Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Simon Hart about my choice of The Twin Dilemma (4/4)

Transcript

Talks to Simon Hart about my choice of The Twin Dilemma (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. Hamster with a blump pen knife.
• 0:35
  We're doing quicker, quicker, quicker, Wow.
• 0:40
  Welcome back to Hamster with a Blood Pen Knife, the top two
• 0:44
  commentary podcast. Sorry, I've got the giggles now
• 0:48
  because I started this intro and then Joe burped.
• 0:53
  He's enjoying the twin dilemma so much he's in fits of
• 0:57
  laughter. Well, you know what?
• 1:00
  We found a hell of a lot to discuss in this story already.
• 1:06
  And we've still got another 25 minutes to cover.
• 1:10
  And there are things we still haven't really talked about that
• 1:14
  need to be talked about. I think.
• 1:16
  I still think there's performances to.
• 1:18
  We haven't talked about Noma yet.
• 1:21
  No, we haven't. Who Colin Baker said was hired
• 1:25
  purely to make him look slim in the story, he said the fella had
• 1:33
  a all the way through. The actor, not the character,
• 1:36
  had an air of sort of sort of wry amusement about the whole
• 1:41
  thing, as if he was like what am I doing here?
• 1:44
  I. Think probably a lot of people
• 1:47
  who were in Doctor Who had that similar feeling of.
• 1:51
  This is completely absurd. And I don't quite know what to
• 1:54
  make of it, but I'm just going with it anyway.
• 1:57
  And then he has to do that bit, doesn't he?
• 1:58
  In this episode where he's like, in his head, he's like, my
• 2:06
  career's peaked right there. Wow.
• 2:10
  Look, we've we've found a plot. The planets are aligning or
• 2:16
  sorry, they're being forced to align to allow the eggs to
• 2:20
  scatter amongst the Unicode. I mean, imagine some of our
• 2:24
  favorite planets, you know, Magrafia and where else?
• 2:30
  Rebos. Rebos.
• 2:32
  Yeah, Dolkis. Well, that would only improve
• 2:37
  Dolkis, Delta, Magna and Razzoni.
• 2:42
  I mean the eggs. Zeos, Atrios, Terror Alpha.
• 2:48
  The the eggs are on the way. What?
• 2:53
  There's only one man to stop this from happening.
• 2:56
  That's Colin Baker as Doctor Who with his fabulous coat of many
• 3:02
  colours. It was red and yellow and pink
• 3:05
  and green and purple and orange and.
• 3:07
  Violent Blue, I think that's about it in 54321.
• 3:16
  That's our our quickest. That is for this one, isn't it?
• 3:20
  Yes, that's like the old days. It's because I'm on the promise
• 3:25
  of a Burger King when we're done.
• 3:29
  OK, drag this out now. Oh, oh, hasn't Colin got a
• 3:34
  lovely smile in those tiles? And the the pictures are really
• 3:39
  interesting, the static photos that they used.
• 3:42
  Because the lighting is brilliant.
• 3:44
  There's one where he's in purple and blue and looking Moody, and
• 3:47
  it's really, it's a really great image.
• 3:52
  Here we go, Doctor. They've got Perry.
• 3:56
  The twins look like this is the rehearsal.
• 4:01
  Don't understand what's going on.
• 4:03
  What about poor Drack? Who is the good job?
• 4:07
  He's a good guy, isn't he? And he get and he gets a
• 4:09
  horrible end as well where Mestor's been listening through
• 4:13
  him all that time. Which is a nice twist, although
• 4:16
  it does lead to the what spectacular over the top moment
• 4:19
  where the Doctor goes mestor. Yes.
• 4:23
  And I can't just say I'm going to, I'm going to in the future,
• 4:27
  wait for a moment where I can declaim melodramatically,
• 4:32
  Fraser. His name?
• 4:35
  Just. It's the two syllables, isn't
• 4:38
  it? You can't get that with Joe.
• 4:41
  It's just not or. Sigh.
• 4:44
  If there was a super villain amongst the three of us, we
• 4:47
  Who's the one with the scariest looking beards, yeah.
• 4:51
  The dodgy accent. So what we've got.
• 4:54
  We've got Drac and Noma and the Chamberlain, so there are three
• 4:58
  condors and between the three of them I think you've got three
• 5:01
  very different characters there. Haven't you got no no hold out?
• 5:05
  Yeah. Strack, who's the good guy, and
• 5:09
  the Chamberlain who basically he just sees what way the wind's
• 5:12
  going. Yeah, and it's going to be
• 5:13
  there. Oh, this is great.
• 5:15
  Watch Colin in the scene. He treats this slug as if it's
• 5:22
  like the most terrifying force in the universe.
• 5:27
  It's debatable who the fool is. Psy.
• 5:30
  Yeah. Peter Moffat is directing this
• 5:36
  one and we've we've talked about Peter Moffat before, but.
• 5:40
  How do you feel he's doing here? Because nothing seems too bad
• 5:47
  direction wise at all, though a powerful.
• 5:53
  No. Well, that's very true, but is
• 5:55
  this actually an example of JNT being fairly wise and employing
• 6:01
  someone who's? Have a very safe pair of hands
• 6:05
  to nurture Colin through his first story.
• 6:08
  So there's not going to be any drama behind the scenes.
• 6:12
  That's, which is great. What's bad is there's not going
• 6:15
  to be no drama on the screen either because.
