Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 122: Damon Mclean, From Jamaican Triple Jump Star to Sales Leader

Transcript

122: Damon Mclean, From Jamaican Triple Jump Star to Sales Leader · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You arrive and you go from the top of your class, the top of your country, to suddenly having to strive again.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: What was that experience like for you?
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: It was rough at that point in time and probably still is one of the hardest transition.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: So if you think about that, where you're coming in and totally I'm from rural Jamaica, right, so I'm not, you know, used to a bunch of this stuff so I'm coming in and it's a total culture shock.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I'm in a new country.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: At that point it was my second or third time in America, so I'm in a new country.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I'm also in the cold.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: I don't do with snow.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: So if you've seen Cool Runnings, it's like a Jamaican in the snow.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: So weather-wise I'm out of my elements.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Now I'm around people that I'm just like well, what is happening here?
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: And so just that transition alone, like anyone going to a new country, would be hard.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Anyone going to a new climate would be hard.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you see this a lot.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: It's like wow, we're kind of starting over.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Damon, welcome to the show.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Great to have you on here today.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, ryan, my pleasure.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Now this is good the beautiful thing I know we're just chatting about, actually just chatting about Riverside, and the beauty of this as a platform to record.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I always love the fact that I get to have these conversations with athletes former athletes around the world, so thanks for taking time out of your evening to make this happen.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you were saying that, but folks I know I'm based out of Georgia in America right now, so some would say halfway around the world, yes that's it.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Well, one day I know that I always keep trying to get out and travel a bit more, but we may have to do this again in person.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: As I pass through the US, I'll get you out to Sydney.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, totally.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Well, look, damon, we are going to step in, chat a bit about your career, but really focusing on that transition and how you set yourself up for sort of where you are today.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: For those who don't know you, please introduce yourself name, where you're at, what your business and what you're up to nowadays.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're refining.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: You know you say Damon, but a lot of people I am Jamaican.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: So because I am Jamaican, it's actually Daman.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: So if you say Daman Yaman, so I am from Jamaica, born and bred.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: If you know anything about Jamaica, there's a couple of things that we're known for.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Number one is track and field right Usain Bolt, bob Marley we do love cricket as well and then, obviously, football.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: As I mentioned, I'm currently in Georgia in America, and I work at a tech company, so I do tech sales.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I manage a team of tech sales reps right now, and I've been doing that, I would say, since 2017.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I will talk about what the transition was, why 2017 was the year of the transition, but that's where I'm at today.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I love that, and yes, sorry, I should be saying Damon, not Damon.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: So this is it.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: The Brit in me gets me out in the morning, but well, that's good.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So you're saying you're in Georgia.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, though why are you Westside?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Why are you stateside?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, when you're in Jamaica, we talk about like, what are the options to go to college?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: And so one of the options was to come to America for college, and that was geez, that was 2010.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And I had the opportunity, because of track and field, actually to go to an Ivy League school, and that was an amazing blessing.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: And after college, I stuck around because number one, we talk about what is happening with the facilities and we'll talk about, like, if you're trying to train for a particular sport, do you want to go where the facilities are?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: And one of my events was a long and triple jump, and so it was trying to figure out, like, where are some of the top coaches and where are some of the facilities?
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: And so, after college, I stuck around in America and thereafter, while training, I've still been here.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Nothing has driven me home yet, so we'll see.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Now that's really interesting.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: My family come from St Kitts and so one of the bits that we've seen as I speak to my predominantly cousins as they've grown up and now the little ones is this big shift towards studying over in the US, and so you've got this huge migration that continues to happen and perhaps, like yourself, then staying in the US, not necessarily going back home, but building life and building friendships there.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Have you found that a similar thing with those around you and from where you were born?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I would say yes, right, I think there is.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: It depends on where you are in your career.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of folks who I'll argue I would say 99% of.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: If you're a jumper in Jamaica or field events and you're good at it, you will come to America for college.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: We're just starting to get some good field events.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: For the most part, we were a sprinting country, and so if you're a sprinter, you stayed in Jamaica, you went to the college in Jamaica, you stayed with the coaches there, but if you were a field event person, you would have left, and so I would say yes, and even it is a very small country, right?
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So we're three and a half million people, a little bit bigger than St Kitts, and so one of the things there is that we only have two colleges, and so the option to move, when you start to think about, like, even the idea of working at startups wasn't a thing in Jamaica 10 years ago, and so having more option is one of the things that people have been starting to look for.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: With the age of social media and the globalization, you start to see that there's more options.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: People are chasing more options.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I will even tell you, people are starting to say, hey, I might want to go to England, I might want to go to Australia.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: People are starting to look at where else can I go for college if I'm looking at I want to be a dentist or I want to do something specialized.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: They're starting to think about different countries and we give thanks for globalization there.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of friends who are not only in America, in Canada, people that went to London for sure as well.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: That's in itself.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I find that fascinating because I know as I've traveled the world, moved around, sport has helped me to do that.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: But you start seeing more and more people travel for education, for, like here, sporting or business work opportunities, and then start to settle and that in itself brings through this whole new culture.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: So maybe that's something we'll step into.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: But you know, I'm curious now.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: You know, let's go back to you then.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Growing up, you're talking about sports for you.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: So what was that like for you back home growing up?
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: What sort of activities were you getting involved in?
