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Deadly-Consequences-of-Meeting-an-Online-Boyfriend-True-Crime-Documentary · The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories

0:00
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm have his life even a live lie?
0:36
Speaker 2: At first, he was like presented himself pretty well.
0:39
Speaker 3: I mean they had known each other for so long.
0:41
Speaker 3: I felt like we all knew him, really.
0:52
Speaker 1: You.
1:06
Speaker 3: I think I always had a gut feeling and I
1:08
Speaker 3: should have listened.
1:12
Speaker 2: It's still a.
1:13
Speaker 4: Struggle because I have a piece of meat missing.
1:28
Speaker 2: Mom. Say hi, Mom, say hi.
1:30
Speaker 5: To the camera.
1:33
Speaker 3: As she was a dream child, very self sufficient, learned
1:38
Speaker 3: everything without me showing her as she was always i'd say,
1:42
Speaker 3: my easy one, no offense to Haley.
1:45
Speaker 6: She was always happy and fun and full of life.
1:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've always been friends. We were sisters, so.
1:56
Speaker 5: What you mom?
1:58
Speaker 3: Look, she was my lieon She was fierce loyal, always
2:04
Speaker 3: wanting to stick up for her sister, her friends.
2:08
Speaker 5: We just always did everything together, and she was kind
2:13
Speaker 5: of like that person to push me out of my
2:15
Speaker 5: comfort zone. She wanted a lot of life, whether she
2:18
Speaker 5: knew what she wanted or not. She was always determined
2:21
Speaker 5: to find her purpose. She had different boyfriends here and there.
2:27
Speaker 5: We would, you know, go to the mall together and go,
2:31
Speaker 5: you know, scope out all the cute guys.
2:34
Speaker 3: I think, probably like most girls ten eleven twelve, the
2:37
Speaker 3: interests like oh he's cute, and I'd hear them giggly.
2:42
Speaker 5: I became aware of Jack when we were about twelve
2:45
Speaker 5: years old in grade eight, and that he was from
2:50
Speaker 5: the UK.
2:51
Speaker 4: And that he was just like the nicest guy ever.
2:55
Speaker 5: And she thought he was cute and I was like, okay, yeah,
2:58
Speaker 5: whatever interesting.
2:59
Speaker 3: To So I did speak to Jack and yeah, he
3:05
Speaker 3: was young too.
3:07
Speaker 7: At the time, Ashley, it was forming this connection with
3:10
Speaker 7: cepal on the internet. I think initially just out of curiosity.
3:13
Speaker 7: You know, this is someone from a different part of
3:15
Speaker 7: the world she'd never be and she never visited. And
3:17
Speaker 7: also he was a slightly older boy. He was fifteen
3:20
Speaker 7: and she was twelve, and she was interested, maybe excited,
3:25
Speaker 7: and Jack gave her attention.
3:27
Speaker 6: They enjoyed talking with each other and like arly just
3:32
Speaker 6: enjoyed each other's company and like I got to see
3:35
Speaker 6: him and like he would talk with me, but he
3:38
Speaker 6: was okay, like it.
3:39
Speaker 2: Was all right.
3:42
Speaker 3: And then it kind of developed into I knew she
3:44
Speaker 3: had a crush on him, but it wasn't serious. I
3:46
Speaker 3: don't think until i'd say about fifteen sixteen. I did
3:58
Speaker 3: question him times, like what is it about Ashley that
4:02
Speaker 3: you like? And he would say everything. She just I
4:05
Speaker 3: wish she was here, and it's her eyes, her personality.
4:09
Speaker 3: We don't have girls like that here.
4:13
Speaker 5: Because he always wanted to be on the phone with
4:15
Speaker 5: her and texting her and talking to her, it was
4:18
Speaker 5: like the first person to really like give her all
4:21
Speaker 5: that attention, and being so young, you don't really know
4:25
Speaker 5: the whole world of relationships yet.
4:42
Speaker 7: Though Settle was only three years older than her, I
4:45
Speaker 7: do think because of that developmental gap between those ages,
4:49
Speaker 7: he's really in a position of power there. Though perhaps
4:52
Speaker 7: not intentionally, it does mimic some of the signs of grooming.
4:57
Speaker 3: I did have some concerns, but I honestly didn't think
5:00
Speaker 3: they'd ever meet.
5:10
Speaker 5: I first spoke to him when they had had some
5:14
Speaker 5: sort of falling out. He had messaged me to ask
5:18
Speaker 5: me to talk to Ashley to get her attention, to
5:21
Speaker 5: like speak to him or get his message across to her.
5:25
Speaker 5: You know, he had these ex girlfriends and he would
5:29
Speaker 5: talk about them to her, or they would call her
5:32
Speaker 5: to contact her about what he's doing, and I would
5:36
Speaker 5: just tell her it's not her problem.
5:40
Speaker 3: And I would say to her, you can't expect him
5:43
Speaker 3: in eighteen year old seventeen to not date anyone and
5:46
Speaker 3: vice versa. He would because he would get mad at
5:48
Speaker 3: her and I said, you guys can't control each her
5:51
Speaker 3: because that's just not healthy, and they would say yeah,
5:54
Speaker 3: and then so then they wouldn't talk for like six months,
5:57
Speaker 3: So they didn't talk all the time. So when he
5:59
Speaker 3: had a reallylationship where she did, I know, they didn't speak.