• 6:20
  It's it's interesting because I remember there was something I
• 6:24
  read years ago where they were talk someone had been talking
• 6:29
  about. Caves and the Twin Dilemma.
• 6:32
  But talking about it from the BBC point of view.
• 6:36
  And someone was people who had worked on the stories and
• 6:40
  someone preferred the Twin Dilemma because actually there
• 6:44
  was a director who was in control, who got everything done
• 6:48
  on time, on budget, completely, without any kind of drama or
• 6:54
  anything else, and not sort of pushing the the, the studio
• 6:58
  clock. And they admired that person
• 7:01
  because he worked in the system, whereas Graham Harper wasn't.
• 7:07
  I think the only time that that argument holds way is at the
• 7:11
  time when this is being produced.
• 7:13
  Oh, absolutely. It doesn't hold up now.
• 7:15
  It goes out to the masses and what you have are two pieces of
• 7:18
  work that you scrutinise as presented and unfortunately, in
• 7:25
  directorial terms, dilemma. Don't cut it.
• 7:30
  The trouble is as well, like Graham Harper, want to turn the
• 7:32
  lights down? You would never have had Mess
• 7:34
  Story in a long shot. No, with Graham Harper.
• 7:38
  You know, I know Harper never really got a slow story like
• 7:44
  this. Like a.
• 7:45
  No, that's true. So because they were giving him
• 7:49
  script I, I. Suddenly Revelation of the
• 7:53
  Dialects was a good fit for him, sort of after Androzani.
• 7:57
  But imagine if he'd got Time Lash, which was the studio bound
• 8:00
  story. Mind you, there's quite a bit of
• 8:03
  action in time. There's a little movie.
• 8:06
  I think he probably could have done it.
• 8:07
  Could have done it, but, well, anyone could have done it better
• 8:09
  than Pennant Roberts. Really.
• 8:11
  So Graham Harper got stuff like Unicorn and the Wasp in the new
• 8:15
  series, and that's been talky and not.
• 8:17
  Exactly. So he can do it?
• 8:20
  Yeah. I think Peter Moffett, as we've
• 8:24
  said a million times, is the definition of a safe pair of
• 8:27
  fans. Yeah, he can bring in the
• 8:29
  production and tick all the boxes.
• 8:32
  Yeah, but you're not going to get that short of mist or there
• 8:35
  almost from below, but not quite enough to make him scary.
• 8:39
  But sort of mid Shorty enough so you can see all the wrinkles in
• 8:42
  his enormous bloated. Yeah, terribly.
• 8:45
  Yeah, I just say, yeah, it's like.
• 8:47
  Shooting the Daleks, they're always best directed from below,
• 8:51
  sort of looking up. So they're looking powerful and
• 8:54
  dangerous. And you could do that with
• 8:57
  Mestor. And you do get those, those high
• 9:00
  shots sort of looking over his shoulder and down so that you've
• 9:04
  got an impression that he is is big and powerful, but there's
• 9:07
  not enough of it. I'm picked full of dry ice.
• 9:09
  Get the lights down. So you've just got the
• 9:11
  silhouette, maybe glowing eyes, something like that, Yeah.
• 9:15
  But as well, I I do think Moffett can position his actors
• 9:20
  so he can frame a scene. Yes.
• 9:22
  And he casts well, and he casts very well that.
• 9:26
  That's maybe his biggest strength, you know, is the
• 9:28
  casting symbols. I love here.
• 9:32
  The Doctor, in a minute when he's he's going off to his other
• 9:34
  place, trying to think through the plan.
• 9:37
  Yes, we know yet, do we? All we know is that the planets
• 9:40
  are going to be realigned. We don't know why.
• 9:43
  No and. Also like that, Colin's Doctor
• 9:49
  is different to how Peter Davidson would have done this.
• 9:53
  Peter Davidson would not have sat on the top of that table
• 9:56
  cross legged thinking about this.
• 9:58
  He'd have been up and striding hands in pockets, pacing
• 10:01
  backwards and forwards. Whereas Colin is quite still,
• 10:03
  but he's doing something that is completely different.
• 10:09
  I also feel like Jason Thompson is now in the story saying, no,
• 10:12
  no, physics were completely wrong.
• 10:16
  There must be a mastermind behind this terrible science.
• 10:23
  Oh look, those little boys working on their speaking spells
• 10:28
  get a minute, You know, when he gets the egg from the hatchery
• 10:30
  and there's clearly some dreadful bit of polystyrene and
• 10:33
  he's like, I'm going to try and cut my way through?
• 10:35
  Oh no, it's Rock Hardy. You could win that egg on Blue
• 10:40
  Peter, could you there? Was a competition.
• 10:44
  To win that egg signed by the cast, I entered that
• 10:48
  competition. You didn't win.
• 10:50
  No. Well, the one that lit up.
• 10:52
  That one. Yeah, I think it was that one.
• 10:56
  Oh, it would have sported the magic when you realise how cheap
• 10:58
  it all was. Oh, look, here we go.
• 11:00
  I dread to think what there's in those bottles.
• 11:02
  Well, we know, don't we? It's the acid.
• 11:04
  Well, yeah, it just looks like piss.
• 11:10
  Highly appropriate, given the story we're watching while a
• 11:14
  load of piss. But again, this reminds me of
• 11:18
  Tom in Robot, where he's the Doctor is constantly in
• 11:24
  different angles and lying down and lounging around because it's
• 11:29
  different to the what the previous Doctor would have done.
