Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Guest Host: Dr. Leslie Ellis interviews Dr. Ailey Jolie

Transcript

Guest Host: Dr. Leslie Ellis interviews Dr. Ailey Jolie · The Trauma Therapist

0:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to the special guest host series of The Trauma
0:06
Speaker 1: Therapist podcast, where I'm going to be handing over the
0:09
Speaker 1: mic to some incredible guest hosts. In each episode, you'll
0:13
Speaker 1: hear fresh perspectives and unique insights to inform and inspire
0:17
Speaker 1: you in all the while keeping the heart of this
0:19
Speaker 1: podcast alive. So sit back and enjoy.
0:26
Speaker 2: Hi.
0:26
Speaker 3: I'm doctor Leslie Ellis and I'm here today with Ailee
0:31
Speaker 3: Jolie and this is part of the Trauma Therapist Podcast,
0:35
Speaker 3: the guest hosting series that I was honored to be
0:38
Speaker 3: invited to, So thank you guy for inviting me. And
0:43
Speaker 3: I'm really excited to introduce you to Ailey Jolie, who
0:47
Speaker 3: I've known for almost ten years, first as a student,
0:51
Speaker 3: but now I think you know, this is one of
0:53
Speaker 3: the cases where the student may have surpassed the teacher
0:56
Speaker 3: in terms of her learning and studies and the things
0:59
Speaker 3: she's putting out in the world world. So the overarching
1:02
Speaker 3: theme is embodiment. And I don't think I know a
1:07
Speaker 3: single person who has studied, lived in a body thought
1:12
Speaker 3: about the body ways to help people connect with their bodies,
1:16
Speaker 3: especially when they've been disconnected through trauma. As Ailey, so first,
1:22
Speaker 3: she was first in my Masters of Counseling program at
1:25
Speaker 3: Adler University.
1:26
Speaker 2: That's where I first met her.
1:28
Speaker 3: And then she I think she basically took almost everything
1:32
Speaker 3: I taught, mainly a focusing oriented two year certification program
1:38
Speaker 3: with the Focusing Institute. So she learned about Jenlen's beautiful
1:42
Speaker 3: way of listening inside, and she's also taken And here's
1:47
Speaker 3: the list, and I'm going to have to look at
1:48
Speaker 3: it because there's so many things that she's trained in,
1:50
Speaker 3: I don't remember them all. So somatic experiencing, EMDR, compassion inquiry,
1:56
Speaker 3: internal family systems, sex therapy, Trauma recovery, Master certificate from
2:02
Speaker 3: Harvard Medical School.
2:03
Speaker 2: She can treat eating disorders. She's a yoga teacher, and I.
2:06
Speaker 3: Don't think that even covers everything. But she's also now
2:10
Speaker 3: a chartered psychologist in the UK, where she's currently living
2:13
Speaker 3: and working. And the slogan on her website kind of
2:16
Speaker 3: sums up her main theme that she she really lives by,
2:21
Speaker 3: which is that inside your body is the wisdom needed
2:24
Speaker 3: to live your most awakened and authentic life. And she
2:28
Speaker 3: does help people do that and she's an example of that.
2:31
Speaker 3: And I also wanted to share some of her words
2:34
Speaker 3: from her website, because Ali's a beautiful writer and I
2:38
Speaker 3: think this is best coming from her. She says, I
2:42
Speaker 3: come to the psychotherapy profession with transparency. As a human,
2:47
Speaker 3: I have a colored history of triumph and trauma, performing
2:50
Speaker 3: with the Royal Moscow Vallet, wearing the crown of Miss Canada,
2:54
Speaker 3: modeling overseas, a brief cameo on Sesame Street, where the
2:58
Speaker 3: highlights of the world saw what was hidden during my
3:01
Speaker 3: youth from my experiences of sexual exploitation and violence. My
3:06
Speaker 3: experiences of trauma have informed my academic and educational choices,
3:11
Speaker 3: the areas of expertise I possess as a psychotherapist, or
3:15
Speaker 3: where I've personally alchemized my pain into peace. And I
3:19
Speaker 3: love that last phrase, and I just wanted to know
3:21
Speaker 3: if you could say more about that process of alchemizing
3:25
Speaker 3: your pain into peace.