6:11
Speaker 5: He was definitely dating this girl. And she had contacted
6:15
Speaker 5: Ashley asking for her help and to talk to Jack
6:19
Speaker 5: because he was being violent towards her. But she had
6:24
Speaker 5: locked herself in the bathroom and contacted Ashley and knew
6:29
Speaker 5: that she could potentially help and calm him down to
6:32
Speaker 5: then let her leave the house. It kind of felt
6:37
Speaker 5: like she knew that this had happened before, but this
6:40
Speaker 5: is the first I had heard about something to this extent.
6:48
Speaker 5: He would get like frustrated over the littlest things, like
6:53
Speaker 5: if she had been talking to another guy, whether it
6:56
Speaker 5: was a friend or somebody that was made and her
7:00
Speaker 5: family and he didn't know who it was, that he
7:02
Speaker 5: would get quite short tempered with her and get mad
7:05
Speaker 5: about it. Actually, she wouldn't take that if she had
7:10
Speaker 5: blogged him and didn't want to speak to him. He'd
7:12
Speaker 5: find an alternate way to contact her by making a
7:15
Speaker 5: new profile on Facebook or on Instagram.
7:21
Speaker 8: M h.
7:30
Speaker 3: M hmm.
7:33
Speaker 9: To him by coming back this fuck thing in my egg.
7:37
Speaker 10: I'm gonna.
7:48
Speaker 9: I'm not it's gonna have.
7:52
Speaker 8: Friend. I'm gonna, I'm gonna murderer.
8:00
Speaker 5: That was honestly awful, like and at the moment, we
8:03
Speaker 5: thought this guy is just nuts.
8:06
Speaker 7: But Ashley kind of brushed a lot of this off.
8:09
Speaker 7: She would talk to her friends about it, but they
8:11
Speaker 7: would laugh around it. And I think, really that shows
8:14
Speaker 7: how young Ashley is because she really wasn't picking this
8:18
Speaker 7: up as how problematic it really was.
8:21
Speaker 5: And so I didn't really think much of it afterwards,
8:25
Speaker 5: because you know, again, like what what is this guy
8:31
Speaker 5: actually gonna do?
8:32
Speaker 2: Or he's not your.
8:54
Speaker 3: It always went back to Jack everything, every guy who
8:59
Speaker 3: they were, never him, and vice versa with him with her, Yes,
9:07
Speaker 3: sure she'll.
9:09
Speaker 4: Love him.
9:11
Speaker 1: Interview h.
9:28
Speaker 4: M hm, I'm going to take.
9:37
Speaker 3: Soup.
9:39
Speaker 2: So looking you cry in.
9:43
Speaker 4: You haven't the idea.
9:52
Speaker 3: She'd never want to stay and burned. She was always
9:54
Speaker 3: going to leave. She was so excited, started shopping m hm,
10:00
Speaker 3: doing makeup tutorials. I'm going to meet them and I
10:02
Speaker 3: have to look good.
10:03
Speaker 6: I thought it would be a really great opportunity for
10:06
Speaker 6: her to like get more experience and travel. And yeah, I.
10:13
Speaker 2: Thought it was a really great thing.
10:15
Speaker 3: And I said, text me and when you get to
10:17
Speaker 3: Calgary for the transfer, so I know that you made
10:21
Speaker 3: it to there, and then just text me along the way.
10:24
Speaker 3: And she said okay, and she kissed kiss my head
10:27
Speaker 3: and said I love you, and I said I love you.
10:32
Speaker 6: We picked up my dad and then we all drove
10:34
Speaker 6: to the Colonna airport.
10:36
Speaker 2: She was really excited.
10:38
Speaker 3: Did I think they'd work or be madly in love
10:40
Speaker 3: or last forever fairy tale? No, but I thought, I
10:44
Speaker 3: guess you'll have to learn. But I did have my
10:47
Speaker 3: reservations because you don't know someone as much as you
10:51
Speaker 3: think you do. And they did talk. You can't know
10:53
Speaker 3: someone until you meet them.
10:55
Speaker 5: I felt really overwhelmed, like I don't know what really
10:58
Speaker 5: came over me, but it was very It was unpleasant,
11:03
Speaker 5: like my stomach sang. I don't know why that came
11:06
Speaker 5: over me, but I had this gut feeling that I
11:10
Speaker 5: just knew something bad was going to happen.
11:43
Speaker 3: She messaged me as soon as she got off. They
11:46
Speaker 3: were together and she kind of held her phone up
11:49
Speaker 3: and they did a smiley face and yeah, they were hugging,
11:52
Speaker 3: and then she was texting me on the ride home.
11:55
Speaker 3: My god, he's so nice and he you know, so
11:58
Speaker 3: I was happy that it was went good at the
12:00
Speaker 3: first meeting.
12:02
Speaker 7: At this point, Ashley's been communicating with Settle for six years,
12:06
Speaker 7: so this is an unimaginable amount of build up. You
12:10
Speaker 7: can only imagine the combination of excitement, of nerves of
12:15
Speaker 7: fear that she was feeling when she went on this
12:17
Speaker 7: journey to the UK.
