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MK Ultra and Social Media · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: theory podcast, with your hosts Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Hidar.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy The Show. I'm your host,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me as co host this week. Ooh,
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  Speaker 2: my favorite co host of all no co host. But
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: there is a guest in the proverbial room, ladies and gentlemen,
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  Speaker 2: Zach Johnston is here.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, how you doing, Adam. It's been too long, man, it's.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Been such a long time. You were on an episode
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  Speaker 2: of On Pops approximately fourteen years ago.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, that's what we were, babies. It was Baby on
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  Speaker 3: Pups right, Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's when we were still in downtown La.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Zach. Tell people a little bit about what you do. So.
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  Speaker 3: I am a drinks editor for uprocks dot com. I
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  Speaker 3: write about whiskey primarily, which means I taste. I drink
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  Speaker 3: a lot of whiskey every day. I go around to distilleries.
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  Speaker 3: I write reviews for new whiskey releases, classic whiskey releases.
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  Speaker 3: I travel, you know, around the shows, and I do
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  Speaker 3: a lot of judging at spirits competitions New York, London,
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  Speaker 3: San Francisco places like that, and yeah, I'm your go
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  Speaker 3: to guy if you want to find a good bottle
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  Speaker 3: of whiskey.
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  Speaker 2: Must be rough. It sounds like a pretty sweet job.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, you know, it's one of those things I'd like
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  Speaker 3: to say I want the job lottery, but it's still
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  Speaker 3: a job, you know, Like I still grind, you know,
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  Speaker 3: I still you know, I turn in two pieces a
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  Speaker 3: day for uprocks about whiskey. Yeah, I'm tasting whiskeys all
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  Speaker 3: day every day.
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  Speaker 2: Does it get a little tiring.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. You gotta really have to control your intake of
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  Speaker 3: and drinking and stuff like that, because you know, some
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  Speaker 3: people they get a whole bunch of free booze and
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  Speaker 3: get a out of control and then you burn out
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  Speaker 3: and you're done. Yeah. You know, I tasted thirty whiskys
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  Speaker 3: the other day before noon, and you have to spin
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  Speaker 3: all that stuff, you know, I have to write downation
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  Speaker 3: notes on each other. So it is. It is one
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  Speaker 3: of those things where it's really hard for me to
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  Speaker 3: just go to a bar, sit down and enjoy a
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  Speaker 3: whisky now because it's like, I'd rather just have a
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  Speaker 3: Miller life, dude.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, It's like when people ask me what my
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  Speaker 2: favorite podcast is none. I don't listen to podcasts. Are
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  Speaker 2: you crazy?
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  Speaker 3: Do them? Sech all day?
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  Speaker 2: We are here to talk about some conspiracy shit. These
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: are my favorite episodes because I have to do absolutely nothing.
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  Speaker 2: This is one of those episodes that we call my
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  Speaker 2: favorite conspiracy theory where a guest comes on and just
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  Speaker 2: tells me about a conspiracy theory that they believe a
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  Speaker 2: whole bunch zech sir, what is your pet conspiracy theory
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  Speaker 2: that you want to talk about.
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  Speaker 3: I'm pretty hardcore accurate to the mk ultra conspiracy theory
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  Speaker 3: and theories right and sort of how they still I
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  Speaker 3: believe are part of our everyday life in ways we
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  Speaker 3: don't even really realize.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, if we're at a public venue, i'd be snapping
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  Speaker 2: right now, because that's that's a thing. I also firmly believe.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think mk ultra actually ended, but I want
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  Speaker 2: to hear why you think that.
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  Speaker 3: For one, I just want to preface this with I
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  Speaker 3: understand a lot of the things that we are fed
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  Speaker 3: and found, you know, online, through the news, through the
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  Speaker 3: standard history that we learn, is a lot of bullshit
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  Speaker 3: that's fed to us, and we sort of take it
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  Speaker 3: as gospel and move on with our lives because we
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  Speaker 3: don't have time to think about all this shit. My
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  Speaker 3: best example is the narrative of indigenous people. I'm indigenous
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  Speaker 3: from the reservation, blah blah blah. The narrative of indigenous people.
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  Speaker 3: You hear about the trail tiers, and maybe you hear
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  Speaker 3: about Ewajemov's flag, and that's it. Where there's this whole
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  Speaker 3: history to the indigenous people of the Americas that nobody
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  Speaker 3: ever hears about. And when you do talk about it,
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  Speaker 3: it's literally called revision is history. So that's sort of
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  Speaker 3: the world I come from, Like my old man raised
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  Speaker 3: me to look at George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, Teddy
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  Speaker 3: Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln is all the villains right of
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  Speaker 3: our story.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, hearing you say that, and I don't want to
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  Speaker 2: derail the actual topic, but it does kind of make
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  Speaker 2: me wonder what your stance on ancient alien theory.
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  Speaker 3: Is racist white supremacists bullshit. Yeah, that actually plays into
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  Speaker 3: it a bit as well. You know the fact that
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  Speaker 3: real history is revision is history in America and in
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  Speaker 3: England and wherever you want to go. So I just
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  Speaker 3: want to say I'm coming to this stuff from that
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  Speaker 3: point of view where I grew up with a healthy,
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  Speaker 3: healthy disrespect and sort of fear of anything the US
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  Speaker 3: government says, to the point that even the mk Alter
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  Speaker 3: papers that were supposedly accidentally found I side, I even that,
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  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, there's part of me that always wonders
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  Speaker 3: who's pushing the narrative? Right? You know, which direction are
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  Speaker 3: they having us look as opposed to looking in another direction.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously this is during the Church Committee, when
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  Speaker 3: everything was coming out in the open. I'm not arguing
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  Speaker 3: that that didn't happen or doesn't exist, or people aren't
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  Speaker 3: telling the truth. It's just that, you know, there's so
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  Speaker 3: much information out there from first person accounts where you
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  Speaker 3: start to wonder, you know, or people jumping on band
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  Speaker 3: wagons trying to be part of the story. You know,
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  Speaker 3: how deep did it truly go? And sort of what
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  Speaker 3: I always go back to is ken Casey and the
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  Speaker 3: Mary Pranksters and the fact that you know, the basis
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  Speaker 3: for grateful dead ken Casey, who were at once threw
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  Speaker 3: over the Cuckoos, Nest Tom Wolf, who was an artist.
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  Speaker 3: All these people were in San Francisco in the fifties
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  Speaker 3: and willing participants in MK Ultra right, and then in
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  Speaker 3: the late fifties and early sixties went out and spread
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  Speaker 3: LSD directly to people. And a lot of people look
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  Speaker 3: at the Mary pranksters. Oh the hippie painted school bus
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  Speaker 3: and everybody's going around fucking each other and doing an acid.
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  Speaker 3: It's like, well, yeah, that's the main line history of them.
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  Speaker 3: But the real history of they were the ones throwing
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  Speaker 3: all the part in the sixties in the Hollywood Hills,
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  Speaker 3: in Laurel Canyon. They were the ones providing the two
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  Speaker 3: laid ascid tests to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles
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  Speaker 3: and Dylan and all those people which you don't really
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  Speaker 3: hear about. With the Mary Crauchers. You heard about, you know,
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  Speaker 3: Neil Conrad and you know going on the road with
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  Speaker 3: like malaptid and all that stuff. And for me, I
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  Speaker 3: always question, first of all, where did they get thousands
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  Speaker 3: of tabs of LSD in nineteen sixty three.
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  Speaker 2: That's always a really valid question. Like we did an
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  Speaker 2: episode a while back, like years ago about Courtney Love,
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  Speaker 2: because there are allegations that Courtney Love has ties not
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  Speaker 2: only to the CIA, but to MK Ultra in particular,
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  Speaker 2: and one of the things about her. She pops up
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  Speaker 2: at like every burgeoning music scene for a while there
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  Speaker 2: Courtney Love is also there. And one of the scenes
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  Speaker 2: she showed up at prior to grunge was in England
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  Speaker 2: when like new wave and whatnot was happening. And when
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  Speaker 2: she showed up on the new wave scene, she won
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  Speaker 2: was traveling with a guy who had CIA ties and
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  Speaker 2: she also had like a thousand hits of LSD And
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  Speaker 2: it's like where how like that's so expensive, that's a
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  Speaker 2: lot of money, Like was she making it? I don't
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  Speaker 2: think so. And yeah, same thing like where did all
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  Speaker 2: those drugs come from in the sixties?
