Latest / Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth / 102: Bob Kruse, CEO and co-founder of Revelstoke Security, on how a sales leader becomes CEO of a cybersecurity company

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102: Bob Kruse, CEO and co-founder of Revelstoke Security, on how a sales leader becomes CEO of a cybersecurity company · Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth

• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Sales Blue Board podcast.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you are a seller or sales leader at a B2B startup, especially if it's in the cybersecurity space, you're in the right place today.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Andrew Monahan, and welcome to episode 102.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And our guest today is Bob Cruz, who is the CEO and co-founder of Revel Stoke Security.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Bob, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get into it, I do have to ask for the listeners.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: What I want to get from people is your ideas and questions that you want to have answered on future podcasts.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know that everyone is sitting there, whether you're a seller or a leader, and there's things you're wrestling with, there's things that you're thinking about for the year.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to get your suggestions, what they are.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: We can cover them either on one of the full episodes or I can even discuss them with one of the interviewees that we have in the future.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe if Bob comes back on at some point, we'll have a rich list of questions to go through and get different perspectives on.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So send them through to me directly, andrew at unstuffable.do.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget a do at the end and not com.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's andrew at unstuffable.do.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, Bob, let's look quickly at your LinkedIn resume.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So as I go through this, the first thing that jumps out at me is security, right?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: F5, Blue Coat, then Semantic, FireEye, Optif, Domestico, Obsidian, you know, this whole thing going right the way back to the, you know, was it 2002?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is all security, cybersecurity back in the days when we used to call it information security, right?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not cybersecurity.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what is it about cyber that just keeps you coming back and back again and again?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my first uh first taste of cybersecurity was at F5 Networks, which is you know best known.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: However, they started to introduce uh uh security products, and we were like, what is this?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like an IP, you know, firewall, I forgot VP and firewall, um, SSL VP and firewall, uh, application firewall, and some other stuff.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so started to having to sell these things and having these conversations, and I just got hooked immediately.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: What drew me in was the human factor.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So with networking equipment, it's speeds and feeds and how many ports and all that good stuff.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: With security, there's actually a real human element.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh who done it, attribution, what are they after, the good guys and the bad guys, and all the creativity involved with uh trying to figure out how the hacker got in and what are they after.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really putting yourselves in the shoes of the criminal, if you will, and trying to understand what they're after makes it really creative, really interesting, and almost like a cyber uh who done it kind of thing.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, have you seen that change over 20 years?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, yeah, it's definitely increased.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the efficacy of hacks, the creativity of hacks.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure a lot of folks have heard about the casino that got hacked through the aquarium.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Stuff like that is just amazing to me.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's fascinating.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I tell those stories all the time, even when I don't have to.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it seems like uh it's always evolving, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: What we were thinking about 20 years ago.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's still the same themes, but you know, the exact things are always changing, which is uh for me, one of the interesting things about cyber rights always changing.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not as you say, in speeds and feeds world, it's just getting faster.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like, you know, in this world, it's just constantly new things coming around.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's always uh some new way or new exploit or new zero day.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: You never know what's gonna come up.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh it's uh every day is different, and that's the best part about that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why startups in cyber are so important, right?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: The the innovation has to come from somewhere, and it's rarely the big companies that do the successful and and rapid innovation.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's always almost always a smaller one.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: You you spent some time early stage and sales leader at two companies where there was tech founders who were leading that innovation.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering when you were at those companies, what it felt like when you're working with a CEO or a CTO who perhaps didn't have the sales background and understanding and what you learned from that.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I uh you know you tend to uh operate in a vacuum uh when you're not as close to the to the end user, to the practitioner and the customer.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And really what I think is important is to understand what makes them look like a hero.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And in order to do that, you have to have, you know, a personal relationship.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be a personal thing.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: You have to understand what gets them up in the morning and uh how they're gonna get promoted, how they're paid, and what they're looking for in terms of their career trajectory.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm in sales, but the people I'm selling to are not.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're not driven by quota or by commission.