Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 85: Clint Eadie - Beyond the Try Line to Legal Recruitment

Transcript

85: Clint Eadie - Beyond the Try Line to Legal Recruitment · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, once I'd made that transition to the rugby sort of things I had, that I was striving for that super rugby contract and big thing about that was obviously getting that training.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: And then I think the landscaping did help me a bit because it is outside you are kind of doing some physical labor, so it kind of does help with a bit of your fitness and stuff like that and even some strength in some aspects as well.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that was helping me a bit.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: But then, yeah, luckily I had a boss who knew my aspirations and he would let me finish a bit early someday so I could go home and rest before training or start a bit later on some days.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: So he was really good and do remember some days where I was absolutely bent by the end.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: So I was sleeping very well through those years in bed early and not much would wake me.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: So I was very tired during the days.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: But it was all part of my journey to in this drive to get that super rugby contract.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Hi.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I'm Ryan God-Salvers and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Elite athletes are still people after born.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Clint, welcome to the show.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Obviously, I've been looking into what the stuff you've been doing and listening to a few of the podcasts and I think it's a really good concept.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I'd like to share my side of my story and if it helps someone in the future, I'll be very happy and I'm really looking forward to it Brilliant, Listen.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: thanks very much.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I'm looking forward to is.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: The interesting bit about you is you played a sport, you transitioned to another one, then you switched countries and now you've switched countries again.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So within your career transition, there are many layers of transition that have happened all the way through.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: So I look forward to, I guess, delving into that a little bit more today.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: That would be great.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've kind of done that.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I've switched between sports and then, yeah, obviously spent a lot of time in France, but now I'm residing here in Dubai, which is, yeah, everybody is very shocked when they hear that I'm living here from where I have been and where I've been.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's been a journey, but I've loved every minute of it, brilliant, yeah Well, let's kick off with where you are and what you are doing nowadays.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: What is it that gets you into Dubai?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: What keeps you busy?
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, so rugby was coming towards an end around that COVID time and COVID kicked off.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: We got in France, we do the preseason, and then COVID kicked off.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: So it was preseason, bash ourselves and then stop, then bash ourselves and stop.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: And I think my body just said, okay, that's enough.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: So during that COVID time, I was me and my now wife were.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I was in France, still, she was in London and we were looking at moving somewhere and back to either Australia or New Zealand to continue our lives.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: And then her company just threw it out there saying that they'd opened an office here in Dubai with which she'd be open to running it and everything.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, one thing led to another and once all the travel restrictions opened up, we were, yeah, we're moving to the desert in the middle of summer.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: And yeah, like going from going from London, where it was still 20 degrees during the day, to Dubai, I think I think it was about the third day I arrived here.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: It was, I think it hit 50.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I didn't think I was going to last a month.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: On that first few days I was really struggling.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, been here for two and a half years now.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: So you know, it settled in and, yeah, really enjoying it.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: And what's your?
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: role at the moment.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, so, as I just said, you know we had a bit of time during that COVID time where I could, before the borders opened up, where you know I knew we were coming to Dubai.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: So I started to to reach out to a few people and you know it's through LinkedIn and, yeah, now I'm currently doing a recruitment, doing legal recruitment for Calvin James recruitment, which you know, with that we do a lot of work across the GCC region and we, yeah, so I've been in the role for coming up the two and a half years and learned a lot from being a freshie into a role into the corporate world then to, yeah, now I'm, you know, leading the legal recruitment for the company.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's really good, as I often do in the show is, you know, we start with where are you today?
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: And then recognizing well, actually getting to that role is coming from something that is vastly different, and that being professional athlete.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: So let's just take I don't know a few minutes now, just to sort of take ourselves back and just try and figure out how on earth did you get to that role?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: And so what I'd love to do is just kick off where were you?
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Where did sports start getting serious for you?