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I would say everything.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Right, it's um, I played cricket, I played football.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I was actually a goalkeeper.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: The joke, I think I was a better goalkeeper than I was at track.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed those sports, right, like there's something about being a part of a team that really gels you and you can work towards something.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: And then, obviously, obviously, right, I grew up.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I would say Usain Bolt was probably two to three years ahead of me, couple years ahead of me, and so you would see these people and you're like, wow, like I want to be amongst these people, like you're inspiring.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: So obviously I took up track and field.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I would say every Jamaican tries their hands off that it was fun, it was good, it was fun, it was good, it was fun.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And then the good thing about a country like Jamaica is that, like, if you're good and you're winning it or we call it boys and girls championships right In high school like that means a lot, like it's you know that these people are.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: This is one of the top high school programs in the world, and so if you are able to make the top top five in Jamaica, it means a lot, it means something.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: We might not know why yet, but it means something.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: And so I was one of the few that I was telling someone the other day around the reason I was able to do track and field was because I was able to get some good grades.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: And so getting good grades, I was able to convince my peers like, hey, I want to go do these sports and I want to go focus on that, but for them the grades were what mattered most of all, and then it was almost like the sports was what was like the cherry on top for them.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, so you've kind of answered a bit of that question for me in terms of how important was your academic performance for you in trying to get that balance of sport.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: It sounds like well, as far as your parents were concerned, it was just as, if not more, important than what you were doing on the field.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, I would say.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: For the most part I wouldn't even say that they cared much about the sport.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: It was like, hey, because they're in this mindset, you go to school, you get good grades, you come out, you be a doctor, you be a lawyer, you know, it's totally fine, right?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I think there is a world there where they view it's a good, education is a key to success, like that's their motto and so for them.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I was able to say, luckily, I would say, I was able to perform well and get the good grades and get the A's and, as a result, I was able to like.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: That unlocked me being able to participate in sports, and at any point in time the grades were shifting, they threatened to take away the sports, you know.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like we had the same parents, but you're quite right in terms of that focus.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Now, what's interesting is it just seems to me then, for you that sport was, you said, unlocked.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: And so it's like it unlocked you to be able to go out and just do sport and you could play kind of with freedom.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: What sort of pressure did you feel you had?
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, in fact, before I answer that, ask that question, I should say at what point did you then realize you were good at sport?
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I think you have similar grades to us.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: So I would say, maybe grade somewhere I was probably 14 or so to probably grade eight, grade nine.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: And you're starting to see, wait, like something's starting to happen.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to like come maybe third in a couple of the trap meets.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Whenever we go play football and I'm the goalkeeper, people are saying, well, this goalkeeper actually looks kind of good, or you know, obviously it's like you're the best in your high school and now you're going against other high schools and you're starting to like compete and you start to say, okay, there's something here.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: And one of the things I always tell folks when you're in high school the good thing about the early stage of high school is that every year you grow, like you're just a natural growth spurt, and every year, if you just show up and work hard, you don't have to refine anything.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Hard work typically flows into that.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So I would say going into grade eight to nine is when I was starting to say like, okay, I'm the best at my high school and now I'm going to compete against other high schools and starting to stand out.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: There was an interesting transition moment for me where I was like there is something here, what might it look like?
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Do I truly want it?
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: So that was a transition moment for me where I was like there is something here, what might it look like, do I truly want it?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: So that was a big point for me, that turning point for you.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: What changed then?
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: What did you do differently or think differently about where you could be?
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because, like we talked about, I always had to get the grades right, Like that was always something we had to focus on.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: No-transcript, I was just trying to be a popular kid or whatever.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: And now you start to realize, okay, I have the capacity.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Other people are seeing that there's something more there and they're willing to help me, to put in the work, and so that's when we really start to say like, if I truly do want this and I would say I don't know if that's like one we would say a one of my strong suits but at that age I was really disciplined and I know that if I needed to work out in the mornings, I needed to go do an early morning workout, or if I know I needed to stay extra to get a workout in, or even to do a problem sets or homework, and so if anything else failed, I was really disciplined and I think for a coach, that's what you would really love for someone in high school, right?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: yeah, absolutely.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: You sound like the perfect coachable kid because there was clearly an athletic talent, but you're also achieving the academic grades.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: That means the, the balance, or that struggle it sounds like because of your discipline was well managed throughout this period.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: It does make me think, then.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: So what was the pressure, what that you put on yourself?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: What did you actually then want to be as you were kicking through high school?
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think high school for me eventually became one of the good things.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: As you were kicking through high school, yeah, I think high school for me eventually became one of the good things.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: As we said, like in high school, I have a lot of people left high school to their.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I went to one of the top academic high schools in Jamaica and because of that, I would see people leave to go to America.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: They would do their SATs or GREs and like all those like the ACTs, those exams, and I would say, okay, this is an option and and and the good.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And that's why I always tell folks it's good to have like alumni associations or mentorship program, because I would see people who are three, four years ahead of me that would graduate and then they would come back for, like summer break.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I was like, man, let me tell you like, college in America is amazing.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: And so at a certain point I was like, wow, there is, there's something here, and we talk about that globalization where they would you know some, some schools would come and they would bring brochures and they'd tell like, oh, this is what college is like.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: And so we started to think about like, what is the next stuff?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: And so, in the back of my head I'm still there.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: This idea from my parents is education is the key to success.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: So that's that's always there.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And now you're starting to see like well, people actually go to abroad on scholarships, like this is a thing.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: That's so crazy.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm not yet thinking professional athlete or anything, I'm just saying we have different rungs in Jamaica.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: So you know, you have your boys and girls tramp.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: You have, like our local Carifta in the Caribbean.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: You have World Juniors that's going on and you're like these are things.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: You're looking at the track, like the professional calendar, and you're like, okay, this could be cool.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: So there is this pull to like go to college.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And then there's also this pull to like represent your country, because you know like that's like the thing that you get to do.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Like there's nothing quite like it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: You're seeing that on the TV or you're seeing everyone celebrating.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: You're like that is that becomes now a dream of mine, as I start to think through like what was next?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I mean that's brilliant.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks for taking through that, taking us through that sort of thought process.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And you're quite right, those opportunities start to emerge.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: How did you make a decision as to which path to follow?
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: I would say I followed the money, or lack thereof.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: What I meant by that was the first thought I had was college was always an option.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Right, it wasn't that, unless I was doing something so crazy.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if my parents would have allowed me to not go to college.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Right, I think there is a world where I wouldn't have gone, but I would have had to have been doing Usain Bolt time in high school for them to say listen, this might be a path.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: And so I wasn't there.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I wasn't.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: You know when we look at it.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I was good, but I wasn't.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: And I was still like one of the top triple jumpers in Jamaica at the time.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: But I was like, well, I wasn't top 20 in the world.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: There was nothing to say, just that, like, ok, I'm ready to go pro right out of like as a 16, 18 year old kid.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I wasn't ready to go pro athlete at that point in time.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: So for me it was like OK, college is a must.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And that was to say thanks for my parents.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: They're always saying you know good education.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: And then when I think about that, I was saying I wanted to go to college for free.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And now the option then becomes just for fun, like why not go abroad?
