we're trying to embrace both ends of
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the spectrum. Is that good? How can we amalgamate them kind of in there? Because it is useful to talk
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about openness not as a quality but as a state but as an abiding part of the teaching that you're
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talking about. But when we talk about openness to the human being, when we're trained, designed,
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cultured, in many ways for defendedness and closure, then you start talking about openness.
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And immediately we start talking about all the aspects of the self, which are,
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what about my boundaries? What about vulnerability? I'm used to exercising control.
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When we talk like this, I feel like I'm falling apart. My life is ruled by fear because just below
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the surface of most people is trouble. Just below the surface of most people are all of these things.
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So, you know, that's the problem with the conversation in a way.
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It is. And I don't really know the answer to that. And our conversations, at least in this format,
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do seem to embrace or attempt to embrace simply because their conversations are not actual teachings.
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The whole spectrum, I find that both interesting, valuable and also somewhat of a challenge.
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Because it's almost like carrying two baskets at the same time.
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We have to say, and I will say that this teaching is not about self-help.
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Yeah, yeah, you said that. If that was the case, then we'd be offering and speaking more to the self
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and how it can learn methods of openness and so on. Many of the self-help
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practices, which are very valuable. I'm much more interested in that. Yeah. So somehow we dance
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between those two. Well, here's the thing. And I appreciate what you're saying, because I agree,
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and it's like a razor's edge in many ways and it is a bit of a surfing, you know, particularly for
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you who holds a very, very, very, you know, in a way specific frequency about that, a devotion to
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the bat only, that self-realization only. But here's the thing that I've noticed is that those many
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of those people who start out wondering what's wrong with the self, why can't I find peace,
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in all of these things that I've just talked about with the difficulty, actually behind what they
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think they're searching for is actually that, that which doesn't close because most people are
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searching for the innocence of their true nature. And this is what you're talking about is the
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innocence of true nature, not innocent in some moral way, but the pristine unbroken nature
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of our essential nature. And so this is a good conversation simply, even in its difficulty,
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because it does offer a little bridge. It's not a self-help, your way to self-realization.
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It's like at a certain point on the journey, you're going to have to drop the fixation with self.
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You're going to have to drop the journey of self. And that's when it really begins.
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That's when it starts getting really, really rocky in many ways, but actually really start to get closer to the flame.
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Well, then one can keep on referring back, if you like, to that which is unbroken in all circumstances.
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So when someone is having a problem or is, you know,
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contracting against an experience or situation
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or a feeling and emotion,
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is to gently guide that individual
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to the realization of what remains
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when this experience passes,
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because all experience has passed.
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emotions pass, whether it's turbulent or intense or frightening or so and so, is it not true
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that there's a moment where it's not that, it's not a static feeling state, it's not
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a static emotion and as one supports an individual in seeing that and recognising that, then
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to reflect back on what remains, what remains when everything passes, when everything changes.
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And gradually that can bring that innate, you know, that which is prior to all experience
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into the foreground. Is it not true that I, I, I am, and I am aware is always here, whether
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my experience is turbulent or whether my experience is pleasurable. And that kind of
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conversation or dialogue or inquiry can assist anybody at any level of their path or any stage
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of their path. So you're always in effect when people are habituated to their stories and on the
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spiritual path, people are habituated to their stories in many ways. And so when the story,
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the sorrow for one or the angry one or whatever it is, the broken one comes with that, you're
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always returning to what is seeing this, what is prior to this. Actually, there's an element of
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Buddhist teaching in that to see the waves of phenomena as they rise and fall and to
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see that everything that rises falls and everything is yes.
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That's it. The recognition of the impermanence of all states, all things, but not just objects
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or circumstances, but all states, all states of mind or states of emotion or all states,
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physical, mental, emotional, even spiritual states are impermanent. They come and go,
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everything rises and falls, everything appears like a cloud. And to recognize sky nature,
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this doesn't have to be a spiritual belief or a dogma or any kind of traditional esoteric
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teaching. It's actually directly available to every human being that has the honesty or willingness
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to just see it in this moment and those that are available are, you know, it's like a little
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shift in perspective, in realization. Of course, it may not last, it may not be abiding, but those who
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have, you know, again, a genuine desire to live from fundamental peace, it'll come more
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and more into the foreground.
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So what is it like?
