Latest / All Bodies. All Foods. / Renfrew Conference Mini-Series Episode 5: Cultivating Body Trust Within the Therapeutic Relationship
Transcript
- 0:00Hey,
- 0:01I'm Sam.
- 0:02Hi,
- 0:02I'm Ashley.
- 0:03And you're listening to all bodies All Foods presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.
- 0:09We want to create a space for all bodies to come together authentically and purposefully to discuss various areas that impact us on a cultural and relational level.
- 0:19We believe that all bodies and all foods are welcome.
- 0:23We would love for you to join us on this journey.
- 0:26Let's learn together.
- 0:29Hello,
- 0:29my fellow helping professionals.
- 0:32I have a question for you.
- 0:34What is it like to trust yourself?
- 0:36What is it like to allow yourself to take up space in the therapy room?
- 0:41We have all probably experienced a time where we haven't felt her own grounded this in the therapy session and in this chat with Nethery Falchuk,
- 0:51L CS WSC GP.
- 0:54We will discuss their thoughts on the healing power of relationships.
- 0:58Their goals of exploring anti fat bias within the therapeutic context and holding space for the helping professional as the helping professional explores their own body,
- 1:11trust relationship,
- 1:13all of which is done in an effort to continue the deep connection with our clients.
- 1:19We hope you enjoy.
- 1:24Hi,
- 1:24everyone.
- 1:25Welcome back.
- 1:26We are joined now by Nethery Falchuk.
- 1:29They them L CS WSC GP.
- 1:34Nethery is the founder of Ample and Rooted and inclusive psychotherapy and training practice,
- 1:40specializing in eating disorders and body liberation.
- 1:44Nether is past president of Central Texas Eating Disorder Specialist,
- 1:48past board member of the Association for Size,
- 1:51diversity and Health and currently on the program committee for Project Heal Nether.
- 1:57You're welcome.
- 1:58Hi.
- 1:58Thank you so much for having me.
- 2:00Yeah,
- 2:00definitely.
- 2:01So your presentation is titled Embodied Presence,
- 2:06Cultivating Body Trust Within the Therapeutic Relationship.
- 2:10Yes.
- 2:10Yes.
- 2:12Can you share with me?
- 2:13What is body trust?
- 2:14What is that?
- 2:15Yes.
- 2:16Well,
- 2:16I'm a certified body trust provider through the folks at center for body trust.
- 2:21And so yes.
- 2:23Shout out to Dana Hillary and Sirius.
- 2:25And yeah,
- 2:26the body trust method is reclaiming of the inherent wisdom of your body.
- 2:33Going back to that wisdom that we are born with.
- 2:36Um I'm a new parent to a five month old right now.
- 2:40Oh,
- 2:40thank you.
- 2:41Thank you.
- 2:42Yes and wow,
- 2:43so much healing in my little inner kiddo and just seeing how we are so so born with knowing our bodies and how quickly society or other influences want to come in and strip away your own inherent wisdom.
- 3:01I've known that from a,
- 3:03you know,
- 3:03lived experience,
- 3:04clinical experience.
- 3:05But now as a parent,
- 3:06I see how early it starts.
- 3:09So,
- 3:10so grateful for the folks that center for body trust in coming up with the framework and the process and how to come back to the wisdom of your body.
- 3:21Yeah,
- 3:22I mean,
- 3:23excited that you share that too.
- 3:24I'm a mother of a two year old and it's just so fun,
- 3:29but it also is very um interesting being a parent now and,
- 3:34and you're like seeing their little brains,
- 3:37being able to connect to their bodies and understanding what's going on and then also seeing kind of those um outside influences.
- 3:47Yes,
- 3:47come in,
- 3:48right?
- 3:48Even just like,
- 3:50you know,
- 3:50culturally or even like,
- 3:52you know,
- 3:53little girls wear this,
- 3:54little boys wear this like just so many outside influences.
- 3:58Oh my goodness.
- 3:58Yes.
- 3:59Yeah.
- 4:00I mean,
- 4:00the process of coming back to your own inherent wisdom is also within the context of our socio cultural um systems of oppression.
- 4:10And so the body trust method really names and posits that it isn't possible for us to all inhabit our bodies without shame unless all of us can.
- 4:21And especially for those who are multiply marginalized and impacted by these systems on a daily.
- 4:28Um And because we are swimming in these systems,
- 4:34it is impossible to not have them inside of us,
- 4:38right?
