Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to (the one responsible) Paul Quinn about his choice of Resurrection of the Daleks (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to (the one responsible) Paul Quinn about his choice of Resurrection of the Daleks (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. A hamster with a Blump Pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing quicker Welcome back to a hamster with a Blump Pen
• 0:43
  Knife. The Doctor Who Commentary
• 0:44
  Podcast is a enormous pleasure for me to introduce my guest
• 0:51
  today. I can say with some authority
• 0:54
  the man who is entirely responsible for a this podcast
• 0:57
  existing and B my love of Doctor Who stretching through my entire
• 1:02
  life. It's Mr. Paul Quinn.
• 1:04
  Hello, Paul. Hello Joe, delighted to be here
• 1:07
  in the main. Hamster A blunt and I having
• 1:11
  appeared on the the The Book Club a couple of weeks ago, I'm
• 1:14
  delighted to be here. I I do want these still.
• 1:19
  We want the Bankro quotation, their shape, the quotation to
• 1:22
  indicate how long we've been in this kind of weird tandem thing
• 1:25
  around Doctor Who. But here I am on the main, the
• 1:27
  main show to talk about an interesting example of 80s
• 1:32
  Doctor Who. Oh, interesting is that I can
• 1:35
  remember, you know, even back in the day.
• 1:37
  And so this is going back 30-40 years now.
• 1:42
  I won't be too specific that one, you were not that keen on
• 1:48
  the 5th Doctor's era, Two, you had some strong opinions about
• 1:53
  the 5th Doctor himself, and three, you've never been keen on
• 1:58
  resurrection of the Daleks. How?
• 2:00
  How? How accurate am I there?
• 2:02
  Yes, yes, and absolutely yes. OK, well, let's do the first one
• 2:07
  then the era. What's wrong?
• 2:12
  What's wrong with the 5th Doctor?
• 2:13
  Or what's wrong with Beatty's Doctor?
• 2:14
  What's wrong with the 5th Doctor of the era?
• 2:19
  I think Davidson is cast for the wrong reasons, I think.
• 2:24
  I think the casting is based on negatives rather than positives,
• 2:27
  in that he's not Tom Baker. He's not Tom Baker, and he's
• 2:33
  still not Tom Baker. Therefore, he's not tall, with
• 2:37
  curly hair, mad eyes and he's not Doctor Who from season 17.
• 2:41
  So you get Peter Davison, who's a well known figure.
• 2:46
  I mean, don't get me wrong, he can see in a number of these
• 2:49
  scripts he's really trying to work with the material he's got.
• 2:52
  Unfortunately, a lot of material he gets isn't great.
• 2:57
  A key example is what we have here before us today.
• 3:01
  And that leads us to another problem with the era.
• 3:03
  There's a lack of consistency. There isn't really a vision
• 3:06
  there as to what John Nathan Turner and Eric Saywood want to
• 3:10
  do. If you look at the best runs of
• 3:13
  Doctor Who, and I think you talk about this when you were doing
• 3:17
  your overview of the 1960s, the best runs of Doctor Who are when
• 3:22
  you have a producer. And script editor.
• 3:25
  Story editor who are working very closely together and they
• 3:28
  may not have an idea for the whole season because that's not
• 3:30
  how old who works. But certainly there's a kind of
• 3:33
  consistency in what they're doing.
• 3:34
  So very he Lamb. But David Whittaker very he lamb
• 3:38
  and Dennis Spooner. You can see the problems emerged
• 3:41
  in season three around clash between producer and star.
• 3:44
  Hartnell's not going to be able to get away with that, so he's
• 3:47
  out in. His lawyer, of course, has
• 3:48
  begun. Or in but there's no real sense
• 3:52
  that Lloyd and Davis have an idea it's kind of turn into that
• 3:55
  type of formulaic it's aping other programs on the
• 3:58
  television. It's not really docked to
• 3:59
  anymore. Most of the fountains here is in
• 4:02
  kind of a crisis and they get by on that They I think this
• 4:07
  terrace Dicks involved in season 6 and just on on Trouton and
• 4:11
  Hines I think there was a pull through a lot there and then you
• 4:15
  get into the imperial phase of barrier let's and Terrance Dicks
• 4:19
  Philip Hinchliff and Robert Holmes.
• 4:21
  Graham Williams's problems, I think, are partly budgetary, but
• 4:24
  also because he he has three very different script editors.
• 4:28
  John Nathan Turner, he comes in, of course, he's got Barry Letts
• 4:31
  as executive producer, but also bid me.
• 4:34
  And there was a there was a brilliant essay in DWM about 20
• 4:37
  years ago that looked at season 18 and how every story looks at
• 4:41
  entropy. It becomes explicit in
• 4:44
  Lugopolis, but everything throughout that is about systems
• 4:47
  falling apart. And so it's building to this,
• 4:50
  this overall vision. Once bit me goes and I think bit
• 4:53
  me can write for the 5th Doctor. I think Castro, Valve and
• 4:56
  Frontiers are really very good and you can see Davidson's
• 5:00
  responded to that. Frontiers is probably the best
• 5:04
  performance for me, right? Awesome.
• 5:08
  And it's interesting because when you put frontiers, when you
• 5:10
  when you, when you consider season 21, this is really same
• 5:14
  with season because if you take Warriors of the Deep.
• 5:18
  Frontiers, Resurrection Dies and Case of Andrew Zani Because
• 5:22
  there's an interesting question to be asked about case of Andrew
• 5:24
  Zani. When you were doing your recent
• 5:26
  podcast, I think on Revelation, The Dialects, and you wrote you
• 5:28
  say about the influence of Robert Holmes and Eric Sayward.
• 5:31
  This, of course, is when. Holmes is back in the fold is
• 5:34
  during season 21. There's an interesting question
• 5:36
  about how far case of Andrew Zani is actually Eric Saywood as
• 5:40
  well as Robert Holmes because it was.
• 5:42
  They sit and work together in the BBC bar and if you look at
• 5:45
  case of Andrew Zani alongside the other hard macho Slaughter
• 5:51
  field epics in that season, it looks much closer to what say
• 5:55
  was seems to be pushing for than a lot of his own material if you
• 5:59
  compare it say to traitor. In late 17 four which of course
• 6:05
  is there's a relationship between that and case of
• 6:07
  Andrezzani and those and power of crawl.
• 6:10
  The sense in which Homes going back and reworking that
• 6:12
  material, the military, and that's far more parodic.
• 6:15
  There's far more that sense them sitting around talking about
• 6:17
  previous victory and of course homes been in the military
• 6:19
  himself. So how far that's reflective of
• 6:22
  his own experiences of command. Whereas say what it all seems to
• 6:25
  be horribly done straight almost.
• 6:30
  I mean there is AI think there is the.
• 6:32
  Parity is there in Andrews Army. It's not in this thing that
• 6:35
  we're looking at here. So I think, I think say Ward's
• 6:38
  relationship with John, Nathan Turner is problematic throughout
• 6:41
  the run and he explodes of course in season 23, but I think
• 6:44
  that's factoring into to to what type of scripts we're getting.
• 6:48
  Season 20 I think is atrocious. I think it's the worst season in
• 6:51
  Old Hood by a country mile, even if that relationship isn't
• 6:55
  bearing fruit that like gold sort of peeks through almost
• 7:00
  accidentally. Where do you think that is then,
• 7:02
  in in this era? I think I I think Castro Valva
• 7:06
  if you if you ask my my top three for Davidson it will be
• 7:11
  Andrew Zani predictably enough. Castro Valva and for for 1/3.
• 7:18
  I'd say frontiers. Actually my top three.
• 7:21
  So you can see that the original script editor for the season who
• 7:24
  comes back and then this old hand who comes in because
• 7:26
  doesn't really write for the 5th Doctor Holmes is just writing
• 7:29
  for a doctor. And you can see Davidson's
• 7:32
  responding to the type of scripts yet because Davidson is
• 7:34
  good when he's kind of waspish. But of course, because there's a
• 7:38
  terror in season 18 and 19 of humor, because of the perceived
• 7:43
  excesses of season 17, he's not allowed to be funny.
• 7:47
  And So what you get is this kind of.
• 7:50
  Blandness. I mean, looking at his
• 7:53
  subsequent career, if you look at Campion, which of course is
• 7:56
  his next major role, I think really I'll talk to that's the
• 8:01
  type of thing that you be better with.
• 8:02
  The famous lion, I think is a small child told him that he
• 8:05
  should be like Tristan Farnham in All Creatures, only brave,
• 8:10
  and then he makes a very barbed comment interview about if only
• 8:13
  we're allowed to do that. So there's a real sense of what
• 8:16
  you can't do as opposed to what you can.
• 8:19
  I mean the other facts are there I think.
• 8:21
  Yeah, the the lighting is always a problem.
• 8:23
  You can see costume designs are really causing trouble across
• 8:30
  this run and what we're about to watch today.
• 8:34
  Absolutely. But you can see that the same
• 8:35
  issues come into play in two Doctors, for example, and all
• 8:41
  the problems around Shark Eye come from the design and the
• 8:45
  fact that part make him look alien.
• 8:47
  And so that's where the cannibalism comes into, almost
• 8:50
  accidentally, because he's meant to be an alien, but because all
• 8:52
  he looks like is a pantomime oriental figure.
• 8:56
  And then you get issues around Western views of the East,
• 9:02
  around homosexuality and cannibalism.
• 9:06
  That all lands on that. And it's not really Holmes his
• 9:08
  fault, because if you look at the book of two doctors, he's
• 9:12
  meant to wear a butcher's apron. And he's meant to be much bigger
• 9:15
  and bold and look very different.
• 9:17
  Only that book is completely different, isn't it?
• 9:19
  It's brutal, that book, but but it's very funny as well.
• 9:24
  That brutality, of course, there's a sense there.
• 9:26
  I think that there was a point made years ago in one of the
• 9:29
  anniversary magazines that how do you account for the
• 9:32
  difference between the Sontarans and two doctors and the
• 9:36
  Sontarans and links in. A time warrior.
• 9:40
  And it's that Terence Dicks is prepared to put a hold on
• 9:44
  Holmes's excesses in a way that say what doesn't.
• 9:47
  And you know, the most excessive script that they they they slip
• 9:51
  up on is Terror of the Autumns, which of course prompts
• 9:54
  questions in the house around the portrayal of policemen.
• 9:57
  That doesn't seem to be a problem with this where the
• 9:59
  police, they go much further here.
• 10:02
  But there's a sense of which say what is giving Holmes his head
• 10:05
  and he's letting him run on? I mean, I I think.
• 10:08
  Homes are really in decline by this point anyway.
