Latest / Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman / Dr. Nicole F. Roberts on Repetitive Brain Trauma, Youth Sports Safety and Concussion Prevention | Broken Brains Ep. 113

Transcript

Dr. Nicole F. Roberts on Repetitive Brain Trauma, Youth Sports Safety and Concussion Prevention | Broken Brains Ep. 113 · Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_04: Hey folks, welcome to another edition of Broken Brains with your host, Bruce Parkman, the official podcast of the Mac Parkman Foundation, where we look at the issue of repetitive brain trauma from two aspects or two perspectives: repetitive impacts from contact sports, which impact our children, athletes, and repetitive blast exposure for our veteran population coming from their military service and actions and combat.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_04: And what these conditions or what repetitive brain trauma is doing to the brains, mental well-being, and futures of our children, parents, and athletes.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: Why is this important?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because the correlation between contact sports, repetitive brain trauma, damage to the brain, and mental illness is not taught in any nursing, medical, psychological curriculum in this country, making you the first line of defense.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why we bring on amazing guests and speakers from around the world of brain health in order to make you as informed as possible.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: And today we've got another amazing guest, Dr.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: McNicole Roberts.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: And she's got a whole bunch of letters after her name.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: That means she's very, very smart, is a public health expert, neuroscientist, researcher, and founder of the Health and Human Rights Strategies, a healthcare and human rights advisory firm.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: Her work focuses on the intersection of neuroscience, public health, human well-being, and healthier communities.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: With extensive experience leading nonprofit organizations around the world, Dr.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: Roberts has dedicated her career to research and initiatives that improve health outcomes and quality of life.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: She earned her master's degree from the University of Chicago and her doctorate in public health from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: Her writing on public health science and neuroscience has appeared in numerous magazines and academic journals, and she's a frequent contributor to news sports and podcast conversations.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: Dr.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: Roberts lives in Washington, D.C.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: with her husband and son, and she's also the brainiac behind Lee Steinberg's amazing Super Bowl party, which is how I met her last year.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: Dr.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: Roberts Nicole, welcome to the show.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having a morning kombucha, and it's in my big UNC cups.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Oh heels.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_04: So we won't we won't talk about the Wolf Pack or anything like that on this show.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh we all hate Duke.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: So it doesn't matter.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: I said, I didn't know that, man.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: I used to go to a lot of Wolfpack games and I was stationed at Fort Bragg for some reason.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that makes a lot of sense.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: My husband was in my husband was actually born at Fort Bragg and was stationed there.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, really?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_04: You guys got a little connection to the old home of the Green Beret place there, or the home of the airborne.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_04: They're a much larger organization.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: So cool beans.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_04: Well, oh, Dr.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: Roberts, talk to us about your journey.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_04: How did you get into healthcare?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: How did you get into brains in the first place?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_04: What made you interested in becoming, you know, getting into public health, you know, and and and and adopting and helping out so many amazing, you know, uh efforts in your life?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, it's, you know, we are we are the culmination of all of our experiences and our lessons learned.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up, um, well, first I grew up in a family of service.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, uh, but mine looked like firefighters.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: So my grandpa, my dad.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up with men who um were always public servants and always, you know, deeply caring about others.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I don't know why this just popped into my head, but even thinking about like holidays, because because the men in my family were firemen, they would all volunteer to work holidays.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: So like we never had Christmas on Christmas.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: We never celebrated a birthday on a birthday.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was one of those things where they would always volunteer to work that shift so that others could be home.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then that like next Saturday, we would all do our big, big, big family uh thing at my grandparents' house.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think I I just inherently grew up with role models who always were out as EMTs and firemen, like helping people and volunteering.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I admittedly had um uh complicated, let's call it that, wonderful, but complicated childhood.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was fascinated with why people behave the way they do and why they think the way they do and when things are different.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so as early as high school and into when I went to college, I was psychology and biology, and I was just obsessed with sort of human behavior.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't know what that would look like.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Admittedly, I think in that young age, I thought I'm gonna be a neuroscientist, and no one in my family had ever gone to college before me.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I knew some of the words, but I didn't know the journey, I didn't know the path.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so what actually ended up happening, um, and I want to uh just be very clear about that, is you know, I'm not a licensed neuropsychologist or neurologist, uh, but I went educationally up through that path.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then I decided to get my doctorate in public health.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so while I worked for centers for neuroscience and I studied in that area, I didn't actually complete my doctoral degree um in that field.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: I I went into public health because I had this moment, I don't know exactly when it happened, but I panicked.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's because of my specific age and timeline.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I went, oh my God, I'm gonna end up in the middle of my medical school class.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna work in a mediocre hospital and I'm gonna write prescriptions for the rest of my life.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it just it hit me like I was scared to death.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh my God, I worked so hard for this thing, and all of a sudden I don't, I don't think that's what I want.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I took a step back and decided that if I could help change the system and the root causes of things, I would have a much bigger impact because I was never going to be the world's best neuroscientist, or and I'm not the world's best public health expert either, but I just felt like my ability to change public policy, to change the way we behave, to meet people after tragedy, that I would be able to have a much bigger impact than being on the path I was on.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: So um it wasn't linear, and yet I feel like in this much older age, it all made sense.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: It all makes complete sense and it all fits together.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think of everything we do in the brain space as public health.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Everything we touch, see, smell, hear, it affects who we are as humans.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's our public health.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think right now, you you and I have talked about this several times, is that, you know, when it comes down to public health, I mean, the the way we understand what what we understand about the brain and and the the impacts that we are uh having on the brain from a wide variety of issues, you know, it could be domestic abuse, could be violence, could be repetitive brain trauma, it is a huge gap in the conversations um in in in in in public health right now.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: Well why do you think that is?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a couple things at play simultaneously.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: The first, and particularly in the military world, I know you know the invisible injury, you know, um, and you can see a broken bone, you can see blood, you can see bruising, you can't see the brain, and you can't see what it looks like after a blast or after an injury.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and we have such a hard time visualizing things we can't visualize.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there's that invisibility that that is part of the equation.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: I also think on the social side, and I'm really glad you mentioned domestic violence as one.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's taboos in different ways around these topics.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to sport, we love sport, particularly Americans and our American football.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: We love it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not going anywhere, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we we always talk about how do we make it healthier, how do we make it safer, how do we protect children?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because we know the brain isn't fully developed until your 20s.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's hard, I think, the cognitive dissonance for people to say, well, I grew up doing this and it was fine.