Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / The Importance of Listening to Clients and Creating Repeatable Processes, with Ryan Hawley | Healthcare Series

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The Importance of Listening to Clients and Creating Repeatable Processes, with Ryan Hawley | Healthcare Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
0:07
share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
0:10
how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
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they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
0:18
the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their
0:21
experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
0:24
by how they've overcome adversity.
0:26
My name is Anthony Cotispoti, and today's guest is Ryan
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Hawley, CEO of Odin Industries, a boutique consultant, a
0:35
boutique consultancy specializing in international
0:38
workers compensation and case management.
0:41
He's a member of the Small Business Association Leadership
0:44
Council for Economic Development, which is the
0:46
nation's first small business advocacy organization that
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interacts directly with different government agencies on
0:54
behalf of small businesses. He's also a member of the Board
0:57
of Directors of Defense of Democracy, an organization that
1:01
educates the public about the value of inclusivity and the
1:05
importance of emotional and physical safety for all
1:08
individuals in public schools and libraries.
1:11
We're also going to talk about why he's been to over 120
1:15
countries. But before we get into the good
1:17
stuff, today's episode is brought to you by my company,
1:20
Add Back Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and
1:24
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1:27
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proprietary programs. Results vary for each company,
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To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at
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Add Back Benefits Agency. Now back to our guest today, the
1:49
CEO of Odin Industries. Ryan, thanks so much for making
1:52
the time to Share your story today.
1:53
No problem at all. Thanks for having me.
1:56
Yeah, so we were starting to get into this a little bit in the
1:58
the pre interview offline and and I had to I had to interrupt
2:02
and pause because we were really going far down a rabbit hole and
2:06
I wanted to make sure we left time to get into all all of this
2:09
stuff here with the audience. So take just a few moments and
2:13
explain in your own words. What does Odin Industries do?
2:18
Because you're you're in a unique.
2:19
Space we're, we're in a very unique space.
2:21
So Odin Industries considers itself to be one of the experts
2:26
within the the Foreign Voluntary and Defense Base Act insurance
2:31
markets, acting on behalf of insurance and assistance firms
2:35
providing their medical case management all over the the
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globe and and helping to settle and manage claims that are
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related to either civilian contractors working ancillary to
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the military or for multinational corporations in
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the US that utilize foreign voluntary insurance.
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So we manage medical care. We provide payment services
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globally for our clients. A lot of our clients are
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insurance companies that are paying settlements into say
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Uganda or Rwanda or things of that nature.
3:10
We'll do sanctions check to make sure that the claimant receiving
3:14
the money isn't on any lists, provide proper documentation to
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make sure that the the wires will be accepted by the banks,
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and do test wires to make sure that the bank account is going
3:29
to the correct person before they send a settlement over.
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So say the settlement's for $50,000 or something, we'll test
3:36
that bank account and confirm that with the claimant doing a
3:40
small say $1.00 test wire before they they send their money.
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So we work with a number of insurance companies and
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structured benefits companies to provide that service.
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We have a proprietary network globally of physicians in
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various specialties for medical legal opinions.
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On any given day, we could be providing medical care in India
4:04
and getting reports done in South Africa and gathering
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medical records and I don't know the the Ukraine.
4:14
So, so let me see if I understand this.
4:15
So as AUS company, I have to send my employees overseas
4:21
somewhere to work for extended periods of time, right?
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And while my employees are over there, they're going to need
4:27
medical care, right? But rather than sort of go
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through the traditional medical care system in whatever country
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that they've been placed in, they're contracting with you to
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help find medical care for them that is also somehow connected
4:46
to their health insurance back home.
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So at the point of injury we can facilitate getting them care
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globally that that's the first step is you know, when injury
4:57
occurs to get their emergency care done.
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We also do employer side workers compensation defense base Act
5:07
claims where you have a contractor that's been working
5:12
overseas, say they were working in Afghanistan as a food service
5:17
worker. They've now returned home to
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their home country, are involved in litigation with their
5:22
employer over claims of post traumatic stress and I don't
5:28
know, an ortho injury related to, you know, being near
5:31
ordinance. We will get doctors to perform
5:35
independent medical examinations, judging if those
5:39
injuries are valid, seeing if those injuries were in fact
5:43
caused by their their work, whether there's any evidence of
5:47
malingering or things of that nature.
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What a reasonable treatment plan looks like, what sort of time
5:54
frame that would be and making a determination if the person is
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ever going to get back to full function, if they're going to
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suffer from a permanent partial disability or whether they're
6:05
going to be permanently disabled where they can't return to work.
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So we only do that employer side.
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So we're we're working with the employer's insurance company or
6:14
the. So your your client is the
6:16
employer, or the employer's insurance company could be the
6:20
employer. Could be either we're just never
6:22
claim. We're never claiming side that
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all all of our resources are employer side.
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We don't work with any claimant law firms or directly with with
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any claimants that our investigation are always
6:35
employer side. So it the self insured company
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that is working overseas or it could be somebody that's working
6:45
with a major insurer like Archer, Crawford and company or
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or some of the specific risk providers that that deal in the
6:53
defense base act or for in voluntary space.
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So for somebody who's outside of the world that you're living in,
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this is a little confusing to me because you know, my insurance
7:05
I've got, I've got a network of providers that I'm allowed to go
7:10
see. And if I go outside of that
7:11
network, I'm going to pay a lot more.
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Clearly, if somebody is going overseas, they're going outside
7:17
of the sort of the traditional network of providers.
7:20
So, you know, if if I'm placed in Uganda and I need to go in
7:26
for, you know, a checkup or I've got an eye infection or I've
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got, you know, a sore throat or something.
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Are you getting involved in sort of that, you know, routine sort
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of healthcare maintenance? Or are you only getting involved
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in sort of like the bigger cases where there's like an injury or
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something like? That well, we, we do both that,
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you know, we deal with high net worth individuals that will
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contact us before going on say as a safari that will sort of
7:53
map out where they're going and map out the medical facilities
7:56
that they should use if they become ill or injured during
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their trip. If it's an injury that
8:05
accompanies managing employees somewhere, we can provide
8:08
guarantee of payment on their behalf that, you know, we're
8:10
sending this employee to the urgent care to the emergency
8:14
that we have contracted relationships with the hospitals
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that we will guarantee payment so they can send the employee to
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get that medical care. The vast majority of, of what
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we're doing is managing medical care within litigated
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situations. So the the employee has filed
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something that would be similar here within the US to workers
8:35
compensation that they've had a workplace injury.