• 11:32
  So it's a reaction against it. I can quite confidently tell you
• 11:35
  as well, given that was a massive shot on his crotch, that
• 11:39
  Colin hangs to the right. I never want to think about
• 11:43
  that, about any daughter. Who.
• 11:45
  Do you know what, though? He's got this sort of bubble
• 11:47
  butt, Colin, he's got a big butt.
• 11:49
  And they squeeze him in those trousers all the time.
• 11:51
  I mean, it doesn't ruin my enjoyment at all.
• 11:56
  That's right, Colin. I'm still coming for you, baby.
• 12:01
  But what? Not this set.
• 12:02
  This feels like we're in other Now don't it?
• 12:04
  With all these eggs. Yes.
• 12:06
  And that bit of set behind Colin, we see that a lot that's
• 12:09
  in Resurrection of the Daleks, that's all over the place.
• 12:12
  Those sort of panels, I used to have my glass milk bottles
• 12:19
  delivered in crates very similar to that, you know, So I talked
• 12:24
  to that's. The Starliner we talked to that
• 12:27
  bubble wrap they're using the things at the time.
• 12:29
  Absolutely, as they should. I do like the fact that it's
• 12:35
  about halfway through this episode.
• 12:37
  So we're about halfway through now that we realise the extent
• 12:41
  of what Mesdal's plan is, yeah? Exactly.
• 12:44
  And the doctor is working it out, and he's using a process of
• 12:47
  elimination, and he's working how these things sort of come
• 12:54
  together, and he's piercing it together as the audience is.
• 12:59
  It's not like he's he knows exactly what's going on.
• 13:01
  He's he's seeing this room methodically.
• 13:05
  It's it's the same as, like, I don't know, it's like the pirate
• 13:07
  planet. It it it introduces all the
• 13:09
  ideas. And then it's at the 11th hour
• 13:12
  where you realise the next planet they're going to gobble
• 13:14
  up is the Earth, you know? Yeah, I like that.
• 13:18
  I don't like having everything spelled out from the beginning.
• 13:21
  No. They were designed to withstand
• 13:25
  an exploding sun. His colonisation is of the
• 13:30
  universe. There's not many true storage
• 13:34
  nowhere. The entire universe is a threat.
• 13:37
  It seems a very unlikely that the entire universe is a threat
• 13:41
  here, but you know it is his her story, you know.
• 13:45
  Exactly. It's like, yeah, I suppose it's
• 13:47
  like the crinod poi, the crinoid pods arriving in places and
• 13:53
  taking over all the vegetation that the slugs will banned.
• 13:56
  And destroy everything. And at least he doesn't result
• 13:59
  to salting them to death. He does try for acid in his
• 14:04
  face. Yeah, yes.
• 14:07
  That's maybe a little misjudged. We'll we'll take a slug in out
• 14:11
  in the garden. We'll pour some hydrochloric
• 14:13
  acid over it and see what happens.
• 14:16
  And all that happened was children everywhere would play
• 14:19
  with hydrochloric acid and nuking their slug.
• 14:22
  Actually, that is a bit I'll judged, isn't it?
• 14:24
  That they might just. Throw acid in someone's face is
• 14:27
  is generally not not. It's frowned upon a bit, I
• 14:31
  think. Eric Saywood, What were you
• 14:33
  thinking? There was a spate of acid
• 14:36
  attacks after, you know that line of missiles just said, you
• 14:42
  know, when I reached the end of a hamster blood penknife and
• 14:46
  have covered every single story I had to say.
• 14:50
  Now you know everything. Ham fam oh drac.
• 15:00
  Oh, do you know where he had a boyfriend at home?
• 15:03
  Did he? Yeah.
• 15:04
  His name was Drunk Rack and Rock.
• 15:09
  There's better names than the Fat One and the Thin One Well.
• 15:12
  Yes. Oh, look at Hugo Lang now.
• 15:17
  Action hero muscles bulging shirt.
• 15:20
  It's a bit Captain Jack, don't he?
• 15:21
  With the braces. Yeah, ahead of his time, but
• 15:25
  actually that was quite 1983. There were lots of bands who
• 15:28
  were looking like that. So something like the Joe Boxers
• 15:31
  and things like that were were in that kind of uniform, the
• 15:35
  sort of Skinhead uniform particularly.
• 15:37
  So did you see that Jose there where he went?
• 15:41
  Such a nice girl, Hope I'll see her again.
• 15:44
  And Asma goes, oh, you will, doctor.
• 15:46
  And then they walk off and you shot him something.
• 15:49
  And like, you do know you're going to confront the villain
• 15:51
  right as they amiably walk the corridors together?
• 15:58
  But they've turned the lights down here.
• 16:00
  You realise what the threat was in this side, don't you?
• 16:03
  That those twins were in the TARDIS at the end.
• 16:06
  We could have had a whole season with Perry and the Twins.
• 16:09
  Perry, the Twins and and. Yep, Hugo Lange.
• 16:14
  Big finish. It could still happen.
• 16:17
  Doctor, this truly is the revelation of the Daleks.
• 16:23
  Oh man. No, no.
• 16:24
  OK, I don't like the acid, but I do love this scene.
• 16:27
  Yep. It's Colin's first big
• 16:31
  confrontation and he's very good at it.