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean we we shouldn't or can't do this anymore?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Secondarily, we love to watch this thing, we love to participate in it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: We sport is such an incredible platform and I believe form of diplomacy.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Children don't have to speak the same language to play.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so to all of a sudden say, well, there's something not great about this thing that you love, it it causes people to have cognitive dissonance.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then on, say, the domestic violence side, again, it's these taboos of things that we don't want to think about, we don't want to acknowledge, even if it's in our own home, but certainly when it's in other people's homes.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's none of our business.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's their home, their private life.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there's these multiple things that just create the perfect storm of us wanting to sort of cover our eyes and look away, as opposed to have the really hard conversations.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: I, you know, I absolutely agree.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I had a chief of staff of a senator talk to me one day and he said, Hey, you know, remember the Zika virus?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: He says, Yeah, we we appropriated$60 million to treat it.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, I think because we thought it was a mass thing.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: He said, unfortunately, like only two people really were affected, like two people died.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: He said, go make some buzz.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: Why do we have a situation like repetitive brain trauma affecting, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of veterans, you know, millions of children, millions of adults.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_04: And yet to this date, the conversation has not changed about this issue even since CTE was formed.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's it's in the press.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, New York Times has had like four different articles to start a football season on CTE, and we'll we'll talk about that a little bit.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: But the conversation at the national level, where change can can affect even the CDC, NIH, why is this okay?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and I talked about this a little bit too emotionally yesterday about, you know, why is it okay for us to have school shootings and we don't do anything about it?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: Why do we have this epidemic of preventable mental health or treatable mental health, and we're not preventing or treating it, in your in your in your opinion?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's the billion trillion dollar question.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And God helps us, I certainly don't have the answer.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there's also right, I think there's a lot of complex things that are happening at the same time.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: One being uh to what I just said, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: There's certain things we don't want to talk about, we don't want to think about.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we are uncomfortable when we are forced to do so.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think um we also so this is a weird thing for me to kind of say we use sport, particularly American football, right now, over the last few years, has gotten all this attention for the specific thing.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: You use the example of CTE.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: The average American does not know an NFL player, will never meet an NFL player, and they think of it as like this N of one that is some elite whatever, and it doesn't affect them till late in life, and they made a ton of money, and and right, we can kind of put it off as like that's not an us problem.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: When you and I in reality know it starts the first time you allow a child to play tackle football.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not, I mean, that's not sexy.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's like telling people don't drink wine, don't go have fun on the weekends, don't like, I mean, it's the things that are very American about how we spend our weekends and our time.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing you mentioned, particularly is military.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're at a point, and this is the last time I looked, but you know, our recording versus when this comes out, it could all be different.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: But we're at a point where less than or about 1% of Americans have been active duty.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: So again, that idea, it's a they.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Same problem.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: We 99% of Americans don't have an immediate person in their entire circle of friends or family that has been active duty.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: They do not know what that experience is like.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's movies, we hear stuff on the news, but again, it is constantly a they.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm never gonna be one of those, I don't know those, I'm never gonna meet one.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's it's we, these cohorts in which we have seen the data and are at a higher risk, are a they to the average, I would say, American.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so we don't internalize it.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's a them problem.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I don't smoke, so that's a smoker's problem, lung cancer, right?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: And yet we see the percentage of Americans dying of lung cancer from pollution, everything else, but it's it's a they sort of problem.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And to your senators, you know, aides, whatever point, it's about making noise.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think the noise has to be made at a level where it can affect you and you understand that.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now, something like Zika is very unique.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and now I'm wearing my public health hat.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Some of those few images that came out in the early days of Zika were terrifying.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the idea of seeing a child or an adult die in this specific, horrific way, like it it the visuals I think did a lot of the work there.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was really traumatizing for people.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And the idea that all it took was a mosquito.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, those are everywhere, particularly in the south.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like is mosquito, is this mosquito carrying dengue fever?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is this anything?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're seeing it in Georgia right now.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, Georgia's had a like the state had a public health announcement, like their Instagram is there.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're seeing these things.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: You've got a mosquitoes are a mess, but but that's always been their job.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um so again, you know, I I just think there's multiple things at play.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: And as long as we externalize the problem to other people, and it doesn't affect them till later in life when they've already lived a life, they've been successful, they've whatever, whatever, we don't take it as seriously as that's my child that could get stunned by a mosquito.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's that easy.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, you know, we send them out to do play after play after play every day after practice and on weekends for fun, and we cheer it on.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's a tough thing to reverse psychologically.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where I thought that, you know, to your right.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you're absolutely right.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, a lot of people don't know veterans, they watch them on TV, and same thing with football players.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: But when we start talking about children, everybody's got children.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's where the argument is now, you know, it becomes, you know, I think we're starting, uh, you know, we talked about the consumer.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: Who's the consumer of this information?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's the mom, right?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_04: The dad.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, of course, mom, nobody's touching mom's kid, right?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so I have a voice.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody's touching that, nobody's touching that kid.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, and so yet, you know, we've reached out to like, you know, 40 and 50 podcasts on parents and saying, look, we've got this information that every parent should know.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, we're not, uh, you know, we don't get a call back, nobody wants to touch it.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, all right, why?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: Why are we, you know, when, you know, and we know how long it took seat belts to be, you know, scientifically proven, and how long it took the tobacco system to finally meant, yeah, tobacco gives you cancer.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: We know this is a fact.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_04: We know that, you know, you know, that the what we this issues we talked about, repetitive brain trauma, repetitive impacts, contacts, sports, is a fact.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: And yet the facts are not moving the needle.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it's uh and they for a long time in tobacco.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, tobacco's a really great uh and I say that especially with the NFL.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they followed pun intended, the playbook of big tobacco, and deny, deny, deny, divert.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: And people wanted to smoke.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: It made them feel cool, it made them feel like an adult.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: It made it was all about how it made you feel.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and you saw, I mean, as early as what was it?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um I Love Lucy again.