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It's Not A Vacation, It's A Family Trip · Not Right Now

• 0:00
  [upbeat music] Hey, I have three kids. They eat so much. We try to eat real food. We try to cook when we can.
• 0:10
  We try not to waste too much, 'cause it drives me nuts, and it's expensive, and also for obvious climate reasons, which is why the Mill Food Recycler changed our lives a couple years ago.
• 0:23
  It is an odorless, effortless, and fully automated food recycler. Look, we've had this thing front and center in our kitchen for, again, a couple years now it feels like, and it is just such a game changer.
• 0:37
  Way less waste, less smell, way less garbage, which by the way, saves you money. No leaky bags.
• 0:44
  Look, you got peels, bones, stalks, whatever leftovers, dump them in the Mill, and Mill dries and grinds them while you sleep. Again, it doesn't smell, which I don't understand. It's sleek. It's actually sexy.
• 1:00
  Here's a question people ask: how often do you empty it? Good question. It's every three weeks. I don't know, maybe, and there's a bunch of us.
• 1:07
  Plus, there's a little app where you can control it if you want and set a schedule, and it shows you how much food your family keeps out of landfills. A delight.
• 1:15
  Look, you can get $75 off right now when you go to our special partner site. I'm gonna read you the link, but you should know it's also in the show notes, and you can just click it.
• 1:26
  It is mill.com/lp/important-not-important. That is mill.com/lp/important-not-important. I couldn't remember that, so we put it in the show notes.
• 1:44
  It's right there for you. Check it out. Huge thanks to Mill for sponsoring our work and doing the right thing, and thanks to all of you listeners for supporting our partners.
• 1:55
  [upbeat music] It is a rule that they will not have to go to the bathroom until they say, "Prepare for landing. Put your tray tables up," and it will be an emergency. Oh.
• 2:05
  Not just one of those annoying ones where they're yelling and you're like, "You're gonna be fine." Like, "Why did you do this?" Like, they're gonna shit themselves. Now they're, like, nine, and it's not great.
• 2:17
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Not Right Now, the podcast about parenting through all of this. We'll be talking about/crashing out over topics like...
• 2:28
  Reproductive rights and who left this granola bar wrapper in their pocket before laundry and/or stuffed into the couch or just on the floor, and I'm asking who left it even though I know exactly who left it.
• 2:39
  Digital footprints and actual muddy footprints all over the floor and handprints on the glass. It's not an advice show. It's a you're not alone, and you're also not crazy for screaming in the shower kinda show.
• 2:52
  I'm Claire Zulkey from Evil Witches. And I'm Quinn Emmett from Important Not Important. You can find details on anything we talk about in the show notes or at our website, notrightnow.show..show.
• 3:05
  And if you like what you hear today, please share it with a parent who needs it or who might laugh and tell their kids to be quiet, and then drop us a nice little five-star review.
• 3:13
  And reminder, you can send questions or feedback to questions@notrightnow.show. [upbeat music] We're both just off spring break. I mean, you were a little while ago, and we are just back a few days ago.
• 3:29
  We had been talking about doing this before our spring breaks, talking about travel, and you had mentioned in a text or something how we really shouldn't call vacations with kids vacation, which feels cliche 'cause it's true.
• 3:42
  'Cause a lot of times things are true, just like boys are dumb. We are. So let's talk about that a- and I wanna get into
• 3:52
  what we've learned, what we haven't, what's worked, and all that kinda shit, and I would love if listeners, please, and I'm sure you've got 'em, write in with your best/most hellish travel stories, anecdotes, lesson learned, any of that kind of things.
• 4:07
  If you've opted out entirely or you're one of those ambitious people. I got a buddy who's like, "Oh, well, where should I take my kids for spring break?"
• 4:13
  I think this was last year, and he's like, "I mean, we've gone to, you know, 17 countries." And I was like, "We're not doing any of that shit." Why? Yeah. They're... His kids are tiny.
• 4:20
  Anyways, I wanna hear first, let's talk about your experience growing up because obviously so much of our parenting, if not consciously, is rooted in our monstrous upbringings. Uh.
• 4:31
  Did your family travel at all, even if it was, like, 20 minutes to a fucking rented lake shack? Or more ambitiously, how did it go? Any rituals? Anything you despised and didn't look forward to? Give it to me.
• 4:45
  Well, I was very privileged, which I didn't, of course, realize until later in life. I thought this was just the case.
• 4:50
  My dad is an attorney with a big law firm, so his firm would have these, like, meetings every year, and we would travel along with them, so I re- remember clearly we're like Boston or Colorado Springs, Bermuda.
• 5:03
  This is all from Chicago? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And there was a place called the... It still is there. This place called The Greenbrier in West Virginia- Mm-hmm...
• 5:10
  which is, like, a big old resort, America's resort, and those are fun for me 'cause you'd have friends that you'd go see and hang out with while the parents did their thing.
• 5:18
  And my parents were also big Civil War heads, so my brother and I would do- Which side? Oh, well, obviously we're Northerners, but we saw a lot of battlefields, Vicksburg, things like that.
• 5:31
  So we did a lot of domestic travel and, you know, a- and some nice stuff for sure, like fancy travel as well. So it wasn't until
• 5:42
  later in life that I was like, wow, not everyone can do this [chuckles] which brings me shame, and also I'm grateful for the experiences I had, and I, like, you know, am wistful.
• 5:53
  My kid's babysitter, she's in high school, and she just went to Paris and Spain with school, and I was thinking, like, there's nothing like being young and getting taken somewhere and shown around and having all of your t- logistics planned for you and having some grown-up plan this for you.
• 6:08
  So-Yeah. My parents were into travel, which I was, again, very thankful for and grateful for. Not everyone else gets to experience it, so that was pretty, pretty lucky for me. How about you guys?
• 6:18
  What was your travel experience? Were you thankful and grateful in the moment? Well- Did you always handle it so well? Or were there times you're like, "Fuck off, I wanna stay with my friends and smoke weed somewhere"?
• 6:29
  [laughs] The one time I was an asshole, I remember, I think I was in high school, and my dad would take us skiing once a winter, and that was our trip to give my mom a break more than anything else.
• 6:38
  And I was in high school. So she didn't come? She opted out? No. Correct. Oh, what a hero. I know. That's the original not right now. She's like, "I'm just not doing it." Yeah.
• 6:46
  Well, one time we took, we went to a resort or a ski town that I won't name, but it's known for being a very fancy ski town, and I skied and I hurt myself in a minor way, and the trip was aborted and I had to come home early.
• 6:57
  And my mom was, she's still mad about that, that her time was cut down.
• 7:00
  And I learned from her, honestly, like early on was like, learned to have no shame about being a mom who's like, "I need you guys to go away," or, "I need to go away." Mm-hmm. "I need my own time."
• 7:09
  But I remember that year I was like in high school and reading Salinger, and I was like, "What's the point of this?" You know? Mm-hmm.
• 7:16
  Just like the worst, like the girl in White Lotus who thinks she's a Buddhist until she's like, "The food's not really that good." But, you know, we did s- a lot of like hotels with pools and things like that. Mm-hmm.
• 7:26
  And that was always fun. And my mom was a real believer of you go to any museum and you get to go to the gift shop afterwards. So they were good at- Mm-hmm... you know, kind of giving you a carrot and stick.
• 7:35
  She did make up me keep a travel journal, which you were making fun of me 'cause I was remembering all the details from our trip to Mexico City. I was like, "She fucking made this whole thing up.
• 7:44
  There's no way any of this is real." [laughs] That was ingrained in me from an early age, was to write down everything you did. 'Cause you forget. Yeah.
• 7:51
  And you might wanna share the details with someone else who's going, or you might go back someday, or- Mm-hmm... I don't know. You, it all washes away quickly. And I don't make my kids do that.
• 8:00
  And of course they don't appreciate me for, at all for that 'cause they're ingrates. But yeah, I mean, I'm sure I was not always an angel, but we certainly had enough treats and fun and whatnot.
• 8:10
  You know, staying in hotels is always a good time. So yeah, I, I mean, they may feel differently. And I remember when my brothers became like kind of a pain in the ass and would be mopey and things like that.
• 8:20
  But you know, my parents took me to England and France and Spain. We went to Poland the year before I got married, which was an amazing experience.
• 8:28
  So, you know, even in my young adulthood too, they would take us around places. But I wish I had more self-awareness earlier that there are certain careers where the travel is baked in.
• 8:38
  It's not just 'cause you choose not to go. It took me a long time to figure that out, which was embarrassing to me, but I'm still glad I got to do that. E- email newsletters doesn't do it for you?
• 8:46
  No, they're not sending me on these conferences, like paying me to go to, you know, the resort or anything like that. But still working on it. We'll see. [laughs] We're gonna get there. That's great.
• 8:57
  Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, ours was not that. I mean, I was lucky to travel too, not nearly to that extent.
• 9:03
  I think probably 'cause we were four of us and we were really fucking busy, and, uh, the money situation was usually like we're pretty good or we're not. Was it ever clear to you
• 9:14
  during a trip or after, besides that incredible story about your mom, that they regretted the entire thing?
• 9:20
  Was there ever an experience like two days into it where you could see they were just like, "This was a fucking mistake. Like why did we bring them?" I don't think so. Not that I remember. I'll have to ask them.
• 9:31
  I, I mean, I certainly have a couple memories.
• 9:33
  I remember laughing because we took our kids to New Orleans a couple years ago, and they were so disgusted by the French Quarter, like they had their T-shirts over their noses, 'cause it does, make no mistake, smell like piss and vomit even on the best day.
• 9:50
  And I remember being a kid in New Orleans and being scandalized by, I think walking by a nudie bar, you know, like a topless bar, and my mom, who is pretty conservative, going, "Claire, that's just how it is here," or something like that.