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: What were you doing?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: So, yes, obviously, with my, my bloodline, obviously my father being one of the greats of the rugby league.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, his career speaks to itself.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: You know, with the Meeley Seagulls, I me and my two brothers all got into trying to follow these footsteps.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, coming through school, I think we focus more on the sport side rather than the education side of things.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, it kind of wasn't until I started to make a few of the rep teams when I was coming through and then coming through the Seagulls, where I kind of made a conscious effort to myself to give it as much as I can and everything and really put in and try and get that career in.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Well, first of all it was going to meant to be the NRL that I was pursuing and yeah, and then that was kind of where I really really started pushing it and getting a lot of the game and everything.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: And obviously the people that you meet kind of does make it a lot easier when you're pushing for a career.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so for you then, like you say, growing up, Northern Beaches, your dad's a legend of the game your plan would be you had those aspirations to be an NRL player.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Then I'm guessing was that was basically the focus for you?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was and obviously with my dad having that legacy at the club and me being able to come into the juniors there, you do feel a bit of that pressure coming from people around and people trying to live up to the family name and I enjoyed every year I had at the Seagulls.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: It was great and, yeah, like obviously with the history that the family's got at the club, it was great to add a bit of that history and, as well, be around it.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: So what happened then for you in the game?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So at what point did you start to?
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess to turn you back on one code and do the unthinkable.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was playing in the reserve grade at the Seagulls and at that stage they had a wide squad where a lot of professional players and I just was still at that age where I was still young for the reserve grade side and I'd spoken to my dad about it and I hadn't been getting a lot of game time.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: So my plan was actually to, during the season I think it would have been 2004.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I was my plan was to actually stop, I think after halfway through the season.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: It was going to be just stop, have a bit of fun with some friends in some rugby.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I hadn't really played a lot of it, so I was just more about have some friends.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I played some rugby with some friends from school and stuff, and then I was going to move to Queensland Cup, up to the Queensland competition and play out there.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, I got down to Waringa and in the playing in the Sydney competition and one thing led to another.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I went from like fifth grade to first grade within five weeks and pretty much stayed there and that kind of started to get a few people talking at Waratars and that kind of opened a few doors there.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I think it was something that was meant to just be a little cameo for some fun with friends Turned out to be a pretty good thing.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: That turned out to build my career.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really good.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: It's often how these things happen, you know, not intentional, but just be it injuries, be it types of games that are needed, and suddenly you find this rapid acceleration.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: So did you get a sense then that the game you had a different future in Rugby Union compared to Rugby League?
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did Got myself through, you know, in that back into that season I started to learn the game, learn come, and I joined the backs, which you know does make it easier when you're transitioning.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I got to learn the game and my skill set really did offer a lot to, you know, in the centre position.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: So, and also the coaching staff and stuff that were down at Warringah really did help me along and got me to learn what my role in a rugby game would be and it kind of, yeah, opened my eyes to.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I had always watched rugby, like wallabies and stuff like that, but never actually played it.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: So once I had a few games and I actually started to enjoy it a bit more and then, yeah, kind of spent my time just learning the game and you know how I could contribute to each match.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: And once I did that, as I said, my skill set really suited that.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Inside centre position.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: What were you doing outside of rugby at this time?
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: So I was actually working as a landscaper because I was doing that while I was playing Rugby League as well, and then, you know, doing the training at night.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: So they were very long days out on the tools, all day, training at the night and stuff like that.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: So I am working five, sometimes six days a week there and then playing, you know training and playing rugby on the weekends.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: And then I think it was after in 2005,.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: You know, the Warra Towers brought me into the development squad there and you know, even that made it even longer because I was training mornings, then working and training nights as well.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: So learning, you know, doing landscaping, which you know was, I found really enjoyable, being outdoors.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Obviously, wanting a career in sport, you know, being outdoors was definitely somewhere where I thought I belonged.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that is interesting, isn't it that outdoorsy feel I think the other bit, I guess, is, I mean, that's hard work.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: You're being a landscaper, you're doing the rugby training morning and evening.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: You know, going through your mind, what is it that you were striving for at that time?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: What would you describe success as being?