• 10:10
  I think he's been in decline ever since he stopped being
• 10:12
  script editor. I think I'm a lone voice and not
• 10:15
  particularly like a Rebus operation.
• 10:18
  I think that's nice. Yeah.
• 10:20
  Yeah yeah. And crawl obviously there's
• 10:23
  there's a couple of decent episodes in in in Blake 7.
• 10:26
  But Andrew Zani is really the great it's the comeback but also
• 10:29
  the swan song because I don't I don't think something else with
• 10:31
  sick TOS is good enough. And a lot of that, I think is
• 10:33
  say what say what is clearly read the expanding text.
• 10:38
  And has got an idea of there are these good writers that he's not
• 10:41
  allowed to approach because of John Nathan Turner's fear of the
• 10:44
  past. The problem with that is there's
• 10:46
  no there's no really coming through and and and finding
• 10:49
  decent rights of Doctor Who has always been a problem.
• 10:51
  It continues to be a problem and so Bob Baker Dave might or may
• 10:54
  not be the best writers in the world but they can write a
• 10:57
  script on time that touches all the points that you want.
• 11:00
  The science is rubbish. I mean, I'll defend Underworld
• 11:03
  to my dying day, but that's because I've got AI like the
• 11:06
  book, but. There's a real problem, I say.
• 11:09
  So I think. I think Christopher Bailey and
• 11:11
  Philip Martin, the two key writers that appear in this
• 11:14
  period, Barbara Clegg as well, I think I'm not a great fan of
• 11:18
  enlightenment, but I think there's some interesting ideas
• 11:20
  going on there. And and Stephen Gallagher as
• 11:22
  well, of course. But of course, I mean, I like, I
• 11:25
  really like Terminus. But you can see design and the
• 11:28
  the strikes, you know, the industrial action.
• 11:30
  But if you look none, none of Davidson's eras end on the
• 11:34
  scripts. They should do.
• 11:36
  Obviously, King's demons should never be made.
• 11:40
  It certainly shouldn't end season, but that's down to the
• 11:42
  strike. But season 19 and Season 21,
• 11:45
  they end on completely wrong scripts, and that's their own.
• 11:48
  That's because what you get with Season 19 is what's the biggest
• 11:54
  thing, the death of a companion or companion.
• 11:57
  Getting to where she's been trying to get to for the last
• 11:58
  six months and realizing that she doesn't want to be there.
• 12:00
  That's a weird way to end. And of course if if they reverse
• 12:04
  them. Get Tegan out.
• 12:05
  Then you don't have too many in the TARDIS and Earth shop.
• 12:08
  And then you get the break between the seasons where they
• 12:10
  could mourn Adrick. Whereas what you've got now is
• 12:12
  I'm so sad, Adrick's dead. Oh look, Concorde.
• 12:15
  And it's totally, really bizarre, isn't it?
• 12:18
  Yeah, it is. It is very there's.
• 12:21
  Just weird things going on there I I I think, I think I mean, I
• 12:24
  think well I mean if you if you look at then 24 to 26.
• 12:30
  That's when you've got John Nakin Turner and the script
• 12:32
  Eddie working in town and that's where you get the the pieces.
• 12:36
  I mean, I feel like John Nakin Turner's sort of taking his foot
• 12:38
  off the pedal here and every year he's trying to get out and
• 12:41
  he's sort of giving Andrew Cartmail free reign and saying,
• 12:44
  you know what, go and do what you want.
• 12:46
  I'll cast my eye over it. You know, we'll put it all on
• 12:48
  the screen, but basically make make the show that you want to
• 12:52
  make. I watched Resurrection of the
• 12:54
  Daleks this week. OK.
• 12:55
  And well, you, you know, thank you for doing this.
• 13:00
  I really appreciate it. And just the one thing that
• 13:03
  really stood out to me, yeah, was that there it just was, no
• 13:06
  humour in this at all. And where humour was attempted,
• 13:10
  it didn't land at all. So what I was left with was a
• 13:14
  string of ugly death and very convincingly portrayed death at
• 13:22
  that. And I'm just like, Where's the
• 13:24
  fun in this? What happened to the where?
• 13:29
  Say what says Doesn't he in one of the in an interview that the
• 13:33
  violence is realistic because they want to show that violence
• 13:36
  has consequences? Oh, it's more than 30 years in
• 13:39
  the TARDIS, isn't it? I think it's on that and he.
• 13:41
  Wants to. He puts you along up against the
• 13:45
  A-Team where no one dies. But you're right.
• 13:50
  Where is the humor? I mean, it's the same way I love
• 13:53
  Eccleston. I think he's brilliant casting.
• 13:56
  I think he's exactly what was needed.
• 13:57
  He's not brilliant on those like a moments that the Doctor needs
• 14:00
  to be able to do. This is a script that really
• 14:03
  kind of and there's no human. You're right.
• 14:05
  And it precludes even the possibility of it.
• 14:07
  They were attempts at it, I think, but they're so bad
• 14:10
  because say would say would can't write doctor at this
• 14:13
  point. I don't think Urshock's all
• 14:14
  right Visitation is the single most boring story of the 1980s.
• 14:19
  Absolutely terrible. I saw an ambitious, isn't it?
• 14:22
  It's not even. He's not even trying to.
• 14:25
  There's no detail in it at all, is there?
• 14:27
  It's. It's also there's one.
• 14:28
  Character and it's Michael Robbins.
• 14:32
  So it's Arthur from On the Buses, the the.
• 14:36
  Bullying. Misogynistic.
• 14:38
  Husband of Olive, who rode A motorbike with her packs in the
• 14:40
  cycle which everyone was still watching when that was
• 14:43
  broadcast. And there he is, meant to be
• 14:47
  whatever he's in. I'm a 17th century actor with a
• 14:49
  gun, Richard. And they showed.
• 14:52
  John Savant off in the 1st 5 minutes and John Savant
• 14:55
  Unforgivable. I mean, cars and table I go to.
• 14:59
  I went to school with Michael Melia's nieces and nephews and I
• 15:04
  still know one of his nephews. And I know there's this argument
• 15:07
  that the Terrell actually is the first great monster, the great
• 15:09
  visit. It's more than a monster.
• 15:11
  It's an actual character that Davidson comes up against.
• 15:13
  That's not really true, is it? Really it's.
• 15:17
  It's not a. Great costume either.
• 15:18
  I mean, obviously the balloon blowing up to indicate the
• 15:21
  melting, but that's the say ward ISM I think that we see here.
• 15:25
  And that you see in worries of the Deep, which I think is a bit
• 15:28
  that he he clearly writes because that's the thing.
• 15:30
  If you watch this alongside Worries, if you are the Very
• 15:35
  Long Story of the Deep, you can see the bits that say what
• 15:38
  rewrites in Worries of the Deep. You'll ride, though.
• 15:40
  As you'll see costume is it's we will get there, don't you worry.
• 15:44
  This conversation's too interesting to stop though.
• 15:47
  That costume in The Visitation is so bloody cumbersome.
• 15:50
  How can you find any new answer at all in that?
• 15:53
  Like, he's literally stuck standing still.
• 15:55
  But you know, I was thinking about other Doctor Who stories
• 15:58
  that have a lot of death in them.
• 16:00
  Yeah, things like Pyramidism are things like horror, fame, rock,
• 16:05
  even things like sort of brain Amorbius, things like that.
• 16:07
  And there there is comedy in there.
• 16:09
  They are dark stories, but they're funny, so and and
• 16:13
  they've got characters I'll give a shit about as well.
• 16:16
  More importantly, even if I vote, I did prove as much
• 16:20
  recently, and even if they're only characters that I've known
• 16:22
  for 5 minutes, but they're told so economically in a shorthand
• 16:26
  where they're immediately likable, I don't give a toss
• 16:29
  about anyone. None of this bunch.
• 16:32
  I think that's the important bit.
• 16:33
  I mean there's only, I think there's 8 deaths in Pyramids of
• 16:36
  Mars and in the novel and Dick Dick's kills off Akhmed, so all
• 16:40
  the handles are killed off, which I'm bothered about because
• 16:44
  I like Akhmed. I also think Pierce Mars is a
• 16:46
  brilliant book. We are particularly for the bit
• 16:48
  at the end. Where Sarah Jane goes home when
• 16:51
  she gets home, he is late best she sees what history has said
• 16:54
  has happened. And I think the point is we do
• 16:56
  care about the characters. I mean, I mean, Ernie Clemens's
• 16:59
  death is spectacularly unpleasant, particularly when he
• 17:01
  realises Lawrence Scarman, who kills him.
• 17:04
  Yeah. Not, not, not the mummies, the
• 17:07
  same horror of Frank Rock. I mean, that's where they all
• 17:10
  die. But we don't talk about in the
• 17:12
  same way we talk about it. It as a classic, which it is.
• 17:17
  The set is awesome. The direction is brilliant.
• 17:20
  It's before Baker really started to turn into that second version
• 17:24
  of the Doctor. Clearly Paddy Paddy Russell is
• 17:28
  keeping him under a tight right, But this because it's it's the
• 17:32
  difference between who's being killed and the numbers being
• 17:36
  killed and say what is just his load of soldiers.
• 17:39
  Let's kill them off. And it's the same problem that
• 17:41
  you'll get in in he's got fewer characters in Revelation of the
• 17:45
  Darlings, but he still can't resist killing characters when
• 17:47
  he doesn't know what to do with them.
• 17:50
  So Natasha and Gregor and Robin there, I mean, I don't, I don't
• 17:54
  know, they have to be killed up. It's interesting he survives in
• 17:59
  this. Yeah, indeed.
• 18:01
  Well, I was going to say I was going to say something there
• 18:05
  about people dying and it's completely escaped my mind.
• 18:09
  Honestly, you're saying too many interesting things.
• 18:11
  I'm trying to grab hold of every single one.
• 18:14
  Well, I'll tell you what, let's go into episode one and let's
• 18:17
  see what this thing has to offer.
• 18:18
  One thing I would say before we go in, and that is I was, I
• 18:22
  continue to be impressed with the direction of this story.
• 18:26
  I do think there are some weaknesses throughout, but I do
• 18:30
  think Matthew Robinson can put a set piece on the screen, I
• 18:36
  think. I think.
• 18:36
  If you if you if you look at Matthew Robinson, if you if you
• 18:39
  do look him up, he said. He's got his reputation being an
• 18:42
  actor direct an action director. But if you check IMDb before
• 18:49
  this, I can't see where the reputation is from.
• 18:51
  He does a couple of episodes of Zed Cars and he does softly
• 18:55
  softly or softly softly Task Force, the spin off and
• 18:58
  depending on the script they could be actually in that but
• 19:00
  does a lot of soap opera. He does a thing around the
• 19:03
  Salvation Army. Which Patrick Troughton turned
• 19:06
  up in and he does a thing with sheltered accommodation.