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They've contacted an attorney and said, you know, this is all
8:41
my employer's fault. And the vast majority of what we
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do is manage care either long term to manage that disability
8:50
of the the claimant, which is a lot of what we do, managing
8:54
their doctor's appointments, finding appropriate specialists
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to help them heal and get back to work the other.
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It's like a concierge service in a way.
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The concierge for one side and then the other side is we're
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providing medical experts to give medical legal opinions for
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the employer to make informed decisions on whether they should
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settle the claim, whether they should fight it, whether they're
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responsible for this injury or whether there's some questions.
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We also do a lot of things such as fraud investigation or or
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things of that nature. And so how would a fraud
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investigation work? We partner with one of the
9:34
largest security firms in the world.
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So if we're looking at a claim where the information's not
9:41
making sense or the diagnosis isn't making sense the, the
9:45
treatment claim, we can then, you know, go with the insurers
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say we've got some concerns that there is some medical fraud
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going here. We, we can do stationary
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observation camera and a lamppost kind of thing.
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We can have an agent pro warm surveillance and follow them
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around for a few days. We can do some pretty high tech
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document research that we have tools that we can pull the
10:11
layers of APDF to see if it's been edited or or changed in
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anything that's AI believe it's called third eye, the tool they
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use for that. So we can validate IDs.
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We can validate medical records that we have a lot of tools at
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our disposal that if we don't think a claims on the up and up
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that we can investigate that pretty thoroughly after.
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Camera and a lamppost. I mean you, you guys are doing
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some James Bond type stuff, huh? The my, my partners on the
10:43
security space, there's not much.
10:45
They don't do that. They're a massive, massive
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corporation. I think 20 some odd billion a
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year in revenue that they probably have tools that James
10:57
Bond doesn't have. That's fun.
11:00
Now in the pre interview you started to mention something
11:02
about and I don't know if this is still what you do or or if
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this is kind of how you started in the space.
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But going into some of these hostile areas, some of these
11:13
unsettled areas and having to retrieve medical records, is
11:18
this part of ongoing what you do?
11:20
Sure. Basically we have to manage care
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wherever the claimant is. So the the commonality with
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defense based Act claims at least our multinational
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companies generally pull from areas that have lower wages.
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So you saw a huge uptick in Peru probably 10 years ago.
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You saw a huge uptick within Uganda.
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The Balkans has been another area that they've pulled a lot
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from your massive. When you say pull a lot from,
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what do you mean by that? Bring employees to work on these
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contracts as food service workers or construction workers
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or concrete layers that there anywhere there's a military
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presence, there's also a huge presence of contractors that are
12:09
coming in to help service these areas.
12:13
So they'll get employees from nations that are relatively low
12:17
wage compared to American workers to fill these positions.
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If they get hurt or if they have some sort of psychiatric issue
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related to being in the war zone, the company has to manage
12:32
them under the the legislation wherever they return to.
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So they, they left Afghanistan, Kosovo.
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The company until that claim is settled, needs to manage their
12:44
care. So provide medical care for them
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and do any medical legal opinions.
12:50
Literally anywhere in the globe that you have Nepal, you have
12:55
the Philippines, you have all these areas that there's a high
13:00
concentration of workers that have gone over to work.
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What we find in the space is, especially with the Defense Base
13:09
Act, is once there's an area of concentration where employees
13:13
are being pulled from, an American lawyer will go over and
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hang up a shingle and say if you've ever been hurt at work,
13:21
you know, pop by here and we'll sue your employer for you.
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So you'll see sort of an area of hiring and then within a couple
13:29
of years you'll start to see sort of a center of litigation
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coming out of that area because an American firm's gone over and
13:36
started to recruit. So we're you, sort of?
13:42
So is the, sorry to interrupt, Brian, is the legislation that
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sort of dictates what the process looks like, is this USA
13:49
legislation or is this an international?
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It's USA. It's US legislation, got it.
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That for all intents and purposes gives a foreign
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national working for AUS company similar workers compensation
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rights to that of an American worker here.
14:07
So they're. Interesting.
14:09
There's some nuances to it, but it's in layman's terms, somebody
14:14
that's not living in my world, it's close to the workers
14:16
compensation system. Here you're just doing it on an
14:22
international scale. So you're, you're having to help
14:25
that Peruvian get help, you know, while they're hurt in
14:29
Uganda, as well as continuing to get them help until the case is
14:33
closed when they move back to Peru.
14:35
We're, we're the pointy end of the sphere for the insurance and
14:38
assistance companies and the law firms managing these cases.
14:42
The insurance companies essentially are sales machines.
14:45
They want, they want to sell more insurance.
14:47
That's what they're designed to do.
14:49
The assistance company manage the care on behalf of the
14:53
insurance companies. We act as their, you know,
14:57
vendor or resource that's boots on the ground where these claims
15:02
are. And the law firms, they rely on
15:05
us to get the expert opinions, etcetera, for their ability to
15:12
litigate these cases that, you know, they're focused on the
15:15
legal aspects. They're using us as the provider
15:19
of information to help them navigate these legal cases.
15:23
So the the pointy end of the spear, the the boots on the
15:25
ground, this this means that's us.
15:29
But but what paint a little bit more of a picture?
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What is? What is the what?
15:35
What more physically are you doing there?
15:38
So. We're pointing into the spear
15:40
makes me think like there's some aggression, but.
15:43
I'm not sure if that's still the right thing.
15:45
No aggression at all. I just spent a lot of time
15:48
flying all over the world developing field agents that for
15:53
various tasks we'll look at either medical providers,
15:56
nurses, physicians or security resources that can go get us
16:02
medical records or meet a claimant at physician's office
16:08
to to help pay for their claim. That we've got probably 1000
16:13
field agents globally that we can call on a case by case basis
16:17
to help us. OK, got it.
16:20
You are the boots on the ground that that helps to cement the
16:23
picture in my head a little bit more.
16:25
And so can can you. Are there a couple of like fun
16:29
stories you can share with us? I mean, you're going to these
16:31
crazy places. You know, you're talking about
16:33
cameras and and lamp posts like some of the clandestine stuff.
16:37
I think it'd be fun to hear. As far as, you know, interesting
16:40
stories with regards to to fraud.
16:42
We were managing one claim in Africa that things just weren't
16:48
making sense, that reading the medical notes, that the
16:52
treatment didn't seem appropriate.
16:54
The injuries seemed kind of off. So we looked into it.
