Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BREAKING: CHILD PORN SUSPECT AMBUSHES, KILLS 2 AGENTS

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BREAKING: CHILD PORN SUSPECT AMBUSHES, KILLS 2 AGENTS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, two agents dead in an
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: early morning raid trying to affect a search want in
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the Sunrise area population about eighty five thousand. Why because
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the alleged purp was a child pornographer. And now these
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: two FBI agents Often and Schwarzenberger are dead, leaving behind
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: spouses and children to wonder why my mom? Why my dead?
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, Agent Sharp Personal five patients
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: right now, two patients, five patients at this time. Right now,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I have one officer shot in la and Ralph the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Brown Gerald of one time shot to the SHOULDERBI with
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  Speaker 1: me an all star panel to try to make sense
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: of a nonsensical situation. To cold to board Hotch Globe
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney joining me out of Houston. Former prosecutor,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Gardier, a Board certified clinical psychologist, Professor Behavioral
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Medicine TURO, author of Causes of Autism on Amazon. Jeff Cortesi,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: former FBI special agent at Jeff Cortesi dot com joining
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: me from the Bay Area, California. Doctor Tim Gallagher, the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: medical examiner for the State of Florida at pathcaremad dot com.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Glenn Pounder CEO Child Rescue Coalition and special guests joining me.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Steve Harrigan, Fox News correspondent there in Miami. Steve first
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  Speaker 1: to you when we hear about agents gunned down in
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  Speaker 1: the line of duty, shot dead. All they were trying
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: to do was effect a search warrant on an alleged
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  Speaker 1: child pornographer. What went wrong? That's what the investigation hopes
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: to figure out, because certainly things did go tragically wrong
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: yesterday just after six am in the dark, when shots
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  Speaker 1: rang out. I'm out in front of those apartments. Now
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  Speaker 1: it looks like an upscale gated community. There are orange
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: cones up and law enforcement helicopters in the sky still,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: but traffic is moving. Apparently, according to the Miami Herald,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: citing unnamed law enforcement sources, the gunman inside the perpetrator
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: opened fire with an assault rifle before the task force
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: could even reach the door. Fired through a closed door,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: monitoring their approach on a doorbell camera. So you look
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: at the door, there's all large bullet holes coming out
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  Speaker 1: from an assault rifle. So two of two agents dead,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: three wounded. Two of those wounded multiple gunshot wounds. They
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: are both in stable condition in the hospital. The third
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: wounded agent treated on the scene, but certainly agents calling
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: this a dark day in the history, one of the
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  Speaker 1: deadliest for the FBI, Nancy, one of the worst shootings
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: in that area in thirty five years, when agent Ben
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Grogan and Jerry Dove were both shot down in a
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: gun battle with armed robbers. Once again, a bloody crime
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: scene when agents are gunned down in the line of duty. Now,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: this is how it works, correct me if I'm wrong,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Glenn Pounder. Glenn joining me from Chief
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Operating Officer Child Rescue Coalition. What happens is there are
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: agents poised on the dark Web at all times when
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: they see the trading of child porn, children molested and
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  Speaker 1: treated like animals on video, and photograph the trade like
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  Speaker 1: baseball cards amongst pedophiles. They can look at the Internet
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  Speaker 1: provider and actually find exactly where your location is, and
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: that I believe it's what led them to this apartment
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  Speaker 1: they're in Sunrise. What about it, Glenn, Yeah, thank you, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: And I think this is going to be very uncomfortable
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: for your listeners, but it needs to be said that
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  Speaker 1: what we're talking about here is not child pornography. It's
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the rape, the sometimes violent rape of children, sometimes very
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: young children. And I think sometimes that gets lost when
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: these news stories are put out because you know, some
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: some people might have in mind, well, you know, was
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: this somebody dressed up as a fifteen year old and
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: posing in a video. That's not what we're dealing with here.