3:29
Speaker 4: Really beautiful question. It's also I'm just noticing the resonance
3:34
Speaker 4: of what it feels like to have someone else and
3:37
Speaker 4: someone I admire so deeply read those words back to me,
3:41
Speaker 4: and even inside, I think there's a little alchemy happening
3:44
Speaker 4: right now. But when I think of alchemizing all of
3:48
Speaker 4: those experiences, I really just go back to some quintessential
3:53
Speaker 4: moments of my own journey coming home to my body
3:58
Speaker 4: and what that has looked like, and also how foundational
4:02
Speaker 4: my body was in my experiences of both trauma, but
4:06
Speaker 4: in the reconciliation and the alchemy of that. So during
4:12
Speaker 4: my experiences of trauma, I always had movement as a
4:15
Speaker 4: foundational piece kind of.
4:16
Speaker 2: Sprinkled in there.
4:17
Speaker 4: I got to dance with the Royal Moscow Ballet when
4:20
Speaker 4: I was a little kiddo, and so I always had
4:24
Speaker 4: dance and movement as a way of being present in
4:28
Speaker 4: my body, kind of moving through what was placed inside
4:32
Speaker 4: my body in regards to trauma energy and all the
4:35
Speaker 4: sticky ekey stuff and all the emotions I had this outlet.
4:39
Speaker 4: And when I look back on the process of alchemy
4:43
Speaker 4: and moving through trauma, I go back to those moments
4:47
Speaker 4: of doing this thing at a very young age, of
4:50
Speaker 4: learning how to breathe into my body or flex my
4:54
Speaker 4: toes or strength in a leg, or feel this type
4:58
Speaker 4: of tenacity through my muscular system as a way of
5:02
Speaker 4: kind of discharging or integrating or processing the traumatic charge
5:07
Speaker 4: or arousal we would call it.
5:09
Speaker 2: And that was deeply unconscious.
5:11
Speaker 4: And then I because I spent so much time in
5:14
Speaker 4: psychotherapy and various forms, I got really curious and that's
5:19
Speaker 4: why it has led me to explore really all of
5:23
Speaker 4: the modalities that have benefited me and I've gotten something
5:26
Speaker 4: from I wanted to understand how they led me from
5:29
Speaker 4: point A to point B, or some from point A
5:31
Speaker 4: to point F, Like.
5:32
Speaker 2: How did how did I change? What was this?
5:35
Speaker 4: And that really fueled and it continues to fuel the
5:39
Speaker 4: educational choices that I make.
5:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds to me like you reverse engineered your
5:46
Speaker 3: healing process and that you've always had a connection with
5:51
Speaker 3: your body because of you know, the dance. It's so
5:54
Speaker 3: it's such a a fine tuned way of being with
5:59
Speaker 3: your body. But I know as an athlete, I've also
6:02
Speaker 3: done that. But I can say that there is also
6:05
Speaker 3: that connection, but it can also be there can be
6:09
Speaker 3: a way it disconnects you or that you can learn
6:11
Speaker 3: to be tough. And I know that over the time
6:16
Speaker 3: that I've known you, even I can feel that there's
6:18
Speaker 3: been a shift in this deepening of embodiment and also
6:23
Speaker 3: of learning how to help others as well. And so
6:28
Speaker 3: I'm wondering if you can speak to a little bit
6:30
Speaker 3: to the modalities. I know there are many, but the
6:32
Speaker 3: ones that have really helped you in that process, and
6:35
Speaker 3: how you would articulate that.
6:40
Speaker 4: I'm judging my answer in my mind right now because
6:46
Speaker 4: it's not the modality, but I would necessarily reference point
6:53
Speaker 4: or would one would think would have been the most profound.
6:57
Speaker 4: But being in long term young mean psychoanalysis has been
7:02
Speaker 4: the probably most embodied practice I've been in. Even though
7:06
Speaker 4: I don't think either of my analysts were like deeply
7:10
Speaker 4: embodied people per se, there was something about how they
7:14
Speaker 4: held the space that allowed me to soften and the
7:17
Speaker 4: parts of me that were holding on to the trauma
7:20
Speaker 4: to finally meet connection with another person. And in my
7:23
Speaker 4: like list of CV, you know, I've spent the months
7:27
Speaker 4: in meditation practice, I've done the ayahuasca, I've done all
7:31
Speaker 4: the psychedolgis to psychotherapy, and I'm like, being in long
7:37
Speaker 4: term five times a week young in analysis was like
7:40
Speaker 4: what allowed my armor to finally go Yeah, and just
7:46
Speaker 4: I can just be here now I don't need to
7:49
Speaker 4: do any of this other stuff.
7:51
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's not about a specific I do like this.