• 10:03
  And I was like, "I don't think I'm supposed to be here." And so I was like, you know, the tradition lives on of terrifying your kids. Yeah, 100%. Um, yeah. I mean, interesting 'cause my husband, he grew up camping.
• 10:14
  Like his parents, they had a camper. Like they at one point dreamed of being like camp... Oh my gosh, what's the word for like when you live at a campsite and you're like the overseer, like the campground manager?
• 10:25
  I forget what it is. Camp director. Let's go with that. But- Sure. Yeah. And my mom is sort of a diva and would never in a million years, ever camp, ever.
• 10:33
  So my dad had fantasies about camping where he would buy us a, for some reason, a 10-person tent, and we camped in the backyard for one night, you know, and go inside at 4:00 in the morning when, and get sick of it.
• 10:44
  But I mean, it was, it was cushy travel for sure. But yeah, I don't remember any like huge shit shows per se. Well, that's great. I mean, ours, I'm sure we had shit shows. I'm sure was some combination of
• 10:59
  we were three boys and then my sister, like m- fucking morons, you know, degenerate fucking morons. So I'm sure we ruined most things. I- Like we did on a day-to-day basis. But
• 11:15
  yet, again, we were so busy, and I think it was probably so fucking expensive to take four kids anywhere. So for a little while I was very lucky that most of my older childhood,
• 11:28
  I had one set of grandparents in my neighborhood and one set of grandparents about four miles away, basically from 11 to 18. It was pretty amazing, which I've now tried to really recreate here.
• 11:41
  But before that, my mom's parents were down in Marco Island, Florida, doing the retiree thing. And so we would take trips down there once or twice a year, often without my dad, which I think was a work thing, but
• 11:57
  I don't think was a mutually agreed decision, 'cause traveling with four morons alone is not something someone chooses to do. No. Um- I think that must be a big difference, is having at least more than one boy.
• 12:10
  'Cause my brother was... I was very well-behaved.And my brother, I think... I don't know if he'd be different if he had another boy there So that was a lot. But we would get down there, and it would be great.
• 12:20
  And, you know, Marco Island is Florida, so, you know, kamikaze level mosquitoes at all times. So they had a little pool in their backyard, but it was completely covered over with, you know, net or whatever.
• 12:32
  So you stayed in there, you were good. And we would just stay in 24/7 basically, and then my amazing, tiny little grandma would give us Frosted Flakes over and over. So we did that a lot.
• 12:42
  I think that was like, "Here's your travel." And the other thing we did a lot now back in, you know, the town I grew up in, we're about just under two and a half hours from the Outer Banks in North Carolina- Mm-hmm...
• 12:53
  which is really great. There's a lot that's changed, but there's a lot that hasn't. It's a very finite area, geography, so you can't really build a lot. I mean, it's all gonna fucking go away in 20 years.
• 13:04
  It's already starting to. But we would go to the northern half, which is what they call Duck and Corolla, and places like that.
• 13:10
  And basically, usually what we would do is every summer we would go for one, and then we got older, we would go for two weeks. And I think it was just a way to keep us busy.
• 13:18
  Not a far drive when you really think about it, just the goal was like, get the kids there. And we would stop by, what was it called? Price Club. Do you remember Price Club? Early Costco.
• 13:30
  You know, they would get 70 fucking jars of pasta sauce and go down, and a lot of times we would do at least one of the weeks in a house with some of my dad's college roommates and their kids, who were great guys, and their kids were great, so we kind of didn't grow up together.
• 13:47
  They were all over the country. But we would do those trips once a year, and that was really fun. Whoa. And again, as I'm sure you know, most of the time,
• 13:55
  having more children around who get along is actually easier than fewer children. Oh, yeah.
• 14:00
  So I think that was probably a good cheat code for them to be able to hang out, but also to be like, "Great, they don't want anything to do with me, and I don't want anything to do with them. This is a win.
• 14:09
  It's a beach." The best. "They can't fucking go anywhere." Yeah. So that was nice. I'm sure we ruined it all the time. I don't have any- [laughs]... specific memories.
• 14:15
  I think part of that's just dementia and blacking things out. But that was nice. There were a lot of kids running around. That was really fun. Yeah. I did always really enjoy that. And now we kind of do the same thing.
• 14:27
  We try to go for a week a year sometime in the summer, and Dana didn't really grow up doing that, and she had some water issues, so obviously there's fucking sand everywhere, things I gloss over now, which we had to learn a bit.
• 14:38
  And also, a beach can be two different things to your kids. At first, it's a wide open canvas, which means there's nothing to do. Right.
• 14:45
  And then soon it becomes a wide open canvas, and they never get out of the fucking ocean. At least mine do. They never run out of shit to do.
• 14:52
  No, it's interesting because we don't do beach vacations because we live by the beach- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm... so we don't need to go to that. And then, and also we're Midwesterners, so we're scared of the ocean.
• 15:00
  And then, yeah, all of our relatives by and large, at least the ones with kids, are here, so we're not traveling to see family. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
• 15:06
  We have some Phoenix relatives, but that's a whole other story for another time. But yeah, otherwise that was like us for, as well. Like, you're not traveling to see family by and large.
• 15:15
  So yeah, it's interesting how different destinations or different touchstones basically. Yeah. I think we did Disney once, which I'm sure was a disaster.
• 15:25
  And I'm sure my parents were mad at us because we would have two bites of a sandwich and then not eat it, and they'd be like, "That's all of our dough."
• 15:32
  I, it was- That's why I don't take our kids to Disney is because I'm like, I can tell how mad I would be, like already. I was talking to a mom about that at the baseball game last night.
• 15:38
  We were saying, she was like, "I think for Christmas we're gonna try to do an experience over stuff because I'm tired of stuff." I was like, "Yes, I'm fully in."
• 15:47
  But I said, "You know, but don't plan something where you're gonna be on a short fuse the entire time- Uh-huh... because that's not fair to you or them, and it's just self-sabotage," right? Don't do that.
• 15:57
  Find something that's lower stakes, both money, things for them to do, that kind of shit. I mean, it'll still blow up in your face, but that's just inevitable.
• 16:06
  But yeah, you know, inevitably, like my older brother's four and a half years older than me. My younger brother's two years younger than I am. And my sister's another four years after him. So we are pretty spaced out.
• 16:19
  Mm-hmm. You know? So we would go to the beach or whatever. I think we went skiing like twice ever. They were pretty spaced out. I mean, my sister's six years younger than I am.
• 16:30
  She's 10 years younger than my older brother. So he could be 14 and like going out on the boardwalk at night because they were like, "Get the fuck out of here." You know, it's late- Yeah...
• 16:38
  '80s, early '90s, but they still have a four-year-old to deal with at home. Mm-hmm. So it was like a long stretch of people who are a pain in the ass, even though I'm sure my sister at 4 was easier than my brother at 14.
• 16:49
  Right. And meanwhile there's me at 10 and 11 just destroying everything.
• 16:53
  Yeah, again, it was like sometimes money's good and sometimes it's not, but also it costs a lot either way, and we used up a lot of capital to do those trips to see family.
• 17:03
  And then once they moved there, we didn't do that as much. I think we just really honestly stuck with the beach thing. It was easy, you know? Oh.
• 17:09
  And it w- again, it grew to two weeks, and they just wouldn't even see us for two weeks at that point. They were just like, "Get out." You know? Yeah. Which- Yeah... is easier for sure.
• 17:18
  But then again, everyone had jobs and shit, so we didn't do a lot. But because my brother was so much older, the one international trip we did do, he somehow went abroad to Oxford for a semester when he was in college.
• 17:33
  So I was in, you know, early high school, middle school, and then everyone after me. And we went and saw him there at the end of that, I think.
• 17:42
  And then he went ab- he went later, but we went, and we did London and Ireland- Oh... and drove around. And my dad just driving a stick shift van around Ireland- Oh...
• 17:55
  where not only are you driving on the other side of the car, but the stick shift is, isn't with your other hand. Yeah. Just furious the whole time. Um- Yeah. [laughs] That's so funny.
• 18:04
  But I think I was like th- maybe 14, 15. That was pretty impressionable on me.
• 18:08
  I was like, oh, you know, even though that's, you know, the closest analogy to here, but it was still like, oh, there's some really cool history there. But I'm sure it was extremely expensive. So yeah, I don't know.
• 18:18
  That was kind of our history.So we're on a big cleaning streak right now. As you can imagine, I'm very annoying about it to my children. But we're trying to dial it down to the essentials at home.
• 18:32
  So whether you're an appliance, a piece of furniture, or clothing, whatever, you gotta earn your spot.
• 18:40
  Everything's got a place, everything has utility, which is hard with kids who constantly bring things into the house and all their stuff. And it's really hard when you're trying to feed them constantly.
• 18:51
  And there are various appliances that are advertised to you that can literally do one thing that honestly can't justify the counter space.
• 19:01
  But I'll tell you what does, it's the Mill Food Recycler, and holy cow, does it ever. It doesn't even go on the counter, by the way. It goes on the floor like a sexy trash can.
• 19:12
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• 19:21
  Put them in there, and then while you sleep, the Mill automatically turns on, dries, and grinds them, and it doesn't smell at all. It's crazy. Again, let's rehash.
• 19:30
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• 19:55
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• 20:03
  You guys can get seventy-five dollars off right now when you go to our special site. I'm gonna read it to you, but you should know the link is right in the show notes, and you can just smash your finger against it.
• 20:13
  It's mill.com/lp/important-not-important. Can I remember that? No. That's why we put the link right in the show notes.
• 20:24
  So anyways, huge thanks to Mill for doing the right thing and trying to cut down on food waste, most of which comes from our homes, for sponsoring our work, and of course, thanks to you listeners for always supporting our partners.