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're driven by solving a real business problem with a really good piece of technology.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And whether you know they stay or uh are at that company or move on to another one, they want to make sure their heritage they leave behind every every day, every step of the way is success and protecting the company they're working for.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you understand how they how they gauge success, how they track their success and how they track track their progression in the career, then that's how you can quote unquote sell to them.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it becomes a very personal thing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that if you're too technical, you don't have the personal skills, or you're not an extrovert per se, or somebody that can ask those questions to understand what keeps people up at night, then I think you're gonna have some difficulty.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I I have worked for some folks that are very technical, and uh that's why they hire me.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm the uh, you know, I come in and uh I I'm able to talk to anybody about anything and make it personal and understand, you know, what success means to these folks.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So let me kind of draw a line in the middle there and see if I heard that right, which is if you are the super technical founder, you might be having much more technical meetings with the design partners, the the ones that you're validating the idea with.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all about the technical things, things like that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you're a bit more business oriented, you're thinking about maybe you know connecting with them and thinking about the problems that they're facing and how to solve those problems and therefore get a much better connection to what they truly need.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what I kind of got from that?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, for sure.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you're familiar with the OSI stack, you know, it's layer one through seven.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I always say there's another there's an eighth layer.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: The eighth layer is the human layer in the OSA stack, OSI stack, and uh the eighth layer is the political one or the the one where you know it gets personal and you understand motivates people.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So after a couple of stints at these companies, then recently it was announced, although you imagine you've been working behind the scenes for a while now.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Revelstoke came out of stealth.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us all about uh what Revel Stoke is up to.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been almost two years of building, and uh it's been a very tough time for an extrovert like me during COVID and during stealth.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been fun, but it's been it's been trying just because, you know, like I said, my my purpose in life is to to deal with people, and it's it's there hasn't been too many people in the last year and a half.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: But uh well, my co-founder Josh McCarthy and I, we we left our last uh cybersecurity automation company, never planning to ever come back to automation.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when we left, we didn't look back, but uh everybody we knew in terms of customers, prospects, partners, all anybody wanted to talk about was automation.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the recurring problem statements for the existing solutions kept recurring.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so we started detecting a pattern in problems, and we devised a way to solve those problems, and we realized that our invention was actually a new company, a new product, a new platform.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so Josh and I put together a pitch deck, and uh, I guess not totally to our surprise, but to our surprise, there was an overwhelming positive response from all our due diligence and the investors and and users.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we know obviously know a lot of customers, and um we landed seed funding uh in July of 2020, is it 2020?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember, but uh yeah, we landed seed funding and then uh we just started building from there.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: We uh landed uh another you know seed plus or A1 round in uh April of 2020, or excuse me, 2021, and uh I'm losing track of time here.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, we just had a building.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're up to 30, 31 people today and closing our first customers, and uh we have lots more to go.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: We have a very, very robust pipeline.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I should add exactly what we do though.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So uh what we do is we're creating the I hate saying next generation, but it's basically the next generation, the next version, the next iteration of source, uh, which is security orchestration, automation, and response.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so the next generation is basically something that solves these recurring problems, and that's what Rebel Stoap Security does today.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: We have a generationally unique security uh platform for automation and orchestration in the SOC and for security programs.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm uh let's say I'm the SOC leader then, what problems do you solve for me?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the biggest problems is you know, security analysts in the SOC, they're not programmers.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the person that manages the SOC wants to spend their time and money and their precious resources on security analysts and solving real problems and you know remediating hacks and things like that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to hire security programmers.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the first uh generation of SOAR platforms required, inadvertently required these SOC managers to hire programmers.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And these programmers were there to maintain the connections and the integrations of these third-party solutions.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so every time uh they needed to maintain a workflow or an integration, they had to recode it.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: They had to know Python, they had to do other things like that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so essentially what that led to is not only pain, it led to lack of adoption and a lack of retention.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially, that first generation of SOAR platform did not deliver on its promise.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh a lot of firms found that they either had to employ a staff of programmers to keep it up and running or just abandon it altogether.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we solve is that we solve exactly that.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: We have what's called a universal data layer, which is a patented way, we call it UDL.