Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / The misogyny of lateral violence I have experienced

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The misogyny of lateral violence I have experienced · Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025

• Marina Crane: Okay, so I'm not going to mention your name. I'm just going to say what today is. What may the... What's the date today? 19th? 19th? Well, it's a Wednesday the 20th. We're a day behind. Okay. Okay. So ⁓ what I was saying is like, haven't the chief and council, like my tribe, my domain, my dominion, my everything, they've never helped me with rent, nothing. You know, when I lived in the United States, ⁓ I worked full time and I went to school full time. paid rent. I had to make sure that if I had a whole bunch of roommates, so the cost to rent was so that I could live and pay my tuition. And then 20 years ago when Nathan Chasinghors comes into the community and he takes these child brides, and at the time he wasn't passing them off as child brides. You know, like claiming he was a youth worker and that he was helping these young women and they were going to be like supermodels. You know, like his like I think his one of his children, one of his many children is a supermodel. So back in the days, that's what he promised. And and the thing is, one of the girls and I won't say their names, one of the girls, ⁓ she ended up with Steven Seagal and and just like Jeffrey Epstein, you know, she was He had these women in his home, like doing massages and shit like that. And how I know that is when I went down to Las Vegas and I met some of the survivors who also know these young girls from Soutena. Like that's, you know, I know. And so like, I think just the fact that he was trafficking, like I think one of the ladies just had it. because she was the one who had been introduced to Steven Seagal. think she just had it. And she moved back and then she was instrumental too because it was one thing that Nikki, one of the girls from Sioux, Tennessee, she was 14 when she met Nathan and then the following week when he started picking her up at the school, she turned 15 and he videotaped her. When he took her to a motel, he videotaped her. And the police had all the records, like the text messages he sent her. Like very provocative text messages. And so Nikki had, and again, out of all the victims, Nikki is the only one who at the very beginning ⁓ tried to ⁓ charge him. ⁓ it did, like she, I think for about five years, she collected all the information. And so by the time the other girl who he had taken, see, he didn't take Nikki. She wasn't part of this group of young women that... She was just a student because he was going to school out here talking. And so he had a different audience as well. Any place he put his creepy little hands, like that's where he would... find his victims. yeah, when he took these young women, various leadership made sure that their rent were paid for. if management disagreed, they would be threatened with their jobs. Like there were a couple of band counselors that went into housing and said, you have to pay their rent or you're going to lose your job. And this went on for years. Like I said, by 2015, when the one young woman came back ⁓ because she wasn't, obviously she was, the whole dream about being a supermodel was just ⁓ like a hoax. She came back and then I think the story she brought along with what Nikki had presented five years prior was instrumental in getting him banished. And so our chief, our chief today, Back then he was working with corrections. And so the chief and council were in the process of banishing him. But understand this, this really divided a lot of people because the leadership, even, know, like the head leadership was still paying for the rent and for these people because their last names were one spot. Okay, so. It was really like, almost like the likes it polarized the community. And for whatever reason, bless the, ⁓ the chief and council at that time, they were able to BCR do a band council resolution to get Nathan banished. And they did, but that's because of the two victims that came forward, Nikki and the other lady who had left and, know, had been jilted and coerced into like being trafficked, allegedly trafficked. Like I said, the survivors said, you know, she was treated like how Epstein treated those women in his compound. Well, this was with Steven Seagal. But then everybody was just like so proud that she was with this actor, like he was going to take her places. And that's the guys that Nathan Chasing Horse used. Like he had connections. Like even when he left, there were photos of him in Hawaii. You know, he'd... ask, he'd have his children, the children ⁓ who he had still connection with, their mothers, fly his kids to meet him. And then once they found out what kind of person he was, because they were reading my blog, they ⁓ made