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  Speaker 1: We're dealing with the rape of children, sometimes as young
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  Speaker 1: as infants, and obviously sometimes that rape is sometimes violent,
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  Speaker 1: and the videos of that horrific abuse being traded both
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  Speaker 1: on the deep web what we call the deep web
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  Speaker 1: and the dog web, and organizations like ours are able
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  Speaker 1: to help law enforcement find the information they need the
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: serb legal process in a case like this, and that
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  Speaker 1: is exactly Glenn Pounder or how Dan Alfin and Laura
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Schwarzenberger were shot down dead. I'm very curious back to you,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Steve rig and Fox News joining me from Miami. There
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  Speaker 1: on the scene at the apartments. Whenever agents go in
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: to make an arrest or a search, I assume that
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: they were wearing vests. It's my belief that the lay
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  Speaker 1: in weight that he was alerted to their arrival by
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  Speaker 1: his ring door. He didn't wait for them to knock
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: at the door. He ambushed them as they were walking
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  Speaker 1: up to the door getting to the door by shooting
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  Speaker 1: through the door. Huge holes in the door that indicate
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: an assault weapon was used. Explain what you know, Steve Harrigan.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Right now, it's local media in Florida. The Miami Herald
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: and other newspapers, citing unnamed law enforcement sources, said that
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: is exactly what happened. This perpetrator monitored the approach of
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the Child Pornography Task Force through a ring doorbell camera
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  Speaker 1: and then opened fire before they even got to the door.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Right now, they are saying that this operation giving a
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: search warrant was meticulously planned. But I think questions are
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: gonna be asked because this turned out so badly. Why
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  Speaker 1: was a squat team or a tactical team not involved.
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  Speaker 1: Why were there not efforts made to take this perpetrator
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  Speaker 1: outside of his home. This is, of course, one of
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the deadliest operations possible. When you are going into a house,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: when you are approaching, how you don't know what's inside.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Two agents now lost their lives because of that. Jeff Cortesi,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: former FBI special agent a Jeff Cortesi dot com. You're
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: hearing what our Fox correspondent Steve Hereagan is saying, I
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: imagine having done arrests in search, warrants, subpoena deliveries. Myself,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I always picked the early morning hours because I know
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: that perhaps dopers other ne'er do wells are asleep when
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the rest of us are up, awake and working. They're
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: up all night and sleep all day. So typically an
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: early morning raid works the best. That's why we see
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: it happened so often. What if anything went wrong, well,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I think what is I mean, you're hear here on
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  Speaker 1: the head Obviously, you know, having been with the FBI
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: for a lot of years and part of the SWAT teams,
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  Speaker 1: I was engaged in a lot of these early morning engagements.
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  Speaker 1: And I think part of the calculation is the fact
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  Speaker 1: that these child pornography and child exploitation cases, you know, historic,
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  Speaker 1: we were always some of the most unpredictable, some of
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  Speaker 1: the most dangerous to serve um. Yesterday was no exception,
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  Speaker 1: And you know, I think a lot of it potentially
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  Speaker 1: is rooted in the fact that, you know, what we're
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  Speaker 1: dealing with is somebody who is presumably living a double life.
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  Speaker 1: This is not somebody who is likely and outward and
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  Speaker 1: open criminal. Um and and in fact, the activity that
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: he's engaged in, the criminal activity's allegedly engaged in, is
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  Speaker 1: the kind of activity that the most heinous and most
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  Speaker 1: violent of criminals consider a borrent. So you know, the
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  Speaker 1: unmasking of this, this hidden side, the unmasking of this
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  Speaker 1: criminal activity is not uncommon for law enforcement to take
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: very seriously because you know it can trigger a reaction,
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  Speaker 1: whether suicide by Copple or violence of this nature. Crime
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Greece for those of you just joining us,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: we are talking about the horrible events that have unfolded
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  Speaker 1: and Sunrise, Florida. It's near Fort Lauderdale, near the Everglades,
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  Speaker 1: population about eighty five thousand, where you think crime would
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: be at an all time low, and a small area
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  Speaker 1: like that, a small community wrong. You never know who
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: is a child predator, who is trading child pornography? Horrible images.
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  Speaker 1: I've seen them. They are sickening, sickening. These two agents
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  Speaker 1: have devoted their lives to fighting for children and now
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  Speaker 1: they are dead thanks to this PERV hold up barricaded
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: in his apartment, who ambushed the two agents as they
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: walked toward the door, joining an all star panel but
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: back to Steve arigin Fox He's correspondent joining me there
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: at the apartments. I understand that the purp had time
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: to barricade himself in his apartment and then shoot through
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: the door. That's easily determined forensically whether he shot through
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the door, so he had time. He lay in wait,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: barricaded himself as he saw the agents coming. That's right,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: and neighbors around this apartment heard the shots. Just after
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: six am. Some came out to see what was going on.
