Latest / The Magic Guys / Is Magic Cool or Cringe? 10 Brutally Honest Debates #216

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Is Magic Cool or Cringe? 10 Brutally Honest Debates #216 · The Magic Guys

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They're guys. They do magic. They are the Magic Guys.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 216 of the Magic Guys.
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To my left, I got Nick Kay.
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That's right, I'm Nick Kay, and joining us this week is Daddy Doug,
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all the way from his new movie series, Hangover 5.
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That's my life lately.
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What's up, y'all? Good to be back. Good to be back. I am suffering from a Las
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Vegas hangover. This is my life now.
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Now you're with us in that it's morning for you as well in America as it is for us in Australia.
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We knew moving to Vegas would get you into the Australian rhythm of time.
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And now you're nocturnal. So this is perfect.
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I'm still adapting. Everyone here is like, don't wake me up before 2 p.m. I'm like, okay.
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You know what i'm excited about i'm excited about the
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idea of being a plus one ordinarily someone is
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always my plus one when i go to events or or have
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tickets to something or whatever it might be there's an
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opportunity that you might actually need a plus two when we come to visit doug
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because like you know josh and i go and be in town and we
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need to figure out what we're gonna do no doubt
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yeah it's it's coming
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up soon my goodness i would be
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happy to go back to the let's talk about matt franco's show
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which i just saw last night here at the link well
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you know what that'll that'll come up perfectly because our episode
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is is magic cool or cringe and you just saw what i would say is one of the pretty
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cool magicians of our time so i think that'll come in pretty well i think great
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to see everyone here live in the chat by the way one of you sent in a speak
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pipe so i thought we would give our audience the floor to begin today's episode.
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With a question on it so we're going to throw it over to aj
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and see what he's up to first off love
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the podcasts listen religiously so thank
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you for that i have 90 seconds here so i'm gonna try to get my
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question out because it's a little bit long-winded but i am
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an avid connoisseur of magic books and
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material i'm constantly learning but with
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that i keep finding myself getting new
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material like constantly and so I'll end
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up performing you know some things for
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a week or two weeks and then I move on and next thing I know I'm you know half
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a year year year and a half later I look back at some notes that I took and
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at tricks that I once performed that are fantastic and I've forgotten them.
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So I guess my question is, how do you dial in material that you know you want
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to consistently perform? Because I'm always...
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Learning more more material trying to
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improve but i'm finding it somewhat detrimental because i'm not i don't have
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like a steadfast repertoire if that makes sense okay so how do you pick kind
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of your staples maybe that's a better way to put it like how do you pick your staples and then.
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Create kind of sets based off of
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that uh anyway thanks again
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love the show appreciate it okay firstly like
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really good thought process that he has there trying to understand that
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like you do set as you perform and so forth can i
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take point on this one fellas right please do
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start yeah because this is kind of just like reminiscent of what i talk about
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in my my bible lecture which stands for basic instructions for being a leading
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entertainer so it's the very first lecture i ever wrote and this is going to
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be a benefit to you so as far as learning stuff all the time by all means do that. I do it myself.
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I'm actually part of a book club where we buy a book every month and we go through the book.
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We just finished doing a Steve Mayhew's book, which I read and skipped through
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a lot of it just because everything was, you produce the four aces and then
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you produce the four aces and then, and I was just like, I don't need any more four ace tricks.
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I know this is great. I know where it comes from. That's great.
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But like, I don't, I don't care for this.
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I don't want to add it to my repertoire or I read through it and I go,
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that's nice that I learned that, but I'm never going to add that to my repertoire.
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So don't feel bad about adding knowledge to your mindset is the first thing I want to say.
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Now, when it comes to what routines you keep in your repertoire,
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I think it comes down to the audience.
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And the audience, if you want to give them the best experience,
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they'll give you that feedback.
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So by all means, test out new material in between doing stuff.
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We call that hammocking, in
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which you'll do a really good routine that you know is very well strong.
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You'll hammock in between that a routine you're working on and then close with
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the routine that you're really, really strong with.
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So by all means, you still have opportunities to try stuff.
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But I think that to long story short, this let your like try stuff,
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learn it, test it on your audience, but let them dictate it.
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Because I think that if you want to give them the best time,
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that's what you want to do.
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Said like a true legend. That was fantastic.
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And the only thing I would sprinkle on top of that is I saw a clip of Ozzy Wynn
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talking to Ben Earle the other day.
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And Ozzy Wynn said it pretty well.
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He's talking about there's a difference between being an entertainer and an artist.
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But in this world, the entertainer is what is going to perform to the masses.
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And he says an entertainer is a professional surveyor.
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They conduct surveys by throwing out lots of different routines and they get
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the results back of which ones the audience like.
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And then that's what they then serve to them.
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So just in a shorter sentence of what Nick's saying, try lots of stuff.
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Just remember the stuff that gets a good reaction.
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Listen to your people. Don't quit playing, though.
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We can always play in the in the sandbox
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right and learn new things but you want to keep that solid 10 routines you know
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however yeah there's there's something to be said right about purely you can't
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purely listen to the audience because we know if we just went out there with you know the five best.
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Gimmicked effects that will slay like
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they will do really well but then we might not
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have any soul after a few years of doing well this is the
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difference between craft and art if
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you do if you're mimicking things you've seen if you're all
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your repertoire is all store-bought magic tricks and you're
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doing the pattern that was in the instructions you're just a
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craftsman or a surveyor right the
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artist is the one who has the unique point of view and develops
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those tricks and the unique presentations and probably changes
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the magic moments to better benefit his
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audience yeah let me show some of the back of that
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because i was jamming with my mentor and good friend who you
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know also doc andrew and we were talking about
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this he's working my residencies are these holy moly's for me now and he was
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showing me this coins across that he does and there was a final phase that he
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did in which he was holding the coins palm up because you had it in a particular
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type of clip that was like super duper angle-y and holding it to like his stomach.
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And it looks so weird to hold his hands in this fashion, especially when he's
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wearing this beautiful suit and looks a million bucks.
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But then he's standing like he's arthritic. It just didn't seem right.
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And gentlemanly now we worked on it, right?
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Now the routine was there, but through different learnings, we ended up polishing
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these routines further and further.