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What does it look like to, you know,
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walk in the world, which is, to be honest,
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quite a closed world.
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You can feel it, see it, know it, energetically,
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because you're talking about the lived experience
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awareness in the world and to what it like to walk in that because as soon as people
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rightly imagine that, then there's a certain imagination that comes with it. What's it like?
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Thank you.
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It's as if there's just no hard edges.
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There's no opposition to what is being experienced.
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If it's being experienced, it's being experienced.
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It's not...
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It's like just simply not having a suit of armour.
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What a relief.
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The personality self, the me self,
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that is made up of that armouring,
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has simply come undone.
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And that doesn't make you weaker or...
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vulnerable in the sense of being a victim or passive on the contrary. It's like the light,
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the light of true self shines and you simply operate as a human being in the everyday,
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there's no difference, but without the armoring. What a beautiful unburdening thing.
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It is a beautiful, unburdening.
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It is.
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There's no doubt about it.
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What returns, what was, you know, what's gone?
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Well, I know I can hear what you're saying, what's gone.
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Is there a sensitivity that isn't negative?
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A sensitivity to what?
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Well to the environment because most people, you know, the habitual state is, it operates
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within this coat of armour that you're talking about.
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You know, the cloak of armour, some of that is around the heart, some of it is just around
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the energy system because we're funneled up into the self. And so as openness becomes
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a more abiding state, so the feeling body, if you like, kind of wakes up, so the sensitivity
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of the organism kind of almost returns, but we hasn't got a story. Is this what I'm...
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Yes, I think a better word than sensitivity is just simply attunement.
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Right, well, you can, yeah, from sensitivity to attunement, then that's...
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Sensitivity implies that something is an ouch.
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Right.
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And therefore I do need to protect myself.
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But an attunement is simply like a flower that has no resistance.
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It has no resistance to rain or sunshine or being trodden on or being picked, you know, cut.
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A flower is just a flower and it's always a flower.
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So, it's just attuned to what is, to what is.
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With no overlay.
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With no overlay of the self that needs to withdraw or fight back.
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Or, yeah, it's very natural.
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Okay.
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a flower is not the best example. I'm using a very basic example. We could more a very small child.
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I was going to say a very small dog. Or a very small dog.
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Who's down here, everybody?
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The innocence that you speak of is that of a very small young child or a very
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young animal.
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It's not walking around with the suit of armor.
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It's very open to what is, and therefore experiences, all energies is attuned to all energies
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and responds accordingly.
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If there are tears, if there is playfulness, there's playfulness.
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It's just very natural.
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So we become natural rather than sensitive.
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It's in another way of saying it is that we don't meet life with a harshness, with a tightness,
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with a, yeah, it's a very soft touch upon life. And if there's a soft touch upon life,
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and what is, and what is, and what is, and your immediate experience, then life touches you very
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softly. That doesn't mean it always goes according to what you want.
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Yeah, and it's a different framing of perception. I think because what you're saying, and this
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is where it gets kind of interesting, is because the habitual self, the self that we're trying
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to condition to be, actually unconsciously almost goes into almost every experience that
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it's having in a defended way. So it sets up its experience because it's going in alert,
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the danger, alert to trouble. All of these kind of, the armor is already in place always,
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isn't it really? It takes quite a lot for the armor, for a moment of non-armoring to be seen.
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That's what people say, have an epiphany or see love or experience in a wild sunset or something.
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and have an experience of no armour.
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And it's like, wow, what's that?
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He's in an enlightenment moment.
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Well, is it, or is it just the moment of seeing from the eyes of innocence, in effect, non-armoury?
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Yes, the experience of beauty, whether it's beauty through art or beauty through nature,
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or just stillness and the either epiphany or grace or love or deep presence that can take place.
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That's not inherent in the experience itself. It's not inherent in nature. It's not inherent in art.
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It's not inherent in anything that you're doing. It simply is the falling away of the
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self in that moment. Oh yeah, I just realised that the self actually searches for beauty.
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It looks for beauty or it creates beauty in the world, but to fall deeper into the non-self
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or into awareness, actually beauty is the inherent nature of it. And so beauty is it.
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It's not a thing, it's an it. No, it's not caused by anything.
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And at that point, we can call it the radiance of being.
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That's what you're really interested in.
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That's what is realized.
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It's not, well, that's a beautiful piece of art or that's a beautiful sunset.
