Latest / Beheaded / Wanted Over the Wireless | Dr. Crippen

Transcript

Wanted Over the Wireless | Dr. Crippen · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to season four, episode two.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm Megan Moore, and I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth, thanks for cleaning my microphone.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think I have monkey tendencies where I like to just like pick at things.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: It's very clean.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: You took all the lint off of the styrofoam.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, when I walked into this room, your dog had the little microphone stretchy thing that goes over it on her paw and was walking around around with it.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: So it collected quite a bit of filth.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: I had to pick the filth off.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: It looks really good from my angle.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: If there ends up being a really awkward cut and pause, my dog Penny is currently in the room and she's normally not allowed in the room while we're podcasting because she just wants to join and get into things and rummage around and make noise and then scratch at the door.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: And she'll sleep all day.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: She's like the deadest animal ever until we start podcasting.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden she wants to be lively and because she knows we're like having conversations.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: So she thinks we're like open to be engaging with her.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: And so she likes to kind of come forward, yeah, stick her nose in our business, literally.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: And if she's not doing that, then she's bored.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: And she'll start walking around and she'll pull out like our sheets and our all of our like acoustically sounds.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: She starts pawing at things.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Set up.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she'll paw at the door to be let out.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: But she looks, I mean, she looks dead, right?
1:20
SPEAKER_00: She looks dead right now.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: She actually breathing.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: She had a big day.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: Because I was here, I was here working from not home.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Can you go home soon?
1:30
SPEAKER_00: You've been here for over 12 hours.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I've been here all day.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: We had important things in the works.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: We needed to meet early before work, so I came over very early.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, I'm not gonna leave because we're gonna record tonight, so I get to hang out.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: I like it when you hang out with me, you know, an all-day hangout fest.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: It was nice because it's like, you know, we we don't get to see all of each other's day all the time.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Like in terms of again, we're at the same company and different departments, so it was like, oh, what does Megan talk about in her meetings?
1:56
SPEAKER_01: I know.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: We had to build out our social calendar for the next year in my department, so we had to do all that behind the scenes.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: We touch base, circle back.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: This is how we interact, deep dive, something hop into the Zoom room.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: That's the life we live all day.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Just a bunch of business idioms and buzzwords all the time.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: Just enough to drive you a little crazy.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Just take this offline, we'll circle back on it Monday.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: And if you finish a meeting early, you say, Here's some of your time back.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Give you some of your time back.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: It's like five minutes.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, thanks.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: I hate when I catch myself saying these phrases, but some phrases you really just want to say.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Circle back.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Circle back, I say a lot.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Touch base is just so common now.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: You say that all the time.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Or like, um, I'll say, oh, let's like deep dive into this.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh god, the deep dive.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm a deep diver.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna deep dive into deep.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: I pull apart things, take it offline.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: It's a big, yeah.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: I do take things offline.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: That whole, ooh, ooh, when I get the whole, let's just take this offline.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: You feel like you said something offending.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I said something I'm not supposed to say in front of everyone else.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Which take it offline for those who aren't in like the business idiom world means like, uh, you should not say that in front of ten other people.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: This is a you and me conversation.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: This is an A-B conversation, so see your way out.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I just said like I offended somebody hardcore whenever I'm told that.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, well, great, we're gonna take that offline.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: I get the look, I'm like, oh my god, what did I say?
3:25
SPEAKER_00: What did I say that needs to be taken offline?
3:27
SPEAKER_00: Can't we discuss as a group?
3:28
SPEAKER_00: I have my seven-year work anniversary this week.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Seven?
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
3:33
unknown: Wow.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And at the company we're at, seven is like dog year.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: So really I've been there for like 49 years.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, that's true.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Congratulations.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Just shy of your uh, what is it, diamond anniversary?
3:47
SPEAKER_01: No, diamond is 60.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: What's 50?
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Gold.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Gold anniversary.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: I'll get you some gold nice.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Um what have you been up to?
3:55
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, uh, since the last time we spoke, um, no, I actually meant to talk about this in our intro episode because it's been a recent obsession of mine, but I've been really getting into Settlers of Catan.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Which I played in circa 2010.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: I know, I'm a bit more.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: It's a fun game.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: No, it's fun.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: No, I appreciate that.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: I like it.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: So, like, um, uh I don't know, I don't even know how it came about.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, we were kind of like bored early summer again, like we tried to have this lazy summer, we bought board games, blah, blah, blah.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so my my boyfriend was like, we have to get this game.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's been forever since I played, and I was like, Oh, I've heard of this game.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: I think I may have tried it once or twice, but we got deep into the game.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Did you deep dive into it?
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Deep dove into the game, and I am a road builder.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: I tend to get the longest road.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, I he's a he's a dev boy, we call him, because he's such a you know, gets the development cards.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: So we each have our strategies.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it oh, I just like every time we're together, we're like, we gotta play.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Board games are fun.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, have you played Ticket to Ride?
4:56
SPEAKER_00: No, it's very similar.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but it's trains, and there's different editions are in different countries.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: So the original is in America.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: But I have the Ticket to Ride European, like Orient Express.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: It's all very 1800s themed.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: But your point like the goal of the game is you're handed two countries and you have to get from like point A to point B.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: But you make the tracks and you can build bridges and whatever.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: It's very similar to settlers in that sense where you have to build the track, but then others can intercept you and like you have to, and then you have to take a longer route to get to like Athens to London or something.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's cool.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Is it strictly like a passenger train, or do you have to pick up like resources like Catan kind of thing?
5:43
SPEAKER_01: It's just a passenger train.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Shoot, I live for the resources.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: I even when I was out of town, I told you guys in the first episode of the season that like I went to Utah for like a while.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: I literally just took pictures of the resources in real life because I was so like missing playing the game with him.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, hey, here's hay, like, here's sheep, here's brick.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: That's actually really funny.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: And like anytime he would like text me, like, oh, how are you doing?
6:07
SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, here's three sheep, or no, excuse me, like, here's three hay and two or meaning like it's a city.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm in a city.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Here's such a funny thing.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: I would only communicate via Katan resources.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: It's a fun game.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: We should get together.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, we haven't played it all together, so the four of us need to get together and do it.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: We should create like an execution, how to get off innocent game debt.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I think there is one.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: There's one about the Salem Witch trials.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Really?
