Latest / That Mom / Stop Managing Everything: How to Raise Kids Who Take Responsibility
Transcript
- Maria Woods: you Welcome to That Mom, the podcast where we explore finding more joy and more meaning in the beautiful chaos of motherhood. I'm your host Maria, and I'm so glad you're here. Today I'm welcoming my guest, Nicole Gambino, who has 17 years of parenting expertise. Nicole has created a system of rituals and guardrails that takes the onus of motoring everything in the family off of the mom and puts it onto the child, thereby creating confident, independent, and capable children. Join me in welcoming Nicole to That Mom. Well, I'm so excited to have you. Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to jump in. Okay. Learn from you. And I just think, you know, although you touch on students and children, I think so much of what you do is really parents and coaching parents how to be the parent that they want to be and helping them to feel more comfortable in terms of what should they do? What should they do next? And knowing that it's okay to not have all the answers as a parent. because we don't have a playbook. And a lot of times I don't want to speak for anybody, but I remember being a new mom. And for whatever reason, I felt almost like I was supposed to have all the answers. And I didn't seek out when I really wanted to have conversations. Not that I needed validation, but just to have a sense of... Because it's a different ⁓ transition. It's your biggest life change. Yeah. You become a mother. And I think people who are high achieving or they're living the life the way they want to, becoming a mother upends that. Right? And the internet, think, and social media does make you think that you should have all the answers. And you really don't when you start something like motherhood for the first time. it's that so backwards because the answers typically, and this is part of my program and the teaching, it's internal. It's not external. That creates more anxiety. I find. Even you saying it's internal, I just wanted to like, It's all about you. Yeah. It's all about us. And it feels good to know that the answers are inside of you. They are. They are. it, yes. So tell me, what do you help parents with? A little bit about your program. Tell me that. So basically the focus of my program, the core, is to help parents to slowly remove themselves from motoring their household or their children. And infusing very simple systems in their daily life. So in real time. Okay. I think from what I hear and what I see, um, a lot of parents just feel a sense of overwhelm, which is very normative. Um, they feel overwhelmed because they're always feeling like they have to take on more, more managing, more directing, more reminding. And, um, is that what you mean when you say motoring? Yes, sorry, motoring, reminding, directing. I like to call it cruise directing. I actually had a client back in the day say, I feel like a walking cruise director constantly. And she kind of laughed, it's that heaviness, that feeling, that sense of heaviness is what the system needs to carry. The system that you put in place. We can call it a system, a routine. a ritual, a process, that's where the weight should be carried. So this implementing your program will help parents and moms take some of that heaviness and overwhelm away and place it on the system instead. 100%. That sounds amazing because I think there's probably very few parents out there that can't say that they, you know, I think almost everyone identifies with overwhelm at some point. because you feel, I feel the responsibility of keeping my family going, keeping the household moving, keeping my children on task. It's a lot that we put on ourselves. It's huge. ⁓ But it doesn't have to feel that heavy. It doesn't have to feel that way. And it's not that we're doing anything wrong. We're just doing too much. So where did this come from, your program and... you identifying the need for these systems to kind of take this weight and pressure off. How did you come upon this? So I think the short of it, because getting into the weeds won't be, you know, that would take us too long. But I struggled as a student. I definitely felt organized in my personal life, not in my academic. And I struggled quite a bit. And once I got into high school, I had a moment where, ⁓ I was really tired of not feeling good enough and I was worried and I was scared. And this is going to sound really simple and basic, but again, that's the foundation of my program. It was almost like inspired action. had an upcoming test. I didn't know what I was going to do, but. intuitively, I just, sat on the floor of my family room and because that's the largest surface area to be able to spread out school materials in my mind. And I spread everything out. I started putting them into categories and I started creating a sequence of action and memorization. And so from there, and that was at 16, it just, it built. That was the foundation and I just started sort of building my own sense of internal organization for my academics there. And I started to