• 16:34
  Let's talk goes you really are mad.
• 16:37
  And then Colin goes watch it. My store.
• 16:44
  Yes, sorry. You do well to warn him.
• 16:50
  I've been threatened by experts. You know Star Log is gold.
• 16:56
  Oh, he's going to force field. Don't worry, he's got a backup
• 17:03
  poll of acid just in case. I suppose it is a bit of a
• 17:09
  mission statement though that he's willing to kill, isn't it?
• 17:12
  Yeah, and like you say, maybe it.
• 17:15
  I doubt the production team actually thought about a Dark
• 17:19
  universe and needing a darker Dr. to deal with it, but you can
• 17:24
  definitely read that into it. It's worth remembering as well
• 17:28
  the Doctor did have the idea to use the Hexachromite gas in
• 17:32
  Warriors. The Yeah.
• 17:32
  And. And that's Davidson.
• 17:34
  Exactly. So it's not the people that
• 17:37
  suggest that Colin Baker is the the violent sort of killing
• 17:42
  thug. And what exactly?
• 17:44
  And you can you can count the number of times Peter Davison's
• 17:50
  Doctor picks up a gun. He goes to shoot Davros.
• 17:53
  Yeah, I like that scene, though. I do like that scene.
• 17:56
  I like that scene because it feels so out of character for
• 18:01
  that Doctor. I'm so sorry every line.
• 18:04
  Indigestion, Indigestion. Or is it just bad news?
• 18:09
  With his hands wobbling up in the air.
• 18:12
  But like the Doctor stroke, Colin Baker is under no
• 18:17
  illusion. You know that this is a man in a
• 18:19
  costume. He's just acting as if he's like
• 18:22
  an evil alien monster Is So this is what you need to do in Doctor
• 18:26
  Who. Play it for real.
• 18:27
  Yeah, well, you you get the sense that Peter Davison would
• 18:31
  have been faintly embarrassed by all of this.
• 18:34
  Whereas Colin is just, Oh my God, I'm the Doctor and wow,
• 18:39
  let's go for it. Go on, tell me.
• 18:41
  My blood will boil like a raging stream.
• 18:45
  I'll beg to die, will I? Because in my time I've been
• 18:49
  threatened by experts, I don't rate you very highly at all.
• 18:57
  Who's. Those are Tom lines.
• 18:59
  Those are those are the flippant things that Tom would have,
• 19:03
  would have said, Oh my God, did you hear that I tire?
• 19:06
  Or the disadvantages of my own being what?
• 19:08
  Don't blame me. I'm frequently tired of the
• 19:14
  disadvantages of mine. Oh Christ, sigh.
• 19:19
  You take over my mind. Perhaps you would like me to
• 19:25
  demonstrate indeed. Oh no, I.
• 19:30
  Don't know. And what's weird is that he
• 19:33
  shows you how you do it. This is how you do possession,
• 19:36
  quite subtly. And the lip syncing is great.
• 19:41
  It's. Really great, isn't it?
• 19:45
  And that's what you need a veteran actor for.
• 19:47
  That's where the whole idea of Mestor seems a bit ghoulish now.
• 19:51
  Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
• 19:53
  And then they do the double whammy because obviously he
• 19:56
  throws the acid in his face and we get one of many face meltings
• 20:00
  in this era. Oh yeah.
• 20:02
  Oh, lots of green slime. I hate the bit where we cut to
• 20:06
  Mestor, you know, and his nose melting, starts flying out of
• 20:10
  his nostrils. As a kid, I've really loved all
• 20:16
  of those, particularly when there was green goo and there
• 20:19
  was lots of green goo in this in this season and the season
• 20:23
  before. Did any of this bother you, like
• 20:24
  him for killing my store? Did I bother you?
• 20:27
  I don't remember it. That's why does he not then?
• 20:31
  I don't remember it being a problem at the time.
• 20:33
  Again, is a lot of hindsight because it's just Doctor Who.
• 20:38
  And in backside, you know what you see.
• 20:40
  Wait till we see my store sort of melting a bit, yeah.
• 20:44
  Yep, this smoke. Oh, there we go.
• 20:45
  Oh, it's horrible, isn't? It imagine if that's how he
• 20:47
  looked all the way through with just that dunk coming in
• 20:50
  everywhere, because there should have been slime around him.
• 20:55
  Finally, he's got some fucking dry ice around him to obscure
• 20:58
  the costume a bit. Oh, I love this bit.
• 21:05
  Oh, there is the obsession with regeneration in this, yes, but
• 21:09
  here it it makes perfect sense. So now we know what the Doctor's
• 21:14
  going to look like when he runs out alive.
• 21:16
  So sort of black. Wibbly wibbly black.
• 21:19
  If they just made it gold, then it would fit with everything.
• 21:26
  Puss Face As a child, I just liked those bits that were a bit
• 21:31
  yucky. As an adult, I like Hugo Lang's
• 21:34
  arms with a bit of blood. You know it's still sex and he's
• 21:42
  not over pumped up, which is always.
• 21:44
  Sort of slimmish, yeah. Very athletic without, sort of,
• 21:51
  yeah. Without, yeah.
• 21:53
  Sorry, please take us back to this lovely scene between It's
• 21:58
  beautifully played and Colin is so lovely and he And again, he
• 22:04
  does get moments like this and I always think The end of Attack
• 22:08
  of the Cybermen is a nice one, even though maybe it's not quite
• 22:12
  so justified. Why is that that bit of remorse
• 22:17
  and that bit of sadness at how things have gone?
