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Paru Radia: How to Live Life on Your Own Terms · The Bold Lounge

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Foundry Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Peter Justin Podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to go everyone at the bold point.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Get ready.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Today I have Paru Radia and I'm very excited.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: She's known as the C-Suite Whisperer.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to let her introduce herself and we're going to talk about her bold journey.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Peru.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Lee.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: I am excited to hear about your journey, but I'd love for you to introduce yourself to the listeners.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, listeners.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paru Radia, as Lee said.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have been nicknamed the C-Suite Whisperer, which I found really funny at the beginning.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: What it means is that I help C-Suite executives, men and women, hear themselves and have everyone hear them.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I see things they don't see, I hear things they don't hear, and I know it sounds really woo-woo.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean it to be, but I tend to read between the lines and translate people's intentions into words.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I help them with clarity and it gets results.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a little bit about it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit like executive coaching, but on steroids.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's almost like silent strategy at times, in the sense of only you can see it, you can hear it.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we need a little bit more woo-woo in the C-suite.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm all right with it feeling like that for sure.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So along your route, like of being strategic and doing the things that you're doing now and helping organizations and individuals kind of be the best that they can be, you've had some bold moments.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering what your definition of bold looks like.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So my definition of bold is doing something that is outside your regular MO that really scares you and could potentially have very negative consequences, but you do them anyway for a bigger cause, whether the bigger cause is for yourself or for a larger group of people.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about your life, and I bet you've had maybe multiples of those, when's the first time you remember being bold?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking that just before we started recording, and the first minor funny one that came to my mind is when I basically told my mom I wasn't going to do something, I was like five years old, and I knew that it was definitely not a good move, but I did it anyway.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um forward, it's actually not far off.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in a very, very, very, very traditional conservative Indian household in the UK, and it's like we froze in time.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like India progressed, but anyone who um my parents came to England via Africa, but they froze in time in like the 40s or the 70s.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And as a grown adult, I feel like we were I was still needing to, for my own sanity or safety, to be honest, abiding by old-fashioned rules.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I was actually so when I grew up, I wasn't, it wasn't the dumb thing for a single female to ever leave home.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was um actually forbidden from going to a university far away and I had to live at home, which is funny because my friends were allowed and they had a similar upbringing to me, but mine was specifically strict.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm talking actually, it was just before my 30th birthday, and that's pretty old to be living with your parents.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to do it, but it was the dumb thing because I was single.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I went on this personal development course and we dug a lot up, and it needed conversations with our family to get closure on certain things.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember calling home.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually the first time I'm sharing this publicly, and I'm quite nervous.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember calling home and having a conversation with my parents.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: My dad thought I had become I had joined a cult and I'd been brainwashed.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Funny looking back, but he didn't find it funny at the time.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't even realize until my dad actually showed up at the event.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: He figured out where I was because I hadn't shared it.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: He did some investigative work from my phone call, and within an hour and a half, within an hour and a half, he was at the venue.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he was actually trying to manhandle me out the venue and tell me that I've been brainwashed and speaking my mind isn't the dumb thing, and it's all wrong, and I'm never gonna end up where I'm meant to end up, and I'm meant to be married with kids, and it was a lot of emotional baggage, it was a lot of um, there was a lot of pressure to conform.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And there were a lot of threats about what my life could look like or would look like and what I would be unable to do.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I was financially tied to my family, so it's not as if I could just leave.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the bold moment was I actually said no.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And there was like an audience of a hundred people watching this.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of pressure, and there's a lot of pressure on with the family saying, Dad's not well, if anything happens to him, it will be your fault.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna have a heart attack, he's got blood pressure, you need to just come home, we'll sort it out, just do it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew at that moment, like let's say my life was between zero and ten on any kind of scale, my life was at a say three or four.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that had I listened to him, or if I was about to listen to him, my life would go down to a zero in terms of control, in terms of mental well-being, in terms of emotional well-being, or even worse, or if I said no, it could still go down to a zero, but there was a slight chance that I had the opportunity for it to go to a five or a six and eventually take it to a seven or an eight, if not eventually to a ten.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And with the with the threat of my father's health and disobeying a direct order and humiliating the family and going against the culture and tradition and having an audience there, there was a lot of pressure.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I I said no.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did it anyway.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, in the sense of like boldness, well, that's one of the boldest things I've heard.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it defined you, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it was not only defining you, but that's a defining moment in your life.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And one that's so much there's so much emotion in that, there's so much pressure in the sense of like, do I do the right thing?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to hurt anyone, but I have to choose me here.