Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 5: Newborn photography with Kelly Brown; hands on with Nikon Z f, Panasonic G9 II and Fujifilm GFX 100 II with Angela Nicholson

Transcript

5: Newborn photography with Kelly Brown; hands on with Nikon Z f, Panasonic G9 II and Fujifilm GFX 100 II with Angela Nicholson · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:11
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to The Photography and Video Show Podcast.
• 0:14
  David McClelland: I'm David McClelland.
• 0:15
  David McClelland: I'm your host and this month we're talking to photographer Kelly Brown about her journey specializing in newborn and baby portraiture as well as scaling her business so successfully.
• 0:30
  Kelly Brown: So I said to my husband, I'm going to photograph babies, and he said, you're crazy, there's no money in babies, and I was like, oh, okay.
• 0:37
  Kelly Brown: And then I said to the wedding photographer that I worked for that, I have to hand my resignation in.
• 0:41
  Kelly Brown: And he's like, what are you gonna do?
• 0:42
  Kelly Brown: And I said, well, I'm gonna photograph babies.
• 0:44
  Kelly Brown: And he He said, it's a fad.
• 0:46
  Kelly Brown: It won't last.
• 0:47
  Kelly Brown: And I was like, okay, so I had like two people tell me that this wasn't going to work.
• 0:51
  Kelly Brown: And I think that gave me a little determination to push forward.
• 0:56
  Kelly Brown: And I proved both of them wrong.
• 1:01
  David McClelland: Plus we take a look at Nikon's new retro full-frame camera, the Z f, we hit on some medium format and micro- four- thirds releases from Fujifilm and Panasonic, and look forward to an in-person meetup Joining us this month is photographer, journalist, Camera Jabber, co- founder, SheClicks founder and host of the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast, Angela Nicholson.
• 1:25
  David McClelland: Hello Ange.
• 1:26
  David McClelland: How's it going?
• 1:27
  Angela Nicholson: I'm very well, thank you.
• 1:28
  Angela Nicholson: It's been, uh, a busy few weeks, but lots of fun.
• 1:31
  David McClelland: Yes, it is that kind of autumn season where there seems to be a good deal of launches, lots of news, and I know you've been going out and about to press events, and so on, getting hands on lots of gear over the last few weeks.
• 1:44
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah, it's been, it's been a crazy busy time, but it's always exciting, you know, I am a bit of a gear freak.
• 1:49
  Angela Nicholson: I do like to get my hands onto new cameras and imagine what they can do and, do a bit of testing So, yeah, it's been great.
• 1:55
  David McClelland: Well, let's, go into some of your hands on stuff in just a moment, because we want to touch on one of the big launches over the last few weeks, which of course has been the Nikon ZF.
• 2:04
  David McClelland: But first, for anyone who maybe hasn't...
• 2:07
  David McClelland: rubbed shoulders with you at a photography event or hasn't come across Camera Jabber or She Clicks could you just fill us in please?
• 2:15
  Angela Nicholson: Okay.
• 2:15
  Angela Nicholson: I used to be at one point I was Amateur Photographer's, technical editor, then I moved to Future Publishing where I was the head of testing there, which, I think is filled by variety of people these days, that role.
• 2:25
  Angela Nicholson: in 2016 I set up a Camera Jabber with two colleagues.
• 2:30
  Angela Nicholson: And that is a website for photographers with news reviews, tips and techniques.
• 2:34
  Angela Nicholson: And my Primary role with that is the same as it's been since I started in the photographic industry, really, which is reviewing camera kits, cameras specifically and lenses.
• 2:44
  Angela Nicholson: And, of course, I can't help but get hold of a few accessories and test those as well, because they're always really, really interesting.
• 2:50
  Angela Nicholson: in 2018, I launched SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers.
• 2:55
  Angela Nicholson: And that primarily runs through Facebook.
• 2:57
  Angela Nicholson: We have a Facebook group with over 12, 000 members.
• 3:01
  Angela Nicholson: And it's, uh, it's exciting.
• 3:02
  Angela Nicholson: It's fun.
• 3:03
  Angela Nicholson: We, sort of have a informative vibe, but it's always very, very friendly.
• 3:07
  Angela Nicholson: it's educational and we have.
• 3:09
  Angela Nicholson: Meetups where we have lots of fun and also we have, uh, free webinars and as you say, recently launched, uh, the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast, which has been really exciting.
• 3:18
  David McClelland: You mentioned meetups there and later on in the show we're going to be having a quick chat about a Photography and Video Show and SheClicks meetup that will be taking place later in October, about two or three weeks away, as we record right now.
• 3:33
  David McClelland: But, let us dive first of all into some of this month's news, and, well, much rumoured finally revealed the Nikon ZF has promised classic design with modern features, and you've had some hands on time with this.
• 3:49
  David McClelland: What have you made of it?
• 3:51
  Angela Nicholson: Well, my first impression of it is, you know, sometimes somebody puts a camera down in front of you and you look at it and you instantly know whether you want to pick it up or not.
• 3:59
  Angela Nicholson: And this was a camera that I wanted to pick up, you know, because it looks really nicely made, it looks solid and you want to feel whether that is backed up by the, you know, in your hands, the tactile experience and it is, yeah, it feels great, it looks great, it was nice to see that they've added a little bit of a grip on the front because previously with the APS C version, the ZF C, it hasn't got a grip so it's a bit, you know, it's flat fronted so it's um, It doesn't feel as secure in your hand.
• 4:27
  Angela Nicholson: And if you imagine scaling up to a full frame camera, then it's a little bit bigger.
• 4:30
  Angela Nicholson: So just having that bit of grip really adds something.
• 4:33
  Angela Nicholson: And then, it's also apparently the dials on the top are made of brass.
• 4:37
  Angela Nicholson: And over time, you know, some of that black paint is going to rub off and you'll get a little bit of the brass coming through and a patina will build up.
• 4:43
  Angela Nicholson: And so you suddenly start to think, Oh, this could be, you know, it's a camera that at some point you're going to be able to put on a shelf with old film cameras and maybe not be able to tell that, but.
• 4:51
  Angela Nicholson: The difference from the front.
• 4:53
  David McClelland: Well on that, on that point then, for anyone who isn't familiar, who hasn't seen this, it is modeled on the iconic Nickon FM two, which is 40 years old, I think this year.
• 5:03
  David McClelland: I think it launched in 1983 or thereabouts, and it only came off the shelves in 2001.
• 5:09
  David McClelland: So that had a really good shelf life of its own accord, and this is a modern take on that but very very much in the kind of retro style you mentioned the ZFC which is the APS C version it's been out for what two three years or something like that.
• 5:24
  David McClelland: And this is the full frame version of it So it's it's got the classic retro styling, it's got and that lots of dials and controls on the fronts.
• 5:32
  David McClelland: But on the inside it is a really really capable competitive camera with many of the other cameras on the market right now, isn't it?
• 5:40
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah, it's very powerful.