sure that anytime their children were with him, that there was an adult where they were accompanied with, they accompanied their child with him, with them, to visit him. So everything was really guarded and even like one of the survivors, says to me, Marina, she said, for decades, we were drinking the Kool-Aid. Everything he told us about you was a lie. And I said, well, I sensed he was sabotaging me, the lateral violence. I got a lady from Oregon telling me she was going to hack my computer because Nathan wanted her to hack my computer over my blog. And so the effort to stop me from publishing anything online had been going on for decades. ⁓ when I went down on November 11th, not November, March 11th, and I met the ladies from California and Montana, like they were Arizona and New Mexico, and they were grateful. They shook my hand, gave me a hug, and elder, thank you for ⁓ putting this blog out because we read it. And so they used my blog as a reference to other people warning about Nathan. And that's the reason I did my blog was to try and get my niece to read my blog because she was so infatuated, so in love, so manipulated by men and family members to think that she was going to eventually end up being Nathan Chasing Horse's wife. For five years, she believed it. And then when she realized it was a guy's sheet, tried reporting it to the police. Now every effort to track down what happened or if it went anywhere was lost. Like she died about four years ago. So every effort she had, any documentation was lost. Cause I know when her mother was dying from cancer, she was telling me that my niece had reported him. And so I knew there was Talk about it. But it was so hard. It was so hard because she was already, she was a high risk teenager and she went into a high risk young woman. And it was horrible. was, she was, like when I say she was a danger, but she tried to, she tried to, like we're talking, you know, really bad stuff and attacks with a machete trying to kill. almost killing my brother, attacking her mother with a golf club, like just angry, just anger at adults. I, like, again, she fell through the cracks. She was being trafficked out of a halfway house in Calgary. And then when my brother was sentenced, she was also in the newspaper in one of Calgary's largest drug busts. This is this is a child, this is a child that was. supposed to be protected under child and family. You know, like to me, to me, like really, when I tell people we do not have sovereignty in our communities because we don't have all the money we make, we should be able to afford a group home for children, different age groups or group shelters for children. Instead we have a shelter for men and a shelter for women. What about the children? You know, when a woman dies and her children have no, like their dad maybe have some problems, can't look after them or hurries out of the picture, those children immediately end up in foster homes in the city. If there's nobody ⁓ in the community as extended family to take them, they go into the city. And like I said, the average age to be trafficked is 14. So the reality of exactly, you know, what's out there for the kids. Again, I go back to the Chief and Council here and this is like 20 years. Like how blind are they? Like really, you know, whatever is happening right now with the Chief and Council, with the survivors of Nathan Chasing Horse and however they pay them, like even to go to the courthouse in Las Vegas, anything, like they paid for them to come back. One of the ⁓ women who was following Nathan, They paid for her entire family to move back from Las Vegas. Like they paid for people who were living in Las Vegas, who were nation members, thousands, like almost $200,000 in rent. Okay. So when they banished him and they're totally trying to wean them off this codependency of, you know, having their rent. See for me, you know, like I said, I've a couple of decades. lived away from my community. Not once did Chief and Council ever pay for my rent. Now, I don't know for what reason, were they afraid that these victims of Nathan Chasing Horse were going to sue them because when he took them, they were children? Again, I think if we were sovereign, yes, I think the Chief and Council would have been sued by the family members who go, why are you paying rent for these children? You're there to protect our children. I don't know for what reason, ⁓ like for me, I think if the nation were sovereign at the time and right now these girls are like in their early 30s, I'd say sue the chief and council. Don't blame the parents. Parents gave their daughters up to this man. ⁓ no, chief and council paid for their rent, paid for everything. It's like even on the fifth estate, one of the ladies who married into suit in a, she wasn't raised here. She was married in divorced her band counselor husband. They paid for her rent and her daughter's rent in Las Vegas. So