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's what that's what I'm hearing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's you know, you respect your parents, you love your parents, you you you don't want any harm to come to anyone, uh especially your family.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you had to choose you in that moment, and that is one of the boldest things that anyone can do.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the sense of that, you you you take into the sense the culture and the things that are being said, and you know, and and then having an audience of people watching it on top of that.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So in the sense of that, like just such a moment for you.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: But what happened once you made that decision?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Once you kind of stepped like in it in the moment is a lot of pressure, almost probably like to make a diamond, you know, like there's so much pressure that you could make a diamond out of that moment.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and so, what does what does it look like after you do that?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because my guess is it wasn't something like, oh, it's a rainbow over here.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: You probably had to dig pretty hard because it was almost, I'm assuming, a startover.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what it was?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was, and it wasn't overnight, and so although it was really hard to say no, it was all the pressure that came after that once they had time to think about what I had said and they thought I'd go for it, but so I stayed overnight and finished the Sunday and got home really late on the Sunday.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone was asleep when I got home, and then on Monday, I was so scared.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea what was going to happen.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: My dad has a temper, and I had no idea.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'd never pushed, no one had ever pushed him that far.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really, really there was a massive unknown of what's going to happen next.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's taken years, actually.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: It took days, weeks, months, etc.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: But for me to be able to voice what I liked, what I didn't like, let's have a conversation.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't use my temper much at all.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I was there trying to have real conversations, but it was so far from what they could comprehend in their world that those conversations didn't go very far.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried so many simple ways of explaining it to them.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: More insults were thrown my way, more guilt was thrown my way, more threats were thrown my way of what they would cut me off for, etc.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to pick my battles in order to win the war.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: That cliche about win lose a battle to win a war.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had to lose some battles, but I had a bigger picture in mind of not just who I wanted to be, but just the just the space to allow myself to explore who I could be.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been told my entire life who I was going to be, and that I had to be married and I had to have children and I had to live in London, and they would go, they were choosing my husband for me, and I didn't want that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted, I am ambitious, I am driven, and I wanted to explore that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I do find people fascinating.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to work in an area that would allow me to do that, which I do today.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: That there was so much going on, Lee.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that happened for this tug of war continued for a couple of years.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember in then, so I'm going to tell you my next bold moment, but in February 2007.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this incident I'm telling you about happened, I think, around 2005-ish, early 2005, if I'm not mistaken, or late 2004.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And by February 2007, not much had shifted.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the pressure was on to still be the version they wanted me to be and do what they wanted me to do.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I had for a few years, I had a project in New York with my company where I was flying in every few weeks or every couple of months.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the life, the person I was able to be in New York was so much different.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was so highly respected at work.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was given so much responsibility on very high-profile, high-impact projects, and I was treated like a grown-up.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: But at home, I was treated very differently, and there was so much disparity between who I was at home versus who I really was.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the person that showed up at work was who I really was, which is funny because most people show up as themselves at home and not themselves at work.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was the other way around.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: In February, literally overnight on a trip to New York, and when I was leaving, I remember being really sad, and it was like my, I don't know, 20th trip to New York in two years.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember literally deciding as I was packing my bag the night before my flight that I'm gonna move to New York because I love the version I'm able to be.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm able to be me.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you can in New York, you can do anything, you can be anyone.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I needed that platform, I needed that space because figuring it out is hard enough, but figuring it out when you've got all the pressure to be a different version, you're so distracted pushing against that, that you can't, you don't have the bandwidth, the brain space to see what you could be.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember coming home and I actually got the Lonely Planet Guide to New York the morning I was leaving, or the uh around then.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember getting a day flight home on purpose because I didn't want the red eye where I would sleep and forget.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to process my thoughts.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I intentionally booked a day flight.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember being on the plane reading the Lonely Planet Guide to New York, and I was on my way back to London, and one of the crew members who was really friendly said, excuse me, Miss, don't mean mean don't mean to be funny.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Shouldn't you have been reading that on the other flight on the flight to New York?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the first time I declared to him and the universe that I was moving.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm reading it because I'm moving to New York.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Oh my god, that's amazing.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: When?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, uh, summer.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, that's great.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, uh, get a job with my current company, but in the New York office.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, great, doing what?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, uh, something different to what I do now.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, that's awesome.