• 5:41
  Angela Nicholson: I mean, for a start, it's got the same sensor as the Nikon Z6 II, which is 24.
• 5:46
  Angela Nicholson: 5 million pixels, which is a really nice sweet spot you know, it's a good size in terms of pixel count, but also you get, speed off processing, you know, because you haven't got massive file sizes, but it's paired with the XP seven processor, which is the same processor as in the Z nine and the Z eight.
• 6:03
  David McClelland: That's proper flagship stuff, isn't it?
• 6:06
  Angela Nicholson: exactly.
• 6:06
  Angela Nicholson: And it's got the same kind of focusing system as the Z eight.
• 6:10
  Angela Nicholson: So it means that, you know, you've got all the subject detection modes now.
• 6:13
  Angela Nicholson: So far, I've only used the camera in a sort of fairly gloomy restaurant.
• 6:17
  Angela Nicholson: so I've been able to direct it towards other journalists.
• 6:20
  Angela Nicholson: And I can tell you that the, human subject detection works very well.
• 6:24
  Angela Nicholson: I've yet to try it with animals and, and cars and things, but I'm, I am quietly confident that it will be able to deliver.
• 6:31
  Angela Nicholson: So the idea of combining such modern technology, with that retro styling is very, very appealing.
• 6:38
  David McClelland: So where does it fit into the lineup then?
• 6:41
  David McClelland: Because as you've touched on there, it's got elements of the Z662, the Z8, Z9 with that 24.
• 6:48
  David McClelland: 5 megapixel sensor, XP7 processing engine.
• 6:52
  David McClelland: But in terms of features, it's also got some, some new tricks up its sleeve.
• 6:57
  David McClelland: The pixel shift, for example.
• 6:59
  David McClelland: So For a Nikon photographer who maybe is looking to make the move to mirrorless and benefit from some of the capabilities that this mirrorless format brings, what kind of things should they be looking at to help them, grab onto whether they look at the ZF or whether they look at a, I say traditional in the loosest sense of the term, but the Z8 or Z9, for example,
• 7:20
  Angela Nicholson: Well, obviously price plays a huge, huge part in that.
• 7:24
  Angela Nicholson: And I mean, a lot of the talk at the moment is about the Z8 because it really is a phenomenal camera.
• 7:29
  Angela Nicholson: Um, but that's sort of, it's in the upper end of the, The price brackets, you know, I think it's reasonably priced for what it is, but it's, it's an expensive camera.
• 7:40
  Angela Nicholson: The Z, uh, F is a bit more affordably, affordably priced.
• 7:44
  Angela Nicholson: Um,
• 7:45
  David McClelland: 2, 300 including VAT, uh, UK money.
• 7:49
  David McClelland: Mmm,
• 7:50
  Angela Nicholson: So it's, you know, it's, it's a significant wedge of cash, but actually I think you're getting a lot of camera.
• 7:56
  Angela Nicholson: money.
• 7:56
  Angela Nicholson: But I think what you have to think about is how comfortable you are with those traditional controls.
• 8:01
  Angela Nicholson: Now, Nikon hasn't gone quite as far down the road as, say, Fujifilm because it doesn't have lenses with aperture rings.
• 8:09
  Angela Nicholson: Yes, you can set, you can adjust aperture using a ring on the lens, but it's not a dedicated ring.
• 8:15
  Angela Nicholson: So it's slightly different proposition.
• 8:18
  Angela Nicholson: Um, and you can still make adjustments using the command dial.
• 8:21
  Angela Nicholson: So if you're more comfortable with that, but if you're only going to go down that route, then it seems more sensible to go for a Z6 2 or Z7 2.
• 8:29
  Angela Nicholson: That said, The Z6 2 don't have the same sort of focusing capability with the subject detection as the ZF.
• 8:36
  Angela Nicholson: And that, for me, is quite a significant thing these days.
• 8:39
  Angela Nicholson: It's definitely the way the industry is going and it makes such a difference with wildlife, pet, human portraiture.
• 8:47
  David McClelland: Two things I do want to pick up on, uh, this pixel shift, it's difficult to say, this pixel shift capability that can create up to, I think, 96 megapixel images in camera.
• 9:00
  David McClelland: It's something we've seen on other cameras before.
• 9:02
  David McClelland: I don't know that we've seen it in Nikon cameras before, if I'm honest.
• 9:06
  David McClelland: And then the other thing I want to on is the media that it uses too.
• 9:11
  David McClelland: What have you got to tell us about those two?
• 9:13
  Angela Nicholson: Well, the pixel shift.
• 9:14
  Angela Nicholson: I mean, as you say, we have seen that elsewhere.
• 9:16
  Angela Nicholson: And for me, it makes more sense in the slightly lower resolution cameras, because suddenly, you know, if I can't see the point really of having it in 100 million pixel camera, because you've already got a massive pixel count and suddenly you're making 400 million pixels images.
• 9:31
  Angela Nicholson: But If you've got 24 million pixels, you know, being able to create 96 or nearly 100 million pixel images makes sense to me.
• 9:39
  Angela Nicholson: And I think that could be a really useful addition on certain occasions.
• 9:42
  Angela Nicholson: I need to test it properly yet.
• 9:44
  Angela Nicholson: You know, it's possible that there will be issues with things like, you know, if leaves in a landscape are moving, then sometimes you can get artifacts and stuff.
• 9:50
  Angela Nicholson: So that needs to be looked at.
• 9:52
  Angela Nicholson: But if you're a commercial photographer or, you know, you're doing, shooting a still life and for some reason you want a larger than normal image, then it could be very, very useful.
• 10:01
  David McClelland: And in terms of the media, departure from what I think I was certainly expecting inside a Nikon camera in this sort of range.
• 10:10
  Angela Nicholson: Yes, that is one where I think, you know, when, when I was at the briefing, um, that before the announcement, you know, it was one of those points where you stop typing and look up just to make sure you heard that right.
• 10:21
  Angela Nicholson: So for those who don't know, I mean, it has two memory card slots and one is the sort of what you'd expect SD type media, but the other one is micro SD and we're like, what?
• 10:31
  Angela Nicholson: And you normally associate a micro SD card with drones and action cameras like, you know, GoPro.
• 10:38
  Angela Nicholson: So to have one in a full frame, mirrorless camera from Nikon was a bit of a departure.
• 10:42
  Angela Nicholson: And I, I don't recall ever seeing one of those certainly in modern times, in a proper digital camera before.
• 10:48
  Angela Nicholson: and I think it's possibly a desire to keep the size of the camera down.
• 10:53
  Angela Nicholson: So they haven't gone for two SD cards.
• 10:55
  Angela Nicholson: but also recognizing that people who are paying 2, 000 usually want, or more, usually want two cards.
• 11:01
  Angela Nicholson: Um, so they, you know, they can back up their images.
• 11:04
  David McClelland: yeah.
• 11:05
  David McClelland: So in terms of the capabilities of the media, I mean, I was on a shoot only last week with a pair of Nikon Z5s, video, shooting just some very, very simple interviews, and it was XQD media that we used there.