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Universal data layer allows you to switch uh vendors, say of EPP vendors, without having to code.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we remove the need to code and we call it a no-code, low-code platform because you can either choose not to code at all, or you can choose light coding and programming and customizable if you need it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's an industry first, and uh, we're getting a massively positive reception.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I bet.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you're taking away the complexity and the hassle.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I imagine most people see the sense in it, right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: In version one, but uh it was seemed like it was so damn hard to do that they either gave up or did it in in piecemeal.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is that fair?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was there's a number of reasons, but that was the number one reason was that you know, security analysts aren't programmers, and this is too hard to use, too hard to adopt.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the average lifetime, not a lifetime, but you know, career span for somebody in the SOC isn't that long.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: They last 18 to 24 months before they get a different job or get you know hired away.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, what that means is that you have to hire somebody else to replace them and they have to relearn the system.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it needs to be something uh easy to learn, easy to rampant, very productive and very powerful.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when it's when it's you know cluesy and too hard to use and you need programming skills to keep it up and running, it just doesn't scale.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've solved that core problem um among others, too, by the way.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So but that's the first one.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So your the point now, uh well, let me kind of wind back a little bit.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're kind of unique in that it is not often you get a sales leader who goes on to then become the founder CEO of a company, right?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: You the classic is the founders are usually more technical, product management or or technical, and then the sales leader comes in afterwards, and then when a sales leader is the CEO, they tend to come in series B C, something like that, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, how was that transition from you from leading a sales team to suddenly being at this super early stage, no sales calls probably to do, right, for a long time, and then trying to figure out how to be a CEO?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it's uh fraught, it's fraught with peril, so it's not for the uh faint apart.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so first off, you know, sales mentality is you know, you know, red meat, hunter-killer kind of thing, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, working with people, and obviously I kind of had I kind of I absolutely had to lay that aside and uh that mentality.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: So number one, I took a big pay cut, which is always painful for anybody in sales or sales leader.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then number two, as I mentioned earlier, you know, it's been I'm an extrovert and it's tough talking, not talking being able to talk to people, uh promote what I'm doing or promote myself.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I just had to stop doing that because we were in stealth.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then I would say number three, which is probably the the biggest impact for me, was that the realization that you had to be good at more than one thing.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good at sales, I'm good with people, I'm good with go-to-market strategy on a global basis.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's no question.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have a playbook, I know what to do.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: However, CEO, you have to be good at everything.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: You have to understand things, the F-word, which is finance, and uh all the metrics associated to SaaS and things like that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how to communicate with board and effectively run a board meeting of how to find your mentor, pick your mentors and and work with them on a regular basis.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how to communicate with your own engineering staff, which you probably didn't really have to do as you go to market leader prior, not to the level that I am now, and understand exactly what they're doing and why, and make sure they're not just uh snowing you with something that uh isn't uh completely accurate or true.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that would be the biggest thing is having to be good at more than one thing as a CEO is is been interesting, uh, and um just get more organized and more disciplined.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I would imagine there's a element as well of you know, you're in a great state in terms of knowledge and confidence and competence running a sales team, and suddenly you you've got to admit you don't know all this stuff, and you can't pretend you know it, right?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be afraid to ask for help or or say you don't know.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I learned working with the board is these are your investors.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have to pick the right investors, it goes without saying.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you need operational investors, in my view, that actually may have uh started their own company or been very close to starting companies and things like that, because you're gonna lean on these folks as your primary mentors.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: They need to add value.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's more than just money, it's their knowledge, their contacts, their experience, their scar tissue, you know, the things that they've learned along the way while making mistakes and having success as well.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: The number one thing you learn working with the board as CEO founder is don't be afraid to deliver bad news.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Don't try to hide it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, in sales, you know, we tend to have what's called happy years, which means that uh, you know, every every everything's an opportunity to close, even a no.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we tend to be uh eternal optimists.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying you shouldn't be, but I'm just saying as founder CEO, you need to deal with a lot more reality than you would if you were just running sales.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that includes bad news.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interesting.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can I can see that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're at the point where you're moving from I I guess from product market fit into trying to establish the go-to-market fit.