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: That started the chain of events because then I got home and I made the announcement that by summer I'm moving to New York.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they thought I was crazy.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, it's not happening, you're just saying it, you would never do that.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I told everyone at work I was moving and I was going to look for a job.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Fast forward, I did find a job in New York with my company in the New York office.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I got the job, they sponsored my visa, I packed my bags and got a one-way ticket.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: For someone who's never left home, not even for university, moving country wasn't a small deal.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And on top of it, the family pressure started, and they said, if you leave, we're cutting you off.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Mentally, emotionally, financially, financially.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do not ever come home.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do not call us.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just it's not happening.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And before that, it was you're not going, you're not going, you're not going.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I had to choose me.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't argue with them, I didn't shout.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just took a really deep breath and smiled as kindly as I could and very quietly just said, I am.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I just kept packing.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then when the day came to go, I I literally left.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I I had my suitcases, I went to Heathrow, I boarded the plane, I landed in New York, and that was almost 16 years ago.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you in a way you've been back, but you didn't look back, right?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Never in that sense.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you said something being able to explore who you could be.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And in the environment you were in, you wouldn't have had that opportunity.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: You were seeing glimpses of it, right?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: In your 20 trips to New York.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, this is how it could be.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a five, a six, a seven, an eight.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I know if I stay, it'll be three or under, right?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: In the sense of like the happy scale or the feeling aligned scale or whatever scale you would you would use.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you chose you, you kind of, you know, the shot across the bow moment was in 2004 to 2005, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm not going to just do what you say, but I'm going to concede in certain moments.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it was kind of like that's when the spark started, it sounded like.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then it became a fire by 2007.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that conversation on the plane actually was cooking and putting things fast-forwarded into space, right?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I now said it out loud, and I I really like what I said, right?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: In that way.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you needed that space to explore who you could be.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the hardest things for people, I think, potentially to do.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think it's, I mean, you did something that's bold from a family perspective, a personal perspective, a professional perspective?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many layers of bold here.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we need three hours to talk.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it's hard for people to, I think they know something's there.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like they have that gut feeling, like, this isn't making me happy.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't where I find joy.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: This doesn't feel like it's what I'm supposed to be doing, but they keep doing it.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: What was different for you?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, I have to do something different.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I don't think it was a defining moment.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was a bunch of people pleasing that just got to a point where I thought, oh, it'll be okay.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, oh, it'll be okay in a week, it'll be okay in a month, it'll be okay when this happens, when that happens.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And every time one of those things happened, it wasn't okay.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it got to a point where Lee, I just couldn't do it anymore.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just you weren't okay with it not being okay, right?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think that's what happens.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people, there's people that live their lives not being okay, knowing they're not okay, but they continue doing it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing I just I try to help people with is to see the opportunity.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I bet you do this in the organizations that you work in, and that's some of the C-sweet whispering that you do, is that like they don't even see it, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it's happening, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or they don't even hear it, but you know, it's possible.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a gift, you know, a gift that you not only have like deep inside you, like it's in you, it's part of you, it's part of your DNA, but like it's a gift now that you're actually helping individuals and organizations actually see the opportunity, see the strategy, see the way to do something that seems probably impossible, right?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: You said it so well.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's exactly that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like my life has been a perfect storm of incidents, many very painful, many difficult ones, many restricted experiences, and also moments of joy and epiphanies that has brought me to a place where not only have I had realizations and learned how to make shifts, but I'm now able to do that for other people.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what I do on a professional level, on a personal level.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I help you see who you are, I help you see who you want to be or could be, and then I help you with the tactics and the strategies and even scripts sometimes to get exactly what it is you're looking for and what you want.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you help people with courage too.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like they have it in them, but they just need that nudge, or they just need to see the part, you know, the possibility or the way that it could be different.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the one thing that your journey also, you know, as others are listening, you didn't have to do it overnight.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't have to do this big leap.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you you need you know, you lost some battles to win the war.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like you knew you couldn't, like if you would have left in 2004, five and came to New York, it wouldn't have worked out the way that it did now, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I see it a lot like the vision that keeps coming to mind right now is have you seen Short Shank Redemption?