• 19:09
  Which Trout was weird because of course he's he's all over the
• 19:11
  place. He just turns up and he's this
• 19:12
  awesome actually to turn some of these random episodes.
• 19:15
  I think he just, I think, I think Robinson does count court
• 19:18
  as well. I mean, we're obviously
• 19:19
  obviously more famous for his subsequent career with Biker
• 19:21
  Grove and EastEnders, yeah. Because he he must just leave
• 19:25
  BBC World just before doctors recommissioned.
• 19:27
  But he's in Cambodia now, which is interesting.
• 19:30
  Well, let let's see what he's got to offer, shall we?
• 19:34
  Are you ready to skip to episode one?
• 19:37
  Are we watching the 45 minute cut?
• 19:39
  Are we watching the 25? I've got the 45 here.
• 19:41
  That's why I've five geared up there.
• 19:43
  Now, Cordy you. Well, you tell me when you're
• 19:46
  ready. You count us in.
• 19:47
  I'm. So 321 terrible * Field go we go
• 19:55
  oh, I'll tell you what, that's fine.
• 19:57
  I mean, we're not there yet, but that's a fine location that we
• 19:59
  open up in though, isn't it? Before it became.
• 20:04
  I think that's some of the most interesting material you but
• 20:09
  even there, that poor old man gets shot doesn't even no reason
• 20:12
  whatsoever. I think that might be a
• 20:14
  reference to something, but I couldn't think what it was.
• 20:16
  I thought it was Quake mass, but I don't.
• 20:17
  I don't think it is. There's that family who gets
• 20:20
  butchered in Quake mass too, but it's not analogous to that.
• 20:22
  So it might be something from Houston films because that's
• 20:25
  hanging over all of this. The kind of hyper macho stuff
• 20:27
  the very Lambert's producing at this point, you know.
• 20:33
  Long Good Friday is what he makes be thinking was that's
• 20:35
  around the redevelopment of doctrines isn't it.
• 20:38
  So yeah this this is nicely shot.
• 20:40
  I think you're you're right about that This is nicely shot
• 20:43
  nicely sinister. And you know if the rest of the
• 20:45
  story wasn't just this a lot of people with guns like this would
• 20:48
  be just on a very arresting opening.
• 20:50
  But because what follows is just more of this for an hour and a
• 20:54
  half. Oh.
• 20:55
  Here comes some weirdos in random costumes.
• 20:59
  Rodney viewers there, of course. Who viewers?
• 21:01
  And recognizing the likely lads, but also from messing around
• 21:04
  with basil brush. So who are these people?
• 21:08
  We did. It's never told is it.
• 21:09
  I mean the can there we go some police, look at some police and
• 21:12
  they've got some type of sub machine gun maybe I don't know
• 21:15
  maybe some of your your regular listeners know about guns and
• 21:18
  they can tweet what that actual type of gun that the police are
• 21:21
  wielding are. This is hard stuff.
• 21:24
  Yeah, it's brilliant, this is. Much worse, I would suggest,
• 21:28
  than terror. The Auckland's which Questions
• 21:30
  in the house. And there's the Tramp, and of
• 21:32
  the first of a really terrible death scene.
• 21:36
  Oh, there's Morris Coleman. There we go.
• 21:38
  People would recognize him from Dave the Triffids, but from
• 21:40
  gangsters, Philip Martin's brilliant, very weird crime
• 21:45
  scene from from about five years earlier.
• 21:47
  Did he have a big role in that then?
• 21:49
  In gangsters, he's the lead. He's.
• 21:52
  Flying it always all goes. All very postmodern gangsters.
• 21:54
  I've suggested one reason why they have to do yellowing up in
• 21:57
  tons of Wen Chiang, because most of the actors with from
• 22:01
  Southeast Asian origin were in that.
• 22:05
  But I'd have to check when they're filming.
• 22:07
  Once again, nobody was available.
• 22:09
  Is that what you're saying? Yeah, it could be that Gangsters
• 22:11
  is brilliant and it's very odd, but it's interesting that you've
• 22:14
  got the lead figure from this in this and then Philip Markins
• 22:17
  coming in next season to produce.
• 22:20
  A brilliant story. I think Ben is embarrassed.
• 22:22
  Oh, he's so hard, isn't he? I mean, I really like Maurice
• 22:27
  Colvin. Him here's Tom Howard in
• 22:30
  Howard's way, which he's most famous for.
• 22:33
  He's one of the strangest cast in the British television
• 22:34
  because he is this hard man here.
• 22:36
  But of course, it's 1984, so they're all hard men.
• 22:39
  Because he meant he's like Bodie from the professionals and he's
• 22:42
  like. From the wild geese, which was
• 22:47
  the end of the 70s, or even Neil Burnside.
• 22:49
  From the Sandbaggers, the ITV's brilliant spy thing.
• 22:52
  From the end of the 70s, early 80s.
• 22:54
  Oh, look at Davison and moating everywhere.
• 22:56
  And there's Turley, the oldest schoolboy in the world.
• 23:01
  And. White socks as well.
• 23:06
  He's going to a disco. There's a real disco feeling
• 23:09
  this, even though they don't quite realize it.
• 23:10
  Because if you look at the state of Leslie Grantham, slicked back
• 23:13
  hair and hollowed out eyes wielding throats and you know.
• 23:18
  Davos is always surrounded by young men and older women.
• 23:22
  There's no there's no there's no women amongst the Carly the
• 23:25
  least. So I don't know it's good job
• 23:26
  they're working on genetics because they're not going to
• 23:28
  repopulate the Carly's any other way.
• 23:32
  So this bloke in the silver who we never really know who he is,
• 23:35
  Galloway, that's Grantham was off of that role wasn't he?
• 23:38
  But he took Kirsten because he's on the screen more often.
• 23:42
  OK, OK, The only thing you asked, well, what do you
• 23:45
  remember about resurrection of the Dallas?
• 23:47
  The only thing he could tell me beyond Teagan leave, it was he
• 23:50
  just looked at me and he went, oh, get out of the way.
• 23:53
  You know that bit where Rodney Boots just basically looks at
• 23:55
  the camera? Terrible casting in this.
• 23:59
  I don't know what they were thinking.
• 24:01
  Is he good? Actually, I've not really seen
• 24:02
  him in March. I've seen him in the Lightly
• 24:03
  lads but. What?
• 24:06
  There's something interesting going on around children's TV.
• 24:08
  Obviously Chloe, what's her name, is going to turn up and oh
• 24:11
  boy, well, we're going to talk about that.
• 24:14
  Rodney Bewers and Ruler Lensk had both done Jack and Ori the
• 24:18
  year before they were cast in this, so I don't know whether
• 24:20
  they were just trolling children's TV to find people
• 24:23
  who'd appear or not and then. But that's Oh yeah, yeah.
• 24:27
  I mean, I was thinking about modern children's TV because my
• 24:30
  children are all young, so I've been watching CBeebies all the
• 24:34
  time for about. Seven years now.
• 24:37
  And actually there's two people you could cast quite easily
• 24:39
  because they're, they're very good.
• 24:41
  And that's Rebecca, who CBeebies did as you like at the Globe
• 24:46
  last year. And she was Rosalind and she was
• 24:49
  brilliant. And Evie Pickering, who's in
• 24:51
  there? She was Juliet.
• 24:53
  When they do Romeo and Juliet and they didn't pull their
• 24:55
  punches, they they all die. They all die because it's not
• 24:59
  sable, but the the people who died die.
• 25:01
  And so you could easily go looking at children's TV now,
• 25:03
  but I don't think you could hear.
• 25:06
  At all, yes. So Galloway's dead?
• 25:10
  Yeah. Would you let your children
• 25:12
  watch this? No, I put them out of the
• 25:14
  Conservatory when I was watching it today. 1:00, because of the
• 25:17
  obvious bits, but two. It's shit they they would lose
• 25:22
  brain cells. Oh.
• 25:23
  Look at that silly hat. Now the hat's a problem, of
• 25:25
  course. Well, they're very Thunderbirds,
• 25:27
  aren't they? Well, that's.
• 25:28
  The problem? And then of course space patrol
• 25:32
  or space police or whatever the people or the, you know, space
• 25:36
  G4S who were running the prison, they got very similar hats as
• 25:39
  well. And This is why the the, the
• 25:41
  design is killing them at this point.
• 25:42
  Well, did no one get the memo in the print department?
• 25:45
  This is supposed to be witty drama.
• 25:47
  I mean, when the helmets turn up, and I read in about time
• 25:50
  that the the helmets turned up too late for the producer to say
• 25:53
  no. And so you get this weird thing
• 25:55
  with the the troopers wearing what looked like mini Daleks on
• 25:58
  there. Yeah, but it's of course it's.
• 25:59
  All going into the confusion around who the troopers are.
• 26:05
  I think Moffett was watching that, you know, when he had
• 26:07
  those Dalek sticks coming out of people's heads in Asylum and the
• 26:10
  Daleks. Moffett.
• 26:11
  Is definitely watching this because the end, oh look, Ruler
• 26:14
  ends because she's off for a round of tennis there, isn't
• 26:15
  she? It's going to run down prison.
• 26:21
  Look, if there's anyone I would trust to play this cynical tough
• 26:24
  nut, it's Ruder Lenska. Well, I mean, she lived with
• 26:27
  Dennis Walkerman, who was a bit handy of course, wasn't it?
• 26:30
  So, you know, she's surrounded by these kind of tediously hyper
• 26:33
  masculine men. What is interesting is there's a
• 26:36
  large number of black and ethnic minority.
• 26:39
  Yes, I was just about to say that to you.
• 26:41
  Yeah, very. Unusual for the programme at
• 26:44
  all, but certainly in this period and the fact I noticed a
• 26:47
  lot of in this was cigarettes. There's a lot of cigarettes.
• 26:51
  Even in space, you know must have found a way to.
• 26:54
  I mean, their vision of the future is is weird, as we'll see
• 26:57
  later on in it where they just can't think beyond quite old
• 27:02
  tech. And it's very funny.
• 27:03
  The hair band is mad, isn't it? Why so bleak?
• 27:07
  Why this sort of disused rundown station where everyone hates
• 27:11
  being there? I mean, it's so miserable.
• 27:13
  Famous warriors, the Deep. To run it the same, it's
• 27:15
  essentially the same story being run in the two seasons.