• 22:20
  The end of Revelation of the Daleks, where he says to Orsini,
• 22:23
  is there anything I can do for you?
• 22:25
  Yeah, that's gorgeous, that moment.
• 22:29
  So it's those quiet, still moments again, You see.
• 22:31
  It's that that juxtaposition of his character, that he's so loud
• 22:37
  and brash, but he's capable of this sadness and melancholy and
• 22:43
  beautiful quiet moments as well. And then he will immediately go
• 22:46
  and be blustering and big and loud again.
• 22:49
  But look at that. That smile is absolutely
• 22:52
  charming between them. He dies in his arms and then he
• 22:56
  just goes, oh, I smell, you know, and that little smile as
• 23:02
  he remembers the happy times, that's.
• 23:06
  And I like the idea that he can go from 100 right down to see it
• 23:10
  like he's gone. We should have had more of that.
• 23:13
  I think we should have had more of the softer side of him like
• 23:16
  that. And he's still sort of holding.
• 23:18
  He's still sort of standing up upright and holding him in, you
• 23:21
  know, quite a blunt way. But he's been very sweet.
• 23:27
  Oh no. Just like those two guards on
• 23:30
  those sidemen are stuck in the TARDIS steel from the Davidson
• 23:33
  era and the Suntaren. A couple of Jacondans in there
• 23:37
  now as well. You go land, guys, are said.
• 23:45
  Shut up. I love his yellow digital watch
• 23:52
  as well. We are doing hitchhikers, all
• 23:55
  right. Oh, doesn't you call it Camelot?
• 24:01
  Recite to the Chamberlain. I remember you.
• 24:03
  You're the Chamberlain. That's right, Sir.
• 24:04
  I don't like you. It's funny.
• 24:09
  It's fun. It is.
• 24:12
  And, you know, maybe if it had been played up as a bit more of
• 24:15
  a comedy. Yeah, that the books might have
• 24:18
  succeeded more. OK, he still look.
• 24:21
  He still grabs Perry in the dark there.
• 24:24
  Oh, and then she smiles at him. So it's all starting to form,
• 24:28
  yeah? And.
• 24:30
  And I love the fact they have their final bitch fight in the
• 24:32
  TARDIS. But he fights back and he says
• 24:36
  no, look, don't judge me. Get to know me AM IA Good man,
• 24:42
  Perry. Yes.
• 24:44
  I think it's better than that, though it's more subtle.
• 24:47
  Because what is it you might find?
• 24:49
  I'm not as disappointed as you think as you think, and that
• 24:52
  little smile between them is is really nice.
• 24:55
  Well, she, she should have just had one line in there saying,
• 24:58
  all right, but you try and kill me again and I'm off.
• 25:00
  All right, she goes, oh, just give.
• 25:04
  You know what? We're going to go to one planet
• 25:05
  where I can fire a few guns at you just for revenge.
• 25:12
  It's worth saying as well, you know that Colin and Nicola on
• 25:15
  Big Finish, with all those years of friendship behind them, the
• 25:18
  chemistry they bring to those audios, Yeah, is good.
• 25:22
  They might be my favorite now we've lost Maggie Stables.
• 25:26
  That might be my favorite Doctor companion whenever I see them
• 25:30
  coming up on another set. And I know there's some coming
• 25:32
  up next year and show run by Jack Rayner as well.
• 25:35
  Yes, my favorite. It's gonna be great.
• 25:40
  Look at this Perry and Hugo Lang, yes.
• 25:43
  Bit of, bit of, yeah. Honestly, she goes.
• 25:47
  Can't you just grab me in the darkness for a second?
• 25:49
  Please go on, Snog. You go, go with them.
• 25:53
  Go with them. No, it's just going to be the
• 25:56
  master of Jaconda. It's better than being a police
• 25:58
  officer. That's true.
• 26:01
  It's about as realistic as Stephen being leader of the
• 26:04
  Savages planet it is, yeah. Where she's screaming at him.
• 26:10
  You know you're having enough with Jeff Fitz.
• 26:12
  Fitz. He just gives her a look like oh
• 26:14
  which is not already and I suggest.
• 26:21
  I'm not only from another culture, but another planet.
• 26:25
  I am, in your terms, an alien. It's a good point that.
• 26:29
  Yeah, it's it's, it's Tom, isn't it?
• 26:33
  It's. Yeah, yeah, I was on the verge
• 26:38
  of becoming neurotic, he said. Oh boy, oh boy, yeah.
• 26:45
  Do you know what if, if this has been scripted like this in
• 26:48
  episodes one and two? I think, yeah.
• 26:51
  I think it's those early episodes that did the damage.
• 26:55
  I am the Doctor, whether you like it or not.
• 27:01
  Well, do you like it or do you not?
• 27:05
  I've been talking about the Doctor now.
• 27:08
  Do you know what? He's not my all time favourite
• 27:14
  but I love him. He is my all time favourite.
• 27:19
  You know that though and you know and like you said Colin
• 27:23
  Baker was was magnificent. He's was so good and as I again
• 27:28
  said before, I met him the following year and he was just
• 27:32
  the most wonderful wonderful man with a with a shy 10 year old
• 27:37
  geek like me. He took his time and he gave
• 27:41
  lots of time to me and chatted away like if I was the most
• 27:45
  important person in the world that day.