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So he plays nice, he's got his cell, he does his thing, he builds relationships.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: All the while he's built this tunnel to freedom.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like that's what I was doing.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was testing the waters, I was figuring out what time does what time do the lights go out, what time do the guards pass?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what's my avenue to get there?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, going back to something you said courage, I do help with courage, but for courage comes clarity, and I help people become clear on exactly how they feel and what they want.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I work with a lot of people who say, Oh, I want this, I want this, I want that.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I work with them, like, are you sure?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you just think you want that?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I challenge them.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they realize that they're saying they don't want A, they want B.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we work together, they realize that C is actually an option and they want that more than anything they've ever wanted before.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then I help them get there.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: They don't even know C is an option, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Some people don't even know C exists, let alone have it be an option.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very, very true.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't know that was even possible.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, that's too big, or that's not even me, or and then I think through your conversations with them, they realize one, it is a possibility.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's incredible.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good another thing, I think, in the sense of like your gift, your experiences, the messiness of our lives actually helps others, right?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I think.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so no one's life is perfect, even though it may look like that on the outside, there's things that happen on the inside and people's experience that no one would know, right?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you know, through being able one to share your journey and share what you did, it's not easy.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So in that sense, it is an honor to hear your story, but I think also it is it's going to inspire someone today who's sitting there going, I don't want to have a three life, I want a five, six, seven, eight, nine life, you know, in a sense of the scale.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you went through some things in there that not only being thoughtful and almost tactical in a way of like, how do I do this and when do I do it and when is enough?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can handle it until like this fork in the road sometimes when I work with people like where's your fork in the road?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like what's your decision, you know, that you're going to, you know, what's your rubric for that decision at that point in time?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like saying I'm doing it.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So once you made that shift and you moved to New York and you were cut off from your family, how did it like how did you kind of keep going?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm sure some days were harder than others.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And did you ever think, I need to go back?
• 21:59
  unknown: Like
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I need to I need to undo what I did.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I had given myself, and this is really important, listeners, I had given myself permission for that to be an option.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a failure if you had to go back or wanted to go back.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: At least I tried.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: So and was it hard?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because someone from London happened to be there and she got in touch and she was like, it was such a weird conversation.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, ooh, ooh, I want to know something.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like I come from a very gossipy community.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, oh, I really want to know something.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what's so bad that made you run away.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was blown because I didn't, I didn't run away.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I came to New York.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's a difference.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I left London, but it wasn't me running away from something.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was me going to something.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was me going to a place where I knew I I'd be happier, at least for a while.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I went to a place where I could, I had the freedom to make my own choices.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And little things like I really wanted to discover.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, do I dress conservatively because I have to, or because I want to?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know that about myself.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: So sure, I hit the bars and the clubs wearing very skimpy outfits and realized, oh, you know what?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is I think I'm gonna go back to dressing conservatively.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was like rather than an expectation for my culture.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or it was like, do I not drink or not drink much because I'm not meant to, or because I don't like it?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sound out for a couple of years I really did like it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: I said I'm not talking being drunk, I'm talking about enjoying a glass of wine with my friends.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or little things like that.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's I mean, I know that sounds minor, but it really wasn't like drinking clothes.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Am I not friends with these kinds of people because that's frowned upon in my community, or because I don't find them interesting?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out I find them very interesting.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to be friends with them.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's discovery.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so in the sense of like you didn't even like this was kind of a moment for you, like to discover what were your true likes and dislikes and who you truly were and exploring who you truly are, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that evolves even now, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the exercises I have for my clients, and it's called a discovery exercise.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know them on a deep level.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: What do you like?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: What don't you like?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: What motivates you, what triggers you, what inspires you, what makes you laugh, what makes you cry.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know all those things.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what's really fascinating is that when I work with my clients, most of them don't know the answers.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes them a while to complete that exercise.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I give them that for homework.