16:59
You know, the 1st place we would look would be to go to the
17:02
provider, get some additional medical records to review to see
17:06
if we could make what we have makes sense, if there's
17:09
something that we're missing or you know, something that we
17:11
don't have in our file. So I sent somebody to the
17:15
facility and there was no facility.
17:17
It was a field that there was no hospital.
17:21
Looking at the documents, all of the medical reports have been
17:23
faked. All of the X-ray reports have
17:25
been faked. None of it was real that it had
17:28
been. How can you tell that an X-ray
17:30
has been faked? That we didn't have physical
17:32
X-rays. We had the documents.
17:34
That it was fake because the hospital didn't exist, the
17:37
doctor didn't exist. It was an it was an empty field.
17:40
The address had no. You didn't have to look any
17:45
further once you got there. There's no facility.
17:48
The whole thing, you know, started to go through the
17:50
documents and, you know, all of the documents were typed on the
17:53
same computer that, you know, despite being named for
17:58
different physicians and things, they were all typed on the same
18:02
computer. And we were able to show, you
18:04
know, this was one person that came up with a, a story and put
18:08
a remarkable amount of work into trying to make that story valid
18:16
as far as, you know, globe trotting and all over these
18:19
countries. Prior to starting this company,
18:22
I spent most of my 20s in the in the back of an airplane doing
18:26
air ambulance transports all over the globe.
18:28
That's, you know, I would be on call for a couple weeks at a
18:32
time. During those 14 days, I might be
18:34
in five or six different countries.
18:37
That's it's. And what is air ambulance
18:40
transport work? So if somebody's got travel
18:43
insurance or their employer, if they're overseas on a vacation
18:48
or on a business trip and become ill or become injured and aren't
18:53
able to be transported on a commercial aircraft home, then
18:57
you need to hire a private jet to basically be AICU in the sky
19:03
to, to get this person home that you can rack up 10s of
19:07
thousands, if not hundreds of thousands in charges if you're
19:11
in a foreign country receiving medical care.
19:14
So it's usually financially beneficial to bring this person
19:19
back to their home country where they're being treated under that
19:22
country's insurance or if it's here in America being treated by
19:26
their Cigna or United Health or, or what have you.
19:29
So at the time the aircraft of choice for air ambulance was a
19:34
Lira 35 S flies for about four and a half, 4 3/4 hours at a
19:40
time. So to, to get overseas, I would
19:44
usually leave from Toronto, go from there to just outside of
19:49
Newfoundland, go from there to Iceland and then.
19:53
Sounds like an incredibly inefficient process.
19:55
It, it was, but it's, it allowed me to see a lot of the world in
20:01
that space. And it was a pretty interesting
20:04
way to spend your 20s, you know, my age now with kids and
20:09
responsibilities like that. I don't know that I'd want to do
20:12
it now, but prior to having children, it was it was a pretty
20:16
cool way to to spend your youth so.
20:19
And so you're classically trained as a registered nurse.
20:22
And so this is what led to this ambulance transport work.
20:26
And is this ambulance, ambulance transport work, then what led to
20:32
you eventually sort of falling into or discovering this whole
20:36
new world of international workers comp case management?
20:39
Prior to Odin Industries, I started a company called Going
20:41
Home Medical and that was strictly focused on, you know,
20:45
medical transport. At the time that I became a
20:48
manager, I think 2012, I started managing the ICU in Niagara
20:53
Falls. Very quickly realized the
20:56
hospital middle management just wasn't the hamster wheel that I
20:59
wanted to be on five days a week.
21:02
The sort of structured hours. My entire day was, you know,
21:06
this meeting to this meeting, this meeting so we could have
21:09
another meeting about having a meeting next month.
21:11
It could drive me crazy. And there was another manager
21:16
that was at Niagara that used to work for one of the transport
21:19
companies that I did. We were out, you know, having
21:22
beers and talking about the glory days of getting to see the
21:26
world on somebody else's dime and how fun it was.
21:29
And he said, well, you know, we should start a company like that
21:32
someday. How about tomorrow, you know,
21:37
registered a business. We, you know, made-up a logo,
21:39
came up with a business plan and launched.
21:42
And you know, I think you and I had the story before we got on
21:46
air that initially we had focused on the snowbird market,
21:50
focused on sort of Canadians that were down in Florida or in
21:54
Arizona and it just it wasn't a revenue model that was
21:57
sustainable. So.
22:00
A lot of competition, a lot of. Competition.
22:01
Chase yourself to the bottom. Revenue model.
22:04
It was like a competition to see who could charge less.
22:07
It just didn't make any sense. So we started service in
22:10
dangerous areas. We started servicing Western
22:12
Africa, predominantly Afghanistan and then Iraq at
22:16
that time. And how do you promote yourself?
22:19
How does somebody get to know that you're even an option for
22:21
this? We had a lot of existing
22:24
relationships with assistance firms from being on the planes
22:28
that you're, you're dealing with the case managers at that time.
22:31
So we kind of had a foot in the door to maybe not get to the
22:35
decision maker, but get to somebody that can get us to the
22:38
decision maker. And then the, you know,
22:43
servicing Afghanistan and doing a really good job of it.
22:48
Our clients became our best referral source that when other
22:52
assistance companies would meet them at conferences or something
22:55
of that nature and say, you know, we're having a lot of
22:57
problem getting these contractors out of Afghanistan
22:59
and they'd go, you know, call Ryan, he'll be able to sort you
23:03
out. So we were actually getting a
23:04
lot of referrals from clients talking to other similar
23:10
companies saying, you know, these guys do a really good job,
23:12
you should talk to them. And so you guys have the pilot,
23:16
you have the, the nurse or the, the, the medical staff that you
23:21
know is on the plane, you're leasing the plane is that.
23:24
We would do commercial transport on, you know, regular aircraft
23:28
your your Delta, American Airlines that we would provide
23:31
nurses and physicians. And then rather than get into
23:34
owning and operating jets and taking on all of that the
23:39
responsibility, we got an insurance policy that it would
23:43
allow us to act as a broker and developed proprietary network
23:47
globally of accredited providers either through NAMTA or URAMI or
23:53
camps, the three sort of big accreditation agencies within
23:56
air ambulance. And we built a network that we
23:59
could call on them, get pricing at a preferred rate, but not
24:05
have to manage the the aircraft or take on those costs that our
24:10
insurance would allow us to act as a broker and.
24:13
So what does that mean? Because you also mentioned that
24:15
you were, you know, booking people on like Delta flights.
24:18
So Delta flights would be our own.
