Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #521 Legacy and Lessons: Reflecting on Pope John Paul The Great, with Father Jeffrey Kirby

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#521 Legacy and Lessons: Reflecting on Pope John Paul The Great, with Father Jeffrey Kirby · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I am so excited and grateful to have Father Jeffrey Kirby on today's show.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like I know him already from watching his homilies on YouTube.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: He has a daily devotional called the Morning Offering with Father Kirby.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: He's written several books, including Kingdom of Happiness Living the Beatitudes in Everyday Life.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Father Kirby is a moral theologian pastor of Our Lady of Grace Parish in Indian Land, south Carolina.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Father, welcome, it's so good to have you on the show.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, likewise Thank you for this invitation.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Well, you know that bio was definitely a short version.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Father, you know I know your longer bile and I thought you know half the show.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: It would take half the show to go through it.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: You're really an accomplished, but I will say this even more You're a very courageous and a joyful priest.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I just feel like I know you and my heart goes out to you, and those people must be grateful for you.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Father, for speaking the truth.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I gave a parish mission.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember the name of the parish, but it was in Anderson, so I guess that's more toward the mountains, right?
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: How far away is that from you, father?
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Probably about an hour or so.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: That's probably St Joseph's in Anderson.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: That was awesome and I did a Theology of the Body mission right after COVID coming out of COVID, so I try to remember the priest's name and see if you know him.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: You think I can remember my goodness gracious Father Phil Gillespie.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, wonderful priest.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wonderful priest.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Glad he's my brother in the priesthood.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes yes, plus, it was just nice.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: It was beautiful country down there.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: You know it's beautiful down there.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: So, father, you wrote an article for the Catholic Thing titled John Paul, who I thought, oh my gosh.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: You know I wanted to get Father on so many times but he's so busy.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: But this time have to reach out to you and thank you for taking the time to come on Tell us a little bit about that article and what prompted you to write it.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this past summer, so earlier this summer, my niece graduated high school and you know 18 and you know young Catholic and in conversations and I've had multiple conversations with this niece through the years and stuff like that.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I mean she only lives about an hour and a half from me, so I see my sister and this niece on a regular basis, but oftentimes we're talking about family things and sometimes I bring up aspects of the faith.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to recall if I ever spoke to her explicitly about John Paul II and I'm not sure if I did or it was in passing, but while we were preparing for graduation, I was quoting, just mentioning the life of John Paul II, quoting something about his call to young people, you know, to live that adventure in Jesus Christ, and I said you know John Paul II.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: And my niece said you know John Paul, you know.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I said John Paul II and she said you know John Paul, who right?
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: And I thought she was joking.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: And I she said you know john paul, who right?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: And I thought she was joking.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: And I thought you know john paul ii, the pope, and she said I thought francis was the pope.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, francis is our pope now, thanks be to god, but john paul ii was one of our greatest popes.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Like he, he was just a few decades ago and she had no immediate recollection of John Paul II and I just you know, and that response, when I said John Paul II, she said John Paul who.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I said I have to write about this.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: And there have been other things, just in terms of his legacy being eclipsed or not being highlighted, that he lived such an abundant life.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: He is the best response to secularism today.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: And I just felt compelled to write this article.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: And that was the lead-in story because it was finally what prompted me.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I've had this.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: You know how it is when we want to write something.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: It's in the back of my mind the whole time like, oh, this happens or that doesn't happen.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: But it was that encounter with my niece that I said you know, I need to clear my mind.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I need to sit down, make this timeline.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I need to write this because this is one of the greatest popes in the history of the Catholic Church, one of the longest serving popes.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: This is one of the council fathers of Vatican II.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: This is a man who implemented Vatican II and ushered the church in.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: For the 21st century.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: This is a man who just loved life.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, he was a skier, he was an outdoorsman, he was a poet, he was a philosopher.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Again, that abundant life when secularism tells us well, if you follow Jesus Christ, it gets boring and it's strict and they hold you back and you feel repressed.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: John Paul II just destroys all those caricatures and shows us the abundant life in Jesus Christ.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for that.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: And of course he used all of those different talents and those gifts, including his experiences of Nazism and communism.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: And then I remember, in essence just paraphrasing, but he said what communism and Marxism could not do, which is take down marriage and the family.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: He saw very prophetically, father, didn't he that?
