Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 14 January

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The Bolt Report | 14 January · The Bolt Report

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It's the Bolt Report. Welcome to the Reports. Steve Price
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: in again with you this week. Andrew Bott'll be back
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: on Monday, just in time for the recall of Federal
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Parliament and its impossible tasket now looks like to pass
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: that complex hate speech legislation. On that coming up Liberal
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Senator Dave Shama who held the seat of Wentworth that
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: takes in Bondai until twenty twenty two, or get his
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: views on the Albanezi government's bill and his reflections one
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: month on from that terrorist attack. Also the harrowing images
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and facts being leaked out of Iran and what action
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: if any, President Trump might take. Will talk to Kosher
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Garda about that, Plus the fresh debate around gun laws.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Do we really need to toughen them up or is
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: that simply the government trying to wedge the opposition. If so,
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  Speaker 1: that is a disgraceful decision. But first, as Anthony Albanese
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  Speaker 1: really expecting us to believe that he can get in
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  Speaker 1: two days of parliamentary sittings in Canberra next week, complex
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  Speaker 1: and wide ranging freedom of speech and hate laws plus
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: gun control tightening all through the parliament in two days,
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  Speaker 1: He's kidding. Look, he's many things the Prime Minister. What
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  Speaker 1: he is not is stupid. He is a calculating, agenda
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  Speaker 1: driven control freak who must deep down know these new
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: laws that have emerged out of over eighteen months of
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: inaction in the face of the rise of anti Semitism
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: and almost a month of twisting and turning every which
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: way to avoid a Royal Commission into BONDI simply won't fly.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Inserting tougher gun control laws complicates what was already going
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  Speaker 1: to be a difficult bill to sell to a Parliament
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  Speaker 1: that hosts everyone from Pauline Hansen to Maurine Feruki and
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: even our guest from last night, Senator Alex Antik here
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: in case you missed it, it is his take not
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: on guns, but on the dangers that he sees in
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  Speaker 1: the hate law changes that lie at the heart of
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  Speaker 1: this bill.
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  Speaker 2: But I'm concerned about the slippery slope on this and
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  Speaker 2: what are the next groups. I mean, obviously we all
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  Speaker 2: have a problem with the hate crime that the hate
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: preaching and whatever else. But once the door is open
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  Speaker 2: to this, this becomes a very difficult precedent for freedoms
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  Speaker 2: in this country and free speech. I just don't support
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: any of it, and I hope that that is the
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  Speaker 2: position adopted by the coalition.
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  Speaker 1: Then you have the new One Nation recruit Barnaby Joyce
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  Speaker 1: making it clear that the gun laws part of that
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  Speaker 1: bill will see him and presumably every other One Nation
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  Speaker 1: MP voting against it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: I have concerns that we have brought into that things
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: that are incredibly have great issue in the country, such
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: as firearms legislations. For us, we live here, not in
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  Speaker 4: bond Eye. We're law abiding farmers, we haven't done anything wrong,
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: and I don't think they'll tolerate us if we started
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  Speaker 4: voting for greater regulations on how people live out here.
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  Speaker 4: And I think it's very mischievous to put that into
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  Speaker 4: the same piece of legislation where there obviously will be
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: a wealth of things we want to support.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you can see where this is going. Even the
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  Speaker 1: New South Wales Premier chrispins who, by the way, I
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  Speaker 1: believe has been outstanding through this whole saga, who has
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: already vowed to titan gun laws in New South Wales
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  Speaker 1: and runs a state where Bondi happen, is not sure
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  Speaker 1: where this bill is actually going.
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  Speaker 3: It's a complicated piece of constitutional law that will probably
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: be challenged. But what I would say is that if
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  Speaker 3: even in the context of it being applied from a
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  Speaker 3: religious text, if it's then used to vilify, harass or
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: encourage violence, then there can't be an excuse. And I
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  Speaker 3: think the core it's got to be in a position
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  Speaker 3: and should be in a position to draw that distinction,
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  Speaker 3: and legislation, whether it's New South Lales or colon Off,
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: legislation has to have big, bright redlines there. If it's
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  Speaker 3: being used to attack Australians with the justification of it
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  Speaker 3: being one thousand years old or two thousand years old,
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: or fifteen one hundred years old or three thousand years old,
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  Speaker 3: then we can't.
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  Speaker 1: Tolerate it when you're like someone like him to be
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Prime minister. So it makes you wonder, doesn't it. If
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  Speaker 1: this is designed to take the heat straight off the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Prime Minister and his lack of leadership post the Bondie attack,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: labor polling must be exploding with feedback from disillusion to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Australians wondering what sort of leader Anthony Albanez he is?
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  Speaker 1: Is he weak? Is he out of his depth? Has
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the Bondai reception he got rocked? His confidence dented, his
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: ego or all of the above. National Senator Bridget mackenzie
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: on Sky today certainly didn't.
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: Miss governments of both sides. When we've had legislation of
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: national significance such as this response should be, we've allowed
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: it to go through parliamentary processes, subject to scrutiny of
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  Speaker 5: the full Parliament and the public, before putting it to
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  Speaker 5: a vote, so that we can get the responses right
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: as possible. The Prime Minister's failed to do that in
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  Speaker 5: this case. There are a lot of concerns about the
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: legislation as it stands, particularly the Prime Minister's decision to
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  Speaker 5: put migration law changes, gun law changes, free speech changes
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: into the same bill.
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  Speaker 6: I think that's giving people a lot of cause for concern.
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  Speaker 1: Look, if the Prime Minister really believes what he's tossing
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: up on Monday is needed quickly and desperately, why has
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: it taken so long? As we mourn today exactly today,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: a month on from the alleged murders of fifteen people,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: what changed beyond the fact that Anthony Albanezi had to
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: do something, anything to change the narrative It could end
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I believe blowing up in his face. Leberal Cenator Dave
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Shalma was, of course the local member for Wentworth that
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  Speaker 1: takes in Bondi Beach. Senator, thanks very much for joining us,
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  Speaker 1: and I'll get to that bill in a moment. And
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: we do have some breaking news. I'd like to get
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: your opinion on New South Wales police set to respond.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: This will happen tomorrow officially to a plan protest. Here
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: we go again at Sydney's town Hall on Friday evening.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: The group will be protesting Chrismin's anti protest laws and
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Israel President Isaac Hertzog's visit to Australia. Now, if that
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: protest goes ahead, this will be staged during the current
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: two week ban on such events, which doesn't expire until
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  Speaker 1: next Tuesday. You're a former ambassador to Israel, you know, Hurtzog.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: What's your view on this protest going ahead?
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  Speaker 7: Well, I think it's extremely of advice and very incessive
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  Speaker 7: and I hope New South Wales Police and New South
• 7:02
  Speaker 7: Wales authorities do not allow it to go ahead. I mean,
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  Speaker 7: I just ask you, step, where's the protest about people's
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  Speaker 7: human rights in Iran? I mean there's reports of anywhere
• 7:10
  Speaker 7: between twenty twelve thousand protesters having been murdered killed by
• 7:15
  Speaker 7: the security forces in Iran. But I haven't seen those
• 7:18
  Speaker 7: people come out and protest the rights and freedoms of
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  Speaker 7: those people. Instead, they're continuing with the demonization of Israel
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  Speaker 7: and by extension, their intimidation of the Jewish community and me.