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, once I'd made that transition to the rugby sort of things I've had, that I was striving for that super rugby contract and you know, big thing about that was obviously, you know, getting that training.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: And then I think the landscaping did help me a bit where, you know, because it is outside, you know you are kind of doing some physical labor so you know it kind of does help with a bit of your fitness and stuff like that and even some strength in some aspects as well.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that was helping me a bit.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: But then, you know, luckily I was able to.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I had a boss that knew my aspirations and he would, you know, he'd let me finish a bit early someday so I could go home and rest before training or start a bit later on some days.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: So he was really good.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And I do remember, you know, some days where I was absolutely spent by the end.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So I was sleeping very well through those years in bed early and not much would wake me.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: So I was very tired during the days.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: But it was all part of my journey to in the strive to get that super rugby contract, yeah, and well, how did that go?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: That was the aim.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Talk to me about that.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I got into with the Waratars and I was getting close there and then just, yeah, there's a lot of good inside and outside backs that were in front of me that I was pushing and got a few times where I was 23rd man with the Waratars squad and just couldn't make a crack and get into that 22.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, then I think there was three seasons there I was with them and pushing, training with the full-time squad and everything like that.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: So I really had that goal of it was I could see it in my future.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, then something came up that I think, yeah, it was after the 2008 season.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I was really training hard and then my managers came up to me with an opportunity that kind of could take me somewhere else in the world.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: So once that had come up, I was selling there.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I knew it was going to be a six-month contract, so I thought I'd do that, get a bit more knowledge of the game, and then I'd be able to come back to Australia.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: For Clarity, then that opportunity was an opportunity to move over to France.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: So opportunity came, you know, over in the French system that got a something that we yeah they called it a medical joker where you know there is someone that gets injured and is out for the season, you can bring someone in and kind of take that position.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: So this came up one of the club that I did go to and they had one of their centers went down and it all happened like literally in seven days, where something my manager rang and said, oh yeah, something's come up and oh, it's just like, okay, we'll see what happens.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, pretty much seven days later, I was on the plane leaving Sydney and, yeah, heading to France for what was meant to be a six-month contract.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: So in your mind was it well, I'll just go do this, it will be a bit of fun, I've never been there, get to play rugby.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Or was it okay?
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: This is it.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: This is a big move.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: This is, you know, something major is going to come from this.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: What was going through your mind as you accepted that offer?
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was speaking to my manager at the time, you know, in Australia, and we both said like it could be a good opportunity go over there six months, learn a different style of rugby and enjoy Europe, do some travelling and stuff, and then come back and get back into once the season finishes.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Normally over there there's season finishes April, may, so I would have been able to come back and get back into the Sydney shoot here.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: So I thought about it and then just went it'll be a good opportunity.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: It'll be a six months.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: You know, there it was something that, being in another professional environment, yeah, why not jump at the chance and kind of see what comes from it.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And what were you?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: You were landscaping.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, were you able to just leave the landscaping job easily?
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing Waringa and you know all the Tars let you go.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, from a career, that longevity perspective, how did that play into your decision making?
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the landscaping my boss was, he was great with it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: He just said, yeah, go, you know, see the opportunities amazing, you know, go and experience Europe.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And that stage, more time at the Tars was kind of coming to an end.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: It was they kind of said that they in the top squad they had had enough backs to fill positions and then, you know, I was getting a bit older and older for the development squad then, so they didn't really want to keep me on board.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: So it was kind of Waringa were open to.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Obviously they thought I was going over for six months and coming back.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: So but yeah, that kind of longevity was more.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as I said earlier, it was more just to as well, like get the experience of a different top style of rugby which I could hopefully enhance in my game and bring back and and utilize that in the Sydney shoot yield Right.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that does make sense.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, it certainly does.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And how did you find that experience At?
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: first it was very like.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: It was excitement, obviously, you know, leaving Sydney to trip, to move over to France.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I still remember to this day, like we're getting on the plane.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: At that stage I flew a Qantas from Sydney, singapore, singapore, london and the whole way over.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I was really excited.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, now this is going to be fun.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Got to London and I had to go from London to Leon and an hour flight and I remember just sitting there just about to take off in London, just thinking what am I doing?