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He ended up calling me the week after we had this jam session and said,
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oh my God, thank you so much for sharing that trick with me.
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If I hadn't experienced that little bit of knowledge, I couldn't have proved
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upon it. So you can always learn stuff and improve on what you already have.
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And once you have it, you don't have to bury it. You don't have to make this
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decision that you never want to do it again.
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Like it's always just going to be stuff that's in your pocket.
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Like, or when I mean that, I mean metaphorically, in the back of your mind,
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when you need it, you do it.
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But yo, that's some good advice. Get some extra eyeballs on the material you're developing.
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Maybe not always a magician, you know, maybe they should be lower down.
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But, you know, you can find a venue to perform this stuff over and over.
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That's your best bet, right? That in the notebook.
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Yeah yeah yeah aj thanks for
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the question my friend please guys send them in the speak pipes the
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link is in the description speakpipe.com forward
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slash the magic guys drop us a line and aj
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just you know try it's so hard as as a
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hobbyist magician even a pro to not get sucked into the
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ever-flowing churn of new effects
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coming out you know that's that's tough but better than
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not doing magic you know so you'll you'll probably some people just
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do that let's not make those people feel lesser it's perfectly
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fine to just do nothing but learn magic your
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whole life you never even have to do a trick you can
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enjoy magic that way it's fine some some
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would say that's probably more like the better way to
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enjoy magic i mean that's the student's approach it's magic
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is the ultimate studious endeavor because
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it's endless right the rabbit hole is so deep
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can i also say at the back of that
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how envious are we as like professionals
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who perform for a living i don't know about you guys
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but i'll speak on my behalf that as professional i so envy
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people who have this opportunity to just constantly be learning stuff like all
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the time like yeah i'm so envious but like as a professional when you've got
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your staples and your reputation makers you've got to make sure that you stay
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on point and that they're always so perfect and you really put the effort into them.
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And it upsets me because I'm,
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trying to stay sharper and sharper, but in the same breath, sort of envious
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of the people who just go, I'm just learning stuff all the time and I perform it.
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And if it's right or wrong, or if it's not perfect, it doesn't matter.
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But it's just like, I envy those guys.
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You're still doing that. You're just finding the moments within the magic you
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already do to improve that.
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And that is so much a part of being a great magician, right?
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You know, am I standing this way or am I standing this way when I do the,
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you know, whatever you're doing? You know what?
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Very good. Yeah, very good point. Because I was pretty jealous of your friend
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Chihan when we were at the assembly convention.
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Isn't he like a really successful lawyer? Is that his profession?
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That's exactly what he is. Yeah. So Chihan Yeo is an amazing cardsmith who by
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day is a property lawyer handling deals that are upwards of hundreds of millions of dollars.
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And then you see him sit down with a pack of cards and he's like, the guy's got hands.
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He has yeah i'm just seeing him i'm just seeing i'm just watching him do second
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deals as we're chatting and i'm like i got no time to effing work on second
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deals like i gotta make sure i can.
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Get to my do my gigs and like you know
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win over this crowd and da da da da and you're
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just here you know making tons of cash not even
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with magic and then you can just enjoy learning good
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magic but to what dog's saying like
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it's really fun doing shows and we'll
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do two shows a night and in each show I'll tweak a different
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way of revealing a thing like for ages I was trying to find the best way to
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reveal the Rubik's Cube to the audience and after so many different little nuanced
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tries I finally found a way where just taking a Rubik's Cube out of a thing
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gets a laugh when that should never have been a moment so those little tweaks are really fun.
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One more. I'm flushing back as we talk about one of my mentors,
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Cellini, and he talked about his first lesson with Slydini.
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Now, imagine you've ponied up a few blocks to go study with the great one, Slydini.
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You're in New York, you go to the studio, and you're ready to learn some Slydini
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magic. Where do we start?
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You know where Slydini started? I remember two things Cellini talked about.
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One of them was this, how to walk onto a stage.
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You know so that was lesson one enter
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the stage how are you how are you doing that
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and then another one was how to accept applause you
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know when people are being generous with their
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you know how do you acknowledge that it wasn't
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how to laugh it wasn't you know how the impasse or any of that it was you know
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professional moments that will make your magic better these are the kind of
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things we can work on plus the tricks so yeah that's so cool that's so cool
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that's yeah even how to you know professionally take cards out of a box without looking.
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I'm wondering how many magicians out there have thought about how they walk onto a stage,
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a good book for that is yeah another good book for that is steve cohen's winning
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the crowd he talks about that as well he's like if you're behind curtains start
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walking 10 steps before you get to the stage so you're already at full speed
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instead of seeing the audience see you slowly start walking out what about williamson's
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approach this is the williamson.
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Doug is just tearing open a deck
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like a banana ripping the books apart taking out
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the goods inside hell yeah so then
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there's the williamson approach yeah i mean i've never seen anyone just be
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out of with the thumb just break the seal like that yeah it's pretty
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dope i was going to casino in biloxi and then one of
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the pit bosses was doing that i was like where did you learn that
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he's like look dude you gotta open 800 boxes a night
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you'd learn it too crap sure
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yeah and you know what these are the things that
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you start focusing on when you want to kind of be in that top one
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percent of awesome magicians okay like these are the this
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is the difference that it like i always talk about like it's formula
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one because there's milliseconds between you and 10th place like like the time
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from the person in first place is like 0.64 seconds you know between that and
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last So you've really got to start peeling off milliseconds and just doing little
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things to get better and better and polish and polish.
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And it comes in so many different formats, which we're coming down a rabbit
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hole, which is probably a little bit further away from what the question was.
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But these are the sorts of things we think about as we go along.
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So we should probably do that at some point, have a big chat about like,
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how do you get into the top?
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Echelon. Yeah. I mean, and even just for winning over an audience,
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like there's like milliseconds between you seeming cool and you seeming cringe.
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Oh yeah. You know, you know what I'm saying?
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Right into this episode's theme.
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Can we just segue? Yeah. I, I was meant to hit the air horn,
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but instead I changed my voice, but we roll with it. You know what I'm saying?
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So today's episode we've called it.
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Yeah. I'm mad. I'm magicians. Cool. or are they cringe?
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There's 10 questions we're going to debate and just riff on here.