• 27:18
  And at that we know, say, what does a lot of rewrites to
• 27:22
  Warriors of the Deep. You can see he's essentially
• 27:24
  writing the same script and there's there's there's a,
• 27:27
  there's a scene key scene coming up in this episode which is a
• 27:31
  repetition never seen late on in Warriors the Deep.
• 27:33
  There's something really lazy going on here, I think.
• 27:36
  Wouldn't you assume if you're writing the same script again
• 27:38
  that it would get better, not worse?
• 27:41
  No. You, you.
• 27:41
  I wouldn't. And ass always makes assume
• 27:44
  always makes an asset of you and me.
• 27:45
  It certainly makes an asset of very.
• 27:47
  Say what we go fan army? Yes.
• 27:50
  Look, this is hardcore stuff. This is just the type of thing
• 27:53
  people watched in 1994. It's proper, realistic stuff.
• 27:55
  And there's your one out of play school.
• 27:58
  So she might well bring Humpty and Jemima out to do whatever it
• 28:02
  is they're meant to be doing here.
• 28:04
  Oh, line deliveries are very old, Yeah.
• 28:08
  But I mean, there's a lot of weird things going on here, and
• 28:11
  I assume Robinson can only work with the script that he's got
• 28:14
  and he's getting no direction. This is over lit.
• 28:17
  For sometimes when you really run down, this is over lit.
• 28:20
  But of course over lighting is a problem.
• 28:21
  That's bedevil in the program at this point.
• 28:25
  It's what helps to do for Terminus, the entire thing.
• 28:27
  Terminus is set. It's probably better than this.
• 28:31
  There's some nice ceiling work, though.
• 28:32
  I think in the dialect spaceship, it's low to emphasize
• 28:36
  that it's designed for these these smaller beams this they
• 28:40
  need too many sets for this. There's too many locations.
• 28:43
  You're asking too much for the resources they've got.
• 28:46
  Too many plot lines, yes. We're going to go anywhere and
• 28:50
  then and then. You know, there's already a ton
• 28:53
  of plot lines, and he starts throwing in one liners of other
• 28:56
  plots. The The ending is a particularly
• 28:59
  inept piece of television, and you do wonder, had the script
• 29:02
  landed on his desk, what he'd do with it?
• 29:05
  Unfortunately, I don't know who meant to script edit the script
• 29:07
  edit, certainly not say what himself.
• 29:12
  That's quite a nice shot though, to establish where we are.
• 29:16
  Although of course, all I see is those publicity pictures.
• 29:19
  You know of them in front of London Bridge, Tower Bridge, so.
• 29:24
  I mean, it does emphasize, of course, that they're too close,
• 29:26
  does emphasize they're too close to civilization.
• 29:28
  So it does kind of wreck them. What happens later on when
• 29:31
  Tegan's on the run? Because you can see people on
• 29:33
  the bridge, she couldn't flag anyone down.
• 29:38
  Walmart straight. Oh, I was about to say the same
• 29:41
  thing. I mean, he doesn't get nothing
• 29:42
  to do with this. I don't.
• 29:43
  He just wanders around that space station yet.
• 29:45
  Nothing at all, really, When you think about it.
• 29:48
  I mean that that's another problem with the this run.
• 29:51
  There's too many in that title since he's 19.
• 29:56
  I like, I like Nyssa, but I don't know, there's a weird
• 30:01
  moment, you know, I think. Confidential.
• 30:05
  The, the, the, the long one. They showed the day of Rose's
• 30:09
  premiere where they were looking at old companions.
• 30:12
  I'm pretty sure Sarah Sutton suggested there was some type of
• 30:14
  revenge motive going on there. Revenge motif in Nyssa.
• 30:19
  Now, Nyssa would be much, much better if she was more like Dana
• 30:22
  Mellonby, but she's not, so to suggest otherwise is madness.
• 30:26
  What she is, is I don't know what she is, but I think, yeah,
• 30:29
  it's a problem with Adri. Yeah, there were two distinct
• 30:31
  versions of Adri running through Season 19.
• 30:34
  There's the horrible, misogynistic one who's always
• 30:36
  talking about food, and there's the other one that you see in
• 30:39
  season 18. I mean, I think Matthew was very
• 30:41
  good in in keeping track, and he's regular Lagopolis, and you
• 30:45
  kind of lose sight of that. I I think.
• 30:46
  I think it's terrible. When's Terrence?
• 30:47
  When's once Terrence Dudley's writing for him?
• 30:50
  Because Terrence Dudley's a hack.
• 30:52
  He can't actually do anything with him.
• 30:55
  Davis himself admits, doesn't he?
• 30:58
  How about Terrence Dudley? I mean.
• 31:01
  I mean, I I don't like Dudley because he wrecks survivors and
• 31:05
  he essentially drives Serenation off survivors and he is
• 31:08
  responsible for Ki and company. We had a way of fucking people
• 31:12
  off, didn't he? Terrance Dudley.
• 31:15
  Oh, here's a great, great line coming up here.
• 31:18
  That's half the crew are dead. Not all the crew.
• 31:21
  Half the crew. Why should you all be Doctor?
• 31:23
  She's actually the Doctor, isn't she?
• 31:25
  Yeah. Right.
• 31:27
  That's important as well for later on because suddenly she's
• 31:30
  got a laboratory when they need one.
• 31:31
  But you know what, right? You know what?
• 31:33
  Doctor Who has a long line of amazing off screen characters.
• 31:37
  President Zarb, people are like we never meet but they paint an
• 31:41
  amazing picture. This guy, the captain who's
• 31:43
  mentioned in one scene as you know, being a bit lazy and then
• 31:46
  another scene being dead. Well, what was the point of
• 31:48
  that? I mean.
• 31:50
  They could have just made her captain.
• 31:52
  Because she doesn't do any doctoring.
• 31:53
  I think is the is the point. There's lots of people dying and
• 31:56
  she's not doing any doctoring and she's the one that kind of
• 31:59
  goes down with the ship is she's the one that's trying to blow it
• 32:02
  up, isn't she? Yeah.
• 32:04
  I mean, I mean that that whole business around the self
• 32:06
  destruct. There's, there's, oh, look, oh
• 32:07
  look. Oh, I meant to be tense.
• 32:09
  Oh, no way. It's Rottie views.
• 32:10
  Where's where? Have you got anything to eat?
• 32:13
  Have you got any? Have you got anything to eat?
• 32:16
  OK. Will you do me a favour, please,
• 32:18
  and explain to me what Stein is supposed to be doing in episode
• 32:22
  one? So the big twist is there's no
• 32:25
  spoiler. It's old now.
• 32:26
  He's a Dalek agent. OK, So what?
• 32:29
  They He doesn't know the Army's going to come.
• 32:31
  He doesn't know the Doctor, Tegan and Turlo are going to
• 32:33
  come. So what's he doing?
• 32:36
  Well, it's more than. That of course, because Dennis
• 32:37
  revealed he's actually a a replica, but the replicas are
• 32:40
  rubbish. I mean, the replicas is one of
• 32:42
  the weirdest bits in this whole plot.
• 32:45
  And of course there's a line that suggests that that liton is
• 32:47
  a replica as well. Because the Doctor is owes
• 32:50
  everyone a replica and Stein says yes.
• 32:53
  And by that point they're being described as the Dalek troopers.
• 32:56
  Because the the the logic at the start of this is that the Daleks
• 33:00
  have had to hire in Litton's mercenaries because in attack
• 33:04
  and sidemen Litton as you recall is is is for hire and he's he
• 33:08
  was a good guy after all. Yeah, I don't buy it at all.
• 33:14
  And then Stein described himself as a quartermaster Sergeant.
• 33:16
  Again, the way. But then we're told he's part of
• 33:18
  Litton's elite group, elite bodyguards, and that's why he's
• 33:22
  escorting the Doctor. So what he is, it depends on
• 33:26
  what page. Say what he's writing the
• 33:27
  script. I because there is no
• 33:30
  consistency and certainly known as Zed.
• 33:32
  This is this. That's pretty.
• 33:34
  Clear. It's basically draft 1-2 and
• 33:37
  three all just meshed in together.
• 33:39
  I. Mean Earth Shot.
• 33:41
  I think the second-half of our shop does need a second edit
• 33:44
  there. There's weird things going on
• 33:45
  there like we're going to crash this, start this, this carrier
• 33:49
  and there's loads of sidemen on board and they're going to get
• 33:51
  destroyed. But we've got more as a backup
• 33:54
  and like that's kind of silly, but that's partly I think,
• 33:56
  because episodes one and two out the same way, didn't they?
• 33:59
  So season 19's got that weird structure of essentially 4
• 34:02
  pastors, but it's two and two. You see that clearly in Castro,
• 34:05
  Alva as well. This doesn't really have that
• 34:07
  excuse. I mean the the four part of the
• 34:10
  of this I don't think is any better.
• 34:12
  But but Stein is whatever he's meant to be.
• 34:14
  Here comes a Say what ISM now, Eric trying to board a
• 34:22
  spaceship? Bought a bit of a spaceship
• 34:24
  because he will do the same thing.
• 34:26
  Trying to get tension of opening a door in earth shop here and
• 34:29
  worries the deep and he tries to do it twice here and he uses the
• 34:32
  same technique as in worries as in Earth shop where they're
• 34:35
  breaking the door down. I mean that's a brilliant scene
• 34:37
  in earth Shop where the sidemen gets caught and then they blow
• 34:39
  the door, they blow the blading doors off.
• 34:42
  This, I mean this entry of the darts is rubbish.
• 34:44
  This is terrible entry for the. It's shite.
• 34:48
  You have to swearing Joel. Let it go.
• 34:50
  Put a PG13 one on it. Everyone swears on this, don't
• 34:53
  worry. But I.
• 34:54
  Mean the lasers are rubbish as well?
• 34:56
  I mean, don't you really get something to mess here?
• 34:58
  Clearly the laser effects is too much expensive in this because
• 35:02
  of the darlings. What lame noise as well.
• 35:05
  Hair dryers. It's so much voice.
• 35:10
  What's very weird is when they start coming through and the
• 35:12
  camera pans in on the face melting, and more on that later,
• 35:16
  it's the Daleks just sort of bump into whatever bit of
• 35:19
  machinery is going on just so they can boot Daleks.
• 35:22
  In this at this moment are inept and they need Litton to work out
• 35:26
  a plan to board a spaceship. Therefore, they're not the all
• 35:28
  conquering masters of the universe, they're.
• 35:31
  Just incompetence. Later on they become the master
• 35:34
  stratagems again and and and Litton is working.
• 35:37
  Leo Litton is their creature. But it's complete inconsistency.