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Like I've left Sydney and it's like I think I left, and it was like 39 degrees that day, about to land in Leon, which at that I think that day was minus six and snowing, and I was sitting there just thinking I don't speak a word of French, it's freezing cold.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I've never, like, been in an environment where, like you know, played.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: In an environment like this, where it's this cold, what am I thinking?
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but then I got there and you know the club was great.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they welcomed me with open arms.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I ended up knowing a few people that I'd crossed paths with in the Sydney competition, so it was good.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: They made me feel really welcome and, you know, the club itself was more, as you know, with the foreign players there they kind of made it feel like a family, so they knew that you know we were over there for rugby, but they wanted to make you feel like you know you were part of the town and part of the team, part of the club.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, like it went from a range of emotions.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: That was that.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, I enjoyed every single moment and loved it over there and, yeah, that's what I stayed for so long.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you did.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, and you know you said, learn a different style of rugby, going from league to playing in Australia and playing to obviously then go into union, but then playing, I guess, the Aussie style.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: What was different as you went over to France?
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: How would you describe the styles as different?
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: With the Southern Hemisphere.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Rugby, like you see, it's just so free-flowing and they throw it around a lot where, obviously, in the Northern Hemisphere, you've got, you know, those winter months where you're playing and it's, like you know, single.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: You know one or two degrees and sometimes snow, sometimes it's just wet, so you can't, the weather just doesn't allow you to play that free-flowing rugby.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: So you've got to, you know, just learning, though you know, obviously that field position is so important when it comes to there.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: You're not going to score five or six tries every game.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: You're going to have to win some time before kicking penalty goals and stuff like that.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: You're going to have close games.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: So at the start it took me.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: It did take me a while to get used to that, but you know, the longer I was there, the more I understood and you know, the more I could.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I end up, you know, going over there as a 12 and you know, with the knowledge that I've got, I ended up being able to end up being a number 10 and kind of running a team over there, which you know I wouldn't have been able to do.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: You know, when I first went over and the knowledge that I gained over there was amazing and the help that they do offer and over there, you know, you've got the top two divisions as professional competitions, so every single player is professional and you're training two or three times a day.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: So it's, it was a good environment and you know, obviously, the game that I got to know it was good.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Just unfortunate that I never actually got back to Australia to be able to, you know, apply that over there.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Never say never.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: You never know what's going to go.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Well, who to hung up?
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: We'll have to see then about coaching and all sorts of things to bring another style of Dubai based style of play.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: And it's 50 degrees, that's a bit more interesting, yeah.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: So look, what I do find fascinating is, again, that shift.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: So for you, that initial shift yes, the game is different.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: You describe that socially.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: You're mixing with different people as well, different language.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: So for you, what helped get you through that shift?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: You know the bit off the field.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think over there I was lucky enough.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: As I said, I knew a few people from Australia and New Zealand that had been there as well and with the French people like they actually you know a lot of them they do learn a bit of English.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: They're just very timid and they don't like to make.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: They get really ashamed if they make an error.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: So they actually started.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: But they did try to start coming out as players use that English and it was good because I was thrown straight in the deep and it got me learning French.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: You know, the club kind of helped out as well with some lessons as well, but I think the biggest thing that I learned was just to to kind of dive into the culture, that the French culture.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I wasn't going to be over there, stick to my own Australian culture.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: I was just going to really get into that culture and obviously that kind of you're meeting a lot of people, you're getting that language.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: It kind of was really good and I dove into learning a French and, yeah, but obviously after being there for so long, I did get to pretty much get to a fluent stage.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: So it did open my eyes as well to what happens on the other side of the world, because obviously being in Australia, so far from everything being over there, kind of opens your eyes to different cultures, which was amazing.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I speak a lot about when I lived in France and Belgium for a few years, I think for me, the way I learned the language was through playing, so it was because of football, as you were saying.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: You need to learn the language so you can communicate with your teammates and you need to have it quick.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: It has to be a very fast recall.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: If someone's telling you left or right forward, whatever it might be, you need to be able to comprehend it and act on it straight away.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: So I fully understand that learning language through the sport gives you that cultural immersion and it makes you feel at home much sooner.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously with our sportspeople, we feel at home out on the pitch and yeah, that kind of, as you said, when you're out on the pitch there is that language.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: And the thing is as soon as you learn, obviously, the rugby.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I learned the rugby French before I learned the actual French, so it was a good kickstarter into actually learning the language properly.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so for you.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Then, coming through rugby, you made France as a country became home for you.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: When you then start thinking, at what point did you start to think, hey, this isn't going to last forever, but I'm going to have to do something after the game?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: When did that thought first come into your mind?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I?