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And we'd love to hear your thoughts in the chat, in the live chat as well.
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Starting with number 10, which is about our attire, our costume.
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So it's titled Fedora or for pass?
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Is what we wear outdated stage fashion that screams being try hard or should
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magicians dress like real humans or could it be stylized if owned with confidence?
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I'm going to throw it over to Doug first. He's seen many magician's attire over the time.
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What say you? That actually looked really good.
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Actually, that was, you know, fedoras are cool if they're worn by Doug Kahn,
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100%. But should they be like a staple?
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Like, okay, I'm a magician now. I should buy my fedora and buy my bow tie and buy my coattails.
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Yeah, well, you know, I think in the modern age, we can wear what we want.
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Like, I think this kind of started with David Blaine, you know,
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when he decided a t-shirt was cool.
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But really, it's Robert Houdin who changed it back in the 1800s when he put
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on a tuxedo instead of a wizard robe with a dunce hat.
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Uh yeah i you know i think it all boils down to character right it's
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like what image are you trying to portray your audience and what
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you know what costume does does
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that best yeah also does it does
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serve a purpose in some routines i mean i use a
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bowler's hat in in in
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my cups and balls routine and as a result i made it part of my
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my character and my costume and everything
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else you know nowadays i don't i've shied
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away from that as much but whenever i do that routine the hat
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comes out you know and i tell them the mythology of the routine
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and how long i've been doing it for and whatever else so yeah and.
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I think if you're going to do something or if it's going to be part of your costume
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like if you were going to be like the punk rock magician and
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that your jacket was covered in like bobby pins then
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use the bobby pins and do like a pin link
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type thing you know what i mean like i think things that
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are indigenous to your location and to your person doug
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do you remember what kind of attire matt
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franco was wearing at his show matt was
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in black suit the black suit had some
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white stripes on the arms which i didn't really like but you
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know it's a creative choice that i guess because he does a lot of slight hand
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in the show it draws attention to that body part all
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black and then just white stripe along the
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lower part it wasn't even like everywhere just
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that single feature he did do a costume
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change midway like this that's this that's it that's so that so for example
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i guess this is a good starting point he so what i'm noticing is he's wearing
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a t-shirt under his yeah right yeah very casual yeah he had on like a simple jewelry you know and.
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He changed his boots once during the show to a maroon jacket.
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I'm looking at David Copperfield, and I don't know.
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I'm seeing two different versions of Copperfield on stage.
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One is him in a suit, but he has no tie or anything. It's an open shirt,
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so he can show a bit of the chest.
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And then the other version, which in my memory, this is how I see Copperfield a lot.
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And it's the version where he has a white t-shirt and then like
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a long-sleeved unbuttoned uh blue blue
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shirt and you know that's
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not your classic suited up three-piece um
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magician at all and uh and then you got david blaine always
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rocking t-shirts ozzy wind one of my favorite magicians wears
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a t-shirt and then it as this show right here
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this las vegas late night late night magic show
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is a great example of how you can portray magic in
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many characters one of them is a wrestling character he
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wears a wrestling mask the shocker greg now get
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the name right the the mc is a boisterous comedian and comic book jacket you
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know bizarro is his everybody knows bizarro he's got his own thing going on
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the female magician was sexy and a little bit scantily clad so you know And
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all of them were killing it with their own point of view,
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using the costuming that fits their character.
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I think you nailed it, Doug. I think it's bringing your point of view is maybe
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the more important thing.
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Because now that I'm looking at all of the top magicians that the layman might
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know of, none of them are really rocking a three-piece suit that we're used
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to wearing to a corporate gig where we need to match the audience and stuff.
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But it's something to consider it doesn't have to
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be your go-to more importantly it's got
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to be your character and i love that i don't know why i took so long to like
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stop wearing a tie to gigs for me personally because i would never normally
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wear them and yeah yeah back in the 90s i was table hopping a brunch in a three-piece
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tuxedo you know fucking whole nine yards tails
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i'm in tails in the 90s baby i had
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to grow out of that i think you should look you should
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look like you have something better to be is what i figured that
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out about eight months into that gig i'm like i gotta get rid of this thing
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this is horrible and then uh blue blazer it's kind of my go-to sense you know
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yeah no i think you work a lot with costuming and and some of your stuff is
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is required for some of your teamings and stuff so well yeah what are your thoughts man dude i think,
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stuff I do is costume dependent and I've got tuxedos, I've got sports jackets,
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I've got all types of clothes to suit what I need to wear and they're all built
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for different purposes but I think there needs to be a level of.
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Is it genuine you got to be genuine to some degree you know what i mean so i
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think that works really well a lot of people try to portray themselves with
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something that they're not and it kind of shows through if they haven't developed
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their character because i think your character,
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should be a higher version of yourself and not like a
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totally left of center version of yourself you know i had
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a conversation recently with a good friend lewis we were
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jamming with him at the assembly if you don't recall
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who he is and you know he was talking about this routine where like you
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got to do it like crazy confident like super egotistical blah and
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i'm like but you're not that guy you're a sweetheart and you're quite shy this
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isn't gonna work if you do it this way you know so but
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yeah costume wise purpose built also the
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weather far out man like yeah i think
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we're going away from fedora hats and talking about costuming it
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might be worth pressing on podcast is going to be what to wear
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as a magician yeah exactly let's change
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the title let's press on a number nine so we
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don't get a whole 10 minutes let's go
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good like the thing is all of these questions could be there an episode you
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know so you're really getting the goods jam-packed yeah number nine number nine
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is saying pick a card cringe now and then the notes on this are is it overused
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and just unimaginative or is it a classic line that sets up the effect clearly,
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Can you reinvent the line creatively for yourself?
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Okay, so sometimes I've seen guys spread the deck to the spectators and just
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go, okay, do the thing, do the thing. Come on, do the thing.
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And it's like, you know what to do, do the thing. That's right.
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That's kind of interesting because you're playing on the fact that they know,
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what you would say yeah like and i
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think there's nothing wrong with saying this trick starts like all card
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tricks do pick a card pick any card i think
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there's nothing wrong with that i think that it's it's got
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a nice ring to it i would suggest this not only is there not any not anything
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wrong with it but that people want that experience from a magician a close-up
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you don't have to give it to them and there's reasons not to and that's fine
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but people love to be the person that gets to pick a card, any card.