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  Speaker 1: Law enforcement told them to get back inside their houses.
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  Speaker 1: Within minutes, there was a huge law enforcement presence here.
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  Speaker 1: There was a squat team operating on a nearby child
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  Speaker 1: pornography case. They came to join the fight with armored vehicles.
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  Speaker 1: It was one of those armored vehicles that was able
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: to pull one of the wounded agents out to safety. Guys,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: take a listen to ours at WPLG Local ten or Not.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Fires was a sunt tense moments Tuesday morning as an
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  Speaker 1: FBI rate in sun Eyes turned deadly when two agents
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: were killed and three others were injured by gunfire were
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: inside of the development officers. It started around six am
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  Speaker 1: when law enforcement moved in on this apartment complex off
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  Speaker 1: of knob Hill Road, just south of forty Hoard Street.
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  Speaker 1: The FBI says they were executing a federal court ordered
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  Speaker 1: search warrants as part of a violent crimes against children case.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: But then bullets began flying. FBI agents shot personal patients.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Right now, two patients are when I hear what was happening,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the confusion surrounding the gunning down of two innocent agents.
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  Speaker 1: Alfin lays behind a wife and a child. Schwartzenburger lays
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: behind a husband and two children. Now Alfen and back
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  Speaker 1: to you. Steve Harrigan had been fighting fighting child pornogurae
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  Speaker 1: and violent acts on children four years. As a matter
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  Speaker 1: of fact, he brought down a major major dark web
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  Speaker 1: child porn site called Playpen, resulting in the recovery of
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  Speaker 1: nearly three hundred children and their identification. He's been in
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  Speaker 1: this for a long time. And Schwartzenburger, her specialty was
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  Speaker 1: tracking child pornographers. She even took time to go speak
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  Speaker 1: at middle schools telling children how to be safe. That's
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  Speaker 1: who we're talking about, real life, everyday hero, Steve. These
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  Speaker 1: two were both veterans and one of the most difficult
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  Speaker 1: task forces there is where they had to deal with
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  Speaker 1: horrendous things day in and day out, violent child pornography.
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  Speaker 1: Both had worked in this area four years, and as
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  Speaker 1: you said, both leave families behind. Alfin in his thirties,
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  Speaker 1: leaving a wife and one child, Schwartzenburger her forties, leaving
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  Speaker 1: a husband and two children. And they were pillars really
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: at the community as well. Schwarzenberger a regular speaker, trying
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: to advise elementary and high school students how to avoid sexting,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: how to avoid getting trapped, really trying to avoid having
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  Speaker 1: these children come to her later with problems. So dedicated
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: to the community, working an incredibly tough job, going out
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  Speaker 1: every day and putting their lives on the line. Jeff,
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  Speaker 1: of course has the former special astion FBI. Wouldn't it
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  Speaker 1: have been standard operating procedure for them to be wearing vests?
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  Speaker 1: And what does that tell you about the kits these
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: two took. Yeah, so leading into the arrest, obviously they
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: would be wearing other you know, mandated tactical equipment and gear,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, which includes their tactical vests, you know, outside
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: of the enhanced vests that are tactical teams are swat
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: teams where you know, if he was using an assault rifle,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: depending on the caliber. You know, these vests are not
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  Speaker 1: really built to withstand that kind of firepower. What do
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you mean by that? Not built to withstand that fire firepower? Blah?
