Latest / Downshift With Tonnika / Shop Owners: Maybe YOU'RE the Problem | Tristin Sweeney - 38

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Shop Owners: Maybe YOU'RE the Problem | Tristin Sweeney - 38 · Downshift With Tonnika

• [Tristin Sweeney] (0:00 - 0:23) We have made automotive pretty unattractive to work in, frankly. The benefits suck, the pay sucks, the hours sometimes suck. That's getting less common. You have to work for, on average, some grumpy old person who is not super interested in adapting the way they do things to the way the next generation of people wants to be communicated with, managed. Not a super compelling offer. [Intro] (0:23 - 0:37) Welcome to Downshift with my sis, Tanika Haynes. We all know as shop owners, sometimes you got to slow down in order to speed up. And that's what this podcast is all about. It's time to downshift. [Tonnika Haynes] (0:42 - 0:44) You're so busy all the time. [Tristin Sweeney] (0:46 - 0:49) I am very busy all the time, for better or worse. [Tonnika Haynes] (0:50 - 0:58) For better. For better. I'm going to be like all nosy and all up in your Kool-Aid today. How old are you? How old am I? [Tristin Sweeney] (0:58 - 1:01) 29. I love it. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:02 - 1:21) All right. So we have a mutual friend. I didn't know until we went out to a concert together. Patrick from the Audi Club from Hunter Equipment. Oh, yeah. Patrick's great. Yeah, he mentioned you. We were at the Dave Matthews Band Concert last weekend. I was like, the world is itty bitty small. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:22 - 1:23) Indeed it is. Yeah. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:23 - 1:25) So you're an Audi lover. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:25 - 1:43) I am an Audi lover, as is evident by the wagon behind me. Yes. So that's kind of the beginning of my automotive story is I've been involved in the Volkswagen Audi scene as an enthusiast since I was like 13 or 14. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:44 - 1:48) Really? What was your first VW? What was the first one? [Tristin Sweeney] (1:48 - 1:55) First VW was a 2003 24-valve VR6 GTI. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:57 - 2:04) My first car that dad bought me was an 87 Golf. That's all I can tell you about it. I loved it. Very nice. [Tristin Sweeney] (2:04 - 2:05) I loved it. [Tonnika Haynes] (2:05 - 2:20) You know, with the little hatchback and I had like, I don't know. I want to say they were 15s, but they probably were 10s in the back. Subwoofers and all loud stick shifts. She was beautiful. Maroon. So that's the only Volkswagen I've ever had or Audi anything. That's it. I'm a Mercedes girl. [Tristin Sweeney] (2:20 - 2:22) Ah, okay. All right. [Tonnika Haynes] (2:22 - 2:23) So poor you. [Tristin Sweeney] (2:24 - 2:38) Yeah. So yeah, so that's kind of where my whole like automotive journey started. So yes, I've known Patrick for a while. I got pretty involved in all of the Volkswagen Audi things up here in Raleigh once I got up here. [Tonnika Haynes] (2:39 - 2:52) Do you do the cars and coffee stuff too? Oh, yeah. I wish I was into that. It's just too many children out there. But I think that's great because that's how you started, right? I got to start from somewhere and I got to get the bulk from somewhere. [Tristin Sweeney] (2:53 - 3:14) And it's also what keeps our industry going. Mechanics, technicians, service advisors, maybe to a lesser degree. That's where it starts is like some fascination with the whole concept. I think very few people end up being career technicians just sort of randomly in their 20s. It usually sort of starts from a pretty young age. [Tonnika Haynes] (3:15 - 3:17) Have you ever turned a wrench in a shop? [Tristin Sweeney] (3:17 - 3:47) Absolutely. Oh, yeah. The running joke is that if I am turning a wrench for a customer car, it means the week has gone completely off the rails. I will absolutely step in and help out wherever is needed. And I've been building and modifying things as a hobby since I was, like I said, a kid. So I'm not a conventionally trained technician by any means. But I know enough to be dangerous. [Tonnika Haynes] (3:47 - 4:04) Uh-oh. So you said something a couple of seconds ago. I'm going to dial back. Come on, bring that back. You said, maybe not service advisors. What was that little thing you said about service advisors? Fix it. Meaning like from the standpoint of- You're going to get in trouble for that. So let's go ahead and fix that. [Tristin Sweeney] (4:05 - 4:31) I'll own that one. The persona of the person who is a service advisor more often than the person who is a persona of a technician, I would be less convinced that they definitely were at a Cars and Coffee or Cars and Coffee event as a kid getting really interested in it early, where I think that's almost universally true for technicians. I don't think I would say that's universally true for service advisors. I think you can know nothing about cars and be a very good service advisor. [Tonnika Haynes] (4:32 - 4:36) Okay. See, he fixed it, people. Make sure you don't get thrown on a bus in a clip. [Tristin Sweeney] (4:37 - 4:40) Oh, I'm sure it will run over me with the bus at some point today. [Tonnika Haynes] (4:40 - 5:24) Somebody's going to run over you with a bus. My service advisor, she's a young girl. She's a car enthusiast. She loves cars. She's a BMW chick. And she's at Cars and Coffee all the time. And I think Haley's 22 or 23 now. So they're out there. But- Oh, for sure. They're definitely out there. Yeah. Young lady or young man that enjoys vehicles, but just does not have the mechanical wits about them to be a technician, there's plenty of other places to go in the industry. So you don't necessarily have to be under the hood or under the car. Get the front office. You can do all kinds of things. So yeah, there's opportunities for those kids. And like you said, that's how the industry, they get that bug, get bit at a car show or something like Cars and Coffee. And then it sticks with them. So it stuck with you. You said you started about 13 is when you fell in love with vehicles? [Tristin Sweeney] (5:25 - 6:25) Yeah, I think 13, 14. Because I wasn't a Hot Wheels kid. I didn't have the little race track on the carpet. I didn't have cars or truck toys. I was a sports kid. Anything that was a ball was kind of my thing as a kid. And my brother was the one who was really more into things like that, having the cars and Hot Wheels. And I think as I got closer to driving age, my dad is a driving enthusiast and car enthusiast, but driving enthusiast. And so I think as I got close to being able to drive, I started to really grasp onto that. And that, I think, was probably what prompted it more than anything, is that I really, I was so excited to be able to drive. And that sort of led to this love of cars that has now spiraled to a place that I did not have any intentions of it getting. If you asked me five or six years ago, if this is where I thought I would be sitting, the answer would definitely have been no. [Tonnika Haynes] (6:26 - 6:28) So where were you sitting five or six years ago? [Tristin Sweeney] (6:29 - 7:06) Five or six years ago, I would have been a product slash operations leader for an early stage startup. At that time, I would have been in the brain health space. So I worked for a company that kind of similar to the concept of Calm or Headspace with enhanced meditations and things like that. I was working for a company that did that and running their product team. Not because I had any particular tie to that industry, but that's just kind of where I landed. [Tonnika Haynes] (7:07 - 7:17) So how in the heck did you shift? You like how I did that? Into automotive. You see what I did there? It's early in the morning too, and I'm coming with it. [Tristin Sweeney] (7:17 - 9:17) That's outstanding. How did I shift into automotive? The answer is actually very straightforward. I left, or I got laid off from a startup in Seattle in late 2023. Mm-hmm. Is that right? Yeah. Late 2023 or mid-2023. And we had just recently at that company, we had just recently hired a gentleman who we affectionately call Holdy, his name's Ryan Holdaway. And he had just gotten hired at Shop Genie after layoffs. And he called me in November and he was like, hey man, what are you doing? And I was like, still kind of just figuring it out, took some time hanging out with family. And he said, I have a place that you, I think, would love. And I said, sounds great. And I sat down on a single call with the Shop Genie team and I was like, I'm in. If you guys are up for it, I'm up for it. This couldn't be more ideal as kind of the intersection of what I'm passionate about as a hobby and what I'm at least decent at professionally, which was building software professionally and then kind of being in the auto repair space. So that's how I met the Shop Genie guys. I went on to be a relatively core part of that team through a crazy track of growth and then an eventual acquisition by Techmetric. And somewhere along the way there, I decided that this was it. This was going to be the industry that I was going to kind of dig my heels into. I fell in love with the people. I fell in love with the industry itself and with the opportunity that was still here. So that's why we're sitting here today. That's why I'm sitting in my auto repair shop right now. [Tonnika Haynes] (9:17 - 9:30) Yeah. So a lot of people don't know, other than Shift, you have Honest Automotive too. So this man has two businesses. He's a crazy man. I do. You like torturing yourself. Is that what's happening here? [Tristin Sweeney] (9:30 - 9:46) Yeah. It wasn't intended to play out this way. Yeah, it has played out this way. And I am, yeah, probably not. All the screws aren't completely tight. [Tonnika Haynes] (9:47 - 9:47) Nobody's. [Tristin Sweeney] (9:47 - 9:56) Definitely. No. But yes, I spend a good bit of time explaining to friends, family, or otherwise what might be wrong with me. [Tonnika Haynes] (9:57 - 9:59) So which one came first, Honest or Shift? [Tristin Sweeney] (10:00 - 10:01) Honest. [Tonnika Haynes] (10:01 - 10:07) Honest. Okay. How long have you had that? Because I'll let you tell the story, but I know you bought another shop. [Tristin Sweeney] (10:08 - 10:08) That's correct. [Tonnika Haynes] (10:08 - 10:11) So you acquired a shop from someone. How did that go? [Tristin Sweeney] (10:11 - 13:27) I acquired a shop from someone. So I started the process of that in July of 2024, was