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're you're interesting because you you, as you say, you've got your playbook, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you you you know in in the right sort of air in the dart board where to be playing.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yet you've got to bring in a sales leader and somehow let them, you know, feel like they're in control as well.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: How are you thinking about that whole process?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I am bringing in a sales leader, and you know, one of the things about sales, successful salespeople or salespeople in general is you know, we're all control freaks.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: We like having account control, we like controlling information, we like understanding how everything's gonna work and when it's gonna come in, and you know, who's who's the decision maker, follow the money, all that stuff.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so that's I'm used to it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in my element right now because we finally released.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh to hand over the reins to a sales leader, I I'm sure I know it'll be fine, but I know it'll be interesting for me because I'm used to controlling every aspect of that to a degree.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but you know, at the same time, I also realize that I think I'm the best marketing person, I think I'm the best channel person, you know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I if you it, you know, I think I'm the best dangerous engineer in the world too.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be, you know, a bit modest and uh I realize you don't know everything.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And again, in sales, you know, I'm sure uh you know the goal here when you're in charge is to hire better people better than you and uh and let them run, you know, weapons free, let them go.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So and I think the thing in your favor though, as well, is that you you'll have such a good network that whoever you bring in won't be someone off the street, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll you'll have an existing relationship and trust and and it'll all be in place already.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um recruiting's always been one of the my strengths uh because of my network.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, back to what I mentioned earlier, I'm an extrovert and I love talking to people to my detriment sometimes because um you know I I have folks that you know coach me to spend less time talking to people that you know may not be in the critical path for what I'm trying to do.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: But in any case, I have a great network and I find a lot of great talent.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And people send me the resumes and ask me for advice on where they should work and you know, is this a good person or company to work for?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that sort of thing.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I've always been a resource and I've always been open to asking for help because I've asked for a lot of help too.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's one of the biggest compliments you can you can provide to somebody is asking for help because you're admitting they know something better than you do.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: In that case, I uh you know, yes, I have a great network.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've got great candidates for sales worldwide to right now, and uh I'm ready to hire them.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just need uh the business to catch up.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh, you know, we just launched, but uh it it'll happen and I'll be able to roll out a team here pretty quickly.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, very much looking forward to to a lot of these great folks that I know and work with in the past and bringing them on board and creating a family.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that'd that'd be a lot of fun, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: You get to put uh maybe in some cases putting the band back together, but also maybe it's a slightly different band each time you do it because you've got more experience with a more network.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it yeah, you can't be afraid to you know bringing some fresh blood, as they say.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: But in the end, the goal is to create a you know a great culture, an open and trusted and empowered culture that's not micromanaged and that's like I said earlier, weapons free, ready to go.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sounds like fun.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So just on that though, so your first hire sounds like to be the CRO.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of interested how you think about what happens from there.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is it uh AEs?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You you have a couple of SEs, how do you think about that?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: How early do you go BDR?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you in-source or do you outsource?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think about the next few moves in the sales team like that?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the goal, the goal really overall, no matter who you hire, no matter what title it is, is to understand exactly you need more at bats.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean is you need to understand your sales cycle completely.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where this the go-to-market specialist kind of thing comes in.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if you understand how people decide whether or not to buy your product, is that proof of value, a proof of concept, do they need to do that before they buy?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if so, what does that proof of value look like?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of people, what kind of processes, and uh what kind of length of time and dependencies are required to get that proof of value done.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So once you understand how they buy and who buys it, the persona, then you can build the sales team and a sales motion around that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And lucky for me, the platform we're selling is very similar, not technically, but very similar in terms of market and go to market to prior products that I've sold.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I understand the persona of the buyer and I understand their needs and problem statements.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I can build the sales team around that.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, I am going to be hiring a CRO first, but the understanding is that the CRO won't have much of a team to start with.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the CRO needs to be a bag-carrying CRO, somebody who can actually close deals and sell and pound nails, as I say.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't need a professional manager CRO.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I need a player coach CRO.