6:34
SPEAKER_00: I've never played it, I've never purchased it, but I saw it on an ad-once.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: We have to investigate.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's something like our own beheaded game.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: We have to think about that.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: I actually have another friend, and they're really into board games, and they actually design board games too, and they would enter contests of like board game design.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: It's a whole industry.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure, and I'm sure artwork and quality and the intricacies of the game, and then it has to make sense when other people play it.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Like it can't be too hard, it can't be too easy.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a whole thing.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, like you think about even just like getting Katan, like the the rule book is like eight pages long.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And there's different rules if you have the expansion pack and like blah blah blah, you know.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: What's the aesthetic?
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Are you going for?
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, like that one game, Munchkin, is really fun, yeah, but it's like quirky and sarcastic and goofy.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, I remember the start of the game rules, it's like the first person to start is the person whose birthday is last.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Or you can all just argue about what that sentence means and whose birthday was last until you just decide it's gonna be the person to the left, or like something like it's just very facetious.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, anyways.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: Wow, we just did our whole 10-minute banter on the phone.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, but that's important because we just came up with a solid example.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: We did.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Good idea.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: I was looking, I was drinking my wine while you were saying that last bit, and I was like, well, wine has to be a part of our board game.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Like there's like a wine boost.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: You get like you get a card and it's a wine boost.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Who was it who drank the was it William Kidd who got drunk all the way?
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And Maggie Dixon.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Didn't she get drunk all the way too to her execution?
8:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if she was drunk.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Half hang it Maggie?
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember the drunk part.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: But he was William Kid, Captain.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: That could be part of somehow to like get out of your, oh, and then like a guy Fox situation.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, how are you gonna escape your execution if well he didn't escape, but he just like right, did himself out before.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Or like um Black Betty, where she became the executioner.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: We've had some ones.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: So they're all different characters.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: There's different ways, like your strong suit to escape an execution.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: You either get drunk or you become the executioner, or you, you know, we we could all have different.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: I think we're on to something here.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's put a little pin in this.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: Let's circle back on this.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: We'll touch base offline on Thursday Junior.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: We'll circle back.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Hop into my Zoom room.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: This is how we interact.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: This is how we interact.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I like that a lot.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, quick little plug to again, we've talked about you know things that we've been into in the last few weeks.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, so how should we phrase this?
9:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what you're gonna talk about.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: I literally don't know where you're going.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: In my head, there's so many things I need to talk about because our listeners like-s about Taylor Swift?
9:11
SPEAKER_01: No, but I like that you always bring it back to your passion.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: No, my passion, as we know, I love Lord of the Rings, and Rings of Power came out, and I have many thoughts on that, which I feel like I'm gonna just save for next episode because I have too much to say.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: But I got really into Rings of Power and House of Dragon, and there's just too much to cover right now about both of those things, but I watched all of the the first uh uh what do you call it?
9:32
SPEAKER_01: First season episodes of each new show, and I'm so excited.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, the where the direction I was actually going was a quick plug for Blood, Sex, and Royalty on Netflix, which if you're an executionado, you should be very excited for this.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: You should be show slash documentary, what do you want to call it?
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Docuseries?
9:54
SPEAKER_00: It's one of those really cool half dramas, half documentaries where it's really high quality acting, and then all of a sudden it'll interrupt, and then the historians will start talking about the fic like the facts of what's going on.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so sex, blood, and royalty is about blood, sex, sex, and royalty, royalty, sex, and blood.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Look up that combination, you'll find it sex, you know, royalty that like blood and sex.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Weird.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, there's a great cast of historians.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: Some that we've talked about, some that we may or may not feature in the future.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Dr.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Susanna Lipscomb is on it.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: Dr.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Emerson's on it.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Dr.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Owen Emerson, the curator of Heaver Castle, is on it.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, it comes out November 23rd.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: There's a trailer for it.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: I keep watching the trailer.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's gonna be amazing.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: So we'll debrief on that once it comes out and we've we've seen it, we have some thoughts.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: We'll definitely have to talk about it.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: I finally got I did get caught up on becoming Elizabeth.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: There are some characters, real people on that show that are going to be episodes soon.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: That's exciting.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I tried to be vague and ominous, although everyone could probably figure out who I'm talking about.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Keep it vague.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: I had mixed feelings about it, to be honest.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Really?
11:16
SPEAKER_00: I liked a lot of it.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: A lot of it they did kind of take their own liberties as they do.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a historical drama.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: So I get it.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: They have to also make it exciting and um shoot, I just really want it stiff and boring.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: I want the facts.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I get it.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't I don't like all the direction where they went with the whole Thomas Seymour and Elizabeth situation.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: Um but there are still some really good parts.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: I am just still flabbergasted by their casting because from Edward to Mary Tudor, even what's her name?
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Bella Ramsay as Jane Gray, never would have pictured Bella Ramsey as a young lady Jane Gray.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, uh wow, we are 16 minutes into rambling, so we should probably get it together.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, we are giving Megan the honor of introducing our person today and talking about the early life.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: So I'd love you to just go for it, Megan.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Don't judge.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: We made a comment in one of the later episodes last season that if Megan starts with early life, it means I don't know shit.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Which sometimes is true.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: It's not true today.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Whenever there's things about science, I don't know what's going on.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Science and philosophy or philosophy or names like Broomhilde that I don't understand.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: Indeed.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: I will start with early life.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: I feel good about this one though.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: There was some really good like uh reenactments and shows that we watched about this.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have never heard of this person before, but evidently a lot of people have.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, I suggested him for our podcast because I am a huge Eric Larson fan.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: I think I've mentioned this.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: I've definitely posted about him on my Instagram.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: But Eric Larson is like one of my favorite authors, if not maybe my favorite, because he writes nonfiction books, so they're true, but he writes them as if they're fiction because that's how like fantastical these storylines are.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Um so my first book, I think most people who know him have read Devil in the White City, which is about uh the Chicago World's Fair that happened in the late 1800s, and simultaneously there's like a person who's abducting and murdering people.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's these cool parallel storylines of like building the World's Fair, but also there's a serial killer on the loose.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: Wasn't that about H.H.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Holmes?