24:20
Am I sitting? Am I sitting in a, you know, a
24:22
coach seat with my, you know, broken leg propped up?
24:25
Or generally medical transports were always done in business
24:28
class. So you would have either a nurse
24:30
or a physician in in business class you try and do routes that
24:37
have as few stops as possible. If you can get a direct flight,
24:42
you know, do the direct flight. If not, try and only get one
24:46
stop over. Some of the airlines like
24:50
Lufthansa actually have stretchers built into their
24:54
planes and sort of hidden away areas.
24:56
Other times you would be in like a regular business class seat.
25:00
The nurses or physicians would provide whatever medications
25:03
that they needed help get them in and out of the wheelchair.
25:07
We would, if they needed to be brought by ambulance airside.
25:11
We would facilitate getting those staff being allowed to go
25:15
airside, getting allowed into the various countries with work
25:19
permits, that there was a lot of logistical support that needed
25:23
to be done over and above just the the medical staff.
25:27
Got it. OK, so I, I had envisioned and I
25:30
think now incorrectly that I was on some sort of a, a cargo plane
25:34
on a, on a, on a Gurney in the back.
25:37
And it's just, you know, big wide open space.
25:39
But what you're describing is I'm well enough that I can sit
25:43
in a business class seat for the transport.
25:45
I've got a nurse there who's with me that that's able to
25:47
assist me. And then when you talk about
25:49
being a broker, you're talking about being a broker for airline
25:53
tickets. Is that right?
25:54
No, no, for the brokering, for the brokering part would be for
25:57
air ambulances. So those would be private jets
26:00
that had medical staff. OK, so we've got two different
26:03
scenarios. There's one where I'm well
26:05
enough to sit in a Delta business class seat and there's
26:08
another one where it's a dedicated type of plane and air
26:11
and OK. Exactly.
26:13
So that we would act as sort of the go between for both that if,
26:19
if they were on a commercial aircraft, we had our own staff
26:23
that we would book the the airline tickets to go get them,
26:26
sit beside them and get them there.
26:28
If they needed an air ambulance. We had providers all over the
26:31
world that we could get competitive quotes from, say,
26:34
three or four different providers to do that transport
26:37
on our behalf. Got it.
26:40
And you mentioned that a lot of your clients came from word of
26:43
mouth, which says a lot about the quality of your service,
26:46
right? What, what is it that you guys
26:49
are doing differently than the providers that other people are
26:52
really struggling and moving from to you guys?
26:56
I think we look for the difficult stuff that where we
27:02
where we sort of differentiate ourselves from the competition
27:08
is we actively look to solve hard problems that you know,
27:12
getting somebody out of South Florida is not that complicated
27:16
a thing. Getting reliable resources in
27:20
Uganda and developing, you know, relationships with, with medical
27:26
facilities in generally under service areas is not the easiest
27:30
thing to do. And also the other thing that we
27:35
did that seems very simple, but a lot of our competition I guess
27:40
doesn't do is we listen to our clients that that's where the
27:44
the payment services came in. That you you had these major
27:48
issues of insurance companies in good faith trying to pay claims
27:54
in two areas. And you know, we're having
27:59
people getting robbed for their settlement funds.
28:03
You know, somebody had found out that they were getting settled
28:05
with the insurance company and the bank account that the the
28:10
claimant settlement was going to, was going to somebody that
28:15
was robbing them, that it was a problem that they wanted to
28:21
solve. And it was like, OK, well, a
28:24
test wire should be able to solve that.
28:27
So you incur the cost for a wire and you send a dollar or two
28:32
dollars in a transaction and then follow up with the
28:35
claimant. Did you get that money?
28:38
Yes, we got that money. OK.
28:40
So before you send the $15,000 check we've done past run, we've
28:45
also made sure that there's not any sanctions issues, there's
28:48
not any trouble, which helps mitigate risk for the insurance
28:52
companies that has become, I don't know, we're probably doing
28:56
10 to 15 a day, call it, I don't know, 20,000 a month in gross
29:04
revenue to solve a problem that was quite easy like we're we
29:10
had. Send it to and we've all done
29:12
this when connecting to a new bank account or new service.
29:15
They send a small test transaction and they ask you to
29:18
verify the amount so that they can.
29:21
Exactly. We, we took something that's
29:22
done at a, a grand scale with opening a PayPal account or
29:27
something of that nature, made it specific for payment of
29:31
insurance claims and solved what was a, a fairly major problem
29:35
for people that are operating in, you know, the Balkans are
29:40
operating in Nepal. Of just verifying that before we
29:44
send $150,000 medical settlement, that it's going to
29:48
the right person and that we're not breaking any international
29:51
banking laws by sending that help.
29:54
The sanctions piece would be if somebody is on a list of
29:58
criminals or we're not allowed to send money to North Koreans
30:03
or Iranians or something like. That exactly.
30:05
So we, we use a software that goes, I think 200 databases.
30:10
So it covers American, Canadian, Australian, British law that we
30:15
can identify if there's issues that could get our insurance
30:21
companies into trouble that some of the clients we're working for
30:24
are not American based companies are British based companies.
30:27
So, you know, we want to check against whatever database to
30:33
make sure they're not getting in trouble with who their
30:35
government says you can't do business with that we're acting
30:39
as a risk mitigator for the insurance company so they can
30:43
operate knowing that, you know, they're not breaking any rules.
30:47
And international banking, it can be fairly complicated.
30:52
You know, the, the people that are on sanctions that we all
30:55
know their name. That's pretty simple.
30:57
You know, don't wire Vladimir Putin, but say the say the
31:03
Balkans, for example. You know, you had a pretty nasty
31:06
war in the Balkans that there was a lot of war crimes trials
31:11
against. Those are names you might not
31:13
recognize that you're going to want to check and make sure that
31:17
you're not going to get a slap on the wrist if you know the
31:21
federal government teachers sending them money.
31:24
Did you have to get some sort of special security clearance to
31:26
get access to these databases? We have security clearances, but
31:31
not for that specifically. It's a proprietary software that
31:36
checks existing databases for that.
31:40
Then we came up with a step by step sort of reproducible
31:45
McDonald's model of what documentation a claimant would
31:49
need to take to their bank to make sure a wire is going to go
31:52
through that. Wires are funny things with
31:55
banks that they're very highly regulated.
31:59
Banks will hold money if it's unclear what that wire's for.
32:03
So we came up with, you know, descriptor vernacular that is
32:08
acceptable to the banks. We do a letter for each of the
32:12
claims that we send out saying what the money's for, who's it
32:15
coming from. This is its purpose.