12:27
Speaker 6: He'p had told me and my mom on FaceTime before
12:30
Speaker 6: she left, I'll protect her and I'll guard her with
12:32
Speaker 6: my life like I won't like, I'll make sure she's
12:36
Speaker 6: good and I'm like, okay, like call if you ever
12:39
Speaker 6: have any problems and stuff like I trusted him at
12:44
Speaker 6: that point.
12:45
Speaker 7: The irony is the family probably actually felt reassured that
12:49
Speaker 7: Ashley had Settle. Lots of eighteen year olds go on
12:51
Speaker 7: gap years and go to countries where they know no one.
12:55
Speaker 3: I tried to give her her space, but we would
12:57
Speaker 3: talk every couple of days, every day she wanted, and
13:00
Speaker 3: she would show me, Yeah, take look at the cobble streets.
13:04
Speaker 3: Everything's like it said, look at this old building.
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Speaker 8: Mom.
13:08
Speaker 3: Now, in my mind, if it was going to be bad,
13:14
Speaker 3: it would be the first week. Like if there wasn't
13:16
Speaker 3: a connection, then we would just fly her home and
13:19
Speaker 3: we'll get her over him.
13:20
Speaker 5: Finally, well, I had received some videos from her on Snapchat,
13:27
Speaker 5: you know, showing that they were hanging out, and they
13:30
Speaker 5: seemed happy and she was smiling.
13:36
Speaker 6: Kiss mine.
13:40
Speaker 2: Oh, I wanted to get your bird back.
13:42
Speaker 5: My worries kind of like subsided a bit seeing that
13:45
Speaker 5: things were going so good, not anything that would raise
13:48
Speaker 5: any red flags from what I was.
13:50
Speaker 3: Seeing, and everything into December was good, good Christmas. He
13:56
Speaker 3: bought a tree and got her the cat. She loves cats,
14:00
Speaker 3: is excited, so it all seemed rosy at first, I.
14:04
Speaker 5: Guess from what I knew, they were home like a
14:18
Speaker 5: lot of days, which is fine. But I wasn't really
14:22
Speaker 5: familiar too much with what they were doing at home,
14:26
Speaker 5: other than a couple of videos of maybe him playing
14:29
Speaker 5: on a gaming console in the background while we're chatting.
14:33
Speaker 3: And then I had heard from Haley that they weren't
14:36
Speaker 3: getting along, not to the extent I didn't know, but
14:39
Speaker 3: I brought it up to her and she shut me down.
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Speaker 5: I personally felt like she looked a little different, like
14:44
Speaker 5: I felt there was something kind of quite not right.
14:49
Speaker 7: Ashley has painted not only to herself but to the
14:52
Speaker 7: people around her, this Star Cross Lovers narrative for years now,
14:56
Speaker 7: for six years, and so there's gonna have been this
14:59
Speaker 7: pressure that she's link to continue to portray how happy
15:02
Speaker 7: she is now that it's finally come to be. Whether
15:05
Speaker 7: that was a conscious thing or subconscious, we don't know.
15:09
Speaker 7: In reality, Ashley is having a very problematic relationship with Seppel.
15:14
Speaker 3: Almost immediately, she was trying, obviously to protect a relationship,
15:18
Speaker 3: protect him, yeah, because I don't think she wanted me
15:22
Speaker 3: or her father to know fully, because then we would
15:25
Speaker 3: have been a read.
15:39
Speaker 2: Ashley called me right away.
15:42
Speaker 6: He took a bunch of pills of his like prescribed medication,
15:47
Speaker 6: and he took the whole bottle, and then like she
15:49
Speaker 6: was freaking out. And then that's when she called the
15:52
Speaker 6: police or like the ambulance and they came and got him.
15:58
Speaker 2: She had called me from the house. She was crying.
16:02
Speaker 2: She was really upset.
16:04
Speaker 6: They put him like a sleep or something for a
16:06
Speaker 6: few days or something, and she was just like really
16:08
Speaker 6: worried about him, and it's like well being.
16:26
Speaker 3: So I was like, well, do you want to come home?
16:29
Speaker 3: She's like, oh no, I love it. I'm going to
16:30
Speaker 3: get him through this. So then Ashley, being who she
16:33
Speaker 3: was and wanting to help him, she was lured back
16:36
Speaker 3: in and to stay and help him get better.
16:40
Speaker 6: He had came home though, and he was like very different,
16:44
Speaker 6: Like he didn't have as much emotion, Like he wasn't
16:46
Speaker 6: excited anymore.
16:48
Speaker 2: He wasn't like super happy anymore. He was just really
16:53
Speaker 2: really down.
16:57
Speaker 6: I just thought that was really like a lot for
16:59
Speaker 6: her to have on her plate, to take care of
17:03
Speaker 6: someone when she's only nineteen.
17:05
Speaker 3: In January, I started to hear from her less. I
17:07
Speaker 3: think when things were sorrying to go south for her,
17:10
Speaker 3: she reached out to the church because she loves the
17:13
Speaker 3: Mormon religion, but I really think she was looking for
17:16
Speaker 3: an outlet of support while she was there.