kind of when I decided that. So this was pre-ShopGenie Techmetric stuff. We were just kind of in the thick of it at ShopGenie. And I was just like, I love this. I love this industry. And I want to figure out how to build better products. And the best way to figure out how to build better products is to be as close as you can to the problem. And you can't get much closer than sitting in it. So that was really the whole precipice behind me wanting to do this. On top of the fact that I like cars and I was the car guy friend for every person in my life. And honestly, I know too many people. And so with a weird degree of frequency, I would answer a phone call or a text message of like, hey, so-and-so's wrong with my car. Where should I go? Do you have a recommendation? And I was like, you know what? We can kind of just funnel this into one place that I can have a little bit of control over, and it'll be a good setup. So I set out to find a place. Wasn't trying to force it, but if the right place presented itself, then I was ready to jump on it. And so I found a spot in Cary, North Carolina, which was just down the road from where I live in Durham, not far from you. And I found it on Facebook. This particular owner sent a message in an auto shop owner's Hangout group, actually, and said, shop for sale in Cary, North Carolina. And there were like 47 comments in 35 minutes of people being like, oh my god, where, who, what, how much? Because as you are well aware, this whole area is a relatively compelling place to open almost any kind of business. But specifically for automotive, it's kind of the perfect mix. We're a tier two city. We have a high density of commuter people. We have plenty of roadway space, which means a lot of miles getting put on the cars. Not overly harsh on cars. We don't have super, super hot. We don't have really a ton of rust issues. As far as compelling places to open an auto repair shop goes, the Triangle is pretty high up there. North Carolina as a whole, I think, is a really compelling place. So needless to say, there were a bunch of people interested. The guy didn't say anything else after this. He didn't respond to a comment. He didn't give any more details. As far as that post ever got was shop for sale in Cary. So I started Facebook sleuthing. And I found his Facebook profile. And I found his wife's Facebook profile. And I went back like seven years to where one of them posted about the shop. And I figured out what shop it was. And I got in my car, which at the time was a Golf R that was wrapped in shop genie livery. We'd wrapped it to take it to ASTA that year. And had it parked outside the venue at the expo. And so I rolled up to the shop in my wrapped shop genie car. And I walked inside. And I was like, is Carlos here? And he was. And I said, are you still going to sell the shop? And he looked very confused as to how I might. [Tonnika Haynes] (13:27 - 13:29) I thought you were going to sell him something. [Tristin Sweeney] (13:29 - 14:00) Well, yeah. Yes. Most people, I think, probably assume I'm going to come sell them something just based on everything about me. And yeah, that kind of kicked off, to make a long story short, that kicked off a six-ish month negotiation process and due diligence and everything. And then ultimately I closed on the shop at the beginning of February of 2025. And so we are heading right into my 16th, 17th month in business. [Tonnika Haynes] (14:01 - 14:04) Are you going to make it? How many gray hairs have popped up? What's happening? [Tristin Sweeney] (14:04 - 14:11) I have not found a single gray yet. This is an ongoing teasing battle between my wife and I. [Tonnika Haynes] (14:12 - 14:13) No grays yet? [Tristin Sweeney] (14:13 - 14:15) No grays yet. They're definitely on their way. [Tonnika Haynes] (14:15 - 14:29) Because you're in it. See, the way you're looking at it, of course you love cars, but you're looking at it. Did you buy it to build or did you buy it to play? What are your plans with this? [Tristin Sweeney] (14:32 - 16:20) I mean, I guess both to some degree. I refuse to do things that don't make me happy. Especially from a work standpoint. So if I didn't really want to be doing this, I wouldn't be doing it. And then I kind of stand by that. And I also stand by that when I recommend things for people. It's like, I love helping people find whatever it is that they're passionate about. I think on one of my social media bios or something, the tag is find your passion. That's the thing that really pushes me forward. And so I am and always have been passionate about helping people. And automotive is a really unique approach to how you can help people. Ultimately, everybody has to get their car worked on somewhere. The where is the only variable, which makes this business really intriguing. Because I don't have to sell anybody on anything. I just have to provide a compelling experience. And I have to provide a compelling experience in an industry that historically the bar has been on the floor. So it's not like you have to go. It doesn't have to be over the top. It's just like, I'm just trying to be a little bit better. Yeah. Treat people well. Be good to people and do good work. So that part of it is, to answer your question, that part of it is kind of play for me. The build side is I needed to understand the industry at a deep enough level to build the best software products that the industry has ever had. Okay. And that is the serious side of it for me, of the underlying why, other than I really am having fun with this. And it's a great business that I enjoy being a part of. The deeper why was to understand the industry, be able to relate to owners, and be able to speak and build from a very educated place on today's issues in automotive. [Tonnika Haynes] (16:21 - 16:26) So Honest Automotive is not only your shop. It's also your lab. [Tristin Sweeney] (16:27 - 16:27) Absolutely. [Tonnika Haynes] (16:28 - 16:47) Okay. Dexter's laboratory. I love it. But who else? There's another young man that works along with you. I can't remember his name. Tell him. Don't be mad at Ms. Tanika. I cannot remember your other, the young man I met in Kansas. How'd you meet him? On the shift side. [Tristin Sweeney] (16:48 - 18:18) Yeah. So there's actually four co-founders of Shift, which most people don't know. So I think the gentleman you're talking about is Saim Raza. He is another one of our co-founders and our COO. Saim and I worked together at the company that we both got laid off from before I started at ShopGenie. The company's name was Gordian Software. We were a travel technology company in Seattle. And it was a Y Combinator-backed Series A startup that was big and fancy and a huge opportunity for both of us. And there's actually a long, funny story of how that company unwound that I'll save for another time. But that is how we met. So we worked together there. And then after I left Techmetric post-ShopGenie acquisition, Saim called me and was like, hey, what are you doing? I was like, right now I'm sitting at the front desk of my shop selling service. And he was like, well, what are you planning on doing? And I was like, honestly, I'm here to figure out what else is wrong with this automotive industry and then do something about it. And he basically was like, oh, that's funny. Like, me and a couple other friends have been looking at something similar. And so that kind of just kicked off a series of conversations that led to us starting shift. [Tonnika Haynes] (18:19 - 18:27) So what is the most frustrating thing that you found as a shop owner that you said, you know what? This has to be fixed and I'm going to build it myself. [Tristin Sweeney] (18:30 - 19:04) That basically describes most features in shift. That's how almost all of them start is it was just like, whatever was for the early side of things, it was like, whatever the flavor of the week of the thing that was driving me crazy was, was what we would like, what we would solve. And then we go validate it against what other owners were experiencing. But I think as a general theme, I hate when technology is working against us in the sense that we have access to all of this technology and then we still do things super manually. [Tonnika Haynes] (19:05 - 19:08) And it's like, this is not a technology problem or a people problem though. [Tristin Sweeney] (19:10 - 20:14) It can be both. I think in the examples that I'm talking about, it's a technology problem. There wasn't, no one had provided them a way to do this with technology yet. So we did it manually. Now, once provided the tools, if you still decide to do it manually, that's a people problem, not a technology problem or a process problem potentially. But so yeah, I think generally I hate manual workflows that could be automated. The way I describe it is like activities that are low value inputs that have high value outputs or things that are tasks but not skills. People spending time doing that instead of people spending time on the impactful things like taking care of customers and ensuring cars are fixed at a high quality and in an efficient time frame. That's what inside of the shop you can spend time on that delivers results for you. Spending time scanning across two different data sets and looking for where things overlap or spending time moving data from one electronic place to the other because nobody bothered to build a connection. Those are not good uses of people's time. [Tonnika Haynes] (20:17 - 20:43) So I'm going to switch it up on you a little bit. I don't want to get too technical because then my eyes start glassing over. Let's go back and talk about, get personal. I'm nosy. So you're always on the move. When do you rest? Because the last time I saw you was that in Morrisville at the go-kart and you were tired. You had literally just got off the plane to come receive this award from ASDA. When do you rest? [Tristin Sweeney] (20:47 - 22:53) It's not a lot, but I'm conscious to take care of myself. I've been doing this from an early stage startup and business standpoint. This has been my entire career. I have been, I don't know if I would self-describe myself as a workaholic, but I would say anyone else in my life would probably describe me that way. And it's largely because I do things that I love to do. But my body tells me kind of when it needs some time. I'm a night owl. I'm not an early morning person at all. And so I get my four to seven hours of sleep a night. It's usually six. I think six is probably the average, five to six. I also really prioritize time for