• 27:47
  So I cannot fault him at all. And I wouldn't have got that
• 27:52
  with Peter Davison, I suspect, or Jon Pertwee or or whoever.
• 27:56
  I hear Davidson can be a bit of an ass at these conventions, you
• 27:59
  know? Yeah, maybe you wouldn't have
• 28:01
  been with a child. The doctor is prices are
• 28:04
  rocketed, you know? Yeah, yeah, £40 at the BFI.
• 28:08
  Look at that. Jesus Christ.
• 28:10
  That's what I say. I met him for £10 and a copy of
• 28:14
  Spare Parts, You know that'll do.
• 28:17
  Well, so you know what, Regardless of your sort of
• 28:20
  feeling to that, I think we had a lot of fun talking about it
• 28:24
  today. Oh, didn't we just?
• 28:26
  I It's such a There's so many things that are nearly there and
• 28:36
  with more care that could have worked.
• 28:41
  It doesn't quite come off, but the fundamentals are OK.
• 28:49
  I'm not going to say they're brilliant because it's not a
• 28:51
  brilliant story. It was never going to be a
• 28:53
  brilliant story. The premise is not particularly
• 29:00
  great, but when they hit it right, it it works.
• 29:07
  And Colin is giving this everything and he doesn't get
• 29:12
  enough kudos for for that energy.
• 29:15
  He is. So I'm like I said just a moment
• 29:18
  ago, it's like I'm the Doctor, Wow, I am.
• 29:21
  I can't believe this. He is the happiest man in TV at
• 29:25
  this point and he's he's just coming in and loving what he's
• 29:30
  doing and I think that that really shows and I don't think a
• 29:35
  lot of the viewers in 1984 maybe got that.
• 29:40
  I think there are things they they got got really wrong and I
• 29:44
  think those early scenes in episode one were enough to put
• 29:48
  off a whole generation of kids who and the costume I think was
• 29:55
  was enough. Those two things together just
• 30:00
  put off all the 8 year olds who should have been there for the
• 30:03
  duration who had been there through Peter Davison.
• 30:07
  And I know this because everyone on my table at school talked
• 30:10
  about it the next day and that, but that wasn't coming from
• 30:12
  necessarily from me, that was coming from everyone.
• 30:15
  It was what everyone talked about the next day, you know, so
• 30:20
  and then that stopped. I I'm.
• 30:23
  Probably going to be harder on this than you now then, because
• 30:25
  I think there are some shocking lapses of judgement that lots of
• 30:29
  you watching out. The attempted murder of Perry,
• 30:37
  that weird laughter singing at the beginning.
• 30:39
  But you say the costume. The fact that there's no money
• 30:42
  left in the Kitty to bring this to life.
• 30:44
  Choosing a safe director instead of a dynamic one.
• 30:47
  Bringing in a inexperienced Doctor Who riser.
• 30:51
  Whether they're experiencing television norms.
• 30:54
  You know, it is almost like a a series of laps, yeah.
• 30:58
  And it's like, like I said, it's they're just so complacent
• 31:03
  behind the scenes that it sometimes sort of takes your
• 31:08
  breath away thinking about all of this.
• 31:10
  And when you put all of that together, it's amazing anything
• 31:14
  actually got to the screen at all.
• 31:17
  And it is almost like a a. Whatever we make, 7 million
• 31:21
  people will watch it. And at this point, that is true.
• 31:25
  It's not true. But I will, I will say, like,
• 31:30
  you know, I have gotten over myself.
• 31:32
  I have gotten to a point where I can go back and enjoy things
• 31:36
  that have been roasted in the past and just the the the
• 31:41
  lightness of the plot. The absurdity of it, the
• 31:44
  silliness of it, the melodramaticness of it, the
• 31:47
  campness of it, all of that appeals to me.
• 31:51
  So I can certainly watch this as a terrible piece of television.
• 31:56
  Yeah. And we we.
• 31:57
  Entertained a lot, Yeah. We didn't even mention Malcolm
• 32:02
  Clarke's farting music all the way through, which really
• 32:05
  detracts from any kind of what just detracts from everything.
• 32:12
  That doesn't help either. The worst is that fit for this
• 32:15
  story? The gastrophob music works out.
• 32:20
  Yeah, you know, and you can trust that with the music for
• 32:27
  Castro Valva. Yeah, you know, which is is
• 32:31
  gentle and beautiful and melodic.
• 32:33
  And I know that's more maybe a reflection of the story, but if
• 32:36
  you've got someone who again was working with the production
• 32:41
  rather than another thing that is pulling it in another
• 32:44
  direction, then we might have been better off.
• 32:47
  Because Michael Clark is. When he's good, he's excellent.
• 32:50
  I mean, you look at enlightenment or earth shock, he
• 32:52
  works there. But when his music is confined
• 32:55
  with cheap visuals, it just all feels worse it.
• 33:00
  Feels like a movie. Yeah, exactly.
• 33:03
  But if you've got Peter Howell scoring this, then that would
• 33:08
  have made it almost instantly better.
• 33:11
  Yeah, yeah, there would. There would have been a style to
• 33:13
  it or a layer of style to it that isn't there.
• 33:16
  Yes, I feel like Castro Falva and The Twin Dilemma both end
• 33:23
  the stories on a positive note of life.