• 11:19
  David McClelland: So, as we start looking Back almost towards sd, a micro sd, are there concerns that the media isn't gonna be able to handle, intense bursts of, footage, for example?
• 11:33
  David McClelland: Or is the fact that we've got a lower megapixel count here counter to that?
• 11:37
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah, I think it's the lower megapixel count that is gonna make the difference.
• 11:40
  Angela Nicholson: And of course we're not gonna be shooting eight K video.
• 11:43
  Angela Nicholson: Um, I did have a look, little look into, uh, uh, a while ago and I couldn't see any massive drawbacks to using a, a micro sd, but I think, you know, it's something I'll be looking at when I'm testing the camera a bit more thoroughly.
• 11:56
  David McClelland: And seven striking colourways as well.
• 11:59
  David McClelland: I was, uh, I was surprised when I saw that on the front page of the Nikon website.
• 12:03
  David McClelland: some bold colours that Nikon has chosen.
• 12:05
  David McClelland: Still very much within the palette, the retro palette if you like.
• 12:09
  David McClelland: But I, I'm absolutely a fan of those and I think we're eyeing the market for one of these cameras.
• 12:14
  David McClelland: As much as the black certainly has an appeal and will, age very nicely I'm sure.
• 12:19
  David McClelland: I'd be quite tempted to look at one of the other colors, So I, I, I applaud Nick on for making that bold move.
• 12:24
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah, it's interesting'cause I actually.
• 12:26
  Angela Nicholson: Put a question on she clicks in the Facebook group and asked which color people would go for.
• 12:30
  Angela Nicholson: And there was a lot of people who were really interested in seeing all the different colors.
• 12:35
  Angela Nicholson: And, you know, there was a few people said they would go for black.
• 12:38
  Angela Nicholson: But, you know, it was quite a variety of colors that were getting appeal.
• 12:41
  Angela Nicholson: I mean, personally, sort of my head says black because that's kind of got the longevity and, you know, it's kind of would fit right in.
• 12:48
  Angela Nicholson: But my heart goes for, I forget, I can't remember the technical term for it, but you know, the red,
• 12:53
  David McClelland: yes.
• 12:54
  David McClelland: It's a kind of very rich red,
• 12:55
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah, I really like that.
• 12:57
  Angela Nicholson: And, you know, I was thinking, well, I wear a lot of that kind of colour, maybe that, you know, that would be quite good.
• 13:01
  Angela Nicholson: But I also, there's a green one, I think it's olive green, which is very nice too.
• 13:06
  David McClelland: Yes.
• 13:07
  David McClelland: I like the kind of, blue, I dunno if that's a cobalt blue or something.
• 13:10
  David McClelland: It's a, a little bit more retro than that, but, uh, I think that's probably the one I would go with.
• 13:14
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah, that was receiving a lot of love in SheClicks.
• 13:16
  Angela Nicholson: But there was, yeah, and the orange.
• 13:18
  Angela Nicholson: A lot of people liked the orange as well, a bit of a splash of colour.
• 13:20
  Angela Nicholson: So, you know, there was quite a spread.
• 13:21
  Angela Nicholson: People appreciated all the colours and I wonder if actually, you know, people will find it very, very difficult to make a decision and therefore end up going for the black.
• 13:29
  Angela Nicholson: But, who knows?
• 13:30
  David McClelland: It's nice to have the choice anyway
• 13:32
  Angela Nicholson: Mm.
• 13:32
  David McClelland: Not the only new news this month, let's touch quickly on one or two other things.
• 13:37
  David McClelland: Panasonic has announced the G9 Mark II.
• 13:41
  David McClelland: Two.
• 13:42
  David McClelland: and for context here, the G nine mark one I believe launched around about the same time as the GH five and the the GH series from Panasonic.
• 13:50
  David McClelland: very popular with videographers, still great stills cameras, but very popular with videographers.
• 13:55
  David McClelland: So I think the G nine was the more stills focused offering.
• 14:00
  David McClelland: Uh, the GH six came out maybe last year or something like that.
• 14:03
  David McClelland: Now, the G nine mark two has come out.
• 14:06
  David McClelland: Uh, what have you made of that Ange?
• 14:08
  Angela Nicholson: guess there's two key things for me.
• 14:11
  Angela Nicholson: One is that, you know, the jumping pixel count, so it's up to 25.
• 14:13
  Angela Nicholson: 2 million pixels, which is a significant jump, which I think, you know, makes it more attractive.
• 14:19
  Angela Nicholson: But the other thing is the inclusion of phase detection focusing.
• 14:23
  Angela Nicholson: Uh, you know, it's the first stills G series camera.
• 14:26
  Angela Nicholson: is it?
• 14:26
  Angela Nicholson: Actually, no.
• 14:27
  Angela Nicholson: In fact, I think it's the first G series camera to have face detection focusing from Panasonic.
• 14:32
  Angela Nicholson: And that makes a big difference.
• 14:33
  Angela Nicholson: You know, it's faster, it's more decisive.
• 14:36
  Angela Nicholson: And also we've got the subject detection.
• 14:38
  Angela Nicholson: Now we've had subject detection from Panasonic in the G9.
• 14:42
  Angela Nicholson: But if you were photographing animals, it just sort of said, there's the animal and it might roughly select its head, but it didn't target its eye.
• 14:49
  Angela Nicholson: So, you know, if I was photographing my dog, which I do quite a lot, the focusing could be on his nose, it could be on his head or it could be on his backside, depending on what orientation he was on and now it will detect his eyes, which is, is great.
• 15:00
  Angela Nicholson: And I was, I was lucky enough to go to the, the press briefing, which was held at a safari park, which on a.
• 15:07
  Angela Nicholson: Bright sunny day was looking very like a sort of verdant Africa to be honest because we were going around and you know suddenly some giraffes came over the hill and beautiful blue skies And the trees obviously all nibbled in the same way as they would be in Africa.
• 15:22
  Angela Nicholson: And it did a great job.
• 15:23
  Angela Nicholson: I mean, sometimes the, the, you know, the markings of, of giraffes, that confused the subject detection in terms of getting the eye a little bit sometimes, but there were other animals where it was straight on.
• 15:33
  Angela Nicholson: And the great thing about subject detection is, of course, that the more images that are analysed, the better it becomes.
• 15:40
  Angela Nicholson: So over time, you know, as firmware updates come out, it gets better and better, and I think it's already pretty good.
• 15:45
  Angela Nicholson: So, you know, that's that's an exciting development, I think, from Panasonic.
• 15:49
  David McClelland: The joy of machine learning and machine learning AI, obviously something the whole industry has been talking about.
• 15:54
  David McClelland: We've been chatting about a lot on this show over the last few months.
• 15:58
  David McClelland: G9 II price tag of about 1, 700 and that will be coming out, I believe, in November this year.