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  Speaker 3: An endless supply? And what's interesting? What are the tales
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  Speaker 3: I've read? Is from Bob Bonis Robert Bonnis, who was
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  Speaker 3: the tour manager for the Stones and the Beatles in
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  Speaker 3: the US in the sixties. He tells the story of
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  Speaker 3: how six and the CIA had literally the operation was
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  Speaker 3: get Nick high, and they wanted to get Mick Jaker
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  Speaker 3: to do as many drugs as Keith and Bill Wyman
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  Speaker 3: and all those guys were doing because according to the
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  Speaker 3: six operation, it was about making it cool so other
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  Speaker 3: people would do it because they were doing anything they
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  Speaker 3: did to get people to stop talking about Vietnam. And
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  Speaker 3: if you're high on LSDU start thinking about yourself, you start,
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  Speaker 3: you know, going off in the la la land and
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  Speaker 3: not really complaining about the war. And I think Daniel
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  Speaker 3: Schneiderman was the MI six agent who was also working
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  Speaker 3: for the FBI whose operation it was to get Mick
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  Speaker 3: Jager to do LSD. Now again, this is according to
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  Speaker 3: Bob Bonis, who was the tour manager to both the
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  Speaker 3: Stones and the Beatles in the US. So it's not
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  Speaker 3: like some random off the street. I mean, this is
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  Speaker 3: the guy who found the drugs and the women for
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  Speaker 3: the parties that those bands were having in the US
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  Speaker 3: after their shows. Is that band Waganism, you know from
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  Speaker 3: after the fact or is this guy telling the truth?
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  Speaker 3: And I tend to think, you know, m I six
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  Speaker 3: and the CIA were doing the same shit, it's not
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  Speaker 3: like they're working in completely different worlds. But then Bill Wyman,
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  Speaker 3: who's you know, the basis where the Stones, confirms this
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  Speaker 3: stuff like people were trying to get Mick Jagger to
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  Speaker 3: do LSD to make it sound cool so other people
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  Speaker 3: would do it. And they're trying to get these these bands.
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  Speaker 3: They're trying to get them high so they would stop
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  Speaker 3: complaining about the Vietnam War and talk about drugs instead.
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  Speaker 3: And according to Bob Bonna, that huge bust that the
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  Speaker 3: Stones and the Beatles were both caught up in where
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  Speaker 3: George Harrison and Nick Jagger and they were all doing
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  Speaker 3: LSD at George Harrison's house, Right, David Sneiderman set up
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  Speaker 3: the fucking bust with an overcutter cop to come in
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  Speaker 3: when they were in the middle of doing the drugs.
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  Speaker 3: He gave them to do so that when they were
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  Speaker 3: in the news, they'd be talking about their drug bust
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  Speaker 3: and doing drugs and not talking about their political views.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that does make sense in terms of a reason
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  Speaker 2: why intelligence agencies would want rock stars to do drugs,
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  Speaker 2: because yeah, at some point, if you're getting high enough,
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  Speaker 2: you really aren't going to care about the war or
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  Speaker 2: social issues. I think it speaks to why they would
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: have had an interest in the new wave movement. It's
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  Speaker 2: not like things were cool in eighties England, Like England
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  Speaker 2: was in super duper crisis mode in the eighties. And yeah,
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  Speaker 2: hip hop also, I mean there's other reasons. Yeah, the
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  Speaker 2: government is interested in hip hop, not just their messages.
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  Speaker 3: Obviously, absolutely, but the sort of thing is this is
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  Speaker 3: a sixty five pay sixty So this is already ten
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  Speaker 3: years after the San Francisco stuff. In the lab stuff,
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  Speaker 3: they're called universities, the brothels and all this. So in
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  Speaker 3: ten years, I don't care what anyone says, they had
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  Speaker 3: to have learned enough to know what they were doing,
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  Speaker 3: specifically with this drug and with MK ultra.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's always my argument about MK ultra. People are like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: nothing came from it. It's like the government's not going
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  Speaker 2: to tell you if anything came from it, and they
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  Speaker 2: were doing it for decades, they're not going to spend
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: that money if nothing was coming from it.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly. And then even take a step back and look
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  Speaker 3: at what LSD does. And this is where it gets
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  Speaker 3: a little science y and sort of nerdy, where the
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  Speaker 3: average person isn't going to look. But you know, LSD
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  Speaker 3: is affecting your serotonin, which allows dopening to be released
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  Speaker 3: in your brain, so you feel good and you get
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  Speaker 3: you know, the young idea of ego death, where you
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  Speaker 3: stop carrying about everything and just focus on being together
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  Speaker 3: and you'll be We know that you can push people
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  Speaker 3: into opinions and you can push people into saying things
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  Speaker 3: they didn't do with LSD and to the point where
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  Speaker 3: people have flashbacks and truly think that something in a
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  Speaker 3: flashback happened in their lives or happened in the world
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  Speaker 3: that did not happen at all. So that is all
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  Speaker 3: stuff that they learned already in the fifties, to the
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  Speaker 3: point where they knew that a serotonin adjustment in your
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  Speaker 3: brain to release do open, meaning to make you kind
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  Speaker 3: of lose all your empathy and only care about yourself
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  Speaker 3: is a very powerful tool in that. And this is
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: very conspiratorial, but maybe not if you ever watched Adam
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Curtis's Century a Self. There's this huge shift that happens
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  Speaker 3: in the fifties and sixties after World War Two where
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: people stop being Americans or Germans or British and they
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  Speaker 3: started being surfers and beat nicks and hippies and rockers
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  Speaker 3: and lifestyle became a thing right right, And if you
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  Speaker 3: look at like today, how many people would consider themselves
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  Speaker 3: Americans percentage wise compared to pre nineteen fifty Yeah, how
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  Speaker 3: many people would even go for a draft these days? Nobody,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, who would be such a contentious there's no way.
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  Speaker 3: If you look at the way people dress before, then
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: you know everyone looked a certain way. This is how
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Americans look, this is how Germans looked. There was handwriting
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: that was German handwriting, that was English handwriting. Blah blah blah.
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  Speaker 3: There was a clear national identity and that has thinned massively.
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  Speaker 3: And part of that is when you have an LSD
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  Speaker 3: culture like the Mary pranksters that go around talking about individualism,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: which was an offshoot of objectivism from an rand where
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  Speaker 3: the individual is more important than the community or the whole,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: and lifestyle becoming a huge part of the push in
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  Speaker 3: the West, especially towards consumerism. I'm not saying they're all interconnected,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: but they certainly go hand to hand to a point
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: where you get to today. And this is sort of
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  Speaker 3: the cherry on top where I feel the government realized, Okay, well,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: LSD does this to a person's brain, and this is
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  Speaker 3: how it works in the community and in a group.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: And then this thing comes along with the Internet called
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  Speaker 3: social media, which concretely was funded through different CIA funding groups.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah's a great article that it's still up. It's on
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: CBS News. You can go look for it right now.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: That says Facebook is funded by the CIA seriously, and
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: it lists all the different funds the CIA used to
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: help create Facebook and social media. What do you social media?
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Do you know?
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  Speaker 2: The CIA has a investment fund that operates out of
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Silicon Valley. I don't remember the name of it right now,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: but we've talked about it on the pod. The CIA also,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: if you can believe, it, was instrumental in the development
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: of Google Earth. And it's like, oh, really, the CIA
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: wanted the ability to look up any address on the
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Internet from the sky. Sure.