32:17
It can be presented at the banks and then when we've maintained a
32:22
database of SWIFT codes all across the world that if we
32:26
don't have full banking information that we can, you
32:31
know, probably figure it out on the law firms behalf of, OK,
32:34
they do business with this bank. This is their standard.
32:38
You know, this is the number that we're going to get solves a
32:41
lot of problems for the law firms and the insurance
32:43
companies. And it is something that I can
32:46
take to my staff with, you know, the McDonald's manual of every
32:51
time do it like this, documents it like this, and we're not
32:56
going to ever run into problems. It's a lot of attention to
33:00
detail in building these repeatable and reliable
33:05
processes. Absolutely.
33:06
You guys run into a new problem, you step back and you say OK,
33:12
this is a hard problem. What can we do to solve it?
33:15
What is the value add that we can provide for the customer
33:18
here to make their life easier? And and then you create the
33:23
process and then you like you call it the McDonald's manual.
33:27
It's just the standard operating procedure that gets repeated
33:29
time and time again. That's it.
33:32
So Ryan, who is your ideal client?
33:37
Who who listening to this might want to hire you?
33:40
Our ideal clients are law firms that are dealing in
33:44
international employment spaces that law firms for independent
33:50
medical examinations or directing care, I would say are
33:54
about half of our revenue. Case management firms or
33:59
assistance firms that deal in these type of cases are another
34:04
great client for us. And then any smaller insurance
34:09
that are dealing in sort of unique risk that we are fairly
34:16
rapidly expanding our domestic workers compensation nurse case
34:20
management for managing workers compensation here that you know,
34:25
that that's in probably our biggest focused area within this
34:30
space. And then the other client that
34:33
we spend a lot of time trying to establish relationships is the
34:38
government that there's a lot of occupational health, workers
34:41
compensation stuff related to federal contracts.
34:46
That's another area of growth that we spent a significant
34:49
amount of time sort of tailoring Odin services around that.
34:55
Now I'm curious why the decision to focus on domestic workers
34:59
comp case management? You guys are the ones that do
35:02
the hard stuff is, do you find that there's sort of a race to
35:07
the bottom in pricing in the domestic case management?
35:10
No. Domestic case management in a
35:12
number of markets is regulated at what it's compensated at.
35:17
And it's sort of an inverse of say a Medicaid that if you look
35:22
at the the California market that all of the injuries that
35:27
occur within California need an impairment rating.
35:31
That impairment rating is adjusted every say five or six
35:34
years of what the cost of that is.
35:37
And it's always adjusted up that basically the physicians that
35:40
are doing that will come to an agreement of what a reasonable
35:45
raises. It's reproducible in the sense
35:52
that they're enshrined in the California Constitution that
35:55
this needs to occur. It's not an area that there's
36:00
massive, massive competition. There's competition for sure,
36:03
but it, it there's 10s of companies, not hundreds of
36:07
companies that are are doing this.
36:11
It's. It's accessible to you.
36:13
It's also an area that there's a barrier of entry.
36:15
You need to understand how these systems work.
36:19
Joe Blow off the street can't start a company doing what we're
36:23
doing with our expertise that that sort of barrier to entry is
36:29
attractive to us as reason for the focus for it.
36:34
We're we're looking to scale the business probably to the point
36:39
that, you know, the 10 years we would be looking to be OK.
36:46
What private equity needs to, you know, do an acquisition,
36:50
you're going to want an 8 to 10 million evaluation minimum for
36:55
it to be worth their time. The the small niche that we I'm
37:00
very, very good at, it's going to be very, very difficult for
37:03
us to get to that multiple without including, you know
37:07
other streams of revenue such as the domestic.
37:11
That makes sense. And how many folks do you
37:13
currently employ? So there's six of us currently
37:16
that are within sort of, you know, W2 status and then it
37:22
would be 900 to 1000 field agents that act as contractors
37:26
on a case by case basis. So our, our networks very broad,
37:32
our actual, you know, tangible employees.
37:35
It's a very small group of us. All are within the medical
37:39
space. All of us have some letters at
37:42
the end of our name. All of us have experience
37:45
within, you know, workers compensation domestically or
37:49
internationally. And we meet at least once a
37:53
week, sometimes twice a week, looking at how we can do things
37:58
better, that we keep regular communication with our clients.
38:01
You know, are we meeting your expectations?
38:04
If not, you know, where do we need to improve?
38:07
And if it's a new market or a new area, we spend a lot of time
38:11
making sure that the resources we're using, there are good
38:15
resources that I've never found e-mail vetting or things of that
38:20
nature to be particularly effective in this space.
38:23
A lot of the time, if you're entering a new market, it means
38:25
getting on an airplane and seeing who your vendors on the
38:29
ground are going to be, seeing their offices and knowing that
38:34
they're going to be able to do what you're telling their
38:37
clients they're going to do for. You.
38:40
Yeah, I can. I get the sense of a real
38:42
dedication to the process of continuous improvement.
38:46
Absolutely. Ryan, let's shift gears for a
38:48
second because I I'm kind of curious to hear more about your
38:51
involvement with the Small Business Association Leadership
38:55
Council for Economic Development.
38:58
Sure. First explain what that is, and
39:01
then explain why you got involved.
39:03
With it so the NSBA is the oldest advocacy group in the
39:08
nation for small businesses that they have a a number of
39:13
different sort of levels that they interact with government,
39:20
be it at a local all the way up to a a federal level.
39:25
The the leadership councils, there's one dedicated to health
39:30
policy, there's one dedicated to economic development.
39:35
They will pick issues that benefit small businesses and act
39:44
in both a lobbying capacity to help make it more of an even
39:49
playing field for small businesses compared to larger
39:52
counterparts. They have a lobbyist on staff.
39:55
They will also look at the existing policies and help
39:59
challenge them that the Corporate Transparency Act.
40:05
It is the the latest thing that they actually have sued the
40:09
federal government and had it declared as unconstitutional.
40:14
The government's in the process of appealing that right now, but
40:18
members of the NSBNSNSBA right now are excluded from having to
40:28
participate in that that through the appeals process, just
40:32
members of our group are able to use.
40:37
What is the Corporate Transparency Act?
40:39
What is it trying? To any business, whether you
40:42
know you've got a restaurant where you're pouring coffee or
40:47
anything that there's, I believe it's 108 page document that
40:52
you're going to need to read of what information you're going to
40:55
need to provide to the federal government.