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh somebody who can obviously, you know, as as the company grows, they can scale the team and add capacity in uh key areas with key people.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, but that's the first thing is that they've got to be a bag carrying CRO that I sell every day.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I make cold calls and send emails out and hunt down deals.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I expect the same thing out of this person as well.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you think about SDR, BDR, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Needed, important, in-source, outsource.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think about that?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Critical.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's critical.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've I've created BDR teams.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, that's how I started my career is you know, quote unquote dialing for dollars for Oracle Corporation and uh at F5 as well.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then I built inside sales teams at Blue Code Systems, I manage that team, built and managed that team.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh as part of my sales leadership roles, I've always managed those teams as well.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: But so it's very, very critical.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I call the BDR, the SDR team strip of the spear, and the key differentiators is this a product you can sell over the phone or not?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if it is, then you need, you know, an SDR, ISR type team where they're not only qualif qualifying deals, but you're also segmented the market in such a way that they can close deals over the phone.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think our product will be sold over the phone, at least not for starters.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So what we need is a BDR role, and what that role does is takes leads, generates leads, generates prospects, and uh turns them into next steps in the meetings, such as you know, Zoom meetings, live demos, that sort of thing, generate the interest necessarily to initiate a proof of value.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's this tip of the spear, that's the first steps of our sales process that the BDR will be focused on.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I can't wait to build out that team because again, they're critical.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I understand it, and I know how we're gonna use it, and it's gonna be a lot of fun.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And where in the country do you think they should be placed?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they should be in they should be in Hawaii, so I can visit them often.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or Costa Rica.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not thank you, but um, you know, I I I think in this day and age, you know, COVID and the reality is that the distribution.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think it'd be very effective.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ideally, everything that I've ever done in the past is always we've all got to be in the same building and in the same fit.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that that applies anymore.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that COVID's proven to us that the uh distributed team can work and work very, very well.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh focusing on a high quality of life and work from wherever they sit and um you know have the tools available.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now that said, I think it's got a great idea to get together with the quarter in person if possible, as long as there's not a pandemic you know to contend with.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I do think you know meeting and talking to people in person is critical, but it doesn't have to be every day.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an exciting time at Revel Stokes, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're in that birthing stage as you're as everyone's coming out, and it's always excitement when that happens, attracting great people into the team, attracting great customers as well, right?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's so important to get the right ones working with you, right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, yeah.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're uh uh make it really dramatic.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're emerging out of the chrysalis and are gonna fly away.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, no, it's it's it's great.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let me change text on you a little bit.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So there is no better way to find out about the real true Bob Cruz than by using one of these bullshit LinkedIn polls that uh get circulated all the time.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got two for you, actually, three for you today.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So first one is from Ember Student, and the poll was which superpower would you like to have?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a mind reading, B invisibility, C, flying, or D.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: I already have a superpower.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I would absolutely love to fly.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would be really cool.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all have dreams of flying, and you know, I think that would be pretty cool, not only because it would cut down commute times, but you get a pretty good view, and uh, you know, that'd be pretty interesting.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm with you on that.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would have chose flying for sure.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, flying for sure.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Invisible one's kind of creepy.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: You see the invisible man, it's just it's not good.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not good.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole angle to that, yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the the results from it were mind reading was top at 54%.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And only 9% agreed with you and I to say that flying was what they really wanted.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: What's wrong with people?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand that.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Fascinating that the 18% said they already had a superpower.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So either they got a good sense of humor or uh they've got an over-inflated sense of their own importance.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Second one.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I will say I do I do have it, I do have a superpower.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: My superpower is uh I know when I'm I know when I'm full of shit.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've got a good healthy dose of reality, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: About what you what you do.