• 35:40
  This of course this, this entry scene and the face melting you
• 35:43
  get in what worries of the deep. Is aborting the ship and the
• 35:47
  CBS4. Rather it's the same scene and
• 35:49
  then you get face melting when the gas is released and the
• 35:52
  Warriors face melts so that that clearly Seyward writes that
• 35:56
  section of or rewrites that section and he's just using
• 35:59
  stuff he's already written for. This is you need it to be on
• 36:02
  film. You need a lot of money.
• 36:05
  You need to be able to execute it with a lot of panache, do you
• 36:09
  know, I feel? Like actually Malcolm Clarke is
• 36:11
  trying to do a lot of the work in that scene where they come
• 36:14
  through because his music rises and rises and rises and it's
• 36:17
  loud and headache inducing. But I mean, the music is a
• 36:20
  problem. But at that bit it kind of
• 36:22
  works. But then a lot of 80s music is
• 36:24
  terrible because it's really rubbish synth.
• 36:26
  I mean, yeah, it's been said by better paid commentators than
• 36:30
  me, but I think getting rid of Dudley Simpson the way he does
• 36:33
  it and when he does it and replaced him with a kazoo and a
• 36:37
  Yamaha 80. It was a great mistake.
• 36:41
  I look and then although, you know, can I say I do still
• 36:44
  remember, you know, aged whatever I was.
• 36:46
  And I'm going to do this a couple of times, you singing the
• 36:48
  music to the two doctors, that fabulous Spanish music in the
• 36:52
  two doctors to me and that's. That's good music.
• 36:56
  That might be a guitar. Here we go, these weird helmets
• 36:59
  they're wearing. So why the face melting on top
• 37:02
  of everything? The murder, the Daleks being
• 37:05
  detonated? Is it just to shock people?
• 37:08
  I think so. I think so.
• 37:09
  Here's some. Oh look, there's a Dalek helmet.
• 37:11
  Little Dalek on that man's head. We're we're down the park today
• 37:14
  with the kids and some local youth are clearly a good old
• 37:17
  time because there's canister of laughing gas dumped and that's
• 37:19
  what that looks like. I heard they crashed through
• 37:23
  like really crack dodging cars. Yeah.
• 37:27
  And then we get a big old close up on somebody.
• 37:31
  Burning to death. Melting away that it might meant
• 37:34
  to make us think of mustard gas in the First World War.
• 37:37
  But I don't think Eric Say was thinking those terms.
• 37:39
  I think it's kill everyone. But The thing is right is we
• 37:42
  don't know these people that would be so we don't care about
• 37:45
  them, don't know who the prisoner.
• 37:48
  Is at this point, so we don't care about that.
• 37:50
  So why do we care about this? I don't.
• 37:53
  I don't. I.
• 37:54
  Don't I? I I couldn't find it today but
• 37:56
  that. Is there any record of
• 37:58
  complaints going in about this? I don't think so, which is maybe
• 38:02
  nobody. Was watching at this point.
• 38:04
  No, no, no. The ratings are all.
• 38:06
  The ratings are all right, isn't it?
• 38:07
  Was it? Did this get the highest of the
• 38:08
  year? I think so.
• 38:11
  I mean. Don't forget course this is
• 38:12
  meant to be or a version. This is meant to be the end of
• 38:14
  season 20. Of course this is this was
• 38:16
  originally Warhead all the return and and and of course
• 38:20
  that's why season 20 ends so badly because you swap out a
• 38:23
  Dalek story for Anthony Allen. Doing a French accent in Bodium
• 38:27
  Castle was supposed to be Grim Wade, wasn't it?
• 38:30
  Grim Wade. Of course they have the.
• 38:31
  Big bust up over the dinner because Jonathan Turner was
• 38:34
  invited to lunch or dinner and he gets he gets the hump and
• 38:36
  says Grim we can't work on it and say we already commissioned
• 38:41
  the script for. I mean, Grim Wade's one of the
• 38:44
  few people you can actually get to work for because of course in
• 38:46
  the Starburst Suicide Note or deed or it is Starburst, isn't
• 38:51
  it? Say what talks about the
• 38:52
  directors that they can't get decent directors and those they
• 38:54
  can get. That's quite a good effect.
• 38:57
  They won't stay. So Harper does to Robinson does
• 39:00
  to. I think Robinson might be able
• 39:01
  to attack on Somu. I think is a better script as
• 39:04
  he's got better material to work and better sets to work with.
• 39:07
  I think that the Warehouse is terrible for the Dalek fight at
• 39:11
  the end. I I it's it's a it's atrocity
• 39:14
  done that that massacre at the end.
• 39:16
  Did you know that's there? So you have the two, the two
• 39:21
  black characters trying to get into Dave Ross's you know where
• 39:24
  he's in spelled information. But then when we cut to the
• 39:26
  bridge, they were part of the crew on the bridge that just got
• 39:30
  killed by the dialects. That's not lazy.
• 39:32
  This direction is at times I look nice.
• 39:34
  The. Diocese very back at this point
• 39:36
  as well, of course. I mean, I thought they'd I
• 39:38
  thought they'd new diox for this, but I think the new diox
• 39:40
  must turn up for Revelation. Well, are we as an audience
• 39:44
  supposed to remember the Mavellan War from Destiny on the
• 39:47
  Dice? That was four years ago.
• 39:49
  No but but. Ian Levine does.
• 39:53
  Important thing I think at this. Point I mean the the reveal of
• 39:56
  Davros, there he is just over your man's shoulder.
• 39:58
  It's, it's. Rubbish.
• 40:00
  That type of what it should be is completely frosted glass and
• 40:03
  slowly there's a reveal there. Well, because when the.
• 40:06
  Door goes up, It's done like a reveal with rising music.
• 40:09
  It's like, no, we've already seen him.
• 40:12
  I mean, they they cocked it up in Destiny, the Daleks, because
• 40:15
  the way he's he's what they he's in the basement covering cobwebs
• 40:18
  like, I don't know, an an abandoned television or
• 40:21
  something. And then his hand starts moving
• 40:23
  too quickly. I can't remember what his reveal
• 40:26
  was. In Revelation, in Destiny, in
• 40:30
  Destiny, he's covered in dust, and it's.
• 40:34
  Kind of. It's just kind of nonchalant and
• 40:37
  it's just done. But I suppose it's only a year
• 40:40
  after this. The gap I think is important, I
• 40:42
  know, because Revelation is working in a different way in
• 40:44
  time. It's not really working like a
• 40:46
  Doctor Who scripts at all. Pretty much more interesting in
• 40:50
  that Dave Ross. I love the way he's sitting
• 40:51
  there watching his cameras, giggling his head off.
• 40:54
  It's part of that season's motif around voyeurism and watching
• 41:00
  and how often people are being watched.
• 41:03
  And so, I mean, Benjamin Baris is the best example of it,
• 41:06
  obviously, because you have Stephen Yardley's character.
• 41:09
  What is it the the two people, Arak and Etta?
• 41:12
  Yeah. They're kind of knowledge.
• 41:14
  This is horrible as well. And then she kills him.
• 41:16
  This is one of the most. Unpleasant scenes in Doctor.
• 41:19
  It's 2 characters, we don't know.
• 41:21
  One's got his face melted off, the other one murders him and
• 41:25
  then they come in and murder her.
• 41:27
  It's just horrible. Screen, like Big and Butch, can
• 41:32
  match and it just screams. I suppose if you've been kind,
• 41:36
  you'd say it was reflective of the growth of violence in film.
• 41:42
  I know, but isn't it a little longer?
• 41:44
  You've you. Said, You know, with Haral, you
• 41:46
  know, we're casting more black actors and now we're murdering
• 41:50
  them all. It's actually.
• 41:52
  Doesn't black actors, they. Doesn't it for a long period of
• 41:55
  time? Yeah.
• 41:56
  I mean, there was the recent argument around Bill being shot
• 41:59
  and how often Moffett is killing off black characters.
• 42:03
  I do think there's a point there.
• 42:04
  You know I. I it's.
• 42:07
  I don't. It's not deliberate on Moffett's
• 42:08
  part. I just it just it's unfortunate
• 42:11
  it's it is really unfortunate and then and.
• 42:15
  Then all the bits about no Clark as well, which he's getting
• 42:18
  increasingly sticky, isn't he? Isn't he suing people as well?
• 42:20
  So he's just getting all caught up and then of course you know
• 42:25
  Martha and. Mickeya together at the end of
• 42:28
  season 4 because you put together the ethnic minority
• 42:31
  character, it's it's all kind of uncomfortable I think.
• 42:37
  I mean Mercer does survive until the end of this.
• 42:40
  So they don't kill off all the black characters, black
• 42:42
  characters, which I think is is the fact that we have to note it
• 42:47
  means that it's noteworthy when it shouldn't have been
• 42:50
  noteworthy because it shouldn't have been taken so long to have
• 42:52
  that many. Yeah, actors in the, in the
• 42:57
  text, in in in the program. And of course is also reflective
• 43:01
  of the debates been going online around the animation of a
• 43:08
  vulnerable snowman. Yes.
• 43:11
  Which we're around times when trying Tegan's slightly injured.
• 43:14
  Oh look, there you go. Bang.
• 43:16
  That's. I mean, the dykes are getting
• 43:19
  quite weak at this point, aren't they?
• 43:21
  It doesn't seem to be full of rocks.
• 43:22
  That Dalek, I mean say Ward got the OK from Terry from Terry
• 43:30
  Nation seemingly for the return or warhead but the Dykes had to
• 43:35
  be less vulnerable. I'm not sure they are less
• 43:37
  vulnerable at that point. It's like attack of the Simon
• 43:40
  when you can take the head off with a a lead pipe like it was
• 43:43
  Cluedo. But I suppose Stratton and Bates
• 43:45
  do have, must have super strength because they've been
• 43:47
  partly converted, haven't they, like Supreme and like, here's
• 43:51
  somebody else, we don't know who they are.
• 43:52
  Oh yeah, it's right through the lens.
• 43:53
  Because I I think partly it's working that you recognize who
• 43:57
  the actors are. Well, yeah, but.
• 44:01
  That ain't enough, is it? I know it's it's it's it's lazy
• 44:05
  in the extreme and it's just people we don't know the
• 44:08
  structure of. It is weird because in in a in a
• 44:10
  better structured program, you'd have one of the regulars with
• 44:13
  this group, which of course you do eventually, but it's just too
• 44:16
  late in it. Identify whether watching in 25
• 44:19
  minutes wouldn't make it less obvious.
• 44:21
  I think 45 minutes exposes problems with plotting, which
• 44:24
  you're going to get in season 22 as well.
• 44:25
  Of course, one of the there is that they most of the people
• 44:29
  can't write for that that length of time, which is odd given
• 44:32
  that's becoming your standard in British drama at that point.