• 20:37
  [upbeat music] I'm not ready to do, uh, jet lag with my kids yet. I mean, we went to Colombia a couple years ago for a family wedding with them, and we left at...
• 20:47
  I think our flight was at six AM, so we left the house at three AM, and our younger kid with ADHD was so keyed up that he was awake since eleven PM the night before.
• 20:56
  And so we could not figure out when to give him his ADHD meds. Mm. I mean, you have to give it to him just to function, you know, but then you're like, do I give him another round? Bedtime that night was a disaster.
• 21:08
  And so if there's anyone listening who has traveled with kids who have ADHD and have cracked the code on how to medicate your kid or when to give them their medication, I welcome that, 'cause I also remember...
• 21:21
  I remember being the first time I had jet lag, and a friend of mine just took her kids to Europe around Christmas.
• 21:26
  Her in-laws splurged for a trip for their whole family to France and, and England, and her kids were such sloppy messes.
• 21:33
  Her older son was like, "I wish I was home with Paul," which was cute to me, but she was like, "Shut up." And she said, "I didn't anticipate not only their jet lag, but me being jet lagged on top of it."
• 21:44
  And I just- Yeah, when we were in LA- Oh my God. [laughs]... and people would take their kids to Europe, and then they would come back, and they would be like, "I mean, it was okay," I'm like, "It wasn't.
• 21:53
  You're just-" [laughs] "... fucking saying that because it's impossible." Yeah. So we did our first international one over Christmas.
• 21:58
  Because basically, my kids were young enough before COVID, and basically, we would come here every sum- for six, eight weeks, something like that, right?
• 22:07
  And it was great, and then we would do Christmas too, like not a lot of bandwidth to do other shit, and we didn't want to. We didn't have the money to do it. We were too busy, this and that.
• 22:14
  And then COVID knocked out a lot of that, so we didn't do a lot forever. But then this Christmas, I looked up
• 22:20
  December 10th or something, realized after Christmas my kids were gonna be out of school for an additional 12 days straight, and I was like, "We're not fucking doing that w- at all." Right. It's not happening.
• 22:31
  What do I do? And I knew, like, standard resort for three days or whatever wasn't gonna cut it for anyone involved. So we did the London thing, and East Coast is definitely easier than I imagine California would've been.
• 22:42
  The kids are a bit older, but it was so last minute, and remarkably for us, and by that, I mean me, we just tried to make it as low stakes as humanly possible. We were just like- Mm-hmm...
• 22:56
  no, the trip isn't shove as much in as possible, including the greatest hits. It was just being somewhere, being there. Mm-hmm. So if they woke up at fucking noon, like, we don't have anywhere to go. We're just- Right...
• 23:09
  and we see one thing a day. On vacation. And that lowering the stakes was extremely helpful. Very good advice for me once was just, like, schedule one thing per day maximum, you know.
• 23:19
  And then once I traveled with a friend of mine, and I learned from watching her just to never let the kids get hungry, ever. There's no point. Just snacks constantly. If they barely- It's-... eat at dinner, who cares?
• 23:30
  Like, it's just- Well, and that's the thing. It's a trip. It doesn't fucking matter. Just do whatever the thing is. Pack snacks, bring snacks.
• 23:36
  If you can, bring, like, familiar snacks from home so you don't have to put up- Uh-huh... with that shit, 'cause God forbid you bring a different type of granola bar, and they're like, "I don't like it." It's oats.
• 23:43
  Like, I don't know- Yeah... what to fucking tell you. So again, the whole you can't call a trip with kids a vacation. It's a family trip. Have you had a vacation yet? Was Mexico City a vacation?
• 23:54
  And again, we've talked a lot about, like, setting expectations here and redefining- Mm-hmm... what words mean, but we've had adult vacations I, I feel like.
• 24:02
  So have you gotten close to vacation with the children at all, or is it still just- Yeah.
• 24:05
  Well, one thing that was kind of ironic was that a bummer literally was that both my husband and my older son got traveler's illness, and it truly, it really was r- it was rough on them. Mm-hmm.
• 24:16
  And they both had to skip at least one cool adventure.
• 24:19
  And we made it through, again, doing that with a kid who's old enough to get himself to the toilet and to say his symptoms and to be able to eat, you know, a little bit, like-God, I can't imagine doing that with a baby.
• 24:29
  But in a weird way, that kind of forced us to shake things up a little bit, and if one of us were with the kids all day, we would take a turn and someone would do a little sightseeing on their own, which is great.
• 24:41
  And people have told me that in the past anyways, if you travel with family, do what you can do to break things up.
• 24:46
  And if you can get one person to watch the kids for a couple hours so you can just go be by yourself for a little bit, that is so huge, not just for your own pleasure, but just to just get away from your family for a second, so- I'm not good at that.
• 24:57
  No one needs that more than me or my wife, and I'm the monster who's, "No, we should experience everything together." I ruin it. Yeah.
• 25:04
  You sound like my husband, who, like, w- wants to spend as much time together as possible. And I'm still selfish, and I'm still partially like a college student studying abroad, where I'm like, "No, I want my adventure."
• 25:14
  Like, I want my wanderlust. Mm-hmm. But then C- Steve took the kids on a Monday.
• 25:19
  All the real museums were closed, so we went to all these bullshit museums, and one of the ones that the kids wanted to go to was the Ripley's Believe It or Not, and I put my foot down. I'm like, "I'm not going there.
• 25:28
  I'm not doing that." Mm-hmm. And so he took them, and I wandered around. I found some monument I walked myself to. I went to a grocery store and just looked around.
• 25:36
  You know, just, like, to just be alone for a little bit. And another- Fucking Ripley's. Jesus Christ.
• 25:41
  [laughs] And my kids said the same thing when we went to London, 'cause there's one near where I used to live, and we walked by and they're like, "Let's go to Ripley's." I was like, "Under no condition."
• 25:49
  Just like the ancient Aztecs, you know. And another thing that turned out really well, which just happened to be a coincidence, was that Mexico City's a hotspot right now for some reason. Mm-hmm.
• 25:58
  It seems like a lot of people I know are going. But a- another family from our hometown was there at the same time as us, and they have boys exactly the same age as ours.
• 26:06
  So t- they came to our hotel pool, and they swam together, and we, like, hung out and went out for dinner together. And of course, you know, you're yelling at them a little bit and telling them to stop this or...
• 26:15
  We told them to stop making fun of the menu at the restaurant. Of course, we went to this, like, taco place that's extremely casual, but, like, Anthony Bourdain went there, so you know, bow down.
• 26:24
  But the kids are like, "Oh, ew, there's eyeballs. Eyeball tacos." You know, they're making- Yeah... fun of the menu, and Steve is like, "Shut up, this is their food," you know? So- Yeah...
• 26:33
  but again, just to talk to another grown-up, especially for me to have another woman to talk to, just for a little bit, you know.
• 26:40
  They told me the phrase AAA, which stands for Age Appropriate Asshole, when they are trying to discern whether their son is being, like, a real problem versus, you know, 13, typical 13. Mm-hmm. So anyway- Mm-hmm...
• 26:51
  those are some things that really worked out in our favor. And also having a pool I think is...
• 26:55
  A pool is like screen time, but without the screen, where, you know, either one parent can take them or the other parent can take them, and if you're being a father of the year like my husband, you can go swim with them, or you can be a bitch like me and say, "No thanks," and you get, you know, your little quiet time.
• 27:10
  So yeah, it was great, but I think once you graduate past nap time, things really get better for you.
• 27:16
  I think traveling with a kid who is on a nap time schedule or doesn't eat ch- in a chill way, those are two things that are really hard. Yeah. Make it way more stressful.
• 27:25
  So let's pause there and do some, you know, candid commiserating here, 'cause we've talked mostly about when our children have been older.
• 27:33
  You're gonna do fewer trips usually when the kids are younger, like you were just saying, nap time, bottles, diapers, sleep schedules.
• 27:43
  They literally only eat a few different foods, that kind of stuff, have to have a particular stuffy, all that shit.
• 27:49
  So you do less, like, optional stuff, but there is usually some sort of required of some version, right, family stuff, Christmas, whatever it might be.
• 27:57
  How did those go for you guys, and any particular sort of horror stories or terrible things? 'Cause we, I mean, we started this cross-country travel thing when they were three and under three, and there were...
• 28:07
  You know, there's no direct flights.
• 28:09
  Again, we were lucky to do it, to be able to see family twice a year and do it, but holy fuck, if we had done one of those flights and then had to turn around, even a week later, much less, like, four days later, I mean, we were putting six weeks between them.
• 28:22
  I mean, my wife and I would take two weeks and just cry basically after each one of those. We were telling the kids the other day, they were like, "Oh, imagine pooping yourself."
• 28:28
  I'm like, "Funny fucking story, bud, you know- Yeah... used to shit up your whole back 45 minutes into a six-hour flight," and that was the rest of my day, and that was- Yeah... the first flight.
• 28:38
  Like, all the time, at any given moment, all that shit. It was- Yeah... a fucking nightmare. Yes.
• 28:44
  It never happened to me, but I learned from another friend to always pack a change of clothes for not only your child, but yourself- Mm-hmm... in your carry-on for just that reason. Mm-hmm.
• 28:52
  Like I said, we don't really visit family that much, 'cause my in-laws are cat hoarders, and, like, they don't have a guest room for us, and I'm allergic to cats.
• 28:58
  But I do remember visiting some friends who, they used to live in Chicago, now they live outside Seattle, and they have boys, and with a big house.
• 29:06
  We went to go stay with them, but our s- younger son, James, was still, like, a napping toddler at that age.