• 16:06
  David McClelland: Another launch, though, which is also very interesting, moving over to the Fujifilm side, is the GFX 100 Mark II.
• 16:16
  David McClelland: Lots of Mark IIs coming out at the moment.
• 16:18
  David McClelland: Where does this sit?
• 16:19
  David McClelland: Why is this important right now?
• 16:21
  Angela Nicholson: Well, it's Fujifilm's flagship medium format camera.
• 16:24
  Angela Nicholson: And by medium format camera, we mean that it's got a larger than full frame sensor.
• 16:28
  Angela Nicholson: And actually, it's 1.
• 16:30
  Angela Nicholson: 7 times the size of a full frame sensor.
• 16:32
  Angela Nicholson: It's got a pixel count of 102 million pixels, which is why I sort of alluded to it earlier.
• 16:38
  Angela Nicholson: Yes.
• 16:38
  Angela Nicholson: And it does have the pixel shift option as well.
• 16:42
  Angela Nicholson: So, you know, you can get absolutely massive files out of it.
• 16:45
  Angela Nicholson: But for many people, 102 is more than enough.
• 16:48
  Angela Nicholson: But again, you know, one of the great things about this camera is that it's, it's not necessarily all about the sensor, although that is a very significant part.
• 16:57
  Angela Nicholson: It's about the processor and the speed of processing.
• 17:00
  Angela Nicholson: And that has taken a major step up.
• 17:02
  Angela Nicholson: And it means that Again, we have the subject detection in a medium format camera, and so, you know, someone who's shooting a portrait, you've got really fast, responsive eye detection, but also it works with animals, and it works with, um, you know, in sports situations.
• 17:16
  Angela Nicholson: Now, I don't think we're quite there, you know, whether we're going to see Fujifilm medium format cameras on the touch line.
• 17:23
  Angela Nicholson: I don't know, but it's certainly very responsive and I was, I was very lucky to go to Stockholm for the X Summit at which the camera was launched.
• 17:33
  Angela Nicholson: And.
• 17:33
  Angela Nicholson: Before we left, I popped outside into the Stockholm rain, and there was lots of cyclists going by, and I thought, I wonder if I can get some panning shots with this, and yes, the answer was yes, I could.
• 17:45
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah.
• 17:45
  Angela Nicholson: So, you know, I just had to, I could set it to, I can't remember whether, I think I alternated between, because there is an option for bicycles or, um, humans, and I think I alternated between the two, and it You know, it managed to detect them, whichever one it was was selected, and so I could rely on that to find the focus for me.
• 18:03
  Angela Nicholson: And then I just had to concentrate on panning at the right speed, which is, you know, it's quite a skill.
• 18:07
  Angela Nicholson: And I got some shots that I'm really pleased with, and I ever expected to do with a medium format camera.
• 18:14
  David McClelland: It's kind of pushing the boundary a little bit, like you say, of what you expect a medium format camera to be able to do, because you mentioned portraits there, yes, they very comfortably fit there.
• 18:24
  David McClelland: Architecture type stuff as well, and interestingly I noticed that alongside that camera, it's also, Fujifilm's also announced two tilt shift lenses for its GFX lineup as well.
• 18:36
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah.
• 18:36
  Angela Nicholson: I mean, I think, uh, perhaps the 35 mil is the one that most people are excited about or more people are excited about.
• 18:43
  Angela Nicholson: because, you know, that's going to be really interesting for architecture and it has, um, you know, it could be really interesting for landscape photography as well.
• 18:50
  Angela Nicholson: So it means that you can, you can shoot from low down and instead of having converging verticals, you can get, you know, trees, Perfectly straight.
• 18:58
  David McClelland: Yes.
• 18:58
  Angela Nicholson: And so that makes, makes a big difference.
• 19:00
  Angela Nicholson: And I think the perhaps the 110, maybe that's going to be useful for, still life and commercial photography.
• 19:06
  David McClelland: Thank you for now, Ange.
• 19:08
  David McClelland: Time now to hear from this month's feature guest.
• 19:17
  David McClelland: Kelly Brown is a Brisbane Australia based multi award-winning portrait, photographer, and educator.
• 19:23
  David McClelland: Over the last 20 or so years, she's built businesses, communities and in-person events all around capturing images of newborn babies.
• 19:36
  David McClelland: Hi Kelly, thanks for joining us.
• 19:38
  David McClelland: Uh, WC fields.
• 19:40
  David McClelland: So American comedian writer and actor, he famously once said never work with animals and children.
• 19:46
  David McClelland: So what is it you enjoy about photographing children and babies in particular?
• 19:52
  David McClelland: What is it?
• 19:53
  Kelly Brown: You know, think for me, it's that I love the fact that it's so unpredictable.
• 19:57
  Kelly Brown: I mean, I photographed a lot of other genres, a lot of other types of portraits as well.
• 20:03
  Kelly Brown: And there's something about photographing a newborn baby with their family, you're familiar with, you know, having newborn babies around, there's this element of love and affection that families have for this new baby and for each other at the time, and I started to really notice that when I first got into photographing babies, and I thought they're so, it's so much nicer.
• 20:25
  Kelly Brown: Yeah.
• 20:25
  Kelly Brown: To be around people that are affectionate towards other and so in love with this baby I mean, I've got three children of my own and there is zero preparation that you can have for the amount of love that feel for the baby that you hold that you've just, know, given birth to.
• 20:43
  Kelly Brown: And so I, I just found myself drawn to these families and I found that I was, calmer.
• 20:49
  Kelly Brown: I enjoyed the process so much more.
• 20:52
  Kelly Brown: And I mean, I've naturally always been drawn to babies, but it's not what I've always photographed.
• 20:56
  Kelly Brown: But, it's definitely something that.
• 20:59
  Kelly Brown: I've enjoyed the challenge of capturing because they are so unpredictable as I mentioned and it's rewarding.
• 21:06
  Kelly Brown: Being able to capture part of their personality and making them look rested and comfortable.
• 21:11
  Kelly Brown: When you look at a photo, obviously it can make you feel a range of emotions.
• 21:16
  Kelly Brown: For me, I always want people to look at a photo because they're not in the room, they're not there at the time of the shoot, they don't know what goes into, to capturing the photo, but I want them to look at the photo and go, ah, not, Ooh, that baby looks uncomfortable or, you know, or that baby doesn't look happy or it looks strained or whatever.
• 21:34
  Kelly Brown: So it's the level of patience needs to be there to be able to capture that, but, for me it's definitely more about making the baby look comfortable so that when people look at the photos, they can at least enjoy that time because it is, you know, having that level of empathy for families um, that have just welcomed a new baby or multiple babies for that matter.
• 21:56
  David McClelland: So talk to me then about one of your sessions, typically how it might run.
• 21:59
  David McClelland: How do you keep the children, the babies and the parents calm and focused in what can be an intimidating environment?
• 22:08
  David McClelland: You know, studio, backdrops, props, cameras, lighting and all the rest of that.
• 22:12
  David McClelland: How do you keep that serenity?