40:57
But I believe July 1st of this year to ensure that you're
41:01
compliant, it's cumbersome, it's very Big Brother and it's sort
41:08
of right up. And it doesn't do anything to
41:12
prevent money laundering at a small business level.
41:16
It just provides a barrier to entry from small businesses to
41:21
be able to conduct business without sort of federal
41:25
government's involvement. That it's, it's a, a legislation
41:31
that was not well crafted and certainly wasn't crafted with
41:34
the interests of most Americans that the, the organization
41:40
itself. You know that you can go to the
41:42
NSVA dot biz and go to their issues tab and it will show you
41:48
know what the various issues that we're fighting for and
41:51
advocating for are on any given year that that the leadership
41:57
council level, those issues are voted on and addressed of what
42:01
we're going to focus our efforts on from an advocacy standpoint.
42:06
September 18th and 19th, we will be doing a congressional
42:11
breakfast and then each of the people that are attending will
42:15
be meeting with their congressman and their respective
42:18
senators over whichever issues they they want to bring forward.
42:24
So I'll be meeting with Marco Rubio and Rick Scott at the
42:28
Senate level and then I have a meeting with Jared Markowitz.
42:32
And then I believe on the 19th we'll be touring the White House
42:36
and going to the Small Business Council that will be held in the
42:42
halls of Congress. So we'll be, we'll be delegates
42:45
at that, at that meeting. What compelled you to want to
42:49
get involved with this? I think as a small business
42:55
owner, America's not set up for us to succeed compared to our
43:03
monolithic huge corporation counterparts that, you know, the
43:07
vast majority of the middle class comes from small business.
43:12
That I want an organization's going to help even that playing
43:16
field and help provide opportunities for small
43:19
businesses to become bigger companies.
43:22
That the, the easiest way to impact change is to help direct
43:27
that change and to have an organization that's already
43:31
within the halls of Congress, that already has existing
43:34
relationships to, to help lobby on small businesses behalf.
43:38
I, I couldn't think of a, you know, better organization to put
43:42
my money towards and my time towards to, you know, help do
43:46
something that's very dear to my heart.
43:49
What are some of the other things that you haven't already
43:52
mentioned that are maybe in the works that you're particularly
43:55
excited about? Within the NSBA, working with a
43:59
number of people within the leadership Council right now to
44:03
put forward a package for making it easier for small businesses
44:07
to do business with the federal government.
44:10
That, you know, streamlining that process for small
44:15
businesses to be able to interact and be competitive on
44:19
federal contracts compared to, you know, huge organizations
44:24
that a lot of the time it almost feels like the proposals are
44:27
written for. So we're, we're coming together
44:30
with proposals to help the existing carve out process for
44:36
small businesses be better. And we're, we're getting decent
44:40
feedback from the government. We've got an engaged group
44:43
within an SBA that all have a history of dealing with the
44:48
government that talk collectively about what problems
44:53
that we faced, what we think would be a better solution and
44:57
coming up with what I think is going to be a pretty good
44:59
document to be able to present that.
45:02
That particularly is what I'm going to be meeting with with my
45:06
Florida based lawmakers. Is that specifically of what,
45:11
you know, lawmakers that are meant to be working on our
45:13
behalf? This is something from a small
45:16
business's owner perspective that you know we would like you
45:19
to be the champion of. Tell me about your involvement
45:24
with the defense of democracy. So Defense of Democracy IS5O1C3
45:30
based in New York that sort of address the growing hostilities
45:36
within public schools and libraries that there's a lot of
45:40
identity politics, book bans, things of that nature.
45:44
That just didn't sit well with me.
45:46
I'm a father of three small kids.
45:48
That's, you know, I've got a nine year old and two six year
45:50
old boys. And if I'm not happy with
45:56
something that's going on in their school, I want to be the
45:59
first to, I guess, protest against that and the the the 1st
46:05
to sort of stand in the front line and go, what's going on?
46:08
It's not right and my child's education shouldn't be your
46:13
political platform that's looked into sort of organizations that
46:20
were combating that and found defense of democracy that
46:25
there's a lot of organizations that do a lot of things
46:28
politically. All they focus on is making
46:31
public schools and libraries inclusive for everyone and
46:36
looking at the education system and, you know, going that school
46:41
board meeting shouldn't be battlegrounds that this
46:43
shouldn't be where we're we're fighting our culture wars and
46:49
went from being a member and going to the Tuesday night
46:51
meeting and learning about what the organization did.
46:55
And, you know, they found out about my business background and
46:59
when, you know, would you consider being on our board?
47:01
And it went from, you know, Tuesday night meeting to looking
47:06
at financial reports and understanding how they could
47:09
better fundraise, you know, how to allocate their money and help
47:13
direct what they're going to do from organizational policy
47:18
perspective to to focus their efforts and make sure that it's
47:21
effective. So it's, I believe the first of
47:29
the first of three three-year terms that I could maximum serve
47:34
within the, the bylaws of the board.
47:39
But we've got a very interesting group.
47:44
There's, there's lawyers, there's business people, there's
47:47
school teachers. It's we, we've got a, a wide
47:51
variety of opinions within the board.
47:54
And I think we've got a, a pretty good structure to have
47:57
robust discussions about what the organization can do, how we
48:03
should do it. And, you know, some, some
48:05
differing opinions on what our best courses of action for which
48:10
is good. You know, if it was a monolithic
48:12
and everybody agreed all of the time, I don't think that's a
48:16
very effective board that, you know, that's just a rubber stamp
48:19
for, for something when we we have a board that we can have
48:22
robust discussions and understand different
48:25
perspectives within the organization.
48:27
And I think it's great. So what would be the ideal
48:31
desired outcome? Is it some new legislation that
48:34
gets passed? Is it some legislation that gets
48:37
rolled back? Is it something else entirely?
48:40
Right now, the fight's mostly at a local level, so, you know, at
48:45
a federal level. And, you know, I would love to
48:49
see the Title 9 protections standardized.
48:53
I don't know that that's realistic in our current
48:56
political climate, that it's the, the things you're seeing of
49:03
the the fights and the nastiness within school board meetings is
49:07
truly astounding to me that, you know, school board meetings
49:10
should not be newsworthy events. And across the country you're
49:20
seeing some nasty things. You're frankly seeing some nasty
49:25
things from all political spectrums that, you know, I, I
49:28
would like to see, you know, at a federal level that every
49:35
American of whatever color, race, creed, sexual orientation,
49:42
that everyone is treated with the same human rights and that
49:46
we stop villainizing any group within America and.