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Number two from I think this must be a company name, something 24 AI India.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: So are you A, an early bird, B, a night owl, or C late to bed, early to rise?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh boy.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, you know, it just varies.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I credit my wife with getting this up and going in the morning.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: She's a fireball and keeps me on my toes in terms of, you know, we go on walks every day.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I would start to say between the two early birds, probably more of what we are thanks to thanks to my wife.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I would say, you know, there's one category that's not named there, and I would say I'm a napper.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I like taking naps.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: The power of a nap is incredible, especially as you get a little bit older as I am.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: If I was president, I would make naps law.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: No question.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Should live in Spain.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have the right siesta every afternoon.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hey, I believe in it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, you're right.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a powerful tool.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I used to be able to do the 10-minute nap, and at the end when I woke up, I was alive again, whereas before I was you know struggling, you know, crawling on the floor almost.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing that that 10-15 minutes the power has over me.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, during stealth I took a lot of naps, and now I can't take naps.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's really frustrating.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Last one, and this is this I don't know if any of these actually apply to you, but from Nick Xanis.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Zanis, which is most important to you and your organization right now?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: A increasing average deal size, B shortening sales cycles, C reducing ramp times, or D, other?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's B compressing the sales cycle.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So back to the what I we were talking about earlier as it relates to the BDR, you know, creating the proof of value, proof of concept, the evaluation of the product.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with this particular platform that, you know, the industry that we're in, uh, scope creep is a constant concern.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to be very uh uh diligent and uh understand exactly what the requirement success requirements are for every customer engagement, and we can't let the goalposts move.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would say that's why you know compressing the sales cycle is top of mind for me right now because we have a lot of opportunities, it's just about completing them and executing and bringing them in.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So last question for you Is there a sales question or a sales saying that you just cannot stand and you wish to discard it into the far reach of the universe, never to be used again?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: What would that be?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some key terms that are really annoying, like pivot.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's big that's been a big one, right?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: New paradigm pivot.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh even though I used it, you know, next generation's kind of annoying as well.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that mean?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty funny.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the traditional sales thing, you can tell when something's pretty old school.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've been subject-I almost didn't get hired because of a pair of my shoes.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: The hiring manager didn't like my shoes, even though they I thought they were nice.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, the uh sell me this pen, like where's my pen?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sell me this pen.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's pretty annoying, right?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or what's the what's the last book you read?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's another annoying one, right?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know, if you could bring somebody back from history, who would that be?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's really old school stuff, you know, that's just really annoying.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: But um you're thinking they're just gonna be selling, and you're asking me about philosophical stuff, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're just just you know, it's just what it's yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, that kind of thing, or like, yeah, just kind of those cliche things, you know.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I just like to get to know the person and ask them, you know, tell me what you're good at, tell me sh give me some examples of what success means to you, and give me some examples of when you failed and when you tried and failed, and what is you know, what were your key takeaways.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I need to know I need to know that somebody has the ability to because we're all gonna make mistakes.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as a manager, as a leader, you have to understand that you will make mistakes and you have to be okay with that.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about making them, it's about recovering from them and learning from them.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so in every interview, I try to try to understand if that person has the ability to self-reflect, the the malleability to recover from, you know, a mistake.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that perspective.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, Bob, any if someone wants to get a hold of you, if they're just interested in continuing the conversation or contacting you about openings and future things like that, how do they get a hold of you at Revelstoke?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just shoot me an email.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's real easy.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's B-O-B Bob at revelstoke.io.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: You get the D-O, I got the I.O.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh B-O-B at Revelstoke.io.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's that's my email.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've really enjoyed the conversation.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot for joining the podcast today.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Andrew.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's been uh been a pleasure.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.