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: And we did the And we did H.H.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Holmes.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I already kind of mentioned this in that episode.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: And so this is kind of Eric Larson part two, because he also wrote a book about the person we're gonna do today, and he um overlaps that with the story of wireless telegraphs and how the inventor of wireless telegraphs like created his technology and how he moved the industry forward and all that.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: So we'll get into some of that and what that means.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: But Eric Larson, if you haven't read him, please do.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, we are gonna be talking about Dr.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Crippen.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Holly Harvey Crippin.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: And Holly is spelt H-A-W-L-E-Y, not H-O-L-L-Y, like a girl.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And if I ever call him Dr.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Creepin, it is unintentional.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm a creepy.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's not the thing.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: You just mixed two songs.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm a creep, I'm a loser.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: But you're also doing like I'm a bitch, I'm a loser.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: No, I was the song is I think T L C isn't it?
14:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm a creep, or is it I don't know what you're singing.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I should play it.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: I should play it for you.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, anyways, while you're trying to do that, I will start with the early life of Dr.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: Crippen.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: Dr.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: Crippen was American.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: On a good roll.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Nailed it.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: He was born September 11th, 1862, as Elizabeth said, a Holly Harvey Crippen.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: He was born in Coldwater, Michigan.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: So a very American family.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: He was pretty smart.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: He studied homeopathic medicine, um, moved over to Cleveland to study.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: And then uh he did get married pretty young.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: His first wife, uh her name's Charlotte.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: She actually had a stroke and died when their son, Otto, was 17 months old.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: And that really tore him up.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: At this point, he was 30 years old when she died, and it pretty much just like threw him upside down.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: He didn't feel emotionally stable to raise their son as they do in the 1800s.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: So he very conveniently had his son um be raised by his grandparents.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: Right.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: Or his parents.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: His parents, his son's grandparents.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Um he then started his own homeopathic practice in New York, and two years later he married his second wife, Corrine or Cora Turner.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: What was her actual name?
15:50
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say this is kind of funny because uh Cora was actually born this terrible name, which I understand why she changed it.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: It's called Kunagoon Makamowski.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good job.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: Nailed it.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, so changed it to Cora Turner, which is a very lovely name.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh her her original name was from her Poland Polish Russian father slash German mother, you know, creating that fun name for her.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: So even beyond that, so she changed her name.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: My assumption is we didn't actually prove this anywhere, but my assumption is she wanted a more Americanized name, living in America.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: But even after that, she changed her name, not really changed it, but she had a stage name.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: So she was enthralled with theater and she wanted to be a famous opera singer.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, she wasn't very talented, and she just couldn't nail that role as an opera singer.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: But she did have a stage name, and that stage name was Belle Elmore.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Which I like it because if you say it kind of quickly, it sounds like Bellamore.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Bellamore.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: Belle Elmore.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: It was beautiful.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Because she couldn't really make it big and the sophisticated opera houses, she moved over into being a singer for music halls.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: And I love this era because it's still old enough where it's extremely vintage and you know the start of the industrial is it kind of like vaudeville, a bit.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: And I love it because they have pictures of everything.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Like it's still old, but it's still new enough for there to be the black and white photographs.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: So we will post pictures of this.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend looking up some things about Dr.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Krippen and his wife Cora because there are some cutie pictures of her and her costumes and doing a tiny little corset.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Like she's kind of a largish woman, but tiny little corset.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sucking in.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, disproportional.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah, so she is having, I guess, a lot of fun doing that.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, uh Dr.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: Krippin, he moves over because he is really interested in homeopathic medicine.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: He starts working for Dr.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Munyan's homeopathic pharmaceutical company.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: The way I can picture this is those old vintage bottles that had like the natural remedies and tried Dr.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Munyon's cough syrup.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's so that's what he was starting to do.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: And he was really interested in this new wave technology, or I guess not technology, but new wave medicine.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Alternative medicine.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Alternative medicine of natural healing and whatnot.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Which is important because he has access to and knowledge about different things that makes the body do things like die.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Do things like die.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: It's very important later.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: So in 1897, uh Dr.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Criffin and Cora actually moved to England.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: I think they're both kind of ready to get a fresh start.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: It was more so Crippin's idea because Cora was pretty satisfied in New York, you know, at these small-time music halls, but he convinces her, hey, maybe if we go to London, you'll have a new shot at becoming the opera singer you've always wanted to be.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Y'all go and support your career over there.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Let's move across, you know, the Atlantic.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: So they move um to England.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: They find out pretty quickly, though, that his um basically qualifications to be a doctor in the US are not sufficient enough to make him a doctor in the UK.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: Shocking.
19:09
unknown: I know.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Homeopathic.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: You can't just start your doctor someplace else.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: So he had to actually um work uh as a distributor of pat uh of patent meds.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: So he was again kind of continuing his work that he had at Munions, but in a little more of a clerical capacity, because again, he wasn't considered a doctor when they went to UK, even though he still went by Dr.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Crippin.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: I find that interesting.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't you if you were once a doctor?
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna reduce your title then to I was gonna say, and technically he has the MD at the end of his name, so he's gonna keep that.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: He's just not practicing.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: He's still a doctor.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like when a doctor retires.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: My grandpa was a dentist.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: And he still went by doctor.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: I like Dr.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Irving.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: It reminds me of um uh the hangover when he's like, doctor, and like, dude, you're a dentist.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, What does he say?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: It ain't bragging if it ain't true.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: He still went to medical school and had a lot of student loans problems.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, right.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Um so so anyway, at this point, um, he's still again very much supporting Cora's dreams to the point where in 1899 um he actually gets fired uh from his job because he's really spending too much time on his wife's career.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Again, he's really there being supportive, being there to make sure he's progressing her forward as well.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: But quick note about their relationship: they really couldn't have been more different.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Like Crippen was known to be very meek, very reserved, very quiet.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you know, when he was growing up, he's very studious, that's how he got to where he is.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: Whereas Korra had the complete opposite personality where she wants to be the center of attention.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: She is, you know, vivacious, she is loud, she likes to sing in front of people, she likes to dance, she loves to just be, again, the center of everyone's world.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like she wasn't talented to she also wasn't talented, so she's probably just annoying.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: I just can picture that person who always has to Oh god, it's us.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Us who has to just burst out in song even though we're remarkably bad at everything.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: The person who just always has to turn everything into a song.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: How obnoxious.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: How do you guys put up with us?