17:40
Speaker 10: We met her in a park and we just talked
17:43
Speaker 10: more about church, and we invited her to come back
17:45
Speaker 10: with us because it had been a while since she
17:47
Speaker 10: had come. She was excited to find me back and
17:50
Speaker 10: feel the same feelings that she felt when she was
17:52
Speaker 10: in Canada.
17:53
Speaker 4: She just loved it. She loved church.
17:55
Speaker 10: We had asked her if she could start coming with
17:57
Speaker 10: us every single week and she said that she would
17:59
Speaker 10: have to check with again, but that she was hoping
18:01
Speaker 10: that she could start coming as another nineteen year old girl.
18:04
Speaker 10: I was like, that is a red flag. I didn't
18:06
Speaker 10: really think much about it, but I knew that I
18:09
Speaker 10: personally would not want my boyfriend to be controlling of
18:11
Speaker 10: me and my whereabouts.
18:14
Speaker 7: It just highlights this picture of a very controlling young
18:17
Speaker 7: man and Ashley who's traveled all the way to the
18:20
Speaker 7: UK and only how six months, is not being able
18:24
Speaker 7: to really experience what the UK has to offer.
18:28
Speaker 6: After that incident, he like started to say like I
18:33
Speaker 6: don't really want you to be on TikTok all day,
18:35
Speaker 6: or like I don't want you to be on Snapchat
18:37
Speaker 6: all day.
18:39
Speaker 2: So like she deleted her TikTok.
18:43
Speaker 5: We had been texting and she had said, be careful
18:46
Speaker 5: what you say. You know he's watching what we're saying.
18:51
Speaker 5: Almost right after she had sent it and I had
18:54
Speaker 5: seen it, she had deleted the message so that he
18:57
Speaker 5: could no longer see.
18:58
Speaker 4: It on her screen.
19:01
Speaker 3: I'm sure he was manipulating her every which way to
19:04
Speaker 3: make her feel like, uh, you need me, you can't leave,
19:07
Speaker 3: you won't get any one. He did a very good job.
19:11
Speaker 3: I did notice. She seemed solemn, sad, quieter, looking a
19:15
Speaker 3: little paler. She was unfortunately learning that this man is
19:20
Speaker 3: not your prince charming and never will be.
19:29
Speaker 6: She called me and she was like screaming and crying
19:33
Speaker 6: and she was like, Jack just threw a glass at
19:35
Speaker 6: my head. I started crying and I told her, like,
19:39
Speaker 6: you need to come home. But she just like really
19:41
Speaker 6: loved him and like really believed in him and thought
19:44
Speaker 6: sh that he could change. But I was like, just
19:47
Speaker 6: I just kept telling her, like, you need to come home.
20:01
Speaker 6: We were on FaceTime and Jack had started throwing objects
20:04
Speaker 6: at her head, throwing candles and like remotes, and he
20:10
Speaker 6: was like screaming through his teeth and he was like
20:13
Speaker 6: spitting and like throwing stuff. I'd try to tell her,
20:17
Speaker 6: I'm like, you're worth more than that, and like everyone
20:19
Speaker 6: here at home like loves you and like misses you,
20:23
Speaker 6: and it's not all about him.
20:25
Speaker 7: Ashley's family were obviously hugely concerned by this situation that
20:29
Speaker 7: Haley had witnessed, but what they didn't know at this
20:31
Speaker 7: time was the extent to which this violence was becoming
20:34
Speaker 7: a regular occurrence for Ashley, and that's something we often
20:37
Speaker 7: see in domestic violence. It could be that friends or
20:40
Speaker 7: family had become aware of a one off situation, but
20:44
Speaker 7: that's downplayed as this one out of control moment. But
20:48
Speaker 7: actually what people often aren't aware of until much later
20:51
Speaker 7: is that this has been developing into a pattern of abuse.
20:58
Speaker 6: It was like nighttime here, like twelve at night my time. Yeah,
21:02
Speaker 6: and then we were like facetiming. We were just like talking,
21:04
Speaker 6: and then all of a sudden, he just like literally
21:07
Speaker 6: started like running at her, and he like pushed her
21:10
Speaker 6: down and started punching her in the head. And then
21:13
Speaker 6: she dropped the phone and I could see her getting
21:18
Speaker 6: punched in the head, and I said, I'm hanging up.
21:20
Speaker 2: I said, I'm calling to get help.
21:22
Speaker 3: Haley called me and told me everything. He just beat
21:24
Speaker 3: her up in front of me, Like I can't. I said, okay,
21:27
Speaker 3: so let's I called her and I said, we're gonna
21:29
Speaker 3: bok you a flight, Okay, you're coming home. And I
21:32
Speaker 3: looked and he was there too, and I said, that's enough.
21:34
Speaker 3: I'm not lit. I'm I'm done. So I don't know
21:37
Speaker 3: what's going on and but this is over and you're
21:40
Speaker 3: coming home.
21:43
Speaker 6: Then we all agreed and she got a flight. I
21:45
Speaker 6: think it was for like three days after, but we
21:49
Speaker 6: had to do it that way because they had a
21:50
Speaker 6: COVID test, so we had to wait because she had
21:53
Speaker 6: to get this stupid freaking COVID test, so she couldn't
21:56
Speaker 6: just get on the plane and go.