myself or time with my family or time with friends. Those things energize me. And so as much as I will work, I really try not to work on the weekends unless I have to. If there's a deadline or something I got to get done, I will. But I have learned over the last nine or 10 years that if I don't give myself that space, the things that re-energize me, then I will get burnt out and I'll get frustrated. But I do love what I do. And so yes, I work probably on average 60 to 70 hours a week, which is a lot. But you got two businesses. But I'm having fun the whole time. That's important. I'm having a blast, even on the weeks that suck. Even the weeks that suck, solving those problems does genuinely energize me. And then I have my wife and friends and people who keep me going on the personal side of things. And I try not to take work to those spaces, largely because all those people have heard me talk about work for, well, 10 to 15 years. And they don't care. Yeah, they don't care. So honestly, it's a good line in the sand. [Tonnika Haynes] (22:55 - 23:18) All right, good. Because I don't want you to be one of those shop owners or business owners that just your success burns you out. And you're burnt out at 30. And the next time I see you, you're just like, oh, my God, the industry sucks. I think a lot of people that get so mad about the industry and talk about how bad it is, especially technicians, it's because they just get burnt out. And maybe they don't have a way to downshift. You see what I did there? I'm going to do them all day. All day. I got them all day. [Intro] (23:18 - 23:19) I don't. That's the last one. [Tonnika Haynes] (23:19 - 23:27) That took a lot to come up with. But so I just want to make sure you're not sacrificing your personal life because you're only 30. It's time to start kicking out some puppies. [Tristin Sweeney] (23:28 - 23:30) Yes, you. Yes. [Tonnika Haynes] (23:30 - 23:33) And those are going to take a whole lot of energy and time. [Tristin Sweeney] (23:33 - 23:37) They are. They are going to take a whole lot of energy and time. [Tonnika Haynes] (23:37 - 23:38) Did I hit a nerve? [Tristin Sweeney] (23:39 - 24:02) No, you didn't hit it. I mean, my wife might agree. My wife might agree with you. Yeah. On a lot of these points. Yes, that is the next phase of life. I think that I'm going to have to wrap my head around. I'm excited for it. I just haven't figured out how to be excited about it. I know I am. I just haven't figured out what that actually looks like. [Tonnika Haynes] (24:02 - 24:03) You should be scared. Scared is good. [Tristin Sweeney] (24:04 - 24:04) Oh, I'm terrified. [Tonnika Haynes] (24:04 - 24:08) A little, yeah, terrified, mortified. Yeah, terrified is good. That's a good word. [Tristin Sweeney] (24:09 - 24:29) But I have accepted that I'll never feel ready. I think that was like, I'm a big, I'm a very analytical person. So I don't get paralysis by analysis. I think about it. I make a decision. I move forward. And with the concept of kids, I have not been able to do that. And I've had to just make peace. [Tonnika Haynes] (24:29 - 24:31) You're not going to be able to do that. Let it go, honey. [Tristin Sweeney] (24:31 - 24:34) I've had to just make peace with the fact that I will never get to that point. [Tonnika Haynes] (24:35 - 25:29) Yeah, that's not happening. They're just going to show up. You're going to be like, what in the hell did I just do? It's like I always tell people, Santana's 22. It's a gift and a curse. I had so much money and so much fun and so much time. And then there was a baby. And there was so much love. And no time and no money and no sleep. But I would not trade it for the world. And you are not going to be able to put that and figure that out on your computer. No, I'm not. But it's just going to be like, what? Never mind. Just never mind. Let it go. You got to let that one go. So you spent a lot of time giving back through SHIFT and Honest in the community. Why? Why SHIFT? Was it just another adventure because you're that person? Or did you really, truly, honestly, and I keep saying honest, honest automotive, do it for the industry? [Tristin Sweeney] (25:32 - 26:47) I think both can be true. I have now been a part of sort of countless number of startups where I was an integral part, but it wasn't mine. And after the most recent one, I had kind of made the decision that the next one needed to be mine. Like whatever I was going to do, I was ready to be that person. And I had learned a tremendous amount from all the different companies that I'd worked with. So that was true. And so I think to some degree, yes, it is not just another venture, but it was the venture. But then specifically with the automotive side of things, like I was, I mean, I went as far as to acquire an auto repair shop and make that my problem. I am as committed to the industry as I think you can realistically be at 29 years old, having not been in it my entire life. And I'm here for the long term. This isn't a flash in the pan thing. Like I, this industry deserves better than it's gotten. And I want to do everything that I can to give it that. [Tonnika Haynes] (26:48 - 28:31) Because as a shop owner, there's new software and technology that comes out every 35 seconds. There's so many emails, so many ads, so many booths that'll pop up at that expo. And so I really think that you have something different. It's you got, you've got boots on the ground. You know what you're talking about. You've been in it and you can kind of explain it better because you got to think about it. Most shop owners are not into software and all the computer geeky stuff and whatever. No disrespect. But you have the best of both worlds and you can guide them through your product in a way that other people probably do not, cannot do because you don't have a shop. So you can say, oh no, I have a shop. I know this is a problem and this is the solution. So kudos to you for doing all of that. Like you've got a leg up and I think it's so cool. I really do. And then the fact that you've been so passionate and how you show up at industry events and you're in there and you're in there, in there. Because I remember, oh, we're in Kansas. We're in Kansas and I'm sitting at a table full of what I would say, influential people. And hey, bro, where are you at? I think, were you on the way to the airport? Or I don't know where you turned around. And that's what I'm all about. I'm really all about making connections with people. Like, okay, you need to sit at the table and meet this person because if I believe in you, if you can get them to believe in you, that's how I think your product is going to grow. And how much have you grown? Because since Shift started, how many clients do you have then versus now? Do you know? [Tristin Sweeney] (28:32 - 28:39) Yeah. Did you meet me at the Expo? [Tonnika Haynes] (28:40 - 28:43) I feel like I met you at Expo last year. [Tristin Sweeney] (28:43 - 28:47) Okay. Yeah. So at the Expo last year is when we launched Shift. [Tonnika Haynes] (28:47 - 28:47) No, I met you at Mike's. [Tristin Sweeney] (28:49 - 28:51) Oh, that's right. We didn't meet at the Expo. [Tonnika Haynes] (28:52 - 28:53) I did meet you at Expo last year. [Tristin Sweeney] (28:53 - 30:01) We missed each other at Expo. That is where Shift launched. So we launched our product the day of the Expo. Yeah, right at the end of September. And so from that point to here, we're in over 150 shops already with quite a few that are just in the process of getting through onboarding in addition to that. And yeah, the impact has been phenomenal. To your point, I think I've always kept one of my core mission action items as a person, like showing up. That's always been a huge thing for me. And I've gotten a lot of where I have gotten in my life by just showing up and the connections that come from that and the relationships that come from that and the trust that comes from that. And so that's a very core part of who I am. And I try to bring it into who Shift is and who Honest Automotive is as well. [Tonnika Haynes] (30:02 - 31:21) So showing up is going to be a big deal. I want to dive into that a little bit more. And I might be wrong because I'm old and decrepit, but I really believe that young people have a problem with that. Communication, relationships, and showing up. Like you said, you have a wonderful friend group. Most people's friends are just online. And most people are just kids, and I'm going to keep calling you a kid, you a kid. I could be your mom. They're online with their cell phones and people have a hard time making eye contact or having the conversations because forever you guys have been gaming and you've got social media, you've got all of these things that keep you from making connections with people. And in any industry that you're going to be in, in any job that you're going to have, unless you're just in the office sitting doing, I don't know, some programming, you need to communicate with people. And I think you do a great job of that. I really do. But what would you tell other youth, and I still think you're young no matter how much you think you're not, how to hone in on that? Because I don't think kids are aware that it's bad. Even when a kid, when somebody's dropping off their car, you know, you drop off the car, they come in the shop, I'm here to drop off my car. And I'm the person that'll say, hey, talk to me. [Tristin Sweeney] (31:21 - 31:22) It's the Gen Z stare. [Tonnika Haynes] (31:24 - 31:24) Yeah. [Tristin Sweeney] (31:26 - 33:34) I don't know if I'm the right, I don't know if I'm a good authority to answer this. Like, I don't know what made me the way I am when it comes to this. I suppose I can, I'll thank my mom and my dad for the most part for that one. You know, that was always really important to them, was my ability to communicate and to be able to interact with people. My mom tells stories all the time now. When I was like three and four years old and we'd go to play group kind of thing with all the moms and all their kids, I would stand in the kitchen and talk to the adults while all of the other four-year-olds hung out with each other. And this story has now been conveyed to me by my mother and by most of the other mothers that were in that room at various points in my life. So I don't think she's making it up. But it is how I've been my whole life. I've surrounded myself with people that were much older than me, not intentionally, just kind of where I gravitated towards, generally speaking. And I think that is probably the thing