21:20
SPEAKER_00: An insightful moment right now.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, unfortunately, they're probably not gonna go over.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Just gonna pretend like that didn't hurt my soul a little bit.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Are we Korra?
21:33
SPEAKER_01: We might be Korra.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna make shirts that say, Am I the Korra?
21:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I'm Korra.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: It's me.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Um problem is me.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not a Korra moment you're having.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: I would pay money to actually hear what her music sounded like.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: It's true.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: I'd I wonder I wonder if there's like a what do you call it?
21:52
SPEAKER_00: A xylophone?
21:53
SPEAKER_00: No, a zona a zonograph, a gramophone.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
21:58
SPEAKER_01: There was something with an X that they came out with too.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Gramophone.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: I wonder if there's some old soundtrack someplace of hers trying to sing off up.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we'll find it.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: We'll dig deep, we'll deep dive, circle back later.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, so anyway, so so again, he's fired because he's spending too much time on her career.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, but at this point, too, because of her need for attention, she's kind of openly having affairs with other actors, with other people that are in her music company, and she wasn't really ashamed of hiding it because again, who she was, she was like, Oh, yeah, I know I'm a beautiful actress, I'm quite talented.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: Very confident.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: So who wouldn't want to be with me?
22:31
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't that cute.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, I wouldn't normally say that about someone, but there wasn't.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: We'll post pictures.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: And they had separate beds.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: They did.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, so they they were known to have separate bedrooms.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: So again, even their again relationship, as as much as he was trying to support her, I think they made it kind of very clear sexually, they weren't doing so hot, you know, they were kind of leading separate lives.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, so at this point, he starts to work, Dr.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Kirpin starts to work at the Druids Institution for the Deaf.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: So he actually goes there.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: This is around eight or 1900, and he hires a young typist named Ethel Leneve.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: And so him and Leneve kind of get on as good friends.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I'm sure he's complaining to her a little bit about his wife, her excessive need for attention, her affairs.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: She always was she was known to have a very lavish lifestyle, so he's probably complaining about, man, you know, I'm making a meager income, and all she does is spend our money on clothes and jewels and all these things that we really can't afford.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, so Ethel was there to really just be his friend and like sounding bored for a while.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: One thing I will say though is Cora is known to be kind of like bouncing around through different gentlemen.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: While I I think that says a lot about his relationship that starts to formulate between Dr.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Crippen and Ethel.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: As Elizabeth said, she was hired on in 1900.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't until 1905 that they started an affair between Ethel and Dr.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Crippen.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: So it took at least five years of friendship, and I think it took him over the edge to see kind of how his wife's been humiliating him that he's like, you know what, if you're gonna go have fun, I'm I'm gonna be with the person I actually want to be with.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: He very much wanted to divorce Cora.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: But just because of the times and it wasn't that easy to get a divorce.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: It was easier to just have his affair on the side.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: And we should note too that at the exact same time, 1905, Cora and Krippen are actually uh they just moved to a new house on at 39 Hill Drop Crescent on Camden Road, which was in Holloway, London.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is a new house that they're, you know, they're living in, again, both with separate bedrooms.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and because they couldn't necessarily afford their their rent, uh, they actually took on lodgers.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: So people came and stayed, you know, paid, paid for them to stay the night.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: And Cora was literally found in bed with one of the lodgers one night.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Again, 1905.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: And so he was like, Scandalous.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Had enough.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, I've already known about your open affairs.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Now that I see it in front of my face, like again, that's when him his relationship with Ethel really strikes up.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, you know what, we're doing this now.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: And she had to have known about his affair with Ethel, I'm assuming.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I don't think she cared.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: I think they were that distant.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: But he absolutely wanted to leave her and marry Ethel.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: So takes us to January 31st, 1910.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: There was a party at their house.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Not like a big Ranger, it sounds like, but it was they just hosted one other couple.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: I I I wrote down a party.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: I guess more like a dinner party.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Dinner party, yeah.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Although they were having fun because they were up until at least 1:30 in the morning.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Hey.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, having fun.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna jump to what we know.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Although there was a really interesting rendition that took their own take on what happened that night, but that's not facts, so I'll just stick with the facts of what we know.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: We know that after January 31st, 1910, Cora disappears.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Crippin tells everybody, well, she went off with some other guy named Bruce Miller to back to America.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: And then he says she actually died in America and she's cremated somewhere.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, nope, nobody, no nothing.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Which it's very odd, and especially since he's not acting sad or anything, people were very suspicious.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, that seems weird.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: She just disappears in the middle of the night.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: And again, those those are the facts.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: We did have a few accounts that said that a note was written to her, like, um, I guess, friends in the music hall that were basic basically was like, Hey, like, I have an ill family member in America, so I'm gonna go run off to take care of that.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: So sorry, I can't be your acting treasurer or whatever she was, whatever leadership position she held.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: She's like, I resign and I have to go.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: And everyone's like, This isn't Korra.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Again, Kora's weird.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Korra's such a huge personality.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: She would make a big thing of leaving.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: She would probably throw a party, like farewell party for herself to leave.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: So everyone knew this was a little bit off.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: Even if that's not quite true, I'm sure her friends were very suspicious because that's not how someone like Korra would just exit.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: And even if he were to write a letter, I'm theorizing right now.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine his handwriting looking like her.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: So I wonder if he had Ethel.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Had someone write in a female handwriting.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: That could be, I don't know.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm theorizing again right now.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: But what we do know is he told everybody that she went to the US and she died.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Almost instantly, Ethel moves in.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Not only does she move in, everyone notices that she's wearing Korra's clothes, her jewelry, kind of flaunting it about of this new lifestyle that she now has with Dr.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: Krippen.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: They're obviously not married yet, but they're pretty much acting like they are.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: And if you're Korra's friend and you see this new mistress come come around with her furs and her jewelry and all of that on, you're like, well, if Korra's still alive, why wouldn't she go to the US with her jewelry?