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  Speaker 7: One month after the worst terrort incident on Australian soil
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  Speaker 7: in our history. I just think these people they have
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  Speaker 7: no regard for their fellow Australians and they are single
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  Speaker 7: minded in their purpose, which is to make the Jewish
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  Speaker 7: community feel and welcome in their own country.
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  Speaker 1: It seems to me that the police now have, certainly
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: until next Tuesday, that wherewithal to prevent this protest going ahead.
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  Speaker 1: They've been reluctant to do that in the past. We
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  Speaker 1: saw the march across the Sydney Harbor Bridge, we saw
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the disgrace on October eight on the Sydney Sydney Opera
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  Speaker 1: House steps. But they have the legal right to arrest
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  Speaker 1: people who turn out to this protest. That's my reading
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  Speaker 1: of it.
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  Speaker 7: Do you agree that's my understanding as well. Stave. As
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  Speaker 7: a result of the measures that were put in place
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  Speaker 7: by the New South Wales government following the Bondai terrorist massacre.
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  Speaker 7: And I think those powers are there they should use them.
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  Speaker 7: I mean, I think everyone would say in retrospect that
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  Speaker 7: the ongoing weekly, sometimes more often protests that have a
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  Speaker 7: company is in the past two years have had horribly
• 8:39
  Speaker 7: unintended consequences. They have raised the temperature considerably. They haven't
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  Speaker 7: They haven't done anything to address the problems they purport
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  Speaker 7: to address, whether it's the war in Gaza, whether it's
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  Speaker 7: a must disarming, whether it's Israel's contact of that war.
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  Speaker 7: All they've succeeded in doing is raising the temperature and
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  Speaker 7: basically giving license to more extremist elements. We've said chance
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  Speaker 7: used in those protests which should fall fail of the law.
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  Speaker 7: We've seen the symbols of listed terrorist organizations waved Aloft.
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  Speaker 7: I think the entire effect of those protests has been
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  Speaker 7: nothing other than damaging to Australia, and the idea that
• 9:14
  Speaker 7: they should be allowed to continue I think is preposterous.
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  Speaker 1: We'll see what the police have to say today. As
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  Speaker 1: you pointed out, Senator, today is exactly a month on
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: from that dreadful terrorist attack. How do you feel, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you're an important part of that community. How do they
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: feel the community is now coping?
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  Speaker 7: Look, I spent a few hours this afternoon with Rabbi
• 9:37
  Speaker 7: Allmon and it was his one of his sons in law,
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  Speaker 7: Elo Schlangen, who was a rabbi who was killed on
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  Speaker 7: the fourteenth of December, but also many members of his
• 9:47
  Speaker 7: community is synagogue, and I can tell you that unsurprisingly,
• 9:52
  Speaker 7: that community is still deep in grief and deep in shock.
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  Speaker 7: I mean I saw, I went and visited Elo Schlanger's
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  Speaker 7: office in a synagogue. Are moving his books.
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  Speaker 1: Around?
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  Speaker 7: His office has been kept for now as a remembrance
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  Speaker 7: of him. And that community is struggling to recover and rebuild.
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  Speaker 7: And you know, there's still wounded people in hospital, There's
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  Speaker 7: still people dealing with their injuries, and of course for
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  Speaker 7: those who've lost loved ones, that there's still an enormous
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  Speaker 7: sense of grief or loss that I think will take
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  Speaker 7: a very long time to heal.
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  Speaker 1: If ever, are they getting the care, the mental health
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  Speaker 1: care that they need if required?
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  Speaker 7: Look, I believe the community is pulling together and looking
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  Speaker 7: after their most vulnerable and the most needing. And I
• 10:37
  Speaker 7: asked the rabbi today, is there anything more that I
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  Speaker 7: can do personally that others can do. Any assistance from
• 10:45
  Speaker 7: the government or mental health and counseling services. You know,
• 10:49
  Speaker 7: he's in regular touch with me about these issues. But
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: I think it's important that we provide all the support necessary.
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  Speaker 7: But I think even with all that, you know, a
• 10:59
  Speaker 7: loss of this the normal in shock and magnitude and
• 11:01
  Speaker 7: the manner in which the lives of these people were taken,
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  Speaker 7: you know that causes very deep wounds and you know,
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  Speaker 7: the best mental health care in the world I don't
• 11:09
  Speaker 7: think can necessarily heal those.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: The Prime Minister has now been drag king and screaming
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  Speaker 1: to hold a Royal commission. Are you happy with its
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: structure as you know.
• 11:20
  Speaker 7: It as I understand it. Yes, I think it's important.
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  Speaker 7: I think it should have been done much sooner. I
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  Speaker 7: think it was unfortunate that the family members of victims,
• 11:32
  Speaker 7: rather than being allowed to grieve and more and had
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: to become public advocates for a royal commission. It shouldn't
• 11:38
  Speaker 7: have taken as long as it did. It shouldn't have
• 11:40
  Speaker 7: required the sustained public campaign from all walks of Australian
• 11:43
  Speaker 7: life to get it off the ground. But now it's
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: important that we support it. All Australians support it, and
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: that it is forensic and unhesitant in examining the facts
• 11:55
  Speaker 7: and causes not only the operations on the day, but
• 11:58
  Speaker 7: the whole enabling climate and the rise of anti Semitism
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  Speaker 7: these last two years in Australia, and does everything it
• 12:05
  Speaker 7: can to uncover failings and make recommendations for things we
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: need to do to prevent such an attack at a
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  Speaker 7: taking place again on our soil.
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  Speaker 1: I don't expect you to have read the legislation that's
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: going to come before or both the Lower House and
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the Senate next week. You'll be back in camera as
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: part of the Senate. What you've heard about these hate
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: speech laws that Anthony Albineasi announced on Tuesday. Do you
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: have similar fears to others I've heard today that this
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: could in fact be used to trample over people's rights
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: of freedom of speech.
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: Look, it's a very complicated area. I only saw the
• 12:48
  Speaker 7: legislation yesterday. It's one hundred and odd pages, about one
• 12:51
  Speaker 7: hundred and thirty three. I think of new legislation, the
• 12:55
  Speaker 7: explanatory Memorandum, which explains how this legislation will operate as
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: over three hundred pages. So it's complicated. I've been following
• 13:02
  Speaker 7: the very truncated and shortened hearings into this legislation, but
• 13:08
  Speaker 7: I think it's clear that a number of different groups
• 13:10
  Speaker 7: have concerns from faith based groups, the Jewish community, but
• 13:15
  Speaker 7: also others about how this legislation will work in practice.