- 4:39Our own um anti blackness,
- 4:41anti fatness,
- 4:42anti trans,
- 4:43anti queerness.
- 4:45Um The workshop that I'm leading,
- 4:48which is tomorrow.
- 4:49So we'll see how it goes.
- 4:50But the hope is that we'll really do a deep dive in our own implicit bias and anti fatness because it's there.
- 4:58And how can we sit with people,
- 5:00whether in a room,
- 5:01virtually conference room,
- 5:03how can we be in shared spaces with each other when there is that implicit bias against fat people?
- 5:09So that's what we'll go through and really exploring the interpersonal neurobiology of the felt experience,
- 5:16felt sense neuro exception that all of this is happening at a really unconscious level.
- 5:22So you can say,
- 5:23I believe your body is great fat positivity and the felt experience can still be different if you haven't slowed down to do the very deep layered work of and learning your own Antifa you mentioned body wisdom that we're all born with.
- 5:45So for our audience,
- 5:47if you could fill in the blank,
- 5:48we are already born knowing what?
- 5:52Oh That's a really good question,
- 5:55Sam.
- 5:56I'm just curious about the answer.
- 5:58Yeah.
- 5:59Uh We are already born knowing we are whole.
- 6:05Um Yeah,
- 6:06I can just see my kiddo just like taking in the world and like not having that conversation in the back of,
- 6:16do I deserve this?
- 6:17Am I taking up too much space?
- 6:19Too little space?
- 6:20I've already asked for that.
- 6:21I can't ask for that.
- 6:22Um I don't belong here,
- 6:24right?
- 6:24All of the chatter that comes,
- 6:26there's just a knowing of,
- 6:28oh,
- 6:29I'm here.
- 6:29I am embodied.
- 6:30I get to be here,
- 6:31take up space and be curious and navigate the world and make sense of where I am um in my own kind of space and learning and just exist peacefully.
- 6:43Um So that's what comes to mind for me right now is,
- 6:46is just our inherent wholeness um that we deserve love,
- 6:50compassion,
- 6:51pleasure.
- 6:52Um And that again,
- 6:55some of us have early experiences where the messaging is that we don't deserve that.
- 7:00And that's why we're all therapists.
- 7:03We have our own wounding.
- 7:04We sit with folks who have had the same wounding.
- 7:08And um ultimately,
- 7:10the what I love doing with clients and myself and my family and friends is just a reminder of our amazing wholeness and uh just that we're awesome people.
- 7:20I'm so um interested to hear like how,
- 7:26you know,
- 7:26right.
- 7:26We're all therapists,
- 7:27right?
- 7:27So,
- 7:28yes,
- 7:28we've worked through some of our own healing and stuff.
- 7:31Um What brought you down this path and,
- 7:35and getting certified in body trust and,
- 7:38and why was that so important for you?
- 7:41Yeah.
- 7:42So I am queer trans,
- 7:45non binary and fat Latinx.
- 7:48And I grew up um I'm white and Mexican.
- 7:50So I grew up in a kind of multicultural experience where I didn't really feel a sense of belonging in many communities.
- 8:00I kind of live in this liminal space.
- 8:02Um And that just impacted my own embodiment from the beginning.
- 8:07Didn't see people who were queer trans growing up,
- 8:12didn't know that,
- 8:14you know,
- 8:14it's OK to be fat.
- 8:16Um Of course,
- 8:17we're,
- 8:17you know,
- 8:17brought up in this weight centric world.
- 8:21Um So that obviously impacted my own relationship to food,
- 8:24my own relationship to my body.
- 8:26And it's in reclaiming these identities,
- 8:29these,
- 8:30you know,
- 8:30important parts of who I am that I can be embodied,
- 8:34that I can experience the fullness of life and really have pleasurable moments and have compassion for myself and others.
- 8:43And um yeah,
- 8:44that's I,
- 8:45I have lived with that.
- 8:47I love doing that work with clients.
- 8:48And then uh the Center for Body Trust Program is just such a wonderful weaving of lived experience and then their clinical experience and um just putting words to the body's knowing um lots of training programs,
- 9:04you know,
- 9:04you have a how to guide this is more of just a putting language to something that is experienced and it has been so powerful.
- 9:14It's been so amazing to have and just know that we have the tools inside.
- 9:20We know how to be in our bodies.
- 9:22We just need to uh feel comfortable and safe enough.