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, why'd she leave all of her clothes in London?
28:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, that makes no sense.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: None of it lines up.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: One friend was extremely suspicious.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: I love her.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Her name is Kate Williams.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: AKA.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: AKA Vulcana.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Vulcana.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: Vulcana.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, there is uh I wow, I can't read my handwriting.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was V-U-K-A.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: No, it's V-U-L-C.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: A-N-A.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Vulcana.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Vulcana.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Vulcana was an interesting woman.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Vulcana was her stage name.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Her name was Kate Williams.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Vulcana was interesting.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: She was a strong woman.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Think of the very stereotypical circus type.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Like the strong woman.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: Like a freak show type.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, freak show spectacle.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she was strong.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: There are, again, there's pictures of her that you can easily look up online.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: And some pictures I'm like, eh, okay.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And others I'm like, oh yeah, she's got like.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: She just has big biceps.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can tell she works out.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: She's probably the only woman that worked out at that time.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Like lifted weights.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: I think that's why it was interesting.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, I'm like, yeah, she's a strong woman.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: She clearly goes to the gym every day.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: But in 1910, that was unheard of for a feminine woman to be so strong and have giant biceps.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: So um Vulcan is very concerned for her friend Cora, who they again they know and from the from the entertainment industry.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: She she complains that her friend is missing and she wants more to happen, but nothing really does.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: I think part of it is because people didn't take her seriously because she was a stage show performer.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't until Frank Forrest, whose wife was also a performer, Lil Hawthorne, but Lil started also complaining and got the attention of Frank Forrest, who then went to the um the Scotland Yard, which we'll talk about a little bit what the Scotland Yard is for us Americans who aren't aware of it.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Um but he finally was able to spur up an investigation on what happened to Cora.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about Scotland Yard.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Is that alright?
29:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's interject with some some Scotland Yard facts.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize Scotland Yard is basically the metropolitan police in the Greater London area.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: And the reason it's called Scotland Yard is because that is the district or the street that it was originally located.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: But I did write a really interesting thing.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: This isn't confirmed, but they thought perhaps it was even called Scotland Yard as far as the street goes, is because those buildings were used to like house the diplomats of Scottish kings and Scottish politicians way back in King Henry VIII's day.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: And then in 1515, when Margaret Tudor, who is King Henry the Eighth's sister, had to flee Scotland after marrying the Scottish King.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: It's a whole situation.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: But supposedly she stayed in the house on Scotland Yard, so then they called it the Scotland Yard, which is basically the police force.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: And that's very cool.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: I've always known it was, you know, synonymous with the police, essentially.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: Like I was telling Megan it was funny, the first time I ever heard the Scotland Yard was like in 101 Dalmatians, they refer to it.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: So I was a kid, I was like, I don't know what they're saying.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what are they talking about.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: What did they say?
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was um it was we've called Scotland Yard.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: What more do you want?
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh I never picked up on that.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: As a kid, I was always like, I don't know what she said just there.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it took me maybe until I was like 10, 11, to be like, oh, I think Scotland Yard they're referring to the police, because obviously, you know, we're American.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: I called the police.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: It's the police, the cops.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: And if we're getting this wrong, maybe there's more obvious history about the name that I'm just not aware of.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: But I first heard of it too when we went to London and I was also very confused.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, so but I didn't know the whole background of why it was called Scotland Yard.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's fascinating.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully that is true.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: And again, listeners who are from the UK, please correct us because obviously culturally we don't know that.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: So if there's something different or a different story, please tell us that story though.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: We'll keep that one for now.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: So I'm about to hand it over to Elizabeth, but yeah, what I will end with saying is the investigation starts.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, Walter Dew is the chief, what is he, chief operator, chief inspector.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: He's leading this investigation.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: And what Crippin tells him is you know what, you're right, I lied.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: She's not dead.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: She actually left me with this guy, Bruce Miller.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: They went to go make their own life in America.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: I was so humiliated.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to publicize that.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: So I just told everyone that this elaborate story, and she ended up dying, and I don't know, it just kind of got away from me.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: But all in all, she left me.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And he believed that it was a very believable story because again, he's like this meek, sad, vulnerable man.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: He's kind of weak looking.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Like he's like, Oh, poor butles.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: And he just took it, he's like, All right, that that makes sense.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: So here's where Crippen goes wrong.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, if he didn't do this, he probably would have been just fine.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: Because we think Walter Dew um kind of bought that lie.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: But as soon as Dew leaves, he Crippen gets together with Ethel, and he's like, Oh my gosh, they're on to us.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, we're gonna be arrested any day.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: We gotta leave, we gotta get out of town.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: So immediately Crippen and Ethel flee.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: They go off to Belgium and they immediately book a ship to Canada because they're out of here.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Inconspicuous.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: And so, again, like we said, Dew was pretty much buying the story that Crippen was putting down, but it wasn't until he's like, Oh, now they suspiciously left town.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: Maybe there is something here.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: So Scotland Yard goes back to the house because they're very suspicious at this point, and they start searching the house over and over and over again.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Because there was one initial search when he talked to uh Crippen the first time, but again, now that Crippen's gone, he's like, Well, clearly you're guilty of something here, so we gotta we gotta investigate.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: So sorry, I was just saying one thing that I did read was they thought that Crippen and Ethel didn't actually even know that he was satisfied with the answer.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: Like they just assumed more was coming.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: They had no idea that it could have just like ended there.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: But bygones be bygones.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, so sure enough, once Scotland Yard's there and they're inspecting the house, they find basically this like, I guess, cellar.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, and in the basement there's like this this covered up area on the floor where there's just loose brick, and they noticed the brick had just kind of been freshly put there.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: So, like, oh, what's this?
34:18
SPEAKER_01: So they dig up this little floor and they find a torso.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: They find a torso with no head, no arms, no legs, and no skeleton.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Which is very interesting.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: And I'm still trying to wrap my head around what exactly it was they found.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, was it just like muscle skin?
34:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, if there's no skeleton, how was the skeleton removed?
34:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, how was it still intact?
34:42
SPEAKER_01: Was it just parts of a torso?
34:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't exactly understand what they found because everything we read just says the same thing that it was just a torso.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Again, no limbs, no head.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: Hard time visualizing that.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: Was there blood?
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Was there And if you took so much time and effort to removing the head and removing the limbs and taking out the skeleton, why wouldn't you just also remove the torso?
35:01
SPEAKER_01: Like get rid of that too.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: They had no traces of the other body parts.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: We were talking pretty thoroughly about this because if someone like like you said, yeah, just finished the job at that point.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: But also, what happened to the rest of the body?
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was never found, it was just this torso.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: So weird.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: But they also on the torso found traces of, and I'm sorry if I say this wrong, but scopaline, scopamine.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that was like scopalpamine.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: Scopalpamine.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Scopalpamine?
35:33
SPEAKER_01: We're saying it wrong.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: A poison.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a poison of sorts.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: So they found traces of this on the body.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: So, like, okay, clearly, whatever this scene is, someone was poisoned and someone was murdered.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: Um so they immediately think, okay, this is Cora, because Cora's missing and Crippen left.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: So in the meantime, you have Dr.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: Crippen and Ethel on their way to Canada via this ship called the Montrose.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they had uh Ethel dressed up like a little boy.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: Basically, they're trying to pass the story off of like, um, oh, it's just, you know, this other gentleman, I forget what they called him, Mr.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: Robertson or something.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: No, they said that it was his son.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: So they still said it was Crippen.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they said it was oh yeah, they said it was Crippin and Crippen's 16-year-old son Otto.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Otto?
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Who Otto is out of the picture.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Otto's been gone for He was living in California.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: But they they put their names down as um Mr.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: and Master Robertson.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: Mr.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: Robinson.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they still did use a fake name.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: I didn't write that down.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, they used a fake name, but he said it was his son, but it's her.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Clearly, yeah.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: And immediately people grow suspicious, and of course they didn't book the third class like you probably should.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Being third class, you're kind of out of the way, nobody really sees you.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: But they booked a second class ticket, meaning the captain kind of wants to go around and speak to them and know who they are as passengers.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: So this captain, George Kendall, starts to grow very suspicious because he's like, clearly, this boy's a woman.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: He's like, and he maybe you have the exact quote, but yeah, but he sees them and he's like, in no way is this a kid, a 16-year-old boy.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: But he he makes a telegraph with which was very new technology at this point in time.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: The telegraph had been around in terms of like a wired telegraph, but he's on a ship.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: So this is wireless technology, kind of like the first wireless technology we've ever had with the telegraph.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: So he he telegraphs British authorities and he basically says, I have a strong suspicion that Crippen, London, cellar murderer, is what they were calling him at the time, and accomplice are among saloon passengers.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: Moustache take taken off, growing beard, accomplice dressed as boy, manner and build, undoubtedly a girl.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: So he's basically saying, I'm pretty sure this is Crippen.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a girl with him.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Something's something's not quite right here.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: And this was a pretty well-known story because now that they're on the run from Brussels to Canada, assumingly on their way to the United States, but they started in London, it's now a transatlantic story.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: It's all over the headlines.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's like, oh, murderer on the run, murderer and mistress.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: So everyone's talking about it, and their disguises don't seem to be helping them.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: So great.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: And again, I think it was a lot of the kind of glamorization because it's a doctor and it's a it's a singer that he's married to.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: The singer is now dead, and there's a mistress involved.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: So it's a lot of like, you know, sex blood intrigue kind of going on.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: People were really fascinated with the story and following it very carefully.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so we'll show we'll post a picture of what exactly they looked like when they were finally caught.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: And so grateful there's photographs for.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: Again, so happy there's pictures.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: But but Drew, going back to Walter Drew, the chief.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, excuse me, Drew, the chief inspector, he boards actually another ship from Liverpool because this ship is supposed to get to Canada faster than the Montrose ship.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: So he gets into Canada two days before Crippen, and he's like, Alright, I got my guy, got the wireless signal, I'm gonna arrest him as soon as he touches down in Canada.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: As soon as they get to Canada, and again, we'll post the picture, but this picture of Ethel is classic because she's literally wearing this huge overcoat that goes like up to her ears, and she's got this big hat that's just down past her eyes.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: And I was telling Megan, I was like, oh my gosh, Megan, if you've seen the movie Space Jam, it looks like when the monster aliens get like like disguise themselves in this little coat, which I'll also post a picture of because it's so funny how similar the two look.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: But she's clearly trying to be disguised here.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, so so they're caught.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Do finds them.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: But the first thing that Crippen says to do is he says, Thank God it's over.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: The suspense has been too great.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't stand it any longer.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: So I think he's finally, and this is uh July 31st, 1910, Crippen I think is finally just so relieved because it's probably just been this monkey on his back.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, any day they're gonna catch me, any day I'm going to prison, any day I might be executed.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, God wouldn't when will this stop?
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Kind of thing.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: And that's a pretty long time because if the murder supposedly happened January 31st, and this is now what July 31st that they got arrested.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: And when um so what I read too was do when he got on on board, he also disguised himself as a pilot to try to trick them in how to and how to meet them.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: And he put on this whole facade of like, oh, you've been selected to meet a group of pilots who are also on the cruiser, and then that's when he like okay reveals himself, like, nice to meet you, Dr.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Crippen, and takes off his disguise.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: So the jig is up, boys.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Very clever and and Dr.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: Crippen, all he does is hold out his hands too, ready to put the handcuffs on.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: So he's very willingly like, all right, I got caught.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Which is interesting too, because there was also some back and forth.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: Like he he always, always maintained his innocence, but to give in that easily, he didn't act surprised or shocked or he's like, You found me.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: All right.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: So the trial starts October 18th.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: Crippen's taken back to the UK, by the way.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't stay in Canada.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's actually a good point to make because what's funny is at this time Canada is under British rule, as a lot of things were at some point or another.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: Had Crippen have made it to the United States, he would have been off British territory and do wouldn't have been able to arrest him like he did.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: So he just like didn't make it, you know.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: So he was legally able to get arrested on Canadian land and go back to the UK.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: So he was tried in Old Bailey on October 18th, 1910.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: And him and Ethel were tried separately.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: They also intentionally wanted his trial to be before Ethel, see what the outcome was, and then try Ethel.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: And it lasted for four days.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: The reason why I think this whole murder story is so famous.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Like I was asking Elizabeth, like, there's been so many British murders and so many husbands who killed their wives.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, why do so many people know about this one?