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  Speaker 1: Why would we put agents at risk if the vests
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: can't protect them? Well, I mean, it depends on how
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: many rounds The vest curuct depends on where the shots
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  Speaker 1: were located. But you know, depending on the size of
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  Speaker 1: the round, there are rounds that exist that will penetrate
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  Speaker 1: law enforce some standard issued vests. To Jeff Cartesi, I
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: understand the identity of the pur has been kept secret
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: up till now while they try to contact his next
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: of ken. What I mean, do you think the next
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of ken are going to be open about the fact that, Hey,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: this is my cousin. You know, it's hard to tell
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: exactly how a family will react to this situation. You know,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: we've seen the gambits of family members go from everything
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: from denial to to um denial of the relationship, to
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: denial that anything that the individual was capable of doing
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: anything wrong. So the family response is unknown. Child pornography,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: You don't want to admit someone you love or no,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: we're related to you know, is a criminal much less
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: this type of crime. Guys. Take a listen to Willard
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Shephard WTVJMC six. So what the circumstances we're here is
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: that we were now told that this person had a camera,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: actually a ring camera, a system like that set up
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: outside of their apartment and actually saw the agents approaching.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Sources telling us that this person saw them coming up
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: to the door, actually opened fire before they actually started
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: the official process of executing the warrant. So that will
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: be something they will be looking into as a forensic
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: teams here behind me continue all of their work moving forward,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: but right now the focus is on supporting the families
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: who lost their loved ones today. Straight out to Nicole
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: to board a hutch Claud criminal defense attorney in Houston, Texas,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: former prosecutor, and you can find her to board law
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: from dot com. Nicole, thank you for being with us. Now,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I guess every one of your clients going to run
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: out and get a ring doorbell cam because what was
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: created to protect law abiding citizens to let us know
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: who's at our door now being used against police. Well,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the good news is that this is very much an
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: outlier I've been doing this for several decades and fortunately
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I have never had a client launching attack on law enforcement.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: You know, it's generally speaking, helps the client who is
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: facing arrest to cooperate with police and when they know
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: that there's a warrant out there for them, the best
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and smartest thing to do is to go and turn
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: themselves in. This can actually help in terms of sentencing. Ultimately,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: if the client has ever found guilty, well, I'm glad
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: for you, and I mean that's sincerely a nicole deboored
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: hotchlamb that none of your clients that were shot a cop.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Because one of my friends early on in the District
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Attorney's office who I befriended, Randy Chapani, was gunned down
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: on a routine traffic stop for no reason. He had
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: just just gott into the car and was gunned down
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: right there on the street. And the shot waves that
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: sent through the APD in the Fulton County DA's office
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: is something I'll never forget. I mean, the reality is,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: to Jeff Cortez's former special agent with the FBI, it's
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: not that uncommon. And now ring doorbell cams are going
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to be used against the police. This guy said a
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: horrible precedent. If they didn't already have a ring, they're
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: gonna have one by this afternoon at four o'clock when
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: they wake up. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: You know how what the investigation, internal investigation reveals about
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the incident, this is not unfortunately, it's terribly uncommon thing.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: It's it is what happens. It is why law enforced
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and get the jocked up to conduct arrests, whether white,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: polar or violent crime. There's a reason they go with
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: heavy force and they go early in the morning. We
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: want to mitigate the likelihood of this happening. But once again,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: when you're talking about child exportation, child pornography crimes, these
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: are incredibly unpredictable people whose lives are going to be
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: ruined in ways that you know, Joe Criminal's life isn't
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: The unmasking of this this double life, the unmasking of
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: this criminal activity seens folks engaged in this activity into
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: a tailspin sometimes, and you know, violence is not an
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: unusual outcome. Time stories with Nancy Grace for those of
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: you just joining us, two special agents with the FBI
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: are being mourned now three others wounded too, still remain
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: in the hospital having a shot in the legs and
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the arms. Special Agent Daniel Alfin just thirty six years old,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: wife and child left behind. Special Agent Lars Schwartzenburger, forty
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: three years old, is behind a husband and two children
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that want to know why my mom. The last they
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: saw her, she goes off to work and they never