• 13:18
  Speaker 7: And I would say it's more important that we get
• 13:21
  Speaker 7: it right than we do it in haste in such
• 13:22
  Speaker 7: a complicated area as this, So without without the Parliament
• 13:28
  Speaker 7: having the time to get across the detail of this legislation,
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: without affected groups and interested groups and lawyers, community groups,
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: religious groups having had the chance to express their opinion
• 13:40
  Speaker 7: on this, I think it's important that we allow that
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: process to play out a little more fully. Yes, these
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: are a high priority. Yes, I think we need to
• 13:49
  Speaker 7: do clamp down on basically incitement to hatred based on
• 13:54
  Speaker 7: religion or race. But it's also important that I think
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: we get these details right because this is a complicated
• 14:00
  Speaker 7: area involving people's civil liberties, our own constitutional structure and freedoms,
• 14:05
  Speaker 7: and I think we need to be close in examining
• 14:08
  Speaker 7: the detail of this and make sure that you know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: we satisfy as many varying interest groups here as we can.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned, Senator, you were the local member, you
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: still live in the electorate. As I understand it, the
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: future of the Bondi Pedestrian Footbridge is up for debate.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I heard Chris Mins with his view. He believes that
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: it would be better if it was knocked over, but
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: he's not going to intervene there. He's going to leave
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: that up to the local council. Do you have a
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: personal view on what should happen to that bridge, which
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you've walked over dozens and dozens it's not
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: thousands of times.
• 14:44
  Speaker 7: Yeah, many times, And I think, as you said, Waverley
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: councils considering this look. I don't have a dogmatic view
• 14:52
  Speaker 7: on this, but I do think using the bridge as
• 14:55
  Speaker 7: some sort of memorial to commemorate the loss and rem
• 15:00
  Speaker 7: for this tragedy would not be a bad use of
• 15:02
  Speaker 7: the bridge. I don't think I'm attracted to tearing it
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: down for the sake of it. I think it's an
• 15:06
  Speaker 7: important part of a tragic history and an event that
• 15:10
  Speaker 7: we should always remember, and retaining the side, although it
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: has many sad, tragic connotations, I think would be an
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: important part of that remembrance. Exercise. But look, of course
• 15:22
  Speaker 7: I would be guided primarily by the victims, the family
• 15:26
  Speaker 7: members of the victims, and what they would like to
• 15:29
  Speaker 7: see happen here.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we put it into their hands and
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: let them decide. And you know, there's one argument being
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: put today that if you bulldoze it, you're letting the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: terrorists win. So I tend to agree with you just
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: for you go. Can I ask you about this idea
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: of a national day of Morning announced for next Thursday,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the twenty second of January. Are you in favor of that? Yes,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I am. I think.
• 15:55
  Speaker 7: Look, that's basically in the Jewish tradition. Not all the
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: victims were Jewish, I hastened to add that, but the
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: majority of them were. Thirty days after the funeral of
• 16:08
  Speaker 7: someone who's passed, it's a commemorative occasion when you remember
• 16:12
  Speaker 7: in honor of their lives, and this depending on who
• 16:15
  Speaker 7: the victim was and when they were buried. You know,
• 16:17
  Speaker 7: this twenty second of January would be in that vicinity,
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: and I think it's an important occasion for our nation
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: to come together after the initial shock and trauma and
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: grief of the attack itself, the subsequent funerals, the makeshift
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: moral if you like, at Bondi Pavilion to reflect and
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: remember that tragedy, and I think that I am in
• 16:38
  Speaker 7: support of that. I think it's an important occasion for
• 16:40
  Speaker 7: us to reflect and remember.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Senator Shama, thank you very much for your time, Senator
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Dave Shama. They're always talking sense. Let's stick on next
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: week's legislation. It's the combining of the gun laws, I think,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and the hate speech that's causing, especially the Nats in
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: one nation, the wonder whether tougher gun laws are even needed.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, many people today are saying, well, they haven't
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: even completed the gun law reforms that John Howard introduced
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: after the horror report. Arthur joining me now former Speaker
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: of the House, Roman Bishop and News Corp columnist Angela Mola.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Great to have you both with us. Broman, you know
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: more about drafting legislation and amended bills and voting in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the House and what's going to happen in the Senate.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: This is a wide ranging, complicated major change, with some
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: arguing will be a danger to free speech. Is it
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: being rushed too quickly?
• 17:35
  Speaker 8: Certainly it is, and my view of the bill as
• 17:38
  Speaker 8: it is presently constituted, is that it should be rejected.
• 17:43
  Speaker 8: It is an affront to freedom of speech. You know,
• 17:47
  Speaker 8: freedom of speech is something that is inherent in a democracy,
• 17:52
  Speaker 8: and it's a Western culture concept. It came through Magna
• 17:58
  Speaker 8: Carta up through the Bill of Rights of sixteen eighty eight,
• 18:02
  Speaker 8: the writings of Milton, the Enlightenment, and it is JS Mill.
• 18:08
  Speaker 8: It's come to us as an important pillar of maintaining
• 18:12
  Speaker 8: a democracy, and to rush through this piece of legislation
• 18:17
  Speaker 8: which is amalgamated material, which doesn't relate to each other,
• 18:24
  Speaker 8: simply so that the government, in its cynical way, knows
• 18:28
  Speaker 8: it can find division for the National Party and of
• 18:32
  Speaker 8: course One Nation over the question of guns, because they
• 18:36
  Speaker 8: say quite rightly that they are going to make normal
• 18:41
  Speaker 8: law abiding citizens pay for the guilty actions of the terrorists.
• 18:48
  Speaker 8: So it is a mishmash, but there's nothing accidental about it.
• 18:52
  Speaker 8: This bill has taken a good deal of time to draft.
• 18:55
  Speaker 8: It goes through a lot of stages to come to
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: the exposure draft, he explained through memorandum, takes a long
• 19:02
  Speaker 8: time to put together. And so this time that the
• 19:05
  Speaker 8: Prime Minister has been saying, well, we might have a
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: Royal Commission or we might come back. He has been
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: behind the scenes crafting what he knows will be a
• 19:15
  Speaker 8: disastrous bill and it should be rejected.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Angela. I speculated at the start of the program that
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the Prime Minister needed to change the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: narrative to get the arguments away from him not calling
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: a royal commission and him not, you know, being strong
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: enough to react straight after BONDI you suspect with what
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Bromwin said there and when you look at this that
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: might might in fact be the case.
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: And that's right, Steve.
• 19:44
  Speaker 9: Look, there is reacting and then there's being reactive, and
• 19:47
  Speaker 9: I think he's being that at the moment. He is
• 19:50
  Speaker 9: trying to formulate policy from a place of grief and
• 19:54
  Speaker 9: actually it needs clear headedness. I really like what a
• 19:57
  Speaker 9: British lawyer has said overnight. He said that was written
• 20:00
  Speaker 9: in the heat of an outrage, become rights lost in
• 20:04
  Speaker 9: the cold light of day. And he goes on to
• 20:05
  Speaker 9: say that he's a free speech lawyer. He says free
• 20:10
  Speaker 9: speech isn't the enemy of social harmony, it's the foundation
• 20:13
  Speaker 9: of social harmony. And I think at the moment, what's
• 20:16
  Speaker 9: happening with this legislation and the fact as Bromin mentioned
• 20:19
  Speaker 9: that it's all being rolled into one piece, into one
• 20:21
  Speaker 9: piece together with the gun laws, which of course are
• 20:24
  Speaker 9: a regional and a and a city issue. Quite different
• 20:28
  Speaker 9: approaches to that is that it's too much at once.