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Right, because I knew it was more of.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I knew what I would get if I went to college in Jamaica.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I have tons of friends who have done it.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Most of them are doctors.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't think that the doctor thing was for me, but most of them went that route.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: So I knew that route.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I didn't know the American road or the going overseas.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And I said the big thing for me is like if I was able to pull this off for free, you know, get some sort of scholarship or get something waived, then why not?
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And so that was where I started thinking about, like, how could I make this happen?
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: A lot of that sounds like it was internal thought.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I suppose I'm curious what guidance did you get from others or anyone?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Did you have people you could sit down with, or was it really just you having to step through it yourself?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I was alone.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I was never alone.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: As I mentioned, there was just one of the things that's underestimated is having folks three to five years ahead of you, as I said, as they graduated, they're coming back and saying, man, this is crazy, this is crazy, or this is awesome, or check this out, think about this.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: And I think that went such a far way of like we had this.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it's a standardized mentorship program, but it's having people who have left, or whether they went to Canada or the US or different spots, and they're saying here's what I did and I would have.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: These are folks I would have seen in high school and said, ok, I know this person could do this.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And you're hearing about additional.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: My coaches are telling me about additional people at different schools being able to do that and we're seeing that as well, right, so we're saying, oh, wow, like I know this person at that other high school that went abroad.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So you're saying, ok, this is possible.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And so you pull up, you go on the Internet and say what's required.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe I need to take the SATs or the ACTs or whatever these entrance exams are, to fill these out.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: But we also need to like reach out to coaches and see what coaches need to see you, because that's the end of the day.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Luckily for us, we had a lot of American coaches.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Do take a pay attention to our like boys and girls championships here.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And then I had the opportunity to go to a Penn Relays one of the years, which was like a big carnival relay carnival in Pennsylvania and I happened to come second there.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So this is like a USA now.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Now I'm not only like a big dog in Jamaica, I'm like in front of the US coaches.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Now I'm not only like a big dog in Jamaica, I'm like in front of the US coaches.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: And so getting that opportunity was also really impactful, because now coaches are saying like, who is this high school kid?
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I need him to come to my college, you know.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, that's kind of cool, right.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: That means you're then, moving, getting out of Jamaica from an athletic competition perspective.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: That landed you on that US scale, which opened the door then for coaches to come to you and actually start making offers more directly, rather than you searching what helped you to pick the college that you went to next.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I would say prestige.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Tell me about that.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I ended up going to Princeton University and, if anyone knows anything right like, there's a few colleges that just stands above the rest in terms of academia, and Princeton was one of them.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And so you know, when Princeton comes knocking, the joke is like who am I to turn down?
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Princeton University, and they were one of the colleges that came knocking, you know.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: But what you said there is interesting.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: You talked about it being a really prestigious academic institution.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: That suggests your priority there was academic, not sporting.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Tell me a bit about that.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: These are one of those things where you look back and you often think because there are other schools that were probably more inclined to track that.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Looking back, einstein, they always say it's 2020, right, I will tell you where my mindset was and because of where I went to high school and the resources I had in my head and this is where I probably didn't have as much guidance In my head I'm saying I'm going to a different country that has way more resources.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: They must know what they're doing and so if I am able to be successful with the resources I have not even having a full on gym, not having like a good sandpit to jump in, like we didn't have.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Like we're running on dirt tracks Wow, like I must be 10 times better, like I don't even need a coach, just give me the good facilities, because what I was banking on was just me being self-driven and being able to do it on my own.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: So something I had to learn later on in my career that like it does take a true network of individuals to make you a successful that no, you see athletes really pushing it.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: It's very rare that someone on their own make it.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it's a regret.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I don't regret going to Princeton University, but it's when I made my decision.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: It was this is a really prestigious school and I'm able to achieve a lot academically.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: But also I thought in my head I was able to accomplish things in terms of I could have accomplished more in my track because, or in my sport, because I had a belief in myself of what I was able to do with giving more resources.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: And we'll talk about, like, how it turned out, you know, at the end of like how was it that I was able to accomplish certain things, both academically and also, you know, athletically, and how it flipped right now to where I'm at today.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I know, and I suppose we keep going down this path because I like how the story's unfolding so well academically and it is hard.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I suppose I'll say there's a little pause here which is, as you said, given where you grew up, the resources and what you saw of the world.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: It is logical to think that prestige is important and probably the brand of the institution is actually so critical because of what that can offer in terms of overall life Forget the sport, but just in terms of overall life, and it is interesting how the brand of the college, the Sporting Association, does have an impact on our decision-making.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: As you went then to Princeton, what did you hope to achieve academically?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for me more of an exploration of one of the things I've come to realize for myself.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: It's art of the possible and so it's like it's pushing the boundary of like listen to things that I think are possible beyond.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: First of all, I tell folks people are like I've had some version of this question multiple times of like did I know?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I ended up graduating with an inorganic chemistry degree.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And then folks are like did you know that's what you wanted?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: No, when I went there and I realized this was something that I was very passionate about, or I was very deeply intrigued and I had very deep curiosity, I was able to be in a place where I could pursue something that I was deeply curious about and walked away.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: One of the things I always tell folks is the main thing I learned from going to a school like that is how to learn, that's about what to learn.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: So I walked away being very knowledgeable about a lot of things, but also like feeling very equipped that I could walk into many different.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Like if you were to put outside of track, if you were to put me in any boardroom in any business, give me 90 days and I would have learned everything that I need to learn to be effective.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the things I walked away there because I was able to really follow and be deeply curious about the things that I wanted.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't think I had like grandiose goals, right.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I often tell folks that like they ask me, like what's my 10 year vision?
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I was like maybe six months.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: It was really cool to be able to like explore things that I'm deeply curious about and be pushed right, because part of the prestige is that now where I'm rubbing shoulders, like everyone that's a valedictorian in their class is showing up to this school and now we're like OK, we now have to like you know, you might think you're the top in your high school, but you come here and you might be the bottom of the class, and so part of it was just like a deeply competitive atmosphere as well.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: You know I like that you arrive and you go from the top of your class, the top of your country, to suddenly having to strive again.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: What was that experience like for you?