• 29:11
  And I remember we pulled up to their house, and he had f- finally fallen asleep in the car, and we left him in the car to stay sleeping while we started having, like, wine and cheese with them.
• 29:21
  And I remember being like, "Are we dicks for leaving him sleeping in the car?" But it was like a grenade, you know what I mean? You're like- Yeah...
• 29:27
  "Am I gonna take this grenade out of its car seat, or am I just gonna let it sleep here quietly?" Mm-hmm.
• 29:32
  But he never got over the time change, so he would wake up at 4:00 AM PST, and someone would have to get up with him, and that would be me.
• 29:41
  So I would get up with the kids, go creep downstairs, and try to keep them quiet for two or three hours while they are, you know, playing with other people's toys and being bored.
• 29:52
  And that was so exhausting, and I was so resentful of that. Mm-hmm. And again, that's why I've been very careful about time changes and things like that.
• 30:00
  And staying at someone else's house, which can be great, but if your kid is not cool or not chill, you know, won't entertain himself, then that is, you know, a d- Just opening cabinets.
• 30:08
  You're like, "I don't know if that one's a no-no. What is that?"
• 30:11
  It's just, it's not, it's much better to go, I think, even though it's stressful, like, a hotel or an Airbnb or whatever than, like, someone else's actual house where they're like, there's all kinds of rules, and...
• 30:22
  Yeah. It's not great. And the light is different, you know, the sound is different, things like that. Mm-hmm. Like, that was a big one for me.
• 30:28
  I also remember-It was just like a really random trip, and this wasn't even a big deal. But, like, my college bestie was gonna be in Cleveland, and she's like, "You wanna meet us there?"
• 30:35
  And we're like, "Sure, why the hell not?" I think 'cause we didn't have any expectations, we're like, "This will be fine." And on the one hand, I will say Cleveland is a great place to visit with kids.
• 30:43
  I highly recommend. But, uh, that was one of our first times in a hotel with our kids, and they were too little for two separate rooms, and we had one kind of semi-suite.
• 30:52
  And it was like time to go to bed, but it was summertime, so it's still light out. Mm-hmm. So of course they're not asleep, and I'm trying to get them to go to sleep. And my husband... I was like, "You go take your time.
• 31:02
  You can go read or have dinner or whatever." And I remember trying to get my kids to settle down, and they were in bed with me, which I don't normally do.
• 31:09
  And I remember this so viscerally, but I'm just trying to get them to quiet.
• 31:12
  And my younger kid, again, it's always him, sorry James if you ever listen, is goofing around and moving around, and he accidentally shoves his little baby finger so far up my nose that I was like, I was worried that something, like, had been damaged completely.
• 31:28
  Just the way he shoved it in there so hard.
• 31:30
  I also remember that was a, one of the few times we spanked him, because he like ran down the street and looked over his shoulder and laughed at us while he ran into the street.
• 31:38
  And my husband, like, grabbed him and spanked him out of that terror fear. I'm not excusing this. It was just y- a matter of, like, instinct. But, like, these are- No... the things that we- Yeah... live with you.
• 31:48
  You know, we are like- It's the old phrase, any parent with... understands the phrase of, "I would never shake my baby, but I totally get why people do it." Yeah.
• 31:56
  Yeah, 'cause you get into these fucking fight or flight moments that are insane. Yeah. Yeah, so these are a few things. I also have a, I have a picture of my son crawling on me.
• 32:05
  We took him to Boston, and he was just a real nightmare on this trip. Again, it was like a real try to get him to nap. He never falls asleep.
• 32:12
  I remember driving around with him in the car screaming his head off, like having a tantrum, and we were just waiting for him to tire himself out and fall asleep. But that, it's such a shitty...
• 32:22
  Like, you just feel like you're in jail, basically. Like, screaming baby jail. Like, waiting for this child to fall asleep in the car so that I guess you can just keep driving then in quiet, 'cause you're...
• 32:31
  You know, and his poor brother. No wonder his brother never wants to hang out with him, 'cause he's like a smoke detector that's always going off, and you're just hoping that eventually the batteries will wear off.
• 32:39
  This made me think of there's families and friends and adults and kids, like you can be best friends in the world with- Mm-hmm... but you definitely should not travel with. Oh, yeah.
• 32:47
  And that's either because of your family or their family, or again, like high stakes, high stress, do this, their rituals versus your- Mm-hmm... settings for different things.
• 32:58
  And this is one of the dangers of sharing a house or staying in someone else's house, right? With your kids. Yep. Is like we keep our house cold as fuck- Oh... because our kids go to sleep better. Mm-hmm.
• 33:08
  They get cozy under some blankets. They go to sleep. It's great. You go to somebody else's house, and you're like, "Oh, you keep your thermostat at 76 at night." That's gonna be a fucking problem. Yeah.
• 33:17
  Because it's gonna be a huge pain in the ass. You don't wanna set it. You don't wanna ask them. You don't wanna be rude. It becomes a whole thing, and that's why if we do
• 33:25
  hotels or something like that, we're like, "Well, kids are old enough now. We'll shove them all in one room and deal with it."
• 33:30
  But the more we can, again, in a self-aware way, be like, "No, we're, we need to do our shit," and everyone's gonna win if we do our shit, that'll be easier. But we've had a few things where we've had to...
• 33:41
  You know, so we didn't really do it when they were older and then COVID and such, and now they're in school, but at one point Dana was going to New York to make a movie. How to Be Single, I think it was.
• 33:53
  And so we went to New York for four months? Three months, four months in the spring of 2015. And our oldest was t- not two and a half. Middle kid was, I don't know, six months, nine months, 10 months? I don't know.
• 34:10
  And Dana was pregnant with our third one, and shooting nights like the entire fucking time.
• 34:15
  We're staying in this very nice apartment that we got hooked up with but was obscenely expensive and so much more than we budgeted for. And so again, she's pregnant.
• 34:24
  We've got a fucking, like, actual baby, and then we have another baby, and she's got a baby inside. And nights are like a fucking nightmare.
• 34:33
  The only place we had for our, our daughter to sleep was in a hallway, which again, is what it is, it's fine, in an actual crib. Fine, but like she could hear everything, obviously- Mm-hmm... the whole time.
• 34:44
  And I don't know what her deal was, but for four months every night she would not sleep without, one, screaming for two to three hours straight, to the point- Mm...
• 34:52
  where I was like, "She's gonna throw up," you know, that kinda shit. Yeah.
• 34:56
  And I had to be rubbing her back the entire time for her to be able to fall asleep during those two to three hours, and the second I took my hand off her back, started screaming again, turned over.
• 35:03
  I mean, I have, like, such horror movie visions in my mind of walking away and her... It, it's been like three hours. Like, how is it possible? How are you not exhausted enough? Yeah. And that was like...
• 35:14
  Again, it was less like we were out of our systems and more just it is so hard. It is a, it's so hard. Yeah. And you're just like, "Well, well, we're never doing this. We're not gonna travel.
• 35:22
  We're not gonna fucking do anything 'cause I can't do this." Right. And obviously, again, easier when they're bigger now, but fuck. And I remember we had...
• 35:29
  I mean, one of those flights, our oldest, we brought, I don't know, $200 of fucking toys and treats for a six-hour flight for him to fuck with. Wow.
• 35:37
  Screams mad the whole time until the last 10 minutes, finds a plastic cup and is just so happy just crinkling this plastic cup. Yeah. I'm like, "Jesus Christ."
• 35:45
  You just made me think about the first time I, we flew with James, and I was reading online some of these genius tips, these travel tips that, like, sound so good until you realize, like, your kid did not read these tips online as, and didn't know.
• 35:57
  And someone was like, "Buy a bunch of little tiny toys and wrap them up individually in paper, and then your kid will spend all their time opening these toys and playing with them." Mm-hmm.
• 36:06
  And of course, like, I spent way more time wrapping these things and shopping for them than James spent unwrapping them. Mm-hmm.
• 36:12
  And he spent like 10 seconds unwrapping them, and then he's instantly bored with them because instead- Throws it on the plane floor. Yeah. Like, these toys are all in the trash long, many years ago already, you know.
• 36:22
  And all we were waiting for was, like, for him to be old enough to understand screens, basically. Yeah. I wish someone had just told me that.
• 36:28
  Or, you know, when you're online, you think that nobody hates anybody more than a baby on a plane, and then-I know.
• 36:35
  I think you go on a plane ride, you're like, no, actually, people hate people who drink too much on planes or take their shoes off on planes, or- Motherfucker... you know, don't have their earphones on.
• 36:46
  I feel like people understand a baby is, like, doing what it can do. They- I remember once a guy getting on a plane, they had a baby. They obviously prepared so much.
• 36:54
  The guy had made, like, gift bags for everybody in the seats around them, and I was like, "What the fuck is wrong with us that they feel like they have to..." Like, Jesus Christ. I know.
• 37:01
  Do you think they're excited about this? I know. And also, yeah, and I'm like, you know what? As a parent, here's a tip. Learn to not give a shit what anyone around you thinks. That's the most im- Don't fucking care...
• 37:10
  that's way more important. Like- Don't fucking care.
• 37:13
  We were talking the other day about when you find real good parent friends and, like, how you know, and we talk about them a lot, maybe they're even listening, like these parent friends of ours, and they have boys the same age as ours, and we just happen to parent on the same level.
• 37:25
  Mm-hmm. Like, we give a shit about the same things, you know? Mm-hmm. And we all went to Michigan right before COVID, and we found this beautiful house, Suttons Bay, Michigan.
• 37:33
  And I just remember, I think we each had one moment apiece where we, like, w- got so mad at our kids and had to carry them horizontally. You know, like when they're, like, straight like a log- Oh, yeah...