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  Speaker 3: Again, this isn't so much conspiratorial as it's scientific in
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: that what is the algorithm of social media doing. It's
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: affecting your serotonin, which is releasing dopamine, which is making
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: you feel like part of a group. But now you
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: don't need to take a goddamn asset tab and who
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: laid you? Just pick up your fucking phone and tab
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: yourself until you you get that same feeling. To the
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: point where we live in a country where a huge
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: part of the population is having flashbacks to shit that
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: never happened and living in a different reality. Yes, and
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: that became much more amplified. Not that crazy people didn't
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: exist before. People didn't have fantasies before, but became much
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: more amplified in the last twenty years than in the
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: two hundred before. It the fact that social media algorithms
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: have a similar effect on our brains as something like
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: lucidgen right down to the ego death part of dissociating
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: your empathy so you can be an individual as opposed
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: to part of a national identity. To the fact that
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: you feel good with bullshit. I don't have anything against
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Elisie and doing drugs if you want to do it recreationally,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: but it's kind of bullshit because you're affecting your brain
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: to create something that makes you feel good. You can
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: do that with tons of different things. Even though I
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: come from an indigenous background, I don't really lean into
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: the mystical sort of woo woo spiritual side of it
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: at all. I've done tons of pod, tons of mushrooms,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: tons of LSD throughout my life dating back to when
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: I was a teenager, both ritualistically and recreationally, and for me,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: it's recreational more than a dismistical or you know anything
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: like that. That's just my opinion.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: So you're not doing d MT to talk to aliens like.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: That, DMT, to feel good baby, hell yeah.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: To watch movies.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the sort of thing where you know, I
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: did use payod a lot in my life for making
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: decisions because again, a clearer point of view, you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: you get, you suffer, you experienced the ego death where
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: all the empathy is taken out of you and you're
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: just like, okay, black and white, I can do this
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: or I can do that. What do I want to do? Really?
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And okay, I want to do that, and I'll go
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: do that. You know, there's therapeutic measures in there. But
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I think there's therapeutic measures in there if you're in
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: a therapy situation with someone there helping guide you, right,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: you know, or likewise a I don't even know what
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: the opposite of therapy would be, but a malevolent sort
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: of situation, which impig Alter was in, you know, a
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: therapy situation or a laboratory situation where someone's guiding you
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: towards thinking that you're, you know, going to kill the
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: president or thinking that you're someone who's a serial killer
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: when you're just a grocery store cler, making you believe
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: something that isn't real. Yeah, which you can one hundred
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: percent do with lucent gens in which a lot of
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: people don't like talking about now because they want it
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: to be legal and they want to be medicine and
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: they don't like seeing the possibility of negatives when they
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: want to legalize something, which is the same thing we
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: saw with marijuana. So yes, marijuana should be legal. People
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: still get high and run people over, you know, sure, Yeah,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: but people get drunk and run people over too. So
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: what are we talking about?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like any drug that's made legal, like it can't
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: just be okay, you can use it and there's never
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: any consequences for you, exactly. I still don't want people
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: on the highway fucked up on mushrooms. I take mushrooms,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: and I know I would not want to drive on them,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: or I've taken them. I don't have a connect right now,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: but if any CIA is listening and can get me some,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I'm down to be part of the experiment. Let's back
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: up a little bit.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just gonna say, let's fill in some
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: gaps here.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Have you looked into or read anything about that Laurel
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Canyon music scene.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: I've just started too. I had heard of it and
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: knew of it. Who surprising my dad. He was down
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: in Haye Ashbury, Oakland. He's part of the Alcacraz occupation,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: was a member, and he was in Laurel Canyon between
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: sixty nine and seventy two.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Nice and he mostly said that because of sixty nine,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: but go on.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but he always had some wild stories, which again,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: your old man's tony story you believe like ten percent. Yeah,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: so I knew through that. Then. Also there's that book
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: series that just came out right about it.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a series of magazine articles, okay, but there's
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: like eighteen of them, and I know it eventually turned
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: into a book. I wouldn't be surprised if there's multiple books.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, like everyone from that Laurel Canyon scene, like
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: especially Frank Zappa, who was kind of the sun that
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: everyone revolved around in that scene, they all are like
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the kids of military intelligence. And I know it's tempting
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: to like brush that off because we were fresh off
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: World War two, I mean not fresh off, but like
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: it didn't enter that much longer. Yeah, and so a
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: lot of people like got drafted and a lot of
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: people had military careers, so of course their kids are
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: going to have ties to that. But one, like all
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: of them, every single one, like every person who shows
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: up at Laurel Canyon around that time is like the
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: son or daughter of someone who was military intelligence. And
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: one of the things that's never been confirmed but that
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: keeps coming up when I look into the CIA is
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: that they love getting the whole family involved, as opposed
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: to just Okay, well we're going to recruit the dad
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and then he's gonna do Shenanigans for us, but never
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: tell anyone else in the household that doesn't like that's
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: not going to work most of the time. So it
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: makes sense that if the head of the household is like, hey,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: get this, I just got a job toppling foreign governments
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: and oppressing civil rights and I can get you all
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: in on it, also like it must be good if
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I'm doing it, so of course you would want to
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: do it. And I did a ten part series on
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: this pod about Jonestown, and if you look into Jonestown,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: aside from Jim Jones, all the other people who did
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Jonestown were from basically the same family, the Layton family.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: The only person who ever went to jail over Jonestown
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: was a member of the Layton family and he's like,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: out now.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: The Nazis, which ut is Yeah exactly.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing too. We didn't really backtrack far enough.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: That's the scariest part of MK Ultra, the CIA, all
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: of that shit is it's all like half Nazi, Like
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: it all is born out of Operation paper Clip, and like,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Nazis, don't stop being Nazis. They have kids
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: who they trained to be Nazis, and like that's a
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: bloodline that's just running through the American government since right
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: after World War Two. And I would challenge anyone who's
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: skeptical of me saying that to tell me when it
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: was purged from the government.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, yeah, way, because it wasn't. I mean,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: even if you look at the Church Committee, that's still like, oh,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: you can't operate in the United States. They are like okay,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: thumbs up, wink wink. Sure, And then they installed the
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: head of the CIA as the goddamn president basically the
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: next you know, election cycle. Right even looking at the
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: this is going back to my indigenous roots. But you know,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: the United States was experimenting on Indians on reservations for
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty years before the Nazis got here,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: right for sterilization, doing crazy shit with twins and all that.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: There's horror stories at all those assimilation schools and all
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: those I mean some of those reservations were prisoner of
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: war camps, concentration camps. I mean Pine Ridge is still
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: technically classified by the United States government as a POW camp.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: You know. So I used to live.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: So close to Pine Ridge too. I lived in South
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Dakota for years.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you have a better chance of a better life
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: in Sudan and Iraq than you do on Pine Ridge today.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: So for me again coming from the way my dad
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: sort of raised me where you know, this shit has
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: been going on the whole time. This is part of
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: the American way. Looking even at the timeline, let's say
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: we officially no MFA started in the mid fifties, right, Well,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: what was going on between forty seven and fifty five
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: on those German scientists were integrating into CIA. We're integrating
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: into our literally our top universities and creating the American
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: psyctory atric institution and creating these systems from coast to coast.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: You know what was happening during those seven years? What
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: was happening during the years, you know, in the mid seventies,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: to know, mid eighties, nineties, when they said, oh it
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: all stopped a long time ago. It doesn't stop. That's
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: not how the CIA works. And going to your point
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: about like going out to families, they're even going to
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Ken Casey and people like that. The CIA doesn't really
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: work like everyone's adjacent Bourne. It more works, And we're
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: going to put out some stories and we're going to
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: put out some feelers with our analysts and people might
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: pick it up. They might not. But if one person
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: picks it up and runs with it, one journalist picks
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: it up and runs with it, one you know, culturally
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: influential person picks it up and runs with it, we
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: have a success. They're not going there and paying people
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: to be like, oh, well, you know, distribute all this LSD.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: They'll be like, oh, there's some LSD. Let's see what happens, right.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: You know, it's the same thing with recruitment anywhere in
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: the world. Recruitment isn't about oh, I'm going to bring
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: you into our clandestine organization and TV ch kung fu
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: and how to shoot a gun. So we're like, can
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: you tell me what your boss was saying about the
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: oil embargo and the Persian Gulf. Yeah, over dinner in Switzerland,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: it's more wine and dying. Can I get some information
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: out of you? And you're right, that works better with
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: the family, wouldn't be like, hey, we like to wife
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: and kids over the kids are playing together, and at
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: the end of the day, everybody reports back, like, so
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: what do they think about living here? They hear anything weird?