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: think it was about 32 years old and I remember I woke up one morning and it was kind of something just clicked and the recovery process after games and stuff like that just got a lot harder and it took me a lot longer to recover from bumps and bruises and stuff like that.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: So that's when I started to get a bit of an idea of what obviously that life after playing and I did look into a lot of different things over there.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I actually did look into coaching a lot, had a lot of conversations with different coaches both in and around France and international coaches as well, just about the lifestyle as well as the commitment and everything.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: And a few coaches actually just opened right up to me and just said, obviously, coaching is not for everyone.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: It is a cutthroat business where it does make it difficult as you're the coach, but if things aren't going well, you'll probably be the first one shown the door.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: So I kind of opened my eyes a bit and I still do enjoy being in and around the game.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: From then on I was like, yeah, I don't think professional coaching is something that I wanted to go down, a road that I wanted to go down.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I want to.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Obviously, as I said, it's such a cutthroat you can be sacked pretty quickly, as we've seen around the world in all sports.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: So it was kind of that security type of thing wasn't really didn't look great.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: So I kind of that's why, as I said, I still love being involved with rugby, but it's not a career for me.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: No, how did you then go about exploring other things you mentioned?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: You had this bit of an exploration.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: How did you do that?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: The first thing was, obviously I spoke with my family.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I was getting to that point where it was coming up to I think it was about a year before COVID hit so I knew my time on the fit field was coming to an end.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I was ready to look into that life after rugby.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I had one or two years left on my contract.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I thought that that was going to be my last one.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I started to speak to a few people, especially back in Australia, some family friends that had success in the business side of things.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: But also I started to speak to career counsellors as well and they kind of opened my eyes to.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: They opened my eyes to things that I was learning in my rugby career that I didn't know, that I was actually going to help me in the future.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Obviously that team building, which, but also the conversations that you get to have with supporters, sponsors etc.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: But I just thought that was just having a conversation, but I was actually learning a lot about building skills for that.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Obviously, I think life after rugby that these career counsellors kind of opened my eyes for that and we had a conversation.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: As I said, I had a few conversations with different ones and they kind of started to point me in some different directions, into directions where obviously I could use all those skills and move forward.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: As they were pointing you into these different directions.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: How was that making you feel You've been moved into places where you're naturally comfortable, or what way did it open you up?
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was actually interesting.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: It made me nervous.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Obviously, I was really nervous about obviously starting that next chapter, but then also the support I had around me obviously my partner and now wife she was amazing Family as well.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Just getting just being able to chat with them and get a bit of an idea of what they had, experiences they had that would be able to help me as well.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: So I went from feeling nervous to actually really excited about getting into a role and building something for myself, where previously it was all about sport and rugby, where I kind of was excited about learning something new and building something for myself.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite a different shift, like you say, from the sport being in that team and perhaps it's a different project, but it's you know.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: You know what your role is, you're good at that role, you sort of master that role.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: You talk then about that nervousness on leaving which luckily turned into an excitement.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Similar feeling, but turns into excitement.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: What was it that excited you?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I?