• 20:31
  Speaker 9: It's confusing, but more to the point, it's not driving
• 20:34
  Speaker 9: us in the direction that we want, which is cohesion
• 20:37
  Speaker 9: at the moment rather than division.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Well, there's certainly going to be a heap of division
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: when everybody gets back to camera, I knowe Liberal MP
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Andrew Hasty. This afternoon Broumwin has shared on social media
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: that he'll be voting no to the changes. Here's what
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: he had to say.
• 20:53
  Speaker 10: I'll be voting no to this bill. I'll be voting
• 20:55
  Speaker 10: against it for two main reasons. The first is this
• 20:58
  Speaker 10: bill is an attack on our base democratic freedoms, freedom
• 21:02
  Speaker 10: of conscience, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. But secondly,
• 21:07
  Speaker 10: the Prime Minister is showing absolute contempt for normal parliamentary process.
• 21:11
  Speaker 10: For a bill of this size, we would normally take
• 21:13
  Speaker 10: a few months to consider it. It would go into
• 21:15
  Speaker 10: a committee process and the public would have an opportunity
• 21:19
  Speaker 10: to make submissions. There would be public hearings, MPs and
• 21:23
  Speaker 10: senators would debate it and they would consider fully the
• 21:25
  Speaker 10: unintended consequences of this bill. Instead, the Prime Minister has
• 21:30
  Speaker 10: reduced that process to.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: A couple of days. Well, Brumin Andrew's basically saying, they're
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: what you said. So how does the new Liberal leader
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Susan Lee now handle this? So be because she's got
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: people splintering all over the place. What does she need
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: to do next week?
• 21:46
  Speaker 8: She needs to pull them all together? And don't know.
• 21:50
  Speaker 8: And the reason I say that is that the Liberal
• 21:52
  Speaker 8: Party of the coalition generally is bleeding to one nation
• 21:56
  Speaker 8: and the reason that it's bleeding is because one nation
• 21:59
  Speaker 8: is presenting a which is clear, concise and consistent, and
• 22:04
  Speaker 8: this is seen to be the coalition dithering. Now, I
• 22:07
  Speaker 8: think Susan Lee has done a very good job through
• 22:10
  Speaker 8: this appalling time that we've gone through. She's been strong
• 22:14
  Speaker 8: and she's been morally courageous. But on this particular issue,
• 22:18
  Speaker 8: this bill is a travesy everything that was said by
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: Andrew about the length of time that a bill of
• 22:24
  Speaker 8: this size would normally take. But it has been deliberately
• 22:27
  Speaker 8: contrived to put it together to cause argument and discourse,
• 22:34
  Speaker 8: which will the Labor Party hopes put the opposition into
• 22:40
  Speaker 8: ill repute because they're not agreeing with what they're saying
• 22:43
  Speaker 8: is going to be the solution. There is one question
• 22:46
  Speaker 8: and one question only that needs to be answered, both
• 22:50
  Speaker 8: in legislation and in the Royal Commission, and that is
• 22:55
  Speaker 8: how did we get to the situation where two alleged
• 23:00
  Speaker 8: Islamists hunted Jewish and other people who are attending but
• 23:06
  Speaker 8: mainly Jewish, at a Jewish function to kill them in
• 23:10
  Speaker 8: the name of religion. How did we get to that stage?
• 23:14
  Speaker 8: That's what we want to know, because then we can
• 23:17
  Speaker 8: determine how to stop it.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, and of course, sir, those allegations are all going
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: to be be tested in court. We'll see where that goes. Angela.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I note that Trump administration has given labor a slap
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: over the new laws themselves, senior US State Department official
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Sarah Rodgers, believing that they could lead to quote deeply
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: perverse outcomes. Arm We are saying here that the administration
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: of the alban Ezi government is so cynical that they're
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: going to use this not to bring the nation together,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: which is what the Prime Minister's constantly saying. This is
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: about social cohesion. I can't see this creating any social cohesion.
• 23:56
  Speaker 9: That's right. And what the point she makes is that
• 23:58
  Speaker 9: you can critique g Hardess and find yourself with fairly
• 24:03
  Speaker 9: severe consequences for that, But as a g Hardis, you
• 24:06
  Speaker 9: can quote from the Kuran or whatever document you like
• 24:09
  Speaker 9: and you are safe now. As Andrew Hasty mentioned, there
• 24:12
  Speaker 9: are so many potential unintended consequences from this hate speech legislation,
• 24:18
  Speaker 9: and we've seen that play out magnificently well, you know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 9: with huge consequences in the UK where ordinary people making
• 24:27
  Speaker 9: criticisms online a small tweet, that sort of thing have
• 24:30
  Speaker 9: found themselves in prison for twelve month sentences that sort
• 24:34
  Speaker 9: of thing, if you think about it under the new legislation.
• 24:38
  Speaker 9: Israel Phalao, who of course was thrown out of the
• 24:41
  Speaker 9: Wallerbies for his hate speech, would have had a different
• 24:46
  Speaker 9: consequence under these new laws. So you have to think
• 24:48
  Speaker 9: really clearfully about where they will land and how they
• 24:52
  Speaker 9: will impact ordinary people if you push your head with them.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I mean we're all for free speech. People
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: say some stupid things, but that's we can then argue it,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: we can talk about it, we can discuss why what
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: they said was stupid. I mean, we had Green, Senator Marine
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: for Rookie today yet again slamming the government's decision to
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: invite Israel's President Isaac Hertzog last month after the Bond
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: II terror attack. Well, we disagree with her he should come,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: but it's her right, Bromin, to say that that's what
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: she believes, that he shouldn't be here.
• 25:25
  Speaker 8: That's what freedom of speech is. And you know, it's
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: very ironical if you go back through history, when the
• 25:31
  Speaker 8: printing press was invented and suddenly all sorts of information
• 25:36
  Speaker 8: was disseminated. The pope tried to shut it down because
• 25:40
  Speaker 8: he didn't want contradicting views out there. It took a
• 25:44
  Speaker 8: lot of effort to fight back for freedom of speech
• 25:48
  Speaker 8: to get where it is and open up freedom for
• 25:51
  Speaker 8: the individual. And we can't let it go. We just
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: can't let it go. Yes, she's entitled to her freedom
• 25:58
  Speaker 8: of speech, and we can speak back say no, you're
• 26:01
  Speaker 8: not entitled to No, you cannot say that he can't
• 26:06
  Speaker 8: come and expect that to be acted upon. But you
• 26:09
  Speaker 8: can make the statement that you don't want him to come.