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_04: Wait.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: But she was required to smoke in every episode.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the commercial, they were it was brought to you by and and the first woman, Lucy, right?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it was such a cool, sexy thing.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: People wanted to try, they wanted to do.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then you go, even you know, take that exact generation.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden you go, Oh, by the way, that's really terrible.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna die an awful death, and you're gonna die.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're telling them everything they were sold, literally, for decades was a lie.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's so hard to reverse that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we heard up until probably what six years ago.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was at the I live in Washington, D.C., and I was at the congressional testimony the first time that I won't name names, but someone from the NFL's um leadership said that he wouldn't answer the question.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: He he avoided every question until one specific that was in the house.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: But a representative just said, does repetitive head trauma lead to, you know, out like bad outcomes, like outcomes that include.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And she put him in a and she finally said yes or no.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: And she cornered him.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: He finally said yes.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember everyone in the room looking around, going, okay.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: We finally got someone to say yes.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: This but it it took until literally just a few years ago, like right before the year or so before the pandemic, before this was even a forced yes.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's just something people do not want to talk about, they don't want to think about.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's terrifying.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, CT.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Losing our memory, losing our minds is inherently losing us.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: It loses, it's it's our humanity.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: You can break a leg, you could even lose a limb, you can, and it changes who you are.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: It changes how you interact on a day-to-day basis, but you're still you at your core.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Your heart, your brain are still the same.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: When you lose your identity, who you are, I mean, that's it's it is, I think, more terrifying than anything else to people.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_04: And and nobody, and I think somebody, and this is where the the problem lies, I think, in a lot of these discussions is like we people love football.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they love soccer, they love all these sports, and nobody plays them because they want to lose their mind later on in life.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wonderful lessons.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm like, yeah, and and then you know, a vast majority of the people that play these sports seriously to become professionals never make it.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_04: And they, you know, they end up damaged.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think what the professional leagues run the risk of is that right now they are sexy.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: It's a great, it's a real, I mean, look at the World Cup, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: All these people showed up, they love soccer out the yang.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, uh, you know, and and and and and and that's beautiful.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: But we also run the risk that if this is not, we'll just say, adequately addressed before the public does realize how bad this is, and that the knowledge has been around and children haven't played sports, then that that varnish of coolness and sexiness could deteriorate into something a lot uglier that's going to impact, I think, the leagues if they if they don't get ahead of this.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I and that's part of it's not and this is not just about professional sports.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's we're talking entire industries of child sports and stuff like that, that this needs to be, I mean, I think it's a public health risk that is just not discussed.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I remember, I mean, when you look at so we we talked about smoking, but you can look at other things out in the world.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, look at the opioid epidemic is probably the most recent in which we spent the 90s, the early 2000s, even the 2010s basically farming out, you know, pain medication, all for it to come home to roost.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's it takes one or two documentaries showing what the Sacklers did, what the so-and-so, right, who the pharma industry was supporting, how the the brand reps, you know, not necessarily complicit, but were certainly part of the pipeline.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you see these things and you go, holy shit.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you realize for decades, the entire industry was making money off the backs of people not knowing any better and be being fed, you know, misinformation.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes very, very, very intentionally.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they didn't know in the early days, and then as they learned, right.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely think you're right in that there could come a time in the not too distant future when some more information comes out, and um people who at that point will be old and probably not held to account in any way, but it'll come out how much they knew and when.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing I think that we have as a big, big challenge, and I really empathize uh with teachers and coaches.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And those in the education system.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're already working with such limited resources in most of our schools around the country, from you know, kindergarten through elementary to middle school and high school.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just across the board, our education system is a mess.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so then you ask people to take on extra costs and extra time for things.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really, really difficult.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, a lot of our coaches are wonderful, but they're volunteers, they're dads, the PE teacher is also the history teacher is the, you know, whatever.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Are they equipped to teach kids in the same way like an FL coach would?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's not their job.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: They shouldn't be, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's a reason these coaches are in the positions that they're in.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time, the way they train those guys, what they know to do and not do, and what leads to more injury or less injury, at the professional level, they're really starting to hone in on those things because they want, you know, these in at least in American football guys, to have long careers.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And we can't afford to have the education, the training, the sideline testing, the MRIs, the all the things on every elementary sideline.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't make any sense, right?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: High school, it doesn't make any sense.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: We can't afford it, and it doesn't make sense.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so we have to work on, you know, how do we triage these things, whether it's prevention or injury, how do we educate?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: How do we learn best practices?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: An easy way would be no tackle until a certain age, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just take it out, take it out of the equation.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: You see it through up through the Ivy leagues.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um Dartmouth, I think, really led uh the the the cause.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: But then as far as I know, no Ivy leagues do helmet-to-helmet practice during the week, only during the game.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is reserved for the game.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: And the data show their performance is no better or worse.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: That it it doesn't, it's not like you see a decline in their performance on Saturday because they didn't go head to head Monday through Friday.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: We don't see a difference.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_04: So isn't the NFL doing the same thing?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_04: Aren't they?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_04: They don't practice, I don't think they have much contact, if any, during the season at all.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they they're definitely and I don't want to speak on behalf of each team because I they're all different.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And again, you know, by the time you see something and this thing comes out, and we it's always different because we're starting season.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yes, but to your point, yes, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: There there's changes that are being made, but we're not necessarily seeing those kinds of protective measures that are validated by data trickle down to your average high school or middle school or even elementary school.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and that was my point is uh, you know, even the professional leagues, if they're starting to focus in, of course they're incentivized by it's all about money, right?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's like these players are optimized if they're performing better and if they if they're not hurt as much, right?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's great.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they're incentivized to to take better care of the players in their brains, fantastic.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: But the problem goes is like they don't get to the NFL until they're very late in the career.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: We've got an entire you know decade or more of carnage that's happened to that brain.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's um, and I and I just uh you know, and if we're gonna learn from the leagues, and to your point, the data, and I want to talk about research and science a little bit, you know, that should be driving public policy.