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It is unfortunate that removing a selection from the pack is generally a dumb
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idea, but we'll talk about that another day.
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Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is probably because you get some people that
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are like, I've seen this one, you know, because they're like,
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oh, the same card trick is probably what you're going to do. Which, you know.
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Alluding, I do it that way. I say I have to do this at least once a show,
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sir, go ahead, pick a card, any card.
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And it's a nice moment, you know, people can relate to that and they have,
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it's a good grounding point and a great experience for the person that's into picking cards.
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So before we decide whether it's cringe or not, I have one thing I'd like to
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add, which is I typically don't let anyone choose a card with,
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with the way I perform just because I'm everyone's drinking and cards get wet
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and tables are wet and their hands are wet from holding drinks, et cetera.
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So I just do a lot of like say stop and I'll
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dribble I'll dribble cards or I'll riffle through cards
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I do a lot of like and the idea is is that when if I'm dribbling
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cards from hand to hand whenever they say stop you stop the dribble and then
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you've got a nice clear visual indicator of everyone's seeing it and you can
24:02
engage with every single person in that moment as opposed to asking someone
24:07
to take the card and show everyone because sometimes that person's a dickhead
24:10
and they don't actually show everyone they just look at themselves and they and they hide it and and
24:15
And then you have to put the card back once it's out.
24:18
That's my problem with it. Once it's in the wild, now what happens?
24:21
Do they put it back? Do you grab the card back?
24:23
And it's just not efficient in a working environment.
24:29
And it keeps all eyes on you and it allows you to connect with every single
24:33
person participating. Because you might see somebody just looking over their
24:37
shoulder, but, oh, come closer, friends, so you can see it. Can you see better now? Come and join us.
24:40
You can now welcome people into your circle that you were entertaining at this
24:43
corporate event, for example.
24:45
And then, you know, you put in your hand, everyone saw the card,
24:48
say yes, great. And you can get into the routine.
24:50
So is it cringe? I'm going to say no, it's classic.
24:56
Thoughts? Okay.
24:58
I'm going to play the advocate here and say it's a little cringe because we
25:03
could be more artistic about our routines than saying pick a card.
25:08
Because then we could vary.
25:09
We could do three card routines and them all feel different.
25:13
But they'll feel the same if we every time go, now pick a card. Ah, now you pick a card.
25:19
And that's something to think about is one of the main reasons why I learn a stack.
25:24
So I can just say to someone, name any card. And now I've skipped the entire
25:28
process of pick one, put it back in.
25:30
They just named it. And now I can do something with it.
25:33
Even if it's whatever card trick you're thinking of right now at home,
25:37
listening to this, I could now still go into it. Okay.
25:41
So there is one for not cringe, one for a little cringe, the deciding vote.
25:47
Doug, is it cringe or not? I say, own the cringe.
25:56
You're going to say it. Bang the gavel, that is cringe. Let's move to number eight. Hell yeah.
26:04
Number eight. Are magic conventions cool or cult-like?
26:09
Do they echo chambers and the everyone's a star vibe?
26:17
Or are they cool community building and inspiring
26:20
do conventions help push magic
26:23
forward question mark thug uh
26:27
i could say yes to all those things man
26:30
what is this multi-prong question that we're doing
26:33
another episode now i know magic magic
26:37
conventions are the best they're all the above man great
26:39
place to connect with the community great place to learn stuff
26:42
and yeah if you're an egotistic jerk off great place
26:45
to be a show off everyone will watch you do your thing and they'll talk
26:48
about you like i am right now but go ahead worst thing
26:52
in magic is an egotistical magician i see
26:55
you i see you watching me right now yeah i
27:00
think it's well yeah whatever you want the convention to be it will be that
27:04
it's probably what it is yeah but i love them essentially we need them like
27:09
yeah it's the one place Eric Leclerc when he came on it's he's like it's the
27:13
one place where you can still go and see the
27:17
like brick and mortar effect, like an actual setup of magic effects to buy. It's not online.
27:23
You know, it's so rare that we get to be around other performers that much.
27:28
Yeah. But then, yeah, you will see the show-offs or the people that are there
27:33
because they want you to see them there.
27:35
It's all those things, but it's essentially, it's great. So my vote would be, it's cool.
27:41
It's a cool cult, you know, join. What do you say?
27:44
Yeah, look, I think it's cool because, you know, anything that's going to help
27:48
propagate forward in a good way is obviously very important.
27:52
When you're at a convention, you're in the dealer's room, you're seeing all
27:55
these products, most possibly for the first time.
27:57
And then you have this beautiful opportunity to like purchase them months,
28:01
if not sometimes a year before they actually hit the shelves of every other brick and mortar.
28:05
So that's a really good place to be. You also get to sit in on the lectures,
28:09
which I think are very valuable and be part of the panels and ask questions and,
28:15
you know shake hands with a hero you know like we wouldn't have the pleasure
28:18
of setting up so many friendships and you know like there's nothing more wonderful
28:22
than getting in an elevator and someone turns to you and goes hey man aren't
28:24
you in a band and I go oh I listen you know.
28:29
You know so I think that that's important and community in magic is important
28:34
because it helps keep us in check and I also think that there's probably some
28:38
very small and I it's almost unnoticeable, but there are some,
28:43
groups within the magic community that are really just themselves.
28:47
Like, there's a lot of ways to enjoy magic conventions as part of a cult.
28:52
For example, you might be a kid's performer and go to a kid's magic convention,
28:55
or this week in Las Vegas, Trick Supply is exhibiting at the Magic Collector's Summit.
29:02
It's a convention at the Orleans Hotel where the Magic Live is,
29:06
but this is for people who collect magic.
29:08
So, you know, And if you're into collectibles, well, there's your convention.
29:13
If you're into close-up magic, you might go to trips, you know,
29:17
in Charlotte, North Carolina.
29:19
Yeah. So you can find your own cult to enjoy. It is cultish.
29:24
Yeah. And so say if it's cool or cringe, I'm going to say conventions are cool. Josh. Cool. Cool.
29:32
They're cool. Hey.
29:36
Number seven. You guys know that?
29:39
Oh, no. Doug's cringe. He just left the chat. He'll be back, I'm sure.