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: He said the sexual revolution and what was coming after that did I don't know if you know that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: The story he told in 1976, he was here two years before he became Pope, he was a cardinal.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Then he was here for the bicentennial celebration where he gave a talk and he talked about this confrontation coming up.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I'll just read just a little bit about this.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I'll see if you remember this.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I actually you know, when you try to look up the source of this, it's not always easy to find, but I know Dr John Hittinger from the University of St Thomas in Houston and they have a John Paul II studies there now, a graduate program there, and so he was in an audience when John Paul said this and I won't read the whole thing, but he said I wonder if the wide circles of American society or wide circles of Christian community realize this.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: We're now facing the final confrontation between the church and the anti-church of the gospel versus the anti-gospel, and this confrontation lies within divine providence.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: The reason I bring that up, father, is that you mentioned in this article, you wonder, if the legacy of John Paul II, the disappearance of John Paul's legacy, as you write, is an act of omission or commission, and I wonder if that's not in divine providence.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Not that God wants this, but this is a battle between good and evil and John Paul's voice was so clear, like you said, and he's trying to be twisted and distorted in so many eyes now.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: What were you thinking?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Were you thinking any of that when you were writing here?
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Is that kind of like a?
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I'll leave you with this last point, as we're going on and trying to bring Theology of the Body into parishes.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: We've got all these different ideas to bring it in.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: It's a battle to get into some of these parishes and you just, you know we sit back sometimes.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Of course, you know we get into them, but it's not just like we just walk in the door and everybody goes oh yeah, theology of the body, or John Paul's, if you were taught of splendor, or you know evangelium vitae, you know whatever?
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: No, no, not.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: You know, we're kind of busy right now, you know.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: So what are you thinking when you wrote that?
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you know.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: At first, I just you know, when John Paul II first died it was very common for a lot of people to refer to John Paul the Great and it was very popular, it was an accepted nomenclature.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: And then when he was canonized it kind of received another boost.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: But then, just with that title it began to fade.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: And now oftentimes if someone refers to John Paul the Great, people are kind of like they're caught off guard or they're not sure like what are you talking about?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: And so of the many things I want to talk about, just that, the fact that you know the title of the great Magnus is given by the people of God, that's not a formal decree and it was given.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: The people of God gave that title to John Paul, you know, when he died, like John Paul the Great.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: And the fact that it has not been nurtured, especially by church leadership, it's begun to fade, especially as the younger generation comes and they don't know about John Paul II.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: So just the fact that his title, magnus the Great, has been, in my opinion, kind of stripped from him by omission, and then also I wonder what has to happen for him finally to be declared the 38th doctor of the church.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, when you look at this man's life, I mean from the time he was a young man, as you mentioned, this man who lived under Nazism, communism he's worked for the communists.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: He's at the stone quarry.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: He's there in that famous picture.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: He's got his shirt off working in the salt quarry and he's wearing the brown scapula.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: This is under communism, you know.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: He studies in a secret seminary and he's eventually ordained, and then his whole life he's constantly arguing for the dignity of the human person.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: He says when he's first elected pope that his task is to take this whole development of the dignity of the human person in the contemporary world and place it within the paschal mystery.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Wow, let's just keep that going right.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's powerful.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, his understanding of the human body, the theology of the body, his catechesis of charity, his development of our social doctrine, his life of witness.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: So I think that there are so many different levels in terms of the universal level, like what has to happen for him to be declared a doctor of the church.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Why has Magnus the Great not become normative language for him?
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: A set nomenclature, and then that trickles down.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: We know how this works.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Then that trickles down.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: We know how this works, it trickles down.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And so you find parishes that won't host things about John Paul II.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Not that they're against John Paul II, it's just, I think, what happens, father, and all of those things.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: We can unpack each one of those things you just mentioned, you know, I mean you can almost do a whole show on each one of those.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: But it's that secularism that you were talking about that's consuming the church's credibility and chiseling away, as you wrote, her influence to convince humanity to accept the gospel.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: When we walk into a church they're so busy, father, you know, I mean everybody's—well, of course, the pastor, unfortunately just because they have so much to do today and very little help right from other priests or the religious no, sisters in many, many parishes, but the staff itself seems to be so tunnel visioned on just their job that the families are suffering all around them, father.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I mean suffering all around them, father.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I mean suffering all around them.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I could show you an email from this morning, you know, from you know some, you know family reaching out.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: You know my son is looking at pornography on the phone.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: What should we do?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: And we have this.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: You know we want to come in and work with parents and, when they're young, to help with their children and just bring these teachings through, you know, trying to get parents here, trying to do this, trying to do that right.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: And so it seems like, along with the legacy that we're pushing down with John Paul II, like you said, the secularism has made its way into the church, and so all of this beautiful teaching is laying there right, the church, and so all of this beautiful teaching is laying there right, just like you said, to bring in, you know what is that Father in these parishes?