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: It's really subtle, basic stuff like that, where all this
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: sneaks into our lives. But luckily the CIA has a
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: lot of friends in hollyo. What it makes it look
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: like everybody is Ethan Hawk or Chason Bourne or whoever
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: the fuck you want to say. Yeah, that's not it
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: at all.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: That's one of the things I've been kind of like
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: quietly railing against lately. We talk a lot about copaganda,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: which is a thing you see in true crime shows
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: and like, sure, sure episodic law shows, But I feel
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: the same way about the CIA. I don't care how
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: good your action movie is. If if it makes the
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: CIA look like these swashbuckling heroes who are constantly saving
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the world from danger, fuck that, Like, the CIA is
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: not that. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure they do
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: have people who will kill you in the right situation.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: We fucking know that. But yeah, I think people underestimate
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: that part that you just brought up, which is a
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: lot of what the CIA does is just like put
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: fake information out there, which makes the push against fake
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: news in the United States so ironic, because yes, that's
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: what we do. Like Obama signed a law that was
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: basically like, look, this is how we fight wars for
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: the next ten to fifteen years. We're not sending troops,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: We're not doing any of that. We're just gonna, like,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: you know, go in and say stuff and see what happens.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: And but it's been like that for a long, long,
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: long long time too. Yeah, a lot of people have
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: this sanctity of journalism, especially in the US, where like, oh,
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: the New York Times says this, it's the paper of repute,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: or let's say, these are all papers that were started
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: as propaganda arms for rich families in the eighteen hundreds.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: The La Times was the goddamn lapdes propaganda wing. You know.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: The New York Post has always been a shit tabloid
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: for the elite. These papers have always been biased and
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: again they have an agenda, whether we like it or not.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: The New York Times is the paper that promotes the
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: war machine of the United States. It's the military industrial
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: complex's mouthpiece to the world. Does that mean they don't
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: have real journalists reporting on real things. Of course not.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: Of course they do. That is part of it. It
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean that we throw the baby out with the
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: bathwater because they support the abilitary industrial complex. That's called
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: being a part of the American empire.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Baby. Yeah, it works kind of the same way as
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: the CIA. The CIA, one thing we've known about them
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: forever is that it's a very compartmentalized place. So just
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: because once THEIA agent is like toppling a foreign government,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: there might be another who is legitimately like trying to
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: prevent terrorism in this country and doing it with the
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: best intentions, like doing it from a very purely patriotic
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: place where they're like, I fucking care about everyone, Yet
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: they don't know what the other guy's doing. But that
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: also like it doesn't matter, they still know. Like that
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: feels kind of like the thin blue line thing where
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: you know there are good cops, but they see their
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: fellow cops doing bad shit. And don't say anything. So
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: are you a good cop or well, are you just
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: a problem for me?
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: And I think for a rational person, if you even
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: look at patriotism, patriotism is about defending your country, no
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: matter what. It's about seeing the faults in your country
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: and trying to make it better for everyone so that
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: you create a better place, a place you can be
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: proud of. Obviously, that falls apart because people have different
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: ideas what that means. And some people are racist pieces
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: of shit and think that you know, people shouldn't have
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: rights and you should be trodden to pop. So you
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: have to fight the good fight against that. And that's
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: what I find the patriotism to be. And so I
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: still totally see your point that there are people who
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: through true means, go into these systems like the Central
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: Intelligence or FBI, or cops or even the military. I
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: mean think about World War Two, Like movie stars gave
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: up being movie stars and became grunts in the army
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: to go fight in World War Two. You know, Clark
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Gable and Kerry Grant and all those John Wayne didn't,
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: but all those yeah, all those guys like yeah, you
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: have right, but they fought side by side in uniforms
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: without special treatment for the most part, because that's what
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you did. You were an American and that's you just
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: did that. I don't see that happening today. Like if
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: we went to work, nobody in the elite would go
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: and fight. It just doesn't happen like that anymore. But
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: also going back to your point, with like intelligence agencies,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: which we have what twenty seven of which we don't
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: don't even know what to do, and that's the ones
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: we know of. You know, the NSA was basically cryptozoology
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: until the Truth Committee. Yeah, because no one thought it existed.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: They thought it was all cloak and dang or bullshit.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: But a lot of what happens in CIA is so
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: banal and intelligence. I mean, I've had a friend I
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: went to school in DC way back in the day,
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: and she interned there because her dad worked there. And
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: her job was just sitting in this big gymnasium sized
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: room and looking through local newspapers in America and cutting
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: out articles and pacing them into a binder if they
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: had keywords in them, and then she'd get a new
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: set of keywords every day and she'd just go through
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: a paper. That's what she would do for eight hours.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: And that's that's more of what it is. It's intelligence
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: gathering and then executing plans based on that intelligence. And
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: America is an empire. Their job is to make sure
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: that all the money and resources we can are filtered
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: through our banks and our pockets so that we stay
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: the most powerful kid on the block. That's the point
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: of it.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And you brought up the Church Committee. The
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: thing I think that puts people's minds at ease these
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: day about the CIA is that one of the things
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: that came out of the Church Committee is well, the
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: CIA can't operate on American soil anymore. And I think
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: my only reaction to that is, Okay, well, then who
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: does I know? The CIA didn't just throw their hands
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: up like the American government as a whole. I promise
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: everyone listening did not at that point go, oh, okay,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: well we'll just we'll stop spying on Americans. Like the
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: NSA had already been in place for decades by then.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: And you mentioned like the mainstream media New York Times,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: especially when it comes to spying on Americans. There are
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: a couple of stories that have never been picked up
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: by the mainstream media that are pretty shocking when it
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: comes to intelligence agencies operating on our soil. One of
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: them that came out a few years ago. Every time
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I bring this up, people ask me to link them
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: to the article because to this day, only Newsweek ever
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: reported on it. But the Department of Defense for like
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: ten years now has been building this network of American
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: spies basically who have gone into like every facet of
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: life under assumed identities solely for like intelligence gathering purposes,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: to just like keep an eye on everyone. So like,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: if you're involved in, say the La comedy scene, there's
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: a fucking cop amongst your midst you can take that
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: to the bank. Because this article, one of the things
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: it mentioned was that I think there's like thirty to
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: forty thousand of them. That's more undercover agents than the
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: CIA has, and they're just operating on American soil, spying
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: on Americans. So what's it fucking matter if the CIA
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: can't operate in the United States. The CIA's whole purpose
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: when they were founded was to just collect all the
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: enti eligence from all the other agencies and do what
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: they will with it. So they don't need to operate
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: here because we got this team of American spies, and
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: there's also Jesse Ventura did an episode about it, and
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I hate that I can't remember their name, but this
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: like network of American business people who are like in
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: infrastructure fields and things like that. And their whole thing
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: is if we hear anyone say anything, probably the same
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: thing you mentioned, probably like a keywords thing where if
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: they hear a person say something that seems like it
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: might be related to what whoever they're reporting to wants
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: to hear, they fucking report it back. And there's thousands,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: tens of thousands of them, and it's like at least yeah,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: and it's like, at that point, what does it matter
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: if the CIA doesn't operate here?