• 26:12
  Speaker 8: That's an argument that is fair to have. But we've
• 26:15
  Speaker 8: got to realize that Starmer is a social leftist, socialist
• 26:20
  Speaker 8: prime minister, and this is what you get. Socialists always
• 26:24
  Speaker 8: clamp down on freedom of information. And it's interesting again
• 26:28
  Speaker 8: if you go back into history of nineteen thirty four
• 26:30
  Speaker 8: when HD Wells wants to see Stalin and said to him,
• 26:34
  Speaker 8: I don't think you're quite ready for the freedom of
• 26:36
  Speaker 8: freedom of speech here yet. I mean, the reality is
• 26:40
  Speaker 8: that socialists don't want freedom of speech, and this prime
• 26:44
  Speaker 8: minister is a socialist from the far left of the
• 26:47
  Speaker 8: labor body and does not want freedom of speech.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Great to catch up with you both, brom and Bishop
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Angela Malin. Thank you very much for joining me. Now
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: coming up after the break, Donald Trump Urgesians to keep
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: protesting as that death toll now it just reaches thousands.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Kosha Garda will join me next in the studio to
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: unpack what's happening there. Welcome back to steep Price In
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: for Andrew Bolt. Andrew. Of course, we'll be back with
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: you next Monday. Now, as we've been seeing all day
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: on sky, the news coming out of Iran is absolutely horrendous.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, because of the shutdown of most of the communications,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, no one really knows just how many protesters
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: have been killed and injured. But it's going to go
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: into the thousands, you would think, let alone the number
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: of people who've been thrown in prison. And while the
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: world waits to see exactly what the US president will
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: or will not do, we're just going to have to wait.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: But if we were able to see exactly what was
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: going on there, I think we'd be even more shocked
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: of what we are. Joining me now in the studio
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: sky On News contributor Kosher Gada, Look, let's start with Iran.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: President Trumps urged the Uranians to keep protesting against the regime.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: It's all well and good to say that, but you
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: have to be brive enough to put you off on
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: the lot.
• 28:03
  Speaker 11: Reportedly, they may be thinking seeing or at least thinking
• 28:06
  Speaker 11: that they're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel,
• 28:08
  Speaker 11: possibly that freedom is within reach. Because this holding broke
• 28:12
  Speaker 11: out on the back of economic despair. Their currency completely
• 28:17
  Speaker 11: went down, the tubes tanked, they've got forty two plus
• 28:20
  Speaker 11: percent inflation, half the country's below poverty. Then all those
• 28:23
  Speaker 11: external events had happened, with the Twelve Day War and
• 28:25
  Speaker 11: everything else. The leadership is weak right now, at a
• 28:28
  Speaker 11: weak spot, and so that is when these uprisings tend
• 28:31
  Speaker 11: to have a shot, and Trump, of course is saying
• 28:33
  Speaker 11: that because it is in everybody's best interest, certainly the
• 28:35
  Speaker 11: American people's best interests, if it can be solved internally
• 28:39
  Speaker 11: without US intervention, because as you know, his base does
• 28:41
  Speaker 11: not like that. He also, however, is a master of
• 28:44
  Speaker 11: showing all options and being unpredictable, and he's used language
• 28:48
  Speaker 11: like we are locked and loaded. Every option is on
• 28:50
  Speaker 11: the table, including kinetic military warfare potentially, and we shall see.
• 28:54
  Speaker 11: Nobody knows what's going to happen.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: The regimes held together since none seventy so they're firmly entrenched,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: and there's been other uprisings before. This perhaps is the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: biggest of all of them. But it's not easy. I mean,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: you could take out her many presumably the Americans have
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: got the wherewithal to do that. We've saw what they
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: did with Midduro, and this would be harder. But there's
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: people will step in to replace him. I presume you can't.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: You can't take the whole regime out in one fell swoop.
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: You can't.
• 29:25
  Speaker 11: And he definitely doesn't want to get sucked into the
• 29:28
  Speaker 11: quagmire of nation building and spending years and years trying
• 29:32
  Speaker 11: to remake the country's leadership. For sure, for thirteen years,
• 29:36
  Speaker 11: I think Trump has been saying that was a bad
• 29:37
  Speaker 11: idea everything that the US did in the Middle East,
• 29:39
  Speaker 11: which is why his preferred method seems to be economic pressure, sanctions,
• 29:46
  Speaker 11: choking off oil exports to China that is the lifeblood
• 29:49
  Speaker 11: of the economy.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: That does punish the normal people as well.
• 29:52
  Speaker 11: It does, but maybe it's a necessary pain to more
• 29:55
  Speaker 11: fundamental and structurally take out the regime as opposed to
• 29:58
  Speaker 11: coming in and taking the top guy out. As you
• 30:00
  Speaker 11: say that, there's a deep bench and that may not
• 30:02
  Speaker 11: lead to overall reform. And there could be other things
• 30:04
  Speaker 11: that are not boots on the ground, but like cyber
• 30:06
  Speaker 11: warfare and you know, things like that social media and
• 30:10
  Speaker 11: online propaganda and things like that. The US and all
• 30:12
  Speaker 11: countries do engage in that, So it might be those
• 30:14
  Speaker 11: kinds of things. But given what you're talking about of
• 30:17
  Speaker 11: the scale of the protests and the arrests and everything
• 30:19
  Speaker 11: else that's happening, this is going to get worse beforegets.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Virginie Americans that have essets inside Iran, and they would
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: be getting real time, real information that the rest of
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: US are not getting. So Donald Trump would know exactly
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: what's going on.
• 30:31
  Speaker 11: He would have certainly, we would hope, a clearer picture.
• 30:34
  Speaker 11: And there are some things that leak here and there,
• 30:36
  Speaker 11: probably deliberately of the scale of the protests and the
• 30:39
  Speaker 11: internet blackout and executions potentially a protesters and things like that.
• 30:44
  Speaker 11: So I'm sure he's getting a full intelligence picture that
• 30:46
  Speaker 11: we don't see, including how weakened the leadership is, and
• 30:49
  Speaker 11: all of that will go into his calculus. And you know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 11: he's in charge, so we shall wait and see, we
• 30:53
  Speaker 11: waite and see.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Obviously something's going to happen, probably in the next twenty
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: four to forty eight hours.
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: Now.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Interestingly, the Reserve Bank Australia Governor Michelle Pullock, she's come
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: out and said that she supports US Federal Reserve Chair
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Jerome Power. Now he's been threatened with a criminal indictment.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: This is over comments that he made last year and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: over this refurbishment of the building which they're saying he
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: lied about. Interesting for an Australian bank chief to actually
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: put her hand up and say we're supporting him.
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: It is interesting.
• 31:24
  Speaker 11: She signed on to this letter that I think eleven
• 31:26
  Speaker 11: or twelve other central bankers from other countries did as well,
• 31:30
  Speaker 11: and I would say, on the surface, there are a
• 31:32
  Speaker 11: lot of problems over here, a lot of people are
• 31:34
  Speaker 11: suffering from housing, unaffordability and other things, and that might.