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I firmly believe that the Holy Spirit called the Second Vatican Council to prepare us for the onslaught of secularism.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: You know, the Second Vatican Council was the 21st Ecumenical Council in the history of the church and the expression even then, in the 1960s, was the 21st council for the 21st century.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: And.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I think that the cult you know formed a laity to prepare them to understand their baptismal vocation.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: The various reforms and aspects of the life of the church was all to prepare us for secularism.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: John Paul II took that seriously.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: So if you look at his body of teachings, you have the 16 documents of the Second Vatican Council, and then you can look at all of John Paul II's encyclicals, apostolic constitutions, his apostolic letters, all his teachings, and you can see an outline, based on those 16 documents of Vatican II and everything else, where he is just interpreting and applying Vatican II, because he very much understood that Vatican II was this great resource within the life of the Church, and so it was constant implementation, constant explanation, correction of bad implementation, you know, renewal of the renewal and constantly preparing the Church for really for the attack that we find ourselves in in the midst of the world.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what a great point you bring up.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: You know he, in the book Sources of Renewal, he actually implemented this in his diocese as a bishop very successfully.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: You know those two—Father.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you for this, because so many people are throwing Vatican II and all these teachings and I wonder if that's not why they kind of downplayed John Paul II, because, as you said, he implemented these, he understood this, and these two things that always stay in my mind, because they were very clear in Vatican II, is the universal call to holiness, and what you just said is to invite the laity to rise up, and this universal call to holiness is their call, and then their call to go spread the gospel.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: We can no longer rely on— and we should have never just relied, you know, on Father Kirby to have to do all the work, right?
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, we shouldn't have, because we didn't bring this into the domestic church, and this was John Paul's call.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Right is to say no, we got to form, you know, the laity so that they bring this into the domestic church, which links to the universal church, and you know the beauty of all of this flows into the domestic church, which links to the universal church, and you know the beauty of all of this flows into the family and then forms the culture and then the nation, and this is what we're seeing break down right across the world.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and I'll share with you that.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: You know, as a pastor, my greatest struggle is trying to find intentional disciples who are ready to serve, so to find leaders.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: And I have a good parish and we're a new parish.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: We're only eight years old, we're the newest parish in the United States and I was here from day one.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: We have a stained glass window of John Paul II.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: And.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I tried to mold and shape my parish based on the vision of Vatican II and the teachings of John Paul II, especially that universal call to holiness, the sense of discipleship.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: But yet, even in that context, my greatest struggle as a pastor is finding well-formed laity, intentional disciples, who want to truly be engaged in authentic ministry.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: And that's the challenge.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: John Paul II, you know, he saw this, he was trying to prepare us for this.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: You know, taking of vatican ii, the teachings of vatican ii, implementing them authentically according to the guidance of the holy spirit, and really preparing the church for this battle.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: So, in many respects, it's because that mantle was dropped that we find ourselves unprepared.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: You know, we should, we should have been skilled and ready to go.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: It's like come on, come on, secularism, on secularism, what you got you?