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: That should be driving the fact that, look, we've got these amazing organs, they're not muscles in our head.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_04: We're damaging our children, yet the Ivy Leagues and the NFL are winning titles and games and having fun, which is what sports is supposed to be all about.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, they're not hitting.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know, uh, you know, uh they're not hitting, they're hitting at like you know single-digit percentages of what our kids are hitting in middle school and high school.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's just uh, you know, from a public health perspective, you know, you would think that the benefits to our economy, society from less mental illness, less brain damage, less, you know, children, incarceration, all that other stuff that goes with it would be something that everybody would latch on to, Republican, Democrat, who cares, right?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: Who cares what kind of crazy?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: You should want this, right?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_04: But I don't know.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Agreed.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Agreed.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: And the data's there.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: We know it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's to your point, people don't want to have the conversation.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell you, I've written for Forbes.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Good Lord.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: 15 years now.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: I to your point about like I can watch the data.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: I can publish something about whatever's happening on Capitol Hill or the heat this summer.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: If I've published multiple things about the heat's impact on lots of things happening with our health, those get readers, those get clicks.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: When I write about concussion, CTE, brain trauma, particularly as it plays into sport, uh, I mean, the the readership numbers just plummet.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: The clicks plummet.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I've I've even been told that it was many years ago, but I was doing a follow-up article and an editor kind of casually like, yeah, but no one, no one reads it.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and don't you want and that was back very much in the click per pay or pay per click.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, why do you keep running about stuff?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody wants to care about it.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: I say, well, because I have a platform and I'm going to use it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: And someday, at least if anybody goes back, they say, Well, yeah, yeah, people were talking about this 15 years ago.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I can say clickwise, they don't do the same numbers as other issues.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and everybody talks, I talk about like evidence-based, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: Evidence-based is everything's got to be evidence-based, whether it's especially in public policy.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, sorry.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: Especially in public policy.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna take the mic with you.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, the and so everything's gotta be evidence-based.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: And yet, talking to you, there's evidence, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, I I think, you know, down here in Florida, right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: Big football state.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_04: We're talking to state senators, um, and and and and senior congressional leaders on the state staff, and and they'll tell us, I love sports and I love kids, and I'm listening, right?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because of the data, because the research is showing us that kids are going to jail, kids are seeing therapists, kids are taking their lives.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: And this is all relating back to the science.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we just have to do a better job of encasing that science in research and and just making this a compelling need to our car.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: We have instead of talking bad about football, we need to talk about how football can have better athletes and make more money and and and how we don't want to get rid of football.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we got to turn this argument around where we can have lower mental health issues and safer children, and yet we got to have our cake and eat it too, I guess, is what we're talking about.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's a very quick anecdotal story.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I was running a foundation years ago, and we were focused on food security in children.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And ultimately the organization, uh, its primary hub was India, and we were really working to prevent child marriage in certain communities, and I'll just broadly say exploitation of children, whether it's work or you know, whatever else.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And when I when I first stepped in, one of the things we realized was that messaging of preventing exploitation, preventing trafficking, preventing child marriage, it was so heavy and hard for people to understand that people felt like their, even if it we'll just keep it super simple, their donor dollar was not like my one dollar isn't going to stop these things from happening, you know, in this other place.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: The moment we pivoted the messaging to the power of a well-fed girl, and we started telling positive stories about what a girl could accomplish if she got to stay in school, if she didn't have to work, if she didn't have to get married, what she could accomplish.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it could even be in a lot of cases, it was sport.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: She could join a sports team.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: She could graduate from high school.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: She could, and just by flipping that frame from preventing this awful thing to the power of a well-fed girl, it completely changed our engagement, our partners, the donor-dollar.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it really was just a reframe of the same message.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that sat with me, obviously, you know, very strongly many years later, because I realized the hindrance wasn't what we were trying to accomplish as an organization.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was the weight of the story.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was the weight of the mission on other people who felt helpless.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I think what you just touched upon is something that the I think that's where the conversation's going with the professional sports league.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's like nobody's saying, you know, contact sports are bad.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_04: But I think we got to learn to say is that contact sports could be more profitable, they can be safer, they can we can have, you know, you know, you know, kids having fun.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I mean, I think you're right to your point, is we got to turn this around, you know, because when I came out as an angry father, I'm talking about dead children.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, nobody wants to hear that stuff, right?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_04: I got it, you know.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I think since we are looking at that message, just that pivot that you're talking about, but we're one of you know a few foundations.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_04: We're, you know, kind of like the only foundation in this repetitive brain trauma space.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that messaging that you're talking about, I mean, uh, do you think personally we can start getting the attention of colleges and and and professional sports leagues?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think so.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, honestly, I'll put my name out there and that's because you know, I think that's the message they want to hear, that they can address this tragic issue with, I mean, horrific outcomes.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_04: And kind of, you know, let's let's just look ahead.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: Let's look at it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we try to do with the Lee Steinberg Super Bowl party and his foundation that he just started.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: But the point is look at some of the sexiest words out there.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Longevity, elite performance, right?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: All these things that you could sell every pill under the sun, every juice, every the supplements I buy to stay alive, right?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think to your point, the the idea of selling this, and I hate saying it that way, but the messaging of do you want an elite performer?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want a Patrick Mahomes?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, guess what?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Patrick Mahomes played a lot of other sports.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: He did like his body of work, he was not a one-trick pony.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: He was well trained.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: His father was a player, like he was trained the right way, and he could diversify his sport, his education.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: He was the whole package, which is why he became like a Lee Steinberg client, right?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because he looks for he always looked for the whole package.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't, I mean, there's a reason in baseball.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: We have pitch counts starting in elementary school, because we know that if you throw the same pitch too many times while you're still developing, you will destroy your shoulder before you even get to high school, let alone beyond that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: And say with golf, like with we protect kids and start with like certain swings, how you do that, because we know the body musculoskeletal, like it's still developing, but we don't do it for the brain.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just think there's all these opportunities, if we could get that right messaging out about if you want an elite performer, if you want to be the best in college, if you want, then you have to be a whole, healthy person before that.