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well it's the same like you know, in the
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: UK they have six and five six is foreign, MI
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: five internal.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and we still have the FBI, right.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: And so it's like, well, you don't think we have
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: an MI five equivalent to MI six that's out. Obviously
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: a FBI is a very good parallel there, but of
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: course of course we do it also just the CIA
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: can do whatever it wants, yeah, but only it's this
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: is America, baby, You do everything you want until you
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: get caught, then you kind of say you're sorry, you
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: pay a fee, and you keep doing what you're doing.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know that's reductionist and shitty, but that's
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: kind of how it works.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I did an episode sort of like this,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: except I was the one pushing the theory and I
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: am a staunch believer that the CIA tried to kill Reagan.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like that seems so obvious to me because
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: you already you mentioned the Church Committee, and people who've
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: listened to this podcast have heard me say this. But
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: the Church Committee comes out and they're like, hey, the
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: CIA can't operate on American soil and they have to
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: make all these changes. And Jimmy Carter takes office and
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: he's like, all right, I g I'm gonna make those changes,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: and as if by magic, at that point, for the
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: first time in history, the director of the CIA decides, oh,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I'm going to run for vice president. And that director
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: of the CIA was George H. W. Bush. And then
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: what happens after Reagan gets elected? They immediately after, immediately
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: after he gets elected, what happens He almost dies in
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the most mk ultra assassination attempt ever. Fucking Jody Foster,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: her name comes up in it. It is such an
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: mk ultra assassination attempt and it just didn't work. But
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: there was there was that point where he was in
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: the hospital and I believe they made an announcement that
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: George Bush was briefly president.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or somebody was at the Secretary defense or somebody
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: was like, I've been charged now, and everyone's like, what's
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: this guy talking about. There is a clip somewhere of that.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: I can remember seeing that, But that's just it. Like
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: we know for a fact you can use LSD to
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: get people to believe things that are one fantasies like
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: that is unquestionable. If you've taken that fellast, you have
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: had a flashback to something that does not exist, that
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: feels as real as you and I talking to each
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: other right now. And that's you know, the same thing
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: with Sarahan Sarhan who was in the room and Bobby
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: Kenny was shot in the back of the head where
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: he was convinced of something that was completely fantastical if
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: you believe his testimony. Same thing with even to extent
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: with John Lennon, where's you're obsessed with Ketcher in the
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: riot you've read this thing over and over and over again.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: You're in a fantasy land about it, and you went
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: and shot somebody over it as an assassination, a political assassination.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: You could argue as well, Gevin, that John Lennon was
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: extremely political and anti war and has one of my
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: favorite quotes about the end of the hippie movement and
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: the end of the true anti war movement in America
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: where everyone sort of gave up life style culture took over,
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: and he's on Charlie Rose or something. He's like, hey, man, apathy,
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: ain't it we have to keep fighting?
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: And people stopped fighting, man. I mean, we're old enough
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: to remember Iraq War. There were protests, but nobody was
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: out really protesting like that.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: People got mocked for protesting the first war in Iraq.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, mocked the second war either. Are a little bit
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: more protests, more in the UK than in the US.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: But again it just carried on and like nothing happened.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: I mean that war was horrifically brutal in Iraq.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And in a lot of cases in this country, those
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: protests had consequences, Like think about what happened to the
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Dixie Chicks. Yeah, we don't bring that up that much,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: but that's a pretty wild moment in American history where
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: they were just like, hey, we're from Texas and our
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: president is also from Texas and he launched this illegal
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: war and it sucks and people were like that we
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: are going to get people killed. It's like, shut the
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: fuck up, no, they're not.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: And it's wild how that destroyed their professional lives in
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: such a way that they still kind of not recovered from.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: And one of the arguments was that they made America
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: look bad on the world stage because they were in
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: England when they said it, it's like, us reckon the
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Middle East makes America look bad on the world stage,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: you maniacs.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was sort of I remember at that time
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: as well, all the people who especially on the liberal side,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: who were against the war. Once we invaded, they were like, well,
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: our troops are there now, so we have to support
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: the troops, so we're for the war. And it's like, no, motherfucker,
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: if you support the troops, you don't go send them
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: to die needlessly in a place that has nothing to
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: do with anything besides us pursuing our empire goals of
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: getting billions of dollars filtered from taxpayers US into the
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: pockets of billionaire cronies.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you protest harder once. Yeah, we deployed the harders.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Everyone should have turned to bring our boys home now
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: in foot of the streets. Yeah, but that of course
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: did not happen.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Hey, how about Jonestown. What are your thoughts on Jonestown?
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Because I mentioned it earlier. What I think happened not
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: just with Jonestown. I think after the Church Committee, where they,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: like the CIA, clearly had to end MK ultra in
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: some respects. It was a thing that as well as
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: they kept it secret, it was happening in public. It
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: was happening at colleges and universities in the United States,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: and they weren't going to be able to keep doing that.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: And what I've always kind of assumed happened was they
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: were like, Okay, here come a bunch of cults and communes.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: And that's what starts popping up. In the eighties especially,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: we start hearing about cults all over the place, and
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I think, like, my theory, and it's not just my theory.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: When I did that episode, I was covering a book
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: by a fucking strange dude, Mike Myers, who might or
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: might not exist about how Jonestown was almost certainly like
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: the culmination of mk ultra because mk Ultra had been
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: done on individual people in hospital settings. The next move
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: is to do a field test, like you have to
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: test it on a bunch of people at once, kind
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: of without them knowing, And a lot of details about
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: how Jonestown worked speak to it being a drug test.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: For one thing, they had a shit ton of drugs there,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: like when people finally went in and investigated, they had
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: all these actually they only had two. They had huge
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: stockpiles of two specific drugs, which what the fuck is that? Like,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: obviously they're testing something was meth, right. I think it
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: was like they were like legitimate medical forms of whatever
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: drugs they had, but yeah, I think one was like
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: a meth type of thing. They were giving people weekly
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: medical exams. They had all of these detailed medical records
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: which were all burned wild wild, And one of the
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: things they would do is once a week they would
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: line everyone up and give them cookies, and one group
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: would get one type of cookie, and then there'd be
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: a second line where that group would get that cookie,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: and then a third line where that group would get
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: that specific cookie and you were not to mix them.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: There were ramifications for fucking with the cookies at Jonestown.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And what does that sound like. It sounds like one
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: line getting one drug, another line getting the other drug,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: in another line getting a placebo, which is absolutely like,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: you can absolutely synthesize drugs into food and it's just
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: a thing you take. So if it's in the cookie,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: you're taking the drug. And most of the people who
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: died were actually murdered, A very small margin of them
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: drank the kool aid. A lot of them were fucking
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: shot or stabbed or injected.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: So here's the interesting thing, and this goes back to
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: the Mary pranksters, because yes, they were driving around giving
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: people tons of LSD. You know what other drug they
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: had and fetamines yeah, medical grades thought piles of them
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: fetamines that they were also giving to people. Moreover, the
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Koolaid acid test was their big thing. Yeah, yeah, that's
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: a huge coincidence that drink the kool aid. The next
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: time kool aid became part of the culture in that
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: way was drink the kool aid through Jonestown. So you
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: have the connection with the drug, you have the connection
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: with the coltish behavior because Mary Prankster's was a cult.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's no other way to put it. That
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: was the first one coming out of the labs in
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: San Francisco or the university labs in San Francisco. I
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: can totally see that as a widening of well, what
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: does this do in a real control outdoor situation as
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: opposed to just a wild outdoor situation where it's like, hey,
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: these guys are just passing this shit out like Candia parties.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: People are doing their thing and we're learning that we
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: get people start shutting up about what we want them
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: to shut up about because too high care to how
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: can we actually control people? Which is such a full
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: on Soviet Nazi Japanese World War two type of experiments,
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: which I'm sure all three of those empires were doing
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: in their gulags and concentration camps as well. And shock
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: of all shocks, how many of the people in the
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: hierarchy of Jonestown were Nazis something like the most most.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Of them like that because the whole like the Layton
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: family had ties to the Nazis.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like that's not coincidental, Like, yeah, maybe
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: the Kulai as a testing drink the koul ai. That's coincidental. Sure,