21:57
Speaker 3: And she said, Jack, can you show me where this
21:59
Speaker 3: place is to go get my COVID test? He said, yeah,
22:02
Speaker 3: for sure. I said, okay, I thought, perfect, he knows.
22:05
Speaker 3: We know now if I don't hear from you, if
22:08
Speaker 3: you don't answer, I'm calling the police. So he had
22:11
Speaker 3: heard that and they both agreed. It was like two
22:21
Speaker 3: in the morning, I think our time, and so I said, okay,
22:25
Speaker 3: I'm going to catch a couple hours sleep because I
22:27
Speaker 3: haven't hadn't slept yet. I said, we'll call you in
22:30
Speaker 3: a couple hours.
22:33
Speaker 6: And then I went to sleep. And like the last
22:37
Speaker 6: time I got a phone call was like at three
22:40
Speaker 6: thirty am, and it was like Ashley calling for help,
22:44
Speaker 6: but I was sleeping.
23:23
Speaker 5: I had woken up about eight am and I had
23:26
Speaker 5: my phone on do not disturb, but I had seen
23:39
Speaker 5: I had a message from three thirty am saying, Hey,
23:44
Speaker 5: it's actually helped. You know, I need you to contact
23:47
Speaker 5: these sister missionaries in the UK. Tell them to contact me.
23:51
Speaker 5: They'll know how to help me, Like they know, Like
23:55
Speaker 5: what's going on.
24:00
Speaker 10: The first of February. It was a Tuesday, so I
24:04
Speaker 10: was driving and we had our data off. We had
24:06
Speaker 10: gone home a few hours later and we had connected
24:08
Speaker 10: back to our WiFi. We had saw that there was
24:11
Speaker 10: a bunch of texts from a Facebook account that neither
24:14
Speaker 10: of us were friends with. It was a picture of
24:16
Speaker 10: Jack and Ashley as a profile picture, but it had
24:19
Speaker 10: a name of Jack, and so we're like, this is
24:21
Speaker 10: super weird.
24:22
Speaker 2: What is this?
24:22
Speaker 10: But all the messages said like, hey, it's Ashley. I
24:25
Speaker 10: need your help. It's an emergency. Like get in contact
24:27
Speaker 10: with me please, Like get in contact, it's an emergency.
24:30
Speaker 2: This is my address. Can pick me up please, I'm
24:32
Speaker 2: in danger.
24:43
Speaker 10: We weren't really sure what to do, so we tried
24:44
Speaker 10: calling the account and nothing happened.
24:49
Speaker 4: We got a text back and it was like I'm fine,
24:51
Speaker 4: everything's good.
24:52
Speaker 10: I just needed a COVID test. We're like, this is
24:55
Speaker 10: super weird. That cannot be What is happening.
25:06
Speaker 8: Haley woke up.
25:07
Speaker 6: I got a message from Tiana in the morning saying
25:10
Speaker 6: that Ashley had messaged her, and then I started like
25:14
Speaker 6: spam calling Jack's phone.
25:16
Speaker 3: She called him a bunch of times and he wasn't answering.
25:19
Speaker 2: So called.
25:20
Speaker 3: We got a hold of one of her Mormon friends
25:23
Speaker 3: and there in England to go to the house.
25:27
Speaker 4: We head over to Ashley's house and we're there and
25:30
Speaker 4: we're knocking on the door. We're calling the accounts or
25:32
Speaker 4: telling her like come outside, we're here. We didn't get
25:36
Speaker 4: any answer.
25:37
Speaker 3: She's like, I can hear them in there. I can
25:38
Speaker 3: hear something in there, and I'm like, but they're not answering.
25:40
Speaker 3: I'm like, hey call nine and nine. Kind of a
25:44
Speaker 3: blur that whole morning. I think it was like an
25:46
Speaker 3: hour or forty five minutes. It seemed like a long
25:49
Speaker 3: time waiting and waiting to hear something. And then Haley
25:57
Speaker 3: talked to the neighbor.
26:00
Speaker 6: I said, what happened to Ashley? And she said, Ashley
26:03
Speaker 6: has been stabbed to death. And I said what. I
26:09
Speaker 6: was like, I didn't know what to do. I just
26:13
Speaker 6: kind of dropped to the ground and I kind of
26:15
Speaker 6: started crying, and like I was really upset. I called
26:18
Speaker 6: my mom and then like I couldn't talk because I
26:22
Speaker 6: was like screaming.
26:23
Speaker 3: The police called and asked me to give an identificate,
26:26
Speaker 3: like what she looked like, and I said just blue eyes,
26:30
Speaker 3: fair skin, and long brown hair. And I said her
26:33
Speaker 3: passports in there, so she has IDs. And she said,
26:37
Speaker 3: I think we have your daughter. I think we found
26:39
Speaker 3: a body. I'm sorry, but it's your daughter. I didn't
26:54
Speaker 3: believe it because I couldn't see her, so it was
26:59
Speaker 3: a really hard for me to I kept thinking this,
27:02
Speaker 3: she was gonna call.
27:03
Speaker 8: But she never.