you can understand how enraged I am that I've lived in suit and I'm like, I'm a suit and a nation member didn't marry in nothing. that when I ask for help, I don't get nothing. Why? Because I don't have children to vote the chief and council in, or I don't have any prominent person. Like I said, various leadership had gone to housing and threatened managers with their jobs if they didn't pay the rent. And when Nathan Chasing Horse was arrested, they paid for like an entire family to be moved back from Las Vegas. Would they have done that for me? No. Would they do that for me today? No. Do you see what I'm saying? You're talking about nepotism and lateral violence. Well, yes, lateral violence. And when I talk about, when I tell people gender apartheid, it goes over their heads. What? Gender apartheid? I'm going look, look at my life. You know, I ran away when I was 18. I was 17. I turned 18 in Vancouver and I was sexually assaulted when I was 19 in my community, not in Vancouver, in my community. And the men who sexually assaulted me were serial rapists. Okay, so understand this. When I was 19, from what the RCMP told me, I was like the like I was like the 14th victim and I was the youngest. So where the hell were all these older women who had been sexually assaulted by these men? And these men were related to leadership. Okay, leadership who enabled Nathan Chasinghorse to stay in our community. Okay. You know, like one of the serial rapists died when he was 27. And the other one, like 30, I'll say 31 years ago, he started serving time for what he did to me. And when I talk to people about it, like they go, Marina, you're emotionally scarred or traumatized. I'm going, look, I said, no. I said, I was compliant. I told them, don't hurt me. I'll do whatever you want. Cause I thought they'd kill me. Even though I had people, my own age group with me, when they took, when those men, when that man grabbed me and pulled me upstairs kicking. Since my peers didn't even come to run and grab me, when I was up there by myself, I knew that they could hurt me really bad. And so I said, don't hurt me, I'll do whatever you want me to do. And then afterwards, when ⁓ the sexual assault was done, ⁓ they dropped everybody off, including one of the predators. And so when we went back to the house, the guy, he's alive now, he's an elder, really, he's been shunned from the community. So he's, lives here, but he, you know, he's, he's paying the consequence like it's karma or the circle of life or the natural law, call it what you want. But, ⁓ you know, he said to me, get upstairs. I was in the car. He says, get upstairs. And I said, if you thought you, if you thought I enjoyed what I did, you've got to be kidding. Cause I was, I complied because. They could have killed me. he punched me. were a victim. He punched me. The first punch I was knocked out. And that's what I explained to people. I said, I have about 20 scars in my head because that first punch I was knocked out. didn't feel anything. He was so enraged. This man was so enraged. Understand this. My father took this man as a nephew because his auntie raised him. So he was like extended family, adopted extended family. And the fact that I didn't want him, the fact that his own mother and extended family in Sutanid didn't want him. And because here we were an adopted family of his who was rejecting him, he was so enraged, he kept on hitting me while I was unconscious. When I woke up, I was in a pool of blood. And I heard his wife. and his sister-in-law looking at me in the car, look, supposedly unconscious. And they said, look at what they did to that poor girl. And I heard them go in the house. Then I heard them coming out screaming because apparently they had confronted him because I was in their car, the unconscious in one of the women's cars. The other sister, they got into the car and they took off. I didn't realize he took a baseball bat to them. It wasn't until, I think, ⁓ a couple of years after I went to court and he was charged as he was charged and guilty and sentenced that a friend of mine ⁓ who I'd known for 30 years, she says, Marina, that morning, this is before I knew her. says that morning, ⁓ his wife, his sister, his his sister-in-law dropped off his wife at my place and I kept her for two weeks. She's the one who explained to me that he took a baseball bat to the two women. See, they were like, like they were there. They were going to rescue me. I know that. So I never really ⁓ thought of lateral violence. I never thought they were malicious enough to be laterally violent to me. But, but for 20 years, the family, the community, they ostracized me. And, and like when I talk about lateral violence, I'm talking about people who aren't even asking questions. Cause I, tell people my story in my community. didn't realize I was just feeding the lateral violence. It wasn't until I met a white woman who was working with mental