that caused what you're describing, which is that I was always in an environment where the expectations of the environment were much further along than where I was as an age or as a person. And so I just had to constantly bring myself up to a place where I could blend in to whatever that situation environment that I was in was. And I think that is probably what was most fundamental around how I communicate the way I communicate. For kids today, I really don't know how to explain the importance of it other than that it is the most important thing. Like, the way you communicate and the relationships you build are who you are to some degree. But I don't have an answer. [Tonnika Haynes] (33:34 - 36:57) You don't have one? Well, I believe that even for me, to be in the space, you don't want to be in a room or be in a space that you are comfortable all the time, because that's going to stunt your growth. So one thing that I've always been told is like, you want to be in a room, and other people say, let's be in a room with people that are smarter than you. So that's you being in there with the adults and like, what are they doing? I want to be doing what the grown people do. Be in a room that people are smarter than you, whether you're a technician, shop owner, any industry. If you just be in there with somebody and latch on to a group of people that will encourage you or push you, push you out of your comfort zone. Because as for me, I've said it before, I am not a natural speaker. I do not speak to people by nature. But my grandmother, exactly. I saw that face. Believe it. If I can get my grandmother right here, she would tell you one thing they would say. What's the matter? Does a cat have your tongue? My grandma and grandpa said that all the time. What's wrong? Cat got your tongue? I wouldn't speak. But grandmother made me speak, and I could not stand it. Even when I start working at the shop answering the phones when I was about 16. It's kind of like daddy pushed me to answer the phone. It's like, oh, I got to speak up and answer the phone. These are people. Even now, if you see me and I'm traveling or I'm in a situation and I have my headphones on, I'm going to try my best not to make eye contact with you. And I've got my headphones on, and I am not ready to talk yet. So I have to turn it on. But if I never turned it on, if I never found that, OK, Tanika, you're going to have to get out of your own way and stop playing this shy girl and use your words and speak up, then I would be left behind. I'd still have an ARO that was $200. I'd still be not learning. And that means coming to an expo, going to a training, going to AST, going to tools, anywhere. Do not be uncomfortable sitting at that table with the people that you see online. For me, people that I thought I would never talk to, like Cecil. I'm intimidated by that man. He is so sweet. But I just made that up in my mind. But I was just like, I like Cecil. He got a lot of stuff to say, and he's very wise, and he has a cool hat. So let me go talk to this man. Now he knows my name. And it's just like, oh, it's Cecil. And just like Mr. Haas. I think he's amazing. And just to go out to dinner with these people. So I don't want to get off on a tangent, but I don't want the youth or younger people or any person not to speak up, step up, and stand out. Because if you do, you could lose a lot. Because there's so much to gain to just going and talking and networking, networking, networking. And so as for me right now, it's important that I introduce you to somebody that you may have not known. Because I feel like in the long run, I'll be blessed for it. And that's not the only reason I do it. But I know that I'll be blessed for it. It's like, even if you don't like him, it's like, oh, well, I met that guy. I really didn't. I didn't drive with him. So I'm not going to talk to him anymore. Miss Tanika. Okay, that's fine. Or if I know someone that's looking for a product, even though I'm currently not using your product. But I believe in everything that you do because you are in there doing it. And you are committed. And you, I believe in you. So sometimes I'm looking for this or if they say, oh, this didn't work for me. I say, oh, don't give up the whole thing. Call shift. Look these guys up. Look into this. And so I think that's important. [Tristin Sweeney] (36:58 - 37:01) We'll get you there. We'll get you to using the product. [Tonnika Haynes] (37:01 - 37:03) It's going to get me. It's going to get me changed over. [Tristin Sweeney] (37:04 - 37:04) We'll get you there. [Tonnika Haynes] (37:04 - 37:16) So what do you think the future of automotive is going to look like? You've been in here for a couple of years, 17 years. Automotive nut job. What is it going to look like 10 years from now? With all the technology and the AI and the. [Tristin Sweeney] (37:17 - 40:59) Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's going to look as different, at least on the 10 year horizon. And I think going beyond the 10 year horizon, things start to get a lot fuzzier. Because if you think about, I was talking to my business partner about this the other day. If you think about the average age of a car, it's just shy of 13 years. 12.7 or something like that. So kind of at a minimum, we have 12 years of everything we see on the road today. And what those product mixes are and things like that. And so I think the next 10 years or so, what we're going to see happen, I think you're going to continue to see consolidation. I think that's going to happen. That's going to continue to happen a lot. We're inside of and coming up on additional generational change of business ownership. And I think with that generational change of business ownership, there are basically three outcomes. There is a purchase by a third party, which is typically going to be a roll up of some sort, private equity purchase, or a group that is a smaller group that's buying businesses. It's going to be a handover, a new generation of that family taking over, or the cousin or the friend or the neighbor down the street or whoever kind of just taking over as an individual, or it's going to close. Those are the three options. The ones that are, I think, worth keeping around are going to end up in one of the first two buckets. And I think the ones that are going to close will be the ones that probably aren't providing the shining example of our industry that we would all like to provide. So you're going to have consolidation there. You're going to have a rapid increase in technology in the shop. I mean, if you look at the last, even if you look at the last like six years, seven years, there's been a massive amount of technological change inside of the shop after basically a 15 to 20 year period of almost nothing changing. If you think about your legacy on-prem systems, if you think about the way that repair data was accessed, like a lot of that really didn't change in a meaningful way for quite some time. And then there was a pretty large sort of seismic shift in the industry in the like 2019, 2020 timeframe, as things really started to transition to cloud in a broad industry way. There were early adopters and things like that, but the real shifts started to happen in that timeframe, which is actually a crazy thing to say, if you really think about it, is that 2019, 2020 is when the auto repair industry decided to embrace cloud-based software, which had been around for, I don't know, the better part of 17 years at that point. And that was how long it took for it to trickle down to the auto repair space, which is, I think, emblematic of a larger theme, which is that auto repair has historically just been very behind from a technology standpoint. Both in adoption and in like the actual solutions being available in the industry. So I think we've seen that start to change a lot. You've had a lot of companies who have sort of broken into the space and built really cool solutions and become strong players in the industry. I think you're going to continue to see that. I think even if you, I think with AI is a very good example, the conversations I was having with owners about AI 18 months ago versus the conversations I'm having with them now are so different because the level of comfort and the level of understanding I think that people have gotten to with the concept at least is very different. I think the 18 months ago conversation is your average owner was like, I don't need AI. Let's say I was. [Tonnika Haynes] (40:59 - 41:01) Not my shop. [Tristin Sweeney] (41:01 - 41:06) Why would I want that? Yeah. That is not the average conversation I'm having today. [Tonnika Haynes] (41:07 - 41:11) Because now they weren't out. How am I going to do this? Will I get left behind there? [Tristin Sweeney] (41:11 - 42:33) So that's the conversation you're realizing. Yeah, this isn't like a crypto conversation. I think there was like a large phase in like the mid 2010s where it was like, if you're not in crypto, you're getting left behind. Like the dollars going away, there's going to be no cash. And I think that's a little bit of what like the AI conversation sounded like at the beginning. And it probably didn't help that there was like a fair bit of overlap between the mouths that it was coming out of from the crypto side of things and the AI side of things. And that's not the case. Like you really are going to get left behind if you're not adopting AI in some way. And not because you can't do it manually. And not to say like no one's going to use your shop because you don't have AI. But like if you would like to build an efficient business that makes you money, that outpaces the number of hours that you put into it, you have to look for efficiencies. And if there's technology in the market that provides those efficiencies, which is basically the entire thesis of AI, and you're actively choosing not to use it, that's the definition of getting left behind. [Tonnika Haynes] (42:33 - 42:42) Yeah, that's like refusing to buy a specific tool that is needed for the line of cars that you're working on. Just because I don't want to buy that tool. It is a tool. [Tristin Sweeney] (42:42 - 42:43) It's a tool. [Tonnika Haynes] (42:43 - 42:56) So how do shop owners, how should shop owners thinking about, let's think about the back of the shop. How do we get ready, get our technicians ready? How do we keep them up to date? What would be your suggestion on that? [Tristin Sweeney] (42:58 - 43:20) I think there's a couple ways that that happens. I think training is going to be the first, the