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It was rough.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It was at that point in time, and probably still is, one of the hardest transition.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: So if you think about that, where you're coming in and totally I'm from rural Jamaica, right, so I'm not used to a bunch of this stuff so I'm coming in and it's a total culture shock.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I'm in a new country.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: At that point it was my second or third time in America, so I'm in a new country.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I'm also in the cold.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I don't do with snow.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: So if you've seen Cool Runnings, it's like a Jamaican in the snow.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: So weather-wise I'm out of my elements.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Now I'm around people that I'm just like well, what is happening here?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: And so just that transition alone, like anyone going to a new country, it would be hard.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Anyone going to a new climate would be hard.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: And now you're having to.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: It's not like you're it's, I'm sure, like you see this a lot.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: It's like wow, we're kind of starting over because the things that used to bring me comfort may not bring me comfort anymore.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Or I don't have a friend group anymore, or this idea of being a beginner, like I might've been a big shot back home, but now I'm like I have to go build this reputation now.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: You know, now I'm going into the NCAAs where I'm at the bottom of the totem pole and I have to go work hard to get to the top hour, you know, and so there's a lot of these like mechanics that happen, that it's like the first, you know, couple quarters there were really hard and just like just learning, like how to get my groove back, of sort, you know.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thinking about that, what was your athletic transition like going from the, you know, like you said, coming from Jamaica?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: What sort of progression did you start to see as you were stepping into the NCAA championships, start to see as you were stepping into the NCAA championships, and then, finally, what did you then hope to achieve as you were sort of really kicking into college?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say it's the same thing, right?
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: So I would even tell you, man, to start a college 2010,.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I think we have like a 2011 world championship, world championship, and then one would have been 2013.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: And so I'm having my eyes on that, because I'm coming out of being a junior, potentially transitioning to being a senior, and it didn't go as planned.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I think first year, like right now, I have two screws in my left ankle.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: You know, looking back, I'm telling folks that's.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: You know, it was a stress fracture, right, and it's like it really was a lot of stress.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: I wasn't sleeping right For our conference.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: You know, like different colleges have their conference, I was winning our conference, but you know, when we start to go broader NCAAs it didn't really translate to much.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I was really good in my conference, but in a broader context, I wasn't progressing the rate that I would have liked, because in my head I'm like I have this figured out, I could do it, I think not having the progression that I would have liked, and I saw that right.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe I shouldn't have been comparing myself, but there was a lot of folks that I came into college that I was.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: When I match up, I was beating them when I was in high school and I was like, whoa, these people are like progressing way faster than I was.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: What's happening here?
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: So you know, freshman, the first year, I did surgery, had two screws and like took a while to get back.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: The last two years of college I was able to get back into a good spot because it's like still like Jamaican jumping was still, like you know, on the rise.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I was one of those.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I was still top three in Jamaica.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: We still I still have a lot of work to do to get to like the Olympics that was coming up, so couldn't have gone to 2012.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: But there's like lots of work to get to that level where it's like OK, I can make it consistently to like the world championship teams and like the Olympics, you know.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: So not not what I would have thought, which led me afterwards at graduation in 2014, I had like really good decisions to make at that point, you know.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and talk to me about those decisions, what was laid out for you?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so those are a couple of things.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: One, one good thing and when I think about like one of my, my, my most proudest moment was like that was the year of Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, right, so I was able to achieve that one and that was even going into that, those trials, for that it was.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I had just about to graduate and I'm trying to figure out what's next Looking.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, I also have this degree.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm also not a citizen.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: So I was thinking about, okay, I'm just going to go back to Jamaica, like what's next?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: There's all these like thoughts and emotions and, you know, into one of the years where I go back to Jamaica, I go to our trials and I said this is it, this is I'm going for these, these Commonwealth Games.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I was able to make the Commonwealth Games that year and it was just an amazing opportunity.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: And I think, after going to the games and like having stage fright and being in the crowd and, like you know, I'm there and like people, I was like Whoa, what is happening here?
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Like you know, just seeing that, being in that in front of that many people, and seeing some amazing athletes right From from different countries, I was like this is what I want to pursue for the next couple of years.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Like I got to go all out to go make it to the Olympics.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: In two years' time I need to go to Rio.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: So that was like coming out of the games.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: I was like I need to go all in, there's nothing else for me to do here and so that decision going all in.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: What did that mean?
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: What did that look like for you in terms of?
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: lifestyle and support.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I'm a new college graduate.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: It was then starting to decide, okay, because I didn't realize, I didn't feel like I had the progression I wanted.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Now I need to go find a training group, that I'm post-collegiate, I need to find a coach that I can trust, that can help me to take me to this next level.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: And those are some of the things I was thinking through, right, and I was open, I was searching, I was looking at you know, there are some coaches in Brazil, there's coaches in Cuba, there's some coaches in America.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: So I was just really looking around and said, where is it that like I could help me to go to this next level?
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And I was even looking in Jamaica as well, right, and so I was like looking around, there was this coach his name is Dan Paff, just amazing coach, like one of the best coach and even today, like I hold him in such high regards.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: And we had a training group that was compiled of, like, many different people around the world, with some Australians there that were some.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: We had world record holders like we're just people from London the London 2012 long jump gold medal.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: So we had a quality group that we had put together.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: And so now it was like, hey, this is my full-time job where I'm going out, we're getting there to the track at 8.30 in the morning, we're doing our track workout, we take a quick break, we go to the gym and it's's like we're leaving at two and we're like that's, that's my day-to-day, that's like my hardcore day-to-day and so for you during that period.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So you'd made this decision degree to the side, not returning home as such.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: It was full-on two years in this focus financially.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: What was that like for you to sort of make that decision and live that life?
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Man, like we're all following the dream, right?