49:51
So how do you think you can affect that sort of change even
49:54
at a local level? You said that's sort of what the
49:56
focus is now. So we're we're looking at the
49:59
where we could be most effective.
50:01
And I think, you know, one of the ways we can be most
50:04
effective is to help, you know, provide people with information
50:10
on, you know, what these policies are being crafted from,
50:15
you know, what sort of the tactics are that there.
50:19
They have information that if they want to consider running
50:22
for a school board themselves, that, you know, they, they can
50:26
understand from a messaging standpoint, from an
50:29
informational standpoint, you know, what sort of the
50:33
alternative to the, the current to the current situation is.
50:38
We're also looking at getting a 5O14C3 developed that would, you
50:45
know, we would actually be able to put money behind candidates
50:48
or, or things of that nature. Then the five O 1C3 it's non
50:53
partisan in its nature that the doors are open to anybody that
50:58
wants to have the the conversation and it's, you know,
51:02
under the guise of a non profit. By its nature, it has to be non
51:07
partisan with the with the sort of lobbying group.
51:12
We can be a little more directed in our political action to, to
51:17
deal with specific things. You know, we, we do a lot of
51:22
fundraising efforts that they do something called a readout,
51:26
which is a banned book Reading Festival.
51:30
We just finished a Film Festival.
51:34
I guess it was about a month now that we showed a film called
51:39
1946. The mistranslation, the shape,
51:41
the culture that sort of looked at the the Nexus between the
51:46
word homosexual in the Bible when it first appeared out of
51:51
any of the translations, and the sort of fallout after that.
51:54
Prior to the movie I had no idea, but its first appearance
51:58
in the Bible in any language was in 1946.
52:02
It was trans. Interesting.
52:04
It was a fascinating documentary.
52:06
You know, I got to learn something.
52:08
It's not a community that I'm part of, but it, it, it's a
52:12
community that's had a lot of, we'll say nastiness thrown at it
52:18
in the current, current climate, especially within school boards.
52:23
And it's, it was a, it was a movie that made you made you
52:29
think. I don't know that it provided
52:30
any particular answers, but it would provide hours and hours
52:34
of, you know, questions and discussions for people to
52:37
explore their own beliefs and, you know, misconceptions of, you
52:43
know, how religion relates to us from educational capacity or
52:48
from, you know, it was, it was a very cool, you know, fundraiser
52:56
for us that Odin was one of the, the corporate sponsors for that.
53:03
That's, you know, we did some press releases for it and like
53:08
anything I'm involved with, you know, defense of democracy, I
53:10
kind of jumped in with both feet on doing everything I can to
53:14
help the organization. Little sidebar, where does the
53:18
name Odin Industries come from? My son's middle.
53:20
He's Odin. OK.
53:24
And why did you name him Odin? Why is his middle name Odin?
53:26
Just the name that you liked. Yeah, the sort of, you know, tie
53:30
in with Norse, Norse mythology, you know, Thor's dad, that
53:35
Thor's dad. My daughter's name is Brooklyn.
53:38
NY was kind of my happy place that when I needed to get away
53:43
from life in Toronto, I would go hang out with friends in
53:46
Brooklyn. So I'm my first child was named
53:50
Brooklyn sort of after that. And my son's first name is
53:54
Marcus, but his middle name is Odin.
53:58
My wife chose Marcus and I got to pick the middle name on that
54:02
child and it was Odin and the the business.
54:06
It's corn, so. That's cool.
54:08
And so Odin Industries has got some good momentum going now.
54:11
You guys have some good sort of mid to long term plans in terms
54:15
of growth. I'm gonna guess though, if
54:17
you're like every other business owner I've ever met that things
54:20
weren't always smooth along the way.
54:22
How about maybe exploring a particular challenge that you
54:26
had to overcome along this path? Maybe it was professional or
54:30
personal. Sure.
54:32
So it was sort of born out of a challenge.
54:34
I think I had said that, you know, I had left the the
54:38
previous company that I had founded in the middle of the
54:40
pandemic where, you know, a huge portion of the country was
54:44
locked in their house or unemployed or in cars, in food
54:49
bank lines, waiting to get food. And that's why I decided to quit
54:52
my job. And, you know, initially we had,
54:58
you know, gone into a space to help some of these businesses
55:01
that were struggling within the pandemic and helping them change
55:05
their sales. A lot of my expertise was around
55:12
what Odin does now. And at the time for non compete
55:17
reasons, I couldn't do that. So it was sort of initially a
55:22
struggle to understand what it is that Odin actually was going
55:25
to do. And, you know, navigating that
55:31
took some time, finding, finding Odin's space in the world took
55:37
some time to to build that. And it's, you know, it initially
55:46
had a focus of after the pandemic sort of opened up,
55:50
wasn't sustainable. And, you know, as I said, kind
55:55
of got pulled into this mafia world of, you know, that they
55:59
wouldn't let me out of the international workers comp that
56:02
my phone's ringing and my phone's ringing going, you know,
56:05
can you help us in this area? Or, you know, that doctor that
56:09
you had in Nepal, can you get us in contact with them or, you
56:15
know, things of that nature and sort of getting pulled back into
56:19
that world and having to look at lessons that were learned with
56:24
the previous company, where to focus our efforts, where the the
56:28
easiest path to scaling revenue was, you know, what geographic
56:35
locations to, to focus the, the efforts on and to, to build a
56:41
system that that was meeting the needs of of our clients from
56:46
four or five years prior. That might not be their needs.
56:48
Now that you know, though, the world has changed in sort of
56:53
grand terms in the world has changed within this business
56:57
that we've left Afghanistan. So, you know, there's new areas
57:01
that you're seeing some claims in, but a lot of these claims
57:03
are legacy claims that there was a lot of questions about the
57:09
validity of claims. Hence establishing the
57:11
relationship with the security company that, you know, medical
57:15
management wasn't the primary need in some of these cases.
57:19
Some of these cases, it was an investigation of, you know,
57:22
whether these claims were legitimate.
57:24
It's a skill set that I possessed.
57:26
So I need to go out and find a partner that could help us in
57:30
those regards and a partner that we could help them service their
57:36
clients and and we could help them in areas that they're not
57:42
experts in. That security is a very sort of
57:45
pinpoint group of knowledge and medical sort of a very pinpoint
57:50
group of knowledge that there's a lot of crossover in those
57:53
areas, but there's not much crossover of staff.