• 22:15
  Kelly Brown: Do you know, a newborn studio is very similar to a normal photography portrait studio.
• 22:21
  Kelly Brown: I've worked for other photographers throughout my career.
• 22:23
  Kelly Brown: So taking, you know, the whole overwhelming, um, amount of equipment that we, we are required, but to turn that into a space that is very calm, that is, and it's comfortable for them.
• 22:37
  Kelly Brown: I think for a lot of new parents, you know, they're so overwhelmed with not knowing what to do when they become parents.
• 22:44
  Kelly Brown: And, you know, on one hand, they've got this enormous amount of love.
• 22:47
  Kelly Brown: And on the other hand, they've got this.
• 22:49
  Kelly Brown: world that they are completely unknown to.
• 22:52
  Kelly Brown: You know, they, they're sort of trying to do the best that they can every day to get through each day on very little sleep.
• 22:59
  Kelly Brown: So for me, it's about making them feel comfortable because when you take a new baby, to an environment like a studio.
• 23:06
  Kelly Brown: it's nerve wracking for them.
• 23:08
  Kelly Brown: It's it's overwhelming obviously because of the equipment and They're worried about their baby Everything concerns them from you know the the cleanliness so obviously things have to be very nice and hygienic, but also just for anyone who doesn't have a baby can be, it can be very overwhelming for them and can bring on anxiety to go to a new place that they've never been to before.
• 23:30
  Kelly Brown: So for me, it is all about creating that calm space and making them feel as comfortable and relaxed as possible.
• 23:38
  Kelly Brown: I have like relaxation music.
• 23:40
  Kelly Brown: If you've ever been for a massage, you know, and you walk in and you instantly feel relaxed.
• 23:45
  Kelly Brown: it's like that.
• 23:46
  Kelly Brown: So I, I have a lot going on in the room and even if I'm somewhat, stressed or anxious for whatever reason going on outside that particular shoot, then I always make sure I sort of ground myself walking before growing, going into the studio so that I keep that same, calm energy that my clients need for them to be able to sit back and relax.
• 24:06
  Kelly Brown: So the session basically revolves around them.
• 24:09
  Kelly Brown: And how I can best make them feel comfortable so that their baby feeds off that energy for me to be able to photograph them, um, contently.
• 24:18
  Kelly Brown: That's probably the best word.
• 24:20
  David McClelland: I asked this question as we did a shoot when my eldest daughter was a baby and I found it very difficult and I'll be polite in case the photographer's listening and for some reason can remember who we are.
• 24:33
  David McClelland: I would say it was me rather than them, but I felt very uncomfortable during the shoot, and I'm pretty sure, from the shots that my daughter didn't enjoy it either, and no surprise the images aren't something that we really keep or at least treasure, they are on the wall at my parents in law house, and I can just see in my eyes, and certainly my daughter's eyes, obviously knowing her very well, that it's not necessarily this calm, serene, not a memory that we want to treasure.
• 25:01
  David McClelland: I just wonder if for some reason, on a day, a shoot isn't working.
• 25:05
  David McClelland: Maybe the baby's having a bad day.
• 25:07
  David McClelland: Maybe the parents are having a bad day.
• 25:09
  David McClelland: Whether it's a case of, alright, just take half an hour, go and chill, go for a walk, go and do whatever you need to do to go and ground yourself.
• 25:16
  David McClelland: Or if on some days, the stars are just meaning that it's not going to work.
• 25:21
  Kelly Brown: Do you know, I just love that you brought this up because it is such a big part of what we do.
• 25:27
  Kelly Brown: To hear this from a parent's perspective, I love this because What I think a lot of photographers forget is that we are in the business of people.
• 25:35
  Kelly Brown: And if we're not taking care of the people that we're welcoming into our studio, then we're not creating an experience that they're going to remember.
• 25:43
  Kelly Brown: And photographs take you back to a moment in time that we remember.
• 25:48
  Kelly Brown: They remind you of that experience.
• 25:50
  Kelly Brown: And you just told me about that experience.
• 25:53
  Kelly Brown: And how old is your daughter now?
• 25:54
  Kelly Brown: Sorry, how long ago was the
• 25:55
  David McClelland: Oh, she's 13 now,
• 25:58
  Kelly Brown: you go.
• 25:58
  Kelly Brown: So 13 years ago, you are remembering exactly that.
• 26:02
  Kelly Brown: And those photos remind you of that experience.
• 26:05
  Kelly Brown: And I think this is what we have to remember.
• 26:07
  Kelly Brown: We have to take care of the people.
• 26:09
  Kelly Brown: Babies don't remember.
• 26:10
  Kelly Brown: Like, they will look back at the photos and look them and go, Why did you dress me like that, you know?
• 26:16
  Kelly Brown: What were you thinking me in that?
• 26:19
  Kelly Brown: And why did the photographer do that?
• 26:21
  Kelly Brown: They will have their own mindset around looking at those photos.
• 26:25
  Kelly Brown: But as parents, we do, we remember that moment in time.
• 26:29
  Kelly Brown: Looking at the photograph and I have very similar photos of my daughter who's now 20 and she's got one eye open and she looks extremely uncomfortable I just oh no, what did I do to that poor child?
• 26:40
  Kelly Brown: And it wasn't even me taking the photos at the time.
• 26:43
  Kelly Brown: I think what we have to do is, is remember that it's not all about the art.
• 26:49
  Kelly Brown: And we get sometimes a little bit carried away in, the process of it and we forget that it's an experience that a photo is going to take you back to remember.
• 26:58
  Kelly Brown: For me, people matter the most.
• 27:00
  Kelly Brown: I want couples to walk away knowing that they've thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
• 27:06
  Kelly Brown: And I've found that in doing that, and it's a lot about what I teach, when I make a family feel like they are literally in their home, in my studio, when I make them feel like they are a part of the process, when I make them feel like I'm creating photos that they've had a say in, then I've done my job really well.
• 27:24
  Kelly Brown: If they walk out and I don't get that sense, then I feel like I've not succeeded in doing what I'm being paid to do.
• 27:32
  David McClelland: What was your starting point in photography, Kelly?
• 27:35
  David McClelland: And what was your journey to realizing that baby photography in particular was where your skills and where your passion really met.
• 27:45
  Kelly Brown: I actually got a camera as a gift when I was married just over 20 years ago.
• 27:50
  Kelly Brown: And so, I wasn't the best photographer.
• 27:52
  Kelly Brown: And my husband at the time said to me, perhaps you should learn how take decent photo.
• 27:57
  Kelly Brown: So I enrolled in, in, yeah, big blow.
• 28:00
  Kelly Brown: I enrolled in a.
• 28:01
  Kelly Brown: course and I ended up having having a baby of my own and literally didn't want to miss a moment.
• 28:07
  Kelly Brown: So I took a hundred photos a day of this this poor baby.
• 28:12
  Kelly Brown: We stare at them literally, you know all day every day don't we trying to remember every little inch of them?