27:22
Speaker 3: Next couple of days, they're just kind of a blur
27:26
Speaker 3: and then I said I can't travel, so her dad
27:30
Speaker 3: said I'll go. So they had it to England because
27:32
Speaker 3: I had to get her body home and I needed
27:35
Speaker 3: to see her to know it's her. So I was
27:39
Speaker 3: playing a funeral while he was dealing with that over there.
27:42
Speaker 3: But it took like three weeks to.
27:44
Speaker 1: Get her home.
27:46
Speaker 6: Like I didn't feel like it was real until like
27:49
Speaker 6: I seen her body and then that's like kind of
27:52
Speaker 6: like when it hit me and I was like holy shit,
27:56
Speaker 6: like cause you started crying.
28:01
Speaker 2: I knew it was her.
28:01
Speaker 8: She looked a little different.
28:04
Speaker 2: It was her.
28:06
Speaker 3: Looking back, I think I always had a gut feeling
28:09
Speaker 3: and I should have listened as a mom.
28:14
Speaker 5: I mean, to this day, it still doesn't feel real. Yeah,
28:18
Speaker 5: I definitely. I don't know.
28:24
Speaker 2: I'm not the same anymore.
28:30
Speaker 8: Sorry, m.
28:53
Speaker 3: I got into her snapchat and that's why I think
28:57
Speaker 3: he didn't delete. I found the bruises that he had
29:00
Speaker 3: filmed when she recorded those bruises he gave her secretly
29:12
Speaker 3: in her private diary and snapchat. That was December twenty eighth,
29:18
Speaker 3: so that's the first time he had beaten her up.
29:22
Speaker 3: His physical violence to Ashley I know now, and none
29:26
Speaker 3: of us knew, not even Haley, that it started December
29:29
Speaker 3: after Christmas. That's when he ended up in the hospital.
29:35
Speaker 3: I think she was obviously documenting it for just in case,
29:40
Speaker 3: but we didn't know that until after she had passed.
30:04
Speaker 9: I'm Simon Spence, I'm a King's Council and I was
30:07
Speaker 9: instructed by the Crame Prosecution Service East of England to
30:11
Speaker 9: prosecute Jack Seppel. I think this is one of the
30:15
Speaker 9: worst murder cases I've dealt with. Not only did he
30:18
Speaker 9: stab Ashly numerous times, he also strangled her.
30:26
Speaker 3: At first I heard stab wound to the chest was
30:29
Speaker 3: on the autopsy of how she died. So I'm thinking
30:32
Speaker 3: one or two, and then I'm hearing fifty, and then
30:39
Speaker 3: I'm hearing ninety stab wounds, and then I'm hearing it's
30:45
Speaker 3: probably close to one hundred, but stop counting after ninety.
30:48
Speaker 3: So you can imagine I just, yeah, it was.
30:55
Speaker 8: It's a lot to take.
30:56
Speaker 9: In the strangulation, Mark suggests did either the use of
31:01
Speaker 9: what's called a soft ligature, so something like a scarf,
31:04
Speaker 9: but not something as substantial as a rope or manual strangulation.
31:10
Speaker 7: We know in instances of intimate partner violence that ends
31:14
Speaker 7: in murder that there's often this trigger point, and in
31:17
Speaker 7: this case, the trigger point was Ashley saying.
31:20
Speaker 2: She was leaving.
31:21
Speaker 7: We have all the other steps in place, everything from
31:24
Speaker 7: her becoming more distance to her family, to him increasing
31:27
Speaker 7: his control, to a history of violence towards her, and
31:31
Speaker 7: this trigger point is the next step. And this is
31:34
Speaker 7: essentially Sepel trying to cling onto his control because the
31:38
Speaker 7: only way that he can control Ashley if she's trying
31:41
Speaker 7: to leave, is to stop her from doing so.
31:54
Speaker 6: He was a totally completely different guy, Like we had
31:58
Speaker 6: no idea who he really are until the court had happened,
32:03
Speaker 6: and then we had found out like that he was
32:05
Speaker 6: like a stalker and he was like a totally different dude.
32:10
Speaker 7: Prior to meeting Ashley, Seppel had formed another online relationship
32:14
Speaker 7: with another young girl in South Wales, and this had
32:17
Speaker 7: also been a really problematic relationship.
32:20
Speaker 2: He actually ended.
32:21
Speaker 7: Up resulting in a restraining order against him because he'd
32:24
Speaker 7: taken sexual images of her without her knowing and shared
32:28
Speaker 7: them online. If that happened in the UK today, that
32:32
Speaker 7: would have been a charge for revenge porn, if not
32:35
Speaker 7: for sharing indecent images of a minor because the girl
32:38
Speaker 7: was only fourteen at the time.
32:40
Speaker 9: Jack Seppel had convictions for criminal damage for assault, but
32:44
Speaker 9: his mother certainly featured in the evidence. One of his
32:49
Speaker 9: previous convictions, in fact, was a criminal damage arising out
32:53
Speaker 9: of an argument with his mother.
32:55
Speaker 3: Hearing has passed even his violence against his own mother
33:00
Speaker 3: and having a restraint.