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: think it's the challenge that was coming up.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Like you know, obviously my life had been all evolved around rugby for so long.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Just the challenge of something new.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I think the excitement and nerves can kind of all working together as to push me.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was just more just pushing to, kind of wanted to start straight away and get into it and obviously, yeah, learn as much as I can and kind of and as well.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: It was more as well to try and find out what I was going to be good at, like what career path was going to be in Excel.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: And that was more exciting as well, to see which path I was going to go to.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And so what did you try?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so during that COVID time I started doing a few courses online and stuff like that.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed doing school.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I actually really went well at maths, so I was looking into like accounting and stuff like that.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I did a few courses on that.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, once I started speaking to career counsellors and it wasn't until we found out that we were coming to Dubai that I reached out to a career counsellor here and she was really really insightful for me to see what the market was in Dubai and sales is big here.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And then it wasn't until actually I had four or five sessions with her and it wasn't until I think about the fourth one.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: She had a thought and thought maybe recruitment could work out something for you kind of don't need anything studied in the background, we just got to kind of go forward with it.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: And so I started looking into that a lot more as well and it was more like look like, pretty much as soon as I found out I was coming to Dubai, I started to reach out to anyone I could with sales or recruitment.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: So I spent one day waiting for the borders to open, just pretty much on LinkedIn, sending out messages and everything and, obviously, updating my CV.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, trying to reach out to as many people as I could and trying to get a network started here.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, brilliant.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Seems like you did that well, because we're kind of getting to where you are today in this recruitment role and it's interesting for me because, moving countries a couple of times now finding yourself in the role, what do you think?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I know you worked with the counsellor, but what do you think you've brought from your professional sporting career into the role that you are doing today?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, especially with recruitment, you've got to have that attitude where you're going to get a lot of no's and you're going to get a lot of setbacks, but you've got to keep going forward.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: And as sports men and women, we get that a lot.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: We get a lot of setbacks where we've got to push through.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I think a big part of when I was working with Calvin, the director who put me on, he really pushed for that and said that's going to be a big thing, but also the conversational skills that I learned speaking to all those sponsors, supporters and along the way, that's kind of been able to give me the knack of just being able to speak to people and start conversations.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's a big part of what I do today.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: And obviously, the rugby side of things on the LinkedIn page very good opener and everybody asked how I've got to hear.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: To what extent do you, like you say, people are going to ask, to what extent do you, I suppose, play into that or use that to help you open conversations or understand more about the individual?
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I use it a lot.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Obviously, my past is.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I'm very privileged of the past I've had, so I do use it, especially in the UAE at the moment, like in Dubai itself.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: You're looking at about 6 million habitants here and only I think 250,000 are actual UAE nationals.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: So you get a lot of Brits, you get a lot of South Africans, australians, kiwis.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: It's a big multicultural country.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: So rugby and sport itself is a big part of that.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: So I use it a lot to open doors and open conversations, which we've seen at general councils and head of legals.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: It opens a lot of doors and it starts a good conversation.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, it does, I bet it does, and we spoke.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I often talk about sport.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: We said it from a language perspective.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: It helps.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Our sport helps you learn the language when you're in France, and here I get that similar sense, where sport continues to open doors for you whilst you're in that corporate world as well.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely does, and especially the time when the rugby World Cup was on that.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: But I know I copped a lot of flak from a lot of nationalities with the way the Australians went.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: But again it opened the conversation, it got a few things overlaid in the end which I'm very happy with now.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: So here's the thing I know that the sport it helps, it opens that door, it kicks that the conversation.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: But after that there's got to be or should I say you know, ask your opinion really, should you've got past that sport, that opening of the conversation?
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: To what extent does actual talent for what you're doing then have to start to come through?