• 28:19
  Kelly Brown: And so you know, doing that, obviously I was learning a lot and then I remember having the six week old baby and I was off to college at night for a couple of hours each week to learn more and it was just when digital photography was starting to sort of come along.
• 28:33
  Kelly Brown: So I got quite hooked on on it then and one sort of thing led to another and, before I knew it, I was working for a, architectural company photographing staircases.
• 28:43
  Kelly Brown: Just sort of from there and having conversations with people that I knew, it was like, oh, somebody I know is getting married.
• 28:50
  Kelly Brown: They're probably looking for a wedding photographer.
• 28:52
  Kelly Brown: So I started photographing weddings.
• 28:54
  Kelly Brown: I got up to about 25 a year.
• 28:56
  Kelly Brown: Before I knew it, I had this very busy full time job and three children under three, so I sort of had to decide at that point whether I was going to keep, sort of, going in the same direction, like most photographers do, you know, when they're sort of starting out in those first few years, you photograph anything and everything, you don't want to turn a job down.
• 29:15
  Kelly Brown: I'd been photographing friends babies other people's babies, and I you know people that I'd photographed their weddings for they were having babies.
• 29:22
  Kelly Brown: So I was getting busier with more baby bookings, and I thought to myself This is easier and my clients can come Monday to Friday so
• 29:30
  David McClelland: heh,
• 29:30
  Kelly Brown: I didn't have to work weekends anymore.
• 29:32
  Kelly Brown: At the time, my husband actually was working in construction, so he was fly in, fly out, so he was only home every second weekend.
• 29:40
  Kelly Brown: And it was making it very difficult for me to continue sort of booking at the same rate, and I just made the decision that I was going to photograph babies.
• 29:48
  Kelly Brown: So I said to my husband, I'm going to photograph babies, and he said, you're crazy, there's no money in babies, and I, and I was like, oh, okay.
• 29:56
  Kelly Brown: And then I said to the wedding photographer that I worked for that, I have to hand my resignation in.
• 30:00
  Kelly Brown: And he's like, what are you gonna do?
• 30:02
  Kelly Brown: And I said, well, I'm gonna photograph babies.
• 30:03
  Kelly Brown: And he He said, it's a fad.
• 30:05
  Kelly Brown: It won't last.
• 30:06
  Kelly Brown: It's a trend.
• 30:07
  Kelly Brown: And I was like, okay, so I had like two people tell me that this wasn't going to work.
• 30:12
  Kelly Brown: And I think that gave me a little determination to push forward.
• 30:16
  Kelly Brown: And I proved both of them wrong.
• 30:18
  Kelly Brown: My husband ended up giving up his job in the construction industry and came and worked for me.
• 30:23
  Kelly Brown: The photographer that I worked for, he sent all of his staff to me to be trained a few years after I left there.
• 30:28
  Kelly Brown: So...
• 30:29
  Kelly Brown: I proved them wrong, didn't I?
• 30:31
  David McClelland: Well, I guess it's a natural on from weddings, at least for many couples.
• 30:35
  David McClelland: What happens within a couple of years or so after the wedding, it's the baby.
• 30:39
  David McClelland: So, I guess you're seeing the next stage of the journey that the wedding business was seeing.
• 30:45
  Kelly Brown: Yeah, and for me, that's probably the biggest reward of everything that I do, is that knowing that I get to watch these families grow, and that they've got the confidence within me to continue capturing their journey.
• 30:56
  David McClelland: I always say repeat business is good business, and certainly bears true there.
• 31:02
  David McClelland: You have successfully scaled your business from Kelly Brown, Little Pieces Photography, almost 20 years ago by the sounds of it, to what it is that you present now, which is much broader: photography, obviously, but mentoring, training, growing entire online communities.
• 31:21
  David McClelland: What were the penny drop moments on that journey that have enabled you to grow as a business?
• 31:27
  Kelly Brown: It's a crazy thing to kind of think back about really when you think almost 20 years.
• 31:31
  Kelly Brown: But, I never thought teaching would be an avenue that I would go down.
• 31:36
  Kelly Brown: I had an incredible opportunity just over a decade ago to go and present on a platform called Creative Live Seattle in the U.
• 31:43
  Kelly Brown: S.
• 31:44
  Kelly Brown: I've taught seven different classes on there now in the last decade, so it definitely put me in front of an audience, that has allowed me to grow my online platforms.
• 31:54
  Kelly Brown: It's something that I'm, I'm just extremely grateful for, but a lot of people don't realize how I got on to Creative Live as well.
• 32:02
  Kelly Brown: So that was almost a bit of a fluke.
• 32:04
  Kelly Brown: They were running a competition, and they were going to give a photographer a platform based off this competition.
• 32:10
  Kelly Brown: And what you had to do was submit a three minute video telling them about what it is that you specialize in, the area and what you teach.
• 32:18
  Kelly Brown: And with baby photography, for me, the focus has always been around the comfort and the safety of a baby.
• 32:23
  Kelly Brown: So, safety's obviously at the forefront of everything that I do and what most people who obviously photograph babies do.
• 32:30
  Kelly Brown: So, I did this three minute video and Garrett, who's my assistant, he's been with me for over twelve years, he held the camera in front of my face and I'd never filmed anything.
• 32:41
  Kelly Brown: And I literally just sort of blurted out everything that I taught in an in- person workshop.
• 32:47
  Kelly Brown: I said, no, I'm not going to send it.
• 32:49
  Kelly Brown: And he said, don't be silly.
• 32:50
  Kelly Brown: And I said, no, I don't think that I should send it.
• 32:52
  Kelly Brown: It's kind of crazy.
• 32:53
  Kelly Brown: And what do they, why would they pick an Australian, you know, in the background, because we had zero soundproofing or anything going on, you could hear cockatoos, you know, going crazy in the afternoon.
• 33:04
  Kelly Brown: And nobody likes the sound of their own voice and an Australian accent on top of that.
• 33:09
  Kelly Brown: I, um, I submitted this video thinking, oh, no way they'll throw it in the bin.
• 33:14
  Kelly Brown: Anyway, I got an email and it said, no, we've not selected you in our top five, but we'd like to offer your class.
• 33:21
  Kelly Brown: So I kind of bypassed the judging panel and landed myself a three day newborn posing class.
• 33:28
  Kelly Brown: And I photographed something like 22 babies in three days and broke records on their platform.
• 33:35
  Kelly Brown: I think there a and 000 people watching live at one point.
• 33:40
  Kelly Brown: Um, which for me is insane.
• 33:42
  Kelly Brown: Like I'm, I come from a small country town where there's not even 110, 000 people living.
• 33:48
  Kelly Brown: So it was kind of mind blowing.
• 33:50
  Kelly Brown: But that's where my journey sort of started in terms of teaching.
• 33:55
  Kelly Brown: And then in 2014, I believe, or maybe 2013, I came up with this concept to run a conference for baby photographers because it was...
• 34:05
  Kelly Brown: It's becoming more and more popular it was called the Baby Summit.