33:01
Speaker 9: We had no idea, knowing nothing at all about his
33:05
Speaker 9: background and his previous history, she really was stepping into
33:10
Speaker 9: the lions den if I could put it that way.
33:12
Speaker 7: It's like he was set in his ways from a
33:14
Speaker 7: very early age, and those ways were very problematic. And
33:18
Speaker 7: very violent. From day one.
33:23
Speaker 9: Jack Zeppel and Ashley lived in a small cul sack,
33:26
Speaker 9: so there was evidence from the neighbors not only of
33:28
Speaker 9: the day itself, but of the time that Ashley had
33:32
Speaker 9: arrived in the UK and was living with Jack Zeppel.
33:35
Speaker 9: The neighbor who lived in the house immediately next door.
33:38
Speaker 9: Ashley turned up at her door at about eight o'clock
33:41
Speaker 9: in the morning, clearly very distressed with an injury, saying
33:46
Speaker 9: that not only had Jack Seppel beaten her up, but
33:48
Speaker 9: they'd acquired a kitten and he'd picked this kitten up
33:52
Speaker 9: and hit it against the wall. And the neighbor quite
33:55
Speaker 9: bravely went with her back to the house and spoke
33:59
Speaker 9: directly to Acceple and he was apologetic, said that he
34:04
Speaker 9: would behave from now on and was very sorry for
34:06
Speaker 9: what he had done. And with that assurance, and because
34:10
Speaker 9: she had a medical appointment, the neighbor then left. She
34:32
Speaker 9: was carried outside and put on the lawn immediately in
34:34
Speaker 9: front of the house, and that's where she was pronounced dead.
34:39
Speaker 9: The police recovered his phone when they searched the house,
34:42
Speaker 9: and they found on it the video clips of him
34:46
Speaker 9: talking to camera with Ashley's body next to him.
34:53
Speaker 6: Yeah, he took a video message of himself with my
34:55
Speaker 6: sister's body and was asking me to forgive him and
35:00
Speaker 6: saying he LEA killed your sister and stuff like that
35:04
Speaker 6: her and then like, I don't know. I just thought
35:09
Speaker 6: like what the fuck. I'm sorry, I'm swearing, but it's
35:12
Speaker 6: just like I couldn't believe that. I was like, why
35:16
Speaker 6: would you ever want to contact me? Like I never
35:18
Speaker 6: want to talk to you ever.
35:25
Speaker 7: After the attack, Jack claims that he lost control. He
35:27
Speaker 7: says to the police that it was a mental health
35:30
Speaker 7: moment that he went quote psychotic and he lashed out.
35:35
Speaker 9: Now, psychotic has a very specific meaning when somebody suffering
35:39
Speaker 9: from psychosis can avail themselves of deminished responsibility as a
35:44
Speaker 9: partial defense.
35:45
Speaker 7: He's trying to gain sympathy and mitigate what he's done
35:48
Speaker 7: by claiming mental health and loss of control.
35:51
Speaker 9: And it seemed to me from the word go that
35:53
Speaker 9: the only possible defense he might have was a psychiatric defense,
35:57
Speaker 9: and if he had a successful psychiatric defense, he might
36:01
Speaker 9: have been convicted of manslaughter rather than murder.
36:20
Speaker 3: I wanted to come to England to ensure that that
36:23
Speaker 3: we had justiced and I did it for Ashley we
36:27
Speaker 3: went to the court and we met with her attorney
36:30
Speaker 3: like separately before, and then we went in and I
36:34
Speaker 3: that's the first time I seen him in person, and
36:40
Speaker 3: I stared at him a little and he just kept
36:42
Speaker 3: staring sorry at me.
36:44
Speaker 8: It was hard to see him.
37:05
Speaker 9: When you prosecute a miner case and the defense, you
37:08
Speaker 9: know they've got a psychiatric report, but they don't serve it.
37:11
Speaker 9: That speaks volumes. It tells you that first of all,
37:14
Speaker 9: the psychiatrist doesn't believe as a defensive dominist responsibility. But also,
37:19
Speaker 9: quite often a psychiatrist, particularly in a case of domestic violence,
37:22
Speaker 9: will make some quite damaging comments about the nature of
37:26
Speaker 9: the defendant himself and about his coercive and controlling behavior.
37:30
Speaker 9: And clearly, if you're defending a case of this type,
37:33
Speaker 9: that's not something you're going to want the prosecution to know.
37:44
Speaker 9: The sentencing judge was mister Justice Murray. He described Jack
37:48
Speaker 9: Zeppel as a dangerous individual and imposed a minimum term
37:53
Speaker 9: to serve of twenty three and a half years.
37:57
Speaker 3: I was glad that there was no big trial. I
37:59
Speaker 3: was black that he did get life. I mean, I'll
38:02
Speaker 3: be sixty seven by the time he's out, and I
38:05
Speaker 3: don't live there, thank god.
38:07
Speaker 9: The degree of injury, the strangulation coupled with stabbing, and
38:11
Speaker 9: the huge number of stab wounds that he inflicted, plus
38:15
Speaker 9: of course his history, all led to the judge saying
38:18
Speaker 9: he was a highly dangerous individual person. I think it's
38:21
Speaker 9: highly unlikely that the prole board will consider him eligible
38:25
Speaker 9: for parole until many years after he serves his minimum term.