• 31:38
  Speaker 6: Be what she should, with all due respect to her,
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: and be.
• 31:40
  Speaker 11: Focusing on, as I would say the same for those
• 31:42
  Speaker 11: other central bankers and those other countries, rather than signing
• 31:45
  Speaker 11: a statement about another country's chair. The reason, though, is
• 31:48
  Speaker 11: that this tension between Trump and the Federal Reserve really
• 31:53
  Speaker 11: threatens the business model of the central banks, which are
• 31:56
  Speaker 11: not sacra sainct I would say, you know, they've been
• 31:59
  Speaker 11: around and people defenders will say that it's necessary to
• 32:01
  Speaker 11: have this quasi independent body. It's not in the constitution.
• 32:04
  Speaker 11: I could speak certainly for the US. It's not a
• 32:06
  Speaker 11: fourth branch of government. And there are many who have
• 32:09
  Speaker 11: said that, you know, maybe it shouldn't actually be independent.
• 32:12
  Speaker 6: It should be under the purview of the executive branch.
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: That's sort of the.
• 32:14
  Speaker 11: Meta comment, and Trump is trying to get at that
• 32:18
  Speaker 11: in different ways.
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: Maybe this pretext of the criminal in.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Interest rights, because that's kind of for him, that's right.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: He can say, well, look what I've done for the economy.
• 32:26
  Speaker 11: Right, and His point is that they're not really independent.
• 32:29
  Speaker 11: They say that they are, but they're owned by the
• 32:32
  Speaker 11: twelve major banks in the US or all shareholders.
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: They do do.
• 32:35
  Speaker 11: Political things like reducing rates for Biden or over here,
• 32:38
  Speaker 11: you know, during the lockdown, for instance, So they do
• 32:40
  Speaker 11: play politics. It's not like they're totally independent. And he's saying, hey,
• 32:43
  Speaker 11: like this will help my constituents.
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: I should be in charge.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Can the Clintons just go away? I mean, you've got
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Bill and Hillary now announcing they will not a data
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that's subpoena to appear at the congressional testimony. This is
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: all around the Jeffrey Epstein saga. Is there no way
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: for the Republican members of Congress to legally force them
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to turn up?
• 33:07
  Speaker 11: They can so that US Congress has supoena power, can
• 33:11
  Speaker 11: subpoena them to appear if they declined, and the remedy
• 33:14
  Speaker 11: is Congress can hold them in contempt of Congress, which
• 33:17
  Speaker 11: does come with the potential for criminal charges. Nobody ever
• 33:20
  Speaker 11: pursues it. Many people from both parties have.
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: Been held in contempted.
• 33:23
  Speaker 11: Eric Holder, who was the Attorney General under Obama, was
• 33:27
  Speaker 11: as well, but people just don't enforce it. Usually, and
• 33:31
  Speaker 11: that's probably what will happen here. I doubt that they're
• 33:33
  Speaker 11: going to enforce and hold a former president in first leep.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: One of the Republicans made a very good point today
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: that the flight log show Clinton flew hundreds of times
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: with Epstein, and this Republican senator made the point that
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: he was he'd been during his time in Congress to
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the White House nine times, Jeffrey Epstein had been five
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: times more than that.
• 33:56
  Speaker 11: Yes, I think in the court of public opinion, Clinton
• 34:00
  Speaker 11: has kind of been convicted. I'll go out on a
• 34:02
  Speaker 11: lemon see that does it relate to this? As photos
• 34:04
  Speaker 11: have come out, people have known about this forever. He
• 34:06
  Speaker 11: didn't have the best reputation anyway as it relates to
• 34:09
  Speaker 11: women and otherwise. So I think that's there now. The
• 34:12
  Speaker 11: question is legally that's right case in point, But will
• 34:17
  Speaker 11: legally will they hold him liable. I don't know how
• 34:19
  Speaker 11: far Congress will push it, but they do have the
• 34:21
  Speaker 11: authority to Kosha.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Great to see you, Thank you very much, Kosher Garda.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: There will wait with great interest to see what the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Clinton's do now after the break. Joe Hockey, former treasurer
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: for Ambassador the US, is nominated wait for it, Peter
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Dutton as the next ambassador the United States. But is
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: he the right choice. We took the panel about that
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: after the break. Welcome back, like de Bake coming up
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: at the top of the air. Look. I mentioned earlier
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: that Peter Dutton form a liberal leader from an opposition leader.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: His name's been tossed up as a potential replacement with
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Kevin Rudd in Washington. Now, I reckon I'd have a
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: a chance of getting the job, even if Peter is
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: certainly better qualified than some of those names that we've
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: already seen tossed up. Joining me now Labor Advisor Darren
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Barnette and Jim at Tornini from GT Communications. Thanks for
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: joining us. Great to see you both. Now, Joe Hockey,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: he's the former ambassador himself, obviously, I know for a fact,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: And he's tossed up Dutton's name today that Joe's been
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: down on the morning and peninsula out in the sun
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: playing golf. Darren, I think he forgot to put on
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: a hat and.
• 35:31
  Speaker 12: Some sounds grand. Look, Look, it's in some ways not
• 35:34
  Speaker 12: a bad idea that and Joe Hockey knows the president
• 35:39
  Speaker 12: very well. I think he's got on better with the President,
• 35:41
  Speaker 12: probably than any of the previous ambassadors in the last
• 35:45
  Speaker 12: eight years. But equally, look, I can't see Labor extending
• 35:50
  Speaker 12: that olive branch to Peter Dutton when we just had
• 35:53
  Speaker 12: an election. I think it's more likely they'd go further
• 35:57
  Speaker 12: back in time, maybe a Julie Bishop, Christopher Pine, if
• 36:01
  Speaker 12: they were going to head down sort of a political
• 36:04
  Speaker 12: and try to cross the aisle, as they did support
• 36:08
  Speaker 12: Mattias Corman in twenty twenty one when even though Morrison
• 36:12
  Speaker 12: was the Prime Minister, when mister Corman went for the
• 36:15
  Speaker 12: Secretary General of the OECD. So it's not unprecedented, but
• 36:19
  Speaker 12: it's probable that they would look more to one of
• 36:22
  Speaker 12: their own. I think Stephen Conroy ruled himself out today
• 36:26
  Speaker 12: Joel Fitzgibbons in the running. Personally, I think Greg Combay
• 36:30
  Speaker 12: would be a good choice, but whether he wants to
• 36:32
  Speaker 12: do it, wants to not be the future Fund chair,
• 36:36
  Speaker 12: which is a pretty important job as well. But if
• 36:39
  Speaker 12: they decided to go down the nonpartisan pathway, I think
• 36:42
  Speaker 12: Greg Moriarty would be a very good choice. He's got
• 36:46
  Speaker 12: all of the necessary skills, experience and knowledge, and I
• 36:50
  Speaker 12: think he's probably the front runner.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Jemma. I guess you can't rule anything out in this space.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about this today. I mean, who would
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: have thought that Heath Pitt would have been chosen by
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the alban easy labor government to fill the plumb job
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: of Australia's men in the Vatican. Now that's the job
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I want, That is the best of all of them.