• 37:45
  and you're carrying them under your arm. Oh, yeah. And just the gift it is to be able to do that w- in front of another parent and have them not look concerned or offer help or, you know- Mm-hmm...
• 37:58
  give you advice, anything like that, when they can just... You know, the veil goes down- Mm-hmm... and they let you do your thing- Mm-hmm... and there's no...
• 38:05
  And they come back, and even on top of that, even better, is the mom is a nurse. So when James got attacked by a swarm of bees, it was just nice that there was someone there who knew what to do, you know.
• 38:14
  But, and you know, I remember on the other hand, I have a really good girlfriend.
• 38:18
  They live in Valparaiso, and we'd go stay with them 'cause of the, they have a pool, but their kids got a lot more screen time than ours, and our kids were sharing rooms together.
• 38:25
  And I remember stressing out so much 'cause our kids, like, need, like, you know, a pitch black tomb to fall asleep in. Mm-hmm. And then this time they're sharing a room with this fun noise-making device.
• 38:35
  And at the moment, and I don't regret this, 'cause this is, you know, sleep is very important, but being like, "What are they gonna do?" Yeah. Like, "We're gonna have...
• 38:42
  Like, this night is gonna be all fucked up, and it's gonna be, like, fucked up forever." Mm-hmm. And like, we were extremely stressed out about them sharing a room with a kid who had a device- Mm-hmm... on all night.
• 38:51
  So yeah, if you can find a friend who you can, like, lose your shit on your kid in front of without them
• 38:57
  getting in your way [laughs] you know, and you all agree on the same bedtime, you know, or you all have a same philosophy about eating, gold- hold onto those friends and kiss their asses. Yeah.
• 39:10
  A- and setting expectations and shit like that ahead of time for everyone is super helpful, including yourself. Again, like, it's low stakes or here's the deal with bedtimes. Here's how we're gonna do it.
• 39:18
  You guys are this. They're this. Can we meet in the middle? Can we just do this for meals? Who fucking cares? Can they eat one green thing on the trip? Yeah.
• 39:24
  I will say, one of the things that has actually really helped us, that we stuck to, and I guess set them up really well, is when they were little, somebody said,
• 39:34
  "Don't make it," and again, they were all little at the same time, "Make sure your baby can't only sleep when it's quiet." They were like, "Make a fuck ton of noise.
• 39:44
  Leave the door open, whatever, while they're trying to go to sleep, whatever the deal is, because if they can only sleep when it's quiet, you're fucked for 10 more years, basically." Mm.
• 39:53
  And so we really tried to do that as much as possible. I think that, and, like, shoving books in their cribs when they were very little in the morning was super helpful, 'cause we were like, "You got shit to do.
• 40:01
  Flip through 'em, board books, don't care, but don't fucking call me until this time. We're not coming to get you." So the noise thing definitely was helpful.
• 40:08
  I mean, you know, we can get to tricks of the trade i- in a minute. I have two other things. One is a great story, which is always horrifying when you get to the end of it. It's very short.
• 40:18
  But we're walking through the JetBlue terminal at JFK, and our youngest was two, and we're in between something, and f- like you're saying, horizontal football carrying, and I've got him.
• 40:31
  We're probably going to the bathroom 'cause he's gotta shit, but he doesn't wanna have to go to shit. Everybody knows that one. And he starts screaming, but he doesn't... It's the words he chooses. He starts screaming
• 40:45
  so loud, "You have to take me back to my mommy." [laughs] "Please give me back to my mommy." And I just sat there going, "Are you fucking... Truly, say anything else." And people are fucking staring. It's not good.
• 40:59
  "Please, you have to take me back to my mommy. Please take me back." And I'm like, "I'm gonna fucking murder you. I'm gonna fucking... Are you kidding me?" It was such a hor...
• 41:10
  I mean, and then sneaking into the fucking bathroom. Yeah. I mean, all the bad signs. "Take me back to my mo-" I was like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna murder this ch-" It was a nightmare. [laughs] Yeah, that was good.
• 41:20
  So cha- just to change the subject a tiny bit, and then I think at the end, tips and tricks are, you know, w- shit we've learned.
• 41:25
  Like, all my bags I have pre-packed all the time with essential shit that I review every trip.
• 41:31
  You talked about having friends that give a shit about the same things, and I know this isn't really what you meant, but you mentioned in your voice memo earlier, like, how does this all square with sort of the important
• 41:42
  side of things? And it's complicated.
• 41:45
  I do believe, obviously this is, the ability to do this and the perspective to do this is pretty privileged, but I do think, just like I think people need to actually turn off the fucking news and not do it all the time or not get your notifications and all that, you do need to be able to have a safe space with your family where you're just doing shit and not thinking about that stuff, 'cause you do have to live your life.
• 42:04
  But that said, you know, it's easy to think, look, air travel is a nightmare, sure, because it's so intense on your footprint, right? If you wanna use the footprint thing. That's mostly rich people.
• 42:18
  If you look at it, it's not even close. Most people don't travel by air, like still in the world, even though that's gone up and up.
• 42:24
  It's a minority of people who do most of the travel, and it is very intense, so it'll be a big part of your footprint if you do it a lot. But even then, most people don't do a lot.
• 42:30
  And now with so many people aren't doing as much business travel. Okay,
• 42:35
  so flying is a thingThere's some places you can only get to in a reasonable amount of time on whatever continent you're on, or across an ocean, or whatever it might be, by a plane.
• 42:46
  So first things first, carbon offsets are not real. They're a fucking sham. So any airline that offers you, cars, whatever it may be, that whole market is a complete sham.
• 42:59
  Carbon offsets are different from carbon removal. Carbon removal is the thing where we're trying to suck it out of the air. It works. It's still very much in its infancy.
• 43:07
  We pull out very little, and it's very expensive, but that's a whole separate thing. Anyways, carbon offsets, that's not the answer to, like, how I make my family feel less guilty to do this trip, right?
• 43:21
  To me, it's less about, okay, well, we also drive an electric car. That cuts it down. We also eat a plant-based diet. That's fairly helpful. We all do this. You know, we'll try to walk everywhere where we're going.
• 43:32
  That's all great. That's better for you. That's better for the places. You know, it's measurable however you do it. I think there's more long-lasting, impactful, like, perspective-shifting
• 43:49
  opportunities within the trip itself besides those... I'm sure you've heard, like, the hard science, soft science stuff. Besides what is your footprint?
• 43:58
  Because you have-- And you don't have to do this with every trip, but I do think there are ones where you can make this the trip, or at least the majority of it, and there's ones where, and you just did a version of this e- even if you don't know it.
• 44:11
  There's ones where you can kind of sprinkle this throughout, which is exposing kids especially to really different cultures, and art, and languages, and food, and all those different pieces. There's so much xenophobia.
• 44:26
  There's so much America first, whatever it might be, especially with Mexico and all these Central American, Latin American, South American countries, and everywhere else. That's really meaningful.
• 44:37
  Most kids don't grow up and go to Mexico, and they might have laughed at the menu, and fuck them, but they're gonna at least remember it, and they have experienced it.
• 44:44
  And there's plenty of studies that show that, like, people who travel generally are more accepting of people who are not like them, flat out.
• 44:52
  That's really important, and there's so many different-- Again, you can go to London or Canada, which kind of feels like cheating, but it doesn't matter. Go to fucking Montreal. It's basically France.
• 45:00
  They want it to be France. That's a little something. It's a little different, right? You can start with that. You can go to different places.
• 45:06
  You can also go to different places within the US to do that sort of thing, right? You can go to different parts of LA. You can go to New Mexico.
• 45:14
  You can go to all these different places, uh, like you said, New Orleans or the Deep South, whatever it might be, to experience really different cultures within the places we have, and that really does matter.
• 45:25
  And again, you can also make a whole trip about this. So we have some friends from LA who are pretty wealthy, and not like LA wealthy, but just, you know, they're pretty good.
• 45:35
  Enough that they would do, and I'm gonna mess this up, like two-- Imagine two trips a year. One was a nice vacation,
• 45:42
  and the other one was, like, a family trip where they would go to Southeast Asia or something like that and basically be like, "This is a volunteer..."
• 45:48
  It was basically a mission trip there without all the religious rigmarole. They're like, "This is what we're doing, 'cause you're not only gonna see how everyone el- not even the other half, how most people live.
• 45:59
  You're gonna experience, and you're gonna participate, and you're gonna help.
• 46:02
  And yes, it's fly in and fly out, but in a world where you can't do everything, you cannot help everyone, we hope this is impacts you for later." And that shit I do believe does add up.
• 46:13
  It really can be perspective shifting. It can stick with people. And the other one is all of that but for nature. Mm. Right?
• 46:22
  The biggest thing, i- if I never do anything else in my entire career, I had a 30-minute phone call last year with Sesame Street about how do we talk about climate more, and there were a few other folks on the line.
• 46:34
  Sesame Street is a huge part of my life, my kid's life, Daniel Tiger, you know, the whole thing.
• 46:39
  And they shifted, I don't know, it's 15 years ago, something like that, from focusing on, I think it was four to five-year-olds to three to four-year-olds. Or it might've- Oh... been even one segment down.
• 46:52
  And that's notable in, in your programming and your audience. But this question of, like, how do you get
• 46:59
  kids who even have access to, quote-unquote, "nature", of which we are-- Everyone says, "Oh, we're in relationship with this." No, we're of it. The trees are giving you the air.
• 47:08
  If they do have access it or you can provide some sort of access for your kids or other kids, understanding that they are in relationship with it can be the point of a whole trip, or seeded throughout in a lot of different ways.
• 47:21
  You can walk through cities and go, "Boy, it's really fucking hot here. It's weird that there's no trees."