most fundamental one as vehicle systems change and things are requiring more of a technology understanding from a technician standpoint. They're not going to just learn through experience, I think, on that the same way they have been able to previously. [Tonnika Haynes] (43:20 - 43:27) It's like- You better not tell Jedediah. Jedediah's been doing this for 45 years, and I don't need no technology. [Tristin Sweeney] (43:27 - 44:38) I know how to fix the car. Jedediah's been doing it for 45 years, and frankly, by the time it's going to be a problem, hopefully Jedediah's retiring. So you let him have whatever he wants, and he can ride it out. Because this is the other thing. If you are a shop that works on, let's say, my shop, frankly, is actually a pretty good example. The average age of a vehicle that my shop works on, which I don't have the actual number off the top of my head, but if I had to guess, I would say it's probably roughly 2015 to 2017. So the car's nine years old. And the cars that are coming out in 2026, and for the last couple of years, have a lot of modules in them with a lot of diagnostic happens inside of those modules. My team is not experts on module-based diagnostics like that. And I think, to some degree, there's this conversation around, well, if you don't figure that out, you're getting left behind tomorrow. And it's like, no. My team works on cars that are 11 years old, on average. And we know when to say no to things, because they're outside of our wheelhouse. [Tonnika Haynes] (44:38 - 44:39) Right, right. You got to be smart about that. [Tristin Sweeney] (44:40 - 45:39) If I have everybody on my team go to a class for a week tomorrow and learn all there is to know about how to diagnose a 2026 model year vehicle and all the modules that are there, they are not going to use a single skill that they gathered in that for at least, on average, 11 years from now, because that's when that car is going to be in my shop. And so I think it's also being practical about like, OK, yes, there's what's happening in the greater automotive industry. And then it's like what's happening that is relevant to what is happening in my shop. And it's an important distinction as you think about a constrained amount of time that you have to focus on things and where you focus your efforts and your trainings. Think about what is going on and what you're working on in your shop and maybe what you aspire to work on, too, if that's not the same as what's happening today. And focus your energy there. Being on the cutting edge of vehicle diagnostics is not very practical if you work on cars that are 10 to 15 years old, on average. [Tonnika Haynes] (45:40 - 45:46) Yeah. But if you're in Cary and everything's a Tesla, you have a Tesla shop, you need to dive into that. [Tristin Sweeney] (45:47 - 45:47) Absolutely. [Tonnika Haynes] (45:48 - 47:58) Yeah. But if like me, cars are 20, 20, you know, we work on cars 20 years and newer. Yeah. And if the cars are 20, 26, most likely it's under warranty, it's going to the dealership. So, yeah, you don't have to spend a week on those things, but eventually you're going to have to. And that's where we have to. And another thing, me and the youth, that's why we have to start getting the young people interested, allowing them to have a space to learn and grow in the shop, because I believe, and I might be wrong, I'm not trying to call people with old brains stupid, they would catch that and catch on to that so much quicker than Jedidiah. So while Jedidiah is teaching them the basics of how to fix a car, they can also teach Jedidiah or they can also learn the modules and the program and all that stuff a whole lot quicker than I could ever grasp. So that's why we have to keep having the cars and coffees and let the kids come in the shop despite their haircut, despite what they're driving. Like, I think a lot of shop owners are very judgmental when these kids come and apply for a job. Like, I know, my daddy can't stand my son's hair. Jordan's hair is just like a nest of Afro stuff going on, but he's smart as crap. And he's like top of the class at the Mercedes Drive program right now, and he's getting ready to start working at Mercedes and carry, because that's what he wanted to do. But if a Jordan came in, he's got a sleeve on his leg and a sleeve on his arm tattoo, and he's got crazy hair, and he's got this Jeep that's jacked up on these 35-inch wheels. I don't know what size they are, I'm just being extreme. And you see this kid pulling up, and you're like, oh my God, what in the heck? But he's a flipping car genius, and he's been like that since he could, I can remember, like for you, you said it wasn't cars for you, it was Legos and cars for him. Legos and cars. So we, as shop owners, business owners, you know, the hiring people, if we dismiss these kids because they don't look the part, you're in trouble. And then we can get them in a shop and teach them how to look the part. [Tristin Sweeney] (47:58 - 48:20) I think we should also be a little honest with ourselves about what look the part means. I'm not sure that the auto repair industry is known for being the cleanest cut, most put-together group of individuals in the greater employment ecosystem. So the idea of being like, he doesn't look the part, I don't know what the part looks like. [Tonnika Haynes] (48:20 - 48:23) Well, you know, I'm thinking look the part, and then you gotta think about kids. Kids in general. [Tristin Sweeney] (48:24 - 48:24) Yeah. [Tonnika Haynes] (48:24 - 48:33) Like you're 22 years old, this kid made a mistake. Yeah, you're 50 and you made a mistake. He's been here 22 years, you've been here 50 years. Like, stop, give some grace. [Tristin Sweeney] (48:34 - 48:37) And he's been in the building 22 minutes. Exactly. [Tonnika Haynes] (48:38 - 48:38) So. [Tristin Sweeney] (48:38 - 48:47) Yeah. If we, yeah, if we want to fix the problem, because we could parlay this into the talent shortage or perceived talent shortage. [Tonnika Haynes] (48:48 - 49:29) Perceived, I say perceived because I don't think there's a shortage. I think these people just have unrealistic expectations of people, and their hiring practices are stupid, and they don't know how to hire, and they don't know how to communicate because they haven't learned leadership, which we think about running the business. And we think running a business is money in, money out. I got some money left over. Everybody gets a check. Do your job. Go to F home. You can't do that anymore in 2026. That's not what that is. What it has for a generation. And that's what it has been. And then you look at a resume and you're like, oh, they don't fit. Like, you don't fit your own shop. Shut up. So I don't fit. You don't fit. [Tristin Sweeney] (49:29 - 49:33) And I don't even have to say anything. You covered all the things I was going to say. [Tonnika Haynes] (49:33 - 49:33) That's better. [Tristin Sweeney] (49:34 - 49:39) No, in the best way. Better you say it than me. That way we can back over you with the bus. [Tonnika Haynes] (49:40 - 49:46) I said, yeah, back over me with the bus, honey. I don't know. I got airbags. That is going to be taken the wrong way. [Tristin Sweeney] (49:46 - 49:48) That is obviously going to be taken the wrong way. [Tonnika Haynes] (49:48 - 50:46) That's going to be taken the wrong way, but it's okay. Forgive me. I was looking at someone's asking for hiring, a hiring shop, a friend. And one of the comments under his post that he put on Facebook is, hey, I'm a hell of a technician. I'm just not verbatim. And I've applied several times and you haven't given me the time of day. So are we overlooking wonderful technicians? Because they don't look the way that we think they should look. Or their resume isn't perfect because they couldn't. Or you think about all the things that people think that they're looking for in a technician. And if it's not the cookie cutter example of who you want, you never give them a chance how many good techs you're looking over. [Tristin Sweeney] (50:48 - 54:15) Absolutely. So this is something I've become kind of fascinated by. I've hired a decent number of people in my life and managed a decent number of people in my life and I've hired a handful of folks as well. And I take the approach to hiring inside of my shop as the same way I take the approach to hiring inside of the software company. I hire people. I don't hire jobs. You can make room for the right person. So you come up with a job description. I've got two out right now. I'm hiring a lube tech and I'm hiring a like a slash master tech. Really I'm not. I'm hiring one of those two which sounds crazy. I currently have job posts out for a master tech or a lube tech. I'm going to hire one of them. I don't know which one yet because I hire people. I want the right person in my shop and the right lube tech will make more of a difference in my shop than the wrong master tech. The right master tech will make more of a difference in my shop than the wrong lube tech. So I want to get a broad of a swath of people and that kind of handles it because generally speaking I think people are going to try to apply up for a job not down for a job. And then that entry level job is going to collect people who aren't sure what they're doing yet or aren't happy or they're at a job where somebody's not taking care of them. And I think that's one of the more fundamental problems. It's like we have made automotive pretty unattractive to work in frankly. The benefits suck, the pay sucks, the hours sometimes suck. That's getting less common. You have to work for on average some grumpy old person who is not super interested in adapting the way they do things to the way the next generation of people wants to be communicated with, managed, handled. That's not a super compelling offer. And it's been one of my advantages honestly in hiring inside of this space is that when I get on an interview I do all of the first round phone interviews with folks. And I start out by saying we are not going to be like what most shops you've worked at is like. I'm 29 years old, this is how I run the shop, this is how I manage things, this is what my business partner does. It's going to be a different experience. If you're up for that, awesome. Would love to bring you on to the next step. But that's also not for some people. Some people want that more conventional space. But I got really off track there. I think we really need to actively look at ourselves in the mirror a bit and say am I providing an environment that is a compelling space