• 44:37
  Really those type of half hours are moving towards the soap
• 44:41
  operas are doing that. Doctor Who's moving into a
• 44:43
  modern direction. So when you cut it back, cut the
• 44:46
  number of seasons but cut the length of the episode from
• 44:47
  season 23 onwards, he puts Doctor in a really odd position.
• 44:51
  But again it highlights who can write for it and who can't.
• 44:54
  And at this point you have to say, say would can't write for
• 44:57
  it or he needs an editor and I don't know who he did it would
• 44:59
  be as he is the editor because John Nathan Turner of course
• 45:02
  doesn't write. Well, until he does.
• 45:05
  But we'll never know what that 5 minutes in Mysterious Planet
• 45:08
  was. He doesn't.
• 45:09
  He doesn't direct as far as I can recall either, or he hasn't
• 45:12
  got. He has got a background indirect
• 45:14
  I think she wanted to direct. Black Orchid, didn't it?
• 45:16
  And that that never quite transpired.
• 45:18
  But you know, like then you said about, you know, we're supposed
• 45:21
  to recognize the actors. So that's kind of enough of a
• 45:25
  hook to keep us interested in those scenes.
• 45:26
  I recognize the actors in Revelation of the Dialects, but
• 45:30
  I also really was invested in the characters in that again, it
• 45:35
  it it's it's a much more interesting script though
• 45:37
  Revelation of the Dialects and by what's the difference because
• 45:40
  they're only a year. I mean say was say was on
• 45:43
  holiday when he writes Revelation, the Daleks, he's
• 45:45
  been reading even in war, he's been working with Robert Holmes.
• 45:50
  Maybe Philip Martin is an influence there because if you
• 45:52
  go back to if you, if you look at gangsters, which in its
• 45:56
  second season becomes really what we would now call post
• 45:59
  moderns. So Martin I think is clearly
• 46:02
  influenced by Dennis Potter or he's actually know maybe he's
• 46:06
  looking forward to where Popper will go with the singing
• 46:09
  detector which is a couple of years after this.
• 46:11
  But that idea of watching and we so we are put in the same
• 46:16
  position as some of those characters because they are
• 46:18
  watching this unfold and we are watching them watching it
• 46:21
  unfold. And so that type of layer,
• 46:23
  they're just more intelligent scripts than this.
• 46:25
  This kind of feels like a a by the numbers Doctor Who episode.
• 46:29
  And to wait to make it not by the numbers is to make it really
• 46:32
  violent and really unpleasant and so to not really make a
• 46:35
  Doctor Who. And then we got a lot of info
• 46:36
  dump here from Litton. It's interesting because Litton
• 46:38
  feels the same narrative function in the sack of the side
• 46:41
  men and what's clearly a scene that Levine is heavily involved
• 46:43
  with that terrible scene when they're in that cupboard on the
• 46:47
  TARDIS where? He explains.
• 46:50
  And in Tomb of the Sidemen next year, That's almost now.
• 46:57
  Attack of Sign is a much better story and it's got a much better
• 46:59
  plot line. And if you didn't have to try
• 47:01
  and be a sequence to two stories and no one could really remember
• 47:04
  and no one had seen and if you cut that scene out, it would be
• 47:07
  much, much better. It's a Dave was having some type
• 47:13
  of seizure though forever open. I mean, do you remember my
• 47:17
  nanny, Steptoe? What's that?
• 47:19
  You remember my nanny Steptoe, of course.
• 47:20
  You do. What's she got to do, Dave Ross?
• 47:24
  I was going to say. She wrapped up, looking a bit
• 47:28
  loud. Dave Ross in all days.
• 47:31
  Every time I see that mask, I just call you.
• 47:36
  I thought you were going to say about your your nanny Ford and
• 47:40
  Lincoln to death, Yeah. Personality certainly, yeah.
• 47:45
  Isn't it, mate? You know, please.
• 47:48
  A lot. The darkest.
• 47:50
  Joke ever about my nanny Ford is the her song when her coughing
• 47:55
  came out and the funeral was my heart will go on and many people
• 47:58
  would say she never had one and she died of a heart attack.
• 48:01
  I mean there was too much irony going on.
• 48:03
  I was sitting in the front row, laughing my head off.
• 48:06
  I mean. That, that, that's what
• 48:07
  Revelation of the Darlings, of course, is that level of humor.
• 48:10
  Whereas this has AI mean what? Say what had read the loved one
• 48:16
  on holiday? He tells all another cigarette
• 48:18
  there, squatty, not doing any work.
• 48:20
  It's it's portrayal of the military is fascinating this
• 48:23
  because it's kind of enthralled to this kind of Mechismo ISM and
• 48:27
  you know we're after the Falklands War at this point And
• 48:31
  so how you portray the military, it's really militaristic this
• 48:34
  season if you if you think about how often four of the stories
• 48:38
  are all military and if if the awakened have done properly,
• 48:42
  that would have been about the civil war properly as well.
• 48:44
  So what you're left with them really, is Planet of Fire and
• 48:49
  Twin Dilemma, which I love, but it's a terrible piece of
• 48:53
  television. But it does have that motif of
• 48:55
  watching as well, of course. Oh, you know, I haven't done the
• 48:58
  twin. We may have to reconvene.
• 49:02
  No way you end that season with the twin dilemma.
• 49:06
  If you end with the K zone design, you shouldn't be in ATV
• 49:09
  production of all the baffling. Decisions he ever made,
• 49:12
  actually, do you remember that quote?
• 49:13
  He said. This is the story they'll all
• 49:15
  Remember Me for. And not what you think but then
• 49:19
  say what is meant to rewritten large chunks of that as well
• 49:22
  because I mean that's the other thing Anthony Stevens I think
• 49:25
  they essentially dug up. He's about 200 when he got that.
• 49:30
  Parents Dudley. It's these really old people.
• 49:35
  I I love Pip and Jane Baker. But they might as well if he's a
• 49:38
  Ouija board to try and contact them from beyond the grave.
• 49:40
  Their idea about how to television?
• 49:43
  They're. They're like the confident ones
• 49:45
  because you go back. That's the other issue of
• 49:47
  course. Who can really write this type?
• 49:48
  Where is the type of background that they can develop this, this
• 49:52
  TV writing skills Because a lot of the major figures who come up
• 49:56
  who are there say Terrance Dicks or Terry Nation subsequently
• 50:01
  Robert host. They're all working for those
• 50:03
  ITC things, you know, The Avengers and like Man, A
• 50:07
  Suitcase Nation ends up as he's the last script editor for For
• 50:11
  the Own in their craft. Haven't they?
• 50:14
  They are Malcolm Hulk. I don't know where you get those
• 50:17
  figures, where where they're developing that type of work at
• 50:20
  this point, and that's really starting to have an impact.
• 50:22
  Obviously they're looking for a big sci-fi writer and they get
• 50:25
  Christopher Priest and then they piss him off and he sues them
• 50:28
  twice. Because he he got to be burned,
• 50:33
  Paul. He's.
• 50:33
  Been cutting his teeth on space 1999, doesn't he?
• 50:37
  Didn't he admit worries? The Deep was just a Space 1999
• 50:39
  script that he rewrote. I would believe it.
• 50:43
  I mean, I like, I like Keeper tracking Arc Infinity.
• 50:47
  Obviously. Everybody knows arc Infinity is
• 50:49
  is awful, and the only way to watch it is to go to Amsterdam,
• 50:52
  ingest a large amount of drugs and watch it with a whore.
• 50:56
  And that's the way to watch Arkham Infinity.
• 50:59
  Or bear with me, was you OK? I remember.
• 51:02
  Bits of it there, I remember. I remember I thought it was
• 51:04
  Aragon, but it was actually you doing the bump and grind there.
• 51:08
  Also, we need to learn little that the Daleks aren't as good
• 51:11
  as they were and they were beaten by, I don't know, disco
• 51:15
  androids. Why is he?
• 51:17
  Clinging on to this station. What's I mean?
• 51:21
  I don't understand what benefit that would be to him, not just
• 51:24
  go with them. No, because it also highlights
• 51:27
  the massive problem around the nature of the time corridor,
• 51:30
  Because it has to be a space corridor as well, because
• 51:33
  there's nothing. This is just above Earth.
• 51:35
  But why? Why does it have to be a time
• 51:38
  corridor? Why?
• 51:39
  If they? This is in like the future,
• 51:41
  isn't it? It's in 90 years after Destiny
• 51:42
  dies. We don't know where that is
• 51:43
  anyway. So let's say it's 4000 or
• 51:45
  40,000, It doesn't really matter.
• 51:48
  Why does the time corridor have to spit people out into 1984?
• 51:52
  Because that's what it means. The.
• 51:58
  Daleks are defeated by the vellums, and they've broken up
• 52:01
  into small groups to avoid infection, which we've all lived
• 52:05
  through. The pandemic.
• 52:05
  We know that you should keep away.
• 52:07
  The Daleks should be wearing masks.
• 52:08
  I Look, here's some urban crime here.
• 52:11
  The phone's been disconnected. No graffiti.
• 52:13
  You'll know. So it's very different to the
• 52:15
  phone box and the young ones, which were a couple of years
• 52:17
  earlier, which is covered in horrifically racist graffiti,
• 52:19
  which now has been blocked out on repeats on UK gold.
• 52:23
  But where was it going with that?
• 52:24
  Yeah, there's no need for this to happen.
• 52:29
  Anything to do with 1984 whatsoever?
• 52:33
  There's no need for that time tunnel to dump people like 1984.
• 52:36
  And why would you hide the virus in 1984?
• 52:38
  What is the point of doing that? But this group of Daleks group
• 52:41
  of people, they're a group of dice that have to separate from
• 52:44
  the main group. And yet this group are able to
• 52:46
  rescue Davros, try and cure the Movellen virus, assassinate the
• 52:52
  High Council Ganfur and take over the Earth.
• 52:54
  So they're not. Well, it's very.
• 52:57
  I mean, it's interesting if you look at how this runs from
• 53:03
  Frontiers and then run straight into Planet of Fire, it all has
• 53:06
  to taken in the space of three days the three stories.
• 53:10
  He's no wonder he. Knackered at the end of it,
• 53:13
  didn't he? I can't take anymore because
• 53:16
  he's not, he's not the strongest man we had alien by.
• 53:19
  This point, Yeah, of course we have.
• 53:21
  They're doing the alien thing here with a cat.
• 53:22
  Oh my. Yeah, absolutely.
• 53:24
  Yeah, yeah, I mean alien. Alien.
• 53:26
  Star Wars has haunted Doctor Who and now Alien.