• 47:26
  Or parts of different ci- Uh-huh Notice, like, Los Angeles, there's parts of the city that have a ton of trees, and there's parts that don't. You're like, "I wonder why that is. Why is that?
• 47:33
  How do we experience that at home? What is it like?" Go to parks. Go to cities that have a lot of parks or just go on a hiking trip. Make up your own. It doesn't have to be some fancy hosted thing, whatever.
• 47:43
  Or go on a hike one day. Visit a stream. Is this protected? Is this part of a protected area, or is it just still sort of wilderness? Is it privately owned? Whatever it might be.
• 47:53
  Going to the beach, going to the ocean, talking about that kind of stuff. There's a lot you can do, again, like we're trying to do with the show, without really hitting them over the head- Oh...
• 48:01
  but at the same time developing, if not a full relationship, like, just an appreciation of it. Yeah. Spending time in it in whatever way can really go a long way. And again, you guys live on the Great Lakes.
• 48:12
  It's a complicated area, you know- Mm-hmm... in a lot of ways, but it really matters to understand, like, how precious and unique those are in the world. But you, again, you can do that anywhere, truly- Yeah...
• 48:22
  because it's all so different. So we're doing this year, it's very expensive, but it's been on my list for my entire life, and we're doing it for a lot of reasons.
• 48:30
  We're doing a trip to Alaska, and part of that is 'cause it's gonna be fucking amazing.
• 48:36
  Part of it is 'cause we are able to do it, and part of it is it has already changed so much, and it's, if I don't do it soon, it's-... you know, gonna be very different.
• 48:43
  And I want to experience it for myself, but also for them, and before it changes too much. And that is one of those, like, all-in trips, like, where you're just like- Oh...
• 48:53
  well, this is, you need to understand, like, what's here and what we're fighting for and things like that. So anyways, that's kinda my spiel about it.
• 49:01
  Again, it's a little like my work with this group called Good Energy, which is trying to get more climate stuff into films and TV. It's easy to be like, "This needs to be a climate show." Right. Okay. Sure. That's great.
• 49:11
  But also, like, every joke that we can get into a 30 Rock or a New Girl, like, three times a season, that counts, too. Mm-hmm.
• 49:20
  Because it's those little things that add up, that normalize our relationship with this stuff and what's going on, and all that kinda stuff. So yeah, I believe there's a thousand different ways to do it.
• 49:30
  I think you can consider it in all things. But it adds up. Again, taking your kids to Mexico City, like, yeah, it's hot, and yeah, it's not that far, but
• 49:37
  I mean, they are we- our second biggest source of imports, like, a, a huge culture that we've sorta destroyed, just incredible things about that place. The country's enormous, has a thousand problems.
• 49:49
  Many of them are our fault. But the biomes are incredible. That's it. One of my favorite things that we did while we were there, and this is just based... I, I lucked into this.
• 49:56
  A friend of mine, uh, she took her boys to Mexico City, and I copied her itinerary, but she recommended this tour guide.
• 50:02
  We used a company called Tours by Locals, and this woman took us to Xochimilco, the, like, floating gardens outside Mexico City. Mm-hmm. And she was amazing because she was giving us... You know, on the...
• 50:14
  If you wanted to, this could just be a booze cruise trip, basically- Totally... where you float around and drink beer, you know?
• 50:20
  But she's from Mexico City, and she talked about how this was what Mexico City looked like before it was colonized on the water, and she talked about how people make a living, 'cause I was like, "Is this a nice place to live?"
• 50:31
  Mm-hmm. 'Cause, you know, in Chicagoland, if you live, like, on the Chain of Lakes, and you have a house on the lake with a boat, you're, you've got it made. Mm-hmm.
• 50:38
  And she was talking about how this is agricultural, but even more so, we hopped off the boat to visit the farm of the guy who was piloting our boat around, and we all planted some seeds, and she showed us how they plant seeds, and she showed us how they make a living, and then at one point even our, Angel, our, the guy who was pushing our boat around, his stick got stuck in the mud, and another woman came by on her boat and pulled the stick out to give it to him.
• 51:02
  And Ana, our tour guide, was saying, "This is what life on the water is like, where you help each other out," you know?
• 51:07
  And again, it was just beautiful and stunning, and there's so much great wildlife, and we had such a beautiful time, but there was that context.
• 51:13
  And also, just as a parent, like, the not right now of it, having a professional who is used to kids, honestly, like, they've seen it all, you know? Mm-hmm. And even if you're exhausted, like James was...
• 51:25
  He wanted to use my phone to take pictures, and I was like, "I wanna use my phone to take pictures," and she let him use her phone- Mm-hmm... and sent me the pictures. It was so kind.
• 51:32
  You know, just a little simple thing like that. Be- because if you think your kids are being assholes, she's definitely seen worse. Like, they've always- Yeah... it's like a pool lifeguard. Like, they've always- Yeah...
• 51:40
  fucking seen worse. Yeah. So yeah, I was so glad we did that, and I would do that again, like, in a second. So just to get that little extra piece of context, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's money.
• 51:49
  You know, it's extra money, but I think it was, uh, in the- And by the way, they might not fucking remember, but it can add up. I'm gonna send you, and I'll put in the show notes, this really incredible link I found.
• 51:59
  I mean, Mexico City, the story of it's incredible, like, the way it was built out of water, basically.
• 52:03
  It's this incredible, like, 3D historical view of, like, literally what it looked like 1,000 years ago as they- Yeah... started to raise it out of nothing. It's unreal.
• 52:12
  Um- I will say, my kids were so excited that we could drink so much bottled water there, because at home I get so mad at them all the time- Mm-hmm... there's bottled water, and- Mm-hmm...
• 52:20
  you know, on this trip there's no choice. So they were like- Yeah... "Sweet, finally we can fuck it up- Right... as much as we want." Right. [laughs] That's right. Fuck, burn it down. Fuck. Goddammit.
• 52:28
  Again, this is not an advice show, but, you know, tips and tricks. Besides just lessons learned, like, anything really practical, and if you can start, I've got a few, what- whatever you wanna do. I think- All right...
• 52:41
  again, especially if you've got younger kids, you're like, no, the wrapping of presents every 30 minutes thing, like, Jesus Christ. What actually fucking works? What can you- All right... rely on?
• 52:50
  This is not, these are not clever or special or anything like that. These are things that we literally used this trip.
• 52:56
  If your kid is on screens, old enough to be on screens, set an alarm to go off a half an hour before you begin your descent.
• 53:03
  Because if your kids are like mine, they are so obsessed with getting the unfettered screen time and also the drinks. Like, for them, my kids, like, pop and juice, like, whatever you want is a treat.
• 53:13
  So they get so wrapped up in their screens and the beverages, I mean, I texted you this, they don't notice that they have to go to the bathroom until we're locked in, you know, literally- Mm-hmm... on the descent.
• 53:22
  So make them go to the bathroom before you land, otherwise you're gonna be all mad, you know? Especially if you're like us, and our flight ha- had to abort its landing, and you ended up landing- Mm-hmm...
• 53:32
  45 minutes later. The ol' walking around the block while you wait for your food to come. Oldie but a goodie. Mm-hmm. You also texted me that. Um, [laughs] yeah. Yep. It's, but it counts. Yep. [laughs] We're going. Sorry.
• 53:42
  Like, 'cause our younger son was just ADHD, I don't know what. Like, he, he was just being a little extra caliente our last night, and could not just be normal for a minute, so just went for a walk until the food came.
• 53:55
  You know, just get up and do it. Don't be ashamed. Just do what you gotta do.
• 53:59
  And I would say, we didn't do it this time, 'cause I didn't think we would have to, but there was so much traffic getting from our airport to the hotel, 'cause there was, like, some kind of, I don't know if it was, like, a protest or whatever.
• 54:09
  But like you said, pack snacks in your carry-on, because just imagine you will get home or to your hotel or your Airbnb after all the restaurants have closed, or after you feel comfortable enough- Mm-hmm...
• 54:22
  to go to the market. Bring heavy snacks just in case that you all need to eat something satisfying, and you can't acquire food. So even if that's domestic travel, I don't think you'd be sad about that.
• 54:33
  So those are a few things off the top of my head that we would recommend. Yeah. How about you? Yeah. I mean, those are, a- again, you only find out about those one way. Right. And it's 100% true.
• 54:44
  I mean, the bathroom thing, it is like a fucking rule.That they will not have to go to the bathroom until they say, "Prepare for landing. Put your tray tables up," and it will be an emergency- Uh-huh...
• 54:56
  not just one of those annoying ones where they're yelling and you're like, "You're gonna be fine." Like, "Why did you do this?" Like, y- they're gonna shit themselves. Now they're, like, nine, and it's not fucking great.
• 55:05
  You know, that's real shit. Okay. No question. So yes, set the alarm. Here's the deal. You're going. And they're gonna be like, "I already tried. I don't have to." Don't care. Yeah.
• 55:12
  I'm gonna fucking march you back there and lock you in there until you try. And guess what? You're gonna have to go 'cause I'm an adult, and you're wrong. So do it every time, same as...
• 55:20
  I mean, just truly, like driving around town. "Go to the bathroom." "I went an hour ago." Nobody cares. That's not what I asked. Yeah. Go to the fucking bathroom. It really matters.
• 55:28
  So my biggest cheats are, again, usually centered around sleep stuff, but also, again, since we do so little screen time, I think it really helps. So I have...
• 55:39
  There's these little bags, and you can get whatever fucking bag you want. There's these bags from Patagonia called Black Hole bags, and they come in all different sizes.
• 55:46
  Now I've got ones, I'll put them in the show notes. They're this big. Size of a, I don't know, like a loaf of bread? Like what the fuck is this size? I don't know. Yeah. Um, sure. And I have a few of them.
• 55:59
  So these bags, they're different colors. They've got labels on them.