38:31
Speaker 3: I still don't know everything, but in learning that there
38:35
Speaker 3: was multiple girls that he was infatuated with, that he
38:38
Speaker 3: is stalking, behavior, violent episodes, his mental health, like all
38:43
Speaker 3: of this I'm still learning.
38:48
Speaker 5: It definitely makes you think twice about everything and rethink everything.
38:53
Speaker 5: He might have said, I'm gonequila with murderer, you you know,
39:01
Speaker 5: like was this his whole plan all along? Like who
39:03
Speaker 5: knows this is? That's not normal to do that. It's
39:07
Speaker 5: not normal to take somebody's life for whatever reason.
39:18
Speaker 6: The police had called me and like we're saying that
39:20
Speaker 6: he was trying to contact me from prison and he
39:23
Speaker 6: was trying to get like phone me and stuff and
39:25
Speaker 6: like get a legal phone.
39:27
Speaker 2: In there to call me. I probably wouldn't say anything.
39:33
Speaker 6: I'd ask what Ashley said her last moments, and then
39:37
Speaker 6: I would tell him call the police.
39:39
Speaker 2: That's it.
39:40
Speaker 6: That's all I want to know is her last moments,
39:42
Speaker 6: and then I would probably call the police so that
39:44
Speaker 6: he could stay in jail longer.
39:51
Speaker 7: Sepel writes this letter of apology to Ashley's family, but
39:55
Speaker 7: I really don't buy it as a sincere remorseful apology
39:59
Speaker 7: because whilst he's saying the words of sorry, he's simultaneously
40:04
Speaker 7: trying to mitigate himself. I don't believe that this is
40:08
Speaker 7: a truly remorseful apology, and I think really he's trying
40:13
Speaker 7: to again receive sympathy from the people who are least
40:17
Speaker 7: likely to give him sympathy.
40:18
Speaker 2: In the world.
40:20
Speaker 6: You should forgive people and stuff, but I'll just like
40:23
Speaker 6: never forgive him. I think that's actual like bullshit, and
40:27
Speaker 6: like he didn't say anything to us.
40:31
Speaker 3: I do have anger, and so I'm at that stage
40:34
Speaker 3: now where I just don't understand why how someone can
40:40
Speaker 3: do this to someone's so innocent, just because he didn't
40:45
Speaker 3: want to leave. So I should have done research. And
40:49
Speaker 3: that's my message to anyone who has a loved one traveling,
40:53
Speaker 3: because love is blind, so they won't always do the
40:57
Speaker 3: resk like want to ask a hard question, Please intervene,
41:02
Speaker 3: don't don't try to be nice and try to just
41:06
Speaker 3: I should have just called the police to go get
41:07
Speaker 3: her out of there right then and there.
41:09
Speaker 2: So that's on me.
41:12
Speaker 9: She was completely oblivious to the true Jack Seppel, and
41:16
Speaker 9: for me, that is where the real tragedy of this
41:18
Speaker 9: case lies. That she wasn't in a position to make
41:21
Speaker 9: an informed choice about whether she stayed with him or
41:25
Speaker 9: not until it was too late.
41:33
Speaker 10: Her sister had sent us the link to her funeral,
41:37
Speaker 10: but I just remember like feeling the spirit so strong
41:39
Speaker 10: that Ashley was with them, she was with us, because
41:42
Speaker 10: her spirit, you know, it can be so many different places.
41:45
Speaker 4: And we watched it at our chapel, just on the computer.
41:50
Speaker 3: It was still COVID. It was supposed to be like
41:53
Speaker 3: no one, just immediate family. But then three days before
41:56
Speaker 3: her service, they lifted half the COVID restrictions so we
41:59
Speaker 3: were allowed up to you one hundred people, but it
42:02
Speaker 3: was a full house. I don't remember much of it.
42:06
Speaker 3: I do have it on video, but I haven't watched.
42:11
Speaker 3: I thank God from my religion, and I thank God
42:13
Speaker 3: that every day that I'm going to see her again
42:16
Speaker 3: and may not be obviously in this life but I
42:20
Speaker 3: know I'll see your guy. I know her spirits here
42:23
Speaker 3: and I know she's guiding us. I feel her strength.
42:27
Speaker 2: In our faith.
42:28
Speaker 5: We believe that, you know, we will see our loved
42:31
Speaker 5: ones again, and it's definitely comforting to know.
42:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's right up the road. So I'm right near
42:41
Speaker 3: the cemetery. Our local cemetery and our stone were together,
42:45
Speaker 3: so we'll be buried together. So I go up there
42:50
Speaker 3: almost every day just say I but it's just I said,
42:55
Speaker 3: to know she's there and that I'll be with her
42:58
Speaker 3: one day.
43:00
Speaker 6: Think of her with like her and her friends. They'd
43:05
Speaker 6: come running in my house and they'd be all excited.
43:08
Speaker 6: They were always doing We're always doing adventures. She was
43:11
Speaker 6: just like the adventuress, like happy, funny, laughter, dancing. Like
43:17
Speaker 6: when you think of her, you think of all.
43:19
Speaker 2: That she really was, like all that. She was pretty awesome.