7:56
Speaker 3: Actually, it's not about specific getting into the body or
7:59
Speaker 3: feeling into the you know, you know, specific sensations necessarily,
8:04
Speaker 3: but about that deeply human experience of feeling supported and
8:10
Speaker 3: safe and loved. Actually, I know, I think when you're
8:14
Speaker 3: in such intensive therapy, it's like a reparenting or a
8:20
Speaker 3: recalibrating of our sense of safety in the world. So
8:23
Speaker 3: I can I can see how that would be transformative.
8:28
Speaker 3: And so there's there's that, and what other other things
8:33
Speaker 3: you know, like it's obviously that was the deepest healing
8:38
Speaker 3: for you, And what other kinds of things in your
8:42
Speaker 3: beautiful list of expertise is something you highlight?
8:46
Speaker 4: Another one that always comes to mind is right at
8:49
Speaker 4: the start, and this is when I was leaving in
8:51
Speaker 4: domestically violent relationship. I would have been about eighteen, and
8:55
Speaker 4: I was in therapy and my therapist, very unconventionally, was
9:00
Speaker 4: decided today that we were not going to talk. And
9:03
Speaker 4: she put me into this little room and she put
9:05
Speaker 4: on this film run Domestic Violence and Sexual Violence, and
9:09
Speaker 4: she just made me watch it like it was like a.
9:11
Speaker 2: Twenty five minute film.
9:12
Speaker 4: And she took me out of the room and she
9:14
Speaker 4: was like, I sat you down with that because I
9:17
Speaker 4: wanted you to hear what I hear when you speak
9:19
Speaker 4: to me, and that was such a shattering moment because
9:24
Speaker 4: it was this deep type of psycho education where I
9:27
Speaker 4: was confronted with these like really large feminist intersectional systems
9:33
Speaker 4: and my own story in a way that I could actually.
9:37
Speaker 2: Take it in.
9:38
Speaker 4: Because we had a long term relationship, we had been
9:40
Speaker 4: working on things less, so she was really trying to
9:44
Speaker 4: support me in domestically violent relationship and I was very
9:47
Speaker 4: much like, no, everything's fine. But then sitting in that
9:50
Speaker 4: room alone watching this like you know, psycho education movie
9:54
Speaker 4: from the nineteen sixties, probably was that moment, and that
9:58
Speaker 4: one always stands out to me too.
10:00
Speaker 2: It's so.
10:01
Speaker 4: Wildly unconventional but was so deeply feminist and exactly what
10:06
Speaker 4: I needed.
10:07
Speaker 3: So she had a really strong, correct intuition about what
10:11
Speaker 3: you needed to really jolt you into realizing that the
10:16
Speaker 3: you know, the terror of what you were in and
10:19
Speaker 3: I know that you also, as part of your work
10:22
Speaker 3: work with sexual violence, victims of sexual violence and some
10:25
Speaker 3: of the most challenging kinds of cases, and so part
10:29
Speaker 3: of it obviously comes from having experienced it yourself and
10:33
Speaker 3: knowing the terrain. But I wonder what that's like for
10:36
Speaker 3: you and what kinds of things you have found to
10:40
Speaker 3: be most helpful with this very challenged you know scenario
10:46
Speaker 3: that you're confronted with in therapy work.
10:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, this the antidote or the remedy that my system
10:55
Speaker 4: needs in working so heavily in sexual violence is having
11:01
Speaker 4: practices of pleasure or presence or peace or ease. And
11:05
Speaker 4: so now that is a practice that I have in
11:08
Speaker 4: my work. I have two practices when I see someone
11:10
Speaker 4: who day every day and I see so many sexual violences,
11:15
Speaker 4: One is having some type of practice or play, like
11:17
Speaker 4: I need to go play in whatever way that works
11:20
Speaker 4: for me. And another one, because I mostly work with
11:22
Speaker 4: those who are identifying, is I need to connect to
11:25
Speaker 4: a masculine figure, and those two things they do keep
11:31
Speaker 4: me refreshed and available and my system open to work
11:36
Speaker 4: with the population that can be very tiresome and very
11:39
Speaker 4: crueling on someone's not only their psyche, but their body
11:43
Speaker 4: as well.
11:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
11:45
Speaker 3: I know we know about the you know how our
11:47
Speaker 3: nervous systems mirror each other's. And so even though you're
11:51
Speaker 3: upholding some of this, you know, embodiment and groundedness and joy,
11:57
Speaker 3: it's still I know it personally as well. It can
12:00
Speaker 3: take a toll on your body, and so it sounds
12:03
Speaker 3: like you do have many forms of self care. And
12:06
Speaker 3: you also mentioned to me earlier about learning about sex
12:11
Speaker 3: therapy as a certificate and sex therapy and how incredibly
12:16
Speaker 3: surprisingly helpful and joyful those practices are to just really
12:20
Speaker 3: reconnect with pleasure and for people who have not experienced
12:25
Speaker 3: their bodies as a fun place to be that this is.