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: You know you need to know what questions to ask and everything like that, and that's why I was lucky.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: You know my director, calvin, who brought me on.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: He's taught me a lot I've still got a lot to learn and he's taught me a lot of just the way the recruitment game is.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Like you know, for me he asked like you know, being a legal recruiter, you know you must have done law or something.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: But luckily I you know I said that to my director.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: He goes we don't have to know the laws, we just know their recruitment process.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: So that kind of like helps us making sure that you know we're asking the right questions, knowing the right things that we need to be looking for, etc.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: So having a director or having a boss that is a good teacher has made my transition so much easier and you know he's he's helped me suck so much that you know he's pretty much just brought me to kind of show me the steps of how to go from not knowing recruitment at all into now.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I know how the whole process works and you know it's so far it's been very successful.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm keen to delve in a bit or understand a bit more about that, your description of success, because, like you say, you you came through.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: You've got that, an employer who understands your aspirations.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: You know again, like you know, we speak about the landscaping and you've got an employer there who, who knew what you wanted to achieve and was supportive in that environment and, whether you did it intentionally or not, you found yourself in another environment where you've got a boss who sees your aspirations and is prepared to take the time to get you up to speed to be successful.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Kallun himself.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Like he's been in the recruitment industry for a while, so he was looking.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: It was just the perfect timing for when I was arriving in Dubai actually because he was looking for that.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Someone knew to come on that you could teach, you could take all his wisdom that he's known and pass it on.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: So luckily I was in the right time, here at right time, right place, kind of.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: And yeah, since I've started he's been so helpful with every single bit of the process.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: So it is good to have that person, that kind of a mentor that you can look up to and he knows kind of your background and how your background can move forward.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how it can help move you and keep you progressing.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: So for you today, what is success for you, for?
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: me.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's just I'm still very new to this, I'm still very new to the recruitment games.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: For me it's just getting better every day, every week, every month, every year, just continuing to grow and where I'm seeing the results.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: With that obviously in every week I'm getting better every month, like even he can see the results and which obviously does in the recruitment side of things, obviously the commission that adds to it in the end.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: So and obviously with the commission, that they're getting more commission obviously means you're improving and the artist feel that I'm a lot more confident in showing up and making phone calls, going to meetings and everything now Like I'm getting better every month.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: The job that I'm doing, I'm really enjoying it actually, like helping people find new jobs is it's so satisfying, like when you place someone that has been out of work for a few months and the gratitude that they show you.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: It really does hold something special in me Because I just enjoy helping people and when you do that and you get to make that phone call to tell them that they've got a job, the reactions that you get, it's just amazing, yeah, I guess.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: So I mean, it's nice that what you're finding enjoyable is that helping somebody, helping someone to close a gap, to really solve that for them In your role in a company, in that environment.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I asked you before what is it you brought with you in order to be successful?
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I sense so much humility in you which makes me feel that athlete, it's always about improving and that incremental success.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: What do you think you've had to give up or reduce from being a rugby player?
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: What have you had to get rid of in order to become successful in your current role?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting question.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Obviously, you've got to give up all the accolades you get from the supporters and stuff which, when it comes to going from obviously myself coming from a team environment and coming into a team here, it's very similar.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: You're working as a team for that end goal which is to get to fill a role for your clients.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: So, in terms of what I've given up, I kind of feel like I'm having obviously the physical part of it, physical part of the rugby that's kind of all in an office now where, but again, I'm still still in front of myself in that team environment where our team is working at that end goal which is to fill the roles for our clients.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: So in a way, yeah, I still feel like I'm kind of in sport, but I'm not because I still feel like I'm in a team environment here which we're all striving for that one goal, which is good.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is well, it is good, I agree.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: I think that for me, that team spirit certainly stays in and is a challenging question to think.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: What is it about yourself or the way you operate, that you give up and you know?
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: But what is fascinating there is the first thing you mentioned are those accolades.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: You're not getting the crowd cheer every pass, kick great tackle or that kicks through, but you find yourself in an environment where there's a leaderboard.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: You find yourself in an environment where there is that sort of competitive edge or that visual nature of what's taking place.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: How have you found that?