• 56:03
  They remain in my travel drawer, not the kids' travel drawer, whatever that is, and they are not to be f- fucking touched ever except for when we're traveling. So one is kids' cords. Okay?
• 56:15
  So what's in there, and it's not just cords, but it's a lot of cords, is there is a little sound machine that I can't recommend enough that I will put in the show notes with a plug, and it can run on battery, but don't...
• 56:27
  It'll fucking turn off halfway through the night. A little... And it's got a light on it, too, so you can use it as a nightlight. And pro tip, even pro tip, second one, you put it in the kids' bathroom at night. Uh-huh.
• 56:36
  So they can find the fucking bathroom. So, and it's got a wall plug, all the things you need. They're going to bed. You plug it in, sounds like home. Super easy. Great.
• 56:43
  Doesn't matter how noisy it is, whatever, 'cause the goal here is not to teach them a lesson. It's to go to fucking sleep. That's in there.
• 56:49
  There is a, I think it's from Anker, a three-prong wall plug thing, and it's got big label on it, and I think it says, like, kids, iPads, and on the other it says, "Do not fucking take one of these cords."
• 57:01
  And the cords are sticking out of it, and it's exactly what they need for their devices, and that's... They're not using my cords when we get there. They're not taking them from somewhere else, like their headphones.
• 57:10
  That's what it's for. That's where it goes. That's what it does. There is... So we got, a few years ago, two different things. We're kind of... Do you remember the old picture of... I'll find it.
• 57:20
  It's, "Here's all the analog devices an iPhone replaced," right? Uh-huh. Compass, camera, all that.
• 57:25
  We're kinda going in reverse on that and trying to do a little more intentional and analog 'cause it can still be a great experience. It's worked so far.
• 57:33
  So two things we got are kids have Kindles, which we really only take out for travel. We're, like, driving an hour or more.
• 57:39
  The rest of the time we just do hard books, but don't take those on a trip 'cause they'll finish them or they'll lose them, and you're fucked. Uh. Kindle can have however many. Kobo is also really great.
• 57:47
  We really love those, too. Label them. Set them up ahead of time. Download the fucking books ahead of time. Charge them. A Kindle charge will last fucking w- weeks if you're good. Those stay in the same drawer.
• 57:59
  They're ready to go. They're good to go. Charge them the night before, and they're in business. Make sure the books are downloaded 'cause you probably won't have Wi-Fi, and then you're fucked. That's in business.
• 58:07
  The other thing we got are these really cool... My friend Thomas, shout-out. Thomas found these little, like, point and shoot cameras. Oh. So there's no...
• 58:15
  They're digital, and to unload the pictures you plug them into the iPad or computer, whatever. But there's no settings on them- Oh... which is really amazing, and there's no screen.
• 58:25
  It's like an old-school point and click. Yeah. They actually take, like, pretty good pictures. Oh. Like, for them, they're like, "This is fucking great." Right.
• 58:31
  So you don't need to ask for your phone to take shit, and instantly we put a keyring with an AirTag on them- Oh, wow...
• 58:37
  and then save the AirTag to my shit, share it with my wife, 'cause they need to keep track of their own stuff. But eventually I'm like, "Well, now it's my problem, and I just-" Yeah. "... gotta find it."
• 58:45
  That's good advice. Someone gave me the advice to get disposable cameras for our trip to Colombia- Mm-hmm... which is harder to find than you would think. Mm-hmm.
• 58:51
  And then the, the kids don't know how to use them because they're 21st century kids. Mm-hmm. And then my husband, you know, he's got a lot of great qualities, but he, as a filmmaker- Yes, but he's-... is...
• 59:02
  Well, they wanted to take pictures the way kids take pictures, which is whatever the fuck, and he was like, "Don't take that picture. That's, like, not a good picture, and you only have 24 shots." Gotta let go of that.
• 59:13
  Yeah, I know that. Yeah, and so they ended up using each camera I think for three pictures, and we- Yeah...
• 59:17
  I, you know- So these hold, like, 500 each on a little SD card that you don't have to take out, 'cause again, you can- Yeah... unload with a cord through USB-C. Fucking everything should be. That's the other thing.
• 59:25
  As much as you can change everything in your life to USB-C, do it so that one cord can do all the different shit.
• 59:31
  The other two things, and sometimes I have to check if they're expired, like my emergency bags, is super helpful to have at all times little bottle of kids' Motrin and a little bottle- Yeah... of kids' Dramamine.
• 59:42
  Can go a long fucking way. Motion sickness bands for everyone are huge. Mm-hmm. Our younger kid gets... And I feel this way, too. Like, reading in the car makes me not feel well, and those- Sure...
• 59:53
  motion sickness bands work. You know, they're not messy. Also, always pack at least one, if not more, just the plastic shopping bags for throwing up in- Mm-hmm... putting wet swimsuits in- Mm-hmm...
• 1:00:04
  putting dirty laundry in. Doesn't matter. That's an easy lift. It's tidy, so. Yeah. Whenever we get somewhere, we turn one person's bag into the dirty laundry bin for the trip. That's where everything goes.
• 1:00:14
  We don't have to find shit, you know, or go through it. I'm trying to think. I definitely have other stuff, but I'll put it in the notes. But- Yeah... that stuff is helpful.
• 1:00:21
  It's again, like, if you learned over and over pain in the ass, and eventually you get it there, and then everything blows up anyways. But that stuff is really helpful.
• 1:00:28
  Empty water bottles to bring with you so you don't have to buy shit in the airport or wherever you're going- Oh... that they can refill whenever. We use these little...
• 1:00:35
  To try to get your kids to actually drink water, if they can... Again, some places you don't want them to fill it up. We use these little tablets called Nuun tabs, N-U-U-N. Think there's 10 little tablets.
• 1:00:47
  They're just electrolytes. Don't get the caffeine ones. And throw them in a backpack, and it just makes the water more fun to drink, so they'll fucking drink it. Oh.
• 1:00:54
  Shit like that.Tell me, we've done this, we actually did this... So where the hell were we? Kentucky? Ohio?
• 1:01:02
  We were in some state, and we had to get an emergency refill of our kid's ADHD medicine sent to some Walgreens in the middle of nowhere. Mm-hmm. You went through that in England. So what was that like, not having...
• 1:01:13
  Right? You forgot to pack your kid's meds. Yeah. Not great. How long did you guys go without- Not great... how did you get those things over? Other things... Yes. And in addition to that, it turns out in England they are
• 1:01:23
  fucking so much more strict about decongestant. You basically can't buy it. Mm. Mm. So one of our kids had a horrific cold, and they're, they were like, "Here's a neti pot. Best of luck." Uh-huh.
• 1:01:32
  And you're like, this is... How is that fucking possible? Yeah. Give me some Dimetapp. So that was a huge pain in the ass. Bring that if you can in some way, even just like a small amount.
• 1:01:40
  We were very lucky that the day after we went, a friend was flying over from the US to... No, two days after, was flying over to meet us, like a fake aunt situation, who was coming to see a friend anyways.
• 1:01:52
  So realized we forgot it, probably texted you first, and then immediately had a neighbor grab it, FedEx it overnight to her in Atlanta- Oh... and then she brought it with her. So we went through...
• 1:02:05
  Which, again, is not the scenar- It's not gonna work when I'm in fucking Alaska, so. Yeah. You know. I try to keep the same packing list in my reminders app so I don't forget shit.
• 1:02:16
  You know, it's the redundancies that I find really helpful. Yeah, no, for sure. It's, it's funny 'cause, like, now the kids are a little bit older, they're more in charge of their stuff.
• 1:02:25
  N- more the older kid, but, yeah, he was in charge of packing his own stuff.
• 1:02:28
  And I did text you this, where he has more socks than this, but I was like, "Please double-check Paul's work," and I'm glad he did, because he packed three socks total for a six-night trip. Not three pairs, right?
• 1:02:39
  Correct. Right. [laughs] I mean, they do have socks in Mexico. I don't know the word for socks yet. They haven't given me that in Duolingo. [laughs] I can say, I can say falda, abrigo, you know- Mm-hmm...
• 1:02:49
  camiseta, but I don't know sock yet. Anyway, I, just I have one more quick question before I, like, we run into some of these quick tips I got from other witches. Yeah.
• 1:02:57
  But how often have you traveled with the kids solo, either on a plane or just a car trip, without Dana?
• 1:03:04
  I have done it historically over the past, you know, 12 and a half years quite a bit without her, for various reasons. She is working somewhere, and I'm bringing them home or going somewhere.
• 1:03:17
  Or, like, at the end of this Colorado trip we just did, she had to go to LA at the end and we came home. So I'll do that. We've done a lot of different versions of that. I drive down to the beach without them, whatever.
• 1:03:27
  I remember one point we did a trip up to Mammoth with some friends when we were in LA, and she had to go back to making her TV show, so I drove, whatever it was, like seven hours. And they were, you know,
• 1:03:38
  five and four and three or some shit. Oh. It was pretty dark. A fair amount. And again, and I'm sure she has the other version of this as well, also I'm sure it's more fun, they tend to, not immediately,
• 1:03:50
  but at least eventually within the first day if it's a multi-day thing, be a little less discombobulated at least, 'cause there's only one voice. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is interesting.
• 1:03:59
  I didn't account for that, and I was like, "Oh, look at this power. They respect me." It's not. Yeah. They just are resigned to the fact that mom isn't coming to rescue them. And I'll try to do little things.
• 1:04:08
  The good news about mostly being the bad cop is that when you're alone and you show flashes of good cop, it's so exciting to them. Yeah. You know?
• 1:04:16
  If I'm like, "No, you can buy that pack of gum," they're like, "Holy fuck, this is incredible." Mm-hmm. It's like, okay. So I'll try to do little things like that. It doesn't mean it's not hard.