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: know what.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: And yet we find the vast majority of the baptized are being swept away by the secularism, and oftentimes we find even among our own, some of our better Catholic Christians, even a spirit of compromise, you know, and the secularism that we find and all the issues that come with that, whether it's abortion or gay marriage or whatever it might be, transgenderism.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Now we find that Catholic Christians, you should know better, oftentimes find themselves compromised.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: And all this John Paul II was trying to prepare us for.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're exactly right, learning very clearly now in this, in everything you just described, that if you compromise, if you're lukewarm, you know revelation right, you know I wish you were hot or cold.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: If you're lukewarm, I'll spit you out.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: You always, I always wondered father, I go.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: That doesn't sound fair, you know right, at least I'm trying.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Well, of course christ knew that.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: You know, when you start to compromise you're going to go down this rabbit hole and this kind of a spiral of you know God aimeth best, you know, when God has forgotten, the creature itself grows unintelligible.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: We don't know who we are.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: This gets back to your talk about human dignity.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: You know, when you understand human dignity, which the founding fathers of our country understood, human dignity right.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: When you don't understand it, you can kill a child in the womb, marriage is rendered meaningless and you think, well, okay, well, whatever.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Well, no, you know, you mentioned and I know I'll have to be careful here not to go all over, but I have so many, you brought up so much in here.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: You brought up, you know, catholic social teaching and John Paul wrote, you know so well on that, centesimus Annus was sure, on Pope Leo XIII's Rerum Novarum.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: But anyways, the point being, I look at it almost like a triangle in front of you, you know, two-dimensional, with marriage and the family, and Christ and the Church, and then, of course, building up polity right.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: But if you take away human dignity, father, the whole thing starts to crumble, doesn't it?
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: It does it does, In fact, the big joke with John Paul II's encyclical Centensimus Annus, which was the 100th year, because it was the 100th year of the Roman.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Father is.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: It actually was issued the 101st year after, so the joke is that it should be the 101st and the reason why it was a year late was because the wall fell.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: The Berlin Wall fell in 1989.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: The document and there's a whole section in Chantation was almost jet.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: It's entitled the year 1989 and he wants to explain how the wall fell, without bloodshed, without bullets.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: He wants to explain the dignity of a person, that that it that impulse of the human spirit for freedom, for virtue, and he explains and he's answering the question why the Soviet communism fall.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: But he's also trying to explain why raw capitalism and secularism doesn't work.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: It actually hurts humanity.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And so there's a powerful section there about freedom and more goodness and again, what makes a healthy society and what does not.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for bringing that up and reminding us to go back and read that again.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: There's so much there, father.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: When you see something recent like the Olympics, the mockery of the Last Supper, do you think an event like that would have taken place in France if Pope John Paul II was pope?
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: So, you know, what's interesting is when France was celebrating the I think it was the 1500th anniversary or something of the baptism of Clovis, the king of the Franks.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: So he was the first of the barbarian kings to accept the gospel.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: That's why Francis called the eldest daughter of the church he was the first barbarian tribe to accept the gospel.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: And Francis was celebrating the anniversary of the baptism of Clovis, they invited John Paul II and he accepted, and that powerful address he gave.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: He just said sons and daughters of Clovis, what have you done with your baptism?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Wow, you know.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: So, I think, to the entire human family, to every nation, but especially to the French, who have always, at least historically, traditionally, been very close to the heart of the church.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: You know, would some of that have happened?
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Possibly, because we just see France and many other nations just falling into the cesspool of the abandonment of God, moral filth, you know, and this mockery of the sacred which is, you know, the height of that secular spirit.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Would it have happened?
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Possibly, would there have been an immediate response?
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, john Paul II, especially because it's a mock of the Eucharist.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Remember his last encyclical to us, his 14th and final, was on the Eucharist and it's powerful.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: He knows he's dying.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: He dies a year and a half after the encyclical and he's reminding us that the Lord is with us.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: He goes.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I have always found youth and encouragement from the Lord's presence.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Especially the mockery of the Eucharist would have definitely provoked John Paul II to an immediate response.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Because of the mockery of the sacred, because of the mockery of the Eucharist, because you know just the offense of the human body, these men in drag on so many levels, john Paul II would have been swift in his response to this.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: When you see something like that, father, you know that France, of course you know there's.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I saw some young people standing up, you know, and praying now, and maybe it's going to, that's going to be the impetus, you know, for young people again to come up and start to take back their lives, let alone the culture, their lives.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: They have to see where this is going, but I wonder if it's too late, father.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is you know that culture has really changed.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I used to go to France and visit there, and Italy too, and, man, you could see the demographics changing and the loss of the faith, and maybe this is the impetus, and God, of course, can work.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: It's just a mustard seed, but on the other hand, man, it doesn't look good, does it, father?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: For that culture of the nation like this.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: No, it does not.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: And you know the scriptures speak about the remnant.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: You know we look at the Old Testament and many, within the covenant of God, most were compromised, but God always said I will raise up a remnant, I will guard the remnant and I think in the Christian West that's what we're finding is are those small pockets of faithful disciples.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And we've known for a while and there's pretty substantial writing on this, the future of the church is in the south of the world.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: So it's Africa, it's Asia, it's Latin America.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: That's the future of the church and we hope that Europe and the United States will want to play a part in that.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: But the growth of the church, vocations, family life, work, ethic, it's all in the south of the world.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: We really are in many respects finding and witnessing the slow decay of a civilization, the slow decay of a civilization.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems not to be slow anymore, father.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: It seems to be accelerating very, very quickly and we need to wake up.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: But you know, if I'm at a school board meeting just a local school board meeting standing up against some gender ideology or some pornographic book that they're trying to push on young kids and I'm talking about kids, elementary school stuff half of that audience, father, will push back, it seems.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's 50-50, but I would imagine that 50% of our country, it seems like from voting from the polls, are really embracing the secularism that you're talking about and maybe speak a little bit to that.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: But also you mentioned secularism in the church.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: These are probably correlated because the people that we have in the church came out of a culture that's been going downhill for a while.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Are we just products of the culture, father, in a way Hill for a while.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Are we just products of the culture, father, in a way?