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely that's gonna stay with me for a long time.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: People will know me, know that I'm very competitive, like I'm very competitive.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I don't even let my wife win in something, so but no, it's the same.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Like this industry, it is very competitive.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: You've got to be able to win all that.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: You're trying to win business, but then you're also trying to provide where that's the competitiveness, where obviously within the team, as you said, there's that leaderboard up on the wall, where you're coming from that sporting background, where you're always trying to be the best you can be, where it's kind of converted to here as well, where I'm trying to be on top of that leaderboard come the end of the year and doing as much as I can to fulfill that and push yourself to get that overall on.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting thinking as we talk about the transition that you're going through and, let's be honest, we're two and a half three years in to this effective transition.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: For you, what would you say has been the most challenging aspect of leaving the game and getting to where you are today?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I think for me I was kind of lucky in a way that I so, as I said, my career finished as COVID kicked in.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: So I had that and in France we had a pretty intense lockdown where we were locked down for six months or six or seven months.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: So I had that time then plus a few more months until we moved to Dubai where I could get prepared for it all.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: So I was lucky enough to go from having that rugby career to having obviously the time off where everybody was off in lockdown and then start a new career fresh after that.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: So I kind of had a slower transition to other people where they've had to get straight into it.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: But I think it kind of helped me a lot to go from playing where some time where I could have about I'd say, close to nine months to a year where I was obviously left the game.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of made that transition a lot I'd say a lot better for me because and maybe adapt a lot more to this, because to the corporate world, because I wasn't having to go pretty much straight away from doing that training program into straight into the corporate world.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: I had that time to adjust.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how funny.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: It sounds like COVID was a positive that time.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Enforced time at home made a positive shift.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I know I probably wouldn't be.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: There wouldn't be many people in the world that could say that.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it was a big thing for me because obviously I finished my time in France as well, which won a little bit of a negative.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: But then I was able to move to London to be with my wife, holy, and now we moved here.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that did help us a lot.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: That's wonderful.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Really, optimism is a skill or is a key capability Many people don't have, and it's good that you're able to see the positive in many of these environments and these situations.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: So that's kudos to you for that.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it was as I said.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: It was a tough time for everyone around the world, but, yeah, I was lucky enough to.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just being able to use that time to change careers, it really did help me.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in some respects it's like it took the pressure of having to do something straight away because you couldn't do something straight.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: When I think for a lot of athletes, indeed for anyone who seems to wants to be changing careers, we get this center of what.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I need to do it now.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I need to make a decision, I need to be applying for jobs, I need to be bringing in revenue for the family of responsibilities, but that enforce lockdown meant you actually had time to reflect and had time to think about things.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Speak to people remotely as well.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: That kind of yet got me into where I am now, like you know, obviously being able to take that time, speak to the right people and, yeah, let me digest what was happening and then move on it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: So I was just that.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: I wasn't rush, rush, rush it was.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I could take my time and make sure that I looked into everything before making that decision and where I was going last couple of questions, really, but when you think about the transition that you had, you know for someone who's listening in what would you say they should focus on in order to help make their transition as good as possible?
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: I think maybe making sure you get a good conversation with some, you reaching out to people best thing I did was speaking to career council actually really did open my eyes into the skills that I had Build from my sporting career, into where that would lead with that, where kind of what roles and what profession after that would.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: That would help and obviously this is that, that was that's their job to know what different skillsets Can strive in different areas.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: So I think that was something that I really took a lot out of, like speaking to them, getting inside into something that I'd never looked into as much as I should.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Off, I wish I'd done it earlier.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I even now, like if I could say one thing going back.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: But you know, now that I've started this career, I kind of wish I'd Look up a lot of time, but I wish I'd like started to do a little bit before I finished.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Rugby is now that I'm in it, you know, obviously it's I'm enjoying it and I do wish that there was.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll put a standard early rather than waiting to go at the end of my career.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, listen clean.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I wanna say thanks very much for sharing your story.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Show your perspective today.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: There's a lot to take away from your journey and look you only a couple of years into your transition after sport, so let's certainly keep in touch.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely thanks for the time and as if this helps someone, I'm really happy, as you know, for those sportsman I'm really.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I really do wish them all the best into that, in that moving into the professional world after sport.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: And yeah, if anyone does want to reach out, you know, just reach out to me on LinkedIn, I'm available, I can have a conversation.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Or, you know, I'm not saying I'm available to help or if you need any advice or anything, I can help out.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, brilliant, clint.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Thanks a lot.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Thanks, ryan.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the second wind podcast.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out second wind dot io for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty book design, nancy from savvy podcast solutions and series from copying content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: That's all from me.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Take it easy until next time.