observe other students, like my peers. And I was a nanny in my young years. I just started to observe different households. And then I went on overseas to teach. And so it was just a lot of observation. in terms of how we move throughout our day. Yeah. And you found some things working and some things not working? Correct. Yeah, correct. And what I found would seem to not just work, but let's use the word sustain over time, because this isn't about a quick fix. It's not an oil change. And I tell every, every parent that. Okay. It's about assimilating very simple daily systems, but it has to be repetitive. Okay. So repetition creates reliability. So what I found worked and was able to sustain and take root was physical movement, physical movement every day through the same organizational sequence. Okay. Can you give me an example? Absolutely. me that. an example of that. ⁓ Let me give you two different examples. Let me start with this one. So first of all, when a parent, and this is a great motoring example. So if your child, let's just say that your child is constantly leaving their clothes on the floor or their towels on the floor after a shower or a bath. I can relate, okay? I too. Most of us can relate, right? And as a parent, I think instinctively you are going to want to say, Did you pick up your towel? Did you pick up your clothes? How come you didn't put your clothes in the hamper? Why are your clothes still on the floor? Here I am nodding away here. Yes, yes, yes. So that behavior is never going to change because your child subconsciously knows that you are gonna continue to remind them. So why would they even think to pick up that towel or pick up their shoes? Because you now have taken on the onus of their responsibility. You're taking on almost like the mental load of remembering things for them. Exactly. That's what you're doing. So typically what a parent might say is, what am I supposed to do? If I don't, right? If I don't remind them, they're going to keep doing it. But so subconsciously, They are now completely dependent on your motoring, your reminding. So unintentionally, we're building these skills or lack thereof that apply to homework, apply to remembering to pick up your own clothes and get them in the hamper. And I'm sure there's other examples. I'm going to go into those. this is the best way to explain this. is in a sort of like a simple illustration for a young child. Okay. So a parent would then say, well, what am I supposed to do differently? Obviously. So it's the systems based on prompting and cueing for self-retrieval and then for physical movement. Okay. So an example would be to just say, you have a talk the night before and just say, so what do you think you need to do right after you're done drying off? Or you you're getting ready to put your pajamas on and your child would say, well, I'm going to throw my towel in hamper or I'm going to put my clothes in the laundry bin. Awesome. So we're going to do that tomorrow. All right. Keep it upbeat. Keep it really positive. We're going to do this. Right. And they're going to say, right. And so you, you back off. You just observe when they don't do it. You engage by saying, are you forgetting something? That would be a prompt. You prompt a cue and then they'll say, ⁓ yeah, I forgot to put my towel in the laundry bin. I forgot to put my clothes. So they vocalize the task and then they physically repeat it. And that's the movement. That's the movement. Ad nauseum until it creates an imprint. Okay. So an organizational imprint. So I think this is where There's a big difference, I think you're saying, between reminding and prompting. It's prompting and cueing is what I call it. like, what are you supposed to be somewhere? What's the plan? ⁓ you might've missed a step or hang on. Like, we're letting them come up with the solution. The thing that's missing. it's the self-retrieval. Okay. You let them self-retrieve so they're reflecting, they're self-retrieving, they're thinking. And then typically without thinking, they just vocalize it. And then it's that linked with the physical movement of doing it. And that creates the self organization, the sense of the habit. That's what creates the sustainability. OK, do you see how that would work over a list? Definitely. Yeah. And I think. Here you're letting the child come to retrieve it, to come up with kind of the idea on their own, even though you're prompting. So I can see where the child might take more ownership or more pride over that action. They do. And that's what builds their self-confidence. And that's so interesting, right? Because I think building self-confidence in children, there's a lot of conversations about it. I know the book, The Anxious Generation, kind of mentions that kids don't have projects or work or they don't walk to the store to pick something up, they don't have independence. So maybe, do you see this as small ways of children creating their own independence? 100%. 