- 9:27And again,
- 9:27it's at that neuro acceptive level,
- 9:29which is what the workshop will cover is how that kind of can cloud the work that we do with our clients.
- 9:36Um Even if you don't know that that it's happening.
- 9:40So your presentation is really from that type of perspective of,
- 9:44of um helping a clinician.
- 9:47Yes.
- 9:48Yeah.
- 9:48Some of their own work.
- 9:49Yeah,
- 9:49we'll go through um again,
- 9:52the neurobiology won't go and only have two hours.
- 9:54So I'm not going to go into a deep dive.
- 9:56But I will,
- 9:57you know,
- 9:57give some resources like Bonnie Baden's work of um again,
- 10:01relational neuroscience and neurobiology.
- 10:05And we'll go through examples of what anti fat bias is in the therapy room.
- 10:10I speak from a therapist's perspective,
- 10:12but it's absolutely present with dieticians,
- 10:15doctors like across the board.
- 10:17Um and it can be from very overt obviously um experiences of,
- 10:23of weight stigma harm and also covert.
- 10:25So those experiences where you don't know it because of your privilege,
- 10:29because of your own bias that you haven't quite worked through.
- 10:32Um And so give people a little discomfort.
- 10:37I closed the conference.
- 10:39It's the last one of the day of the conference actually.
- 10:42So hopefully people will take that and do some more of their own inner work because it is necessary,
- 10:48it's really so necessary when we're,
- 10:52when we're working with people and teaching them how to exist in the world,
- 10:58right?
- 10:58And not use a behavior,
- 11:00a symptom to,
- 11:01to mask or suppress or numb out if we haven't,
- 11:07um,
- 11:07done that work for.
- 11:10Um I,
- 11:11I would imagine that we would feel very disjointed in session,
- 11:15right?
- 11:15It wouldn't feel we wouldn't feel congruent to our value system.
- 11:19Um And I,
- 11:20I just think that that work is so imperative.
- 11:22Yes,
- 11:23so imperative.
- 11:24Um And we'll cover too that it's not perfection we're looking for,
- 11:28it's not like we're still going to be humans with bodies in this world that the expectation of just being like quote healed or never having negative thoughts about your body ever again.
- 11:38That's not the point.
- 11:40That's not what we're aiming for.
- 11:42It's just the awareness of the harm you can do with your own bias towards fat people.
- 11:48And also knowing how to navigate when we have our own stuff come up and being able to model that like,
- 11:55OK,
- 11:56I'm having a tough time or there's a stressful event happening in my life.
- 12:00So of course,
- 12:00these old neural pathways of thinking about food or my body are coming up and here's how I cope with that instead or here's how what I do to get back on a more values aligned path in a culture where there's so much weight stigma,
- 12:20anti fatness.
- 12:22How can people cultivate body trust?
- 12:27Are there any ways that yeah,
- 12:31that people can just start this journey?
- 12:34Yes.
- 12:35Well,
- 12:35one is just going to center for body trust and following their work.
- 12:40They have a variety of trainings for um professionals and for people who are not in this,
- 12:46in the field and just want the the healing work books.
- 12:50They actually came out with a book this year or last year um reclaiming body trust.
- 12:55So that's a great place to start um for providers wanting more training with like how to integrate this with eating disorders.
- 13:02Um ample and rooted.
- 13:03We do a training for providers and diversifying your social media feed right.
- 13:09We are again,
- 13:10indoctrinated with thin ideal diet culture.
- 13:13Um so much.
- 13:15So it's,
- 13:15it's just everywhere.
- 13:17So we want to counter that just because our brains need so much repetition.
- 13:21It is just neuroscience.
- 13:23We need more exposure.
- 13:24So I've made a profession of it.
- 13:27I tell clients that like this is my job.
- 13:30I do all of this research.
- 13:32I listen to podcasts,
- 13:34nonstop,
- 13:35read books.
- 13:36I talk about it all day.
- 13:37That is how much repetition is needed to start to shift your paradigm and shift your perspective of again,
- 13:45thin ideal diet culture based paradigms.
- 13:49So it just requires time,
- 13:52it requires changing something in terms of who you're following what you're reading.
- 13:58Who is your support system?
- 14:00So that can look like therapy,
- 14:01dieticians,
- 14:02other kind of group um programs.
- 14:06That's something I think we need more of in our field is more community based care.
- 14:10Um not just that's something you have to pay for.