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: You don't get to show up broken and be the best, whether you're the parent or the child.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I don't know how to do that well, clearly, or we would have done it and had more practice by now.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a brand new approach to it because I mean, uh you just think about what you just said, Nicole.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: Is that look, if we just had kids have fun, I mean, number one, look at all the NFL players that didn't even start playing football until they were sophomores or juniors in college, right?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you've got the genes who were basketball players until somewhere in high school, they then also picked up a football and they're in the NFL, right?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's because they're good athletes.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: How many guys?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: How many guys?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: I know so many college football players are also on the track team and were track stars in high school.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_04: Really?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like they're diversification of skills.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: I've heard that over and over again.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's because it's it uses your brain, it uses your muscles, it allows you to have different seasons, so you're not doing the same repetitive thing all the time.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Track, right, track is a nice break for your body, but you're still running, you're still active, you're still building muscle, endurance, but you're not doing the banging, you're not doing the shortstop sprints.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're not like it's a completely different way to use your body and to diversify your physical and mental skills.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we see it as small as um like four and five-year-olds, there's some very cool data that kids who learn to swim before the age of five are much better at reading and math all through elementary school.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's thought that because learning to swim, learning to stay calm under pressure, learning to hold your breath and perform like physical activities of how to swim, how to keep yourself up, it taps into something that developmentally just sets them apart.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a is and swimming.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, swimming is a a sport.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: But that skill at a young age changes a child performance in the classroom.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_04: I swim like a set of car keys.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_04: But that to your point, but to your point, I mean, parents should be should be paying so much attention to this because you know, Americans are pee for plenty, right?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: That's why our our veterans are kind of a mess, because you know, they train so hard for war, then they go to war and nobody believes in taking a break, right?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: We're so tough.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so they always think most of the parents we talk to is one sport over and over and over again.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: And you're making such a good point as to why you're you're you know, just give your child a break and and and not back the back.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, even if you do multiple sports, don't do like what we do with our son, multiple concussive sports, wrestling and football and snowboarding.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, pick something that's just golf or crying, anything to get that break.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: How and and and how important is that break?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that rest period for the body.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's got to happen, right?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: It has to, I mean, people always use the analogies of like when a device isn't working, what do you do?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: You turn it off, you plug it in, you let it reset.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we do it for everything under the sun that we touch 10 times a minute, you know, phones, airpods, computers, tablets.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we can do it for ourselves and most importantly, our kids.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, kids need sleep more than anything else.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Kids need sleep.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: It is so important for their development.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's if there's one thing I could actually just flip a switch on, it would just be getting parents to understand the power of sleep and development.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that I mean that that that is yeah.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I've until we started getting in a brain hell, I had no idea how important sleep was.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: It was like, yeah, just you know.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Rest our bodies and our brains need rest.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's when all the good stuff comes out and cleans.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Little Ts.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: They just run around, they clean stuff up.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_04: No, and and and I'm starting, you know, we we are starting to understand how important sleep is to clean out this limbic system, right?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_04: Start flushing all those toxins.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: You can't do it while you're you know performing.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: So that's how the body takes care of itself.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_04: It is important, especially with brain health.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: So let's talk about you know, we met last year at Lee Steinberg's amazing event.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_04: So, how did you get tied up with that?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_04: How does a public health expert, neuroscientist, and researcher end up running the premier brain event at the premier party at the premier sports event?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's an amazing story.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did how did you get tied up?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: It made me feel good.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Okay, okay, okay, keep it.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't I don't run anything.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be very clear about that.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't run anything.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: Look like it to me.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: I stand around, I hold the microphone, I point.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: I the well, the when it comes to the execution of the party, the production team, it's called Zoe Productions, they get all the credit.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're so incredible.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: Lee and I speak words to them, and they build a three to five thousand-person party at the Super Bowl.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just it whatever happens in their brains is not possible in mine.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I I can speak the words, I can say what I want to see, but what comes to life is just it's on a different level.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so how I met Lee is it's a silly story.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it would have been 15 or 16 years ago.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: We were both at the UN for World Brain Day.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was giving a talk on something very global public health, I think motorbikes in India.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Lee was giving a talk in sports.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know him.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know his name.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know who he was, but we chatted and we found out of all silly things we have the same birthday.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we were like, we're friends.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_04: Automatically.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: How do you we're spirit animals?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea who he was.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a mutual many people in common, but a mutual person, um, Rick French was his name from French West Bawn, a PR firm, just randomly said, Oh my gosh, you two need to talk.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like set a time on the calendar and talk.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Okay.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I went home.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: I lived in Chicago at that time.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I went home and I looked him up and was like, oh, wow, oh, like Jerry McGuire, Lee Stein, oh, oh.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and I was like, wow, okay, I'm on his calendar.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: That first call lasted, it was supposed to be 30 minutes.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: It lasted so long I missed a flight.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was flying from Chicago to DC, uh, because this is where I live now, but I used to go back and forth a lot.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I was sitting at O'Hare and I'm and I didn't want to put the phone down and go through security because I'm like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna get Jerry McGuire back on the book.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll go out to America, I'll get there.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so I finally go through security.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just kind of blown away by his story.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so the quick version of his story is in that real life moment, he did write a mission um back in 80, I think it was 83, and it was on concussions and brain injury, and he calls it his crisis of conscience.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, you know, I have guys who have won the Super Bowl, but don't remember being in the host city, you know, let alone the game.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: And these are humans.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're they're not commodities you buy, sell, and trade.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're they're people.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to treat these guys as the people that they are.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: They're our clients, our friends, our family.