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that's what a lot of people never realized that it was.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I was talking to a friend earlier who we were going through it At that point.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Financially there was nothing, but I felt the most fulfilled right, and a lot of what that entails is I had a personal training certificate I got you know.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: So I was working at a gym.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: There was sometimes the opportunity to do like food deliveries.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I could do that.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: And then there's some other opportunities for me to do some like quick internships.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Because if you think about it like your, your, your full day is done.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: You're finishing about two to thirty in the afternoon.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Like what are you going to do?
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Like there's no and you need your sleep.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Because you're a full-time athlete, you need to rest, so there's like only a small amount of time for you to do anything and to execute.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: So it was, and you know, even when we started to think about earnings, really trying to get earnings, like we know, for a lot of I didn't have a sponsorship.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I had some folks that was helping me to, like you know, raise some funds, but by far it was like merely just like we're paying the bills, we're paying the bill and, in a sense, we're fully disciplined.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: It was hard and it's looking back.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I remember we had lots of talks around that with our coach of like.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: He was fully aware and was, like you want to be in a place where, you know, as an athlete, you're not worrying about some of that stuff.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: But it was like I wasn't alone.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: We had a lot of other people who were saying, like I'm chasing this dream, right.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: It was like which we always see, right, which is a beautiful thing about the Olympics, where it's like the sacrifices, it's what we love about it, it's the story, it's what we love about it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: It's the story, it's that glory thing that we're searching for, that we will sacrifice anything to get there.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: It was hard financially, but I wouldn't have traded it for the world man because it's like, it's being able to.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I always tell folks very few people understand what it means to sacrifice something for that long period of time and to dedicate something and then like show up to perform at such a high level or, you know, to hit this goal, and so I'm so grateful to having like gone through like those iterations and those cycles yeah, it is definitely grateful is a wonderful experience to dedicate the majority of your day, if not all your day, to something you're passionate about, something that you you know that is part of a dream.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: You've certainly described it there, so at what point did you start to realize something's got to change?
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I can't continue as an athlete in this way yeah, I was the same conversation I was having with my friend.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: The joke was like if you never announce your retirement, do you really?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Are you truly retired?
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: the tree doesn't make a noise if no one's there.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah right so I barely missed out.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: 2016 was was rough.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: It wasn't where it needed to be and I was close, but that's just how it goes sometimes, right like I tried my best, I did everything that I could, I gave it.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I think I gave it an honest well shot and I felt good about my effort and it's like I just couldn't hit that, that qualification standard that year, and a lot of people go through it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you're seeing this even now coming out of these Olympics where, whether even you've gone or I don't know if anyone has a done studies, but it's like the post-Olympic disorder where it's like we're just like what's, what is, what is life?
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, in fact I'm.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I have a lady, uh stassiana, speaking with her about this sort of post-olympic trauma, trauma, sorry, and disorder that that comes from it, and how do you get through that?
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: And so I had folks who went and they're coming back and told me like was, was that it?
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And I'm there thinking, man, like what do you mean?
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Was that it?
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Like I'm down because I didn't go and I'm like what is life?
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Because all your meaning was just wrapped up in this like is either you make it or not.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: And so 2017, I started.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I got injured that year because I was like okay, what are some things I need to?
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: I got injured that year.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: I was trying to work my way back Towards the end of that year.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I was thinking through like not necessarily what's next.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: I started doing some internships.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I started that was like one to two hours.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: At the end of the day that I had, I was like let me go do some internships.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I started having a bit of fear because we also had a couple of folks who were retiring as well, and I would see that at the age of 32, a lot of folks were starting to say, like you know what?
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: That was the age that they're starting to, and so I don't know if it's as good or bad that I had folks similar, if you think about what I mentioned in high school, that it was close to folks that would come back and tell me the story, and so I was close to folks who they're about 30, 32, and they're saying, okay, I've graduated 10 years now I haven't done anything with my degree.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to hang up my spikes.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I had an amazing career, but I don't know what's next.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: And, weirdly enough, something triggered in my brain of, like I don't want to be that person.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I just went and sacrificed a ton to get this amazing degree.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And not that I'm sure I like to say right, I'll just say it may have gone to the Olympics I probably would have been talking differently, but because of that, I was saying do I have another four years?
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: We didn't know that COVID 2020 was going to be a thing, but that was the goal.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Like, do I have another four years?
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: And then 2017, at the end I started thinking about, like, what could be next.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I started to do some internships, starting to give out some like try to apply to certain places, cause.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Then I was like, okay, maybe, maybe, if I work part-time and train part-time, I could make this happen.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: That was the goal going into 2018 season, and 2018 was Gold Coast.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I was like looking forward to Gold Coast, to come back and I tell folks, yeah, it worked for some people but it didn't work for me.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Like, unfortunately, working part-time and training part-time didn't pan out because, you know, work took so much out of me that, like I couldn't put together the training that I wanted.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And I guess then, because it's interesting, because for for you, the motivation to start doing something about the rest of your life, or finding that second wind was seeing people return from Olympics, was seeing people come back, and you, hearing the state that they were in, was then saying to yourself, well, how do I avoid that?
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: And internships, or getting into work.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: So, with these internships, what made you think getting an internship was the right thing to do?
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I always knew about internships and, like I said, like following my curiosity, right, I think one of my other curiosities in college which I didn't get to pan out was like marketing and sales, and so I was like I've always been interested in this, why not Right?
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: And so I was like I've always been interested in this, why not Right?
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: And so I was like what's the best way to do to learn?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Go, like, hit up someone.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: And also, you're paying me to come learn.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Sure, I started listening to the good thing I joke about to folks when I was doing food deliveries is like I could listen to my podcast all day.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: So I was like, let me go listen, I want to learn about startups, let me use this as an opportunity to learn about startups.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And then I would yeah, I started being interested in in startups.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I got an internship there, you know.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: So this is, through podcasts and books or what you know, just just learning a few things whilst you were, whilst you were delivering.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all in my curiosity and like I, mentioned, one of the things I know how to do is how to learn.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I was a deeply curious person, and so because at the end of the day I think you mentioned my degree, so this is the other thing too.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: My degree is in inorganic chemistry.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: In order to do anything that I would have been remotely wanted to do, I would have to go got gotten a PhD, and that's another six years that I was not trying to go back to school.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I love that I had this degree, but what am I going to do with it?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Here are my other interests.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Can I go gain some you know experience in it?