12:28
Speaker 2: A really helpful avenue as well.
12:31
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I don't think I would have ever trained as
12:34
Speaker 4: a sex therapist. It wasn't on my radar, It wasn't
12:38
Speaker 4: my general inclination as a therapist. But after spending time
12:42
Speaker 4: doing that such program at Harvard, I became very curious
12:47
Speaker 4: about what is my skill set as a therapist and
12:51
Speaker 4: as a human to experience pleasure? What are the steps here?
12:55
Speaker 4: What is the protocol? How do we bring this in
12:58
Speaker 4: maybe therapy? Does it need to be so challenging or
13:02
Speaker 4: hard all the time. Maybe it can be really playful.
13:05
Speaker 4: Maybe my personality can really be in the room. Where
13:09
Speaker 4: are those glimmers for my clients? And getting trained as
13:13
Speaker 4: a sex therapist and the two supervisors I had really
13:17
Speaker 4: brought that into my practice by really bringing that out
13:22
Speaker 4: in me, and how they showed up as supervisors because
13:24
Speaker 4: they really embodied like this like playful energy all the time.
13:28
Speaker 4: Even when we were in the depths of painful stuff,
13:31
Speaker 4: they still had this effervescenence that I really appreciated.
13:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do love that paradigm shift in working with
13:42
Speaker 3: you know, I guess anybody who comes with therapy comes
13:44
Speaker 3: with some degree of pain or something they want to
13:46
Speaker 3: work through. But there's this focus sometimes on the problem,
13:51
Speaker 3: you know, exclusively on do I have to relive this?
13:54
Speaker 3: Do I need to metabolize it? And yes, I think
13:57
Speaker 3: it's important for some people to tell the story and
14:03
Speaker 3: to actually you know, feel some of the frozen places
14:06
Speaker 3: and like bring them some life and light.
14:09
Speaker 2: But that isn't everything.
14:12
Speaker 3: If it's all just you know, sitting in the soup
14:15
Speaker 3: of the worst of it, I agree with you. It
14:18
Speaker 3: doesn't feel good, probably as a therapist, but probably also as.
14:23
Speaker 2: The client or patient, because.
14:27
Speaker 3: I notice people think they need to come and talk
14:30
Speaker 3: about all the troubles. But what you're talking about is
14:33
Speaker 3: the word used as repatterning. So it's having experiences of
14:38
Speaker 3: joy and pleasure and fun and playfulness as part of
14:41
Speaker 3: the work and taking that into your life.
14:44
Speaker 2: And so I'm wondering how you get there? You know,
14:49
Speaker 2: just some ideas I know there.
14:51
Speaker 3: It can be different for every person, But what are
14:53
Speaker 3: some of the main ways that you find to help
14:56
Speaker 3: people go from a traumatized place to a place where
14:59
Speaker 3: they're body can experience joy and a life.
15:04
Speaker 4: I really love this question because it's the one that
15:07
Speaker 4: I am constantly asking myself whenever I sit across from
15:11
Speaker 4: someone who is in a more traumatized place in their
15:15
Speaker 4: body or in their life, of what is the glimmer
15:18
Speaker 4: of connection or a new pattern or a new possibility
15:23
Speaker 4: that I can present as their psychotherapist or just as
15:26
Speaker 4: a human across the room for them right now? And
15:29
Speaker 4: so I do this in lots of fun little ways.
15:32
Speaker 4: I used to have a therapist who wore the quirky shoes,
15:35
Speaker 4: So do little things wear quirky shoes, have funny jewelry.
15:38
Speaker 4: You're like, I have every single different type of texture
15:41
Speaker 4: in my office because I'm like just all the weird
15:44
Speaker 4: patterns for me. It's very intentional, even in how this
15:47
Speaker 4: space is curated environmentally, and then it goes just down
15:52
Speaker 4: into those kind of more intimate moments of where can
15:55
Speaker 4: we just have like a little space of reprieve. Where
15:59
Speaker 4: can we not is that the pattern actually isn't playing
16:02
Speaker 4: out here? Where can we the two of us maybe
16:04
Speaker 4: connect around the sun that's outside today in these little
16:08
Speaker 4: moments and it's just kind of expanding on them in
16:11
Speaker 4: a way that's very similar to what Peter Levine talks
16:14
Speaker 4: about titrading and orienting, that we can oriental pleasure. And
16:18
Speaker 4: I ensure that that is a theme throughout the time
16:21
Speaker 4: that I spend with clients being in small Yeah, that
16:26
Speaker 4: feels good. I mean it should feel good. I think
16:29
Speaker 4: Jenlen said that too as well, that you know that
16:31
Speaker 4: therapy should feel good and you should track the good feelings.