- 14:14Ideally,
- 14:14it's something that's free and open to all people who are wanting to explore.
- 14:19So it's more time,
- 14:21more exposure and community.
- 14:24Um Again,
- 14:25relational neuroscience shows us we are community based humans,
- 14:31right?
- 14:31We need each other and it shows that healing actually deepens,
- 14:35we actually become more embodied when we have people when we have connection and community.
- 14:41So we can't do it alone.
- 14:44So I know that you're,
- 14:45you're,
- 14:46you know,
- 14:46addressing this with clinicians um here at the conference thinking about your clients um,
- 14:53how do you broach this topic when,
- 14:56when perhaps they have existed in a body that they haven't trusted?
- 15:02Yes.
- 15:03Yeah.
- 15:03Or it's the body that they've been told not to trust.
- 15:07Right.
- 15:08So that I do that reframing,
- 15:11I mean,
- 15:11first validating,
- 15:12of course,
- 15:13like,
- 15:13absolutely.
- 15:15Um,
- 15:15I'm in a small fat body and so with clients who are in a larger size body than me,
- 15:20we talk about that difference,
- 15:22that power difference just in the room.
- 15:24Um What is it like to talk with someone in a smaller body?
- 15:27Um And again,
- 15:29wanting to make sure that felt sense of safety is there first.
- 15:33Um So at that neuro acceptive level,
- 15:35I keep talking about neuroscience is so important and that takes time and that takes a lot of time and again,
- 15:44shifting the internalized blame,
- 15:47Externalizing it to anger on the systems,
- 15:50giving some education like why the BM I is BS like here's all of my,
- 15:57you know,
- 15:57I can get on a soapbox and talk about it.
- 15:59Um If they're interested in resources for further learning,
- 16:03I can send them,
- 16:04you know,
- 16:04podcast links,
- 16:06books,
- 16:06all of that stuff.
- 16:07Um But again,
- 16:08it's just that reframing,
- 16:11it's not you,
- 16:12you're not the problem.
- 16:13The system is the problem.
- 16:15A lot of trauma work.
- 16:16Yeah,
- 16:16it starts really early.
- 16:18I mean,
- 16:18most people I think start to know or we're told their body was a problem before age 10.
- 16:24So it's going back to those experiences when,
- 16:26when ready and really holding space in a,
- 16:29in a more,
- 16:30you know,
- 16:31safe environment.
- 16:32Um,
- 16:33if there's any,
- 16:35you know,
- 16:35destabilization with eating disorder behaviors working on that as best we can.
- 16:40There's a lot.
- 16:41We do a lot.
- 16:44Yeah.
- 16:44And the work is so needed.
- 16:46It's so important.
- 16:47Yes.
- 16:48Yeah.
- 16:49I think,
- 16:49um why it's great that there's podcasts like this out there.
- 16:53So as many people as possible can start to recognize this is not,
- 16:59you know,
- 16:59a rare experience,
- 17:01disordered eating happens rather frequently.
- 17:05Um It is just,
- 17:07you know,
- 17:08condon,
- 17:09it's just expected.
- 17:10It's just um,
- 17:12what exactly?
- 17:14Yeah,
- 17:16it's encouraged.
- 17:17It's prescribed even.
- 17:19Yes.
- 17:20Um,
- 17:20and so I think it's important for people to first even know like you don't have to be um,
- 17:28holding so much shame about your body that it's not you.
- 17:31You're not the problem.
- 17:35Beautiful.
- 17:36Thank you so much.
- 17:37Yes.
- 17:37Thank you all.
- 17:39Would you be willing to come back?
- 17:41Absolutely.
- 17:45Would love to.
- 17:46Yes,
- 17:46there's a lot we could unpack here.
- 17:48Oh,
- 17:48my goodness.
- 17:49Yeah,
- 17:49truly.
- 17:50Well,
- 17:50thank you so much na and so much luck to you tomorrow.
- 17:55I hope you enjoy it.
- 17:56I'm so looking forward to it and um,
- 18:00for the those who are coming or came,
- 18:03hopefully you all enjoyed it and I promise last session of the conference will try to be a great,
- 18:09have a good time.
- 18:11What a great way to end the conference.
- 18:14Thank you.
- 18:15Thank you.
- 18:20Thank you for listening with us today on All Bodies All Foods presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.
- 18:26We're looking forward to you joining us next time as we continue these conversations.