• 33:25
  Yes, with the new Doctor. Smiling and Leicester, we're off
• 33:29
  on an adventure. Castro Alba, however, was a
• 33:32
  poetic, lyrical story which ended with the doctor besting
• 33:37
  his. All time villain and going off
• 33:40
  with his friends and saying let's have fun.
• 33:42
  Fin Dilemma has featured the Doctor trying to kill Perry, and
• 33:44
  they're still having slagging matches in the TARDIS and she's
• 33:48
  still not sure about it. And you're leaving the viewers
• 33:53
  for the next nine months unsure of the new Doctor.
• 33:58
  And that's not it's not clever. No, and I'm because if they're
• 34:02
  not sure, they might not come back.
• 34:05
  I like that and Simon a lot, but I am going to make an argument
• 34:09
  that I don't think that's where the season should have started
• 34:13
  for a lot of reasons. So I think the downfall of the
• 34:16
  era continues. It might start revenge some
• 34:20
  virus, actually, that's interesting.
• 34:25
  But that's for another time. But now?
• 34:28
  We have quiet. I mean, it's gonna be easy for
• 34:31
  me, but three fabulous things to recommend the Twin dilemma.
• 34:36
  OK. Number one, I'm going to go for
• 34:40
  the very, very obvious that it's Colin.
• 34:42
  Baker. Oh, you bastard.
• 34:45
  I knew. I knew that would be your.
• 34:48
  But it's obvious he he's here, he's seizing this show.
• 34:53
  He's absolutely in love with being the Doctor.
• 34:58
  This is the part he's always wanted.
• 35:00
  He's ready for it. He's going to show what he can
• 35:03
  do. The script might not be the best
• 35:07
  script, but he is seizing every single opportunity that the
• 35:10
  script is giving him and is making it work somehow.
• 35:15
  If he's asked to strangle his companion, he'll do it because
• 35:17
  it's in the script. He'll he'll he'll do it.
• 35:22
  But I forget how athletic he is as well.
• 35:26
  And those scenes of him jumping over sofas and jump, running
• 35:29
  into the room and things like that.
• 35:31
  It's not something you see from the Sith Dr. going forward, but
• 35:34
  I like that. Damn it.
• 35:38
  Of course I'll start there. Fine, then I'm going to say do
• 35:43
  you. So was your first thing.
• 35:44
  Colin Baker? Yes, the actor.
• 35:47
  Then I'm my first thing is going to be the 6th Doctor, the
• 35:50
  character. Oh, OK.
• 35:52
  Because I think it was a. Bold and brilliant idea to have
• 36:00
  him start in such a disadvantageous position and to
• 36:04
  unpeel the layers and make him more likable.
• 36:06
  I don't think that was a bad idea.
• 36:09
  I think they may be pushed the the attempted murder is too
• 36:12
  extreme. But the idea of making him
• 36:13
  unlikable and then getting to know him and falling in love
• 36:17
  with him, I think that's a a good idea after episode 2.
• 36:24
  I think he's just brilliant. And that's my 6th Doctor that I
• 36:28
  love, who's got an acid tongue, who's very, very funny, who's
• 36:33
  morally outright, who confronts the villains, you know, who's a
• 36:38
  bit snarky with his companions and his friends, but he loves
• 36:41
  them anyway. And if they're in danger, he's
• 36:44
  very anxious about it, you know. So those two things obviously
• 36:49
  Colin Baker and the 6th Doctor. That's my Doctor Who.
• 36:54
  So that's my first one, the 6th Doctor.
• 36:58
  Welcome to the world, 6th Doctor.
• 37:02
  OK, well, I'm going to say Maurice Denham because he gives
• 37:08
  this this silly script a bit of gravitas.
• 37:12
  He you can see him looking after the twins.
• 37:15
  You can see the character being gradually unpeeled, as I said
• 37:20
  before, from being portrayed as the villain kidnapping the twins
• 37:26
  to being ultimately noble and self sacrificing and he just
• 37:31
  gives it so much dignity. I think it's a really lovely
• 37:35
  performance. And those scenes of him and
• 37:38
  Colin, where Colin with the Doctor relaxes and they speak
• 37:43
  together as old friends, You can sense there is a long friendship
• 37:47
  there. And I think that's really nicely
• 37:49
  done in a story that the characterization isn't the most
• 37:53
  sophisticated. I think actually that's really
• 37:55
  nice. I'm going to say Kevin Mcnally's
• 38:00
  Hugo Lang, who is a very likable character.
• 38:04
  Yep. Who should have hung around
• 38:06
  longer? He's sexy as fuck.
• 38:11
  Really, really pretty man. And like, also feel like Kevin
• 38:16
  Mcnally's continuing celebration of having been a part of classic
• 38:21
  Doctor Who, even though he knows it's a story that nobody likes.
• 38:26
  So both Hugo Lang, who I think would have been a fine addition
• 38:31
  to the next season, and Kevin McNally, definitely OK and my
• 38:37
  third choice. I'm going to say the models.
• 38:41
  We don't get a lot of them, but they're all really nicely done,
• 38:44
  beautifully filmed and really well realised.
• 38:47
  And sometimes you just need to celebrate when things actually
• 38:49
  go right. Shooting the models on film
• 38:52
  again, aren't they? They take so long, yeah.