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: see her alive again. Same for Alpin. Take a listen
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: to George Pierre, FBI Special Agent in charge. It takes
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: an incredibly special person to answer the call and do
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the heroic work of an FBI special agent. It requires
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: self sacrifice. It requires putting one's self in harm's way,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: not once, but again and again. Dan and Laura left
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: home this morning to carry out the mission they signed
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: up for and loved to do, to keep the American
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: people safe. They were valuable members of the FBI and
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: will forever be heroes. We will always honor their ultimate sacrifice.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: And you know what happens in the blink of an eye.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: You know to doctor Jeff Gardier, Board certified Clinical Psychologist,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Professor Behavioral Medicine at TRURO at doctor Jeff Guardier dot com,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: author of the causes of autism on Amazon. Doctor Jeff,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: it's great to hear your voice this morning, old friend.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I recall being out serving subpoenas with my investigator on
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: a triple homicide. I remember it like it was yesterday,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and we went up a porch and knocked, and there
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: was a screen door over the door, which makes it
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: easy for the person on the inside to see out,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: more difficult for you to see in. And it was weathered.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: It was dark, you know, not bright shiny metal screen door.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: And the first thing we could make out was the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: barrel of a gun pointed right at us, one foot away.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: My investigator grabbed me. My hands were full of documents
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: and files. They went flying and we leapt, well, he leapt.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: He pulled me with them off the porch, down about
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know, four or five feet. I'll never forget it.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: And what I remember the most is I've only seen
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: the barrel through that screen, but the fact that it
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: happened so quickly. We didn't hear the door opened, the
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: main door. I didn't see anybody. I was looking straight there,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: looking down at my files and looking up, and all
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, there was the barrel of a gun
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm just thinking about these two walking up that
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: morning together. They were partners. The early morning, I was
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: still dark outside, went out of nowhere, they were ambushed.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: That dichotomy of the normalcy of the moment, and then
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: suddenly they're dead and their children no longer have mom
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: or dad anymore. Everybody's life is changed because of one
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: child pornographer. Absolutely Nancy, and these brave law enforcement heroes,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: especially these two FBI agents. May they rest in peace.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: These individuals, my god, they face this every single day.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: They know that when they're going to go out and
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: apprehend someone or follow through on an investigation, that their
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: lives are in danger. Wait a minute, doctor, Jeff, I
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: hear you. I hear what you're saying. But Jeff Cortesi
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: a former special FBI at Jeff Cortesi dot com. Yeah,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I mean when I went out that morning to deliver savenas,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: and I guess I knew somewhere in the back of
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: my mind somebody connected to a triple homicide case might
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: not like me knocking on their door. I guess I
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: knew that way way deep buried. But if you listen
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to that, you're paralyzed. You never get out from under
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: your bed. No task would would ever be achieved, no
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: dream whatever comes true because you're afraid. I mean, come on, courtesy,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: When you go out the door and you get in
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: your car today, yeah somebody might t bone you had
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: a red light, but are you going to stop driving?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Do you really dwell on the fact. Yeah, they knew,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: but they did their job anyway, COURTESI just like you. Yeah, No,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think people can fully appreciate the amount of
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: result it takes to work the types of violations that
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: these agents were, the kinds against Children program, the kitty crimes.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: The agents that work this program in the different field
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: offices have a type of resolve that is beyond what
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I'm willing and able to do. I couldn't do it.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I've been involved in a lot of these arrests in
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: search forts, but the investigative process itself. So to your point, yes,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: we all strap on a gun and anywhere we go
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: there's always at least one gun in the room, and
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the likelihood that something can go wrong is always there.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: But it is the willingness to overcome that, that fear
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: that makes folks like these so so courageous. It's a
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: really I mean, I'm the amount of courage it took
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: to do their day to day job exceeds I can't
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: say this enough. What any other FBI agent in the
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: bureau does when it comes to dealing with the day
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: in and day out heinous nature of the crime takes
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: a special person. These were special agents. And I don't
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: mean that is you know FBI special agents. These were
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: special special agents. You have to have a steal stomach
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to deal with child pornography. I remember when I was
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: writing my first book, Jeff, and it dealt with you know,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I had to deal with people fascinated with rhymescens and