100%. So my youngest client was five years old. And can I share the story with you? do. So there were three other children in the family and everyone in the home. needed to get out of the house very early in the morning for a specific reason. They had hospital drive. So there was just a lot of moving pieces. And the evening time was not a time for bathing. It had to happen in the morning, I'm sorry, for the specific client because the evening wasn't a possibility. So. I would come over in the morning and we set up this routine where their child needed to wake up at a certain time out of bed to an alarm and get into the shower by a certain time. And typically it takes, as I told the family, it takes seven weeks to generate muscle memory. Okay. Because that's what we're, that's what we're working with again. That's sustainability. Okay. automaticity because again, that's what is going to stand the test of time so to speak is now it's internal. anyway, seven weeks went by and every single morning this child would wake up screaming when they had to get out of bed. Because it physically, it almost, it physically almost hurts. Okay, you know how when we have to get out of bed in the middle of the winter, it's like, it's almost, it feels painful. People have to walk and get into that shower. So every morning he woke up screaming and saying, all I want to do is relax. I just want to relax. And so I was in the kitchen with the parents and the grandparents and they're all looking at me like this woman is crazy. And I, you know, got, even got some feedback. Like, is this necessary? I mean, this is... But that's what they needed to do, right? Is get out of the house and have him. Right. But, and this is a whole nother topic to our conversation, the resistance that this child was feeling. Okay? You know, he wasn't trying to be difficult. These were... feelings and physical almost. And it pulls on the heartstrings. Of course you're going to have compassion for someone struggling that way. And you know, even though I've been doing this for a long time, I'm holding my breath because every child is an individual, right? And sure enough though, it was the seventh week he got out of bed. Not a word. He got into the shower and started humming. Yeah, so that habit had been established. But it again, it is it typically takes at least two months to start to create that again, that internalization of the physical movement, the task, the sequence. I think that's important to know, because I think as parents would get impatient, or it's just even hard to remember when did I start using this tactic. And seven weeks is a while. I have a question. When someone, let's say a child learns and creates a habit of picking up their clothes or towel, getting them into the hamper, it's been eight weeks, this is great. Do they apply that self-retrieval and that independence to other tasks or do they have to learn each task kind of independently? It all depends on the child. Okay. It really does. Typically, it's independently. Yeah. Because think about it, and this is typically how I start off when I'm talking to a family or meeting a family for the first time, we resist doing the things that we don't want to do. Right? Yeah. So even if we're talking about homework, know, typically speaking, that is a very unpreferred activity or task. So you're going to get a lot of avoidance and procrastination. Do you see what I'm saying? ⁓ So again, it's, you know, the brain remembers what it repeats. We're looking for automatic physical movement. Okay. These aren't enjoyable. Yeah. Experiences or tasks or does that make sense? Yeah. How do you automate starting homework? ⁓ I know that's a big part of what you do. I think it's what I do. Yes. How do I automate that? So I would say first step is always we create a workspace. We create a workspace because that grounds the child to the entire experience. Because typically speaking, homework is in the abstract. There aren't a lot of plans for it. You just come home, someone's backpack gets tossed to the side, right? and then they go off. And then that's where you lose them. And then that's where the responsibility shifts to the parent. and that should never happen. That makes so much sense. That like a physical, it's almost like a physical cue. It's a physical cue. Exactly. It's a physical cue. And this was the example I wanted to use earlier. I'm just going to insert because it'll, I think it'll really make some sense is ⁓ we have a closet in my house. Okay, where we keep all of our vacuums. And we have had this closet, you know, 10 years we've been keeping our vacuums in there. So recently, I would say a month and a half ago, my husband moved the vacuums. We switched our utility closet. Yeah. Okay. So sure enough, where do you think my body goes to every single time I go to vacuum? Yeah, to that, old closet. To the old closet. Yeah. Because that's the muscle memory. Yeah. So just think of how that could be applied to doing tasks that aren't necessarily enjoyable, but we know either need to get done or are really, really important for our overall growth and becoming a life skill. So yes. So the workspace is really, it's the foundation of the program and it grounds a student to the experience