29:46
Oh, geez. Well, we'll keep it moving until he gets back here.
29:49
Because actually, probably good, too, that he's not here for this one.
29:52
Number seven, are Invisible Decks and Spongeballs just lazy?
29:57
Are they overused beginner props, or are they still strong when performed with intention?
30:02
The question is, do classics deserve more respect or retirement?
30:08
Whoo lots of loaded ammo here jeez we did have a chat one time about retiring,
30:16
magic old magic remember that was a really
30:18
fun episode we did not talk about the
30:21
invisible deck in that episode no ha when
30:25
was the last time nick you would have performed with the
30:28
classic invisible deck gimmick itself i know
30:31
you have your own beautiful version which is what maybe an artist should
30:34
do but when did you last use an invisible deck honestly i
30:37
bought one in the first year of me doing magic and
30:41
i never performed it ever right okay
30:44
um yep myself i
30:47
have one invisible deck i own it's a bicycle deck and
30:51
it's the box is getting so tattered because it just lives in a box somewhere
30:56
that i can get if i need to yeah but don't use okay when was the last time you
31:01
did a classic sponge ball routine I do not do sponge interesting I also,
31:09
couldn't tell you where my sponge balls are right now.
31:13
When I would do gigs I used to keep them just in my back pocket in case there was kids there yep and,
31:22
That was before I got my hands on the lucky ladybug.
31:26
And now that's my preference if there are kids there.
31:30
Or if there were just overly drunk people or people from a different country
31:34
that I couldn't communicate with.
31:36
Spongeballs is an easy way to show them something in a particular environment.
31:41
But yeah, I don't perform spongeballs either.
31:45
So the question is, without Doug here to explain why they should not be cringe,
31:51
i think maybe to us they're for us
31:54
they're they're cringe wow okay can i all
31:57
right they let me say something in defense of
32:00
that then just for the sake of indifference of this conversation yeah
32:04
the reason why i will never slander the
32:07
invisible deck is because it is probably the
32:11
best car trick ever made okay like name
32:15
a car trick better than that probably you know we'd be
32:18
like a personal preference of saying nothing beats a con
32:21
that's the most magical card shit you can ever do and like you're right that
32:24
is probably the most magical card stuff you can do i
32:26
agree with that yeah but i'm always reminded
32:30
of what i heard in the mark mason lecture when because as
32:33
he he produces products and the first thing they said to him was mark.
32:37
I have an idea for a trick he says is it
32:40
better than invisible deck and if the answer is no he's like
32:43
don't talk to me so and
32:47
so that if we go to the chat real quick
32:50
too we got alex saying if it ain't broke you know
32:53
why why change what you're doing we got tim saying it's
32:56
all about the performance which i very strongly like
33:00
that comment scott link is saying it depends
33:03
on this i like you know what this might be why you
33:06
and i don't do these two effects it depends on
33:09
statistically if they've ever seen many magicians
33:12
live and that's something i do try and
33:15
avoid i try and avoid mainstream effects so
33:18
that someone can happily watch me do
33:21
magic and then when they see someone else they can
33:24
still enjoy that mainstream effect if they're
33:27
doing it you know if they there's a
33:30
problem if an audience is always seeing
33:33
every magician do invisible deck and double
33:36
cross you know that's a problem so i
33:39
think that's a great one it depends how much magic the audience is is seeing
33:43
alex is then saying because then you have to ask this about professor's nightmare.
33:48
Cut restored row matrix book tests fair enough okay so yeah great great questions
33:54
here i think if we were to reframe the question,
33:58
Let's just, let's just, is it fair in saying the question wasn't more so about
34:01
those two props, but more so about classics?
34:04
Is that fair to sort of synopsisize that?
34:07
The end question is, yeah, do classics deserve more respect or retirement?
34:12
I believe the classics are classics for a reason.
34:16
Never should anybody retire something like, what's a classic song?
34:22
My Way by Sinatra, written by Paul Anka.
34:25
That song will should never ever be retired and never
34:28
sung again okay like that is an absolute banger and it
34:31
needs to be around forever candle in the wind by elton
34:34
john needs to be around forever whatever from the
34:37
beatles like classics are classics for
34:40
a reason man they've got to they've got to stick around for because they are
34:46
classics one and like imagine saying to someone that like you can't watch the
34:49
matrix you know like that's a that's a classic film now you know what i mean
34:54
You've got to watch The Matrix or Die Hard. Like, come on.
34:59
Classics are classics for a reason. They're not cringe and they need to stick around.
35:05
All right. Hear, hear. Agreed.
35:09
This is going well. I would say they're a little cringe if everyone's doing just that.
35:13
I think it's the difference between being the entertainer and the artist.
35:17
The artist should learn them, use them for when they need to,
35:20
but then quickly try to come with your own versions that...
35:24
You know, help you stand out. Yeah, like Snow White.
35:27
You know what I mean? Like when they did Snow White again. Exactly like Snow
35:31
White. Yeah. So much. They should not have picked her. It was so much better.
35:37
That's funny. All right, here we go. Number six, counting down.
35:42
Oof. Is magician voice a crime?
35:46
The tones and fake mystery and fake elegance cringe, or is the vocal control
35:53
and presence that magicians use, does it elevate the act?
35:57
And then the challenge is, can you perform in your natural voice and still command
36:03
the room? And we welcome back Doug.
36:06
Welcome back, Doug. To this chat. Check one thing. I'm on the phone. How do I sound? Okay?
36:11
Sound great, bud. You're sounding great. Good stuff. All right, cool. Back to normal.
36:16
Just a reminder, everyone, this is the Magic Guys Live. The Magic Guys Live.
36:22
This is unreheathed, unedited.
36:24
This is just straight up raw dogging.
36:27
Heck yeah. Yeah. So we're kind of glad you weren't here for the last question,
36:31
Doug, because we're talking about Invisible Deck and Sponge Balls.
36:34
But now we're on to question six.
36:36
Worst tricks ever. Excellent.
36:40
So we're talking about the magician voice, the voice that magicians put on when
36:44
they go on stage to like, you know, create mystery and, you know,
36:48
have this sort of elegance to their way they speak. And the question is,
36:53
Is that cringe or is that elevating the act?