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: And from what I understand, the message in the 80s didn't go over super well, didn't get picked up and off to the races, or you and I probably wouldn't be having this conversation at all.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and in the 90s, he took it upon himself to start a series of summits.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he would have his guys, and so I think he mentioned one, it was like Steve Young, Warren Moon.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, not just average, like the elite guys, the guys, right?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: And they were all Lee's guys.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he would bring in neurologists, physicians, and he would give them a space to learn, to ask questions, prevention, treatment, all, you know, all the things.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I've heard him say, you know, about half the guys would were taking diligent notes.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: They wanted to know everything.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: And the other half just kind of put their fingers in their ears and went, la, la, la, la.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I get it.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: The the cognitive dissonance of being told what's possible and then going out and doing the job, right?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just, you're military.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: You get it, right?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to think about the alternatives.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's my job, the next play, the next down, the next game.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's what matters.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he did those for a number of years.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: So when we met, he ended up asking me, I don't know, maybe a year later, um, about doing something.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and I had heard, he's like, you know, I have the longest running party, the Super Bowl.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, sir.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Why in God's name would I know that?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know nothing about sport.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: I know nothing.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been to a Super Bowl.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, I don't know this.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he did this incredible thing, most generous thing I think anyone's ever done on a professional level like this.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: He he literally just goes, Well, what if, what if we work together and we take an hour to do good?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what does do good mean?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't And so what we built was we call it the brain health summit.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Very vague, but intentionally, right?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the concussion summit.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the TBI summit.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's brain health.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: It is about wellness.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: It is about all those things, the longevity, the elite performance, the whatever we want.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's all brain health.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: It could be cognition, it could be mental health, it can be any mental, it could be anything.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: And every it started as the opening one hour of his party, and it would go from 12 to 1.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then at one o'clock, the official Lee Steinberg party in red carpet would open.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: 14 LA, this upcoming summer will be year 14, the 14th annual Brain Summit.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: We are so embedded now that it's the programming throughout the day.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: There are other things and threads that we pull in our theme, but the Brain Health Summit and Lee open the event.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: We have panels on the stages throughout the day, even humanitarian awards.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: We've added some categories for brain health.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is literally the day.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: So for example, New Orleans, our theme for the entire party was music and the mind.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: In San Francisco, our theme was resiliency.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_04: I liked the 70s thing last year, too.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: That was pretty cool.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: That was fun.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: I like that.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: Really linked into old San Francisco.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we had that huge warehouse, and we it was fun.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: That was a lot of fun.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, this party is it's Lee's, it's you know, baby, it's incredible.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I met him through a moment of serendipity.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in that first call, we I mean, Lee's just a giver for every year when she said Lee's a giver.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but he he just opened up and gave in a way that was really remarkable.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew there was something there.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: I just didn't know what it was.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: Fourteen, I still don't know what it is all the time.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: But every year we we push on, we go forth, and um it's such a gift for me because I don't get paid to do the party.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't work uh for Lee and the Steinberg Sports at all in that sense.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: But he gave me a platform that's incredible, and I take that very, very, very seriously.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so every year I do feel like it is my job and my responsibility to share that platform with as many good, honest collaborators.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as I tell Lee, I wrote my dissertation many years ago on how to build public-private partnerships in neuroscience.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I genuinely believe his Super Bowl party is my, for me, the ultimate manifestation of that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: I get to use that event.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: And because it's invitation only, you can't buy tickets.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone invited, we believe, should know each other.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: And they are in our network.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: They are our friends, they are people that we trust, they have science, technology, the ability.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of policy people, everyone from team owners and players to the newest and sexiest technologies.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: And they get to mingle and party for six hours.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's just it's so cool that you can put people in that space and just say, you guys should talk.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then you find out later, so-and-so funded these clinical trials and so-and-so started this company.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: It it's it's so rewarding.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_04: And in 14 years, what are what what's like what's the most amazing thing you learned during these summers?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you pull in people.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I mean, I uh when I was there last year, I didn't go downstairs.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_04: I stayed up on that top floor the whole time because the conversations were amazing, the panels were astounding.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I would I went down to the technology place because you know, we I'm always digging that.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was really cool.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, the yeah, the people that you had up there, I don't even know how you uh found a book.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like you must have learned some like astounding facts or statistics or something while you're up there.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the I think it's a couple things.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: One, the progression.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: So again, to be to be us heading into year 14 of the Brain Health Summit being integrated fully into his party this way.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, 14 years ago, I can tell you, we were having very different conversations about the NFL and brain trauma.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Fourteen years ago, we weren't talking about neuroplasticity in the same way, just as casually, right?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Of like, well, we know the brain can take, we know the uh so much has changed.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like neuroscience has been stagnant for so many years.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Bush declared in 1990, President Bush, in a presidential proclamation, declared the 90 is the decade of the brain.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: And he said by the close of 99, we will have solved.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he ticked off all these things we're gonna solve.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, CT, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: Very little progress.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: And now I feel like we are finally starting to see all these breakthroughs, genuine breakthroughs come through in these various um modalities and treatments and preventions.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so the the conversation has changed.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think what is most fun for me is that every year the theme reflects the host city and where we are in time.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so, for example, Houston.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think Houston was the Super Bowl that we realized we really had something here.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's because I won't go into the detail, but I used Houston, I'd gotten some pushback, and I said, Well, they can't say no to veterans in Texas.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I printed American flag um business cards.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like one side was just a flag, and the other side was like brain hell summit.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I said they're no to vets in Texas.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: And they didn't.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we had Department of Defense on the panel.