• 38:55
  And this, Yeah. And this year I think they're
• 38:57
  all on. All the model shots that they do
• 38:59
  are on film and it it really pays off.
• 39:03
  It's sort of like they're back on Saturday night field.
• 39:05
  Oh no, that's next season. Oh, shut up, Joe.
• 39:08
  But then my last thing, and I may shock you a little bit with
• 39:11
  this is, is that it's all the fault of the script editor, Eric
• 39:16
  Saywood. No, Eric Saywood is my choice.
• 39:21
  He had creative control of the show at this point, technically
• 39:25
  as a script editor as far as I know.
• 39:30
  From the info text and the commentary and other sources,
• 39:34
  the large bulk of episode one and two are the work of Anthony
• 39:38
  Stephen, and the large bulk of episodes three and four are Eric
• 39:42
  Saywood's work. Things improve immeasurably in
• 39:46
  episode 3. It's suddenly quite a witty
• 39:49
  story. The character dynamics are
• 39:52
  working better the plot which is absurd.
• 39:56
  It emerges, you know, suddenly the story's on a much firmer
• 40:00
  footing and I'm wondering if in his latter years he is finally
• 40:06
  learning how to sort of sculpt Doctor Who.
• 40:10
  I think as an overview, no he he wants it to be a violent,
• 40:15
  miserable experience with sort of gun runners and assassins
• 40:20
  taking the limelight whilst the dog's a little bit embarrassed
• 40:23
  to the side. But the nuts and bolts of it, I
• 40:26
  think maybe he's getting a handle on it now.
• 40:30
  I I think he delivers his best script in season 22, Country
• 40:34
  Mile. But episode three and four, The
• 40:37
  Twin dilemma. I had glorious fun watching
• 40:39
  those of you today. Yeah, I did too earlier this
• 40:42
  morning in preparation for this. So yeah, I've people rat him a
• 40:48
  lot on hamster, so maybe it's worth occasionally shining a
• 40:52
  positive light in his. Absolutely.
• 40:55
  So, yeah, so yeah. We've got to answer all Fraser's
• 41:00
  questions. Oh, bugger it.
• 41:02
  Go on. So quickly I can give you a a
• 41:04
  snog Marry trapped up to the ankles on snail fluids.
• 41:09
  Jacondam Bird Person Bird Perry from Varos or the Birdman of
• 41:15
  Alcatraz. We'll snog the bird Perry.
• 41:22
  We will marry The fella from Alcatraz and will love in Shine,
• 41:29
  Shove in Slime, the Jacondon. Yes, see, I think we covered
• 41:34
  most of his other questions. Why is Peter, David Colin
• 41:37
  Baker's coat better than Peter Davidson's?
• 41:40
  We did see. Didn't I say it was?
• 41:42
  Contrary. Would the story have been better
• 41:45
  at the start of season 22 than at the end of season 21?
• 41:49
  I think we did that. Is Kevin McNally the best person
• 41:52
  who's come back and been better in the new series?
• 41:56
  Oh, bet is an interesting word. Amazing.
• 41:59
  Similarly amazing, I would say. And yes.
• 42:02
  Oh, there we go. Oh, thank you, Fraser.
• 42:04
  Thank. You, Fraser.
• 42:05
  As always, we covered all your points beforehand.
• 42:09
  Psy, I'd like to take you on a wild series of adventures next.
• 42:15
  OK, life on Earth can be an adventure too.
• 42:21
  I've heard this. Do you know what number
• 42:25
  Bannerman Rd. we're heading to? Oh my God, yes I do.
• 42:31
  And I can't think of what it is. It's unlucky for some.
• 42:36
  Oh, you're gonna have to tell me 13.
• 42:38
  Oh, thirteen, Of course it is. Oh my goodness.
• 42:42
  I and I are heading off into series one of The Sarah Jane
• 42:46
  Adventures. I can't wait.
• 42:49
  Some people consider that to be the best season.
• 42:52
  I'm not sure I do. I think it's got one of my
• 42:55
  favourite Sarah Jane adventures in it.
• 43:00
  Does it feature Jane Asher by any chance?
• 43:03
  Actually, it's not that one. No, don't tell me.
• 43:06
  I'm intrigued, OK? Although the one with Jane Asher
• 43:10
  is pretty fucking fantastic. Meant who said I was meant to
• 43:15
  die? So we're officially inviting you
• 43:20
  on to our series of adventures with Sarah Jane Smith in
• 43:24
  Bannerman Rd. I can't wait.
• 43:26
  I'm very excited. I love that series.
• 43:30
  But for now, a hearty thank you from me to you for not only
• 43:34
  continuing to do commentaries double the length of the stories
• 43:38
  we're talking about Just being a fabulous person, contributor and
• 43:47
  supporter of this podcast. Well, you know what?
• 43:52
  I love it. I really do.
• 43:54
  And I wouldn't do it if it wasn't you, Joe.
• 43:56
  So it's a very special thing. You know, you can hit me up with
• 44:01
  a story the day before and say let's do the whatever and that,
• 44:05
  you know I'll be there. No, we did it for the archive
• 44:07
  space and for this didn't. We we did it.
• 44:09
  Well, yeah. Well, I chose one.
• 44:11
  You chose one. So 24 hours notice.
• 44:15
  And the two of our best. SO, Jesus.
• 44:20
  Well, through all this loving Come on, let's go and have sex.
• 44:22
  I'm going to put it there.