• 53:29
  So there he is, Leslie Grantham. This is where he'll get the
• 53:34
  EastEnders gig on the back of this one, because Matthew
• 53:36
  Robinson will will suggest him to Julia Smith, another Doctor
• 53:39
  Who alumnus. Of course.
• 53:42
  Why was the army called in? Did they explain that because
• 53:45
  they they they bomb disposal unit.
• 53:47
  Oh, OK all. Right.
• 53:51
  I'm surprised it wasn't unit. You know it's.
• 53:54
  It wasn't Unit, I suppose they they've had unit back for five
• 54:00
  doctors, hadn't they? Because then you're going to
• 54:04
  you. Who are you going to kill?
• 54:05
  Because left for Stewart has left.
• 54:06
  We already know that as well. Morgan Undead is driven coaching
• 54:10
  horses through continuity. Benton is selling cars, isn't
• 54:15
  he? Or something weird, if that's to
• 54:18
  be believed. So you end up essentially with
• 54:20
  some randoms like in Android Invasion and See Mother from The
• 54:25
  Avengers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 54:28
  Yeah, so this whole sequence here, right?
• 54:30
  This. This this long exposition dump
• 54:32
  about what's been happening since Destiny and the Daleks.
• 54:35
  Yeah, I'm just going to come back to that point again because
• 54:37
  I think this is the sort of thing that 10 year old geeks at
• 54:40
  the time were getting very hard about.
• 54:42
  But the general audience are going, what are I talking about?
• 54:45
  Like it's it's awful. It's the you can.
• 54:49
  It's completely like fan pandering.
• 54:51
  Though, isn't it? Seeds of their destruction are
• 54:54
  being built in this season and it comes to it comes to a price
• 54:58
  in 22. I mean 22 is a better season I
• 55:00
  think than than 22 is a better season than 20, it's better than
• 55:07
  a lot of 21. But 21 does a frontiers and it
• 55:11
  does have Case and Rosani. There was an interesting point
• 55:14
  my years ago in DW and I think it must be the when they did the
• 55:18
  whole of polls in 2000. And nine go on.
• 55:24
  Must be 10, actually, because I think they were doing the
• 55:27
  because my son's are kind of obsessed with Doctor Who as an
• 55:30
  idea on the living. Experience.
• 55:35
  They've been digging out old magazines and mine from Dad's
• 55:37
  loft and that was one that came out.
• 55:39
  Kay's Angels only topped the pole that, but they make the
• 55:42
  point as a one off. It's a really interesting
• 55:45
  experiment, but to then try and produce a season based around
• 55:49
  that kind of dark, militaristic, death soaked world is a real
• 55:55
  mistake. But I think they missed the
• 55:58
  point. And the point is that that's
• 56:00
  what this season is doing as well.
• 56:02
  The. Difference is that Colin Baker
• 56:05
  is funnier but weirdly seems to be part of that world.
• 56:10
  I mean, I think there was if they were making Doctor Who in
• 56:13
  that way at that point, which they weren't, there's there's an
• 56:15
  interesting possibility that you.
• 56:18
  Make season 21 like this because, and it's the point at
• 56:23
  the end of both Warriors of the and this.
• 56:24
  And again it's a word repeating himself.
• 56:26
  The Doctor goes the master ship in another way.
• 56:28
  But what you would do is you build it.
• 56:30
  The season that this Doctor Who seemed the most specific has to
• 56:34
  get his hands dirty more often than usual and gets involved in
• 56:37
  these really violent scenarios. And so that when he regenerates
• 56:39
  at the end of it, the new Doctor then goes, fuck it, that's what
• 56:43
  I'm going to. Do from now on.
• 56:44
  And that would explain some of the issues around Colin Baker
• 56:49
  much better than that. Or he's just like Mr. Darcy in
• 56:51
  Pride and Prejudice. No, he's not.
• 56:53
  You're not going to report that big secret.
• 56:55
  This is better. And then of course, you get
• 56:56
  something similar to what you had in Doctor Who Unbound, maybe
• 57:00
  with David David Collins. Would make more sense of the
• 57:07
  appearance of the of the Valley Yard.
• 57:09
  That's a possible future, the Doctor.
• 57:11
  If you carry along this route now, they're not thinking in
• 57:13
  those terms and that just shine. It would make more sense
• 57:17
  classically writing a more interesting.
• 57:18
  Couple of seasons there, but I always fight with Davison
• 57:21
  especially in 21 is like he he seems like he's just there
• 57:26
  trying to stand in front of a hurricane of death and just
• 57:29
  looks pathetic, a bit sad. You know I I.
• 57:34
  I think, I think Davidson is really good and yet you can see,
• 57:37
  yeah. It's what he's working with and
• 57:40
  all the surrounding material. I mean this is this is kind of
• 57:42
  makes me think about what's what's the first Dalek story
• 57:46
  with Jodie Whittaker. Oh, resolution.
• 57:49
  I mean that that that's a brilliant, that's a brilliant
• 57:52
  bit of kit by and large, apart from that really Labour joke
• 57:54
  with the family on the phones at Christmas and oh jeez, Oh yeah.
• 57:59
  Well, I do. Do you know what people say?
• 58:01
  You can't do comedy that bit where shares the confrontation
• 58:03
  with the Dalek and then all the music bills and then she just
• 58:05
  goes, wait a minute, how Long's a row?
• 58:08
  I don't think I've laughed so much at the new series That
• 58:10
  Line. And there's the Doctor.
• 58:12
  Having having he looked at the gun that like he'd know us to
• 58:15
  use it, then shoots the diet and then hands it to Chloe thingy
• 58:18
  out of play school at the end. It would be hot from having
• 58:21
  shockers, so now she's burnt her hand.
• 58:23
  It's just it's just kind of they're thinking.
• 58:25
  I see how she shoots out there though.
• 58:27
  I swear I didn't see that go off.
• 58:30
  I mean if it if it didn't, I don't know what's killed the
• 58:35
  Dalek. If it does then all the fanboys
• 58:37
  who who wank themselves dry and anger at Matt Smith shooting a
• 58:40
  gun in season five in the trailer.
• 58:43
  Lest we forget the brilliant trailer for season five when he
• 58:46
  shoots the gun when we know when we watch the episode he's
• 58:49
  shooting at the ground he globe. A lot of people did lose their
• 58:51
  mind. The Doctor doesn't use guns.
• 58:53
  Well, you've obviously not seen Earth Shot when he's waving that
• 58:56
  gun around and it's on the front of the book, for crying out
• 58:58
  loud, man. I mean, I could go on Season 2.
• 59:02
  He's been carrying guns for ages.
• 59:04
  Day of the Daleks, we. Don't know.
• 59:07
  There's a terrible line there. We don't know about what poison
• 59:10
  they might have put into, but she's got glasses, so we believe
• 59:13
  that she's a proper scientist. I don't believe it for a.
• 59:16
  Second oh, where are they going? Off they go.
• 59:20
  Off into TARDIS. I mean, the way that shot.
• 59:23
  Someone's meant to be following them.
• 59:24
  Surely we're the policemen. Aren't they meant to appear
• 59:26
  this? Oh, there you go.
• 59:26
  Yeah, that's right. You know you're wrong about the
• 59:28
  costume, I don't think. Bews can even walk convincingly
• 59:32
  in that costume towards the TARDIS there.
• 59:35
  Might have shot himself. It's very.
• 59:37
  Possible to the deaths in the fan of, says the texted that
• 59:41
  someone else has died. So happy days.
• 59:43
  And that's now. That's now 4 deaths in a month
• 59:46
  in our family. But I feel like I'm living in
• 59:49
  resurrection of the dialects. You sure, Eric say?
• 59:52
  Wouldn't scripting your life do, you know, I've got to say to you
• 59:56
  because on the season 22 Blu-ray set, there's an interview with
• 1:00:01
  Michael Grade. OK.
• 1:00:03
  And I think they're looking to shame him to say, you know, why
• 1:00:06
  did you cancel Doctor Who? And they throw that question to
• 1:00:09
  it. Matthew Sweet is too intelligent
• 1:00:11
  to ask that sort of a question. But he says, you know, what was
• 1:00:13
  your issue with Doctor Who? And he goes, did you watch it?
• 1:00:16
  He goes, it was, it was cheap because we weren't giving it
• 1:00:19
  enough money. It wasn't clever, it wasn't
• 1:00:21
  funny, he goes. And what they tried to do was
• 1:00:24
  inject this sort of really horrible level of violence that
• 1:00:29
  made it very cheap and unpleasant to watch.
• 1:00:33
  And he went, you know, do you think it was a good use of the
• 1:00:36
  taxpayers money? And he's just utterly unfazed
• 1:00:41
  and. And what is that criticism?
• 1:00:42
  And I don't think you know what people point at grade and say
• 1:00:45
  he's the the ultimate enemy. I'm not sure he was wrong.
• 1:00:47
  You know, I think grade was the problem.
• 1:00:50
  I think Jonathan Powell was a bigger issue because of course
• 1:00:53
  Pow Powell works on Tinker Tailor Soldier, Spy with
• 1:00:57
  obviously grim Wade and and Tony Verga, and he was used to
• 1:00:59
  working on that type of prestige drama.
• 1:01:02
  Because he does say, I think on the DVD extras for Survival,
• 1:01:08
  that I just wish Jonathan would go away and take his show with
• 1:01:11
  him. So I think I mean because Grey
• 1:01:13
  comes from ITV. And there's that argument that
• 1:01:18
  it's revenge. That they they they, he could
• 1:01:20
  never beat Doctor Who when he was trying to put programs up
• 1:01:23
  against it when he was working on ITV.
• 1:01:25
  There's the really unpleasant rumour about the personal
• 1:01:28
  animosity between himself and Colin Baker over that
• 1:01:31
  relationship. But I don't know what did
• 1:01:34
  Matthew Sweet. I mean I know Matthew Sweet and
• 1:01:37
  we've he's he's professional to a fault.
• 1:01:40
  You know, I was watching his. Interview with Eric Sayward on
• 1:01:44
  YouTube the other day about his novelization of this and say
• 1:01:49
  what comes up quite well in it actually.
• 1:01:51
  I saw Say what? Did you read it though?
• 1:01:54
  I know it's terrible, isn't? It just off.
• 1:01:58
  There's a sequence in the middle of the book in this bit where
• 1:02:00
  the Doctor goes off in the TARDIS in the middle of the
• 1:02:02
  book, and there's like a whole chapter where we explore the
• 1:02:05
  TARDIS and he goes to the swimming pool and all of it.
• 1:02:07
  Like what is going on here? I mean?
• 1:02:11
  I mean, Say was an interesting figure.