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Where do you see this heading?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: And we need John Paul's and kind of.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: You know what can we do?
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Look, and I'm with the John Paul to Renewal Center, so this is very interesting to me to say what else can we do?
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: You know, we're bringing in theology, the body, we're talking about all these different things, but we live in a world where they want just soundbites, right, and sometimes if you're going to speak about the truth, about life, you have to think about it, for a few minutes, you can't just go to the next.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, yes, yes.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And you know.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: This, of course, touches my heart very deeply, because you know my generation of priests we're called the John Paul II generation.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, I was going to ask you about that.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: The seminary under John Paul II and to go to his wisdom.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: He would remind us as a church that we evangelize through culture, and of course he was the chief catechist with that, because he was constantly engaged in aspects of culture as well as the bold proclamation of the gospel.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: I think we look at the secularism of our world and even more in a dire situation, the secularism even within the church, and we can ask well, how does that happen in the church?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: We're supposed to be salt, light and leaven.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: We're supposed to be the difference, right.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: So how does this happen?
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: And the large part is because, well, we never really picked up that mantle and preached and taught the universal call to holiness and we never provided the formation for the laity on the parish level and the local level for the laity to understand what that means.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: John Paul II kept giving us the resources, right.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I read one commentator.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: They said you know, we have all this great teaching on the universal level and then we have the grassroots and there's this middle part.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: And the commentator said what we have is a problem with middle management.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: So it's just not reaching the grassroots, it's not reaching the trenches, and that's regrettable and this is the consequence of that.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: So we have a Trojan horse in the city of God.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: We have secularism, someone that has received the Christian mysteries, who regularly receives Holy Communion, who thinks that they're a good Catholic Christian and yet supports abortion, supports gay marriage, supports IVF, you know, supports cancel culture, you know, and all these other aspects that are diametrically opposed to fundamental beliefs of our faith, and yet they think it's okay, it's acceptable.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And that happens again because there's had something in that formation or that correction and it's regrettable.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: And when the church becomes secular, when we have that component within us, then we don't fulfill the call the Great Commission to go teach all nations.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: So it shouldn't surprise us that we see secularism growing, because secularism has weakened the church.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: When you know, as a laity, we try to take this on and people will ask us you know, like, where do we start?
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: You know we do this presentation Father called Stolen Innocence, and Stolen Innocence is a community awareness event is a community awareness event.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: It's a non-denominational community awareness event where we just show the effects that this culture and the schools are having on children.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: When we do, people will wake up.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: It's kind of shocking.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: And people will wake up and say, okay, what should we do?
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: And we show them two tracks.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: One track is a local community track.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: You know, get the right school board members and library members in, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: But the other one is you have to bring this teaching down to your family.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: You know, if we're not filling up those young people Father and I'm talking about now, we have to get down to puberty and you know when they're coming out of this age of innocence, because that's what the culture is doing is robbing them of their innocence.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: So we have this I hate to even call it a program.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: It's a one-night event where we speak to the parents and tell them about this, and the second night, or two weeks later or three weeks later, they bring their child in and we present what we call love ed to them.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful thing, dads with their boys, moms with their girls, while they're trying to wake these people up and bring them in, when the culture is taking the heart out of children.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: My point being so where do we start?