57:58
Security companies for the most part are not security medical
58:02
companies and vice versa. We, we were fortunate that I had
58:07
relationships with this, you know, large firm that over the
58:11
past four years have we're, we're now tied to several
58:16
different business offerings together.
58:19
That there's this sort of mutual symbiosis that we can do very
58:24
specific things for them that they can now go out to their
58:27
client with their large sales staff and say we can do AB and C
58:32
that we couldn't do before. And we can go from our side and
58:36
offer security services that we wouldn't have had any access to
58:40
prior. So you left a, a, a difficult
58:46
job in the midst of the pandemic.
58:48
You're going to go start your own company.
58:50
You had sort of one idea on what this new company was going to
58:54
do, the services it was going to provide.
58:57
And you were finding this isn't really feels like we're swimming
59:00
upstream. This is not going as well as we
59:03
we thought it would. Initially we had some, some very
59:07
good uptake that if there's anything I can do, well, let's
59:10
sell. And, you know, we came out with
59:13
a pitch to, to help these businesses that were struggling
59:17
through the pandemic. You know, then things started to
59:20
open up and they started to go back to their conventional ways
59:23
of doing business or they were struggling so much they didn't
59:28
have the money to pay for someone that, you know, it was
59:31
an idea that had a market. A lot of that market didn't have
59:35
the funds to pay for it. That there was very few business
59:39
owners that we would talk to that weren't interested there.
59:42
There were lots that were very, very interested in it, but they
59:45
were struggling to, you know, pay the rent on their offices or
59:49
pay the mortgages on their house.
59:52
That finding the money to pay for a consultant to, to help
59:55
this situation would have made their financial situations
59:59
worse. But it, it was a difficult, it
1:00:02
was a difficult time. So I don't know that there there
1:00:04
wasn't a market. There certainly was, but we
1:00:08
were. The timing was off.
1:00:11
The timing was off. Giving, giving everything that
1:00:13
was happening. Yeah, we were small business and
1:00:17
small business got hurt the worst.
1:00:20
And so how long was this sort of murky, unknown period for you
1:00:26
until you finally, sort of, as I'm hearing it anyways, you
1:00:30
listen to what the universe was telling you.
1:00:32
And it's like, hey, you know what your specialty is already
1:00:35
because everybody keeps calling you from your previous life.
1:00:40
And you made the Godfather reference.
1:00:42
Every time I try to get out, they pull me back in.
1:00:45
What? What was that sort of
1:00:46
transition? Period, like I would say 12 to
1:00:50
18 months, you know, we, we tried to fit the square peg into
1:00:55
the round hole for about 12 months, had some, some contracts
1:01:00
that were keeping the lights on, but didn't really see a path to
1:01:03
scalability that, you know, we were doing well enough to earn a
1:01:08
living from it. But you know, there, there
1:01:10
wasn't really a way for us to look at it and, and to, to scale
1:01:16
it 12 to 18 months. It went, you know, if I go back
1:01:20
to my old life of solving this one very specific problem,
1:01:26
there's a clear path to scalability that, you know, we
1:01:31
can look at that we had a business plan that we could
1:01:35
operate personnel and say five or six different countries on a
1:01:40
single day. We, we charge a market rate
1:01:45
that's we're, we're well compensated for what we do.
1:01:49
And selling time for money is a, a hard exchange unless you're
1:01:53
selling somebody else's time for money.
1:01:56
So if we have our, our field agents, you know, four or five
1:01:59
people working on the same day that are earning these hourly
1:02:03
rates, that's something that, you know, exponentially we can
1:02:06
continue to grow. We're also a business that
1:02:09
doesn't have a lot of overhead expenses that a lot of what we
1:02:14
do is based on knowledge and emails and reviewing of medical
1:02:21
records and using our, our medical knowledge.
1:02:26
There's no real heavy equipment. There's no crazy apps or
1:02:29
anything that that we need. We just have to utilize the
1:02:32
specific knowledge that we have so we can keep our, our overhead
1:02:36
costs quite low. It also, you know, allows us to
1:02:42
look at what I think is probably the biggest financial
1:02:45
opportunity for people right now is the amount of boomers that
1:02:49
are retiring with perfectly functioning businesses that for
1:02:54
whatever reason, you know, they don't have kids to pass it off
1:02:58
to. But for whatever reason, you can
1:03:01
look at the various business listing sites and find extremely
1:03:05
profitable businesses within your niche that for whatever
1:03:09
reason haven't sold. And Small Business
1:03:12
Administration loans, you only need 10% down that if you're
1:03:18
looking to expand the business and you find whatever niche
1:03:21
you're very good at, search it. You can find a business doing 23
1:03:25
million in revenue a year and you know, say it's at a million
1:03:31
for a purchase price, you can come up with $100,000.
1:03:35
You can bolt on, you know, another 3 million in revenue to
1:03:38
your business. And there's more businesses for
1:03:42
sale now than there are buyers. And the, the smaller, you know,
1:03:48
3 to 500,000 a year generating, you know, a bit of businesses,
1:03:54
they're too small for private equity, you know, $500,000 to,
1:03:59
to bolt on to a business owner. That's, that's a lot of free
1:04:03
cash, but it's not big enough for private equity to be
1:04:05
interested in. So you, you have these
1:04:08
businesses that are throwing three to 600,000 a year in
1:04:12
profit off that. There's not really a market that
1:04:16
there, there's not really people that are out buying them unless
1:04:19
it's, you know, somebody like myself to go out, go through the
1:04:25
due diligence of looking at their financials and go, I, I
1:04:27
see how you fit. And we spend probably three to
1:04:32
four hours a week looking at businesses that we can do as
1:04:35
Bulldogs. Very interesting smart path to
1:04:40
choose. Ryan.
1:04:42
Before we wrap up today, I want to make sure that everybody
1:04:44
knows the best way to get in touch with you.
1:04:47
So our business website is odinindustriesllc.com.
1:04:53
That's anybody personally can you know, reach out to me at
1:04:56
ryan@odinindustriesllc.com that that will get directly, directly
1:05:03
to me. And you can find us on the usual
1:05:06
socials, the, you know, Instagram, Facebook things as
1:05:09
Odin Industries look forward to to talking to anybody that's
1:05:15
seeing the show today and would be interested in our services.
1:05:19
That's terrific, Ryan. I want to be the first one to
1:05:21
thank you for spending the time to Share your story with
1:05:24
everyone today. Thank you so much for having me,
1:05:25
I appreciate it. Folks, that's a wrap on another
1:05:29
episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
1:05:32
Thanks for learning with us today.