16:36
Speaker 3: So another thing I know about you is that in
16:40
Speaker 3: addition to your therapy work, you also put a lot
16:44
Speaker 3: of information out in the world. And so I just
16:48
Speaker 3: I just have really enjoyed the information you put out there.
16:51
Speaker 3: And I know we'll put your social media contacts below
16:55
Speaker 3: here somewhere so people.
16:56
Speaker 2: Can look you up. And you know, the other thing I've.
16:59
Speaker 3: Known is in the in your writing is there's a
17:04
Speaker 3: strong feminist and political theme that runs through it.
17:09
Speaker 2: And I'm just, you.
17:11
Speaker 3: Know, wondering if you can talk a little bit about
17:13
Speaker 3: that about how you know, the world can sometimes make
17:17
Speaker 3: it difficult to really be fully embodied, and you know,
17:21
Speaker 3: just what you have to say about that.
17:24
Speaker 4: There's so many things that I could say about that.
17:26
Speaker 2: I'm cool.
17:28
Speaker 4: One of the reasons why I am so obsessed and
17:32
Speaker 4: passionate about embodiment is that because I deeply believe that
17:36
Speaker 4: our bodies are not only inherently political, the first side
17:41
Speaker 4: of political change. And if we can move our focus
17:45
Speaker 4: away from the noise that is outside there and actually
17:48
Speaker 4: turn into our internal voice and stay deeply connected and
17:52
Speaker 4: committed to that, that is how we will see systematic
17:56
Speaker 4: change outside in the world. Because when we actually connect
17:59
Speaker 4: to ourselves, we're forced to feel the interconnectedness we have
18:02
Speaker 4: with other people, the ecological crisis that we're in, like
18:05
Speaker 4: it just is a kind of a role it x
18:08
Speaker 4: for me, and so there is a really strong political
18:14
Speaker 4: and cultural lens in how I write because for me,
18:17
Speaker 4: sematics is a deeply social justice inspired perspective and I
18:24
Speaker 4: was really taught to think that way in doing my
18:27
Speaker 4: master's and sematic studies at Pasifica, and taught less to
18:31
Speaker 4: think about it as a practice to release or to
18:36
Speaker 4: shake or to move. That's a part of it. That's
18:38
Speaker 4: sematic awareness. But sematics itself is inherently political and cultural
18:44
Speaker 4: and a critique because our bodies hold social structures inside them.
18:49
Speaker 4: What I do notice in my private practice when I
18:52
Speaker 4: am with clients and I bring this stuff in or
18:54
Speaker 4: sprinkle a little bit of like, hey, that may be
18:56
Speaker 4: why your body feels this way, there's oftentimes this deep
19:00
Speaker 4: type of softening. F Oh yeah, because of that structure,
19:04
Speaker 4: I've been led to believe that I completely control my
19:07
Speaker 4: reality and that's why I'm blaming myself for that thing
19:10
Speaker 4: that happened ten years ago or twenty years ago, And
19:12
Speaker 4: actually I don't. There's systems outside of me that are
19:17
Speaker 4: moving my life in directions, and I'm not responsible for
19:20
Speaker 4: every single thing that happens, but I do have to
19:22
Speaker 4: have there's a line of accountability of I choose what
19:25
Speaker 4: happens next after that horrific thing happened. And so I
19:28
Speaker 4: do find that there's oftentimes this really beautiful somatic softening
19:34
Speaker 4: when we bring in this systemic and how it's woven
19:38
Speaker 4: into all facets of our existence.
19:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, that just takes all the pressure away, doesn't it. Like,
19:46
Speaker 3: is there something that you would say in particular to
19:50
Speaker 3: people who feel like they can't connect with their body,
19:54
Speaker 3: or they feel up against something that feels like the
19:58
Speaker 3: body isn't really welcoming, doesn't feel like home. And how
20:01
Speaker 3: do you begin with someone who's really uncomfortable going in?