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Well, we have to start with ourselves and our own family because, again, getting back to that social teaching, you know, if we don't have marriage in the family, we don't have anything.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And so it's really walking into your church, seeing Jesus there, seeing you on the altar, and say, okay, what should we do?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, let's forget about the org chart and let's just draw a line from that beautiful sacrifice of the Mass and bring it right into the Smith home and the Jones home and my home and make the domestic church.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: We have to start there.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: And it's so beautiful.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: But when you lose the heart of the young people, their own hearts are twisted into stories.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: This is diabolical, father, I think you know.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: I think, programs like Love, ed and other programs that are of similar spirit, especially those inspired by John Paul II.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: They try to provide parents with the resources, because parents, we hope, want to talk to their children.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: They want to guard that innocence, they want to make sure that they become mature adults and understand their dignity as human beings and the rightful use of their sexual powers and the beauty of who they are.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: So these programs are being offered, and oftentimes parents either aren't going or there's no impetus or inspiration for them to go, and so parents find themselves trying to speak to their children and they don't have the teachings or the language of the church, and so what they do is they take on the language of a secular culture.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Let me just give you the example of pornography.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: So imagine, you know, a parent catches a child using pornography.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I had an email this morning, Father.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Okay so, and you know a parent's conversation, you know not just the teaching of John Paul II, you know he wrote and this kind of like catches people off guard when they first hear it you know John Paul wrote that the reason why pornography is wrong is not because it shows too much of the person but too little, that it does not show the soul of the person, that the relationships of the person, the dignity of the person.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: It just turns a human being made in the image of God into this raw piece of meat for another person's pleasure.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Right, and there it is Like that.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: That that's something very opposite of love.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the opposite of love.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: And that's something very simple, that from the Christian message, you know, help, you know channeled and and and broke it down for us by John Paul II.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: There's the language of the Christian parent to the Christian young person, right, but imagine if the Christian parent doesn't have that language.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Well, how do they explain to their teenager that this is wrong?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Right, and so oftentimes it's like, well, they're struggling, they're trying to find some other reason.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, well, you shouldn't do that.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: And the teenager's like, well, why, why, why, mom, why, dad, Like, tell me, right.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: And the secularized parent, or the paranoid machine Christian formation?
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: They don't have an explanation.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: So it looks like the gospel doesn't have an explanation.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: So in that context, that Christian young person now is convinced that, well, porn's okay.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: And the church and the gospel?
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: They don't have an answer.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: They just have a bunch of rules trying to keep me away from having pleasure and that's the worst possible message a young person can walk away with.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: And this is the genius of John Paul II he walks in and gives us the vocabulary to speak a love story, father, you know this as well as anybody.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: It's a love story.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: You know, today's reading, one of the options for today's reading, is the first letter of John, and that's such a powerful letter.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: This is chapter four today.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: You know, god is love.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: This is St John discovering God is love.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: John Paul II talked about this all the time.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: It's not that we love God, but that God loved us first, loved us into existence.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: When we understand our passions and desires, right, when a man sees a woman, a woman sees a man.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: God gave us those To your point.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: It's not about no, it's understanding what that yes is.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: And John Paul gave us that vocabulary and he saw this.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Father, you know, maybe we could talk about it for a couple of minutes.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: You know, when John Paul became Pope, he said you know, I could have stayed in the Vatican.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: People say, well, why didn't he stay in the Vatican and fix all the sexual abuse?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a million issues he could have tried to fix right, which, of course, he did try to fix.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, he worked on those things.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Look, he's one person.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: You know you needed everybody to come in and help, but he said no, I went out because he said, you know, I was just being managed inside and I could have spent all my energy inside or I could have took this beautiful message out to the world.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: And that's what he did.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: You know he took it out to the world, father, and you know you have a little bit of him, probably a lot of him, in you and you're also taking that out in the world, and thank you for that.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: But you know it is this, you know it is this language, we have to speak this language and you do it really well.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Is this?