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's what you did right Now.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: The thing that I guess makes me curious is that balance between striving for the next Commonwealth Games Olympic cycle whilst working part-time you said that balance was challenging for you.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: What was the hardest part for you then during that moment?
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I would say so I had moved at that point.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: So we were, our training group was in Phoenix, arizona.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Then I moved to San Francisco and so different weather.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I was also then by myself, so I'd left the training group and this was me trying to balance, saying okay, if I'm working six hours a day, or if I'm working eight hours a day, I could still go train after work, or I could train before work.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: That was I was betting on myself then and that's just.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: It's just not going to be the same number one.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Not being around a group is really hard, like doing it by yourself is really hard, like even though I had coaches that would tell me they weren't there in person.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: So not being in a group was just really hard, because the days when I didn't feel like it it was just me.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I was like what did the group bring you when training together versus when you're doing this by yourself?
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: So, if you think about it, where it's like I'm thinking about, you know, these are medalists from world championships and Olympics and we step on the track and these guys are like just busting your, you are gonna level up.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: You are gonna level up like they're pushing you to be their best, because it's like these are the guys that are meddling.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: If I can stay with them, I know I'm in a good place and these are times and things right, and so there's this natural competitiveness.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: The other thing is just like the joke is one of the persons that I, you know, we used to live like a lot of people live close together.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: It's like our lifestyles are similarly aligned, you know.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: And so we're talking about this stuff.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: We're helping each other unlock certain things.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: It's like I always talk about like being at the high level.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: A lot of it is a lot of problem solving to try and figure out how can we unlock this, or like, what secret do you have?
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Or is there a cue that you use to like unlock certain things for you that I might be able to use?
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Or it's like, hey, help me to understand that.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: And so it was like such a good, like combination of people learning from each other to push each other to the next level.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: And not necessarily that I underestimated that.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I knew I would miss it, but it was more of when you step on that track, when a group are training, it's like everyone's bringing their a-game.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: When it's just you as much as like to push myself every day, like you'd be shocked at how, being around people unlock something in you that you didn't even know was possible yeah, unlocking.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Unlock well, not just competitiveness, but, like you say, you have to level up.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: You want to stay with the group, you want to be part of that culture and it sort of rubs off on you as well, and so you were missing that by trying to do it by yourself.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: And where else did you struggle during that period?
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Many talk about it as you look back, what you know, what else was, was really hard.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I would say I made a conscious choice.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: This was a trade-off that I decided to make because at a certain point, I was getting scared this.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I was now three to four years into this pro life and I was like I see an opportunity to make money that could help me afford some of the experiences that I want.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe I need a new gear or, you know, maybe I could travel to more meets, and so this was a bet that I was taking that like commonwealths are big, but it's also not the world champs or Olympics, and so I was like if I could set up this year, I could get certain things going.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I'm just not resting enough, right, like we all know.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: That's a big thing and what I underestimated at working.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I started working at a startup where you know when you're early days at a startup, you're not working 40 hours a week.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: You're working way more than 40 hours a week.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, how did that then change?
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: How did that start to change your perspective that's?
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: You know this.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Now you're in a startup, you're part of this culture.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: You're growing this as well.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: How did that start to change how you looked at what you wanted to achieve?
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: So one of the things I told myself coming out of when I went to the first Commonwealth Games and then I decided this is what I want.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: One of the ways I told myself coming out of when I went to the first Commonwealth Games and then I decided this is what I want.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: One of the ways I got to that decision was me saying I never, or most of our sports, I don't know, maybe, unless you play golf or certain sports, you can go later in life.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, most of our sports like at a high level there is a maybe 34 is when, like, you really are going to start hitting, you know, going to tap out, yeah.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: And so one of the things I had in the back of my head was would I regret not pursuing this thing full time?
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Would I regret not giving this thing a good go?
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Number one, and then number two.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: You know it's this idea of like would I regret not giving it my all?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: And so it's not just like pursuing it, but like when I get ready to walk away, would I have said like, hey, good job D, you did everything, you got to travel, you did the meets, you lived the lifestyle, and even though you didn't get to the end the effort that you put in, you showed up and you're very process driven and you walked away such a much more better person than you know if you hadn't gone through it.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: And so I will say, especially the first piece was very conscious when I made the decision to go full time.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: When it was the first piece was I never wanted to wake up at 40 and regret not pursuing this dream.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: And then the number one question I asked myself when I was working at the startup, when it was like what is happening is can I confidently say that I had given it my all?
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: And there's always, like we, always, there's always that one jump, there's always that one play, that, always that one kick that you're like, oh, I didn't quite get it.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, yes, and so that's always in the most like, oh, I could have been.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: But you know, when all is said and done, I felt really pleased with myself and the effort that I'd put in and like I didn't walk away, feeling like, yes, there's always more in the tank, but it didn't walk away, feeling like I, I didn't give it my all during the time that I was working.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: And so now I was at face with that decision to be like if I didn't go, if I didn't pursue it, and it was also I underestimated because the Gold Coast one came at a weird time that year, I think it was like March.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: It was like Okay, yeah, it'd been early.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: And typically it's like in August, and so I was also like first, I think I just started the job like four months in and I was like Whoa, like there's a lot of stuff where I was like this kind of threw me off as well, like if this was in August I would have been ready, but in March and so and that was a big one for the year.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: So I was like you know, this might be it, this might be it dude, this might be it.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: So what changed then Once you got to that?
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: So this might be it.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: What changed for you?
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Work-wise for finding out where do you now invest your energy?
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: I end up in sales, and when I joined, I joined at a 10-person startup While I was doing these research.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: There's this goal of like you would hear stories of Uber and Airbnb and how all these startups got started and how the founders had this idea and it became this amazing thing and they worked and it was truly innovative and I was like wow.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Like one thing I talk about with my friends is I was now searching for the next Olympics, and it's like not Olympics as in track is I was now searching for the next Olympics and it's like not Olympics as in track, but like what is the next big thing?
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: What is the next stage?
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: What is the next thing that I'm pursuing?