health, like she'd come out to visit people with like they were bipolar, schizophrenic. And she says, this person, did you ever tell him he hurt you? And I said, yeah. I said, I told him if he thought what I did to him, I enjoyed it. She says, Did you say to him, you hurt me? I said, and I thought, no, I didn't. So that's why I thought, okay, I've got to make a report. I've got to face him in court and I've got to tell him he hurt me. So I did that. It took six years. And I went through three RCMP investigators. I had to finally go to the head supervisor on 16th Avenue, Northeast to make a complaint about the investigation. And within six months they had issued a warrant, but he was living in BC. And as soon as he came into Alberta, they arrested him. And that's like after 20 years. Okay, now understand this, during the six years of the investigation, that's when the RCMP reported to the judge that I wasn't his first victim and that they approached these Sutana women, either they'd been married in or raised here, if they would come forward and also charge him. And each one of them, over 10 of them, refused. Now, the only reason I could say why they were ⁓ like fawning, know, fawning where they don't want to make cause any ripples or have any conflict directed to them is either because of their jobs or they were related to to the perpetrators. So, so, yeah, the the the two girls that Nathan chasing horse took were the granddaughters of the serial rapist. How's that for paradox or irony? Which to me, you know, like, dude, like just the lateral violence and the, like, like the reason I'm saying that is, like as, indigenous women, need to tell, tell our stories. We need to validate and support the victims because if we don't physically do it, then we're not protecting our own children. And so because, because those women who were laterally violent towards me, projecting all that hate they had towards their husbands. Understand this, those men were violent to their wives. Violent. I could understand why they were so scared. And I can understand why a lot of battered women will refuse to testify against their husbands. now get this, when I lodged the complaint, the RCMP also questioned the two men. There were two men and two women, like boys, two boys and one girl. The girl had died, but they questioned the two young men who were now men and had children. They had questioned them about, because they were in the house when I was sexually assaulted. And of course they're going to deny it. But the one tried to run me off the road during the investigation. And I had to report them. So I went to court in Okotoks. He had, lost his license for a whole year. But at the time that I was in the courthouse in the courtroom, ⁓ there was the, ⁓ woman before me, she had reported her husband who was a police officer. She reported him for spousal abuse. And so when she got up there, the judge, the lawyer, and like everybody said, she's not, she's not a ⁓ friendly witness. She's refuses to testify against her police husband. So they have to dismiss that or just leave it on record that her police husband had been reported to have been assaulting his wife. So the history of spousal abuse and the lateral violence isn't just with Indigenous people, but it is important for women or victims of any kind of violence to report it. Now, that being said too, I have a friend, when she was a child, ⁓ Like she says, my mom didn't really look after me. And this is a white woman. She said, did, I hitchhiked, I cut myself into things that I shouldn't have gotten into. She said, I have a vague memory of being in this truck. He took me down into this valley. She says, I don't remember what happened there. She said, I just remembered I was leaving the valley. And so now as a 66 year old woman, she says, I don't need to deal with that. Because like again, this is my whole premise is when you're older, it's really difficult for like disclosure and narrative and healing ⁓ in order to ⁓ deal with triggers needs to be done when you're younger. Like my friend needed to do this when she was in her 20s or 30s, not when she's 66. And she says, I, she says, I know that that's why I'm not dealing with it. She says, you know, she can be a therapist, but not deal with ⁓ sexual ⁓ abuse cases. And I said, yes. I said, because they don't teach certain things in university, in social work or ⁓ in therapies. I said, they don't. And so if you fail the course and you're out there as ⁓ like an unhealthy therapist, you know, like, excuse me, I think. Indigenous people have gone through so many unhealthy therapists coming out like being like what privileged or what they call it that you know when you have that God complex Where you think you can heal everybody? But you also have to remember, there's a number of people that go into psychology or go into social work because they have problems themselves. They've been victims. Maybe they