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: maybe maybe maybe it's also a sick fucking joke, because
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: that's how sometimes those people think. Yeah, yeah, you know,
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: they chuckled to themselves about stuff like that. I don't know. Again,
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: coincidence has happened to all the goddamn time, of course,
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: But with Jonestown, I think there's far far too much
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: edif it's linking the hierarchy to both the Nazis and
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: the CIA, but also the drugs that were involved in
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: what was the issues going on that it had to
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: be an outdoor controlled human experiment of some sort. Who
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: was funding it and driving it? Who knows? Maybe was
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: some intelligence group we don't even know about. Yeah, maybe
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: was a group of physicians who were part of the
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: American Psychiatric Association that we don't even know about. I
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: would tend to lean more towards MI six CIA sort
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: of things, because they're the ones who would have the
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: ability to both arm them the way they were armed,
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: but also provide the amount of money they needed without
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: any question.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the things that Jonestown coincides with
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: is the CIA, even in Guyana. At the same time,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: going into South America and just Latin America in general,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: and trying to recruit mercenaries. Yeah, so if you're trying
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: to recruit mercenaries, why not also set up a camp where,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: you you know, try and just make them, just fucking
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: build them.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you see, similar tactics that were used
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: to create very violent people who murdered in Jonestown are
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: the exact same tactics that are used in Central and
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Eastern Africa to create child armies. Right where you're given
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: specific food, you're given specific drug at a specific time,
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: and you're drilled into with cult like precision to create
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: armies that go and do horrific things. And so, in
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: a sense, that was the success that proved it could
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: be done. Because if you and this is again, this
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: isn't conspiracy theory. This is just the way the world
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: fucking works. If you look into where those armies are
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: funded in Central and Eastern Africa, with the child soldiers
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: and all that, it's all bankers in France, Belgium, UK, Netherlands,
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: the US. They're just extracting money from a place they're
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: no longer allowed to colonize, so they just colonize it
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: a different way by proxy. Yeah, and you're still extracting
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: that money.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to colonize it if the local
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: government is heeding to your business interests.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah. And the CIA is really good at that.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: They've toppled how many democratically communist governments around the world
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: in the last one hundred years alone.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: All of them, pretty much all of them. It seems that.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Always drives me nuts when someone was like, well, there
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: were forty eight communist governments in the twentieth century and
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: all forty eight failed, So that proves it's a failure.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: And it's like, no, all forty eight were fucking murdered
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: in the crib by the CIA. Yeah, yeah, that proves nothing.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a pretty big role in that.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: And yeah.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the other thing about the Church Committee ruling
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: that they couldn't operate on American soil. By that point,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: they didn't want to. They were already so deep into
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: toppling governments on foreign soil. That and good at it, Yeah,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: so good at it. Like they didn't need to fuck
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: around In the United States. We have so many other
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: intelligence agencies that can worry about that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: And again, maybe they do, and they just don't tell.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Us speaking to the idea that MK ultra either it
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: didn't end or was actually more successful than we admit to.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Our episode last week was one that I was initially
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: gonna do as an episode of our true crime podcast,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: and it was about the Sarah Lawrence college sex cult,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: which was.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a wild story.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that story is this guy gets out of prison,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: moves in with his daughter in her like eight college friends,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: and just systematically turns them not just into a cult,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: but he like drills down on each kid and like
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: so quickly is able to turn them into just like
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: a devotee of Larry Ray. And when he first got there,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: he was talking about like all of his government connections,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: and he mentions his time with the CIA, and it's
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: like that's where he learned that obviously, like the CIA
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: for so many decades after World War Two was just
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: about mind control and like how can we get people
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: to do what we want, be it through force or
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: through weird fucking psychiatric tactics. And it seems like this
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: guy got out, moved in with this house full of kids,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: and used his CIA shit on those kids.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: And you know, this isn't it isn't even special to
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: the US or a CIA. I mean, just look at
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: the Shtazi what they did in eastern Germany during the
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: second half of the twentieth century, that whole film, the
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: lives of others. It's exactly that. It's like finding people's
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: vulnerability and twisting them to do what you need them
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: to do. And again, it's not like they're recruited or
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: you're a Goddance CIA agent or a Manchurian candidate. It's
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: just people men getting manipulated in ways that it's really
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: really hard to detect but also protect against when somebody's
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: a professional at it. Yeah, and that's another thing that
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: drives me nuts. When people are like, oh, the government
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: couldn't be smart enough to do is they're all idiots
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: and blah blah blah. I was like, no, they're not.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: There's some idiots in Congress, because that's what Congress is for.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: It's created to put all the idiots in. But the
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: people who are working in the CIA and mk Altra
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: are genius scientists who have a very very loose grasp
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: on morality and ethics, and they've gone to the best
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: schools and have the best educations, and they have a
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: brain that probably we don't quite understand. Moreover, there are
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: people in places like CIA or even to a lesser extent, FBI.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: But I six. All those fuckers at MI six went
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: to Eton and Oxford and King's College and all that shit,
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: Just like all those fuckers at the CIA and the
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: hierarchy went to Yale and Harvard, and they're part of
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: skull and bones, and guess what they can do keep
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: fucking secrets. I guess what. They're probably pretty fucking smart
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: because they got to that position, not saying they're good,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: but they're not dumb either, and that's you know, this
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: is tangent. But when I see Ronda Stantis, I was like,
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: motherfucker went to Yale and Harvard and he's a huge
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: piece of shit that doesn't back down. Guess what, He's
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: to be president because he's done the right things to
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: be president because he's in all the right clubs, he's
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: done all the right bullshit through his life.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: And people are treating him the way they treated Trump
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: Big big difference because he's a true believer in.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: That bullshit, right, and the thing about Trump, that's the
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: thing people are like, well, he's not going to beat Trump.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: He is going to mop the fucking floor with Trump
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: at the primaries. Yes, And I mean Trump might run
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: as an independent and Ron DeSantis might have to like
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: put down another January sixth Riot, but he's gonna fucking
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: beat Trump. Yeah, he's such an effective politician.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: And absolutely I think you're right.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: It's because he's gone through all those institutions. Like he's
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: the scary version of Trump that people have been saying
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: would be coming, Like he's that version that believes all
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: the Trump shit. But he's just so good at being
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: a politician. Like he won one hundred and four percent
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: of the vote in Florida, Like he unified that state
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: around Trump ideals. That's not nothing like that.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: Now he's executing those ideals in real life. Yeah, to
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: a point where he's taking on Disney and that's not
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: even a big fucking deal. I don't give a shit
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: about Disney, but like something that would be unheard of,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: and he's probably going to help break that shit in
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: Florida for the first time ever. Yeah, And it's really, really,
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: really hard for people not to respect someone who gets
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: shit done, even if they don't agree with the shit
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: he's getting done.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're right. Whenever I hear people shoot down
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: the idea of any conspiracy theory on the grounds that, oh,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: the American government's not competent enough to do stuff like that,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: my first thought is, like, are you part of it?
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: Because that's an insane thing to say. Insane, Like, we
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: essentially rule the world and we have for a long
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: long time. You don't do that by being sloppy and stupid.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: You do it by convincing people you're not competent enough
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: to do it, at least in part.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: And also it's not like mistakes aren't made or failures
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: don't happen when you are in that position. And it's
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: what I see when people talk about billionaires and like
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: how and there's no love loss there, but like how
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: they don't quite understand that. People like Richard Branson doesn't
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: give a fuck about rules or what you should be doing.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: He just does shit right, and then it either pans
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: out and he makes money or it doesn't pan out
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: and he doesn't ever think about it again. He just
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: goes it does more shit. Whereas he doesn't like, oh,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: I want to buy an airline. I wonder what that's
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: going to do for about pollution. I wonder what's going
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: to do about blah blah blah. He's like, no, I
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: just went and bought an airplane and fucking fluid to
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: the Caribbean. Yeah, and then I bought another airplane and fluid,
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: and then now I have an airline and there's blah
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: blah blah blah.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna fly one to space.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: Right. But that's a lot of how a lot of
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: this works is well, it's like, Okay, we're going to
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: go top Desire government because they elected a communists work perfectly. Okay,
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: we're gonna go top of the Cuban government because we've
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: seen this work in Indonesia Anzi year. Blah blah blah.