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Startup provided that and it was I was able to work with a team we're able to like.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: One of the things with sales is also it's the effort you put in oftentimes gives you like the output you want, and so if this directly correlated to like if I show up and I work, if I work 12 hours, there's a possibility that I can get something out of that, and so that was very appealing to me, but I had so much to learn, right, because I was also just I don't know how to write an email.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I don't know about all this stuff, this business speech.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I said there's so much to learn there, but it was an exciting times of starting there.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: The other thing, too, that the fear which like made it excited but like good that I was doing it at that point, was I'm now 33.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: And if I had to retire now to start over, I don't know how that would be If I was just retiring now to start over, to go into an entry-level role.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are doing it right now and I'm like wow.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: My heart because I'm just my ego is like yo, yeah.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's right.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is one of the challenges for athletes coming off.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Even if you're not at the top of your game as an athlete, as you come off, you're still the top athlete.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: You've had that ego, you've had the chance of winning, being there on that global and world stage so well for you.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, even on that, did you get a sense, or to what extent did you felt your ego was bruised as you started coming, you know, full-time into work and you were then a worker bee rather than an athlete?
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: I think the ego part of starting over is always rough.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: The good thing, though, is and this is where I was very excited, because I had something that no one else had Part of my ego was also feeling like I was behind, and so imagine, now I'm about 28 or so 27, you know, 28.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: And all the folks that I'd graduated with, like they're now managers, and like they're four or five, six years out of college, that they understand this stuff, and I'm like all right, I'm starting from zero period in time when I felt that it was to a disadvantage, and it wasn't until I saw that how can I use the transferable skills that I learned from track and field, from being in professional sports, then pull this in here.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Then I realized, wait, this is way more of a positive than it is a negative.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, like knowledge, I can go learn this knowledge, but being going to the Commonwealth Games and in front of crowds of 30, 50,000 people, like most people, would have never have done that before, and so, when I go up to public speak right now, I don't get nervous, like well, most people do, or like I have the mental game to show up inconsistent daily.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Like that goes far more than you know some of the stuff, and so it took a while to make that transition of like whoa, like cause.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I felt like I was behind and now people are coming to me and saying how am I so mature, how am I so calm and collected?
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: And it's because I would have, I have gone through those periods of like, of deep work, or like working on myself, always increasing improving self-awareness, that I'm now able to like the stuff that I learned, like that almost feels like the easy part.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: It's the work on yourself is the hard part.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: From that recognition of skills that you could bring with you from track and field into the workplace.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Where's that taking you to today?
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: How have you started to embed those skills in, I guess guess the sales and marketing environment?
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the big thing is, man, I've been really enjoying coaching and I'm a manager, but I tell folks I'm more of a coach than a manager, right, and so it's this idea and there's lots of studies shown now with Gen Z, and what is it that they want?
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: And they do want direct instructions and coaching, and I view that a lot as the coach that I told you, dan Path, that I was able to come in contact with, and some of the other coaches in my career from Jamaica, was like, this is something that, like, I feel very passionate about, right, and so the ways that it mainly comes out is it's simple, right, like we talk about, like let's talk about track or any other sport.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Like we know we have an angle, that's a championships, we know we have a preseason, we know we have games throughout or meets, and it's like how can we set up to like hit those hebs and flows?
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: And like what does it look like to be on this performance curve and what does it look like to set the base?
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: And so there's a lot of that analogy that I use in my coaching today and, luckily, most people, like, they've played some sports, maybe in high school or something like that and when they show up to me and it's like we are now thinking about what does high performance look like in the work world?
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: What does it look like to sleep right?
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: I'm talking to people about nutrition.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: I'm talking to people about, like making sure their body and mind is right, and then we're talking about like now I've transitioned a lot of those things into like the knowledge working, because people think that they can, just just because you know, like we've got out there and there's run and it doesn't hurt anything.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: But it's like hey, like take a break, cause break is good for you, like rest is good for you, and so incorporating all those things helps me to be a better manager, because now I'm like coming in an entire scope, like I have a basis of experience that most people never have of like what does it mean to be a high performer in the body?
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: What does it mean to like do men or teach?
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I'm teaching them resilience and mental training.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: I'm going there with them because I'm saying how could I develop you as a person to help you to hit your goals?
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: And that's been like one of the things that I'm really excited about now, because, I said, it's taken a while to incorporate those things I had to come into the culture and learn, like business weeks and all that.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: But, man, once I was able to get it like I was off to the races to bring in some of these things, you know that's brilliant that I mean.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's such a great story there of it took something to click on.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Actually, you weren't behind, you just had different experiences, and once it clicked for you and you use the phrase unlocked, but it's like something unlocked in you to recognize the track or your athletic career was extremely relevant in what would now be a business career.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: What was it that opened the lock for you then?
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: What found that moment for you?
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like an interesting thing where I think there was multiple moments, right If I think about one of them, where folks would be like man, like you, just bring different energy, or so.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: The funny thing was when I first started working I would take three naps at three o'clock in the day.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: People are like dude, what are you doing?
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: I'm like man, you don't understand.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Like this is my nap time, like I'm, so I've been doing this for the last four years.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: You can't just take away my nap.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: But I'd be so efficient, cause I'd be up early and I'd be just crushing it and like, take a quick 30 minute nap and then I'm back at it again, you know.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: And so it's like it would keep time and time again of like I would show up with certain clarity, you know.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: Or you know when things are.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: You know, like we're in sales and so we have deals to close and people like, why are you so calm?
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: And because you know, we know, in competitions, when we're nervous, like how do we turn that into?
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Let's go and being able to like emotionally regulate, like those are some of the things I started seeing, like I was getting ahead and there is a different learning curves, right.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: It's just like if you're coaching or if you're learning a new sport, if I was going to take up golf or tennis, I'd have to learn the basics first, right?