and it completely reduces any anticipatory anxiety. That's amazing. And so this is helping children. Basically, the parents are creating the structure to help the child be able to accomplish these tasks and kind of take that mental load off the parent for managing. with less resistance. Which is huge. It is huge, but it's so important. And again, if we were sitting with, let's just say, a group of parents right now, I think we would all agree that we know that nobody looks forward to doing tasks, chores, especially homework, right? But think of the weight that's put on homework. Yeah. Think of what happens when it doesn't get done. Right. It's huge. It's huge, exactly. And again, like we talked about before, organization, task initiation, and follow through isn't typically intuitive. So we shouldn't just expect our kids. It sounds like we need to adjust our expectations. How long it takes to learn a task, make it automatic. And also we shouldn't expect that they just know to pick up their clothes or put their dishes in the sink or... some of these things. Correct. But even if, no, they know, they know, but it's again, it's the resistance to want to engage. And that's sort of a whole nother level of the program is how do we make something that isn't enjoyable, more tolerable and easier to cope? Okay. So, one of my clients is an eight year old. girl who is in second grade. And her mother reached out because they were having a lot of difficulty or we could just say they identified a pain point is that's what I like to call it. So it was a morning pain point. So morning chaos in terms of getting out of the house, which I'm sure a lot of people could relate. Definitely. Yeah. Getting to school. And so I think The primary issue was the clothing and the shoes. It was which pair of shoes are we supposed to be wearing for that given day, okay? And so what we did is we established, again, we could call it a ritual, a system or a routine around that preparation happening the night before school, okay? And so we instituted a series of what I call guardrails. So every single night after dinner, regardless of when they eat dinner, because we have a lot of moving pieces. Kids have extra curricular, they have sports. So if they have dinner, and typically this family does have dinner at the same time, but even if they didn't, as soon as they're done with dinner, the student puts her plate in the sink, which was always a given, and immediately goes upstairs. goes upstairs, picks out her outfit for the next day. And we call it, ⁓ selecting her, what I call it, her full person. So as soon as you say full person, she can visualize from head to toe what that needs to look like. And she has a specific place where she places her clothes. She goes downstairs and puts her shoes out. And that's it. Wow. ⁓ So with your program, and you've worked with so many parents, What's the biggest difference that you feel or that parents feel from engaging in the program and just engaging with trying to, I would almost say empower their kids to run their own organization to like an actor. Yeah. Is their confidence. Yeah. It's their confidence and their ability to be self reliant. It's actually, like parents will say, just stepping back and watching their child take responsibility and initiate and feel empowered to take on tasks that were really difficult for them or that they didn't think that they were capable of doing. I think that's so huge because, and I even have goosebumps, my oldest is only six, but as your kids get older, You just want to make sure you're preparing them for the world out there. You're preparing them to be an independent, confident person, child, teenager, adult. And so I think that's just so, it's such a universal desire for parents to build these skills. But how to build them, especially in this complicated era, it can be a bit confusing. So I think this is just putting into place something that's such a... Breath of fresh air and such a relief for parents. It is. what I want to say too is if a parent can endure, being a parent myself, I know it's really hard to see their child in discomfort during those initial stages of employing a new routine, they're gonna be fine. Because naturally they're going to feel that resistance. They're going to, you know, dig their heels in a little bit and you just keep going. It's all about to acknowledging and validating the feeling. But continuing to move forward without taking detours because you see a little resistance or discomfort. Validate the feeling. It's real. They're feeling it, but it's okay. going to keep moving forward. those are the guardrails, the moving forward. Those are one of, that's one of the guardrails. There are many guardrails, but that's part of the parental self-regulation is letting it wash over you, validate the feeling, but we're going to keep doing this. We're not going to back off. not going to abandon it because it's a little uncomfortable because it's new. Yeah. Such an important life lesson, life skill. It's amazing. Great, well thank you so much for spending your time with me. I appreciate it.