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they come back, all of them, all of them have had their own epiphanies just by being held accountable to do that homework.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: To answer what what seems like a really simple question, yeah, and it's hard.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like even when we do it to ourselves sometimes, like, you know, I know nothing magical happens at the beginning of the year, but I I do love that, you know, the end of one year to the beginning of another.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it for me, it's a reset time.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what's important was like one of the things I asked some of the folks I work with is when did you have the most fun in 2022?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was a hard question for people to answer.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there were so many times they couldn't think of it, but it was hard.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, the other questions were like, what was a lesson learned, or what is something that you want to leave behind or take with you?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those types of things.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it just doesn't kind of roll off.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you just need a little time to think, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not something you can do right off, but it like you said, they wouldn't have probably even thought about it without the question being asked.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like, what do you really like to do and where do you find joy in?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think joy is the word I hear over and over and over now.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a bad thing.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad we're hearing it.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you know, people don't even know.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do I really like going out late at night?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or did I just do that because all my friends did, or did I just do it because my parents told me not to?
• 25:51
  unknown: Right.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I translated that to a professional arena, which is about their jobs.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you like about the job?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: What don't you like?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: What do you like about the people?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: What don't you like?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing I do for them, because it's hard to do for yourself, is I spot patterns and then I challenge them and say, Do you realize you do this a lot?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you realize that you've always done this when this has happened?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And most of them have like, oh my god, you're right.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Okay, so how do we use that moving forward?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: How do we own that?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: How do we look for opportunities where we're not running away or where we're moving towards something?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or how do we get so clear that we make it a statement and say to our the people in the interview that that's not a good fit for me?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna save us both from time.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: So getting to know yourself on that level stops you dancing around other people's wants and needs and helps you focus on you.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you begin to own, I think, what's yours, and then you realize what isn't, right?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, in your story, there were a lot of things, and I think we all could probably say this about our parents, that they actually own, like, I thought I had to fix it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, earlier on, and you know, I had to educate or help my parents think differently or you know, do something different so they realized it was possible.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as I got older, I realized like there was no amount of talking or educating, you know, in air quotes that was gonna change that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to realize that I don't own that anymore.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's probably happened in different levels.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm using my parents as an example, but I think in organizations it can happen too, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: As you're going through different roles and responsibilities and trying to fix things, or you know, I consider myself a fixer, like a lot of stuff I think that I had a lot of stress and actually became burnt out and extremely unhealthy and still working to get healthier from my job was that I took on things that really weren't mine to own.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's something that happens on a regular basis?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, so much.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've given this next analogy I'm about to share with you to so many of my clients.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people do feel like it is their job to fix things.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: However, if you want to help someone grow and learn, sometimes you need to give them an opportunity to figure out the answer rather than give them the answer.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, if you have a child and you keep saying, Don't touch that, honey, it's hot, don't touch that darling, it's hot, don't touch that, it's hot.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you need to let them get burnt and be on standby with the aloe vera and the cold water and the ice problem.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't, don't have it, don't be so responsible that they end up in the ER.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: But they need to know that, oh, that is hot.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mental note to self, I won't do that again.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how they learn.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I personally feel, and you you've got to take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt, or rather, use it in an appropriate scenario.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't flippantly use it all the time.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes you're doing the other people a favor by not helping them.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't always have to fix everyone and everything.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let them learn.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's their journey.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Be there to support them if they need you to or want you to, but you don't have to do it for them.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Let let them understand what the consequences are and feel the burn.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then they won't do it again.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes we we take on things that aren't even ours to fix, right?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: They're not.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not our responsibility all the time.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I call that the mantle of responsibility.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just something that came out of things that have happened in my life and things that have happened where I just wanted to keep everyone safe, keep everyone together, keep everything, you know, in in ship shape and everyone happy and smiling.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens is like you're actually by doing all of that, one, it's not your job.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Two, you're probably taking a lot of energy away from yourself and even understanding who the heck you are and what why you're even here.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're actually in times missing the point.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has everyone has different objectives, and you fixing it is getting the objective you want or the objective you think they want.