• 34:07
  Kelly Brown: So I developed this in-person conference and it became the largest attended conference in Australia for photographers and audience was 98, 99 percent women.
• 34:21
  Kelly Brown: And so that was again, quite an unheard.
• 34:24
  Kelly Brown: of thing.
• 34:25
  Kelly Brown: And that grew, um, I think we ran five or six of them in total before it was just way too much, but we did it in Atlanta in the U.
• 34:34
  Kelly Brown: S.
• 34:34
  Kelly Brown: as well in two thousand and 16, I can't remember now, and we had 1500 attendees in person for a three day event and that was quite phenomenal, so, it's been an amazing ride, let me tell you.
• 34:48
  David McClelland: Creative Live we know very well and we've spoken with Chase Jarvis a number The Photography Show.
• 34:55
  David McClelland: Describe for us where you're at right now with Kelly Brown empire.
• 35:00
  David McClelland: What does that encompass?
• 35:03
  Kelly Brown: Do you know, it's funny because, I do work with a lot of photographers in terms of growing their business and I am always looking for, for different avenues to be able to expand and, and continue to grow, um, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur.
• 35:18
  Kelly Brown: And I started a, a film and production studio here in, Brisbane where I live.
• 35:23
  Kelly Brown: so yeah, it's booked out solidly.
• 35:25
  Kelly Brown: It's one of the largest, soundproof film and production studios called Spine Street Studios.
• 35:31
  Kelly Brown: So that's part of how I have expanded.
• 35:34
  Kelly Brown: With my online education, I have kellybrownonline.
• 35:38
  Kelly Brown: com which is more like a, a monthly membership for photographers who want to basically learn anything from newborn photography right through to family portraiture, maternity, you name it.
• 35:50
  Kelly Brown: It's a, it's a really beautiful community actually, and I'm live three times a week.
• 35:54
  Kelly Brown: So that's, it works out to be about six hours a week that I'm live with them teaching.
• 35:58
  Kelly Brown: You know, it can be anything from an image critique, or to an edit with me, or just a live Q& A.
• 36:05
  Kelly Brown: It's a growing platform, but at the moment I'm just happy with where it is.
• 36:09
  Kelly Brown: I don't see it changing too much, or um, I don't have any bigger plans for it in the future at the moment, but I'm loving it getting to know photographers online.
• 36:18
  David McClelland: How do you find balance within all of that?
• 36:22
  David McClelland: I speak to a lot of people who struggle with balance, balance between the creative aspect of their job, what they started doing before the business side started to become part of their growth, but also in terms of the work life balance thing, and maybe the whole of it family balance thing has, changed to accommodate the growth in business, but do you find it easy to balance these different demands on your time,
• 36:46
  Kelly Brown: I think a lot of parents really struggle and for any artist really, you know, we always struggle with being able to separate the artist from the business owner.
• 36:55
  Kelly Brown: I actually studied business before I became a photographer.
• 36:59
  Kelly Brown: So I had a pretty good understanding and knowledge of, you know, being able to structure a business, um, effectively, but having three children under three taught me a lot in terms of how to structure my day and get through the, get through the day and I'm a bit of a creature of habit when it comes to that.
• 37:16
  Kelly Brown: It is very difficult to balance your life when it comes to work and home.
• 37:22
  Kelly Brown: But if you don't make excuses, it makes it easier.
• 37:25
  Kelly Brown: So I'm, I'm very structured and I have to be.
• 37:28
  Kelly Brown: And it's the same with my business.
• 37:30
  Kelly Brown: Everybody that I communicate with they know that I work Monday to Friday, nine to three.
• 37:34
  Kelly Brown: If they need to get hold of me, I'm at the studio during those hours and then I'm at home afterwards.
• 37:39
  Kelly Brown: I know some people must get frustrated with me, but I often don't pull my laptop out of my bag once I get home because that's my home time.
• 37:46
  Kelly Brown: And I don't get emails on my phone.
• 37:48
  Kelly Brown: That's also another really big part of being able structure your time.
• 37:53
  Kelly Brown: and I have all notifications for social media turned off I, I'm not often on my personal social media, I'm on there with my, my business page or I'm in my Facebook groups, um, within my community, but I'm definitely, very, very structured and have to be otherwise you just become all too consumed by it.
• 38:11
  Kelly Brown: You know, our business needs to work for us, so we need to structure it in a way that, and, you know, build the right foundation so that it can work for you.
• 38:20
  David McClelland: Thank you for taking valuable out of your day to speak to us in that case.
• 38:25
  David McClelland: Kelly Brown has been a delight to speak to you and I can't wait to meet you and hear even more from you at the Photography Show in Birmingham in March
• 38:33
  Kelly Brown: Yeah, I'm really, really excited.
• 38:35
  Kelly Brown: It's going to be my first time presenting there and I can't wait to, experience it.
• 38:43
  David McClelland: A big, thanks to Kelly.
• 38:44
  David McClelland: Find out more about her work at kellybrown.com.au-link in the show notes.
• 38:54
  David McClelland: Ange, let's talk about the SheClicks and Photography and Video Show Meetup at the Fujifilm House of Photography in October.
• 39:04
  David McClelland: This is very exciting.
• 39:05
  David McClelland: what is it?
• 39:06
  David McClelland: And what can people who go expect to experience?
• 39:10
  Angela Nicholson: Yeah.
• 39:10
  Angela Nicholson: Well, it is very exciting.
• 39:12
  Angela Nicholson: it's not the first time that Fujifilm house of photography, but we're very excited about going back.
• 39:17
  Angela Nicholson: So the Photography Show, I, I absolutely love it.
• 39:20
  Angela Nicholson: And you know, the number of women who go there has been increasing, but we still haven't got sort of 50 percent representation yet.
• 39:26
  Angela Nicholson: So I was trying to think how we could make women more visible at the show, but also make the show more visible to women and how we can encourage more women to go along.
• 39:36
  Angela Nicholson: And so I had a chat with the photography show team and we came up with this plan, which is going to be part of the longstanding campaign called Women Who Photo.
• 39:44
  Angela Nicholson: So basically, we're going to get together at the House of Photography.
• 39:46
  Angela Nicholson: There's going to be two sessions, and we're all going to have our photographs taken, uh, with Fujifilm ex ambassador, Emily Endeen.
• 39:54
  Angela Nicholson: And so the idea is that, you know, we'll probably have a few group shots, a few couple shots, and then some individual shots.
• 39:59
  Angela Nicholson: So everyone will get a nice profile picture shot by Emily, but then these photographs will be used as part of a campaign in the build up to the show.
• 40:07
  Angela Nicholson: And also the photos will be seen at the show on screens to sort of just remind people that there are a lot of women who are really into photography.
• 40:14
  David McClelland: Now, just to be absolutely clear on a couple of things there, Fujifilm X Ambassador, that doesn't mean that she was formerly an ambassador for Fujifilm.
• 40:23
  David McClelland: Fujifilm X is itself a thing, isn't it?