36:57
And then the underlying challenge is, can we perform in our natural voice and
37:02
it still commands the room? Dun, dun, dun.
37:05
You want to go first, Doug? Because I have very strong opinions about this.
37:09
I'll briefly say, we've kind of mentioned this already, it's be an exaggerated
37:13
version of yourself. That would include speaking in a more exaggerated version
37:18
and probably louder. That's my thought.
37:22
Well said. Hmm.
37:24
Well said. I think it's funny.
37:28
I'm trying to think of, there was this time where I was chatting to a guy who
37:34
did magic part-time and we're chatting like Aussies.
37:40
We're like, yeah, mate, yeah, blah, blah, blah. And this, that, and the other.
37:43
And oh yeah, I love that effect and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like,
37:46
oh, can you show me a trick?
37:47
And he's like, oh yeah, there is one I know.
37:50
Here we go. And my girlfriend's next to me. He's like, all right,
37:52
here we go man could you take out any three cars you want okay now please do
37:58
not let me see them and you know what and he went into the weirdest performance
38:03
of my freaking life you know.
38:06
I'm gonna can i show you a trick absolutely all right
38:09
yeah like man it was so weird like it was so weird and i was like bro none of
38:18
this is authentic like you don't talk like that i've just spent 10 minutes with
38:23
you as a bogan you can't now switch to to um derren brown you know.
38:28
So yeah that was a bit let me throw it at you carissa hendrix
38:33
plays a character called lucy darling and her accent that she's developed over
38:36
the years like it doesn't exist she's purposely done an amalgamation of several
38:41
characters and we should bring her on the show to talk about this to make this
38:45
particular accent and no one knows where she's from she could be dutch she could be
38:50
french it could be so many different things you would never know but it
38:53
works and it's this beautiful accent that's
38:56
like everyone should be able to
38:59
identify with it in some capacity or another so i
39:04
you know it needs to be done
39:07
well i got a friend of mine
39:10
called davide kaufman and he's
39:13
that's what he calls himself but he's he's italian his italian is
39:16
all get out like he was performing and
39:20
somebody talks it's very like you know everything's
39:23
like i must pay for the tosti or pick a card
39:25
like it's like this thing he finished his
39:28
set and they were like i really liked your show but like i
39:31
think that you're lay off the accent it's a bit racist and he's like but this
39:35
is how i talk what do you mean it was just being himself so that's funny so
39:43
that being said it's obviously the audience can be perceiving things in such
39:47
a way and i think this wouldn't be a problem if we went so upset about, you know.
39:52
Social warrior type folk, you know, pronouns, the whole hamburger,
39:55
like this is all stuff that now has come into the equation of us addressing audiences.
39:59
You can never, it's almost very scary to say, may I have your name miss?
40:03
You know, I, I don't gender, I gender nobody, bro.
40:07
I just go, and what's your name friend? And if I call a woman,
40:10
anything, I call her your majesty.
40:12
What's your name, your majesty? Because that could be either or, right?
40:16
But it's just the, the means of me setting a status in which saying that like,
40:19
I'm here to serve you, your majesty this is my job i'm just a jester and you
40:24
call anyone that they go okay cool like we've created a standard here he's sort
40:28
of acknowledging me that's the important thing.
40:31
I've heard of scenarios where a friend
40:34
of mine who does tim ellis tim ellis does a routine but he
40:37
opens his show he he's a mad hatter and he's
40:39
an amazing mad hatter and he gets on stage good evening
40:42
boys and girls boys and girls men women
40:45
blah blah and beautiful creatures of all denominations right
40:49
it's like this really cute long thing and the
40:52
sound tech was like queer and
40:56
said thank you for making me feel included then i had another friend
40:59
who was queer who said don't say
41:02
that it's the rugatry and it makes us third class citizens because
41:06
you mentioned because you mentioned us last and it's like
41:09
i right for real child are
41:12
you for real and the kid was young you know what i mean i just said
41:15
like come on child come on come on like yeah you're at.
41:18
A magic show kid like yeah but look
41:21
did not deter too much away from the the question
41:25
of cringe or not cringe let me let me
41:27
finish my point right so the point
41:30
is that erroneous of like how
41:34
you say it right i think it's okay to
41:37
have a different tone when you do say things i have
41:40
many years of vocal training because i used to be in a
41:43
band hey it's been
41:48
a while i don't have any i didn't even
41:51
prepare a shot for that one now because of that when i when i'm on stage my
41:56
voice booms a lot more and i speak a certain way but when i'm in a close-up
42:00
setting talking to a kid what's your name little one oh this is evie everyone
42:04
say hi evie you know it's polite it's the same way that I'll get on the phone.
42:08
I'll be like, all right, shut up, shut up, shut up.
42:10
Honeyk speaking, you know, and I have a different tone for when I speak.
42:14
So I don't think it's wrong to change your delivery.
42:19
But if you're going to have a script that you speak to, you know, like, I don't know.
42:25
Yeah, I think it is cool. I think play with your voice.
42:29
Absolutely. Don't be inauthentic if you're still playing yourself on stage.
42:35
If you're playing a character, great.
42:37
Like, by the way, how have we not had Carissa Hendricks on here yet?
42:42
I'm making that this week's task.
42:45
But I think it's cool. What do you guys think? yeah
42:48
so i'm going to finish by saying that i don't think it's cringe and i think that
42:51
you should adjust to your audience when i perform for high
42:54
society my vernacular is very
42:57
different because it's my job to be a professional communicator and to approach
43:02
him in that way when i perform for all the guys who are tradies and the plumbers
43:07
and the guys building our tunnels i'm definitely yeah none yeah nah definitely
43:11
yeah nah yeah nah for sure bloke yeah come on bloke choose a car bloke you know go mate.
43:17
Be dynamic love it not cringe I'm gonna switch to that helium voice Norbido's
43:25
been using that's my new well if you use my Amazon link and purchase the Rodecaster Pro 2,
43:35
what you you too can sound like this alright that's a good one it is a good
43:42
one hey I like it alright it's a good one It's cool.
43:45
Number five, do TikTok magicians make magic look lame?
43:51
Are they using an overuse of cuts, stooges, and acting shocked?
43:56
Or is it the new platform, new audiences, and fresh creativity?