42:12
SPEAKER_00: And you made a really good point about this is on the brink of technology.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: The fact that it was the wireless telegraph that that caught him.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: And then they're they're using science and pathologists to actually put together a trial and put together evidence.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Which is something when before it was like going into it, like we know you're guilty.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: But they really, they really did try to pull the pieces apart here.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: It was a hard-fought case.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: It was.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: And it started off with the lawyers.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, sorry, it started off with the pathologist talking about this torso.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: They did admit that they couldn't decipher if it was a male or a female torso.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: However, they found some scar tissue on the torso that matched the a scar in the medical reports of Korra.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: It was like an abdominal scar.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: They were all about this scar.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: The all also the poison that we had mentioned mentioned, the scopal scope, scopalamine.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: This is really funny.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: The way that they were able to detect it to know what kind of poison it was is they put a cat up to uh next to it.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: And if the cat's eyes dilate, that means there's the poison.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: And it dilates.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: But that was this just to like describe the evidence that they're they're they're putting together.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: Um and he did have a lawyer.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: His lawyer worked pretty hard to try to say, like, hey, this scar tissue, there there shouldn't be hair follicles on it.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: Or something about the hair follicles.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: He he's trying to counteract with the with the science.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: Really, really quick when I told Megan that part, I was like, I was like, yeah, you know, there was inconsistencies with the scar tissue.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: They finally said there shouldn't be hair follicles on it.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: And she goes, Didn't you say she was Polish Russian?
43:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm a Russian Jew, trust me.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: If it was a torso, there's gonna be hair follicles on it.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: Everywhere.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Everywhere.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: Hair everywhere.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Hair in, hair out.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: So I get it.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: Um the lawyer's whole argument was that no, yeah, there's a body here.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: That's not our body.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: This body was obviously here before 1905 when the Crippins moved in.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: This is like so good.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: This is when it gets on a like a juicy detective court case.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: They the the torso was wrapped in a pajama top.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: They go, they find the label on the pajama top.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: They go to the manufacturer who made this brand of pajamas at that time.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: And this company said, we didn't sell this make or model, whatever the style killed pajama top, right, um, since 1908.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: So there's no way that this body was buried in this pajama top prior to 1905.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's where a lot of it fell down to, and that's when they're like, guilty.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're probably like shoot.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: Because Amber Heard was saying how Johnny Depp, you know, was battering her and she had to hide it, hide the bruises in her face with makeup.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: And they asked, Well, what kind of makeup did she use?
45:17
SPEAKER_00: And I forget the brand, something really well known.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: And they went to that, the makeup company spoke up first and they said, We were not making that brand or that line of that particular line of makeup until 20, you know, whatever, 2017 or whatever, which was after the allegations were happening.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: So smart.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: It is so smart.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, that's what you should do when you're putting these things together in a trial.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: Just ask a million questions because you never know which ones you're gonna find a little snag on to be like, oh, really?
45:45
SPEAKER_01: Like legally block.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: Your Versace shoes, the bleach and the the what do you call it, the perm and the how long you could be like all of it.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: It all matters.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: It all matters.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever gotten a perm before?
45:58
SPEAKER_00: How many would you say?
45:59
SPEAKER_00: Altogether, they it only took them 27 minutes to decipher that he was guilty.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Um luckily Ethel got off completely.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Like she they at first she was being tried as an accessory, but she did get acquitted and innocent and lived the rest of her days.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, lived till she was like in her 80s.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: Went back to the United States.
46:20
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, she went, well, US, Canada, back to London, but again, eventually married, had a couple kids.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: Died a peaceful old woman.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I thought this was interesting.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: It was a young Winston Churchill.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: He was, what was his role?
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Secretary of the state.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: Secretary of State, which I don't I don't know what they call it in the UK.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh something Secretary.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: House Secretary.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: House Secretary, sounds right.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: He was super young at the time.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: So obviously before he was prime minister, but they were trying to appeal his case, and it was Winston Churchill who's like, no, you're gonna hang for this.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: But he did allow Ethel to see him not only exchange letters, but also see Crippen like on the eve of his execution.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh what would you say?
47:05
SPEAKER_01: To to Dr.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: Crippen?
47:07
SPEAKER_00: If it was like your lover and he's gonna die the next day.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: See.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, two parts of me.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, one would be like, Did you actually do it?
47:15
SPEAKER_01: But the other part of me assumes that I already know, and I'd be like, damn, if we only caught that faster ship.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: There was a really funny clip from Drunk History, and it was uh Olivia Coleman playing Ethel.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: It was just the short little clip we saw, but he's like, eh, he's like, Oh, look at all these jewels and clothes.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, jewels and clothes, oh, weren't they your wives?
47:35
SPEAKER_00: What happened to her?
47:36
SPEAKER_00: He's like, never you mind.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: He's like, shh, shh, shh, shush, don't ask, don't ask questions.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: And he just like closes her lips.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: But uh so do you think she was an accomplice?
47:45
SPEAKER_01: Yes, because this actually came out, I think, in 1930.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: So, what, 20 years later?
47:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, she was asked by somebody casually, like in Australia when she was, I don't know, either vacationing there or there for a while, but someone asked her, like, hey, did you know that he murdered her?
48:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, did he ever tell you anything?
48:02
SPEAKER_01: And her admission was, yes, I knew, but he killed her because she had syphilis.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: So who knows if that was like his lie and his justification he gave to her.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: Either way, I think I think she knew that the murder had taken place.
48:16
SPEAKER_01: Maybe he spun it in a way that wasn't as vicious and cold-blooded, but I think she knew.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: And again, obviously they're fleeing.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: She's dressed up, she's disguised, maybe it's very exciting for her.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: I think she knew.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: Um and how was he actually killed, Megan?
48:34
SPEAKER_01: He was hanged.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: He was hanged.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: Because it was 1910.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, at what is it called?