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that year it was just one, one opening panel.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: Is that still one year, one hour model?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had a Navy doc who had been assigned to the San Francisco 49ers for two years to look at the similarities between special teams and special forces and what their MRIs look like, what their testosterone levels, like just all the things about these cohorts of men who self-select into very aggressive careers.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and they're all the same age, right?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's the same age.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, uh, that was the year I think that I just like my mind kind of exploded.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I just went, holy shit.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like every year we can dig into something different.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: The year in New Orleans, when it was music and the mind, that one also kind of that one did something for me in a magical way because I knew that, particularly in Alzheimer's patients, um, playing music from their childhood or younger years does something remarkable to the brain.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like it unlocks things that have been forgotten.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: Music is so powerful in Alzheimer's patients.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew that, but I didn't know much else about that space.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the moment we chose music, and the Museum of Jazz was our venue that year.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: The speakers, the sponsors, the scientists, the universities who started coming to the table and going, Well, did you know this alternative therapy does this?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Did you know this that one was another one in which I just kept like I felt like every phone call, I'd go, I didn't know that.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: Can you send me the data on that?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: Can you do you have a publication on that?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: Can you?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I just had this folder of just cool stuff.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do we tell everybody that nobody knows about the big problem?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, and and you mentioned the San Francisco one, you know, I thought that one was very, very different and lovely for its own life because we as a country and as a people, I think, are in a place where having honest conversations about what being resilient really means, what it takes, and having not only neuroscientists and physicians and researchers, but like a Warren Moon, to have Warren Moon stand on that stage and share his stories about by the time he was playing in Canada because the NFL didn't want a black quarterback, that was a resilient man already.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: And how he dug into a place, you know, of his childhood and how he learned to persevere.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: And he, I mean, he's just such an incredible man.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember talking to him and saying, I'd really like you to talk about environmental health, like how your environment shapes you, and how you believe your environment and upbringing uh helped create your resiliency, like how you were able to handle things with such grace that were awful, discriminatory, and yet you stayed such a good person through all of this and did what was right.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's because he was raised in this environment where he had to be resilient, but he also, you know, had a wonderful mother and siblings.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just so cool when we are, I feel like every day we're drowning in a fire hose of just chaos and drama, and we get overwhelmed.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can only speak for myself, but like we get overwhelmed by things that it's not under normal circumstances, wouldn't feel like the house is on fire.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: But then you hear these stories from people who are like, I want to talk about what it means to be resilient as I understood it and my experiences.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you sit back and just go, wow, that's incredible.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so every year's just fun.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really looking forward to LA.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: We are doing something in the vein of honoring the past and writing the future.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't quite shorted up yet, but it's Lee's 40th annual party.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: So we want to really honor the past in this one, but also all that sexy stuff about you know making the future better, happier.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_04: No, I and I think, you know, along with that is something I want to talk about, uh, the messaging and just what you said.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_04: I think the future right now, for the first time since you know my son left me, and probably the last year half, I start, I've started to have like hope.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like with the change, the the can like research shifting from subcon uh from concussions to a repetitive impacts, and and TBI research shifting to blast exposure, and then the papers that are being processed, you know, being pushed out, the conversations that we are having, the interest, the understanding that logic and science is driving this, not you know, parents of dead kids and all that, and that there are, to your points, a pivot in the conversation about you know optimization and longevity and less mental illness and all this other great stuff.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, but um so the um so I think that right there, um, you know, that just the message are you feeling this that that that there is this you know, we have a conversations all the time among us, this this network that we have, and we just feel like that pendulum's starting to come back the other way, that people are listening, that you know there is lower participation in contact sports from people that actually read and try to understand, which is unfortunate for our, you know, our you know, our underprivileged communities that are picking up some of the pain, right?
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_04: But this this understanding that children and contact sports, there's something here that if we address it right, then we can have our cake and eat it too, as we said in the beginning of the show.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_04: I I think there's hope there now.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: I do too.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: And to your point, we are seeing, we are seeing differences.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, though, they're very socioeconomic driven.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there was, I read, I don't know if it was a year or two ago, a very wealthy suburb in outside Chicago for the first time.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: The high school couldn't have a football team because not enough people tried out.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: The kids were playing lacrosse and soccer instead.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they just couldn't, they didn't have enough guys to make a football team.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but again, this was a it's a very, very privileged area where they can afford to send their kids to lacrosse and golf and soccer and these other things.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it it wasn't embedded in the community in the same way, but it tells you that moms are reading and and at least in certain situations, moms are making choices.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: But again, it appears to be people who have the the financial means to make a lot of choices.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's something that we'll have to the.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's gonna be something that we're gonna have to work on.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I just um, you know, our my my son and Ray Lewis's son share the same uh day of recognition here in Florida, and I got to speak at um the memorial for um Ray Lewis's boy, uh his partner, Tatiana McCall of the RL3 and Foundation.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_04: We work very, very well together.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I was addressing an entire room of mostly African American folks talking about just calmly why this is an issue.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_04: And at the end of our my talk, this grandmother stood up, she goes, I don't know about y'all, but my five years out of this, he's out of this sport tomorrow.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, Ray was there, everybody was there, and she and it was all about, you know, look, we can have this, we can have football.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_04: We doesn't, you know, but we we we but we now understand what this can do to to developing brains.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_04: So let's just shift it a little bit, let's just play flag football.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_04: Let's just let's just have fun.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was in the Ezrak Mountains in Missouri, and when I was last home, I went to my nephews.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: My nephews play flag football, and they're good.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're they're really one of them's very good.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_04: And they probably had fun.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_04: And they scored very, very competitive.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: They had six fields of different going at the same time, but it was flag, and um, they don't do that during the school year, and uh because I've you know been to one of his games and full helmet, full pads, tackle.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: But in the summer, it's fun.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: Flag.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_04: At least it's a break.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think he because I I tried to subtly talk about it, right?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to my family knows where I stand, but they don't I don't want to impart my sister's decisions or not my decisions.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't think he cared.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think to him it didn't seem like there was a big difference.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: He he he was kids just want to have fun.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, my son actually ended playing football because his friends asked him to play.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the the the dumbest decision I ever made as a father was saying yes, but I didn't know.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know, he just wanted to play.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_04: He just wanted to be with his friends, and he was good.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I was like, ah, how do you fight that?