• 1:04:23
  But I don't know, I also take a little pride in it. But sometimes that's the way it goes. I mean, military parents- Yeah... have to do that shit all the fucking time. Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 1:04:31
  Steve takes the kids camping, uh, because he... And he offers me the chance to stay home alone, and I take that happily, because I just really need...
• 1:04:39
  I really can't fathom the idea of being around them that much all the time without a closed door, you know? And I tip my cap to him. I don't know why he does it, you know, but happy for him, I guess.
• 1:04:50
  But I will do one kid at a time. We have a long weekend. This is the downside of Catholic schools, that there's no school tomorrow for Easter, and then also on Monday.
• 1:04:58
  So I have a bunch of Hilton points, so my younger kid, I'm taking a friend of his, we're gonna stay at the hotel in the suburb for cheap one night, and they're gonna swim in the pool and watch TV and, you know, it'll be a- Great...
• 1:05:10
  fun sleepover where it's not in our house. But yeah, I've never flown with them solo so far. But, you know, they're not total disasters.
• 1:05:17
  When we were coming back from Mexico City, like I said, we had this aborted landing, and I had just told our older kid, like, on the flight in that this happens sometimes, so that was just weird timing that he, you know, like he at least knew what was going on.
• 1:05:28
  And our younger kid is such a screen monster that at least in this case it worked to his benefit. He didn't notice it at all.
• 1:05:34
  He had no idea that we were, like, inches from the runway, and then back up over Lake Michigan- Fucking incredible... a moment later. Yeah. Yeah. Good for him. I...
• 1:05:42
  You know, the other thing we actually alternately try to do, or I have tried to do, like
• 1:05:47
  to think, and I think I'm somewhat justified in, in the past, like probably five, six years, I've really tried to actually do the opposite more, which is just send Dana away.
• 1:05:56
  So instead of me traveling alone with them, which is complicated, and I think she appreciates when it's necessary or out of, out of want, more often I'll be like, "Get the fuck out. Just get the fuck out of here."
• 1:06:06
  Part of being on the East Coast now, she's got some friends in New York who've been there forever that we never just saw 'cause our kids were so small and it was such a pain the ass. I'm like, "Go the fuck up there."
• 1:06:14
  Mm-hmm. You can take a plane up or take a train back. She doesn't mind the long train. It's great. It's still time by herself.
• 1:06:19
  I try to grant her that, because there is nothing quite like fucking traveling by yourself, and you're like, "I'm gonna get there when I get there.
• 1:06:26
  I'm gonna buy whatever snacks I want, and then I'm gonna sit and poop for 40 fucking minutes before this plane takes off, 'cause I'm not worried this dumbass is, like, licking the bathroom floor." Did you...
• 1:06:35
  I don't know if we were talking last year this time, but I went on a family vacation with just my immediate family, without my kids, to a family wedding in California, and I got pink eye, which was, like, disgusting.
• 1:06:48
  Ugh. It was so gross. But [laughs] I ended up being in my hotel room by myself for two nights or three nights. And on the one hand, boo-hoo. On the other hand, Quinn, I gotta say- Oh, my God...
• 1:07:00
  there are worse ways to spend a weekend than just- Give me the pink eye... weeping milk out of your eye, watching TV, like, being beholden to only yourself, you know? Yeah. [laughs] No, it's the dream. It's the dream.
• 1:07:12
  As long as it's not, like, a norovirus, I'm gameYeah, exactly Yeah. No, I really do try to support that, and she really tries to support me doing it.
• 1:07:21
  My version is usually less far-fetched, literally and philosophically, and more I literally will just go into the woods with a friend, and we'll take gummies and watch Hunt for Red October for 48 hours straight- Yeah...
• 1:07:33
  and eat lasagna. Yeah. And that's good enough for me. Yeah. That recharges me.
• 1:07:36
  Steve is going to Aruba for a work trip and, and, uh, with- like, in two weeks, and he's tacking on a few days to, you know, tour around and stuff. And he keeps offering to come back early. I'm like, "No, do it.
• 1:07:46
  I want you to have fun." I also secretly am, you know, making a note in my tiny notebook. I'll get mine. Don't worry.
• 1:07:51
  Is it Billy Madison or Happy Gilmore where Steve Buscemi puts on the lipstick and he's got the people to kill list behind him? Yeah. [laughs] You know? Yeah, exactly. And he crosses out his name.
• 1:07:58
  But, you know, I'm happy for him 'cause we... I mean, we talked about this before. I used to...
• 1:08:01
  He used to never wanna go do his own fun stuff, which, like, made me mad because I wanted to for myself and also you need to go away. Like, you need to go have your own adventures, come back, you know- Mm-hmm...
• 1:08:12
  come back refreshed. Mm-hmm. Like, we need to miss you, you know? And so I'm glad he's kind of given in, you know, and allowed himself to experience those things. And it matters.
• 1:08:20
  I mean, when we got married, we went on our honeymoon, and I remember this woman, like, friend of a friend of the family, you know, it was, like, this 70-year-old French woman and grown kids.
• 1:08:30
  And her first thing, you know, we're in, like, day one of our honeymoon, and she's like, "You guys gotta get away, just the two of you. You gotta stick to that."
• 1:08:37
  And then we didn't do it for 10 fucking years for a variety of reasons.
• 1:08:40
  And the first time I proposed to Dana to do it, not proposed to Dana, but the first time I was like, "Listen, we really need to get away," she literally said, "Fuck you. Get out of this room."
• 1:08:50
  And I was like, "Well, that just shows me we need to do this more." And that was years ago. And, and we've gotten better, but doesn't mean it's not necessary, also doesn't mean it's...
• 1:08:58
  You know, it's hard logistically, obviously, but that matters too.
• 1:09:01
  We went out for my birthday on Tuesday night, and there is a moment at the beginning of the night where I'm like, "Oh, what the fuck are we gonna talk about for three hours? Jesus Christ." And we filled the time. Mm-hmm.
• 1:09:11
  Which I was proud of, but... All right. Can I read you some of these tips from Evil Witches? This is from- Fuck yeah, man... some years ago. And just... And where can...
• 1:09:19
  Will you put the link in the show notes so people can find it? Yeah. So someone wrote to me asking, "How do you make a family trip fun?" And this person who wrote said they have a 15- You don't...
• 1:09:27
  -year-old and an eight-year-old, "And every time we go to the beach or something, it just feels like we're cramming ourselves into a smaller, different space.
• 1:09:34
  Desperate to know what other witches do to make vacations work for their families." Okay. So here's some advice I got from other people. Number one, don't expect to relax.
• 1:09:42
  Number two, have brutally low expectations, especially regarding the number of things you can do in a day. Number three, if your kid still naps, do whatever you can to respect the nap.
• 1:09:51
  Number four, a house or condo is a billion times better than a hotel room if possible. What else?
• 1:09:57
  We usually don't try to do more than one thing a day and reserve the afternoons for quiet time, which used to be the kids napping, but now will be the kids on screens so the adults can go read in the nice outdoor space or sit in the hot tub.
• 1:10:09
  Don't worry at all if the kids live on french fries or whatever the whole trip. They can eat vegetables at home. One person said, "Once your kids are old enough to go to a kids' club at a resort, book it.
• 1:10:20
  We did this a few years ago, and it feels like the only time it felt like a real vacation." Okay. All of them are lower your expectations, right? Yeah. Do the things you need to do to make it easier on you.
• 1:10:30
  It's pretty straightforward. But again, without something like Witches, which is such a wonderful community for this sort of thing, it's people who have been through the fucking grinder- Yeah...
• 1:10:40
  and are still going through the grinder, and are like, "No, let me pass this on," which is the only way we've survived. Yeah. But we don't... Uh, we talk about it all the time.
• 1:10:46
  One, you're doing great, and two, you don't have to do this alone. It's fucking impossible. Oh, someone recommended home exchange.
• 1:10:53
  I'm not familiar with it, but it's a way to save money and establish routines during a vacation.
• 1:10:58
  And I've done that with a friend without a program, just swapping houses, especially if they have kids the same age as you, kinda- Mm... you know, same kind of toys they'd be interested in.
• 1:11:06
  And my last piece of advice is if you are a drinker, try not to drink too much after the kids go to bed, 'cause then your kids are gonna be getting the fuck up at 5:00 in the morning, and they're not gonna respect your hangover or anything like that.
• 1:11:19
  So try to just...
• 1:11:21
  You know, even though it's a vacation, like, your body doesn't know that, and your kids don't know that, so just, you know, mind your hangovers, 'cause that will make you a lot more miserable, I think, in the mornings.
• 1:11:32
  It really does.
• 1:11:32
  And truly, the last thing is as far as, like, supporting a partner, if you have one, whether you hate each other at the moment or not, and again, you can make fun of this quote, and it's appropriate to, but you were saying, like, split it up, split up jobs.
• 1:11:45
  Like, whatever you can do is... And we've tried to lean into this more.
• 1:11:48
  There's this quote by a guy named Tom Peters that says, "The most selfish act of all is kindness, because its reward is so much greater than the investment." And
• 1:11:58
  think about how you feel when your partner comes downstairs or upstairs or whatever after an hour and says, "The kids are down," and you didn't fucking have to do anything, how incredible that feels.
• 1:12:10
  Pay that forward sometimes. And like you said, you can scribble in your little notebook, "I'm gonna get mine." [upbeat music] That's it for this week. You're gonna make it.
• 1:12:28
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• 1:12:38
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• 1:12:45
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• 1:12:53
  Head to notrightnow.show for more, or send us feedback, questions, horror stories, doxing, whatever it is, at questions@notrightnow.show.
• 1:13:04
  [upbeat music]