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: And I think after I'd learned some of the basics, the lingo and all of that, and now I'm able to.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: It's this people talk about the conscious or the unconscious awareness right.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: So it's like a coach cueing me and I'm like coach, I have to think about that cue every time.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: But there comes a point in time when you're not thinking about the cue and you're just doing it, and I think that's when it happened for me, when it was like how am I incorporating, like I know these things, I know what it means to show up and to be my best selves.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I know how to like emotional regulate.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: I know how to have conversations around performance and not how to give and take feedback.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: When I realized that, as well, as you're an athlete, like you're giving interviews, like you're traveling, like you've done a lot of these things, you've prepared, like you know we're doing contingency planning, we're visualizing, you know, you start to realize like a lot of these things are correlated.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: It's like you in some respects.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: You almost switched off, you almost stopped trying to overthink.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: I'm in a company, I need to do the company, where I need to replicate what everybody else is doing in order to catch up, and you sort of said, for whatever reason it, or gradually it came actually no, this, I operate this way, I take a nap at this time, I work through things in this way, this is how I visualize.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: And then it took, I guess, a level of either confidence or pure stupidity to say, well, let me just do this again.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: And it worked, it just worked.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Believing in yourself, in in that regard, has worked.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: And so, look, I guess I know I've taken up a good chunk of your time and I definitely will.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: You know, we'll certainly keep talking.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: But I guess, in terms, I've taken up a good chunk of your time and I definitely will, you know we'll, we'll, we'll certainly keep talking.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: But I guess, in terms of this conversation, when you, when you think about where you are today, and perhaps with an example of some of the people you're working with and coaching with today, how do you think athletes or individuals can really start to think about applying some of those skills into their day-to-day life and you know and help them prepare for what's next.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the things you know we're talking about before and you hadn't even prompted me but, like I mentioned, I was curious and at that point podcasts was the big thing and it's very simple.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: It's like startups Let me go listen to a podcast.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: There's so much resources right now.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of resources to just think through different things.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: I have a bunch of friends right now who you know.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: They're transitioning athletes and they a friend, one of the things that I do actually with my workers right now in terms of feedback.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: I ask them I say, hey, what are three adjectives you described me?
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Or like if you were to say, like, what are my best known for?
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: And so what you're looking for is like bits of pieces of things of like number one, like what are the things that excites you?
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure there are, even while you're doing track, some people I see when you're doing track, some people are very into, or any sport some people are very interested in, like, maybe the logistics parts of things.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Some people are into the design, some people are into, yeah, the media aspects of things, and so, like, which part in the past two to three years really excites you?
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: And then you start to think is there a job for this?
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: Do people do this and can this be done?
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: And I'd assure you there is.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: I tell people about certain roles and they're like whoa, I didn't even know that was a job.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: So I always think about what is the first part.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: I was following my curiosity and I wasn't even sure I was an attorney recruiter for one point in time.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: I was a headhunter.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I was just doing stuff.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Because I was just like doing stuff, because I was like this is cool, let me see if I'd like it.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: And the good thing about even more so now is like I have these things where I tell folks to do informational interviews.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: You'd be shocked.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I could reach out to you, ryan, and say, hey, man, I love that you're doing a podcast.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in a podcast.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Here's my background.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Do you have 15, 20 minutes?
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: I just want to pick your brain and just get something like that.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: You'd be shocked the amount of people that would say, yeah, I'll offer my time for you, right, so that, I do think, goes a long way as well, because it helps you to figure out is this thing for you, is this the feel?
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: And I tend to tell two to three things to get.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Find two to three people talk to them and just be shocked Like they'd be happy to like introduce you to someone, or something like that.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Those are some of the things I always tell people to start with.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I really do, because what you're talking about there, you know there's some specifics around well, asking people around you to describe you.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: It gives you a sense, then, of how you project yourself and how you interact with others.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Another element there is not being afraid to reach out to people informational interviews, as you said, but reach out to people to pick their brain, to understand a bit about them, their life, how they got to where they're doing information and, like you say, it's not being afraid to go out and try, try different roles.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: I'm sure many will.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: As they check you out on LinkedIn, they'll see the roles that you've tried, you've gone in, you've clearly learned some things, and that gives you, I guess, the confidence to keep going to where you are today.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: And so, look, damon, I know you spoke a bit about what you do in sort of your role today.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: And then one of the last questions I'm interested what is it that makes you successful in your current role?
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think the big things that makes me successful, like my team our company is small is about a hundredfold in some of the startup plan.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: The thing that I've owned, like you kind of mentioned it all slightly.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: It's like over the last five years I've deeply developed my intuition.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: I think athletes have deep intuition, you know.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: It's like an awareness of what's good and what's bad and they can know.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: When I rep, like it's like you're doing a clean and jerk or a clean impression like that.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: That position's off or something like that.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: The thing that I've done a lot on is like, try to develop my decision making and saying, like, what is unique to me and it's the same thing as in, like if you were to watch a play, like watch tape or tape review.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: So I'm constantly thinking about, hey, when I show up tomorrow, what are the different scenarios?
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: I'm doing a lot of scenario planning and thinking about a lot of different things, and so it's a blessing and a curse that I think about multiple permutations of what might happen, but it's helped me to then push the boundaries of innovation.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: I've said what might happen here, what might happen there, or I talk about the art of the possible.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: So when I'm coaching people.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: It's getting them to see that there's this next level or there's this other way of thinking about things.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: But it comes from me sitting down and I still have some of my practices today which I tell folks that every morning.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: It's just like you have your journals like what is the workout for today, and then at the end of the day I'm recapping to say you know, this was the workout, this is what went right, this is what went wrong, and then doing quick feedback, because feedback is always going to be something and so that constant iteration and constantly working towards, like I tell folks, it's still hard for me to plan further in advance, but I know if I show up and I'm like putting in the work every day, who knows how far I can go, you know.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: So look, Daman, thank you for sharing your journey and your insights.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: It's been truly fascinating.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: People are going to want to follow your journey.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: What's the best way to find you and get in contact if someone wants to pick your brain for 15 minutes?
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, please connect with me on linkedin.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: It's damon mclean.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: I have some pineapples there, so I'm typically the guy with pineapples in his profile, so you'll see me there.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Um, and, definitely check it out.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Connect with me, send me a note.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: I'm always happy to connect with folks and jump on a call damon, thank you very much for sharing your journey.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure having you on.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Ryan.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: That's all from me.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Take it easy Until next time.