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If you start commenting on it from that perspective, it will just become a thing that you're experiencing.
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But if there's no commentary, then what you're actually experiencing, whether it's love
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for light or presence or beauty or whatever one wants to call it, is the radiance of your own being.
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And in fact, we can go beyond that. It's not just the radiance of your own being.
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It's the radiance of being that is inherent in all things. That is the ground, the least
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ground of reality, which is actually what we're pointing to.
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So this is an interesting conversation to everybody because we started out with one thing.
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And now I'm going to segue into, I'm sorry, is slightly premature in so many ways, a couple
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of months or something premature. But this is the nature of what you've just been writing about
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and is very possibly going to be the title of the new book that you've got.
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I didn't think we were going to talk about this, but since we've arrived at it,
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can you just open this up a bit and talk about it?
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Talk about it?
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I don't know what to say.
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Well, it is the...
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Because it animates you when you spoke just that, something, you know,
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I mean, you've got a light that comes from you anyway,
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but that was an increased light intensity in that moment.
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It's the subject of the book because it is the whole of the teaching.
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It hasn't necessarily been expressed so clearly in that way up until quite recently,
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but that's what's revealed itself more and more, not just as an inner knowing because that's always
37:08
been so, but through the expression of it and therefore the book is a condensed version of that.
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because as we started this conversation, everything that's offered here is pointing back to that.
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Again, not as a sort of spiritual ideology or specific practice or even a belief, but because
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Because that is the nature of freedom and my only role, if you like, in this life is
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to point to that.
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I think and feel and the whole human experience is really available to us in order to point
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us to that.
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Oh, okay.
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This is good.
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This is bringing this together.
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So our very human experience.
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This is big. It's not just here to all of the millions of stories that we've got around
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it from suffering to self-actualising or any of these things. You're inviting. I know
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that we do this a lot in the work, is that life itself is reflecting us, reflecting back
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to us or reflecting to us the radiance of being-ness of being. Yes, both every experience
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is a potential doorway to that radiance of being and the whole purpose of life as a
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a human incarnation at the deepest level is to realize that. It's not to create more comfort
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or more pleasure or more acquisition of any kind. That's all part of the human experience,
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and that's the Leela of life, and we can certainly enjoy that,
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and not withdraw from that. But the ultimate or the fundamental or the existential purpose
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of life as a human incarnation is to realize that which we already are, which is the radiance
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of being. Why? Maybe I should ask that. Yes, motor why. Well, I don't know ultimately why,
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because this is one of the great mysteries. Why has existence come into existence?
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so that we realise that which is prior to existence, but on a more practical level or grounded level,
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the realisation of the radiance of being allows us to
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operate or function or to be and act and live in the world from that radiance of being.
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And that has very real ramifications, not only on the,
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let's say, vibrational field of our own lives, but the whole environment, surely, because if that
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recognition of the radiance of being openness, call it what you will,
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is the end of reactivity, the end of separation, the end of violence and division and so on,
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well surely that has an impact on the world that we never. So it's not just for our own
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It is the end of the war that we wage both with our experience, with other people and
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with the world in general, rooted in separation and the idea that we're a separate self who
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has to do all of these things, fight their way through life.
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what I see and what you've actually taught me over the years is that this radiance of
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being restores us, if you like, to a wholeness, an integration, a harmony, a harmony that
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is almost unknowable to the divided mind. It defies that, because that can't, that divided
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mind actually has to die in many ways in order for this to be known. But this is an integrated,
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sort of harmonic way to live. It does have an effect. Absolutely. If we are
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harmonious within, then there'll be harmony without, you know,
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but isn't this the Christ teachings? Yes.
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essentially, which have been interpreted as the 10 commandments, but the 10 commandments
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are top down and from an external authority and our behavioral, and that doesn't work,
43:46
because the self has to contort itself. One has to realize the true nature of self, just
43:51
Jesus did, which is the heart of that is a non-dual realization.
43:58
And then peace can take place and then love can take place and then non-separation can
44:04
take place and then right action can take place and then non-harm can take place from
44:09
the inside out.
44:10
So surely this is the same.
44:14
Yes.
44:16
Yes, it is the path of love, ultimately it is the path of love and peace, but it has
44:25
to be realised from within.
44:27
I have to do this or do that or not do this and not do that, because none of that works
44:34
for the self, it will eventually rebel.