don't have to be Indigenous. They could be non-Indigenous. Yes, of course. That's why I'm telling you the story. Like I'm saying... That's exactly right. I'm saying like, look at the former chief. You know, this guy, when he was in high school denied he was indigenous. You know, when these white kids would ask him if he was indigenous, says, no, I'm Mexican. And this is coming from suit and the people who actually heard him say that to these white kids in high school. Then he, then he becomes a milkman. He marries a white woman. have, know, and again, there he is, you know, messing around with indigenous girls in suit in a, but we're not good enough to be married to him. you know, because he's so ashamed to be indigenous. And then because he's Catholic, okay, because again, all this is coming from Catholicism. You know, and he's passing himself off as being this healthy person, just like a healthy therapist or a healthy social worker. Here's a healthy politician. My goodness, the amount of therapists, the amount of people that he tried to get to come into the community who were frauds. He had this lady with a PhD. Progillant PhD. I had to report her to the psychology association It took three years for the Calgary City police to raid her office in Calgary She took off like a bat out of hell back in the United States Now that's how vulnerable that's how much if you don't deal with your shit as a leader as a therapist or anybody a youth worker It's you know natural law catches up like look just like like now How much money has this former chief spent on medicine men, on therapists, for what? To hide his perversion? When this forensic psychologist who I'd known for 30 years, was this leader's therapist, I called him into my home because I needed to make sure that when the police came, the tribal police came after Nathan Chasinghorse was arrested, I wanted him to validate that I had asked him to interview my niece. I needed proof because she wasn't under child and family. I wasn't under child and family with Sutan at any time. That I wanted somebody to validate that, yes, I tried to get help from my niece, that she was high risk, she was a danger to herself and others. So I invited... And this the forensic psychologist had interviewed my niece. And so I had him, I had him here when the tribal police came so that they could, you know, valid so that he could validate. Yes, Marina has been trying to help her niece. That's why I wrote the blog, because I knew she was on social media. I thought if she's on social media and she looks up Nathan chasing horse because she's obsessed with him, she hopefully will find my blog and she'll. realize like what I'm trying to say about him. So that was the impetus or the catalyst to start my blog was to reach out to my niece. And that's what I explained to the tribal police. The meantime, this forensic psychologist, he discloses that he was the therapist to the former chief, the former chief who's been now ⁓ has now been charged with two historical sexual assault cases against men. Here's this forensic psychologist telling the tribal police that this former client of his had a propensity for boys. Okay, and he never told me this. He disclosed this in front of the tribal police. And I'm just there going, what? Because for years he was saying, ⁓ he's the reason why Nathan Chasing Horse is thriving in Sudina. I couldn't understand it. I didn't understand until he disclosed to the tribal police of this leadership's propensity for boys. So whatever reason he was attracted to Nathan Chasing Horse and for whatever reason he supported Nathan Chasing Horse and Nathan's followers, understand this. This is two decades of Sutana Nation members collecting tithing every month to send to Nathan. Some people even gave him $10,000 just to pray over the ring road. Some people, you know, like some people bought him a whole entire camping set for his Sundance. Thousands, thousands of dollars came out of Soutena from nation members to this man, all because leadership was supporting him. One of the ladies like I said one of the ladies who wasn't even married here when she was interviewed by the fifth the state She says ⁓ I spent over two hundred thousand dollars on him. I bought him a new vehicle saying that he bought Nathan chasing horse a new vehicle You know half of that money that she spent had to have been on rent that the chief and council had been paying for in Las Vegas for Nathan to live in like the amount of ⁓ Like this man, this Nathan Chasinghors had his wives establish companies in the States, in Las Vegas, for hundreds of thousands of dollars as startup costs for their companies. I don't know if there was five or six false companies. So you can imagine like the amount of other tribes like Sutena that he scavenged money from, from people that he knew he could manipulate funds from. Like how strong is our leadership when they couldn't even stand up