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: corpses and child pornography. When I finished that book, I
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: destroyed the computer. I thought it was bad luck. I
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: know that's crazy, but that computer, all those horrible, horrible
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: images live there. They're they're so upsetting that I don't
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: even like to think about them. And these two went
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: out every day and confronted the people responsible for child pornography,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: for the rape of our innocent children. I mean Glenn Pounder,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: CEO Child Rescue Coalition. It's hard to keep working when
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: that's what you have to look at and deal with
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, it really is, and then I agree
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: with the former agent that work in these cases is
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: some of the most difficult work that law enforcement does. Suddenly,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I worked in law enforcements for thirty one years. The
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: first case of mind like this was a VHS take,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: which I guess shows my age a little bit. It
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: also shows that the Internet has played a huge part
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: in the pluriferation of child sexual beast material, but also
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: the ways in which these guys can connect, and certainly
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: the case Dan worked on, the Playpen case, those bad
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: guys to get into these closed rooms had to present
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: new child great videos of young children before the administrators
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: would let them in the rooms. And obviously Dan was
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: one of the heroes who worked on that case. And
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Rescue helped rescue children all around the world. So FBII
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: many other agencies here in the US, state and local,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: and then a world wide network with law enforcement that's
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: fighting this use on a daily basis. A friend of
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: mine was on the other warrant just a few miles away,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: another child protection case. There were also guns on that
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: premises as well. You know, I went and testified at
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Congress to a special committee about child pornography, and I
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: know they wanted to help. And when you tell people
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: about what you've seen, God bless them because they can't
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: grasp it. When you see it, it's something you will
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: never forget. In these two, Dan Alfin and Laura Schwarzenberger,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: we're fighting the good fight. I'm stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: we are talking about the horrific shooting of two FBI
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: agentes who just left that morning to do their job.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to George Pierreau. Dan was thirty six
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: years old. He was born in New York and joined
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: the FBI in two thousand and nine, with his initial
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: assignment to the FBI's Albany, New York office. He has
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: been assigned to FBI in Miami since twenty seventeen and
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: has worked crimes against Children violations for over six years.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: He survived by his wife and one child. And what
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: about Laura Schwarzenberger listened to Pierre. Laura was forty three
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: years old. He was born in Frebero, Colorado, and joined
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: the FBI in two thousand and five. Her initial assignment
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: was with the FIES Albuquerque, New Mexico office. Who is
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: assigned to FBI Miami twenty ten and has worked climes
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: against Children cases for over seven years. She is survived
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: by her husband and two children. To doctor Tim Gallagher,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a medical exam or joining us from that jurisdiction the
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Emmy for the entire state of Florida at pathcaremed dot com.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher, thank you for being with us. I've got
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a question for you. If these two were wearing vests
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: and tactical gear, which I do believe they were, how
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: is it that they both died on the scene. Well man,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: So we have to remember that the tactical vest are
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: bullet resistance and they're not all bulletproof. Typically, they're able
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: to stop the projectiles up a handgun, so they're able
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to stop project the bullets from a handgun fired from
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: a handgun, but assault rifles are different. There the bullets
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: go a lot faster, the bullets have sharp points on them,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and a lot of the times they're able to penetrate
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: through that kevlar vest and into the body to the
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: point where they can cause fatal injuries. Just thinking about
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: how they died there on the same guys, take a
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: listen to Hazel Vela at WPLG Local TENR Cut nine
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: here at Broward Health Emotional Support by way of a hug,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: and minutes later, the heartbreaking images we didn't want to
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: see the body of one of the fallen agents brought out,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the American flag draped over as other officers and agents
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: salute two special agents, Daniel Alfin and Laura Schwartzenburger, making
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: the ultimate sacrifice while on duty. It is from here
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: where a somber procession takes off today. Some words from
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the FBI Agents Association. They say these agents were working
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: to protect the most vulnerable in our society. We stand
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: with the agent's families and pledge to support them during
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: this difficult time. FBI agents risk their lives to protect
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: our country, and the loss of these agents is devastating
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: to the entire FBI community and to our country. Doctor
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, Why were they taken to the medical Examiner's
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: office after leaving Broward Health if they were already pronounced dead?