44:40
I want to because we're, you know,
44:43
this is an experiment that we've done
44:45
and so far I'm kind of pleased with it.
44:47
But I want to bring it back just as we move into closure.
44:54
You've got it here, we've got it written here.
44:58
For someone listening who feels deeply defended
45:02
or scared to open,
45:05
what can they, where can they begin?
45:09
What can they do?
45:10
Because we do want to reach out to people.
45:12
Everybody is on a spiritual path.
45:15
I long ago, you know, as some people,
45:17
you get further along the spiritual path
45:19
and realize you've been messing about for years.
45:22
And then you deep dive into the nature of your existence.
45:25
And a lot of people on the journey are courting that,
45:29
but a little bit far away from that
45:31
because they're still dealing with some of the other issues
45:34
that are, you know, predominate.
45:37
But everybody's on the spiritual path. So for somebody who is on that spiritual path,
45:42
scared to open, caught in the matrix, nyadiyada, whatever it is, where can they begin?
45:50
Can you cultivate it?
45:54
To a certain degree you can cultivate it, certainly at that stage or of things.
46:06
which is to notice within oneself how that closure of the Self, whether it's resisting
46:30
one's experience or getting caught in fear and therefore retracting to notice how that
46:39
creates psychological pain, psychological suffering, you are the one suffering. And to
46:47
then experiment, I always like the word experiment because it doesn't make it a spiritual command.
46:57
to experiment with oneself, what if, what if in this moment? I just softened. Everyone
47:10
knows what relaxation feels like, you know, it's not just physical relaxation, although
47:16
it can start with that. What if I just exhaled in this moment? To notice how I'm actually
47:24
tightening, not just in my mind, but in my body, because the two are the same, the body
47:30
is a reflection of mind. To notice how the story that is playing out in my mind, this
47:36
shouldn't be happening, this shouldn't be happening, well, there's a good place to
47:39
start as soon as this shouldn't be happening to me, or this I shouldn't be feeling this
47:45
is a major one. If you notice that that's what you're saying to yourself, that's the
47:49
narrative going on. Well first of all, notice it, because noticing, observing, being honest
47:56
with myself, one cell is the first entry point. Oh, okay. So this is repeating itself. Well,
48:07
hang on a minute, just stop. You're feeling this. So how can you say to yourself, I shouldn't
48:15
be feeling this. This is insanity. You are feeling this. You're just trying not to feel it.
48:21
What if you just allowed yourself to feel it? So we just talk about feeling right now,
48:26
not circumstances. What usually feeling is triggered by circumstances. But what if I just
48:34
allowed myself for a moment or a few moments or a few seconds to exhale and allow whatever is
48:42
already here as a feeling to be felt without any resistance. And just find out
48:50
what happens to you, what actually happens, nothing. It may be uncomfortable,
48:58
but it's only the thought that I shouldn't be feeling this or it's too
49:02
dangerous or it's overbearing or it's yeah whatever it might be, unbearable,
49:09
that creates resistance. What if I just took an exhale and let this feeling wash
49:16
through me? Experiment. That's the entry point.
49:21
Right. And of course, the self may fight that and say no and so on and so on. Well,
49:29
you know, at that point, we each take responsibility for it.
49:32
No, that's what that's where I was going to come to is like, you know, the
49:37
invitation always to people that we work with and I work with one to one is to
49:42
actually really decide for yourself because nobody's ever going to do it for
49:46
us. You know we have to take an ever deeper responsibility for what it is
49:51
that we really want and who it is that we really are and whether we're going to
49:56
consistently always move away from discomfort simply because we don't like
50:02
it and it's too much and at some point there has to be an intervention in that
50:06
in some way. And a lot of people have tried the therapy and stuff and that's worked for
50:11
a while. But this is a different intervention. This is the intervention of softening. This
50:16
is the intervention to say yes instead of no.
50:20
Yeah, just practice saying yes.
50:22
Isn't it?
50:23
I mean, that's a great practice and that's a great entry point. And I seem to remember
50:28
that was part of my journey was just saying yes to everything. You know, yes, I do feel
50:33
this.
50:34
Yes, but don't remain in the, well, I'm scared and that's who I am.
50:40
Yes.
50:41
Or I'm anxious and that's who I don't remain in that.