and say no to him, but yet they can stand up and say no to me. Somebody who's grown up here, somebody who's been warning them about this man because he is a man and what am I? I'm just an indigenous woman. What? ⁓ yeah, she's got a lot of anger and shit like that. I'm going, what? You know, they project all that hatred towards indigenous women. to indigenous elder women, to grandmothers, to aunties, to moms, to sisters, because of, for some other, for some reason, which to me is laterally violent in its gender apartheid. This is what the Indian agents set up. This is what has been going on for 500 years and to deconstruct it in modern times and saying, you think it's modern times, but we're still living under a colonial system. where women are not understood or even the fact that when we become elderly, if we haven't dealt with our shit, then how good are we to even advocate for the protection of our children or even the protection of our own sisters, mothers, aunts and grandmothers? You know, that's the stark reality of Indigenous politics in our communities. I have friends who have... homes where their adult children are living with them. I have friends who are grandmothers who are raising their grandchildren. Yes. And where are the men? Where are the brothers? are the ex-husbands? Where are these men? I know when my cousin says, it's slim pickings, I'm going, yes, but you're shutting yourself off to all men. And that's not right. I said, that's not fair to you. I said, because you're a sexual human being. Lateral violence. by community standards should not restrict women's sexual health. Well... know what to say but this has been going on for generations and I don't see it stopping anytime soon. But the reality of it is to talk about it. know what it actually is? That's the starting because what have our women done in the past? They've been shamed into silence. But it's not just women. This is what I want to get across to Indigenous men too. The Indian Agent, Indian Residential School, They groomed our people, children, to be what they call infantilized. To fawn, to fawn and make sure, you know, the more you fawn is like, I don't want to say anything because I don't want to get people in trouble. I don't want to be in trouble because they know if as a child, if they got in trouble, they get punished. Either they'd be deprived of eating or sleeping or, you know, or they'd run away. Like I say, my father ran away. They caught him. as punishment, they put him in a cold attic with the dead bodies of children in Edmonton. You know, like just the horror stories of, you know, people, girls and, you know, just boys like the like I can't even comprehend how scared my parents would have been or even my grandparents to have some white person threaten them with their lives if they spoke their language. I spoke ⁓ to a Nigerian ⁓ community a few days ago, and they all spoke their language. They all spoke their language. Immigrants in Nigeria. And I said, you know, here I am speaking English. And they're listening and I'm telling them about the history of colonialism, the history of oil and gas and the greed for land and possession and how to... try and kill the indigenous soul, the spirit of our children. I said the largest amount of residential schools in Alberta. I said the grooming, just trying to make sure our children were ashamed to be indigenous. I said, you know, growing up and going to school at Fairview School and having these kids wagon burners squaw, I had to fight them. You know, I mean, mind you, you know, they're kids. So I think some of them are just ⁓ probably infatuated with, know, wanted to have some physical contact like little boys. But the reality of it is they, by the time I was in high school, they just shunned me. know, boys that I was friends with in elementary school, all of a sudden, you know, I'm untouchable. So, you know, growing up like that, as well as being around white girls who, you know, I had a white friend right from elementary school. right up until a few, maybe 20 years ago. And I went to a meeting in Calgary with Arts Development and this woman was there. She said she was Métis and she was using some Dakota name, Eagle something woman in Dakota. I'm Dakota. spoke, you know, my mom spoke fluent Dakota, my grandmother, my aunts, my cousins. So I'm saying to her, where did she get the name? Okay, she's passing herself off with the Calgary City Police, with the Calgary School Board. I can't even remember her name now. And so I contacted my friend because she's this woman, the so-called Métis woman, mixed blood woman, because obviously she's not Métis, but she was passing herself off as one. She said she knew my childhood friend from elementary school, my friend from elementary school, junior high, high school and university. That's how long I knew this white girl who's a white woman now. And so I contacted her and I said, I met this lady, this