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: Didn't work. Doesn't mean they're stupid, It just means it
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: didn't work.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, I think Venezuela is a good recent example. There
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: is no work. We tried to topple the Venezuelan government
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: like a day after Hugo Chavez was elected, and the
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: people took to the streets to the point that we
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: were like, okay, God damn, and we just let him
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: out of jail and let him take the presidency back.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: And ever since then we've been like, oh, Venezuela. You motherfuckers.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: See he got down in the good old days. We
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: were just throwing that motherfucker out of a plate. Yeah,
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: but that's just it, Like, yeah.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: We did do that. We threw him out from each plane.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, because he was a communist. But that's just it. Like,
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: and that's what it goes with with mk ultra. Like,
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: I don't think that mk ultra carried on. And then
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: CI was like, oh, we're gonna put ultra into social
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: media through Facebook. I think social media came around in
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: our life. This is where people are going to get
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: their news, and this is making people happy and sad.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Obviously there's a serotonin dopainin connection. And look, we have
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: all this research of what we can do with those
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: facets of people's brains and their personalities. Let's see if
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: we tinker around in social media here. And so for me,
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: mk Ultra is no longer mk ultra. But there's no
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: denying that CIA especially but also intelligence agencies that do
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: this shit manipulated social media is to make it more
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: addictive and to do the exact same things to our
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: brains that LSD does. That to me is at heritage
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: at least conspiracy. No, that's just what they do. But again,
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: I don't think they created it as an extension. I
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: think they happened upon it.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that, and I would at
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: least put forth a guess that that might have a
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: lot to do with the push against TikTok, because I
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: don't think it's privacy. We did an episode of the
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: Unpopular Opinion podcast like a couple months ago, and Chet
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: Wilde was one of the guests. Chet used to be
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: a big part of the network, one of the hosts.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: We love Chet. We'll still have him on from time
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: to time, but he's like a legitimate mental health professional now,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: and he cited a bunch of statistics from like an
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: actual study into TikTok and like the speed with which
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: teens and kids especially are met with body image content
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: mental health content, like immediately upon getting on there. I
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: would guess that's probably the American government's bigger concern is
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: like no, no, no, no, we do that to kids
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram. We're not gonna have
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: China fucking coming in and doing that to our kids here,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: because then that's a whole battle between like who's influencing elections,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: like who's better at it? In we know China's going
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: to be better at it. They're already better at it.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: TikTok is so fucking huge.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: And there's a reason it's getting banned in some states
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: in the state governments because it is a foreign actor
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: affecting the population of the United States period, Like there's
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: no getting around that. And we know what this stuff
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: does because we helped create it with a Facebook and
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: the CIA and goddamn twenty eleven. So it's not like
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: it's something it's out of the blue. But also, and
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: I don't think people understand the way a lot of
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: these governments think is they do have plans for maybe
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: one day we're going to have to fucking do a
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: land invasion in the United States. Maybe one day we
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: are going to have to you know, take over Europe
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: with Russia or whatever, doesn't matter. They have plans for
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: all this shit, and it's little pricks. It's you know,
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: death buy a million cut sort of thing where it's like, well,
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: if we can get everybody feeling like shit and unwilling
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: to be part of a team, even if it's only
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: ten percent of the people, that's still ten percent less
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: people we have to fucking deal with when we go
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: over there and take shit over. Yeah, or that's ten
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: percent less people that might fight on our side, right
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: because you know, nobody ever talks about all the Russians
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: that we're fighting for the Nazis against Russia because they
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: hate it stolen. That always sort of, you know, conveniently
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: gets left out of the history because it was like, oh, oh,
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: this great you know battle between or all the Americans
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: who went back to Germany to fight on the Nazi
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: side right against the United States. Because it's very I
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: don't want to say easy, but it's very possible to
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: manipulate people into doing very dumb shit, very easily. Yeah,
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: through Kay Ultra, that's what we learned exactly.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you're right, like social media does
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: seem like an extension of that. It seems like the
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: easiest version of it.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't have to dose anybody. They don't dose
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: themselves every morning when they wake up the bigger shit
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: and scroll and they're going to dose themselves up every
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: coffee break, you know.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: I do sometimes feel like, especially with Twitter, like taking
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: in Twitter for entertainment purposes feels like low key mental illness.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: To me, it's like, to you, now, yeah, I just
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: want to be sad. Did you wake up like, oh,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not angry enough right now? Let me go on
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Twitter and find a reason to be fucking irate all day.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: And it's like, why do you want that? This makes
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: no sense to me.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: What's interesting is well and this plays into the addictionists
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: of it all. But I left Facebook god over ten
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: years ago, and I left Twitter in twenty twenty. And
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: I'm not breaking I'm saying it matter of factly. Yeah,
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: but I remember when I left Facebook, it was like
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: I quit smoking. It's like I could breathe more easily.
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: It's like food tasted better. It was like I gave
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: up something that was muting everything in my life physically
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: and mentally. And I had the same effect when I
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: left Twitter, where it was just like, oh my god,
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: it's like I quit drinking, you know, and I'm suddenly
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: happier and sober. And I wasn't waking up pum over
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: every morning, and I didn't have a headache, and I
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: wasn't angry for no reason. And that is to me
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: telling it. It's like you see people, especially on Twitter,
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: and look, I'm on Instagram all the time. I'm not Yeah,
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: I'm part of the problem, don't get wrong. And I
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: totally understand that I'm dosing myself on Instagram when I'm
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: scrolling through the reels. I get it. But I kind
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: of get happy on Instagram because I curated it for
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: just the people I know in the whiskey industry basically,
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: so yeah, there's no fighting ever and anyway, that.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Is one of the things I appreciate about Instagram, Like
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: when I hit that explore button right now, I get
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: NFL updates and cute videos of dogs and cats. Yeah,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: and I fucking love it, Like they know what I'm
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: there for, and the fucking targeted ads are great.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: I buy so much shit off Instagram, and it's not
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: like I actually don't find that that creepy. Like if
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: they're like, hey, Adam, you'd like this pair of Chuck Taylor's,
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, I would.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: You're right, absolutely. I just bought a pair of sunglasses
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: that I've been looking for for years. I was like,
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: there they are. Yeah, you Instagram, So I get it.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: But like with Twitter I've really noticed recently as well,
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: like Twitter brain with people where it's like the pinions
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: are very similar around a lot of like movie critic
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: people and all the people over the last year who
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: had like hardcore Twitter interactions had the same weird opinions
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: about movies where they didn't get certain things, or they
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: or it was like they're watching a different movie where
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: it's like, what are you talking about, man, which leads
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: me back to that flashback thing you get from fucking
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: taking too much LSD where you're trying of starting to
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: live in a different world and you have different memories
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: of things that might not be real or you're just
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: not seeing things the way they are, because that's what
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: happens with too much LSD. And again, I know how
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: we like to talk about using hallucigens as therapy, but
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: that's as a therapy, right. You can use alcohol to
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: clean out a wound, or you can use it to
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: kill yourself. I'm drinking too much of it, So it's
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: definitely I feel, and I don't really think it's that
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: much of a conspiracy because you can follow you can
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: follow the history of it that you know, going from
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: Cia of em Altar through the eighties, etceter, except going
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: out into the world with things like Jonestown. But then
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: just here comes the Internet and social media, and they
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: were like, h let's see how this applies there, because again,
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: it's coldish, it's a public community. It's people looking for individualism,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: which is exactly in line with what LST does. You know,
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: looking at yourself you goo death, disassociated for empathy, all
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: that stuff. It all in my mind fits in, especially Kevin,
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: how fucking crazy people have gone online where they're literally
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: living in a different reality. Yeah.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: And as much as I was just kind of praising
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Instagram and shitting on TikTok for being like a foreign
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: invader in this country, you also can't discount how perfectly
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: social media and like DNA websites are kind of setting
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: the stage for like another genocide of sorts race war.
