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Sam Dean: NIWA climate scientist on Air New Zealand ditching their 2030 climate targets · Best of Business

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News talksed be follow
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  Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
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  Speaker 2: Let's talk about what's up with Air New Zealand. They
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  Speaker 2: are ditching their carbon reduction targets. So they're going to
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  Speaker 2: withdraw from a science based target's initiative that they have
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  Speaker 2: only been in for two years now. They plan to
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  Speaker 2: cut carbon intensity twenty eight point nine percent by twenty thirty.
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  Speaker 2: But now the airline says we're not going to do that.
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  Speaker 2: We're not going to get our new fuel efficient planes
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  Speaker 2: until later, and the affordability of alternative fuels is also
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  Speaker 2: an issue, so it's off the table. So to talk
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  Speaker 2: about this, I'm joined by Sam Dean, who is a
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  Speaker 2: principal scientist for Climate from newha Sam, Welcome to the show.
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  Speaker 3: Good evening, Andrew Margot, it were.
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  Speaker 2: You surprised at this or was it writing pretty much
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  Speaker 2: on the wall really because of many.
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  Speaker 3: Reasons, Yeah, I mean many reasons. I think reducing emissions
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  Speaker 3: in aviation is one of the biggest challenges. You know,
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  Speaker 3: they don't have many choices. They fundamentally their business is
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  Speaker 3: about flying planes and as they as they openly said,
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  Speaker 3: they're dependent on a whole lot of things that are
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  Speaker 3: out of their control with new planes, whether they're available
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  Speaker 3: to buy and access to buy a fuel that are
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  Speaker 3: cheap enough rate that they can actually run their business economically.
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  Speaker 2: And the fact of the matter is that New Zealanders
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  Speaker 2: still want to fly. New Zealanders still want to get
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  Speaker 2: on a plane, and they want to go to Tuscany,
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  Speaker 2: and they want to go all over the world. And
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  Speaker 2: they have not They have not stopped their travel bug
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  Speaker 2: in any way, shape or form. And Air New Zealand
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  Speaker 2: have responded to to the demand, which is a mandate,
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  Speaker 2: which is kind of like a mandate for Air New
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  Speaker 2: Zealand to go out there and burn.
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  Speaker 3: Air New Zealand's business is about flying people and the
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  Speaker 3: more people that fly, the more money it will make.
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  Speaker 3: They are talking about their intensity, so you know, how
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  Speaker 3: much is you know per person traveling? What what what
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  Speaker 3: that that that efficiency is and how much emissions are
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  Speaker 3: associated with it? But yes, they're if they grow more
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  Speaker 3: flying New Zealanders. We're a small country at the you know,
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  Speaker 3: trade is important to us, travel is important to us,
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  Speaker 3: Interconnectivity is important to us. But that doesn't mean we
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  Speaker 3: don't need to reduce emissions, right, so it's going to
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  Speaker 3: If we don't do it in aviation, you know, we're
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  Speaker 3: going to have to do it in other sector of
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  Speaker 3: the economy.
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  Speaker 2: We have a unique thing quite right air New Zealand
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  Speaker 2: and New Zealanders have no other options. You know, if
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  Speaker 2: you're in Croatia, you can get somewhere on a train
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  Speaker 2: and it's powered by electricity. But we are on three islands,
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  Speaker 2: four if you count the Chathams, right in the middle
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  Speaker 2: of the ocean. The only way where you can really
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  Speaker 2: get out and about and do this stuff isn't a plane.
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  Speaker 3: I agree, it's very difficult for New Zealand, but you
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  Speaker 3: know that's so reducing. It's good that the New Zealand
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  Speaker 3: is being upfront and saying they don't see how they
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  Speaker 3: can meet those targets at the stage. They're being honest
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  Speaker 3: and upfront and so flying remains an unfriendly climate activity,
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  Speaker 3: but we're going to have to reduce some missions somehow.
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  Speaker 3: So it just puts pressure on us to reduce them
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  Speaker 3: in other ways. And there are things in transport, you know,
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  Speaker 3: where we have technologies like electric vehicles on the shelf
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  Speaker 3: that are you know, only marginally more expensive than petrol.
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  Speaker 3: Vehicles and things like that where we can make productions
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  Speaker 3: and emissions.
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  Speaker 2: True, it would help if we finished off the electrification
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  Speaker 2: of the main railway, of course, which we started and
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  Speaker 2: then stopped and have never finished. But there we go.
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  Speaker 2: But here's the thing, abs.
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  Speaker 3: Completely air.
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  Speaker 2: New Zealand has talked a lot about wanting to become
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  Speaker 2: more sustainable. They hired a chief sustainability officer, They've got
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  Speaker 2: former Climate Change Minister James Shaw who's clipping the ticket
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  Speaker 2: as an advisor. But as you said, the entire model
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  Speaker 2: is antithetic to ever achieving that. So you know, there's
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  Speaker 2: a bit of virtue signaling in the whole thing, don't
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  Speaker 2: you think.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, in the long term they may well
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  Speaker 3: have options to reduce emissions. I guess they're signaling out
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  Speaker 3: to two thousand and thirty. They don't see themselves achieving
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  Speaker 3: the target the obviously set. But this is a this
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  Speaker 3: is a big question. I feel like this is the decade, right,
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  Speaker 3: this is the time where the rubber is hitting the road,
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  Speaker 3: where these great ambitions that people have put down on
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  Speaker 3: the table reducing emissions are coming coming up against the
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  Speaker 3: reality of how hard that's going to be. I mean
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  Speaker 3: New Zealand has made in a commitment under the Paris Agreement,
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  Speaker 3: and we don't expect to meet that as the reduction
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  Speaker 3: of emissions in New Zealand. So we're the only way
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  Speaker 3: to do that that is to buy offshore and that's
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  Speaker 3: going to be hit this extensive. We don't want to
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  Speaker 3: do that.
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  Speaker 2: As a pression problem here as well as a precedent though.
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  Speaker 2: This is quite awkward really because other companies will look
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  Speaker 2: at what Air New Zealand has done and possibly feel
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  Speaker 2: emboldened by that pullback and says, well, look, any Zealand's
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  Speaker 2: not doing it, why should I?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's it's a New Zealand wants it.
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  Speaker 3: I think Any New Zealand is genuine and its desire
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  Speaker 3: and commitment to reduce its carbon intensity. It's saying it
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  Speaker 3: doesn't have pull available CASKID you can't do so economically
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  Speaker 3: at the moment in the short next five to six years.
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  Speaker 3: I think we have to keep telling the story that
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  Speaker 3: in other parts of the New Zealand economy we do
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  Speaker 3: have options to reduce emissions economically and can do so.
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  Speaker 3: And yes, there is a risk, as you highlighted that
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  Speaker 3: people see this as you know that they can't do it,
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  Speaker 3: why should I work in anyone? It's all hopeless. I
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  Speaker 3: don't think we can look at it that way. I
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  Speaker 3: think there are real opportunities. It's just going to it
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  Speaker 3: just was always the case that aviation was extremely difficult,
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  Speaker 3: and it's probably the last problem we're going to be
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  Speaker 3: able to solve because electric planes are not really yet feasible.
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  Speaker 2: Sam. Thank you so much. Thank you for your work.
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  Speaker 2: Sam as the principal scientist for Climate for Climate at NEEWA.
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