• 37:11
  Speaker 13: Is there a job being ambassador to the Kentucky der
• 37:14
  Speaker 13: because I'll take that job anything with ponies in this
• 37:17
  Speaker 13: year of the horse.
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: Steve, look, you know, you like to think.
• 37:21
  Speaker 13: That all politicians from both sides of the fence, or
• 37:24
  Speaker 13: the increasingly convoluted fences, i should say, are able to
• 37:28
  Speaker 13: put partisan decisions aside in the national interest. You'd like
• 37:32
  Speaker 13: to think so, because that's what adults do, and the
• 37:35
  Speaker 13: whole purpose of government is being able to serve the
• 37:39
  Speaker 13: public and decisions should be made for the greater good
• 37:42
  Speaker 13: and the good of the country. So with that in mind,
• 37:44
  Speaker 13: you'd hope that it's the best person for the job,
• 37:48
  Speaker 13: regardless of their political background.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Darren, you're the political advisor, the boss says, Listen, Darren,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: who should we be sending over to replace Kevin? Who?
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: In my view should never have been there in the
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: first place. But you know you've got the call. Who's
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: it going to be?
• 38:05
  Speaker 12: I personally, i'd go with Greek Comba. I think he's
• 38:08
  Speaker 12: very bright. He's got a defense backgrounded defense personnel and
• 38:12
  Speaker 12: material in government, and just has an enormous brain and
• 38:17
  Speaker 12: is likable, is not seen as particularly difficult or hardline politically.
• 38:23
  Speaker 12: I just think he would be a terrific appointment because
• 38:25
  Speaker 12: he's very bright and has done a lot of interesting
• 38:28
  Speaker 12: things and good things, whether it be in defense or
• 38:31
  Speaker 12: a little bit on future fund I think he'd be
• 38:34
  Speaker 12: the best choice.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Jemma, when you look back at who's been in that
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: house in that job, but you'd have to say Joe Hockey,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: who we talked about, did an outstanding job. I think
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: one of the great things he did there is he
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: got on with Donald Trump, played golf with him. He
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: renovated the lawn tennis court at the Residents and so
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: they had barbecues and everyone wanted to go to the
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Australian Embassy. I think Arthur sin Adinas who was absolutely
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: standing and he said yesterday he was surprised that Kevin
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Rudd was going. Do you get a sense Jemma that
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: maybe Kevin got a little nudge.
• 39:10
  Speaker 14: Oh well, who's to say.
• 39:12
  Speaker 13: Who's to say I wouldn't hazard against We all like
• 39:17
  Speaker 13: to think that they've got sort of handprinting in their
• 39:19
  Speaker 13: back in moments like these, but really, who's to say.
• 39:22
  Speaker 13: The interesting thing about this role, in addition to all
• 39:25
  Speaker 13: of the things that you've both said that it is
• 39:26
  Speaker 13: it's really the ultimate stakeholder management job, right, So it's
• 39:31
  Speaker 13: not just about being smart and having a big brain,
• 39:33
  Speaker 13: although those are you'd want them to be absolute, you know,
• 39:36
  Speaker 13: base level requirements, but you've got to have someone who's
• 39:40
  Speaker 13: a people person, who can read the room, who can
• 39:43
  Speaker 13: build relationship, primarily, someone who doesn't pardon the expression, shit,
• 39:46
  Speaker 13: can the president before they get the role.
• 39:48
  Speaker 14: So you know, check the social media feed all of
• 39:52
  Speaker 14: that sort of stuff, and even like you know, the
• 39:54
  Speaker 14: UK the ambassador in London, Like, you don't want someone
• 39:57
  Speaker 14: who's going to rock up and say, look, I'm offended
• 39:59
  Speaker 14: by everything and I'm closing down all the parties and
• 40:01
  Speaker 14: I'm not entertaining because I just don't believe in it.
• 40:04
  Speaker 13: You know, it's a social role, it's a relationship role.
• 40:07
  Speaker 13: Like I said, it's the ultimate stakeholder relationship role. It's
• 40:09
  Speaker 13: a really unique set of skills, so it's not just
• 40:12
  Speaker 13: going you know, like I was a politician and I
• 40:15
  Speaker 13: had a background in this portfolio area. Those are all
• 40:18
  Speaker 13: nice to have sort of smart person canning. A smart
• 40:21
  Speaker 13: person can get across any area of policy complexity quickly
• 40:26
  Speaker 13: if they've got, as you said, the big brain. It
• 40:30
  Speaker 13: is primarily a relationship.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Role, Darren Australia's peak Muslim body, the Australian Federation of
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Islamic Councils. They've joined in the chorus slamming Labour's proposed
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: new hate speech laws. Their president has said in a
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: statement quote, if the legislation is truly intended to address
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: hate in all its forms, then the communities most likely
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: to be impacted have to be at the table, not
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: as some afterthought, but as genuine partners in shape the response.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: That is seen as a mistake, I would have thought
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: from a Labor government that has been so careful to
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: make sure they don't upset the Muslim community.
• 41:12
  Speaker 12: Well, that's true, and I think just the timeline of
• 41:16
  Speaker 12: introducing it into Parliament and bringing Parliament back next week
• 41:20
  Speaker 12: for such a complicated piece of legislation those timeframes are
• 41:25
  Speaker 12: very light, I think, and we frankly, we've had these
• 41:30
  Speaker 12: debates in Parliament before on a number of occasions, and
• 41:33
  Speaker 12: it's devilishly difficult to codify these sorts of changes, particularly
• 41:38
  Speaker 12: if you exempt religion, when fundamental interpretations of religion are
• 41:43
  Speaker 12: a large part of what we're trying to remove and
• 41:47
  Speaker 12: try to outlaw as hate speech. So it's such a
• 41:50
  Speaker 12: complicated area that perhaps more time is needed. But equally,
• 41:55
  Speaker 12: the Prime Minister wants to show leadership post Bondai, and
• 41:59
  Speaker 12: therefore he wants to bring the parliament back and he
• 42:02
  Speaker 12: will want to see a win in those two days.