43:59
The debate is, are viral tricks good for the art?
44:04
Perfect timing for Doug to be on here for this. I'm going to just say one thing.
44:08
I don't know if it's good for the art, but I do think it's good for the scene. you,
44:15
Doug, I can see a whole episode here in his head right now. Yeah.
44:21
I don't, you know, yeah, I don't think it's good for the art.
44:24
I think most of the content that's even popular is very cringe.
44:31
I don't know. Yeah, it's like the ones that's viral aren't the ones that we
44:38
would go and watch at a show.
44:40
Like i don't feel like the right top
44:43
artists are the ones becoming like the super
44:46
super viral it's what like i don't know it's it's i'm
44:50
thinking like pete firman right now is making some great content that goes viral
44:53
pretty regularly and it could be like it could be cringe but he transcends it
44:57
a little bit plays it out i would think anyone watching one of his videos would
45:01
be happy actually that's a great point yeah he's the right person for doing
45:05
magic well on tiktok and in person And obviously,
45:08
you've had great success as well, building off TikTok and off YouTube.
45:13
And also this, honestly, timing was great, you know, and I guess part of the
45:19
deal is you got to know when the timing's right. And if you want something, go get it when it is.
45:23
But like the content that I put out, mostly cringe.
45:26
Like I can't even stand to watch most of that crap. So, yeah.
45:32
Well, throwing to our audience, I mean, Alex has said, Alex Lamb has said,
45:36
based on those parameters, no Stooges, fake hot girlfriend, reactions and edits,
45:41
that stuff equals cringe.
45:44
Yeah. Yeah. Genuine content. Like, Josh, you post a lot of it.
45:48
You're doing material in the real world. You showcase those moments.
45:51
Carissa is blowing up doing the same thing with, you know, clips of her audience work.
45:57
And this is a great way to share your magic.
46:01
As though people would be seeing it in the wild. It's really hard to say,
46:06
I'm going to be a TikTok magician and make a magic trick for the camera.
46:10
Usually it's just like... Would you agree?
46:14
It's like, it's good for the art if you're just betraying your art form and
46:19
not trying to mold to what might go viral with the overreactions and the... Yeah, it's good.
46:26
Always good to be true to yourself and try to make good
46:29
creative stuff yeah the other
46:32
thing that's annoying too is the clips of
46:35
mine that will go viral are not they're the ones that like show a little bit
46:41
of maybe i can see some of the method like they're they're not the ones that
46:46
are just like really entertaining it's always the ones that are like i slipped
46:49
up a tiny bit and then boom half a million views i'm like I think in general,
46:54
on social media or even online viewing like YouTube,
46:58
people want education. So that's part of that alert.
47:01
They're going to learn something that benefits the viewer. They share it with
47:04
a friend because it benefits them.
47:07
And rarely, I think, do the people making these videos approach it with that
47:11
frame of mind. Like, I'm going to give my viewer something to take away from this.
47:15
Besides how great I am at the back post.
47:19
Maybe, and maybe the last thing I'll say to this is the new FISM category for online content.
47:25
Maybe that helps in some way with giving a direction for doing,
47:29
you know, good content, as Doug would say.
47:32
Yeah. You know, Tim Askin just referenced Jackie Yu. And I think Jackie does
47:37
some of the best stuff you've ever seen.
47:39
So do I think that, look, everyone can do something wrong, right?
47:45
Like everyone can be like, I'm going to open a restaurant and be like,
47:48
this food is awful. Okay. I'm going to do magic. You're doing it awful.
47:51
I, I don't think it should be stopped. I don't think it's entirely bad,
47:56
but I think that because it's in its adolescence that hopefully that it doesn't get worse.
48:01
And hopefully with things like FISM and like amazing people who create stuff
48:06
like the Jackie use of the world, the, the Alex Boyer, Jesus Christ,
48:10
his stuff, Dennis, Liam, sorry.
48:14
Yes. Sorry. I misbroke. Uh, Dennis came like his thing with the mirror.
48:18
Jesus christ like it is that stuff yeah like
48:22
i watched that and i think to myself like where do you even read that where
48:25
do you even read that stuff to come up with it like that is so good it hurts
48:29
me so that stuff as far as the art form goes i'm gonna say hell yeah and then
48:36
all the stuff to do with exposure and all that malakia i'm gonna say cringe
48:40
and agree with alex lamb on that one.
48:44
I think this, let me say, even if you're producing cringe content,
48:47
the process of doing so is beneficial
48:49
because you're going to try a little harder to get this thing right.
48:52
I don't know that a lot of magicians even try that hard to get it past the mirror.
48:56
You watch yourself in the mirror, you say it looks pretty good,
48:59
but if you actually go to the links that you're going to put something on video
49:01
for social media, you're probably going to rehearse it a little more.
49:04
And so, you know, if you like doing it, maybe one day you'll be really
49:08
good at it and just become a better magician in the
49:10
process so i think that's okay and it's
49:13
not harming anything because no one's going to see those bad videos you know
49:16
a couple hundred people might see them it's not going to matter although i i
49:21
just had one that i hate my hate my first million as far as a real goes did
49:26
you know i did yeah yeah what's what did it what's the banger you know what it was,
49:34
exposure do scullers lucky ladybug that was it that's the video.
49:40
I thought it was your coins across that was going
49:44
to hit a mil that did half a mil I think what the
49:49
actual shout out to do scullers lucky ladybug it
49:52
got me a million views doing it at a local lady it's a live performance of an
49:57
effect where I'm sure the person is reacting wonderfully to the trick and that's
50:01
what I'm talking about Everything I've done where I'm to screen and I've really
50:05
polished it up and I've set my lights properly and I've spent half a day trying
50:08
to get it right and worked on it for weeks.
50:11
Couple of thousand views something where somebody who
50:14
who's damn near has parkinson's and can't even hold the camera straight and
50:17
shake shake shake they're polite enough to film it and send it to my socials
50:21
which i then repost and it gets a million views so is this on tiktok you're
50:26
referring to i'm talking about
50:28
instagram because i'm looking on instagram and your lucky ladybug has,
50:32
4 000 views at least the one with the kid at tom but
50:35
the one million viewed video is the one
50:38
that's oh my mistake my mistake
50:41
i'm seeing it now i'm with the lady oh this
50:44
one here yeah okay okay wow lucky
50:48
ladybug at a corporate event boom a million
50:51
views congrats man that's do scale of magic.com go there buy it and then buy
50:57
everything else their whole catalog is great yeah real good far out that's crazy
51:02
something to be said as well about you doing something that viewers wouldn't
51:07
have seen on a video probably before.