48:39
SPEAKER_01: Tom Ellis at Pentonville Prison in London.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: And it was 9 a.m.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: November 3rd, 1910.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: His executioner was John Ellis, who was a British executioner who Oh, does that say John Ellis?
48:51
SPEAKER_01: I put I said Tom Ellis.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: I can't read my own handwriting.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: That's the executioner.
48:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: He was an executioner for 23 years, started in 1907, so he's still fairly new by the time he hanged Crippin.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, he had a total of 203 executions.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: And maybe this is I was reading a little bit about him, maybe this is like a future execution-e that we can talk about.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: But there was some controversy with him with this woman that he had to hang and ended up like being the one where he's like, I'm out, boys, I can't do this anymore.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: It was like final execution.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Did he actually execute her or did he walk away before uh he did, but it was very botched and there was just like a weird, a lot of weird circumstances around it.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: Probably because of the length of the rope.
49:35
SPEAKER_00: They said that she gained weight, but then they thought maybe she was pregnant because she wasn't eating.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to get into it just in case it's uh it's an episode, but it I I went down a rabbit hole reading about him.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: Um his last request was if he could be buried with Ethel's pictures.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: Did that happen?
49:55
SPEAKER_01: I think they honored it.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: I think they did.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: It was at least one photograph of her.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: I think his request was her photos and letters, but at least one photograph made it on his coffin.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: And he was buried in an unmarked grave, but to this day there's a rosebush over it where family still they still go and they are still petitioning for him.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: They still want his body to be exhumed and taken back to the United States.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: So this is where it gets interesting.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: Not that any of every any everything previously not interesting.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: This is interesting.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: This is interesting.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: Listen up now.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: They're still in this battle of is he innocent or not.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of evidence and recent findings between 2007 and 2011.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that that was not Korra's body.
50:40
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: And even in the book I read, oh, by the way, it's called Thunderstruck.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I mentioned that.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: But Thunderstruck, the book by Eric Larson, was written in I think 2006.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: So even his novel, I don't want to call it a novel, his book, um, didn't have kind of the latest findings that we've had now up to 2022.
50:57
SPEAKER_01: But they found a few things.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: They think, one, that it was a male torso.
51:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how they can find that out.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Something about there's more Y chromosome on the DNA or something, so they can tell that it's a male.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: And then two, they actually match the DNA to Korra's relatives.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: And they said there's basically no way this could match up.
51:17
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, you're like, well, if it wasn't Cora, like, who was it?
51:21
SPEAKER_01: Who was it?
51:21
SPEAKER_00: Because of the pajama top.
51:23
SPEAKER_00: He was clearly killed by someone in the house.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: Because that's kind of what it fell down to.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: And then another thing too is like knowing Korra, me and my best bud Korra.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, knowing Korra, she's just such a big presence and a big personality.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: A woman like that wouldn't just disappear into nowhere and not be known.
51:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, even if she went back to America and was with this Bruce Miller guy or wherever she was in the world.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: Hang out hang low in the shadows.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: No, she would probably get a new stage name and be out there, but she's very distinct looking.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure someone would be like, oh, that's Cora, that girl who we thought was murdered.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: Especially since she's all over the newspaper at the time.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: So there's just no chance in my mind that she she lived out her days somewhere in hiding.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: I doubt it.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: They did bring up the whole thing with the hair follicles again.
52:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't quite understand it, but they believed the lawyer's case of there shouldn't have been hair follicles.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: On the scar tissue.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: Something.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: I guess that's right.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: You don't have hair on scar tissue.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: I suppose not.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: Or do you shouldn't.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: Just get more aggressive hair on that.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: Unless you're a Russian Jew like me.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: Unless you're carrows out of anywhere.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Polish Russian German.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: Um so it's still up for debate.
52:43
SPEAKER_00: And the family is still petitioning to like the scar tissue, for example.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: It's in the what was it, the crime museum something in London.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: And they refuse to test it.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: They refuse to test it because the Scotland Yard doesn't want to admit that they may have executed an innocent person.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: Which, like, I'm sorry, you're British.
53:06
SPEAKER_01: How many innocent people have you executed?
53:09
SPEAKER_00: Aren't you used to it by now?
53:10
SPEAKER_00: Right.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: There was still a dead body there.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: Was it his doing, we don't know.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean it was his house and his pajama top.
53:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and also, sorry, back back to the I forgot something.
53:22
SPEAKER_00: Back to the pajama top.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: They couldn't, so it's like a matching set of, you know, cutie pajamas.
53:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: They um found the bottoms.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: But not the top.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: But they couldn't find the top.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: Because that was the top wrapped in the body.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: So he wasn't, I don't think he was completely innocent.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: But also, are you that stupid to bury it in your own house wrapped in your own pajama top as well?
53:41
SPEAKER_01: Like that's kind of crazy.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: I also don't think that they knew the extent of the of like where investigations were going.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: Because it was so easy to get away with stuff.
53:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, look at Lizzie Borden.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: I know.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: But we talked about this already, but it's just like, but why would you dispose of the limbs and the head?
53:57
SPEAKER_00: And the skeleton, I just where's the head?
54:00
SPEAKER_00: And how did you take the skeleton out?
54:02
SPEAKER_01: Ah.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: There's so many holes, like, you know, for and against crippling.
54:06
SPEAKER_01: It's like there's just too many holes and too many questions unanswered.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: And maybe, again, as the years go by, there will be more evidence.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you'll eventually we'll be able to test that piece of scar tissue that's locked away that no one can get.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Scar tissue that you wish you saw.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: Mm-mm.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: Saw spoken with a broken jaw.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, so many opportunities.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, so I still think I'm a creep.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's so uh creep.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: That's how it goes.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, TLC.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: Should I like give you a little taste?
54:36
SPEAKER_01: No.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, that was a good one.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: It was.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: It was.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: I always love a good I like Larson adaptation.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: I do.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's a nice breakup between like I could talk about the tutors all day long, but it's nice to have the breakups of different genres and locations and people.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: One day, maybe we'll do a giant timeline check like we used to do.
54:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we used to do timeline checks.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: We could bring it back.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: Not right now.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: I always find that fun.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: Right now, not right now.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth, any final words?
55:06
SPEAKER_01: In the words of Dr.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: Crippin, thank God it's over.