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: You know it is this language, we have to speak this language and you do it really well.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: And you're picking this up from not only from John Paul.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I know you've studied a lot, father, but you know what particular you know is inspiring you today, from John Paul II and from Vatican II.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I love to hear somebody say something good about Vatican II, right, because you know everybody keeps looking at it and say, well, that was the problem.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: And I just had this conversation with Bishop Athanasius Schneider and he agreed with me.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I said you know, bishop, just like COVID was like a catalyst to unleash evil.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I said Vatican II seems to me not the point.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: The evil was already there.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: It was a catalyst that unleashed some of it.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: But it also unleashed much good.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: And he said I agree with you there.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: And we unpacked it a little bit.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: It was really good.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: So I kind of throw the ball in your court then.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: So if I can talk, you know, first of all, it's interesting Pope Benedict XVI called John Paul II the interpreter of Vatican II.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: John Paul II, the interpreter of Vatican II.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: So you can imagine that while there's so many voices and so many attempts to tell us what Vatican II says and, by the way, oftentimes when that said, I tell people, just go and read Vatican II, they're right there 16 documents you can read that.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Father.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: But also just to realize that Benedict would say if you want to understand Vatican II, obviously read Vatican II.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: But the interpreter was John Paul II, that's it.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: God gave him almost 27 years one of the longest serving popes in the history of the church in order specifically to implement the mission of the Second Vatican Council.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Now, as we talk about John Paul II just know just to share some personal situations I've had yes thank you.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: So first time I saw John Paul II I was living in West Germany.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: I was in the military, we were there as part of the military presence during the Cold War and for a high school trip from West Germany we went to Rome and at the time my family was very sporadic in its practice of the faith and one of the things we did as a school trip was to go to the Wednesday audience and I saw John Paul II and this was you know, it ate me so robust and strong.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I was like that's an amazing person and that's an amazing pope, you know.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: And then fast forward the next time I saw him was 1993 at the World Youth Day and every diocese was allowed to have a VIP youth delegate at the airport.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: When President Clinton arrived and when John Paul II arrived and I was represented for my diocese, the Diocese of Charleston, and so I was there and so I got to see John Paul II and President and Mrs Clinton and folks on John Paul II and that powerful address he gave at Stapleton International Airport where he said America, defend life.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: You know he was just like giving it.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: You know it's like wow, it's like.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: You know, this is like the younger Johnul, that sometimes we can forget.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: When we saw the older john paul, right and and I just remember the young person I'm a junior in high school at this point and just being so inspired by him fast forward with the steubenville end up in rome at the north american college and I got to attend two of the private masses with John Paul II.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: He moved about 30 people in his private chapel as he was doing his morning meditation, as he offered the Eucharist.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: The first time I got to do that, after the mass I went to the library and I got up and all these things I wanted to say to him.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I knelt down and I was like I can't say anything.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I'm Irish, I always have something to say.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I was like I just, it was just.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I was just so caught up in that moment and in you know, holiness can be tangible.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: So the second time I was able to do it, I remembered that.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: First time I was like I've got to say something.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I've got to make sure I say something to him.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: And I kneltelt down, I looked at him and he handed me the rosary and all I could say was holy father, pray for me, right?