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: One of the most terrifying things I've heard in a
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: documentary recently. There is an alien documentary, a UFO documentary
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: that we covered on the pod recently, and god damn
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: it now I can't remember the name of it, but
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: the subtitle of it is like UFOs and the intelligence community,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: and they interview like a bunch of fucking CIA agents
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: and shit who I'm I guess supposed to trust. And
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: one of the people. In that documentary, For one thing,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: they start hitting on this idea that aliens, like this
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: is some ancient alien shit that aliens came down and
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: like mated with prehistoric people and like created humans. But
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: also this idea that there are some of us who
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: are like extra special versions of that and that those
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: people are like responsible for all the ills of the world.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: And they even mentioned that there should be reparations for
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: people who have fallen victim to this like alien hybrid
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: bloodline that runs throughout the world. And when you couple
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: that with how fucking hard people believe in ancient aliens
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: and how readily we're giving our DNA to these genealogy websites,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: that's gonna be genocide someday. With all of the UFO
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: videos on the fucking NBC News last night, Lester Hoolt
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: just like cal miss shit was like coming up next
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: what scientists are saying about an alien mothership visiting the
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Earth soon. It's like, Jesus, you can't throw that out
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: to the seventy and eighty year olds who are watching
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: this in the Midwest. And also me, like all of
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: that shit is setting the stage for like the most
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: unthinkable shit in this country, but it's not unthinkable. It
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: seems like we're just kind of deciding what kind of
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: fascism we want right now.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: And I'll add of like just to add to that,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: a lot of people will push back on that, being like,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: that's why what America's like. America doesn't do race for us,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: It doesn't do genocide because of race. It was like, motherfucker,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: you ever heard of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, I
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: and every person in my family have to prove within
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: a one sixty fourth percentile how much Indigenous blood we
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: have or they won't let us be a member of
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: our own fucking tribes. Doesn't matter where you grew up,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter any Like, if you are one sixty fourth
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: off from being the correct and this is their word,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: blood quantum, you're not allowed in. So you get no benefits,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: you get no housing, you get no medical care, you
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: get no education, none of that shit. And that was
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: specifically done by the United States government to keep people
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: off reservation so they didn't have to pay more money
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: to take care of people. So you don't think that
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: the United States does horrible race related laws, and they're
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: doing it right now to over three million people in
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: this country deciding whether or not they get to live
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: a life with their families on what's essentially still concentration
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: camps but Indian reservations. Some have casinos. Great, most that
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: money gets off goes off the reservation too. Guess what
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: billionaires who can afford to build the fucking casinos in
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: the first place. But that shit is real, Like, this
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: country cares deeply about race for one set of people.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: And that's the same bullshit that's started in Germany where
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, one drop of Jewish blood and you're
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: a Jew. Yeah, it's it's the same thing in reverse.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I wrote a substack article a few months
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: ago because there was this discussion going around online which
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: has popped up a bunch since Trump. But people were asking,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: is America like sliding into fascism? And it's like, when
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: have we not been fascist? Like I get that Mussolini
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: invented the term, so like, is that the only distinction,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Like well, slavery and indigenous genocide all happened before the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: term was coined, So we're not fascist? Or is it
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: because there's no charismatic leader as fascisms definition demands, I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: would argue America is the charismatic leader. We are the
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: greatest nation on earth. Everyone wants to be here. Fucking
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: ego trucks like, it's not one person, it's just us.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: We are the model of fascism. So the idea that
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: it like another genocide couldn't happen here, get over yourselves.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and just look at Chiefs fans at the Super Bowl.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: You tell me there's a racism enshrined in this country
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: and followed blindly. I mean, look at this way, man.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: Indigenous people have lived under three policies in the United
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: States Jefferson to Grant. Jefferson coined the term extermination policy.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: Ulysses S. Grants ceased the extermination policy not because of
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: any moral compass, because it was too fucking expensive to
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: kill all the Indians. It's got save the millions per month.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: So he changed to the assimilation policy. Allowed the liberals
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: and the Church to take the children to assimilation schools,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: where horrors happened until nineteen seventy seven. That year fucking
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: Star Wars came out, and then the nineteen fifties till today,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: we're living under the determination policy, which is getting people
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: off the reservation into the regular society and that's sort
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: of ended now. But those are the three policies the
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: United States has had towards indigenous people. Extermination, assimilation, and termination.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: Sound good, sounds pretty fascy, It's crazy, man. Like it
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: again goes back to my very first point, like I
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: grew up with a historical context, especially to this country
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: that is not in any way part of the narrative.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, even Cornell West says that the mainstream African
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: American history erases Indigenous Americans, like every part of American
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: culture forgets. That is a huge part of history that
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: they just erase. And then I get called revisionist for
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: bringing up that. Oh, you know, Abraham Lincoln committed San Creek.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: You know those Blue soldiers you root for the Civil War,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: Now they're committing a genocide at the same time on
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: the planes. Like not a hypervile genocide, a actual institutionalized, chosen,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: paid for, and executed genocide.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, we've done it before, we can do it
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: again like this, Oh, no fucking doubt.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm sure there's somebody sitting there at Builderberg
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: or the Bohemia growth in San Francisco would be like, well,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: you know, we're gonna make a lot of money off
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: the body bags.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh man, this country some shit.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a fun chat thought.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a really good episode. Thank you so
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: much for doing it. I think we've reached the end.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: Do you have any final thoughts? No?
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: I think my final thought would be put that on
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: the phone more and drink some water. And it's kind
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: of lay off to social media and be very as
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: someone who's been doing allucinogenics for thirty plus years, use
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: them wisely and with someone in the room who knows
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: what the fuck they're doing.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, please, and uh yeah, just stop trusting the
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: government so much, like especially if it's like, oh well,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden's in office, so our side's winning now. There
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: are no sides, like, it's not how this government works.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Like there's things each side disagrees on, but the things
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: both sides agree on are what are actually the bigger problem.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Everyone's united. When we go to war and start fucking
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: killing poor people in whatever region we've decided to focus on,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: it'll be Africa next. That's the shit you gotta worry about,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: like all the bipartisan shit. Take to it if you want,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: if it makes your Twitter experience better, sure, but worry
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: about the ship both sides agree on Yeah.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: Like I said, patriotism is about seeing seeing the real
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: problems and making the country better by fixing those.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not patriotism if you're forgiving all the shit
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: this country does. It's nationalism, big yea.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: Being proud of Iraq not patriotic. Yeah.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Bad times, bad times? So Zach, thank you so much.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: Do you have anything to plug before we get out
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: of here?
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So you can follow me at up rocks dot com.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: I put up a couple of articles a day about whiskey,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: so you probably need a good poor of whiskey after
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: this chat. But ed also follow me on Instagram at
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: ZTP Whiskey and that is completely whiskey focused. So it's
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: me either posting about some whiskeys I tasted or some
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: events I've been at, but again all whiskey focused. And
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: so if you need a little more good whiskey in
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: your life, follow me and I'll leave you the way.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: And who doesn't. I am writing again at Adam Toddbrown
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: dot substack dot com. I just had surgery to have
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: a needle removed from my face, and having a needle
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: stuck in my face for the past three months has
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: been a distraction. But now that that is all mostly
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: behind me, I will be back to writing regularly. Another
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: season of The Voice just started, so you know I'll
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: be recapping that shit nice. And I think that's it
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: for now. I'm doing a show. I'm doing comedy again,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: also Huntington Beach March twenty second. I don't know where,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: just come to Huntington Beach and follow the scent of
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: my jokes and you'll find it. Or just check out
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown Todd with one D on Instagram or Twitter.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: You can find the deats there. And uh, I think
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: that's it. Let's get the funk out of here. Zach
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: say goodbye, goodbye, goodbye everybody. We love you
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: People of your plans to destroy