• 1:02:14
  It's telling, of course, that he never works in British
• 1:02:16
  television again after he leaves Doctor Who.
• 1:02:20
  And that shows you there's loyalty towards John Nathan
• 1:02:23
  Turner in the industry and a sense of you don't do what he
• 1:02:26
  did. Maybe the interview down the
• 1:02:28
  line, Here's this is rubbish now.
• 1:02:30
  I mean, this business about these soldiers, there's no time
• 1:02:37
  for them. They've just been murdered in
• 1:02:39
  the previous scene. There's given we know how long
• 1:02:41
  it. Takes to do the replica business
• 1:02:44
  because we watch the Doctor in tedious detail and get the
• 1:02:46
  vibratory flashback in. There's no time for those
• 1:02:48
  soldiers to have been replaced because of this convoluted idea
• 1:02:54
  that you have to download their memories.
• 1:02:55
  It makes no sense whatsoever. The idea of replicants in places
• 1:02:59
  of power on Earth is quite interesting, but it's an autumn
• 1:03:03
  story. It's not this story at all.
• 1:03:05
  And why do they need them? Why?
• 1:03:08
  Why not just brainwash the original?
• 1:03:10
  Why bother with the replicants? He's never explained what they
• 1:03:12
  gained by that. And certainly if they'd copied
• 1:03:15
  Archer, they would know he didn't have the gun belt.
• 1:03:18
  So the whole shtick around that he's got the gun belt even?
• 1:03:23
  Though he's given it to the doctor and.
• 1:03:24
  That's how they know it's it's not the actual archery, It's
• 1:03:27
  rubbish. I mean, what, what?
• 1:03:28
  What? What's clear is that.
• 1:03:30
  It's not the same person because of how he's acting, because he's
• 1:03:33
  quite avuncular and friendly and now he's not.
• 1:03:35
  I mean it's just it's just awful and it's that's the script.
• 1:03:39
  So we're approaching, we're approaching the end of episode
• 1:03:41
  one here. Yeah.
• 1:03:41
  So tell me, whose story are we supposed to be following here?
• 1:03:46
  Like what? What is the central narrative of
• 1:03:50
  resurrection? Of the Daleks this point.
• 1:03:53
  It's the Daleks, one in a cure for the plague.
• 1:03:56
  That's what. That's what you would cling on
• 1:03:58
  to in that central section. Why is the attack happened?
• 1:04:02
  It's because they want d'avros. Why do they want D'avros?
• 1:04:04
  It's because he has to cure the the plague.
• 1:04:06
  Now there's a big problem with that plague as to what he's
• 1:04:09
  actually attacking, as we'll see in the second part, because it's
• 1:04:11
  not quite clear. Is it attacking the card or is
• 1:04:14
  it attacking the casing? But if.
• 1:04:17
  That if, that is, if that is the main driver of this story, then
• 1:04:20
  the Doctor hasn't been involved in that at all.
• 1:04:23
  He has no, no place here. And here we come.
• 1:04:26
  What's meant to be the big reveal?
• 1:04:27
  This is what you sat before he 5 minutes for.
• 1:04:30
  Where's he going? He's going to get a gun.
• 1:04:33
  Not one of the weird stick things, but he's got a machine
• 1:04:37
  gun. But it's not the type of machine
• 1:04:38
  gun that the police are using. So why is it just dumped there?
• 1:04:42
  It's it's another unexplained mystery.
• 1:04:48
  Oh, it's such an overblown line as I serve the Daleks.
• 1:04:51
  I am a Dalek agent, I mean. Tap, tap.
• 1:04:56
  Wouldn't Lawrence Miles in about time argue that he's he was
• 1:05:01
  waiting to be? Cast in an ITVI think TBS
• 1:05:04
  adaptation of Dan Dare and he was going to play Digby along
• 1:05:08
  with Simon Williams but it went into Wright's help and of course
• 1:05:11
  there is a a a new version in I think 2000 and eight 2008 D of.
• 1:05:20
  Dan Dare or is it 2000 AD where it's a Saturn of Thatcherism.
• 1:05:23
  The Thatcher is working for the ME Con and then Dan Dare is
• 1:05:26
  raped by the ME Con. It's particularly unpleasant
• 1:05:30
  scene. I wonder if that's what stops
• 1:05:32
  that TV adaptation that the viewers is kind of kicking
• 1:05:35
  around with no work. He'd been in, he had been, as I
• 1:05:40
  think I've already said, in in in Jack and Orry the the year
• 1:05:44
  before, and so Rudolenska. And you do wonder they just
• 1:05:48
  trawling around BBC properties looking for people because this.
• 1:05:52
  These aren't big names. I mean Colt Morris, Colvin is,
• 1:05:56
  is is the biggest name. I think viewers is kind of who
• 1:05:59
  I'd forgotten who he was. I just think about the rest of
• 1:06:02
  the seasons, Ingrid. Pier faces rather than stars.
• 1:06:07
  Ingrid Pitt was, I suppose, a. A big name, and then he's cast
• 1:06:10
  completely against type. And of course, there's that
• 1:06:13
  business with the person who mentally missed a range is
• 1:06:17
  murdered just before I start shooting Frontiers.
• 1:06:21
  Yeah, but you know, half the time, you know, we've we've sort
• 1:06:23
  of talked a lot about the era. Half the time, you know, without
• 1:06:26
  JN TS, interesting casting choices.
• 1:06:29
  I've got nothing to cling on to at all, you know, I mean.
• 1:06:33
  When they work, they work. But sometimes they don't work, I
• 1:06:36
  mean. It's interesting.
• 1:06:37
  Bonnie Langford, that's clear the type of stunt casting.
• 1:06:40
  And yet now she's a national treasure and people are very
• 1:06:42
  excited that she's coming back in the new season.
• 1:06:45
  And I know I I did kind of jokingly say that if you were
• 1:06:51
  going to bring back a figure from the past who the general
• 1:06:54
  public would recognize, you wouldn't bring back Tegan, you'd
• 1:06:56
  bring back Bonnie Langford and Tada.
• 1:06:58
  Now she is back. I mean, she's an all round
• 1:07:00
  performer at the time. Of course, fandom hated her.
• 1:07:04
  And that's an interesting mirror in the two responses.
• 1:07:07
  Would you care to drop another name then?
• 1:07:09
  And maybe they'll they'll appear in the series coming up, so I
• 1:07:12
  don't know. Who can I go?
• 1:07:14
  I don't know. Who do we want in Dots?
• 1:07:15
  Who, Phoebe? Will a bridge mention her name?
• 1:07:19
  Yeah, Phoebe will a bridge. Or let's Hayley Atwell let's
• 1:07:22
  let's let's go, let's go there or let's think.
• 1:07:25
  I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:07:26
  I mean it it it's it'd be fascinating to see what they're
• 1:07:29
  going to do. I'll, I want to say something
• 1:07:31
  positive about Chris Chipnall. Yeah, I mean.
• 1:07:35
  I I wasn't sure about Chip. Null getting that gig I think
• 1:07:39
  he's, I think he seems to be a better overall showrunner than
• 1:07:42
  Moffett. But I think Moffett's problem
• 1:07:44
  comes from that there's no there's there's kind of it's a
• 1:07:47
  different other executive producer pretty much every
• 1:07:50
  season with it. Doctor Who knew who's imperial
• 1:07:53
  phase is once you get over the first block.
• 1:07:56
  So when you go from say Dalek through to journey's end.
• 1:08:01
  And if you look you pretty much just consistently as to who's
• 1:08:04
  producing it and kind of dropping in and out, there's a
• 1:08:08
  confidence to it, isn't there And if you listen to them on.
• 1:08:11
  The on the on the commentaries on particularly season 2 season
• 1:08:16
  one is is awkward now because that couldn't have walked away.
• 1:08:20
  John Barrowman is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
• 1:08:22
  But because all the bits about Barrowman, you kind of go, I
• 1:08:24
  can't release this. But Season 2, they there's a
• 1:08:26
  there's a swaggering of Earth to that and you don't don't get
• 1:08:29
  that impression with some of Moffett's stuff in a way that
• 1:08:32
  Chipnall does. Well, even what you said about
• 1:08:36
  say we'd hear about, you know, how do you script edit the
• 1:08:39
  script editor. I always feel like that's the
• 1:08:41
  problem with Moffett's time because I've recently watched
• 1:08:43
  Press Gang, OK. And I think that's that's the
• 1:08:47
  best that Moffett has produced in terms of writing.
• 1:08:50
  Because it's all the smarts without the premise that you can
• 1:08:53
  go anywhere and do anything. And and that you're God of the
• 1:08:57
  show, which he isn't Doctor Who and he just goes to an extreme
• 1:09:01
  because he can do anything. He does do anything and there's
• 1:09:03
  no one slapping on the wrist going, Stephen, should you be
• 1:09:06
  doing that? Really let's just tone it down a
• 1:09:08
  bit. But sorry, that's not what where
• 1:09:10
  I was going. Chippers in Spy Fall, I played
• 1:09:14
  out an episode with lots of diversions and introduced a
• 1:09:17
  character who was very likeable, who at the climax of the episode
• 1:09:22
  turned out to be a massive villain.
• 1:09:24
  And I jumped out on my seat and screamed at the telly.
• 1:09:27
  It was a fantastic moment. Will it work there?
• 1:09:31
  Why doesn't it work here? I mean, I I.
• 1:09:34
  I see the actress. I mean, I don't like Spy 4,
• 1:09:36
  actually. I need to watch it again.
• 1:09:38
  I don't really understand it, but I think Sasha Duan is
• 1:09:40
  amazing as the master. I think Michel Gomez is amazing
• 1:09:44
  as Missy as well. I think.
• 1:09:47
  I don't really like John SIM in when he turns up first.
• 1:09:52
  I think when he comes back in End of Time, the scene where he
• 1:09:55
  eats that chicken and there's the and tenant, it's like a
• 1:10:00
  piece of. Stage drum and it's it's
• 1:10:04
  amazing. I think Jacobi is very good for
• 1:10:07
  the time that we see. But I think I think Michel goes
• 1:10:09
  he's amazing but such as the one as that kind of unhinged version
• 1:10:12
  of the Master. He's dangerous the way that
• 1:10:14
  Missy is at the end of season eight when she kills Osgood.
• 1:10:19
  I I think he was brilliant. Rodney Bue is saying I'll go.
• 1:10:22
  I'm a Dalek agent, you know, it doesn't really work.
• 1:10:28
  On that note, shall we skip into episode two?
• 1:10:33
  Yeah, we. Must scoop into it.
• 1:10:34
  I mean he's been running. I'll.
• 1:10:36
  I'll cut the episode there, Bill My.