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: What if they don't want that?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: What if that isn't their end objective?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: I like I like being curious about people, and I encourage all my clients to be curious about their team and their higher-ups, their bosses, the board, the CEO.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and if I'm working with a CEO, I'm I encourage the CEOs to to figure out what other people want to.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Some they might not have the same goal.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's good to get that clarity.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to get that out, whether it's a business conversation or a personal conversation or a professional conversation.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I uh the conversation needs to happen.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: As we close out, I think one of the things I just want people to hear from you is kind of when they're in that space, in that place where they realize a change is needed.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's the first thing they can do?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what when change is needed for themselves.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for their situation, to have that gut check of like it this isn't a fit, whether it's their role or the relationship, or maybe just where they are, like, you know, I want to be in a different space mentally or physically or emotionally.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the first thing they can do?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Rather than if you're at A rather than go to B, I would go to Z.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Z for the UK listeners.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's the end objective?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: What outcome are you looking for?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: And once you're at Z, what does Y look like to get to Z?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: What does X look like to get to Y?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: What does W look like to get there?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So just ask yourself that question.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like what does Z look like?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then the steps preceding that.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: But also, why do you want Z?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's the biggest question.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I can't ask that until you tell me what, then I can ask why.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: But why do you want it?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because most people will.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll give you a quick example.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: For ages, I had my eye on this five million dollar condo across the street from where I live, and I have no business or had no business even contemplating a five million dollar condo in Manhattan.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would anyone do that?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or why would I do that?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I was looking at it thinking, I want that, I want that, I want that.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, well, hold on a minute, Paru.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I drink my own Kool-Aid.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I asked myself, why?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I want that?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what would you do once you have it?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's also a very important question to me.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was once I've got that condo, I would feel safe.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would travel the world helping people and exploring cultures.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then I cracked up laughing, thinking, well, I don't need a condo to do that.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I can help people now.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can travel the world now.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that was such a release for me, rather than the burden and the pressure of got to do this job to earn the money to get that five million dollar condo.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do I?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do I really?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I really need is to feel safe.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: What I really want is to travel and help people.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Those three things can be got so many other ways.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I now have all three of those things.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't have the condo, but I bet you that condo is coming.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no doubt.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's an important piece though.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think if we get in our careers, like, okay, I have to go from VP to senior VP to chief to whatever it may be.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then like it's sometimes, I don't think, at least I'm just speaking of me, like it was just a constant ambition cycle of like I have to do the next thing.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I have to get on a board.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember asking someone in over the last month, I said, Well, what does it mean for you to be on a board?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then it took a little bit of time to think about it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Do you need to be on a for-profit to do that?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, actually no.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it's like it was just that pause of thought, which sometimes we just get very focused and we don't actually work on what we really want.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're working on what we thought we wanted or what we think someone else wanted.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I ask that all the time.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever someone says, I'll say, tell me where you want to be, I will help you get there.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: But my first question is always, why do you want to be there?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then the goalpost very often changes when they start working with me.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they are so much happier, often richer in so many ways, not just money.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: It you see the joy in their face, you see the confidence they have because they're being who they wanted to be versus who they thought they wanted to be.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: But they have to like pause for just five minutes to think about it, right?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes we just get so focused into what we want or what we think we want that we don't really work on what we truly need or even aspire to be.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So very, very important pieces and parts.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I have just enjoyed our conversation so much.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to share all the information below in the episode notes of for folks to reach out to Peru and her services and some exciting things that she's doing this year.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: So please take a look before and thank you so much for being a guest on the Bold Lounge.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Lee.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability and taking the lead.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: You will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact on it.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: By highlighting these stories,