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: And he tapped my cheek and he said coraggio, courage, right and be not afraid.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Huh, father, be not afraid.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: That's the best response you could have.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Gave him the silence and also that because he, he understood that.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: He understood that because he could read hearts.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I bet you, standing there with you in front of you, he could read your heart, father, and he was giving you that courage.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: You know, be not afraid.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: You know, when I brought up that kind of prophetic voice of his, you know, talking about divine providence in Philadelphia, two years before he became Pope, that was 1976.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's exactly what you said.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Roe v Wade was on his mind when he talked about that.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: He saw that and that's why I think the Supreme Court decision to put this back in the States is such a big deal because in a way, way, it's a blight off of our whole country, right?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: So we've made, you know, the right to take the life of a child, you know, is bad enough, but I'm not talking about an individual person.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about when we declare that as a law of the land and then to add, you know, to make render marriage meaningless again with another law later on.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: These are the things that will take down the civilization and people don't realize it, do they, father, when you give up the dignity of a person?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I think part of the violence that we see today and the indignation, the way people speak, the way they spoke after the assassination attempt on Trump whether you like Trump or not you don't say you know the problem was the or not you don't say you know the problem was the bullet missed his head.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, father, this is really and I think it's like I said, it's half the country and that's why I you know, we always have hope, you know we know where we're going, so we have hope for that.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: But I just sense there's a lot of people that have fallen for the lies today.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: And recall that when John Paul II addressed the United Nations for his millennial address, as we prepared for the year 2000,.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: That's how John Paul II described himself.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: He says I come before you as a witness to hope.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: As a witness to hope, a hope for a better humanity, a hope for human dignity, a hope in the creativity and the power of the human spirit to achieve peace and a civilization of love.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: I come to you as a witness to hope.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: That's what we're calling as Christians, witnesses to hope.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: We can look at the secularism and the struggle and the battle and at times when it looks like evil has won.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: And we stand as witnesses to hope.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: And we have that encouragement in John Paul II, who was the greatest, is to help.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: And we have that encouragement in John Paul II, who was the greatest.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: No one would have ever imagined that Soviet communism would fall, that the Eastern Bloc would be free, that Germany would be reunited.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: No one could imagine that, except John Paul II.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: He knew it would happen and he stood as a witness to hope.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: So as we wind down here, father and I you know the time goes so fast, but I'm cognizant of your time, all the work that you do.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: You probably summed it up right there witnessed the hope, but here's just to make it very practical for people on Sunday, after witnessing this mockery again of the Last Supper.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: There know there's a lot of things you can call for, and so I did this little.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: You know our audience is going to expect something from me, and so you know I was just inspired by the readings from Sunday, which John the Baptist feeding the 5,000, or not John St John describing the feeding of the 5,000, and then just brought it right into John6 in the teaching on the Eucharist.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: And then I went to St Luke and really explained to people what was going on there at the Last Supper and ended with a little couple paragraphs from the Book of Revelation.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: And I think that's a way John Paul II would have dealt with.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Something like that is to remind people of their dignity again and the sacrifice that our Lord loved them so much.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: It's amazing, isn't it, father, that our Lord loves us so much that he would pour himself totally out to us and that was the Last Supper and then give us the Eucharist, give us his body and blood to take with us.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: You know, when you start to unpack it that way, it makes perfect sense.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: You know why would he give us the Eucharist?
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: What is this all about?
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Well, he's going to.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: He said I'll be with you and I'm going to pour myself out and I'm going to give you, you know, you know this intimacy.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: You know, and it makes perfect sense when you do that, and it makes perfect sense, then, if you're going to destroy humanity, first you take down marriage and the family right and then you go right after christ.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Who?
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Who created this right?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: They were created in the imago dei.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: So it all makes sense, father, doesn't?
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: And I think what you said and I'll and I'll leave you with the last words of this is to bring that, that beauty of that love and hope.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: And you know, because this is what's going to touch young people's hearts, isn't it, father?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: You know, when you taught of the pornography and they heard the church say no, this is how we say yes, yes, we're looking for, you know, john Paul, you're looking for something more right, something more.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: It's not enough.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: And then, as we conclude, the one thing that is on my heart, that always motivates me with John Paul II is his motto totus tuus, all yours, everything to Jesus, to Our Lady, all yours.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And he lived that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: He saw the Lord, lived that the Lord, as we said, gave everything.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: And as Christians, we're called to do the same, and John Paul II modeled that for us Code is to us all yours everything for Jesus Christ through our Lady.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, father, thank you so much.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you for your time.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I could talk to you forever.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask people you know, father, you know your YouTube.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Are you doing?
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Are you putting up all your homilies on YouTube?
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Yet Are you doing that?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: The Sunday homilies are on Grace Lily Productions on YouTube Okay.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: And your daily meditation is on YouTube.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: I know right.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Are you putting it anywhere else?
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Do they go?
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Is that the best place to find them?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: It's on YouTube, but it's on all the other outlets, so Spotify, Apple Podcasts it's pretty much everywhere people might find their podcasts.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: They can find Morning Offering with Father Kirby.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Well, god bless you, father.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks for writing that article, thanks for being such a joy and courageous, and I'll just say that to you again just like John Paul said courage, we all need courage.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Father, would you leave us with a blessing?
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: It's important to us.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: My pleasure.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: May the Lord bless you and keep you, may he let his face shine upon you, may he grant you his peace, and may Almighty God bless you, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Amen, Father, thank you so much.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Goodbye everyone.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today.