Metis woman. She says, she knows you. She ⁓ yes, yes. She lived in Ontario. Her father was white, ⁓ divorced her indigenous mom, took the child into BC, into the United States and raised her there. Now she's come to Alberta and she's reconnecting with her indigenous side. I'm going, ⁓ really? See, the thing is that what my high school, my childhood friend doesn't realize, like there's a lady who does a really good podcast. Her father's white. She is an advocate. She says, my father's white. My mother's in Inuit. She says, I know my father ⁓ is a racist. He'll be a racist until the day he dies. He says, I know how he treated my Inuit mother. I said, yes, when you come from matriarchy and you marry a white man, you're cut off from that. You're cut off from that community of women. said, and she says, yes, my mother had to suffer through anxiety, depression, no community. I mean, even my aunt who lived in Calgary, my mom used to say, join the Métis community, other indigenous women who live in the city. because again, she was raised matriarch. So anyway, ⁓ I'm talking to my friend and my former acquaintance, and I said to her, yeah, your friend is saying she, you I saw her at Arts Development. And so the next time I went to the meeting, her so-called friend confronts me. Marina, heard you were talking to so-and-so about me. And I said, yes, I have every right to. She says, no, you don't. I said, yes, I do. Especially when you're claiming to be, you you have you got a Sioux name. I'm Sioux. Because I told my friend, I know these people in the Dakotas where this name comes from. I said that woman has stolen a name, a very famous name of a very famous Dakota woman, and she's passing herself off in the city of Calgary with this name. I said I could I could make trouble for her by contacting the family of origin. I said, this woman thinks this woman can say she's indigenous and doesn't understand matriarchal law. And that was like one of the last times I was ever invited back to the, again, that took a couple of years and then they started inviting me back because I don't know where this woman disappeared to. I contacted tribal police and they said, oh yeah, we're familiar with her. I said, she's not indigenous. She's not indigenous and she's not Métis. I said, and even the story of her living in the States, no connection with indigenous people. She's not even owning that her father is racist. At least you have people in Calgary who have mixed blood, whose mother is indigenous, that are telling the truth about their racist dad. I said, that's the reality. said, I have uncles that are white. My cousins, again, the Sioux have been mixing for decades. My great grandmother had blue eyes. spoke fluent Dakota. So when I talk about mixing, I'm talking about the reality of racism. I was talking with my cousin, we were talking about our cousins. They said, know, their father's white in those ranch, those farmers in the plains in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Some of these white families didn't like the fact that their son had married a ⁓ savage, and all their kids would have their own house. They would be segregated from within their white families. That's how racist they were. So indigenous people who have mixed blood relatives, we know, we talk about it. Look, I have first cousins who have never stepped in my home, never. Really. But what's so hard to believe? When you talk about lateral violence and the, like I said, we can talk about it and we have to talk about it because, you know, shame has a lot to do with it. Even like whatever emotion. The only thing for me is that's a red flag is when people try to guilt trip you or when people say you're trying to make you feel guilty. Anything like that has nothing to do with healing. Guilt has nothing to do with healing. Shame, ⁓ frustration, know, just loneliness, any other emotion. You have to face it. You deal with it. You have a support system. You come in place and you heal from it. That's why, like when I talk to people about, like when people were, even when I came back from Las Vegas and how I was shunned. Marina, why'd you go down there? I said I went down there for the victims, not the victims here in Sudina, but the victims of the ones who had contacted me for 14, 15 years, those who'd been reading my blog for 20 years. I said I went down there to support them. I'd never met them. They never met me. It was closure for me. It was closure for me to support them. I said, I said the fact is it, I'm not there to listen to their stories. If they want to share, they can. I'm just there to hold space for them, to let them know they're not alone, that there are thousands of other victims out there that they don't even know about. That's the fact that people are the victims of Nathan Chasing Horse are listening to what's happening, the outcome. of them getting justice. I said, for me, I had to be present because