• 42:06
  Speaker 12: I'm not sure what that win looks like, but he
• 42:08
  Speaker 12: will want something substantial to pass through the Parliament to
• 42:12
  Speaker 12: make it look like that he is listening and that
• 42:15
  Speaker 12: he's acting and that he's in charge.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Darren, Jemma, thank you. I've run out of time. I
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: really did want to ask Jimma about cats on Virgin airlines,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: but we'll do that another time. Thank you both for
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: joining us. I would not get on a plane if
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: someone sitting next to you had a cat in their lap. Now,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: after the break, President Trump issues US intervention into Iran
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: orders but what will that actually look like Forman Defense
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Deputy Secretary Peter Jennings joins me to explain. Welcome back
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: to Laate de bot coming up. Look, I want to
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: return to the unfolding story that is Iran. Now, we
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: don't really know as much detail as we'd like to
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: about what is unfolding there. What we do know is
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands and thousands of Iranians are taken to
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the streets daily in protest against the despotic regime that's
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: ruled that country since nineteen seventy nine. We have seen
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: some pictures showing hundreds of bodies in the street. We
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: can only presume that they are being killed by their
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: own government. Peter Jennings is adjunct fellow at the Institute
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: for Public Affairs and of course SKY Regular and former
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Deputy Secretary for Strategy in the Defense Department. I want
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: to pick your brain, Peter on Iran. We'll get to
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump and what he might or might not be
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: able to do in a moment. But this is a
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: very difficult regime to unseat. On getting a sense of.
• 43:41
  Speaker 15: Yes, they've been able to stare down or beat down
• 43:46
  Speaker 15: threats to the regime over many years, including in twenty
• 43:49
  Speaker 15: nineteen and twenty twenty two. These protests are a little different, though, Steve,
• 43:54
  Speaker 15: They're much more widespread. They do seem to have led
• 43:57
  Speaker 15: to significant number of deaths, which tells me that there's
• 44:00
  Speaker 15: more numbers of people on the streets protesting. There has
• 44:05
  Speaker 15: been I believe a bit of a lull in protests
• 44:07
  Speaker 15: in the last few days, so that could mean the
• 44:09
  Speaker 15: security forces are now on top of the problem, or
• 44:12
  Speaker 15: it could mean that we've just seen a pause. I
• 44:16
  Speaker 15: think something that's true here is that the regime is
• 44:19
  Speaker 15: on a slow slide out, and it might happen this week,
• 44:22
  Speaker 15: it might happen in six months or twelve months. But
• 44:26
  Speaker 15: it's very hard for me to see how they can
• 44:28
  Speaker 15: rescue their position here to get back to a point
• 44:31
  Speaker 15: where there won't be protests in the streets. And so
• 44:34
  Speaker 15: this really is a pretty crucial tipping.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Point right now.
• 44:37
  Speaker 15: And I wouldn't rule out that, notwithstanding the repressive nature
• 44:41
  Speaker 15: of the secret police and other forces, that maybe there's
• 44:47
  Speaker 15: going to be just enough momentum for popular resistance to
• 44:51
  Speaker 15: rise up and push the Mullers out.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: If you had to assess how popular this movement is,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: we've seen populist movements around the world forever overthrow unpopular regimes.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: But are there significant numbers of Iranians who actually don't
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: mind the regime and happy to live under them.
• 45:16
  Speaker 15: I think they've been prepared to tolerate that the regime
• 45:18
  Speaker 15: since nineteen seventy nine, for as long as there was
• 45:21
  Speaker 15: food on the table and career opportunities. Increasingly though, that's
• 45:25
  Speaker 15: what's now in question. A power cuts, food and fuel shortages.
• 45:32
  Speaker 15: The regime has run its course, and I think that
• 45:34
  Speaker 15: now reflects the increasing anger that we see on the streets.
• 45:39
  Speaker 15: And you can only get by with repression for so
• 45:41
  Speaker 15: long before those factors become I think, overwhelming. So it's
• 45:48
  Speaker 15: in its end of days. So what what I can't
• 45:50
  Speaker 15: tell you, Steve, is if it's this week or you know,
• 45:53
  Speaker 15: sometime in twenty twenty six.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: But I don't think it's got.
• 45:58
  Speaker 15: The capacity to bring back the economy, and I think
• 46:01
  Speaker 15: that's going to be the key driver in terms of
• 46:02
  Speaker 15: whether the Iranians in the street will be prepared to
• 46:07
  Speaker 15: tolerate the kind of oppression which they've had from their
• 46:09
  Speaker 15: government for so many years.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Peter, I mean the tilking, the economy, the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: currency is now collapsed. Let's talk about Donald Trump. I mean,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: we've seen just last week where American forces were able
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: to go into Venezuela they snatched Maduro and his wife.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Still extraordinary. What exactly how they did that. We're told
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: that they had a lifelike, you know, construction of where
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Maduro was. They practiced for month after month after month.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: We can only presume that when Donald Trump says, well,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: you better stop killing your own people or I'm going
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: to intervene, what's the reality of what he could actually do.
• 46:48
  Speaker 15: Well, there's one country that will have those walkthrough models
• 46:52
  Speaker 15: of how the senior leaders live in Tehran, and that's Israel.
• 46:57
  Speaker 15: And people are talking about Israel very much now. They
• 47:01
  Speaker 15: will have the right target set to be able to
• 47:04
  Speaker 15: know how to go after the key elements of repression
• 47:07
  Speaker 15: of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and the Internal Security Police.
• 47:11
  Speaker 15: They went after a significant number of those in the
• 47:14
  Speaker 15: last the so called Twelve Day War. So I would
• 47:18
  Speaker 15: love to know just what's happening behind the scenes. In
• 47:20
  Speaker 15: terms of Israel talking to the United States, I think
• 47:24
  Speaker 15: it would be possible, if the Trump regime is minded
• 47:27
  Speaker 15: to do so, to engage in military strikes which would
• 47:31
  Speaker 15: decapitate a senior part of the military and strategic leadership
• 47:36
  Speaker 15: which is now conducting repression against the Iranian people. But
• 47:41
  Speaker 15: as with Trump's late involvement in the Twelfth Day War,
• 47:45
  Speaker 15: I don't think we'll see that unless he has come
• 47:48
  Speaker 15: to the view that the regime is on its last legs,
• 47:50
  Speaker 15: in which case he'll be prepared to deliver the final push.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: So that's something to watch for.
• 47:56
  Speaker 15: And I think we need to look at all the
• 47:58
  Speaker 15: groups around the borders, many of whom are working very hard,
• 48:01
  Speaker 15: including the Kurds, to push back against the Iranian regime.
• 48:04
  Speaker 15: It's different this time, Steve. This is not just uprisings
• 48:10
  Speaker 15: in the major urban centus that can be put down quickly.
• 48:13
  Speaker 15: This is different, and that's what leads me to think
• 48:16
  Speaker 15: that the regime is now in trouble. And if Trump
• 48:20
  Speaker 15: works according to this record, that might be precisely the
• 48:23
  Speaker 15: moment when he decides to intervene by taking out some
• 48:26
  Speaker 15: key leaders and really then saying to the protesters, Okay,
• 48:30
  Speaker 15: we'll go for it. Now it's your opportunity.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Well we'll wait and see. It's history unfolding in front
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: of our very eyes. Peter Jenning's all it's a pleasure
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: to catch it, thank you very much. Coming up is
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: the Late Debate, I should point out tomorrow and New
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: South Wales Police are going to make a statement about
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: this protest that is supposed to happen on Friday night.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: We'll see exactly what the police are going to do.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Late Debates up next.