20:08
Speaker 4: I would first, very gently and very kindly remind them
20:12
Speaker 4: that if you can't connect to your body, that means
20:15
Speaker 4: all the systems outside of both of us have worked
20:19
Speaker 4: and they have done their job well, and it's not
20:21
Speaker 4: a personal failing in any way. If you can't feel
20:24
Speaker 4: your toads when you wiggle them inside your shoes, or
20:28
Speaker 4: you're unsure of your fullness or hunger cues or thirst cues,
20:31
Speaker 4: if you can't pull those apart, that just means that
20:35
Speaker 4: you've really been led into the cultural and societal narratives
20:40
Speaker 4: that overvalue the mind and all its beautiful techniques and
20:44
Speaker 4: strategies and undervalue the wisdom of the body. So really
20:48
Speaker 4: again depersonalizing it and then starting that beautiful and practice
20:53
Speaker 4: as it kind of meaned earlier, how can we orient
20:57
Speaker 4: to a feel good sensation in the body. Most people
21:00
Speaker 4: can find something that doesn't feel good, like that's that's
21:04
Speaker 4: too hard to find. That's pretty easy but can we
21:07
Speaker 4: actually feel something that feels good and then starting to
21:11
Speaker 4: expand that, Because if we're creating a new relationship with
21:15
Speaker 4: anyone and we go into it and we're like, oh,
21:18
Speaker 4: it feels sticky and sticky and gross and makes me
21:22
Speaker 4: feel anger inside, we're not going to have a lot
21:24
Speaker 4: of incentive to keep showing up to that relationship. But
21:27
Speaker 4: if we are building a new relationship and we acknowledge, oh,
21:30
Speaker 4: I feel a little light, our little bubbly are some joy,
21:33
Speaker 4: we're probably going to have a greater buy in to
21:36
Speaker 4: keep showing up to the relationship.
21:38
Speaker 2: And so that's the second piece. The third piece.
21:41
Speaker 4: Is really honoring as much as you are trying to
21:43
Speaker 4: create a relationship with your body and get to know it,
21:47
Speaker 4: your body is trying to create a relationship with you,
21:50
Speaker 4: and like all relationships, that's going to take trust, it's
21:53
Speaker 4: going to take time, it's going to take before, it's
21:55
Speaker 4: going to take repetition, and then you're gonna have to
21:58
Speaker 4: repeat those steps many, many times. And losing connection to
22:03
Speaker 4: your body after you've created connection is just a part
22:06
Speaker 4: of the process. I will always invite people to get
22:12
Speaker 4: really curious about how their body actually speaks to them.
22:17
Speaker 4: Because there is this conception that it's going to be
22:20
Speaker 4: in sensation or maybe I connect to my body and
22:23
Speaker 4: that's when I feel an emotion moved through me. But
22:26
Speaker 4: I know for myself that I'm actually most deeply embodied
22:32
Speaker 4: when I have really felt, sense oriented dreams. That for
22:39
Speaker 4: me is like a ley. You are doing a very
22:42
Speaker 4: good job during the rest of your waking hours being
22:45
Speaker 4: connected to your body, because you went to sleep tonight
22:48
Speaker 4: and your dreams told you things. They give you little
22:52
Speaker 4: tippets of information. And so I always just really invite
22:56
Speaker 4: people to be curious and to honor the body speaks
22:59
Speaker 4: to all of us very different ways, at very different
23:02
Speaker 4: times in our lives, and to just keep an open
23:05
Speaker 4: mind that your body might not whisper to you. It
23:07
Speaker 4: may dream to you, or it might move, or it
23:10
Speaker 4: might shake, and that's all totally okay.
23:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you chose my favorite avenue. You know that
23:17
Speaker 3: about me, That dreaming is such a beautiful entree into
23:22
Speaker 3: the body. I am a very big fan of that answer,
23:26
Speaker 3: and of you. I am so privileged have had you
23:29
Speaker 3: as a student, and I really I'm grateful for you
23:33
Speaker 3: coming and spending the time speaking with us.
23:36
Speaker 2: And I think you.
23:38
Speaker 3: Know there's only just more great things to come, and
23:40
Speaker 3: look forward to more of your writing and your book
23:43
Speaker 3: and all of the things that you do in the
23:45
Speaker 3: world to make it a better place for our body.
23:48
Speaker 3: So thank you so much, Ailey, thank you so much.
23:51
Speaker 2: For having me.
23:52
Speaker 4: This an absolute delight.
24:10
Speaker 3: May e
24:18
Speaker 1: Common