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Good question. I mean, people do not go to the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: medical examiners to be pronounced dead. You need to be
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: pronounced dead to go to the medical examiners. But the
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: medical examiner has jurisdiction over the body if it is involved.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: If the death is involved during the commission of a crime,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: or during the commission of a shooting. So these unfortunate
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: officers were killed in the line of duty. This is
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: a police involved shooting and that falls under the jurisdiction
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: of the medical examiners. So the bullets need to be
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: recovered from the body, if the bullets are retained in
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the body, and those bullets need to be matched up
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: to the weapon that was used in the commission of
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: the crime. And this helped in the trial to convict
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: the suspect. To Nicole Deboord hots Globe, a high profile
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney joining us out of Houston, Texas, and
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: you can find her at the Deboord d e bo
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Rde Law Firm dot com. Nicole, from what we know,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: as the agents closed in on him after he gunned
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: down Alfin and Schwarzenburger, he then shot himself, echoing what
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagherant just told us. The autopsies must be
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: performed on all three of them to determine exactly whose
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: bullet fired the fatal shot. Yes, that's exactly right, and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I think you've raised some really great points. I mean, unfortunately, officers,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: when they're doing their jobs, they're putting themselves in harm's way.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Day in and day out. And there are our jurisdictions
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: right now in our country where it is in vogue
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: to prosecute officers who find themselves in a position to
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: have to shoot back. And so you know, the risk
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: that they face and the fear that they may be,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: you know, really attacked publicly for ultimately preserving their own
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: safety is a very real problem right now for law
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: enforcement across the country. Take a listen to our cut fourteen.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: This is Julie Nardi at WTVJ. That's in BC six
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: in South Florida. Listen, things have calmed down just a
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: little bit. Here you can see police tape that used
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: to be up blocking this road no longer up. But
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: this street, knob Hill Road, is still close though to traffic.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: We spoke to neighbors earlier this morning who told us
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: what it was like when they woke up. Annoying neighbors
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: along knob Hill Road in sunrise woken up to the
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: sound of sirens. Moments later, the streets blocked off and
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: a warning from law enforcement to this community to remain
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: inside until further notice. When I got out, I noticed
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: a lotova police going on in the Nokil area. I
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: couldn't actually get out through noki La to get out
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: through the other side. Zorieta says she didn't hear the gunshots,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and neighbors were left scared and unsure as chaos unfolded
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: on their block. I one there would happen, but then
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I ask around, I know, nobody know anything. She tells
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: us this is typically a safe community and has never
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: seen anything like this in the fifteen years she's lived in.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Sunrise was a middle class community dotted by residential single
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: family homes and apartments, where this perp lived in an apartment.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: The fans were led to him by his IP address
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: after allegedly trading child pornography online or to doctor Jeff Garder,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: clinical psychologist, Professor Behavioral Medicine at Touro. You can find
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: him at doctor Jeff Guardier garde ar dot com. Doctor Jeff.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: We were listening to Cortesi describing how when you've got
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: a child molester or a child pornographer, once that arrest
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: or that search goes down, their double life is blown
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: to bits. The facade that they present to family, friends, neighbors,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: at work, it's shot to h e double l and
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the thought of that happening, I believe led this guy
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: to open fire on Alfred and Schwarzenberger. Absolutely, I firmly
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: believe that this was a person who knew that his
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: cover had been completely blown. What he was doing throughout
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: the years was absolutely horrific, criminal, just completely the worst
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: thing anyone can do to anyone else, especially children, in
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: promoting these sites or the site that he had, and
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that's why he was ready to die. He was going
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: to take out as many people as possible, and he
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: knew that he would not walk out of their alive.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: To Glenn Pound or Chief operating officer Child Rescue Coalition,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you can find him at Child Rescue Coalition dot org. Glenn.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Who are these people? Who are these child pornographers? I mean,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: they're among us. We just can't see what they are
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: unless we look at their computer. Yes, it's a great point, Duncie.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I mean literally, I think back in the day everyone
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: had this impression of some guy in the basement. That's
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: just not the case. They're in all of our communities. Often,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: we've seen hundreds of cases of oz where that these
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: guys are in positions of trust as well. We are teachers, doctors, lawyers,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: you know, upstanding members of the community, a church pastor.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: The list goes on, so there are people who you know.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: And I think what's also important is when we talk
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: about grooming, sometimes it's the adults who've been groomed, right,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: So adults are grooms. They think, no, that couldn't be Bob.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: He's a great guy, and so adults get groomed often
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: first before a child is because everyone believes he's such
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: a great guy. He can't be the one who's great
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: in children. I'm sorry to say these guys lived in
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and around us every single city on the planet. Our
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: prayers are with the families our special Agent Daniel Alfin
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: and Special Agent Laura Schwarzenburger. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: off Goodbye friend,