• 40:25
  Angela Nicholson: Yes.
• 40:25
  Angela Nicholson: Sorry.
• 40:26
  Angela Nicholson: I should have said Fujifilm ex photographer, but it still has the same thing.
• 40:29
  Angela Nicholson: So I have to stick the word.
• 40:31
  Angela Nicholson: uses ex photographer for their ambassador name.
• 40:34
  Angela Nicholson: So yeah, Emily is very much a Fujifilm ambassador.
• 40:37
  David McClelland: And that makes great sense when you're seeing it written down.
• 40:39
  David McClelland: When you're speaking about it on a podcast or on a video, not quite so much sense, but yeah, And the Fujifilm House of Photography, I've not been to it before, but it looks like an incredible...
• 40:50
  David McClelland: Venue, experience, place.
• 40:51
  David McClelland: Tell us a bit more about that.
• 40:52
  Angela Nicholson: It's a really lovely place, actually.
• 40:54
  Angela Nicholson: It's a bit like the Apple store for Fiji film, but it's not quite so in your face with the sales, I would say.
• 41:01
  Angela Nicholson: So as you go through into the ground floor, there's lots of, you can see all the cameras and there are a few things to photograph and there's lots of demo cameras around, these things.
• 41:09
  Angela Nicholson: So you can pick them up and have a little play and there's lots of staff on hand.
• 41:12
  Angela Nicholson: You can ask questions and they will tell you all about it.
• 41:14
  Angela Nicholson: then upstairs, there is a gallery area and there's usually an exhibition up there.
• 41:18
  Angela Nicholson: which is, you know, they've got all sorts of stuff on.
• 41:20
  Angela Nicholson: Um, it changes every few weeks.
• 41:23
  Angela Nicholson: So it's, it's always worth going in and just popping upstairs to see what you can see.
• 41:26
  Angela Nicholson: And then downstairs is a lounge area and a really fantastic studio.
• 41:31
  Angela Nicholson: So that's where we're going to be downstairs in the lounge area and in the studio.
• 41:35
  David McClelland: Now there are two sessions on the day.
• 41:37
  David McClelland: So this is taking place on Saturday the 21st of October, and the House of Photography is around Covent Garden, Leicester Square area, understand.
• 41:47
  David McClelland: there are two different sitting sessions on the day, am I right?
• 41:51
  Angela Nicholson: Yes, that's right.
• 41:52
  Angela Nicholson: There's one that starts at 11.
• 41:53
  Angela Nicholson: 30 and the other at 2.
• 41:54
  Angela Nicholson: 30.
• 41:55
  Angela Nicholson: I should add that they're just about at capacity.
• 41:58
  Angela Nicholson: So it's about, you have to book in advance because obviously there's a limited space.
• 42:02
  Angela Nicholson: We're almost fully booked.
• 42:04
  Angela Nicholson: But if you, check it out, you might be lucky and be able to get along.
• 42:07
  David McClelland: And if you want to find out more about that, then head over to, well, one of the places, I'm sure there are others, but photographyshow.
• 42:14
  David McClelland: com and then right on the top there on the right hand side you will see Meetup, there is a sign up form at the bottom.
• 42:21
  David McClelland: You can pop your name down, pop your, which slot works best for you.
• 42:25
  David McClelland: And, uh, well, fingers crossed if you're an early subscriber to this podcast, then maybe you're able to slip in there first.
• 42:37
  David McClelland: That is however, all we have time for this month, we'll be back on the first Thursday of next month for more of the same.
• 42:44
  David McClelland: Remember the in-person Photography and Video show takes place at the National Exhibition Center in Birmingham, England from the 16th to the 19th of March, 2024.
• 42:54
  David McClelland: And as promised.
• 42:55
  David McClelland: We have news.
• 42:57
  David McClelland: Yes, you can now book your tickets.
• 43:00
  David McClelland: Yes.
• 43:00
  David McClelland: The ticket line is open as of today.
• 43:03
  David McClelland: On the website, photographyshow.com.
• 43:06
  David McClelland: The exhibitor list is up on the website, too.
• 43:09
  David McClelland: Delighted to welcome back Canon, Nikon Sony OM, Fujifilm, Lumix, along with a lovely long list of both regular and new exhibitors.
• 43:19
  David McClelland: Also, we can announce exclusively.
• 43:22
  David McClelland: I think here on the podcast, at least at the time of recording.
• 43:25
  David McClelland: the shows first speakers.
• 43:28
  David McClelland: So alongside the amazing Kelly Brown, who we heard from earlier, joining us, we have Sean Tucker visual storyteller in utuber.
• 43:36
  David McClelland: Gabrielle Mottola gold winner within her category at last week's AOP awards.
• 43:42
  David McClelland: Donatella Nicoline portrait photographer, and listed as one of the top 100 most successful women in 2023 in Forbes Italia.
• 43:50
  David McClelland: And we welcome back Peter Dench, documentary photographer, renowned for his candid shots of society.
• 43:55
  David McClelland: And co-founder of the Photo North Festival always enjoy chatting with Peter.
• 44:01
  David McClelland: More announcements coming soon.
• 44:03
  David McClelland: Hopefully on next month's podcast.
• 44:08
  David McClelland: Remember, if you enjoy what we do here, then please do hit subscribe, leave us a review.
• 44:13
  David McClelland: We've had some five-star reviews already, which is great.
• 44:16
  David McClelland: Thank you very much.
• 44:17
  David McClelland: Indeed.
• 44:17
  David McClelland: We'd love some more though, to help other people find the show.
• 44:21
  David McClelland: It's been lovely to hear from people getting in touch on social media.
• 44:24
  David McClelland: Uh, and even on a shoot a couple of weeks ago, somebody said how much they enjoy the show.
• 44:28
  David McClelland: Thank you very much.
• 44:29
  David McClelland: Uh, do drop us a line, the photography show@futurenet.com on email, on Instagram at the photography show that works for threads as well.
• 44:39
  David McClelland: And the platform formerly known as Twitter at UK photo show.
• 44:47
  David McClelland: Ange, it's been an absolute treat to have you with us this month.
• 44:49
  David McClelland: Where can people keep up with what you get up to online?
• 44:53
  Angela Nicholson: Well, if you go to or search for SheClicksNet, you'll find us on Facebook, Twitter, or X, as we're supposed to call it now, Instagram, Instagram.
• 45:03
  Angela Nicholson: And also you'll find we've got a website and if you go to the website, you can find the podcast.
• 45:08
  Angela Nicholson: The podcast is also available at all the leading platforms just like yours.
• 45:12
  David McClelland: Indeed it is, wherever you get your podcasts.
• 45:14
  David McClelland: Thank you very much indeed again.
• 45:15
  David McClelland: And thank you to Kelly for chatting with us earlier on as well.
• 45:18
  David McClelland: And we will see you all, next month.
• 45:20
  David McClelland: Bye bye for now.
• 45:21
  Angela Nicholson: Bye bye.