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and but to your point.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: And have fun is is it drives everything.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, it's it's it's got to.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_04: But so hey, um, if you can, can you talk about your newest position?
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_04: Sure, sure.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just just saying, if you want to check it out there, you're on a podcast.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we got you got you got a lot to do, you know, but you know, we can oh gosh, I have a lot to do.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I have Lee Lee and I, uh again, in our own way, I've been at this for 14 years.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so Lee just recently started the Lee Steinberg Foundation for brain health, um, concussion, traumatic brain injury.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I have agreed to uh become the CEO of the Lee Steinberg Foundation.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: And what's the carry-on work that we're doing we've done for 14 years, and now I get do it in a way where we can help fund research that we think is important.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: We can fund programs that are advocating and changing the lives of kids, of athletes.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't, uh we don't discriminate in that sense.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um but we are just really getting getting our feet under us.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: So now I have to fundraise.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_04: You always know when you do not disturb goes off when your phone starts ringing.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry about that.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_04: No, but that is an amazing accomplishment, Nicole.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, gosh, what what that foundation will be able to do, you know, just you know, being Jerry Maguire's foundation.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's gonna I I yeah, and it but it's the legacy, and I do believe the reason I like and I gave you you asked how we met, and I started with with Lee, not me.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't about when Lee and I met 14 or 15, 16 years ago.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: It it's about he started this publicly in the 80s, like the 40 years of him being an agent, the agent of agents, right?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Jerry McGuire.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: That speaks, I think, volumes to the love of football.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: He loves football.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: His clients love football.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's never a question of, oh, we should get rid of this.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we should.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's about we can we used to joust, we used to be gladiators.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: We used I mean, we we're humans, we're we've done dumb stuff for thousands of years.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: But what we can do is we see whether it's basketball and we have new kinds of sneakers, right?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like you don't wear a converse anymore.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're gonna play better if you're wearing better shoes with like better ankle.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, you know, we we can make sports healthier and safer, and that's what we want to accomplish.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think uh I think through Lee's advocacy of 40 plus years and and our collective groups, I I mean, I I think we can have a huge impact um to keep sports safe and healthy and fun and educational.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um we just we have to get going.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very I'm very excited.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I also recognize we have a big challenge in front of us and some of those same messaging problems that we spoke about on here, right?
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like those are all in front of us as we we ramp up because I'm sure a lot of people who know Lee as Lee and is the Jerry McGuire persona, like they're probably gonna have to really be slowly brought along into why we are advocating um for different, you know, protections when it comes to the brain and and using a sport that we all love as one of the mediums to do that.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, and multiple sports.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_04: And we look forward to working with you.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_04: So, Nicole, as we close out, um you can talk tell people how to find you.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, obviously, you know, you've you've been on a lot of podcasts, you've written a lot of articles, um, you know, I tell folks how to find you and the foundation.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_04: And uh talk talk about yourself a little bit before we go out.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the foundation is easy.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: The foundation's Lee Steinberg Foundation uh.org and the Lee Steinberg Super Bowl party if you want to learn more about it.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's the world's longest website, but it's the Lee Steinberg Super Bowl Party.com.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um the Brain Hell Summit has its own tab, and you'll note mine looks different than the others.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: The others are very party.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh mine looks a lot more academic, but that's just you know where where I am and where um most of the Brain Health Summit speakers come from.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I always want to make sure that it's inclusive of them and not just party.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so there's that.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty easy to find.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a hundred Nicole Roberts or more in the world.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: I usually use my middle initial F.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you can find me on Forbes under Nicole F.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: Roberts or social media, same way.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, pretty easy to find.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Nicole, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_04: I really we really appreciate your presence here.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_04: What an amazing conversation.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a delight.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: Getting to know you has been a delight.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, I guess we're going to be seeing more of each other, and we look forward to you coming to the summit here in a couple weeks.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, and then doing whatever we can have, help uh however we can help out as a foundation and your new endeavor, you're counter sand.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_04: We're in with both feet.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_04: I really appreciate you.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: Folks, another amazing episode of Broken Brains.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_04: Really appreciate your attention.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_04: If you loved what you what you heard here, please like us, subscribe, pass us out to everybody.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_04: Remember, please go to the website.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_04: The book has just been updated.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_04: Free book, the only book in the world on repetitive impacts, and parents become informed, make informed decisions, don't just do what everybody else does out there.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_04: We have our app on the Google and uh Apple Store, Head Smart, the only app out the repetitive impact information on it.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_04: And the you know, the summits out there coming up.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_04: And we'll have an announcement on our Army Navy uh rock and roll party during the Army Navy game that's coming up in December.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_04: We'll have all that for you pretty soon.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_04: And again, really appreciate uh your your you know your your parents and and and and paying attention to the show.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_04: We are one of the fastest growing podcasts on brain health on the internet, all because of you.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_04: So till the next time at Broken Brains, thanks you all.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_04: If you've got a child, remember that child's only got one melon.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_04: They bruise very easily, so take care of them.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: So next time at Broken Brains, we'll see you then.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_04: God bless you all.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.