my niece died. What happened to her, she morphed into this person that was ⁓ a danger to herself and others. I worked with high risk teenagers in Utah. I saw how they became predators. And for me, as a teenager growing up in my community, and with parents who were raised in Indian residential school, they didn't know about high risk behavior. I was in the thick of it. And yet, you know, learning about it and stepping back and saying, I can't participate in this. And I didn't even know, like, if I stopped doing things, even if I tried to have a goal, a G-O-A-L, to accomplish things, even if it was based on a faulty narrative of illusion or delusion, it got me, it helped me survive. And like I said, when I moved back and I was sexually assaulted at 19, I wanted to have my own place. So I did the proposal for the first daycare center. I think it was 50,000 and we hired ⁓ a ⁓ director and some staff and it was just a small little daycare, maybe 10. 20 kids at the first, but to oversee the renovation, just, they had a social worker, the money came in and I asked the chief and council if I could be the janitor in the basement of this little rickety old agency home. And they said no, because I was a single female. Okay, so la-di-da, you know, they said you can be a bookkeeper after you come back from high school. I went back to high school ⁓ in my twenties, early twenties. And then, and then my mother, my father passed away and then my mother was an ⁓ alcohol drug abuse counselor. They, there was some lateral violence towards her and she was under pressure to get a detox treatment center going. So I helped her, volunteered, wrote the submitted it over 100,000 or something renovated this two story old agency building. And again, hired staff like the management hired staff. The money came in based on my proposals, right? Again, submitted it like I wanted to move into the basement so I could be the janitor. And again, they said no, you're a single female. Now understand this because of what I did, the chief and council back then. passed a policy that no woman who's a soutina could ask for a house. The only time a single soutina woman who had no children could apply for a house was after the age of 55 years old, which restricted me from ever applying for a house. Understand this, I lived away from my community for two decades paying paying rent, paying for my own education. Not once ever getting help from chief and council. Why? Because I was a single Indigenous female. As the Indigenous men live in the community, get voted into the community, get their own homes, get ranches and whatever they do, I and Indigenous women were at the bottom of the totem pole. Unless... Unless you were married or married in The majority of times I think I think the women who married in were so laterally violent of whatever they lived with their communities they brought that shit into our communities and projected it onto people like myself and Whatever dirty gossip they created about me. Like I said these two women who initially had wanted to rescue me as they saw me unconscious in the car were married in. And for all those decades, just to save their asses from getting the hell beaten out of them by their serial rapist husbands, they protected themselves. Are they still living? ⁓ Just one is. Just one woman is. The one perpetrator is still alive. And the reality of it is nobody, he has no friends. He goes to a car dealership every day, sitting there just to meet strangers. I guess, much like if I go to the casino and just sit and meet strangers, maybe I'm in my own little hell. But that's the reality. You know, that is the reality. Like I said, I was shunned for going down to Las Vegas because ⁓ they thought I was going there because I was obsessed with Nathan Chasing Horse. Even though I'm saying, I'm there supporting these women. The whole context of why they can't comprehend what I started 20 years ago. Yet those women who I met, who told me about their lives with Nathan Chasing Horse, like some for 35 years, some for 25 years, like that's a long time to be drinking the Kool-Aid. And for them to own that, yeah, they were laterally violent towards me until they realized like what he was doing. You know, like the empowerment or the validation those women gave me was life altering and life changing for me. And the very fact that these women who ostracized me in Sutana can't even do that for me? Shame on them. They don't deserve me to be a friend to them. How's that for awakening? They don't. And that's okay. And that's all right. All right, my friend, I need to go. Yes. Well, thank you for listening. like I I do hear healing in your voice. Healing? Yeah. Oh, I appreciate that. You're much calmer. You're much more relaxed. And I know you're healing. It's been a long time coming. Yes, it has been, but you're there now. Okay? Yes. So I will see you soon. Okay. Yes. Take care. Okay. You too. Bye-bye.