50:44
Just say yes to the feeling, to the texture of the feeling and then inevitably there'll
50:49
be another texture and another texture.
50:52
It's constantly changing.
50:54
It doesn't remain the same.
50:55
No.
50:56
It's only the thought that wraps around it that stays the same.
51:00
you stay there if you get stuck in that, but you can actually just feel it and let it pass through
51:06
or let it, you know, just find out. Yeah, that's right. Curiosity.
51:14
Have curiosity because feelings don't kill you. Your thoughts might eventually kill you because
51:20
they create so much tension, but feelings don't kill you. No, they don't kill you. They just don't
51:28
I'll kill you.
51:29
They, they, we have more capacity with our feeling body, with that which arises.
51:37
I mean, you know me, you know, I used to move away from anything I think that I felt.
51:43
And now it just doesn't, it doesn't matter.
51:45
It's all part of the glorious whole.
51:47
And that's an invitation to presence.
51:50
And to me, the invitation to presence is the invitation to openness.
51:54
in presence, you're just here. Things arise, whatever arises, love it. When it passes, love
52:03
it, to be rooted in that. All of that, saying yes to what is, loving what arises, they're
52:11
all valuable pointers, reminders, mantras, practices. Well, they are, yeah, because I
52:19
And I think just taking it back to the deeper radiance that you were talking of, because
52:25
that was almost on the level of self.
52:28
But actually, if you sit in it, if you relax in it, and you do that as a practice, a practice
52:39
less practice, buy and buy, something's going to happen.
52:43
And a doorway is going to open in your life that's going to take you into a more vertical
52:48
place. And the vertical place that it's going to take you in may have fear, you made this,
52:54
may that, who knows what it's going to be. You're going to be called into the unknown.
52:59
And the radiance of being is found in the unknown, not on the...
53:04
Yes. And as you speak, I'm reminded of an important aspect of this, which is if you see
53:15
See yourself as a victim of your experience because I feel something uncomfortable or painful
53:24
or difficult or things aren't going my way and I can't control life or whatever it might
53:30
be.
53:31
If you are identified with being a victim and again, one needs to be very honest with
53:38
with oneself because normally a victim is somebody who's been abused or been in a dramatic
53:49
or traumatic situation. But no, I'm speaking about the victim of your feelings, the victim
53:58
of life. I don't like what's happening. I don't want what's happening and therefore
54:02
I'm going to contract. That's a victim. You can choose through practice, through the gradual
54:10
path, through the piercing insight to actually stop being a victim, because there is no victim
54:17
here. And life will meet you in that non-victiveness. It doesn't mean that everything necessarily
54:30
becomes perfect and easy overnight. But over time, even life's challenges become a beautiful
54:43
invitation that inform us of a certain inner growth and new directions. So in that sense,
54:51
everything does become perfect.
54:53
Yeah. I'm reminded as we kind of draw to a close that, you know, as that, you know,
55:00
we very easily identify ourselves as something, as this, all that, all this, all that, and give
55:09
it a quality, you know, and the quality of the victim is quite insidious and quite hidden for
55:15
so many people, because what you're talking about is deeper than just the superficial victim.
55:21
You know, but my invitation is not to paint yourself into any corner.
55:25
No corner, no definition. Give all that up because that's not who we are anyway.
55:31
It's not you're not this type of person. You're not that type of person.
55:36
Give up all notion of what type of person you are and start living more directly.
55:41
You know, use the experiences that are being had as invitations to go into
55:47
self and find out what is really there, what is really going on under the hood with this,
55:53
because that will take you deeper into the radiance of being. I think we're finished.
56:02
Okay, thank you, Amoda. An interesting journey. Thank you so much for being on this journey with us.
56:15
I'm going to obviously have to look at what it's like now and patch it together somehow.
56:20
And thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for watching. Do stay in touch,
56:25
do subscribe to anything that we're doing. Join a Amoda on substack, join me on substack, check
56:32
out the YouTube lookout in a couple of months for a Amoda's book, The Radiance of Being,
56:37
because I think it's going to be beautiful. I don't want to say any more at the moment.
56:44
I think I'll just bid you for a while. And once again, Amoda, thank you so much.
56:50
Namaste. Namaste. Thank you, POD. Our little boy is here and he's been listening,
56:56
paying attention because he's a gorgeous little boy. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.