51:11
Love it. Number four. Is it cool to pretend you have magic powers, like real powers?
51:21
And the debates here, do the viewers roll their eyes at the fake mysticism or
51:26
when presented as theater, is it powerful?
51:29
And then the question is, how do you walk the line between mystery and make
51:33
believe it's not cool there i said it.
51:40
Dude it's it's interesting because you know
51:43
you you see someone like copperfield and you go this is
51:46
this is magic this is real magic like you know it's like
51:49
yeah it's like this is crazy i
51:53
don't know beauty beauty is in the eye of the beholder as
51:56
i was talking with my wife last night she can't stand
51:59
the goat where i was
52:02
like you want to go see copperfield instead of that she's like no yeah
52:06
i can't stand the way he does magic yeah i
52:10
had a friend who's not a magician at all and went to vegas saw copperfield saw
52:17
chris angel and could not stop raving enough about angel and his wife got bored
52:23
of copperfield they're like what is this this is a kid this is kitty like,
52:27
you know, the way he's like.
52:29
And so, yeah, you're right. Eye of the beholder. He's sort of legendary status now.
52:33
So we, I feel like we see a show because of, you know, all the stuff he's done
52:37
before. Because he's still going...
52:40
The magic in that
52:43
show speaks for itself so like the
52:47
performance okay you might have a good night might have a bad one you're gonna
52:50
love the magic though yeah and here's the thing i think that there is like i
52:56
saw chris angel show too and i became a fan after watching it like this is many
53:00
years ago now i thought it was unbelievable and it was david penn who told me to to see it he goes
53:06
the best show there the reason i liked chris angel
53:09
show so much is because there was a huge level of personality in
53:12
it which added to the already amazing
53:15
magic which i thought was really good so for
53:18
me that level was great and there's a
53:21
little there's something wonderful about when you experience a
53:24
show for example i've i've done
53:27
a bunch of gigs in which we've had to entertain the vips of large-scale concerts
53:32
so we have bands like queen katie perry pink we did a whole tour from and then
53:38
you see their shows live and what i took away from watching these people that
53:42
you know especially something like katie perry which i was not a fan of but
53:45
then you go watch their show.
53:47
And all of a sudden you're like you're a fan because they're so cool and they're
53:50
so lovable and they're so lovely like on the stage and to their audience and
53:54
everything else so all of a sudden I go like, I think Katy Perry's cool.
53:59
Then she comes back from planet, you know, from a little planet of operation.
54:04
And it's, and all the reports now say that her show is, is, is awful.
54:09
And, and then no one should go and watch it. Like her performance is so bad.
54:13
And I'm like, how did that happen in the space of three years? You know? So yeah.
54:18
I think what is coming to mind right now,
54:21
and I'm just going to end with my opinion by saying that there's nice when there's
54:25
a level of genuine personality injected into your routines and a bit where they
54:32
see you perform and they can tell the type of person who you are and they like who that person is.
54:37
So I think that that's a nice place to be if you're
54:40
going to be a performer so the whole fake
54:44
bravado and I've met so many people who
54:46
aren't this but then tell me I want
54:49
to be the debonair type magician and I
54:52
want to wear the expensive suit and be able to talk very
54:55
eloquently and it's like you can barely string together a sentence nor
54:58
have you ever read a book it's so disingenuous I
55:01
just don't think that's going to be your character but give
55:04
it a crack it'll take you a while to get that character right but it's.
55:08
Going to be cringe for a long long time unless you reach carissa
55:12
hendrix levels of character building so i'm
55:15
gonna end by saying cringe and after
55:18
nick gave me that advice i've been trying hard ever since
55:21
yeah let
55:25
me say this 99 cringe but the
55:28
one percent doing it right are the best performers in
55:31
our art well said yeah amazing
55:34
amazing so look we're almost out of
55:37
time so what i'm what i'll do is on instagram i'll put up a poll in our stories
55:42
for each of the the full 10 questions so you can see the other three questions
55:46
on there as well and you can vote yes or no is it cringe because the underlying
55:52
overall factor is is magic cool or cringe at the end of the day,
55:56
all these questions we're saying is sort of alluding to that.
55:59
And I mean, Doug kind of nailed it. Like a lot of it can be cringe,
56:03
but the ones that are doing it right can make it seem cool.
56:07
But overall verdict, is magic cool or cringe?
56:11
I would say if I had to really put it in a category, I wouldn't give it the
56:15
cool category, but I also wouldn't give it the cringe category. I would give it like.
56:21
As a person walking into a party and being a magician, I would call it the quirky fun category.
56:28
It's like quirky cool. It's like how nerds are cool now.
56:34
It's like sort of in that realm, like we're doing really odd,
56:38
fun things that people love us for it, but it's not like we're cool,
56:42
you know, at least not for my character.
56:44
And so I would say in my world, magic comes across as very quirky and fun.
56:51
That's what I'll put down to for me.
56:53
Doug, what would you say in the land of magic? Yeah, you know,
56:57
I would kind of lean towards cringe for the average, you know, joke.
57:02
If this were a worldwide poll, I would think most people would be like, magic, huh?
57:07
But yeah, I think you're right. We're nerdy cool.
57:12
Yeah. What do you think, Nick? I'm going to tell you two quick stories.
57:16
I remember going to my mechanic one time and he
57:19
saw a deck of cards on the dashboard and he
57:22
was like what's the deal with that and I said I'm a magician showed him
57:25
a trick at the end of it he said I was having the worst day the worst day and
57:31
now I can't stop smiling I think that's pretty cool 15 years ago I was performing
57:37
and this dude watched my show on the street and he says I'm suffering from depression.
57:44
And this is the first smile I've had in eight months.
57:48
That's pretty cool. Magic is cool.
57:53
Thanks for listening. It's time for us to disappear now.
57:59
But we'll see you again on the next episode of The Magic Guys.