to work in? And that is I think more of the root problem with the employment side of automotive right now. Shops that are great shops are not having a hard time hiring. Shops that are good shops are not having a hard time hiring. I'll add the asterisk if your shop is in a town of 3,000 people these comments probably don't apply because there's just a volume challenge there. Yes, that is very real. I can't. No one's going to be able to solve that problem for you. [Tonnika Haynes] (54:15 - 54:18) Yeah, we can't talk about that because that's not our situation. [Tristin Sweeney] (54:18 - 54:46) But I think sometimes that gets thrown in and they're like, well, this isn't a universal truth. It's like there's only, I can't find any people. It's like, well, all right, you're in a town of 3,000 people. So yes. Makes sense. You're right. You're right. I don't know how to help you. For the, let's assume we're in a relatively populated area, good, great shops are not having a hard time hiring people. They might be having a hard time hiring the right people, which comes down to what their approach is like you said of the type of people that they're inviting in the door. [Tonnika Haynes] (54:49 - 54:51) But the applications are out there. [Tristin Sweeney] (54:51 - 55:55) Oh, yeah. I have unpaid job posts up on Indeed right now that have dozens of applications in the last, I don't know, seven days. And I am not, our shop is not special in that way. It's not like I'm paying twice the market average or offering crazy benefits. It's like talent's there. And a lot of them aren't happy where they are. So that's the other thing is there's a recruiting side of things. I haven't dove into myself. I know Mike has done some of that and has had some success with it. But I think also the industry is realizing what that actually means. Like what recruiting means is that somebody is going to call the people who work in your shop and try to take them. And I actually, I think I saw a thread on Facebook, this was a couple of weeks ago, where something like that happened. They're like, I don't know how I feel about these recruiting companies. They're calling my techs and trying to take them to other shops. And it was like, if those techs are picking up that call and entertaining that option. [Tonnika Haynes] (55:55 - 55:55) You got an internal problem. [Tristin Sweeney] (55:56 - 55:57) That's a you problem. [Tonnika Haynes] (55:58 - 56:01) I can't tell people that. It hurts their feelings. [Tristin Sweeney] (56:02 - 56:03) It should. [Tonnika Haynes] (56:04 - 57:22) That's the point. Most of the shop problems are a you problem. And I say that with so much love and grace because I am most of the problem in my shop. But until you understand that, you're not going to be able to listen to the feedback from your employees or your clients, even. It's like people that go and get a bad review on Google and argue with the person instead of looking into what happened and saying, oh, shit, excuse me. Oh, yeah, it was me. It was us. Our process was bad. So, yeah, it's like, OK, well, my guys keep quitting or I keep getting bad guys. You hired them. I keep getting these bad people. You did the interview. Your interview process is jacked up or everybody keeps leaving. They wouldn't leave if it was worth. I mean, nobody leaves for another two dollars down the road. The right people don't leave. Some people will. But that's not exactly that might have been the nail on the coffin. But that is not the only reason that they left. Um, so, yeah, when people shop owners business, any business owner, not just shop, because I do have some people that listen that are not shop owners, which is pretty cool. [Tristin Sweeney] (57:22 - 57:29) It's cool. I do think shop owners are unique. I do. That's that. Yes. Assume you're the problem. I think it's a great way to. [Tonnika Haynes] (57:30 - 57:57) I assume that I'm a problem. And then my I had some one on ones this week and two of them were kind of tough. One was with my own son and I said something. He said, well, I don't think you're right. He was like, you know, he did say more because he still calls me my work. And he's like, and he spoke his truth. And I said, oh, well, you might have something there. And I was able to accept that criticism as the owner and the mama. And he was absolutely right. [Tristin Sweeney] (57:58 - 58:00) Did that interaction ever happen when your dad owned the shop and it was you? [Tonnika Haynes] (58:03 - 59:32) My damn shop, you can get the hell out. No. And that's the difference between he and I. But I understand that that was that generation. And he does give me my flowers on how I do things now, but not to get everything twisted. Brown's Automotive is not all flowers, rainbows and candy. We got to go to work. There are minimum things that I accept. You're not going to come in there and not work. So I don't placate to everything that everybody does. So the basics, how I run my business is how my father ran his business. I'm a little kinder and gentler, but I'm going to give to you. And I expect you to give to me in return. If you're going to be on my clock for 40 hours, I better have 40 hours of work or better. I push them. Actually, I push them, but I encourage them. Mistakes happen. Make a mistake. You don't get fired. Make the same mistake twice. I'm looking at you with the side eye. Third, okay, you got to go. So people are so quick to fire people. Hire fast, you know, hire slow, fire fast. Within reason. Work on your business, not in your business. Within reason. Within reason. So my father, we don't have Brown's Automotive. It's not been in Chapel Hill for 46 years for no reason. [Tristin Sweeney] (59:32 - 59:33) For sure. [Tonnika Haynes] (59:33 - 1:01:46) He doesn't have people that he's hired and fired over the last 40 something years that show up for him for no reason. There's good to the old school way of doing things. But that recipe is what's up. I tell people I'm the macaroni and cheese queen. I'll get you some one day. My auntie taught me how to make macaroni and cheese. I learned from Aunt Lynn. Give her your kudos. I can throw her under the bus with my macaroni and cheese now. It's the same base, but there's different seasonings, different cheeses. And there's a different way that I do it. But she taught me, she gave me the blueprint of the macaroni and cheese. But I took it to my own architect. So with my father, the blueprint of the business, treat people fair, pay people good, and do a good job. Whether you make a profit or not, do a good job. So that's the blueprint of Brown's Automotive. Now, I took the blueprint because it was a little faded and there's some rooms that I didn't like in that. And I took it to a different architect. And I made some changes. But shop owners need to understand. Okay, I know I've been doing this this way for 10 years. Boo, maybe you should try to change that just a little bit. My shop, nobody said it wasn't your shop. Nobody didn't say that. They didn't say it wasn't your shop. But maybe you should look at it a little bit differently. Let's turn the mirror around on ourselves and make sure that we are shop owners that our technicians and our service, our front office staff can come to and say, hey, I know you fussed at me about this, but I don't see it that way. This is what I see. I had a young lady do that with me. And I was like, oh, that stung. I'll get over it. But you know what I'm going to do for it from it is grow. You know what she's going to do is trust that she can come to me. So if more shop owners took that approach with employees and hiring and training and all that stuff, it's like, let me work on myself first. And I think that's where you have the advantage, being a young shop owner. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:01:47 - 1:03:48) Yeah, I think I agree with that. I think I grew up in an environment where the idea of catering, and this is probably not going to land well with every crowd, but the idea of catering things to the individual became more common, like whether it was learning styles or the way we communicated with people. I think some people probably see it as coddling. But the reality is, when we realize that everybody has the potential to be, or when we accept that everybody has the potential to be great, but they're not going to get there through the same path, then I think you can see opportunity where it may not be obvious to others in the types of people that you can hire and the ways in which you do things. People are individuals. We all know that. But when we think about what that really means and we have a team of 7, 10, 15, 20 people who all want something slightly different and we just pick a single spot on the map and we're like, well, this is what we do. They're like, oh, well, all right. Maybe that's good enough, I guess. Until somebody offers me something better versus having conversations with and understanding each of our teammates. How do they want criticism to be communicated? How do they want to be compensated? This whole universal pay plan thing, I do not understand at all. There's not a single person, nobody in my shop is on the same style of pay plan. Not a single one of my employees is on the same style of pay plan. That conversation happens with them when they sit down in the office to get hired. Here are your options. Here's the scale. You can be salary slash hourly. You can be completely flat rate. We can pick something in between. One of these is going to be the most consistent. It's also going to be the least money you make. This one's going to be the most opportunity to make money. It's going to be the biggest rollercoaster. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:03:50 - 1:03:52) It depends on if you've got a family or if you're at home with your mom. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:03:52 - 1:04:15) Yeah, what is going to get you up and out of bed in the morning and make you feel appreciated? That's not the same for anybody at my shop. Why would I pay them all the same way? Why would I treat them all the same way if they have different wants and needs? That is pretty uncommon, I would say, in the industry. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:04:16 - 1:04:38) Yeah, that's going to make somebody mad, but I completely understand what you're saying. When you say everything, money's not everything to everybody. Sometimes it's time. I need to get off at 4.30 to go get my kids. I want to pick them up from school. I want to see my kids before they get into bed. I'm like, okay, if you can get here by 7, yeah, let's do it. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:04:39 - 1:07:05) You compromise. I had that conversation with my most recent hire. We run kind of extended hours, so we're open 8 to 6.30, Monday to Friday. When we were going through the hiring processes, I came in, I live 45, 50 minutes away, I want to be able to spend some more time with my kids. Is there a way that you'd be okay with me coming in a little early, but I can leave by 5.30 every day? I said, absolutely. If that's what's important to you, then be here at 7.30, be here at 7. Take off an hour early. Get your work done. Ultimately, that's all that matters, is get your work done. Don't take a lunch. Get your work done. I don't care how we get there. It doesn't matter. And that's why the pay thing, and that's where I think people are saying, well, the only way to get results is flat rate. And I think from an objective standpoint, the only way to truly align incentives, I think it's not the only way to get results. The only way to truly align incentives between a shop owner and a technician is pure flat rate. I think that's pretty accurate at a just fundamental monetary level. But if that's not the thing that's important to my technician, then it's not going to be the thing that motivates him to do what I'm looking for him to do. If you pay somebody hourly, you pay somebody salary, and you set an expectation, and they don't mean it, then they don't work there anymore. That's the motivation. Would you like to keep your job? Yes. I'm going to be willing to meet you where you need to be. The money you need to make, the hours you want to have, whatever those variables are, are going to then leave a Y value of this is how much work, this is how much efficient work we expect on an average basis over the course of a week. And if in an ongoing basis you're missing that mark, and we take the corrective steps and things like that, and that doesn't work, then that's on you as an owner to find somebody who's going to do it and get rid of that person that is not meeting the needs of the shop. But that doesn't mean that that style of pay or that style of taking care of an employee doesn't work. It absolutely works if the things that are important to them are different than the things that are important to your teammates who that pay plan does incentivize and get them out of bed in the morning. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:07:08 - 1:07:44) And that is something that people need to hold on to. All our guides are hourly plus bonus. What if someone said, hey, I'm hiring somebody and this is how I want to get paid or for like I said, I know that you're open till 530, but I live 45 minutes away and I need to do this. Makes sense. It makes sense. But can you imagine how many people are in the shop with shop owners is like, nope, nope. And they miss out on a great opportunity for a tech cause that guy might not even take only about 15, 20 minutes for lunch, eat a sandwich, get back on it. Cause you've given him the time with that kid. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:07:45 - 1:07:46) Exactly. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:07:46 - 1:07:55) They don't look at that. Shop owners don't look at that. Like we're so, we want to be in charge so bad. Like I'm the boss. I'm the boss for what I say go. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:07:56 - 1:08:19) Cause that's all they know. Because what happened, the reason they're a shop owner is they also just had some series of shitty bosses in an auto repair shop who treated them like this. And then they got frustrated and they opened their own shop. The problem was that's all they knew. That's all they knew were the things that drove them out of the shop. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:08:21 - 1:09:50) So for me, I think the difference between me and dad's style is cause I worked with him and I tell people I never worked for my father. I worked for William Brown and I was fired plenty of times. And there's plenty of things that he said. And I was just like, what? But I didn't say anything. But I knew what that felt like as an employee. And I didn't want anybody to feel like that. But I also knew the strength behind what he was saying. Maybe it was a different way that could have been said. He wasn't willing to learn it. And he was like, I ain't learning that. But I'm smart enough to know that, Tanika, you need to learn that. I need to focus on leadership. I need to focus on communication. Like I thought when people was talking about having one-on-ones, this is stupid, stupid. Now I do them on a regular basis. It felt awkward in the beginning. But my technicians let me know, hey, I like to know where I'm at. I like to know where I'm doing. So instead of just talking to a tech when they are screwing up, talk to them when they're doing a good job. Just, it ain't nothing but a thumbs up or something corny. Like just give them the recognition when they're doing good. Same thing with raising a kid. You don't know about that yet. You know, a lot of parents will tell you what you did wrong. And then if you're doing great as a child, some people will say that's what you're supposed to do. Like, okay, but damn, can I get a high five or something? [Tristin Sweeney] (1:09:50 - 1:09:55) You can still be recognized for doing the things you're supposed to do. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:09:55 - 1:09:55) That's what you're supposed to do. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:09:56 - 1:09:58) That's positive reinforcement. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:09:58 - 1:10:24) Exactly. So I don't think people understand that that is important. Like, oh yeah, I gave my technician recognition for doing a good job. Well, that's what he's supposed to do. Bruh, are you really that evil? Like, do you hear yourself? How did that feel when your dad did that to you? Remember cats in the cradle? You don't even talk to him no more. Like, come on, same thing. We're humans. It's a people business. And we forget that part. And so you're not cogs on a wheel. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:10:24 - 1:10:29) That is the most important thing you have said is we are in the people business. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:10:29 - 1:11:14) My coach said that a couple of weeks ago and I was like, that is exactly it. We're in the people business. We just happen to fix cars for a living. But it's a people business. We're providing for the community, one. But most of all, my number one is my technicians and my staff. A customer is not always right at Browns Automotive. So if you're letting your customers come in there and dictate stuff and tick off your staff and talk about your staff and demand and demand, you're not serving the community. You're just making a jerk. You're letting that fool know that he can do this any and everywhere. But you cannot do that at 11744 US Highway 15501. I will turn your butt around. You don't want my money. I do not because you will not talk to my people that way. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:11:15 - 1:11:21) I will always stand behind my people. I will always take care of my customers. But I'm going to take care of my customers. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:11:21 - 1:13:50) But I will take care of your customers and take care of your team. I remember one guy who's trying to accuse the technician. We did like front end work. So I don't know. We did a filler neck. And his splash shield or something came off. Fender liner. He was like, oh, shame on him. And I said, oh, no, he did not do that, sir. I know you just want to blame it on somebody. Let's figure out what's wrong with your car, but you will not blame. I will protect my people. Yeah, I don't play about that. I really don't. And if shop owners just took care of your staff, understood how that individual needs to be compensated, loved, appreciated. They're all not going to be the same. That's the important of a disassessment. It's not no psychological mumbo jumbo. Me, my love language. If you tell me, thank you. I'm the happiest person in the world. You do not say thank you to me. That makes me happy. OK, that other person, they might need to. I don't know. Some people don't like to be touched. Some people like to be touched. If that technician thinks that if you're too close to him. Arms length, you need that. That's not a bad thing. Talk to him that way. Find out who that is and how you need to communicate with that person. Communicate, compensate and appreciate. And they all know what the end goal is. Get the end goal, no matter how crazy it looks. If you cannot micromanage people the way I used to try to do that, and I probably still do, but I recognize it again as a shop owner. I'm the problem. It hasn't changed. I just I just have to say, look, this is what I need to happen. We need $45,000 a week. OK, and if I sit there and tell you every single step to do that. I've given you the blueprint. I'm not going to tell you exactly how to make the Kool-Aid like we were talking about Kool-Aid. And it's read not great from Michael Gunther. I have to stop telling people exactly how to do it. Let them do their jobs. I've hired somebody. I trust this person. They know our processes. They know what. What not to do. There are some things that you just cannot do. Yeah, but I'm not. Do you guys do scripts at your shop? No. When you answer the phone, is everything scripted to the team? Yeah, I'm not going to tell you exactly how to answer the phone, but I need you to make sure to say welcome. Give them your name and ask them how to help. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:13:51 - 1:13:53) There are. Yeah, there are requirements. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:13:53 - 1:13:54) Requirements. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:13:54 - 1:13:55) Yeah, is answered. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:13:56 - 1:14:08) So there's a requirement for your work order. Required DBI's required amount of pictures, but every single detail. Some people try to micromanage all of that. Believe it. They exist. I watch them. I listen to them. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:14:08 - 1:14:17) I've been in class with them. I talk to shop owners all day. Every day. They scare me. They don't scare me. I find it. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:14:18 - 1:14:20) Well, they scare me because I feel bad for them. You are serious too. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:14:22 - 1:15:27) And I've gotten to the point where, and this is one of the cool things I think about, just kind of bringing it a little bit full circle of being on both the software side and on the shop side of things, is I think conventionally, I would be very hesitant to correct or constructively criticize somebody in the business. If I think back to Shop Genie days where I also talked to tons of owners, I was not going to sit there and tell somebody how they should run their shop. And I still will never phrase it as that. But I sit on calls all the time now where I'm like, hey, why do you do it that way? And they're like, Well, Grandada did it that way. Yeah. This is just how we do it. And it's like, I would maybe consider looking at that a different way. Here's why. I think Carfax has probably been my hottest debate recently of talking to a handful of owners who were like, I don't want Carfax to have any of my data. My customers don't want Carfax to have any of my data. Yeah, they do. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:15:28 - 1:15:31) Because when I get ready to sell my car, I can prove that it's been worked on. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:15:32 - 1:15:34) 100% want Carfax to have their data. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:15:34 - 1:15:37) Nobody's coming to get you. I don't want the government in my business. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:15:37 - 1:15:38) You are not that important. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:15:38 - 1:15:39) You don't have that much money. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:15:39 - 1:16:01) They're not thinking about you. And even if you did, they already have it all anyway. They already have it all. Just come to terms with the fact that if you have been on the internet and doing stuff for the last 20 years, they got it all. They got you. Just move on. Just make peace with it. Carry on to the next problem. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:16:01 - 1:16:02) Come on down off of that soapbox, baby. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:16:02 - 1:16:20) Yeah, right. The whole data thing, it's like, why would you... This comes, like you said, it's that same concept of like, Oh, I know there's a tool that'll do it. I just don't want it. You're like, it's free. No one's even asking. I don't want them on my stuff. Yeah, you're like, all right. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:16:21 - 1:16:24) You don't want them to have the information on your 2017 Buick? [Tristin Sweeney] (1:16:24 - 1:16:46) But a lot of times, a lot of times it's like, it's a misunderstanding too of like what's actually happening. I think that's probably just a universal truth to some degree in our industry. It's just like the assumptions of things versus what the reality is. But they were like, they get my customer's address and my customer's phone number and my customer's email address. And I was like, no, they don't. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:16:46 - 1:16:50) They get it anywhere. I mean, even if they do, it's not like it's hard to get it. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:16:50 - 1:17:22) But they don't. They don't get it unless you actively give it to them. Like there are different levels in Carfax. Specifically, you can get one where you do share things and they do CRM activities and things like that for you. The base thing that all of the shop management systems connect to by default, or not by default, but if you activate the Carfax integration, all they get is information about the vehicle. It's the information to put the services that were done to the vehicle in the Carfax so that when the next shop or the next owner or whoever goes and is like, I wonder if they did spark plugs at 80,000 miles like they were supposed to. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:17:22 - 1:17:23) Aha, they did. It's information. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:17:23 - 1:17:37) Look at that. I don't have to go waste money on doing work that was already done. Or I find out they didn't or they missed it or they just didn't take it. Now they could also take it to somebody that doesn't report. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:17:37 - 1:17:39) Who doesn't? That's how retail clients work. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:17:40 - 1:17:46) You're never going to have 100% coverage. But some data is better than none. A lot better. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:17:47 - 1:18:34) I remember what was it? I don't know when OnStar came out, but I took my Cadillac to my grandfather. So here's the thing. I think I've said this before. And if I repeat myself on this podcast, I don't care. If you black and you get a Cadillac, you've arrived. That's the old people myth. You, oh, we got a Cadillac. So I had a Cadillac Escalade and I took it over my grandfather's house and say, hey, granddad, come look at my car. He's like, oh, you got a Cadillac. And OnStar, I asked them to give him a sample of what they did. And so I say, hey, I've got my grandfather in the car and I want you to just walk him through what OnStar is. And so that's like, hey, and they told him the address where we were and he was mad. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:18:34 - 1:18:35) Yeah, I don't think he liked that. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:18:35 - 1:19:00) Yeah, you're 14, 14. He was like, oh, no. And I remember, dude, it was a 2002. So this is 2002. And granddad's like, oh, that's how they get you. I'm like, they who? Who's coming to get you, granddad? He was mad. He's like, I wouldn't put that in my truck. I wouldn't put that in my truck. I wouldn't have all that information out there. So those same people are still running shops. Oh, yeah. Just to think about it, how upset he got about OnStar. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:19:01 - 1:19:03) Yeah, and again, a lot of it's just a misunderstanding. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:19:03 - 1:19:07) Like it's a misunderstanding, not knowing what's out there and what is needed. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:19:08 - 1:19:08) Absolutely. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:19:08 - 1:19:30) So we've been talking for a while. This is good. So I'm just going to actually, we're going to downshift just a little bit. If Honest Automotive and Shift Automotive, you sold it tomorrow or it disappeared, what would you want people to say that you contributed to the automotive space? [Tristin Sweeney] (1:19:32 - 1:19:33) Ooh. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:19:34 - 1:19:36) You're moving on to your next adventure. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:19:36 - 1:19:47) That's a good one. Left it a little better than I found it. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:19:50 - 1:20:05) He left it a little bit better than he found it. And if everybody could do that, we will be all right with anything in the world. So if somebody wants to get in touch with you for your wonderful software or if they need their car fixed, how do they find you? [Tristin Sweeney] (1:20:07 - 1:21:19) If you need your car fixed, you can find me at honestautoNC.com. If any of my ads are working, I'll search auto repair and carry. Maybe that'll work. But honestautoNC.com. Honest Automotive is the name of the shop. I am here most days. Please don't ask for me. My team will probably tell you that I'm not here. But if you do really need me, go knock on the door behind the green wall. I'm on the way. At Shift, so we are shift-automotive.com. We are a workflow automation platform for your shop. We help your team. We help your service advising team sell the right work at the right time in the right manner. Make sure their quote and work correctly. We help your technicians access all the data they need from the OEMs faster. We help owners and operators kind of keep all their data together, run payroll, have better accounting records, have better HR records. And we are here to help. So give us a shout. Book a demo at shift-automotive.com. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:21:22 - 1:21:23) All right. Are you going to Mike's? [Tristin Sweeney] (1:21:23 - 1:21:23) Thank you for having me. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:21:24 - 1:21:26) Yeah, I'm so excited that we finally got together. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:21:26 - 1:21:29) I know. Sorry for having to bail last time. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:21:29 - 1:21:40) You know, it's crazy. You bailed and I was on the way to Mexico. So we both, I was like, oh, I've got a trip that weekend anyway. So you got, you're at a wedding, right? So that's all good. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:21:41 - 1:21:41) Yeah, I was. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:21:42 - 1:21:43) Coming, heading up to Mike's? [Tristin Sweeney] (1:21:44 - 1:21:45) At the Mike's. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:21:46 - 1:21:50) The AI class he's doing now? You know everything about AI. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:21:51 - 1:22:04) I asked him kind of as a joke. I was like, hey, what's, I was like, can I come to the, can I come to the happy hour after the AI thing? Listen, at some point, you and your wife. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:22:04 - 1:22:05) I got a plus one and a plus two. [Tristin Sweeney] (1:22:06 - 1:22:15) Yeah. Now say something. We'll have a different conversation. I'll, and I'll, I'll give you my, my hot takes on all of everyone, everyone building all of their own tools and with AI. [Tonnika Haynes] (1:22:17 - 1:22:53) I'm going to stop this recording right now. Downshift with Tanika is where we slow down long enough to have real conversations hosted by myself, second generation shop owner, Tanika Haynes. This goes beyond your car count, your KPIs. We want to talk about leadership, legacy, mindset, and the messy, beautiful journey of building something that lasts. You will hear stories from shop owners, technicians, and other industry leaders who are figuring it all out by themselves in real time. This is a space for growth, tough love, laughter, and leveling up.